Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
dbo861 wrote:Any idea when this year? The article says they were originally scheduled to start in April 2018, but that’s right around the corner. Regardless, this is great news!
VV wrote:If required, I think Bombardier should reschedule deliveries to some other airlines and put Delta as a priority.
B777LRF wrote:VV wrote:If required, I think Bombardier should reschedule deliveries to some other airlines and put Delta as a priority.
Messing with one or more customers to please another is hardly good business! Besides, why would BBD be in a hurry to get Delta's aircraft out the door when, presumably, they're making a loss on each one?
VV wrote:How many C Series have been delivered so far this year?
MIflyer12 wrote:IMHO, it's interesting that Bombardier's CEO is very talky in the 'ATW' piece with a publication date of 16 Feb. while the day before, Delta issues a press release that says, in short, 'We're still in discussions.'
http://news.delta.com/delta-determining ... n-decision
More coordination of message seems typical.
raylee67 wrote:Actually the delivery of CSeries planes have been notoriously slow. It's not the first time Bombardier is manufacturing a plane. I can't imagine the CSeries is that much difficult to make than a CRJ 1000. Besides P&W that is dragging its feet, is there other hold-ups?
Dalmd88 wrote:raylee67 wrote:Actually the delivery of CSeries planes have been notoriously slow. It's not the first time Bombardier is manufacturing a plane. I can't imagine the CSeries is that much difficult to make than a CRJ 1000. Besides P&W that is dragging its feet, is there other hold-ups?
For DL there is one other hold up. Rumor is The DL interior group is having problems with the interior configuration. They were never going to be ready for the April deliveries. I don't know any specifics, just heard it around the TOC.
raylee67 wrote:Actually the delivery of CSeries planes have been notoriously slow. It's not the first time Bombardier is manufacturing a plane. I can't imagine the CSeries is that much difficult to make than a CRJ 1000. Besides P&W that is dragging its feet, is there other hold-ups?
VV wrote:What's going on? Does anyone know about it around here?
Dalmd88 wrote:raylee67 wrote:Actually the delivery of CSeries planes have been notoriously slow. It's not the first time Bombardier is manufacturing a plane. I can't imagine the CSeries is that much difficult to make than a CRJ 1000. Besides P&W that is dragging its feet, is there other hold-ups?
For DL there is one other hold up. Rumor is The DL interior group is having problems with the interior configuration. They were never going to be ready for the April deliveries. I don't know any specifics, just heard it around the TOC.
777Mech wrote:Dalmd88 wrote:raylee67 wrote:Actually the delivery of CSeries planes have been notoriously slow. It's not the first time Bombardier is manufacturing a plane. I can't imagine the CSeries is that much difficult to make than a CRJ 1000. Besides P&W that is dragging its feet, is there other hold-ups?
For DL there is one other hold up. Rumor is The DL interior group is having problems with the interior configuration. They were never going to be ready for the April deliveries. I don't know any specifics, just heard it around the TOC.
Right. They're having issues with the wireless IFE certification if I'm not mistaken.
ExMilitaryEng wrote:VV wrote:What's going on? Does anyone know about it around here?
VV, as an ex BBD employee, I'm sure you still have some contacts in Mirabel. Therefore, you know very well that there were some supplier issues.
As we all know, the prime traffic jam ("critical path") has been the engines (PW).
The lack of suficient engine shipments probably did hide other suppliers issues, like some interiors sets... (BBD had to send his own employees onsite to QA kits before authorizing shipping out to YMX).
You also know that the current Mirabel FAL configuration is not optimal (understatement here) as it's only half finished. The FAL "second half" has not been constructed (BBD had to save $$$ two years ago). Some unused CRJ space is beeing used for that function. It's really inefficient and that would have been the bottle neck - if not for PW.
In my opinion, before spending $300M in a 2nd FAL in MOB, I would at least complete that first one in YMX... (Anyways, BBD revenues has improved considerably since)
I'm sure you can entertain us with some other crunchy stories...
VV wrote:The target for last year was 30 deliveries. Then finally only 17 were delivered. Logically there are now about 13 airframes ready to ship.
But, there have not been many acceptance flights.
deltal1011man wrote:777Mech wrote:Dalmd88 wrote:For DL there is one other hold up. Rumor is The DL interior group is having problems with the interior configuration. They were never going to be ready for the April deliveries. I don't know any specifics, just heard it around the TOC.
Right. They're having issues with the wireless IFE certification if I'm not mistaken.
Yep. I have heard the FAA isn't a fan.
FWIW the same idea was going to be on the 787 and FAA wouldn't bite.
I don't really understand it. From my understanding the CS PTVs are basically iPads fixed in the seat hooked up wireless linked to a server on the aircraft from GoGo. No different than me bringing my iPad on the plane and linking it Delta Studio. Could have it wrong though.
VV wrote:I have no intimate knowledge on this one, but I would believe that Mobile will be a lower cost manufacturing site (versus Wichita). One of the reasons could be the Airbus world class supply chain/logistics already set up (and growing) over there. (I do know that Wichita is the plan B)....the motivation about building a second final assembly line in Mobile is a little bit intriguing, especially when we know Bombardier has already an industrial footprint in Wichita, Kansas, USA.
VV wrote:When finances went south a few years ago, BBD had to identify what was essential to save the program.Something still intrigues me a lot about the C Series delivery stream. Last year delivery target was 30 to 35 units. Then the target went down to 20-25 toward the end of 2017...
ExMilitaryEng wrote:I have no intimate knowledge on this one, but I would believe that Mobile will be a lower cost manufacturing site (versus Wichita). One of the reasons could be the Airbus world class supply chain/logistics already set up (and growing) over there. (I do know that Wichita is the plan B).
ExMilitaryEng wrote:They still currently have a superbly competent product improvement team that works tirelessly to save weight, lower manufacturing costs and further improve quality / performance of the CSeries. Amazingly, they successfully keep improving the product right now, and a lot more will be accomplished in the next months/years.
KarelXWB wrote:VV wrote:The target for last year was 30 deliveries. Then finally only 17 were delivered. Logically there are now about 13 airframes ready to ship.
But, there have not been many acceptance flights.
It's not that black and white.
Last year Bombardier was supposed to increase CSeries production rate to 4 aircraft per month, but kept it at 2 per month during 2017. As such, there are no 13 airframes "ready to ship".
VV wrote:KarelXWB wrote:VV wrote:The target for last year was 30 deliveries. Then finally only 17 were delivered. Logically there are now about 13 airframes ready to ship.
But, there have not been many acceptance flights.
It's not that black and white.
Last year Bombardier was supposed to increase CSeries production rate to 4 aircraft per month, but kept it at 2 per month during 2017. As such, there are no 13 airframes "ready to ship".
Sorry I made a mistake when quoting 13 airframes. I subtracted 17 from 30, in reality it should have been around 5 aircraft ready or almost ready to deliver in January 2018. It corresponds to the latest target announced in November 2017 minus the actual delivery over the year, that is 22 minus 17.
http://www.industryweek.com/operations/ ... ine-delays
The reality is that there has been only ONE delivery until 16 February 2018.
VV wrote:That may well be for many items. Still, if those "unfinished work" items mean that we'll end up with an even better aircraft, then all the better.(continuous improvement) Is it just emptying the hopper of unfinished work?
SteelChair wrote:How about 1 a month starting this fall, EIS 3 months after first delivery with 3 planes in service, go to 1.5/month 6-8 months in, and 2/month 6-8 months later. Then slowly ramp up fleet for the next 7-10 years, building to 350 airplanes (more than the current total orderbook) including CS100, 300, and 500 versions? CY2021-2024 could see 5/month just for Delta. Hey this is an enthusiast website right? Thats what i would do if was running DL.
jmt18325 wrote:They're not scheduled to get any 300s.
okie73 wrote:jmt18325 wrote:They're not scheduled to get any 300s.
Scheduled is the key word. After a certain number of aircraft Delta has the option to switch to the 300.
LawAndOrder wrote:deltal1011man wrote:777Mech wrote:
Right. They're having issues with the wireless IFE certification if I'm not mistaken.
Yep. I have heard the FAA isn't a fan.
FWIW the same idea was going to be on the 787 and FAA wouldn't bite.
I don't really understand it. From my understanding the CS PTVs are basically iPads fixed in the seat hooked up wireless linked to a server on the aircraft from GoGo. No different than me bringing my iPad on the plane and linking it Delta Studio. Could have it wrong though.
I am pretty sure the FAA is not the hold up for any potential IFE delay. I am sure details will come see if at all. Things are in line to deliver.
deltal1011man wrote:LawAndOrder wrote:deltal1011man wrote:Yep. I have heard the FAA isn't a fan.
FWIW the same idea was going to be on the 787 and FAA wouldn't bite.
I don't really understand it. From my understanding the CS PTVs are basically iPads fixed in the seat hooked up wireless linked to a server on the aircraft from GoGo. No different than me bringing my iPad on the plane and linking it Delta Studio. Could have it wrong though.
I am pretty sure the FAA is not the hold up for any potential IFE delay. I am sure details will come see if at all. Things are in line to deliver.
because why exactly?
MIflyer12 wrote:SteelChair wrote:How about 1 a month starting this fall, EIS 3 months after first delivery with 3 planes in service, go to 1.5/month 6-8 months in, and 2/month 6-8 months later. Then slowly ramp up fleet for the next 7-10 years, building to 350 airplanes (more than the current total orderbook) including CS100, 300, and 500 versions? CY2021-2024 could see 5/month just for Delta. Hey this is an enthusiast website right? Thats what i would do if was running DL.
A carrier would REALLY want to be sure of capacity, quality, management stability, and longevity up and down the supplier network before committing $8 Billion or so to a fleet type. Airbus and Boeing have shown they're worthy. Do you think conservative Delta could sign off on Bombardier as supplier of a third to 40% of the mainline fleet? I surely don't.
deltal1011man wrote:777Mech wrote:Dalmd88 wrote:For DL there is one other hold up. Rumor is The DL interior group is having problems with the interior configuration. They were never going to be ready for the April deliveries. I don't know any specifics, just heard it around the TOC.
Right. They're having issues with the wireless IFE certification if I'm not mistaken.
Yep. I have heard the FAA isn't a fan.
FWIW the same idea was going to be on the 787 and FAA wouldn't bite.
I don't really understand it. From my understanding the CS PTVs are basically iPads fixed in the seat hooked up wireless linked to a server on the aircraft from GoGo. No different than me bringing my iPad on the plane and linking it Delta Studio. Could have it wrong though.
sadiqutp wrote:In Delta's latest 10-K filing with the SEC, the airline showed that it will take 15 CSeries CS100s in 2018, 25 in 2019, and 16 in 2020
https://twitter.com/TheAviationBeat/sta ... 6075935745
sadiqutp wrote:In Delta's latest 10-K filing with the SEC, the airline showed that it will take 15 CSeries CS100s in 2018, 25 in 2019, and 16 in 2020
https://twitter.com/TheAviationBeat/sta ... 6075935745
NateGreat wrote:sadiqutp wrote:In Delta's latest 10-K filing with the SEC, the airline showed that it will take 15 CSeries CS100s in 2018, 25 in 2019, and 16 in 2020
https://twitter.com/TheAviationBeat/sta ... 6075935745
So, the A330neo won’t come until 2020 now?
777Mech wrote:NateGreat wrote:sadiqutp wrote:In Delta's latest 10-K filing with the SEC, the airline showed that it will take 15 CSeries CS100s in 2018, 25 in 2019, and 16 in 2020
https://twitter.com/TheAviationBeat/sta ... 6075935745
So, the A330neo won’t come until 2020 now?
First A33N will be on property in February '19 last check.
777Mech wrote:NateGreat wrote:sadiqutp wrote:In Delta's latest 10-K filing with the SEC, the airline showed that it will take 15 CSeries CS100s in 2018, 25 in 2019, and 16 in 2020
https://twitter.com/TheAviationBeat/sta ... 6075935745
So, the A330neo won’t come until 2020 now?
First A33N will be on property in February '19 last check.
lightsaber wrote:Any update to the deliveries of CS100? We won't see 15 in 2018 by my estimate...
Lightsaber