United Polaris Promise Never Matched Reality

jumbojet · Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:04 am

MSPNWA wrote:
questions wrote:
Did they talk and listen to customers to understand what is really important and valued? Maybe they did but it doesn’t appear United used experienced and sophisticated marketers to interact with their customers to draw out the important insights required to develop a relevant offering.

This is not the 1960s and 70s when flying was still a novelty for most and passengers wanted to be wowed with elaborate, time-consuming meal service. Quality, choice, flexibility, consistency/dependability... so they can work, relax and sleep... served with a bit of class by people who love their jobs is what most upfront want.

There was extensive testing of the Polaris concept, more testing than I've heard of from any other American carrier recently. I think the slow drawdown is a typical evolution of U.S. carrier service. I think it's hard to have real-world testing since in a closed environment, knowledgeable testers overstate desire for certain amenities. In regular use the demand for items is lower. When margins are under pressure, cuts are made to try to correct it (why they follow this predictable, economically flawed "in good times spend, in rougher times cut" cycle is beyond me). Service cuts are an easy target. But I believe a big reason they are an easy target is because demand isn't significantly lost afterwards. It was common to hear reports of very few passengers actually caring about the enhanced soft product of Polaris class. They're cuts that largely only specific airline fans and click-bait travel writers care about. Some of the initial cuts to Polaris were consistent with early complaints. Now they've possibly moved to items that few actually cared about.

jumbojet wrote:
Is it true that no 777's have the new Polaris seat yet? Isnt UA in the slow season, soon to be entering the busy summer grind? Shouldnt UA have been working like the dickens to get as many of these Polaris mods done for S18 as possible? Thats truly unacceptable. Even more so, UA is still flying around birds with 8 across in J?

DL just sent its first 777 in for Mods, 2nd time around in fact for them. UA still hasnt even started the first mods on their own 777 fleet. Sad. Very sad and inexcusable.

Beware of misleading travel writers that care more about clicks than giving you accurate and relevant information.

Lounges: If you read the article, it could easily cause one to believe that AA pumped out 4 lounges in 6 months. In reality, the AA lounges were announced in February 2016, about 4 months before Polaris. It took them 15 months for the 1st to open. It took them 22 months for the 4th. And keep in mind that some of the AA lounges are renovations, while the UA lounges are all new spaces or complete rebuilds. And the Polaris lounge design and benefits is a step up from the AA lounges. So it's true that UA badly missed their initial lounges estimates (which now looking back were way too optimistic, and they've been partially pushed back because of listening to customers and making them larger) but if they open 3 more this summer as scheduled and 1 more later this year, UA's pace is actually very comparable to AA's. Now neither can be called fast, but it's inaccurate to say or imply that AA is way ahead of the game.

Seats: When Polaris was launched, UA didn't give a timeline for retrofits. Sometime after they did give estimates, and they missed the initial 767 and 777 estimates slightly. But retrofits are going pretty much as scheduled. Of all people these bloggers should know how long the process takes with fleets this large, but of course that's not going to garner clicks. What I also think is sad is that DL has up to 10 year-old seats flying around in their longest range airplane with still some time to go before they're all replaced. They're actually older than the seats UA is replacing in their 777s (which were modded in the 2010-13 timeframe).

Good for DL on going on round 2. DL was also way behind when that 1st generation first flew in 2008 up until the final flat-beds were retrofitted in 2015. They were replacing recliners and angle-flats. The industry goes in cycles. UA was first at all lie-flats. DL was first at all-aisle access on widebodies, then were followed by AA. Now UA has the plans to be the first with a consistent widebody seat fleet-wide.

jumbojet wrote:
If United had any common sense, they would have made the 787's a priority and left the 767's as is. You have carriers from much less developed countries that are now flying planes with business class with all aisle access cabins. Delta has had all aisle access since 2014 on their widebody fleet whereas UA cant even get the ball rolling on their first go around. A very small percentage of their international fleet has direct aisle access.

As for DL's 777 cabin refiits to the D1 suites, it was only first announced in May of last year. 7 months later, the first one is in mods. Not bad and a heck of a lot better than the time frame you provided above. No one knew where the suites would go outside of the 350.

https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2017/05/1 ... y-comfort/

Replacing newer, more advanced seats like on UA's 787s while retaining the oldest, worst seats like on UA's 777s and 763s would be DL's play too. For example, DL's A330 plays longer, more important roles than the 767 in their fleet. But the A330 had newer, more modern seats, and so they were logically placed behind the 767s.

You're not correct on your DL 777 timeline. DL announced 777 retrofits when the new seat was announced in August 2016. 19 months later we're still waiting for the first to emerge.

https://news.delta.com/worlds-first-all ... -delta-one

MSPNWA, you are correct and thanks for correcting me. However, 5 planes wiith Polaris seats since the announcement is pretty terrible and it still doesn't diminish the rest of the Polaris failures. While I comfortably relax in my Delta One Suite, I will be thinking of you scrunched up in that UA 787 with the 2-2-2 configuration

MSPNWA · Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:00 am

jumbojet wrote:
MSPNWA, you are correct and thanks for correcting me. However, 5 planes wiith Polaris seats since the announcement is pretty terrible. The vast majority of the UA fleet still being 2-2-2 in BE is a joke. While I comfortably relax in my Delta One Suite, I will be thinking of you scrunched up in that UA 787 with the 2-2-2 configuration.

By what measure is 5 "terrible"? Yours? Those that are always critical of UA? Let's use some objective competitor's metrics as a measuring stick. AA announced their 767 and 777 lie-flat programs in May 2012. The 777 didn't start for a couple years and thanks to complications had only four planes done by the summer of 2015. The 767 program was half-baked and also didn't start to roll out for almost three years and was only for half the fleet. UA is well ahead of AA's measures.

DL? Let's look back at this gem:
https://news.delta.com/delta-first-us-c ... ss-class-0

Very long lead time before retrofits start. 767 lie-flats first announced in 2006 and to be done by 2010? That implies the 763, which didn't even start until 2011 and wasn't done until early 2014. Even the details of the 764 weren't announced until early 2008 and didn't start until spring 2009. Their entire retrofit program started in earnest in 2009 and took 5 years. By DL's measure UA is also doing well.

So what measure are you using?

The fact that some don't even count the new planes delivered to UA with the new seats is a sign of their lack of objectivity. In reality it was like a retrofit program. UA was retiring the 747 fleet at the same time. It was like rolling a retrofit schedule--one in, one out at a time. The 77Ws didn't bring slack to the schedule for mass modifications. So the most proper way is to say UA has added 19 planes in the 21 months since announcement and 15 months since the first plane with 3 currently in mods (with one 772 getting an important STC to allow an acceleration of the 772 program) and more new deliveries almost ready to start again (77Ws, with 78Js to follow later this year).

Good for you that you're flying in a rare D1 "suite". If you've been a loyal DL flyer in the past decade, you probably deserve a better a product after living with recliners and angle-flats all those years when DL's competitors had lie-flats.

77H · Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:00 am

jumbojet wrote:
UA Polaris has not matched what the original promise was.

Just give it up man. You’ve had multiple people call out your assertions with facts, including employees from your beloved DL and somehow you’re still clinging to the idea that UA has managed much worse than AA or DL when reality is, it hasn’t. Yes it could have been managed better but they are not as far off the mark as you make it out to be.

77H

millionsofmiles · Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:15 am

At this rate, by the time the Polaris hard product such as seats and lounges are completed:

-AA and DL will have already gone onto their next generation of hard products, and
-UA's soft product will have already been rolled back to pre-Polaris levels.

VC10er · Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:07 pm

On a somewhat related topic- overall hasn’t United been doing other things, other than “Polaris” that have significantly improved things? My view is very much through an EWR lens, but the new United Clubs IMHO are very nicely designed, like SF and Boston, etc. The new counters at check-in and the gates (the white and chrome ones), and the gate areas (at least at EWR) with new seating and tables with very cool looking, new lighting and power stations, new seats etc, the new GS check-in at EWR is gorgeous, the new EWR conveyor systems at security, some of the new narrow body interiors (ex: the new First Class seat) aren’t they ALL a part of United’s improvements?
They hired some of the best design agencies like Priestman/Goode to do some beautiful work and approved it (which is the important part) and are spending to install them all beautifully...do these hard products not all add up to a better experience?
I am not always flying international Polaris, I still fly domestically often and I see and feel United changing for the better, still patchy but changing.
Naturally these are my opinions on design, and I am a very visual person so I love seeing those changes: from the white computer monitors to the airplane window shaped mirrors in the bathrooms of a new United Club, even their app.
All I’m saying is it’s not JUST Polaris that is being executed to make everything shiny, new and modern. These changes which are much broader are never discussed, yet must be costly?
And I really feel a big improvement interfacing with UA staff, from phone to check-in to FAs. If there is internal strife I don’t pick up on it as I did during the darkest days of the merger. (Not to forget a lot of 787s, 77Ws and more coming like the MAX’s and 787-10s)
I OFTEN find myself in a 752 in a bed seat on a domestic leg...and they don’t cost THAT much more than E+ so if I see it’s a bed seat I will spring $200 RT for it depending on the length or time of the flight.
Yes, United still has a long way to go after the merger debacle, but I see and feel the momentum building.

jetero · Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:26 pm

Sounds like UA is definitely done for.

keesje · Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:32 pm

I'm not overly impressed by parking the cabin full of privacy dividers.

Not cozy, comfy, friendly or pampered feeling at all. More office 1998.

Apparently designer influence / house style beat customer feed-back.

http://cdn8.bigcommerce.com/s-7s4j6/images/stencil/1024x1024/products/2468/2705/dof-workstation-photo-3__90129.1472399577.jpg?c=2

O530CarrisPT · Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:30 pm

keesje wrote:
I'm not overly impressed by parking the cabin full of privacy dividers.

Not cozy, comfy, friendly or pampered feeling at all. More office 1998.

Apparently designer influence / house style beat customer feed-back.

http://cdn8.bigcommerce.com/s-7s4j6/images/stencil/1024x1024/products/2468/2705/dof-workstation-photo-3__90129.1472399577.jpg?c=2

I agree. More style than substance - that's why UA's Polaris fails to surpass the DL's new Delta One, in terms of hard business products of the major US3 carriers (which still is far from the product offered by either SQ, CX, LH, NH, JL or even QR's Q-Suite - the only US airline which approaches of that level is B6's Mint). UA could have used the same business class seats which LX (5-abreast in a 777) or CI/CX (4-abreast in a A350XWB/777) use for their new business product.

VC10er · Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:37 pm

So strange this thread is!

mozart · Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:24 pm

And I was slowly starting to consider to flying them again... better not. Still a subpar product.

glbltrvlr · Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:49 am

I'm United 1K with 3-4 Asia trips, and one or 2 EU trips a year, and I have to say the Polaris seat is exactly what I want. I've no interest in looking across the cabin. Just a comfortable seat, plenty of storage, and privacy.

reggiet · Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:03 am

Austin787 wrote:
Slow retrofits, are not unique to UA. AA was also slow to roll out its 1-2-1 business seats. AA announced its new 77W J seat in 2012 (also heavily marketed) and didn't start retrofitting its 772s and 763s until late 2014 and took until mid-2017 to complete the retrofits. DL announced its Business suites in late 2016 to much fanfare, and as of now only the A350s have it. DL starts retrofitting the 777s with the business suites later this year and it will take until 2020 for the 777 retrofits to be completed, assuming no delays. In other words, it will take DL 4 years from the announcement of its business suites for 25% of its widebodies to have the new J seat. Outside the US, Emirates, Qatar, Singapore, etc also heavily market their new business seats and then take many years to retrofit their fleets.

As people have already posted, retrofitting an aircraft is complex and time consuming with certifications required.

DL has already started their 777 fleet D1 suite retrofits a month or so ago. I believe the LRs will be completed first followed by the 333s and finally the 764s.

GoSharks · Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:19 am

keesje wrote:
I'm not overly impressed by parking the cabin full of privacy dividers.

Not cozy, comfy, friendly or pampered feeling at all. More office 1998.

Apparently designer influence / house style beat customer feed-back.

http://cdn8.bigcommerce.com/s-7s4j6/images/stencil/1024x1024/products/2468/2705/dof-workstation-photo-3__90129.1472399577.jpg?c=2

As a United 1k with 5 TPACs on the 77w in J, I love the dividers. Feels really private and cozy.

VC10er · Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:18 am

It is a perfectly designed seat. Are there more luxurious J seats out there, yes, but I find Polaris (especially the forward facing window) to be all I need or want. The bed, which is MOST crucial for me as a business flier, is about the flattest and most comfortable I’ve ever experienced. The seat and cabin (lighting) are very attractive so the atmosphere is very comforting. The food quality varies but I’ve never thought any airline food to be fabulous like a good restaurant- it is airplane food. It’s fine. I need to be comfortable, to work, watch a movie and sleep. Job done.
I’m certain Delta is great in all those regards also perhaps Delta One is a bit better on some small measures...but not enough for me to switch.
I agree that the old Diamond seats on United are not good - mostly because of climb overs and lack of privacy, elbow room.
But it’s a good seat for sleeping, but Polaris is even better. The only “promise” I ever heard was from a speech from Oscar who said Polaris was designed for the best night’s sleep- I would say they delivered on that one aspect.
I totally understand people have different preferences- but the “hating” of any airline (the poisonous writing about United) that I don’t understand- United has never been “as bad” as the detractors make it out to be, other than the bad s#|t than sometimes happens on any airline. As if bad crap ONLY happens on UA and never on another airline. (Although Tower stands out as the worst in aviation history!)
All my true horror stories are spread across a number of different airlines- in fact my all-time worst horrors happened long ago - once on Continental (during her heyday) and Lufthansa which was so bad I cannot even tell it. But I still happily fly Lufthansa today.

MSPNWA · Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:58 pm

reggiet wrote:
DL has already started their 777 fleet D1 suite retrofits a month or so ago. I believe the LRs will be completed first followed by the 333s and finally the 764s.

The first is an ER (N863DA), and it arrived in SIN on Feb 17th. There's no official plans yet for the 764 or A330.

janders · Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:51 pm

Well here are the "enhancements" effective May 1st in corporate speak per memo:

POLARIS SERVICE ENHANCEMENTS
Frequently Asked Questions

1. When do the service updates go into effect?
A: The service updates are effective May 1, 2018, on all long-haul international flights.

2. Why are we making changes to our United Polaris® service?
A: Customers have positively received our United Polaris lounge, and this year we are opening more United Polaris lounges beginning this summer in San Francisco, Houston and New York/Newark and in the fall, Los Angeles. As we continue to add more lounges, we want to take into account the feedback that customers have given us — they’ve emphasized their desire to rest and relax during their journey, especially onboard. The updates to the service flow will allow us to continue providing a premium product with high-quality food, wine, amenities and more, but it’ll be delivered in a more efficient way.

3. What is the new international United Polaris meal service flow?
A: The meal service flow for both first and business class will be the same:
Pre-departure
• Pre-poured sparkling wine, orange juice and water offered from a silver tray, with other beverages available upon request.
Main meal service
• Hot towels
• Linen placement
• Pre-meal beverage cart
• Appetizer and salad cart
• Bread and beverage refills
• Entrées
• Bread and beverage refills
• Dessert and pre-plated cheese cart
• Individual water bottles with hang tags
Mid-flight service (when applicable)
• Display mid-flight snacks on console, self-service unit, fold-down trays or galley countertop.
• Heat and serve hot on-demand items (when applicable) upon customer request.
Pre-arrival service
• Hot towels
• Pre-arrival tray setup with entrée and choice of beverage
• Breads and pastries

4. Will we be able to offer other pre-departure beverages?
A: Yes, upon customer request fulfill other pre-departure beverages in accordance with each departure country’s pre-departure liquor procedures. Refer to the Flight Attendant Policies and Procedures Manual to determine if you are allowed to open beverage carts/carriers that contain alcohol on the ground.

5. Is there still a chocolate offered during pre-departure?
A: Pre-departure chocolates/dessert will be catered on the pre-arrival tray instead for customers to enjoy during or after their flight.

6. What’s changing with the Bloody Mary and wine specialty beverage carts?
A: Wines and Bloody Marys will continue to be available upon request, but the dedicated cart service will change. This was a common flight attendant suggestion for improvement. A new branded cart cover is being sourced to improve presentation in the aisle and will be available shortly after launch.

7. Can we still offer wine tastings?
A: Absolutely. Although the wine arches with the 3 tastings will not be boarded, we can continue to honor customers’ requests to sample select wines.

8. What about the United Polaris first class soup and salad course?
A: The salad and appetizer will be delivered at the same time on a tray setup, instead of having a soup course.

9. What about the turndown service?
A: We will continue to offer the turndown service upon request.

10. Will Express Dining continue to be offered?
A: Yes, Express Dining will continue to be offered and can be requested and delivered at any point during the flight.

11. Will we continue to offer the mini desserts and fruit and cheese?
A: The mini desserts will continue to be offered from the three-tier cart with the signature ice cream service. In addition, pre-plated cheese will be added to the dessert cart. To make room for the fruit and cheese on the dessert cart, the specialty tea box will be removed from the cart, although specialty teas will continue to be available from the galley.

12. Are there any updates to the mid-flight and pre-arrival services?
A: There will be a few updates to both the mid-flight and pre-arrival service.
Mid-flight service (when available) – While we’ll no longer have formal presentation of mid-flight snacks, snack provisioning levels will remain the same and will continue to be displayed near the galley as is done today. Hang tags advising the customers that mid-flight snacks are available will be added to the individual bottle waters distributed after the main meal service. Hot snack items, when available, will also be delivered upon request.
Pre-arrival service – We’re removing tray table linens to reduce trips through the aisle. The tray itself will continue to have a linen liner. The pre-departure chocolate/dessert will be catered on the pre-arrival tray for customers to enjoy during or after the flight.

13. Will there be any new service items introduced to support the new United Polaris service?
A: Yes, there are a few new elements that will be introduced, including:
Cart covers – Similar to some of our competitors, branded cart covers for both the half and full carts will be boarded for use in the aisle on both the beverage and meal tray carts. Cart covers will be available shortly after launch.
Hang tags – To be placed on individual bottle waters at the end of the main meal service to advise customers that mid-flight snacks are available.

14. Will we be changing the domestic meal service procedures to align with the new United Polaris service (e.g. pre-poured pre-departure beverages)?
A: We will continue listening to the feedback of our customers and our flight attendants and will adjust our processes where necessary to deliver the best service for our customers.

UPlog · Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:28 pm

Yes everything is an Enhancement in United corporate mumbo jumbo

flyguy84 · Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:48 pm

UPlog wrote:
Yes everything is an Enhancement in United corporate mumbo jumbo

Eh. The service takes entirely too long as it is. They needed to trim it down.

TransWorldOne · Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:11 pm

flyguy84 wrote:
UPlog wrote:
Yes everything is an Enhancement in United corporate mumbo jumbo

Eh. The service takes entirely too long as it is. They needed to trim it down.

According to the memo above, express service will be available where one can receive everything at once as a single course. Many customers enjoy having a nice, multi-course dinner service that isn't rushed. Others want to eat quickly and then rest or work. The express option allows the customer to choose the experience they want.

codc10 · Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:32 pm

O530CarrisPT wrote:
keesje wrote:
I'm not overly impressed by parking the cabin full of privacy dividers.

Not cozy, comfy, friendly or pampered feeling at all. More office 1998.

Apparently designer influence / house style beat customer feed-back.

http://cdn8.bigcommerce.com/s-7s4j6/images/stencil/1024x1024/products/2468/2705/dof-workstation-photo-3__90129.1472399577.jpg?c=2

I agree. More style than substance - that's why UA's Polaris fails to surpass the DL's new Delta One, in terms of hard business products of the major US3 carriers (which still is far from the product offered by either SQ, CX, LH, NH, JL or even QR's Q-Suite - the only US airline which approaches of that level is B6's Mint). UA could have used the same business class seats which LX (5-abreast in a 777) or CI/CX (4-abreast in a A350XWB/777) use for their new business product.

It would have been terrible to see UA go with the LX-style (Thompson Vantage) seat instead of the Polaris seat; having flown extensively in the former and once in the latter, IMO the 767 Polaris product beats it handily. I've flown multiple times in the 77W and caught the Polaris 767 EWR-AMS a few weeks back, and am pleased with the seat. In particular, I find it to be the best 767 business class product out there. It's not ideal for couples traveling together (solved in the 777/787/A350) but it's a spacious, private seat with adequate storage and good sleep comfort. I think it's a winner... not the best overall business class seat available by any stretch, but a significant improvement over existing UA cabin products and strongly competitive with reverse herringbone and other comparable J cabins.

Colors and decor are a matter of taste, so I'm more concerned with the hard aspects of the product.

OA412 · Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:03 pm

janders wrote:
Are there any updates to the mid-flight and pre-arrival services?
A: There will be a few updates to both the mid-flight and pre-arrival service.
Mid-flight service (when available) – While we’ll no longer have formal presentation of mid-flight snacks, snack provisioning levels will remain the same and will continue to be displayed near the galley as is done today. Hang tags advising the customers that mid-flight snacks are available will be added to the individual bottle waters distributed after the main meal service. Hot snack items, when available, will also be delivered upon request.
Pre-arrival service – We’re removing tray table linens to reduce trips through the aisle. The tray itself will continue to have a linen liner. The pre-departure chocolate/dessert will be catered on the pre-arrival tray for customers to enjoy during or after the flight.

As described, the hang tags sound cheap and tacky, and informing customers via hang tag that mid-flight snacks are available gives the impression that staff are too lazy to inform passengers of something so simple.

janders wrote:
Cart covers – Similar to some of our competitors, branded cart covers for both the half and full carts will be boarded for use in the aisle on both the beverage and meal tray carts. Cart covers will be available shortly after launch.

This sort of half-assed approach seems to be a hallmark at UA. Obviously cart covers are nothing in the grand scheme, but still, the fact that they'll be available "shortly after launch" gives the impression that they weren't completely prepared to roll out these "enhancements." It could very well be a vendor issue, of course, but this is a recurring theme with UA, and just not something you see consistently from either AA or DL.

flyguy84 · Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:25 pm

OA412 wrote:
janders wrote:
Are there any updates to the mid-flight and pre-arrival services?
A: There will be a few updates to both the mid-flight and pre-arrival service.
Mid-flight service (when available) – While we’ll no longer have formal presentation of mid-flight snacks, snack provisioning levels will remain the same and will continue to be displayed near the galley as is done today. Hang tags advising the customers that mid-flight snacks are available will be added to the individual bottle waters distributed after the main meal service. Hot snack items, when available, will also be delivered upon request.
Pre-arrival service – We’re removing tray table linens to reduce trips through the aisle. The tray itself will continue to have a linen liner. The pre-departure chocolate/dessert will be catered on the pre-arrival tray for customers to enjoy during or after the flight.

As described, the hang tags sound cheap and tacky, and informing customers via hang tag that mid-flight snacks are available gives the impression that staff are too lazy to inform passengers of something so simple.
janders wrote:
Cart covers – Similar to some of our competitors, branded cart covers for both the half and full carts will be boarded for use in the aisle on both the beverage and meal tray carts. Cart covers will be available shortly after launch.

This sort of half-assed approach seems to be a hallmark at UA. Obviously cart covers are nothing in the grand scheme, but still, the fact that they'll be available "shortly after launch" gives the impression that they weren't completely prepared to roll out these "enhancements." It could very well be a vendor issue, of course, but this is a recurring theme with UA, and just not something you see consistently from either AA or DL.

Midight snacks have always been printed and announced in the menu. The crew does not disturb passengers to offer the service. They can help themselves at anytime. On longer flights where a hot snack is available, some crews do offer it to passengers who may be awake. As far as cart covers, they aren’t really a necessity. Just seems like an enhancement. Not sure what the big deal is.

747-600X · Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:44 pm

Not sure whether this has been posted yet, but this is the link to United's Polaris "progress tracker", showing how many aircraft/lounges have been updated/created. While the rate of aircraft updates seems average, I'm a bit taken aback by the slowness of updating airport lounges.

http://view.ceros.com/united/polaris-tr ... ktop-4/p/1

jumbojet · Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:33 pm

United clearly still struggles to get it right. They still cant get the basics down like business class meal service. Then there is:

767 Polaris in business, only good if your a solo traveler. If your traveling with a partner, there couldn't be a worse product so doesnt matter how comfy the seat is.

77W. The only bright spot as they come delivered with the new seat.

777. At the current rate, Trump will be finishing term #2 by the time they are all done. It blows me away that if I board a UA 777 flight today and want to take it to China, chances are the BE layout will be 2-4-2!!!

787-8/9. Lets not even go there. A beautiful new plane with a 1990's style product.

To top it all off, United continues to deceive people by advertising all their international flights as Polaris. So when I buy that ticket in business class to China and wind up on a 777 with a 2-4-2, I'll be really ticked off.

GoSharks · Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:00 pm

jumbojet wrote:
787-8/9. Lets not even go there. A beautiful new plane with a 1990's style product.

Come on. This is plainly pushing an agenda. There is absolutely nothing uncompetitive about 2-2-2; many airlines offer this as their J seating. LH and EK being just two major examples with contemporary products.

incitatus · Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:18 pm

glbltrvlr wrote:
I'm United 1K with 3-4 Asia trips, and one or 2 EU trips a year, and I have to say the Polaris seat is exactly what I want. I've no interest in looking across the cabin. Just a comfortable seat, plenty of storage, and privacy.

Those that don't like the dividers can always fly coach and get cozy with the other passengers!

airzona11 · Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:39 pm

keesje wrote:
I'm not overly impressed by parking the cabin full of privacy dividers.

Not cozy, comfy, friendly or pampered feeling at all. More office 1998.

Apparently designer influence / house style beat customer feed-back.

http://cdn8.bigcommerce.com/s-7s4j6/images/stencil/1024x1024/products/2468/2705/dof-workstation-photo-3__90129.1472399577.jpg?c=2

DL / QR and others are all moving there tho for business class.

airzona11 · Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:41 pm

jumbojet wrote:
United clearly still struggles to get it right. They still cant get the basics down like business class meal service. Then there is:

767 Polaris in business, only good if your a solo traveler. If your traveling with a partner, there couldn't be a worse product so doesnt matter how comfy the seat is.

77W. The only bright spot as they come delivered with the new seat.

777. At the current rate, Trump will be finishing term #2 by the time they are all done. It blows me away that if I board a UA 777 flight today and want to take it to China, chances are the BE layout will be 2-4-2!!!

787-8/9. Lets not even go there. A beautiful new plane with a 1990's style product.

To top it all off, United continues to deceive people by advertising all their international flights as Polaris. So when I buy that ticket in business class to China and wind up on a 777 with a 2-4-2, I'll be really ticked off.

You seem to spend a lot of money flying United yet have pure disdain for them. Find a new hobby.

Austin787 · Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:26 am

jumbojet wrote:
787-8/9. Lets not even go there. A beautiful new plane with a 1990's style product.

Those 787 J seats were introduced in 2009 - not a 1990's style product. Many airlines use that seat today.

VC10er · Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:55 am

Great to read that United is listening and improving on an already great Premium Product. I always take the time to feedback via the survey, and the positive changes are palpable

Some people may not fly United enough to know

codc10 · Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:47 am

767 Polaris in business, only good if your a solo traveler. If your traveling with a partner, there couldn't be a worse product so doesnt matter how comfy the seat is.

Most of the original herringbone seats are equally private from partners when traveling. Even some reverse herringbone designs are similarly isolating. Same goes for ANA, or the suite-style products of JAL/KE new J.

787-8/9. Lets not even go there. A beautiful new plane with a 1990's style product.

I wish such a seat were available in the 90s.

glbltrvlr · Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:50 am

I'm typing this while flying back from PEK to SFO on a 77W with the Polaris seats and I have to say the people badmouthing the design are clearly those who enjoy playing the cranky critic. As I've posted before, I'm 1K with 3-4 Asia flights and 1 or 2 Europe flights a year, and this seat is perfect. The slide out tray works really well for my laptop. The side table is great for placing the laptop during food service. The storage is fantastic. There's a protected shelf under the video screen that holds my passport, wallet and cell phones. I automatically put the blanket, pillow and mattress in the overhead, then discovered the double deck space in the foot well had plenty of room. The storage cupboard with door above the side table works perfect for water bottles. As I have a window seat, the side pocket along the fuselage provides even more storage, although I'm not sure I'd ever need it. Finally, person complaining about the restricted slight lines has clearly never flown in the cabin. Sitting normally, I can see across the entire cabin - the side walls are just high enough to provide complete privacy for my laptop and the video screen. I will concede that couples flying together won't be able to hold hands or talk without one person standing in the aisle or seat passage. Frankly, my SO sees that as a major positive.

Basically, I can't wait until the 78s get this and am looking forward to my upcoming UK flight in the fall to check out the 767 conversion.

Oh - one thing. Please reserve the angle seats when you book your next flight. I want a straight window seat when I book.

The little passageway to the seat provides even more privacy.

glbltrvlr · Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:16 am

glbltrvlr wrote:
I'm typing this while flying back from PEK to SFO on a 77W with the Polaris seats and I have to say the people badmouthing the design are clearly those who enjoy playing the cranky critic. As I've posted before, I'm 1K with 3-4 Asia flights and 1 or 2 Europe flights a year, and this seat is perfect. The slide out tray works really well for my laptop. The side table is great for placing the laptop during food service. The storage is fantastic. There's a protected shelf under the video screen that holds my passport, wallet and cell phones. I automatically put the blanket, pillow and mattress in the overhead, then discovered the double deck space in the foot well had plenty of room. The storage cupboard with door above the side table works perfect for water bottles. As I have a window seat, the side pocket along the fuselage provides even more storage, although I'm not sure I'd ever need it. Finally, person complaining about the restricted slight lines has clearly never flown in the cabin. Sitting normally, I can see across the entire cabin - the side walls are just high enough to provide complete privacy for my laptop and the video screen. I will concede that couples flying together won't be able to hold hands or talk without one person standing in the aisle or seat passage. Frankly, my SO sees that as a major positive.

Basically, I can't wait until the 78s get this and am looking forward to my upcoming UK flight in the fall to check out the 767 conversion.

Oh - one thing. Please reserve the angle seats when you book your next flight. I want a straight window seat when I book. The little passageway to the seat provides even more privacy.

Edit - I see there is a drop partition for the center seats that almost makes a private mini-cabin for couples. Previous comment withdrawn for 77Ws. 767s have a narrower cabin.

glbltrvlr · Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:23 am

*dup*

O530CarrisPT · Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:55 am

codc10 wrote:

It would have been terrible to see UA go with the LX-style (Thompson Vantage) seat instead of the Polaris seat; having flown extensively in the former and once in the latter, IMO the 767 Polaris product beats it handily. I've flown multiple times in the 77W and caught the Polaris 767 EWR-AMS a few weeks back, and am pleased with the seat. In particular, I find it to be the best 767 business class product out there. It's not ideal for couples traveling together (solved in the 777/787/A350) but it's a spacious, private seat with adequate storage and good sleep comfort. I think it's a winner... not the best overall business class seat available by any stretch, but a significant improvement over existing UA cabin products and strongly competitive with reverse herringbone and other comparable J cabins.

Colors and decor are a matter of taste, so I'm more concerned with the hard aspects of the product.

So, in that case I think a seat similar to Air France's new business seats for their 777 (4-abreast seating) would be better for UA, in my opinion (although I'd rather see UA use a product like QR's QSuite, but that is out of question). It could be less stylish, but I think it could match the requirements of UA for business class seats which gives considerable comfort and adequate storage for business travellers which chose to fly with the airline.

BC77008 · Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:12 pm

jumbojet wrote:
United clearly still struggles to get it right. They still cant get the basics down like business class meal service. Then there is:

767 Polaris in business, only good if your a solo traveler. If your traveling with a partner, there couldn't be a worse product so doesnt matter how comfy the seat is.

...
To top it all off, United continues to deceive people by advertising all their international flights as Polaris. So when I buy that ticket in business class to China and wind up on a 777 with a 2-4-2, I'll be really ticked off.

You aren’t happy with the all-aisle access offering of the Polaris 767 because it would suck for people traveling together and then you chastise a 777 with a 2-4-2 offering so people can travel together. So which is it?

SFOtoORD · Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:34 pm

BC77008 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
United clearly still struggles to get it right. They still cant get the basics down like business class meal service. Then there is:

767 Polaris in business, only good if your a solo traveler. If your traveling with a partner, there couldn't be a worse product so doesnt matter how comfy the seat is.

...
To top it all off, United continues to deceive people by advertising all their international flights as Polaris. So when I buy that ticket in business class to China and wind up on a 777 with a 2-4-2, I'll be really ticked off.

You aren’t happy with the all-aisle access offering of the Polaris 767 because it would suck for people traveling together and then you chastise a 777 with a 2-4-2 offering so people can travel together. So which is it?

Don’t poke holes in his story. It’s hard work being such a dedicated forum troll.

jetero · Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:42 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
BC77008 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
United clearly still struggles to get it right. They still cant get the basics down like business class meal service. Then there is:

767 Polaris in business, only good if your a solo traveler. If your traveling with a partner, there couldn't be a worse product so doesnt matter how comfy the seat is.

...
To top it all off, United continues to deceive people by advertising all their international flights as Polaris. So when I buy that ticket in business class to China and wind up on a 777 with a 2-4-2, I'll be really ticked off.

You aren’t happy with the all-aisle access offering of the Polaris 767 because it would suck for people traveling together and then you chastise a 777 with a 2-4-2 offering so people can travel together. So which is it?

Don’t poke holes in his story. It’s hard work being such a dedicated forum troll.

It sounds like he actually has a good thing going with UA--he's able to get on the plane and tell them where to go. Now that's status!

jumbojet wrote:
It blows me away that if I board a UA 777 flight today and want to take it to China, chances are the BE layout will be 2-4-2!!!

GBNorman · Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:09 pm

From a "newbie" around here, Traveling ORD-MUC-ORD (or should I say KORD-EDDM-KORD?) last August, I booked Business aboard a three class (77Q I think) and selected Seat 6A (Forward facing; view for flightseeing). About a day before leaving, I received an email saying they had changed my seat to 5A account a change of aircraft and a link to change the seat if I wanted another. When I saw the configuration, they changed my seat so I would have facing directly ahead and not angled towards the aisle as 6A would be.

For the flight, I got to ORD in time to check out the new Polaris Lounge. WOW.

I boarded the brand new 777-300ER (77W, again, I think) and took my 5A seat. Now is THIS ever an upgrade; no one having to face Aft (get vertigo from such). Now I found the quite Senior FA's that can bid overseas were in the same fix as I. They didn't know how to operate all the "playthings" nor did they know whether not a personal bag had to be stowed in the rack for take off (one said one and another said another). Finally I had to ask; "Dear, what kind of training did they give you for this aircraft?". "They showed a ten minute video during our pre-flight briefing" (I did not ask what training did they give you in evacuation protocol?).

But I go away thinking that Polaris is a superior product. I'm solo in this life so the privacy afforded was indeed appreciated; just as it was on the return flight.

But obviously United is in no rush to "roll out" the product system wide. Of interest, I have an FA friend with 35 years, and it seems as if she and her "gal pals" all decide where in the world they want to go during the next bid cycle. As of the last time I saw her during February, she had yet to work a 77W, maybe by the next time I see her.

Now the negative regarding the 77W; the gal I noted had told me she had a friend (younger than her) who would be working that outbound flight but in Coach and after meal service, go on back and say hi. That was my first knowledge of the 3-4-3 seating configuration back in "the Gulag". When the "Hi" was over in the Aft Galley, I started to return, and as I did bad turbulence with not much advance notice. I grabbed the first open seat and bolted up. Three minutes back there was enough, as I think those seats are tighter, width and pitch, than are those found in an intercity bus.

I going back during this August, but the flights are set to be 777-222's (77Q) both ways. After having Polaris last year, it will be a downgrade to be back with "same old same old". For those who travel Coach, I guess they should be thankful they will only be in "Medium Security" instead of "The Gulag".

VC10er · Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:14 pm

Don’t forget the brushed chrome handle bar and beautiful entry way and bulkhead design: aesthetics are important and the Polaris cabin is soothing and modern. I love it and don’t require more on any length flight- mostly because the bed, when totally flat, is one of the best for sleeping.

VC10er · Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:45 pm

VC10er wrote:
Don’t forget the brushed chrome handle bar and beautiful entry way and bulkhead design: aesthetics are important and the Polaris cabin is soothing and modern. I love it and don’t require more on any length flight- mostly because the bed, when totally flat, is one of the best for sleeping.

Oh, I forgot, I must always mention the cushioned eyeshades. Has anyone noticed them? Amazing- now sleep at home with them.

millionsofmiles · Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:08 am

GBNorman wrote:
From a "newbie" around here, Traveling ORD-MUC-ORD (or should I say KORD-EDDM-KORD?) last August, I booked Business aboard a three class (77Q I think) and selected Seat 6A (Forward facing; view for flightseeing). About a day before leaving, I received an email saying they had changed my seat to 5A account a change of aircraft and a link to change the seat if I wanted another. When I saw the configuration, they changed my seat so I would have facing directly ahead and not angled towards the aisle as 6A would be.

For the flight, I got to ORD in time to check out the new Polaris Lounge. WOW.

I boarded the brand new 777-300ER (77W, again, I think) and took my 5A seat. Now is THIS ever an upgrade; no one having to face Aft (get vertigo from such). Now I found the quite Senior FA's that can bid overseas were in the same fix as I. They didn't know how to operate all the "playthings" nor did they know whether not a personal bag had to be stowed in the rack for take off (one said one and another said another). Finally I had to ask; "Dear, what kind of training did they give you for this aircraft?". "They showed a ten minute video during our pre-flight briefing" (I did not ask what training did they give you in evacuation protocol?).

But I go away thinking that Polaris is a superior product. I'm solo in this life so the privacy afforded was indeed appreciated; just as it was on the return flight.

But obviously United is in no rush to "roll out" the product system wide. Of interest, I have an FA friend with 35 years, and it seems as if she and her "gal pals" all decide where in the world they want to go during the next bid cycle. As of the last time I saw her during February, she had yet to work a 77W, maybe by the next time I see her.

Now the negative regarding the 77W; the gal I noted had told me she had a friend (younger than her) who would be working that outbound flight but in Coach and after meal service, go on back and say hi. That was my first knowledge of the 3-4-3 seating configuration back in "the Gulag". When the "Hi" was over in the Aft Galley, I started to return, and as I did bad turbulence with not much advance notice. I grabbed the first open seat and bolted up. Three minutes back there was enough, as I think those seats are tighter, width and pitch, than are those found in an intercity bus.

I going back during this August, but the flights are set to be 777-222's (77Q) both ways. After having Polaris last year, it will be a downgrade to be back with "same old same old". For those who travel Coach, I guess they should be thankful they will only be in "Medium Security" instead of "The Gulag".

You questioned these flight attendants' ability to function in an emergency on an unfamiliar aircraft. I don't work for Unjted, but when I qualified on the 777-300, I was trained and drilled in not only the differences in that aircraft versus the 777-200, but I had to complete door drills on actual simulators, including the overwing. The 777-300 doors are identical in operation to those on the 777-200, except for those over the wing which do not contain a slide/raft. The 777-300 overwing slide comes out of an external housing in the fuselage when the door is opened in the armed mode, and an overwing ramp deploys in conjunction with the deployment of the slide. Our evacuation procedures are slightly different at the overwing. None of us leave 777-300 training without testing to proficiency on the doors.

As far as the details related to the specific configuration of the 777-300 interior furnishings, a flight attendant's initial flight on an unfamiliar aircraft is always somewhat of a learning experience as most of us learn by doing...but this is no reflection on our ability to function in an emergency.

I don't know the details of United's training program but I am very sure your flight attendants would have been able to get your butt out in a hurry if the you-know-what hit the fan.

VC10er · Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:39 pm

I’m in Polaris “First” tonight on an old 3 Class 772, GRU to EWR. Will I get PJ’s and bed cushion? Curious what the differences will be aside from the seat. Thanks

millionsofmiles · Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:55 am

janders wrote:
Well here are the "enhancements" effective May 1st in corporate speak per memo:

POLARIS SERVICE ENHANCEMENTS
Frequently Asked Questions

1. When do the service updates go into effect?
A: The service updates are effective May 1, 2018, on all long-haul international flights.

2. Why are we making changes to our United Polaris® service?
A: Customers have positively received our United Polaris lounge, and this year we are opening more United Polaris lounges beginning this summer in San Francisco, Houston and New York/Newark and in the fall, Los Angeles. As we continue to add more lounges, we want to take into account the feedback that customers have given us — they’ve emphasized their desire to rest and relax during their journey, especially onboard. The updates to the service flow will allow us to continue providing a premium product with high-quality food, wine, amenities and more, but it’ll be delivered in a more efficient way.

3. What is the new international United Polaris meal service flow?
A: The meal service flow for both first and business class will be the same:
Pre-departure
• Pre-poured sparkling wine, orange juice and water offered from a silver tray, with other beverages available upon request.
Main meal service
• Hot towels
• Linen placement
• Pre-meal beverage cart
• Appetizer and salad cart
• Bread and beverage refills
• Entrées
• Bread and beverage refills
• Dessert and pre-plated cheese cart
• Individual water bottles with hang tags
Mid-flight service (when applicable)
• Display mid-flight snacks on console, self-service unit, fold-down trays or galley countertop.
• Heat and serve hot on-demand items (when applicable) upon customer request.
Pre-arrival service
• Hot towels
• Pre-arrival tray setup with entrée and choice of beverage
• Breads and pastries

4. Will we be able to offer other pre-departure beverages?
A: Yes, upon customer request fulfill other pre-departure beverages in accordance with each departure country’s pre-departure liquor procedures. Refer to the Flight Attendant Policies and Procedures Manual to determine if you are allowed to open beverage carts/carriers that contain alcohol on the ground.

5. Is there still a chocolate offered during pre-departure?
A: Pre-departure chocolates/dessert will be catered on the pre-arrival tray instead for customers to enjoy during or after their flight.

6. What’s changing with the Bloody Mary and wine specialty beverage carts?
A: Wines and Bloody Marys will continue to be available upon request, but the dedicated cart service will change. This was a common flight attendant suggestion for improvement. A new branded cart cover is being sourced to improve presentation in the aisle and will be available shortly after launch.

7. Can we still offer wine tastings?
A: Absolutely. Although the wine arches with the 3 tastings will not be boarded, we can continue to honor customers’ requests to sample select wines.

8. What about the United Polaris first class soup and salad course?
A: The salad and appetizer will be delivered at the same time on a tray setup, instead of having a soup course.

9. What about the turndown service?
A: We will continue to offer the turndown service upon request.

10. Will Express Dining continue to be offered?
A: Yes, Express Dining will continue to be offered and can be requested and delivered at any point during the flight.

11. Will we continue to offer the mini desserts and fruit and cheese?
A: The mini desserts will continue to be offered from the three-tier cart with the signature ice cream service. In addition, pre-plated cheese will be added to the dessert cart. To make room for the fruit and cheese on the dessert cart, the specialty tea box will be removed from the cart, although specialty teas will continue to be available from the galley.

12. Are there any updates to the mid-flight and pre-arrival services?
A: There will be a few updates to both the mid-flight and pre-arrival service.
Mid-flight service (when available) – While we’ll no longer have formal presentation of mid-flight snacks, snack provisioning levels will remain the same and will continue to be displayed near the galley as is done today. Hang tags advising the customers that mid-flight snacks are available will be added to the individual bottle waters distributed after the main meal service. Hot snack items, when available, will also be delivered upon request.
Pre-arrival service – We’re removing tray table linens to reduce trips through the aisle. The tray itself will continue to have a linen liner. The pre-departure chocolate/dessert will be catered on the pre-arrival tray for customers to enjoy during or after the flight.

13. Will there be any new service items introduced to support the new United Polaris service?
A: Yes, there are a few new elements that will be introduced, including:
Cart covers – Similar to some of our competitors, branded cart covers for both the half and full carts will be boarded for use in the aisle on both the beverage and meal tray carts. Cart covers will be available shortly after launch.
Hang tags – To be placed on individual bottle waters at the end of the main meal service to advise customers that mid-flight snacks are available.

14. Will we be changing the domestic meal service procedures to align with the new United Polaris service (e.g. pre-poured pre-departure beverages)?
A: We will continue listening to the feedback of our customers and our flight attendants and will adjust our processes where necessary to deliver the best service for our customers.

Are there any remaining substantial differences between the now-modified Polaris service (above) and the pre-Polaris service?

VC10er · Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:11 pm

BTW: no PJ’s in Polaris First from São Paulo to Newark. I think there should have been because there isn’t much difference for First other than the color of the blanket and amenity kit.
It will probably be my last ride in that seat (which I have loved for years) and they did make the bed for me. It was also “one of” the best night’s sleep on a plane ever with no sleep aid.
I’m looking forward to flying the 772 in Polaris, but as the wonderful FA I had said “it’s virtually impossible to deliver a true First Class experience when there are 50 seats, but we will try our best and make it a great business class”
Other than that, it was a perfect flight.

davescj · Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:41 am

millionsofmiles wrote:

As far as the details related to the specific configuration of the 777-300 interior furnishings, a flight attendant's initial flight on an unfamiliar aircraft is always somewhat of a learning experience as most of us learn by doing...but this is no reflection on our ability to function in an emergency.

This is one reason I really do read the safety card. I especially do this when flying in a country where I don't know the language. Lately I've been on all DL B717s it seems. I keep hoping for a 738....but...well, a DL A330 seem to be the next wide body. At least it's comfy.

VC10er wrote:
I’m looking forward to flying the 772 in Polaris, but as the wonderful FA I had said “it’s virtually impossible to deliver a true First Class experience when there are 50 seats, but we will try our best and make it a great business class”
Other than that, it was a perfect flight.

I've not flown UA internationally in a long time. As to the seats, I suggest it would depend on the FA to pax ratio. In DL1, I've (usually) seen about 1-9 (or so). That seemed like a good ratio for pace of service. The meals were well paced, wines /water full, what more do you want?

VC10er · Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:16 am

Frankly I’m fine without First Class. I can’t afford it internationally. I like Polaris very much so far. On the 77W I didn’t count the ratio of FA’s to seat count- but indeed the extra courses did drag out the meal service- so I’m happy UA identified that as an issue to fix.
The least important thing to me anyway is the food. I don’t choose an airline based on the food. I just want a very comfortable seat for sleeping and all aisle access, storage and elbow room. So Polaris or anything similar is all I need. Nice ambiance is always welcome- and they ticked that box nicely.
My singular point was: that United still has about a year or so left where they will have a good handful of the old First Class. IF it’s simply not worth it to provide the same F service they did 20 years ago, and basically just give you the seat with the same “everything” from business- they should just give those seats to GS, Certificates and miles (and not too many miles) until their gone for good and not try and pass it off anymore like it’s a true First Class. The only thing about them that’s good is the seat itself. That alone doesn’t make it First Class.

402679 · Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:23 am

This month I'll take the Eva Air SFO to TPE in Business Class. I was looking at the lounge options in SFO, specifically the Star Alliance ones when I've noticed that it will be more than one year since the renovations at the "International United Club"have began. :O
What are they up tp? A BER airport inside the lounge? A LH First Class Terminal?

This blog post in from April 17:
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/04/23/united-club-san-francisco-review/

So the Eva Air and the SilverKris lounges ahave been gone since October 17.

A whole year has gone by and still the lounge is not completed...

jetero · Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:17 pm

davescj wrote:
I've not flown UA internationally in a long time. As to the seats, I suggest it would depend on the FA to pax ratio. In DL1, I've (usually) seen about 1-9 (or so). That seemed like a good ratio for pace of service. The meals were well paced, wines /water full, what more do you want?

I'd be interested in knowing this ratio by airline.

glbltrvlr · Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:07 pm

geoshina wrote:
This month I'll take the Eva Air SFO to TPE in Business Class. I was looking at the lounge options in SFO, specifically the Star Alliance ones when I've noticed that it will be more than one year since the renovations at the "International United Club"have began.

If you are spending hours at SFO, the walk over to the new United lounge in the F rotunda isn't a huge burden. I would avoid the older United lounge near gate 71. It's kind of a strange trek up an elevator, then down a long curved corridor to a dark, windowless room.

Even if the Polaris lounge was finished, I don't think alliance tickets get access. Once the Polaris club opens, I think the plan is to renovate the temporary Polaris club (former GS Lounge) by gate 98. Not expecting that to happen in my lifetime.

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