Chemist wrote:

I think we can easily see the ranking of service and customer focus of the top 3 US airlines.
United has been pretty dismal for a long time and they don't seem to be improving.

fanoftristars wrote:

Jamake1 wrote:

jetero wrote:

The champagne flute was ridiculous from the start. Are you actually using glassware or back to plastic cups?

The FAA does not permit US carriers to utilize glassware for pre-departure service on the ground. For pre-departure wine/champagne, the original plastic stemmed glass is now used. It is not the plastic blue cup, but a small clear hard plastic cup that has a stem on it.

The glass champagne flute used in flight is my favorite component of the Polaris product...

Someone had better let Delta know... I've had glass flutes pre-departure in Delta One on my last 4 flights.

MSPNWA wrote:

For the umpteenth time, "Polaris" is not a new seat. It's a brand. It would be a colossal marketing blunder to not promote an improved product. And again, it would create problems with future and close-in equipment changes until fleets are standardized. That is not a realistic proposal.

Jamake1 wrote:

jetero wrote:

The champagne flute was ridiculous from the start. Are you actually using glassware or back to plastic cups?

The FAA does not permit US carriers to utilize glassware for pre-departure service on the ground. For pre-departure wine/champagne, the original plastic stemmed glass is now used. It is not the plastic blue cup, but a small clear hard plastic cup that has a stem on it.

The glass champagne flute used in flight is my favorite component of the Polaris product...

B737900ER wrote:

[
I don’t think people understand how incredibly complex it is to modify an airplane in the United States.

millionsofmiles wrote:

Jamake1 wrote:

jetero wrote:

The champagne flute was ridiculous from the start. Are you actually using glassware or back to plastic cups?

The FAA does not permit US carriers to utilize glassware for pre-departure service on the ground. For pre-departure wine/champagne, the original plastic stemmed glass is now used. It is not the plastic blue cup, but a small clear hard plastic cup that has a stem on it.

The glass champagne flute used in flight is my favorite component of the Polaris product...

All pre-departure serviceware must be collected before "movement on the surface" and galley compartments cannot be opened during taxi. The use of plastic enables the crew to dispose of glasses without opening galley compartments. The FAA does not prohibit the use of glassware in pre-departure services. The use of glass simply creates more restrictions for crew and passengers.

We use glassware in FC for Pre-departure on the 321T between LAX/SFO and JFK. Some flight attendants opt to use plastic ware to avoid any complications. I use the glassware, as prescribed in our procedures, as I feel comfortable doing so.

tpaewr wrote:

727200 wrote:

The problem is that the old UA no longer exists. Instead the folks from co run the show and as they have shown since day one of this 'equal merger' they have no clue how to run an American international airline. They are in the big league now but still act like they are only serving Waco, Lubbock, and Austin.

I think your concept is inverted;too much of the old UA still exists. It was United that was known for a Noah's Ark of liveries in various states of decay and huge variety of premium cabins.

You also realize other than the Pacific CO had passed up UA in both ASMs and destinations in the majors international theaters. Before we laud the glory of the 3 cabin 747s and NRT hub verse long haul on smaller 2 cabin lets remember which one is a functional model today and which one has joined PA and the 707 in the dust bin of history.

727200 wrote:

Don't try and tell anyone how great co was when the reality was they were a smaller regional carrier who flew to off sites with a few token cities thrown in.

727200 wrote:

tpaewr wrote:

727200 wrote:

The problem is that the old UA no longer exists. Instead the folks from co run the show and as they have shown since day one of this 'equal merger' they have no clue how to run an American international airline. They are in the big league now but still act like they are only serving Waco, Lubbock, and Austin.

I think your concept is inverted;too much of the old UA still exists. It was United that was known for a Noah's Ark of liveries in various states of decay and huge variety of premium cabins.

You also realize other than the Pacific CO had passed up UA in both ASMs and destinations in the majors international theaters. Before we laud the glory of the 3 cabin 747s and NRT hub verse long haul on smaller 2 cabin lets remember which one is a functional model today and which one has joined PA and the 707 in the dust bin of history.

And you do realize that in co's own 10K filing they stated they had no access to capital to pay for ordered new aircraft? Without the 'merger' co would be a memory. You also realize that the reason co went to the secondary cities and had to use the 2 cabin was because they didn't have the planes or frequency for the major business centers and that is why they were forced to have a 2-cabin plane. They could not attract the high dollar business clientele and so had only a business upgrade along with coach.
Don't try and tell anyone how great co was when the reality was they were a smaller regional carrier who flew to off sites with a few token cities thrown in.

727200 wrote:

tpaewr wrote:

727200 wrote:

The problem is that the old UA no longer exists. Instead the folks from co run the show and as they have shown since day one of this 'equal merger' they have no clue how to run an American international airline. They are in the big league now but still act like they are only serving Waco, Lubbock, and Austin.

I think your concept is inverted;too much of the old UA still exists. It was United that was known for a Noah's Ark of liveries in various states of decay and huge variety of premium cabins.

You also realize other than the Pacific CO had passed up UA in both ASMs and destinations in the majors international theaters. Before we laud the glory of the 3 cabin 747s and NRT hub verse long haul on smaller 2 cabin lets remember which one is a functional model today and which one has joined PA and the 707 in the dust bin of history.

And you do realize that in co's own 10K filing they stated they had no access to capital to pay for ordered new aircraft? Without the 'merger' co would be a memory. You also realize that the reason co went to the secondary cities and had to use the 2 cabin was because they didn't have the planes or frequency for the major business centers and that is why they were forced to have a 2-cabin plane. They could not attract the high dollar business clientele and so had only a business upgrade along with coach.
Don't try and tell anyone how great co was when the reality was they were a smaller regional carrier who flew to off sites with a few token cities thrown in.

oldannyboy wrote:

B737900ER wrote:

[
I don’t think people understand how incredibly complex it is to modify an airplane in the United States.

Wow.

Can't see how this would be any different from any other part of the world?

...Unless you imply that things are done to such a higher standard there, while in the rest of this vast third-world planet amateur mechanics play with duct tape and carpet left-overs, and pimp J class up in a week-end's time...

jetero wrote:

The bloody mary cart, Saks bedding, etc., etc., is all a bunch of gimmicks if you ask me. What does that matter if the soft product is lacking? If people really buy a business class seat because of a bloody mary cart, then I guess I'm not normal.

irelayer wrote:

jetero wrote:

The bloody mary cart, Saks bedding, etc., etc., is all a bunch of gimmicks if you ask me. What does that matter if the soft product is lacking? If people really buy a business class seat because of a bloody mary cart, then I guess I'm not normal.

Because it was supposed to be the justification for getting rid of International F.

UPlog wrote:

I guess in summary

▷ United bungled the marketing rollout and managing public expectation. While Polaris was meant to be service concept its primarily associated with the seat in eyes of consumers.

▷ United misjudged some of the soft product items which turned out to be fantasy which either customers did not want or undeliverable by crews as intended.

▷ Its still going to be years before the majority of international customers will experience the new seat and lounges, leaving many disappointed or underwhelmed by the existing generation product.

UPlog wrote:

And if it was up to me, I would tone down all the Polaris marketing until such time bulk of fleet is actually equipped, and the promised lounges are operational.

Seems to me almost a case of bait and switch of pitching one product/experience, while in reality, the customer ends up with something entirely different.

EChid wrote:

Want to advertise general service improvements? Great, find another name for it and differentiate your improved service AND your new hard product, so that client's can be excited about better service on old products and better everything on new products. Totally viable.

UPlog wrote:

And if it was up to me, I would tone down all the Polaris marketing until such time bulk of fleet is actually equipped, and the promised lounges are operational.

Seems to me almost a case of bait and switch of pitching one product/experience, while in reality, the customer ends up with something entirely different.

B737900ER wrote:

oldannyboy wrote:

B737900ER wrote:

[
I don’t think people understand how incredibly complex it is to modify an airplane in the United States.

Wow.

Can't see how this would be any different from any other part of the world?

...Unless you imply that things are done to such a higher standard there, while in the rest of this vast third-world planet amateur mechanics play with duct tape and carpet left-overs, and pimp J class up in a week-end's time...

There’s a thing called the FAA which is a bureaucrat nightmare. A simple modification can require a year or more for engineering approvals, months of testing and then possibly months of waiting for paperwork to be processed after the mod, depending on their mood. No other country in the world has to deal with the complex regulations that American carriers deal with.

So yes, it’s very different than other parts of the world.

MSPNWA wrote:

What you describe is what UA has done. Every J seat saw soft product improvements, and new hard products were also highlighted in function and availability. Sounds like a good time to re-brand J class, as you say. Your solution doesn't match up with your complaint. Not delivering all improvements at the initially expected speed is a separate issue.

VC10er wrote:

I UPDATED THIS POST: I used to be hard core global business sky warrior, often doing 2/3 long hauls and ULH a month! My average year would be around 250,000 BIS miles. At a certain point, when the novelty wears off the most important things rise to the top and caviar spreads with ice sculptures matter much less.
I did this sky warrior routine from about 1992 to 2008. I would assure my 1k, or then GS (when United started GS) then start switching carriers for a change of scenery and to satisfy my curiosity over other airlines premium cabins.
I shall speak only for myself, below is what’s critical (but I’ve also had this conversation with other sky warriors and compared notes, and we were always in agreement)
#1: seat comfort, storage and later on technology
#2: specially created convenience features (GS was amazing at this, and counted most during travel snafus: our worst nightmare when all you want is to get home, or to your meeting)
#3: decent lounges, with places to lay down on long layovers
#4: airlines that know exactly how to balance service and over-kill service
#5: decent food. It didn’t need to be fabulous, just good
#6: IFE
I’ve only experienced true Polaris on 6 legs on United’s 77W - all 6 flights were perfect as per the criteria above (except lounges). The Polaris seat is very comfortable (especially the bed) and enough privacy. Plenty of work space and well designed for technology. The cabin was very attractive and the service just fine from smiling and attentive FA’s. Food was fine.
I’m no longer GS and wow, what a downgrade it is to being just 1k. But I’m happy to not be traveling as much. I miss the flying but not the meetings 6 to 12 time-zones off. I suffered jet lag for 15 years: abroad and at home.
United’s current climb over seat is actually very comfortable to sleep on, but 12 hours next to a stranger stinks as does the tight space. But while it gets the job done and I love the Saks duvet, it is true that the “understandable” long wait to get the true hard product and lounge sucks.

I do think United is over promising to business travelers because of the fraction of a chance to actually get that seat (which again I think is great). In my professional opinion as a 30 year vet of branding/advertising that you can always lead a consumer to try you once, but if you don’t live up to the promise you’ve created- then they won’t come back a second time. Not unless they don’t have a choice due to employer contracts or you’re locked in via your lifetime status.
United needs to pull back on aggressively promoting Polaris for 12/18 months- until the odds are about 50/50, or better that your 772 to Hong Kong, São Paulo, Sydney, India and even London and Frankfurt, has the Polaris hard product and that your hub has a Polaris Lounge.
Instead United ought to be touting what they can truly claim, and there is a lot of good stuff United can claim: best FF program (if they keep MP generous) international route network, new aircraft wide bodies (787s and 77W) and more new NB coming (many NB now renovated) better United Clubs, improved gate areas, technology and improved customer service and on time performance (I said improved!)
I feel like the palpable improvements felt by frequent UA fliers is not being leveraged and are being drowned out by so much “Polaris” noise.

millionsofmiles wrote:

The FAA does not permit US carriers to utilize glassware for pre-departure service on the ground. For pre-departure wine/champagne, the original plastic stemmed glass is now used. It is not the plastic blue cup, but a small clear hard plastic cup that has a stem on it.

The glass champagne flute used in flight is my favorite component of the Polaris product...

727200 wrote:

tpaewr wrote:

727200 wrote:

The problem is that the old UA no longer exists. Instead the folks from co run the show and as they have shown since day one of this 'equal merger' they have no clue how to run an American international airline. They are in the big league now but still act like they are only serving Waco, Lubbock, and Austin.

I think your concept is inverted;too much of the old UA still exists. It was United that was known for a Noah's Ark of liveries in various states of decay and huge variety of premium cabins.

You also realize other than the Pacific CO had passed up UA in both ASMs and destinations in the majors international theaters. Before we laud the glory of the 3 cabin 747s and NRT hub verse long haul on smaller 2 cabin lets remember which one is a functional model today and which one has joined PA and the 707 in the dust bin of history.

And you do realize that in co's own 10K filing they stated they had no access to capital to pay for ordered new aircraft? Without the 'merger' co would be a memory. You also realize that the reason co went to the secondary cities and had to use the 2 cabin was because they didn't have the planes or frequency for the major business centers and that is why they were forced to have a 2-cabin plane. They could not attract the high dollar business clientele and so had only a business upgrade along with coach.
Don't try and tell anyone how great co was when the reality was they were a smaller regional carrier who flew to off sites with a few token cities thrown in.

VC10er wrote:

The original crystal “globe” cracked on dry ice.

questions wrote:

millionsofmiles wrote:

The FAA does not permit US carriers to utilize glassware for pre-departure service on the ground. For pre-departure wine/champagne, the original plastic stemmed glass is now used. It is not the plastic blue cup, but a small clear hard plastic cup that has a stem on it.

The glass champagne flute used in flight is my favorite component of the Polaris product...

All pre-departure serviceware must be collected before "movement on the surface" and galley compartments cannot be opened during taxi. The use of plastic enables the crew to dispose of glasses without opening galley compartments. The FAA does not prohibit the use of glassware in pre-departure services. The use of glass simply creates more restrictions for crew and passengers.

We use glassware in FC for Pre-departure on the 321T between LAX/SFO and JFK. Some flight attendants opt to use plastic ware to avoid any complications. I use the glassware, as prescribed in our procedures, as I feel comfortable doing so.

janders wrote:

No more gel pillows, mattress covers or slippers?

“On request” option seems to have been removed from menus starting this month

http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/ ... olaris-cut

In the 15 months since United has introduced Polaris, they’ve opened a single Polaris Lounge, and it will be several more months until the next Polaris Lounge opens; as a point of comparison, American has opened four Flagship Lounges in less than six months

So far United has reconfigured a grand total of five planes with Polaris seats, in addition to the 14 Boeing 777-300ERs that were delivered with these seats; not a single 777-200 or 787 has been reconfigured with Polaris seats, and many passengers are still finding themselves in a configuration with eight seats per row in business class

Specifically, they’ve offered mattress pads, gel pillows, and slippers on request. They don’t load enough of these for all passengers, presumably to save money. A vast majority of passengers aren’t going to read the entire menu, and as a result, most people have no clue that all of these amenities are available in Polaris.

jumbojet wrote:

janders wrote:

No more gel pillows, mattress covers or slippers?

“On request” option seems to have been removed from menus starting this month

http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/ ... olaris-cut

There is a lot more to that article than just the pulling back of covers, pillows etc...

There are a few that caught my attention:

In the 15 months since United has introduced Polaris, they’ve opened a single Polaris Lounge, and it will be several more months until the next Polaris Lounge opens; as a point of comparison, American has opened four Flagship Lounges in less than six months

So far United has reconfigured a grand total of five planes with Polaris seats, in addition to the 14 Boeing 777-300ERs that were delivered with these seats; not a single 777-200 or 787 has been reconfigured with Polaris seats, and many passengers are still finding themselves in a configuration with eight seats per row in business class

Is it true that no 777's have the new Polaris seat yet? Isnt UA in the slow season, soon to be entering the busy summer grind? Shouldnt UA have been working like the dickens to get as many of these Polaris mods done for S18 as possible? Thats truly unacceptable. Even more so, UA is still flying around birds with 8 across in J?

DL just sent its first 777 in for Mods, 2nd time around in fact for them. UA still hasnt even started the first mods on their own 777 fleet. Sad. Very sad and inexcusable.

Last quote from the One Mile At a Time article that I found shocking:

Specifically, they’ve offered mattress pads, gel pillows, and slippers on request. They don’t load enough of these for all passengers, presumably to save money. A vast majority of passengers aren’t going to read the entire menu, and as a result, most people have no clue that all of these amenities are available in Polaris.

jetero wrote:

jumbojet wrote:

janders wrote:

No more gel pillows, mattress covers or slippers?

“On request” option seems to have been removed from menus starting this month

http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/ ... olaris-cut

There is a lot more to that article than just the pulling back of covers, pillows etc...

There are a few that caught my attention:

In the 15 months since United has introduced Polaris, they’ve opened a single Polaris Lounge, and it will be several more months until the next Polaris Lounge opens; as a point of comparison, American has opened four Flagship Lounges in less than six months

So far United has reconfigured a grand total of five planes with Polaris seats, in addition to the 14 Boeing 777-300ERs that were delivered with these seats; not a single 777-200 or 787 has been reconfigured with Polaris seats, and many passengers are still finding themselves in a configuration with eight seats per row in business class

Is it true that no 777's have the new Polaris seat yet? Isnt UA in the slow season, soon to be entering the busy summer grind? Shouldnt UA have been working like the dickens to get as many of these Polaris mods done for S18 as possible? Thats truly unacceptable. Even more so, UA is still flying around birds with 8 across in J?

DL just sent its first 777 in for Mods, 2nd time around in fact for them. UA still hasnt even started the first mods on their own 777 fleet. Sad. Very sad and inexcusable.

Last quote from the One Mile At a Time article that I found shocking:

Specifically, they’ve offered mattress pads, gel pillows, and slippers on request. They don’t load enough of these for all passengers, presumably to save money. A vast majority of passengers aren’t going to read the entire menu, and as a result, most people have no clue that all of these amenities are available in Polaris.

Shocking!

Sad.

United1 wrote:

jetero wrote:

jumbojet wrote:

There is a lot more to that article than just the pulling back of covers, pillows etc...

There are a few that caught my attention:





Is it true that no 777's have the new Polaris seat yet? Isnt UA in the slow season, soon to be entering the busy summer grind? Shouldnt UA have been working like the dickens to get as many of these Polaris mods done for S18 as possible? Thats truly unacceptable. Even more so, UA is still flying around birds with 8 across in J?

DL just sent its first 777 in for Mods, 2nd time around in fact for them. UA still hasnt even started the first mods on their own 777 fleet. Sad. Very sad and inexcusable.

Last quote from the One Mile At a Time article that I found shocking:

Shocking!

Sad.

UA has a 772 in in XMN being Polarisized...it should be back in service in the middle of April. The priority was getting the 763 mods underway as the seats on the IPTE 763s are older than on the 777s. Just like DL prioritized retrofitting their 772s over other aircraft as the seats on those aircraft are the oldest lie flats in the fleet.

jetero wrote:

United1 wrote:

jetero wrote:

Shocking!

Sad.

UA has a 772 in in XMN being Polarisized...it should be back in service in the middle of April. The priority was getting the 763 mods underway as the seats on the IPTE 763s are older than on the 777s. Just like DL prioritized retrofitting their 772s over other aircraft as the seats on those aircraft are the oldest lie flats in the fleet.

But DL has 2. 2 is greater than 1! Listen to jumbojet!

questions wrote:

VC10er wrote:

The original crystal “globe” cracked on dry ice.

Wow. Forgetting for a minute under-delivering on the full Polaris service concept, when I read this example and others, e.g., the Mimosa and Bloody Mary cart, I wonder how inept United’s Marketing/ Product Development group is!

Did United stress test service items prior to putting them into service? Food in glass packed with dry ice is certainly serious enough to be thoroughly tested.

Did they talk and listen to customers to understand what is really important and valued? Maybe they did but it doesn’t appear United used experienced and sophisticated marketers to interact with their customers to draw out the important insights required to develop a relevant offering.

This is not the 1960s and 70s when flying was still a novelty for most and passengers wanted to be wowed with elaborate, time-consuming meal service. Quality, choice, flexibility, consistency/dependability... so they can work, relax and sleep... served with a bit of class by people who love their jobs is what most upfront want.

United1 wrote:

jetero wrote:

United1 wrote:

UA has a 772 in in XMN being Polarisized...it should be back in service in the middle of April. The priority was getting the 763 mods underway as the seats on the IPTE 763s are older than on the 777s. Just like DL prioritized retrofitting their 772s over other aircraft as the seats on those aircraft are the oldest lie flats in the fleet.

But DL has 2. 2 is greater than 1! Listen to jumbojet!

2 what? 2 777s with DL Suites? DL just sent their first one in to be modified....

This is the 4th time UA has changed out their premium offering on the 777 since launching the aircraft.

F Class/J Class
1. Original Barco-Loungers in F/J
2. Lie Flats in F/Recaro Barco-Loungers in J
3. IPTE lie flat F/J
4. Polaris

jumbojet wrote:

United1 wrote:

jetero wrote:

But DL has 2. 2 is greater than 1! Listen to jumbojet!

2 what? 2 777s with DL Suites? DL just sent their first one in to be modified....

This is the 4th time UA has changed out their premium offering on the 777 since launching the aircraft.

F Class/J Class
1. Original Barco-Loungers in F/J
2. Lie Flats in F/Recaro Barco-Loungers in J
3. IPTE lie flat F/J
4. Polaris

Allow me to reclarify. Delta's 777 fleet is already on their 2nd round of flatbed, direct aisle access seating whereas UA sitll cant even get their first one out of mods. Wouldntt you say that the UA 777 serves a much more important role than their 767? EWR-HKG VS. EWR - MAD, which one is more important? 16 months and not a single 777 mod done yet and only 5 767's. Combine that with the continued elimination of Polaris soft products and you wonder who was in charge of this program from the get go. Also, one can argue that why even bother modding the 767's. Waste of money in my eyes. The planes are old and won't even be around for a signifcant amount of time plus, the 76's are already flatbed. Why waste the CAPEX? Meanwhile, a significant # of UA's 787s will be flying around an old and vrery dated cabin for a very long time. Just a terrible business plan. Industry worst!!

United1 wrote:

jumbojet wrote:

United1 wrote:

2 what? 2 777s with DL Suites? DL just sent their first one in to be modified....

This is the 4th time UA has changed out their premium offering on the 777 since launching the aircraft.

F Class/J Class
1. Original Barco-Loungers in F/J
2. Lie Flats in F/Recaro Barco-Loungers in J
3. IPTE lie flat F/J
4. Polaris

Allow me to reclarify. Delta's 777 fleet is already on their 2nd round of flatbed, direct aisle access seating whereas UA sitll cant even get their first one out of mods. Wouldntt you say that the UA 777 serves a much more important role than their 767? EWR-HKG VS. EWR - MAD, which one is more important? 16 months and not a single 777 mod done yet and only 5 767's. Combine that with the continued elimination of Polaris soft products and you wonder who was in charge of this program from the get go. Also, one can argue that why even bother modding the 767's. Waste of money in my eyes. The planes are old and won't even be around for a signifcant amount of time plus, the 76's are already flatbed. Why waste the CAPEX? Meanwhile, a significant # of UA's 787s will be flying around an old and vrery dated cabin for a very long time. Just a terrible business plan. Industry worst!!

I get it Jumbo you have an agenda...

Let me correct you on a few things:

1. UA had lie flats on their aircraft before AA or DL did and completed installing lie flats in F/J before either AA or DL did. You keep banging people over the head with the AAA thing...it's great its nice its lovely but it is way more important to you than it is to most people. I don't know about you but I don't spend of the time getting out of my seat...I spend most of it in.
2. A 777 is no more or less important than a 767 is. UA prioritized the 767s because they have the oldest interiors in the fleet just like DL is running the 777s and 764s through first because they have the oldest and worst interiors in their fleet.
3. UA stated they would begin 777 mods in 2018...it's 2018 and the first one is due out next month.
4. DL announced their vaunted suite product in August of 2016...they didn't even have it on an airplane until October of 2017...that's 15 months...UA launched Polaris in June of 2016 and had it in service in February of 2017 that is 9 months.
5. It's not a waste of capex to outfit the 763s with Polaris as they may be around longer than you think...
6. The 787s will get Polaris soon enough, right now the 767s and 777s are the priority.

Delta now says it has fully flat beds with direct aisle access in business class on all widebodies on overseas flights. Sounds like a lot of caveats, once again. In this case, however, Delta makes it easier to find what you’re getting. That’s good, because it has multiple different seats depending upon the aircraft type.
Let’s start with what this means overall. Like United it means Delta has fully flat beds in business class on all long haul, or as they say “overseas” flights. Unlike United, Delta guarantees direct aisle access for every seat. United doesn’t have that on any airplane it flies so that is a real differentiator.

caverunner17 wrote:

Austin787 wrote:

DL announced its Business suites in late 2016 to much fanfare, and as of now only the A350s have it.

How many other new long-haul aircraft has DL received since then though? That's the issue I see. Continuing to receive new aircraft with old seats means there was very little forward thinking.

The bigger issue I see is UA trying to open premium routes with the 789 with the old seats. Look at SFO-SIN. SQ is pretty consistently $700-1,000+ cheaper in J than UA and has a far superior hard and soft product. I just don't get it. If you're SFO based, why would you pay more to fly UA on a worse product? UA just doesn't have an interest in actually competing. They're great at marketing -- just following through they can't do successfully.

B737900ER wrote:

Because you cripple the operation by having tiny subfleets.


Imagine you bought a ticket to fly from IAH-SCL and the polaris aircraft broke and was subbed for a non Polaris aircraft. No big deal, but down the line the customers who were expecting to coming back don’t have it, the flight the next day to AMS doesn’t have it, the flight to EWR won’t have it and when it turns around to GVA it won’t have it and every subsequent route that the aircraft will fly won’t have it, all the while you’ll have passengers who expect it and may have paid a premium for it.

You could confine them to certain stations and routes, but you still loose the operational flexibility that airlines rely on.

LAXintl wrote:

Yes certainly seat retrofits can be complex, especially on the first frame and get it all certified. However, we also know airlines can very much push the process along by running multiple lines and also not waiting on having retrofits coincide with major checks. Its really a decision company can make of chooses.
For example, AA has pushed its 777 biz and now premium economy retrofits quite aggressively with multiple airplanes out of service back to back at vendors to get it done.

B737900ER wrote:

Because of the nature of the operation you don’t know which flight will have Polaris more than seven days in advance, and that’s still a crap shoot.

questions wrote:

Did they talk and listen to customers to understand what is really important and valued? Maybe they did but it doesn’t appear United used experienced and sophisticated marketers to interact with their customers to draw out the important insights required to develop a relevant offering.

This is not the 1960s and 70s when flying was still a novelty for most and passengers wanted to be wowed with elaborate, time-consuming meal service. Quality, choice, flexibility, consistency/dependability... so they can work, relax and sleep... served with a bit of class by people who love their jobs is what most upfront want.

jumbojet wrote:

Is it true that no 777's have the new Polaris seat yet? Isnt UA in the slow season, soon to be entering the busy summer grind? Shouldnt UA have been working like the dickens to get as many of these Polaris mods done for S18 as possible? Thats truly unacceptable. Even more so, UA is still flying around birds with 8 across in J?

DL just sent its first 777 in for Mods, 2nd time around in fact for them. UA still hasnt even started the first mods on their own 777 fleet. Sad. Very sad and inexcusable.

jumbojet wrote:

If United had any common sense, they would have made the 787's a priority and left the 767's as is. You have carriers from much less developed countries that are now flying planes with business class with all aisle access cabins. Delta has had all aisle access since 2014 on their widebody fleet whereas UA cant even get the ball rolling on their first go around. A very small percentage of their international fleet has direct aisle access.

As for DL's 777 cabin refiits to the D1 suites, it was only first announced in May of last year. 7 months later, the first one is in mods. Not bad and a heck of a lot better than the time frame you provided above. No one knew where the suites would go outside of the 350.

https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2017/05/1 ... y-comfort/