SyracuseAvGeek wrote:Does anyone know when ANY announcement might happen?
https://twitter.com/MegsNewsFlash/statu ... 48224?s=20
Looks like next week.
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SyracuseAvGeek wrote:Does anyone know when ANY announcement might happen?
WeatherPilot wrote:While we're talking about Syracuse, did anyone else notice that LiveATC.net has stopped providing any feeds of SYR?
SyracuseAvGeek wrote:WeatherPilot wrote:While we're talking about Syracuse, did anyone else notice that LiveATC.net has stopped providing any feeds of SYR?
I've noticed that, why would they stop providing feed for SYR
rocANDtpa wrote:Sounds like UA SYR-DEN to me too based on the tease.
SyracuseAvGeek wrote:If it is not Southwest, I can't see why they would be building it up this much. The only other thing that I can think of that would warrant this much build up is Europe service with Norwegian
SyracuseAvGeek wrote:If it is not Southwest, I can't see why they would be building it up this much. The only other thing that I can think of that would warrant this much build up is Europe service with Norwegian
TucsonDave wrote:Possibly a military charter. Looks like it's headed to ONT.
ROCDLFAN wrote:
It’s not going to be Southwest- SYR and the CNY region is just too close to BUF, ROC, and ALB to exist without consequence to other stations, especially ROC. UA to DEN, AA to DFW or even NK or F9 are significantly more likely.
With all due respect, I think you may be overlooking the North-South expanse of the SYR catchment area, extending from the Twin Tier area surrounding BGM North into the YGK-YOW area. SYR's catchment area isn't limited to just CNY. SYR should have landed SW years ago. Unfortunately it hasn't had the private or public leadership to bring about what should have been a slam dunk.
TucsonDave wrote:Speaking of inconvenience, folks in the SYR catchment area, which extends past Watertown/Fort Drum into SE Ontario, have been inconvenienced far too long. The SYR catchment area can support SW Service, no doubt in my mind. Hopefully, the ROC catchment area can as well, but it isn't nearly as extensive as the SYR catchment area, and I would submit SYR's catchment area has a larger population. In any event, let the ROC area stand on its own merits without having numbers padded by inconvenienced pax from CNY.
DCA-ROCguy wrote:SYR-BNA is an interesting add for Allegiant. As far as I know, no Upstate NY market has supported nonstop service to Nashville except BUF during the AA hub era around late 80's. Hoping it works! Is there some special economic connection between the BNA area and SYR?
Jim
DCA-ROCguy wrote:What I don't get is why JetBlue hasn't grown more aggressively in SYR, due to the absence of Southwest. If Syracuse is as ripe for Southwest as you all say, JetBlue should already be significantly larger there.
This economic analysis shows as of 2016-17 JetBlue CASM of about $0.10.2, and Southwest CASM of $0.10.9. CASM chart is on p. 38.
http://www.oliverwyman.com/content/dam/ ... 17_web.pdf
JetBlue has a lower CASM and a significant network of its own, including coverage of major SYR PDEW markets, especially Florida. You all said above that SYR has 1x BOS, 2x JFK, 1x MCO. Or, only one more net flight than ROC, which has 3xJFK.
Let's say WN entered SYR, and stimulated some growth. Probably not much; we saw above that ROC 2016 was about 2.37 million pax and SYR about 1.98 million. So even stimulating to the level of the ROC market--which SYR hasn't reached with all that Canada-to-PA catchment you all talk about-we'd probably see them enter SYR with 5x daily, and JetBlue would probably shed a daily, maybe MCO to keep up 2x daily to JFK for businesspeople.
A WN SYR schedule would probably parallel ROC--3x BWI, 1x MCO, and 1x somewhere else in Florida, probably either TPA or FLL. Much of the BWI traffic would be connecting, much to places B6 could cover, and does from JFK--Florida and West Coast.
So, if potential for higher LCC traffic at SYR exists, why isn't B6 with its lower CASM already running an SYR schedule like: 3x JFK, 1x MCO, 1x FLL, 1X TPA, 1x BOS, some of those A320's?
Jim
cosyr wrote:DCA-ROCguy wrote:What I don't get is why JetBlue hasn't grown more aggressively in SYR, due to the absence of Southwest. If Syracuse is as ripe for Southwest as you all say, JetBlue should already be significantly larger there.
This economic analysis shows as of 2016-17 JetBlue CASM of about $0.10.2, and Southwest CASM of $0.10.9. CASM chart is on p. 38.
http://www.oliverwyman.com/content/dam/ ... 17_web.pdf
JetBlue has a lower CASM and a significant network of its own, including coverage of major SYR PDEW markets, especially Florida. You all said above that SYR has 1x BOS, 2x JFK, 1x MCO. Or, only one more net flight than ROC, which has 3xJFK.
Let's say WN entered SYR, and stimulated some growth. Probably not much; we saw above that ROC 2016 was about 2.37 million pax and SYR about 1.98 million. So even stimulating to the level of the ROC market--which SYR hasn't reached with all that Canada-to-PA catchment you all talk about-we'd probably see them enter SYR with 5x daily, and JetBlue would probably shed a daily, maybe MCO to keep up 2x daily to JFK for businesspeople.
A WN SYR schedule would probably parallel ROC--3x BWI, 1x MCO, and 1x somewhere else in Florida, probably either TPA or FLL. Much of the BWI traffic would be connecting, much to places B6 could cover, and does from JFK--Florida and West Coast.
So, if potential for higher LCC traffic at SYR exists, why isn't B6 with its lower CASM already running an SYR schedule like: 3x JFK, 1x MCO, 1x FLL, 1X TPA, 1x BOS, some of those A320's?
Jim
B6 has a model that just doesn't work for me here. I love them as an airline, but I often fly to DEN, and the only connection they have to DEN is redeye returns and/or 6-8 hour layovers. They have often run up to 4x SYR-JFK daily, but somehow still didn't have reasonable connection times, and then only one daily JFK-DEN, late night, was a pain. I longed for them to add SYR-BOS, so I could connect to the daytime flight to DEN, and then when they finally added SYR-BOS, it didn't line up with the DEN flight.
You want to know why B6 isn't bigger in SYR? It's things like that. B6 just marches to the beat of their own drum. Plenty of room for WN, and they would hardly complete, because there's no way WN would fly SYR-NYC...at least to begin with.
SyracuseAvGeek wrote:cosyr wrote:DCA-ROCguy wrote:What I don't get is why JetBlue hasn't grown more aggressively in SYR, due to the absence of Southwest. If Syracuse is as ripe for Southwest as you all say, JetBlue should already be significantly larger there.
This economic analysis shows as of 2016-17 JetBlue CASM of about $0.10.2, and Southwest CASM of $0.10.9. CASM chart is on p. 38.
http://www.oliverwyman.com/content/dam/ ... 17_web.pdf
JetBlue has a lower CASM and a significant network of its own, including coverage of major SYR PDEW markets, especially Florida. You all said above that SYR has 1x BOS, 2x JFK, 1x MCO. Or, only one more net flight than ROC, which has 3xJFK.
Let's say WN entered SYR, and stimulated some growth. Probably not much; we saw above that ROC 2016 was about 2.37 million pax and SYR about 1.98 million. So even stimulating to the level of the ROC market--which SYR hasn't reached with all that Canada-to-PA catchment you all talk about-we'd probably see them enter SYR with 5x daily, and JetBlue would probably shed a daily, maybe MCO to keep up 2x daily to JFK for businesspeople.
A WN SYR schedule would probably parallel ROC--3x BWI, 1x MCO, and 1x somewhere else in Florida, probably either TPA or FLL. Much of the BWI traffic would be connecting, much to places B6 could cover, and does from JFK--Florida and West Coast.
So, if potential for higher LCC traffic at SYR exists, why isn't B6 with its lower CASM already running an SYR schedule like: 3x JFK, 1x MCO, 1x FLL, 1X TPA, 1x BOS, some of those A320's?
Jim
B6 has a model that just doesn't work for me here. I love them as an airline, but I often fly to DEN, and the only connection they have to DEN is redeye returns and/or 6-8 hour layovers. They have often run up to 4x SYR-JFK daily, but somehow still didn't have reasonable connection times, and then only one daily JFK-DEN, late night, was a pain. I longed for them to add SYR-BOS, so I could connect to the daytime flight to DEN, and then when they finally added SYR-BOS, it didn't line up with the DEN flight.
You want to know why B6 isn't bigger in SYR? It's things like that. B6 just marches to the beat of their own drum. Plenty of room for WN, and they would hardly complete, because there's no way WN would fly SYR-NYC...at least to begin with.
I did DEN-BOS-SYR this past March during the day and the flight lined up perfectally, granted the layover was 5hrs but it was better than a red-eye
DCA-ROCguy wrote:What I don't get is why JetBlue hasn't grown more aggressively in SYR, due to the absence of Southwest. If Syracuse is as ripe for Southwest as you all say, JetBlue should already be significantly larger there.
This economic analysis shows as of 2016-17 JetBlue CASM of about $0.10.2, and Southwest CASM of $0.10.9. CASM chart is on p. 38.
http://www.oliverwyman.com/content/dam/ ... 17_web.pdf
JetBlue has a lower CASM and a significant network of its own, including coverage of major SYR PDEW markets, especially Florida. You all said above that SYR has 1x BOS, 2x JFK, 1x MCO. Or, only one more net flight than ROC, which has 3xJFK.
Let's say WN entered SYR, and stimulated some growth. Probably not much; we saw above that ROC 2016 was about 2.37 million pax and SYR about 1.98 million. So even stimulating to the level of the ROC market--which SYR hasn't reached with all that Canada-to-PA catchment you all talk about-we'd probably see them enter SYR with 5x daily, and JetBlue would probably shed a daily, maybe MCO to keep up 2x daily to JFK for businesspeople.
A WN SYR schedule would probably parallel ROC--3x BWI, 1x MCO, and 1x somewhere else in Florida, probably either TPA or FLL. Much of the BWI traffic would be connecting, much to places B6 could cover, and does from JFK--Florida and West Coast.
So, if potential for higher LCC traffic at SYR exists, why isn't B6 with its lower CASM already running an SYR schedule like: 3x JFK, 1x MCO, 1x FLL, 1X TPA, 1x BOS, some of those A320's?
Jim
DCA-ROCguy wrote:Jim, a lot of the reason for lack of aggressive growth by B6 can be attributed to City Hall, which owned and operated SYR until just a few years ago. For years, maximized revenues from airlines had trumped decent affordable air service; thus the bleed to ROC, ALB, and even BUF. Given the pax totals ROC vs. SYR, I submit those would at least even out were SW to serve SYR. If fares from SYR become more competitive with its neighbors, SYR will flourish. That would corfirm comments on the subject by the former B6 CEO several years ago. (I'm on a road trip and cannot immediately provide a link, but the story appeared in the Syr. Post-Standard circa 2010. Guess we'll find out tomorrow, but if SYR doesn't get AS there will be a huge and cry.)What I don't get is why JetBlue hasn't grown more aggressively in SYR, due to the absence of Southwest. If Syracuse is as ripe for Southwest as you all say, JetBlue should already be significantly larger there.
This economic analysis shows as of 2016-17 JetBlue CASM of about $0.10.2, and Southwest CASM of $0.10.9. CASM chart is on p. 38.
http://www.oliverwyman.com/content/dam/ ... 17_web.pdf
JetBlue has a lower CASM and a significant network of its own, including coverage of major SYR PDEW markets, especially Florida. You all said above that SYR has 1x BOS, 2x JFK, 1x MCO. Or, only one more net flight than ROC, which has 3xJFK.
Let's say WN entered SYR, and stimulated some growth. Probably not much; we saw above that ROC 2016 was about 2.37 million pax and SYR about 1.98 million. So even stimulating to the level of the ROC market--which SYR hasn't reached with all that Canada-to-PA catchment you all talk about-we'd probably see them enter SYR with 5x daily, and JetBlue would probably shed a daily, maybe MCO to keep up 2x daily to JFK for businesspeople.
A WN SYR schedule would probably parallel ROC--3x BWI, 1x MCO, and 1x somewhere else in Florida, probably either TPA or FLL. Much of the BWI traffic would be connecting, much to places B6 could cover, and does from JFK--Florida and West Coast.
So, if potential for higher LCC traffic at SYR exists, why isn't B6 with its lower CASM already running an SYR schedule like: 3x JFK, 1x MCO, 1x FLL, 1X TPA, 1x BOS, some of those A320's?
Jim
TucsonDave wrote:Sorry for typo in final sentence. Should read SW, not AS.DCA-ROCguy wrote:Jim, a lot of the reason for lack of aggressive growth by B6 can be attributed to City Hall, which owned and operated SYR until just a few years ago. For years, maximized revenues from airlines had trumped decent affordable air service; thus the bleed to ROC, ALB, and even BUF. Given the pax totals ROC vs. SYR, I submit those would at least even out were SW to serve SYR. If fares from SYR become more competitive with its neighbors, SYR will flourish. That would corfirm comments on the subject by the former B6 CEO several years ago. (I'm on a road trip and cannot immediately provide a link, but the story appeared in the Syr. Post-Standard circa 2010. Guess we'll find out tomorrow, but if SYR doesn't get AS there will be a huge and cry.)What I don't get is why JetBlue hasn't grown more aggressively in SYR, due to the absence of Southwest. If Syracuse is as ripe for Southwest as you all say, JetBlue should already be significantly larger there.
This economic analysis shows as of 2016-17 JetBlue CASM of about $0.10.2, and Southwest CASM of $0.10.9. CASM chart is on p. 38.
http://www.oliverwyman.com/content/dam/ ... 17_web.pdf
JetBlue has a lower CASM and a significant network of its own, including coverage of major SYR PDEW markets, especially Florida. You all said above that SYR has 1x BOS, 2x JFK, 1x MCO. Or, only one more net flight than ROC, which has 3xJFK.
Let's say WN entered SYR, and stimulated some growth. Probably not much; we saw above that ROC 2016 was about 2.37 million pax and SYR about 1.98 million. So even stimulating to the level of the ROC market--which SYR hasn't reached with all that Canada-to-PA catchment you all talk about-we'd probably see them enter SYR with 5x daily, and JetBlue would probably shed a daily, maybe MCO to keep up 2x daily to JFK for businesspeople.
A WN SYR schedule would probably parallel ROC--3x BWI, 1x MCO, and 1x somewhere else in Florida, probably either TPA or FLL. Much of the BWI traffic would be connecting, much to places B6 could cover, and does from JFK--Florida and West Coast.
So, if potential for higher LCC traffic at SYR exists, why isn't B6 with its lower CASM already running an SYR schedule like: 3x JFK, 1x MCO, 1x FLL, 1X TPA, 1x BOS, some of those A320's?
Jim
sbaflyer wrote:https://twitter.com/SyracuseAirport/status/980789343219601413
Hopefully based on this, there is more to come.
SyracuseAvGeek wrote:Frontier added SYR to their booking algorithm. You can now book flights non-stop from SYR to MCO, RDU, DEN, and ORD
RL757PVD wrote:How is that a let down? 4 new nonstop cities on an A320... that's great news for SYR
SyracuseAvGeek wrote:Frontier added SYR to their booking algorithm. You can now book flights non-stop from SYR to MCO, RDU, DEN, and ORD
RL757PVD wrote:While I certainly hope the new service succeeds, I believe the hype was way over the top for an announcement of all of nine flights per week. Only Southwest would have justified the hype. Once again, SYR has to settle for mediocrity.How is that a let down? 4 new nonstop cities on an A320... that's great news for SYR
TucsonDave wrote:While I certainly hope the new service succeeds, I believe the hype was way over the top for an announcement of all of nine flights per week. Only Southwest would have justified the hype. Once again, SYR has to settle for mediocrity.
DCA-ROCguy wrote:What RL757PVD said.
Good for SYR, getting nine weeklies, not just say two or four. I've never thought it a serious possibility that Frontier would come to ROC. My guess is, that given Frontier's business model, IAG and SYR will represent them for Upstate New York, and maybe ALB at some point. Were they to come to ROC, I would guess 2 weekly DEN and 2 weekly MCO. RDU and ORD would be less likely, but not out of the question.
Jim