Willis Walsh of IAG has stated that the low cost carrier Level could be launched from Regional UK Airports (Cardiff, Birmingham, Edinburgh, Manchester etc) but only if the UK Goverment abolishes Air Passenger Duty.

Link to the story posted below for anyone whose interested.

https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... k-regions/

Ben

The best chance of that happening in the UK is/was in Scotland where APD implementation was devolved to the Scottish Government in recent times. And whilst it looked set to be abolished, unfortunately environmental concerns raised mainly by the Scottish Green Party, who the ruling SNP frequently require to vote with them to get other legislative policy through, mean it's been kicked into the long (green) grass for the time being. Presumably a UK wide debate will ensue and Scottish airports will lose any advantage they might have add over nearby English regionals like MAN and NCL to name but two.

I can't be sure if this is not just posturing by IAG but I do think some kind of change is needed to help my local (BHX) and other regional UK airports.

As APD is a nice little earner for the Government it is difficult to see it dropped completely unless a band new tax was implemented.

To help long-haul for the likes of BHX, CWL, BRS, NCL, LTN. LBA, LPL in the short-term just drop long-haul APD for airports reporting 20 Million passengers or less and if they go over make it two consecutive years at 20 million before APD is charged and use either the calendar year end or financial year end and not a rolling figure. Manchester and Stansted would probably want something that helps them but their long-haul is pretty good.

BHX, EDI. GLA, BRS, BFS and NCL have several examples where zero APD on long-haul might have saved a service. I am only saying might have as there are often multiple factors why a route fails and of course none more so than no amount of reasonable subsidy would make it financial viable. This would also see off claims of any potential unfair advantage Scottish Airports might gain if long-haul APD gets abolished north of the border.

JannEejit wrote:

The best chance of that happening in the UK is/was in Scotland where APD implementation was devolved to the Scottish Government in recent times. And whilst it looked set to be abolished, unfortunately environmental concerns raised mainly by the Scottish Green Party, who the ruling SNP frequently require to vote with them to get other legislative policy through, mean it's been kicked into the long (green) grass for the time being. Presumably a UK wide debate will ensue and Scottish airports will lose any advantage they might have add over nearby English regionals like MAN and NCL to name but two.

And what about the English regionals such as MAN and NCL losing any advantage if/when Scotland abolished APD?

sevenair wrote:

JannEejit wrote:

The best chance of that happening in the UK is/was in Scotland where APD implementation was devolved to the Scottish Government in recent times. And whilst it looked set to be abolished, unfortunately environmental concerns raised mainly by the Scottish Green Party, who the ruling SNP frequently require to vote with them to get other legislative policy through, mean it's been kicked into the long (green) grass for the time being. Presumably a UK wide debate will ensue and Scottish airports will lose any advantage they might have add over nearby English regionals like MAN and NCL to name but two.

And what about the English regionals such as MAN and NCL losing any advantage if/when Scotland abolished APD?

Perhaps residents of northern Northumberland and Cumbria may head up to EDI/GLA respectively if there is a something much cheaper. However, there is little overlap.

I'd be very surprised if IAG launched any UK regional services if APD was abolished. They want it to make their LHR and LGW ops more profitable.
The only way i could see APD reduction or being devolved to Wales being a bonus is if it can be used to attract new airlines from Europe and maybe one of the US3 and encourage the current airlines to continue to expand.

Themotionman wrote:

sevenair wrote:

JannEejit wrote:

The best chance of that happening in the UK is/was in Scotland where APD implementation was devolved to the Scottish Government in recent times. And whilst it looked set to be abolished, unfortunately environmental concerns raised mainly by the Scottish Green Party, who the ruling SNP frequently require to vote with them to get other legislative policy through, mean it's been kicked into the long (green) grass for the time being. Presumably a UK wide debate will ensue and Scottish airports will lose any advantage they might have add over nearby English regionals like MAN and NCL to name but two.

And what about the English regionals such as MAN and NCL losing any advantage if/when Scotland abolished APD?

Perhaps residents of northern Northumberland and Cumbria may head up to EDI/GLA respectively if there is a something much cheaper. However, there is little overlap.

The many hundreds of Scots holiday makers catchng the Trans Pennine train service to MAN from Glasgow Central Station every day may beg to differ ? A better variety of affordable long haul options may help to stem this daily exodus from Scottish airports that historically have higher fares than their English counterparts. MAN has a vacuum effect on airports all over the north/midlands areas of England too of course. It may require the careful placing of APD abolition towards non hub type airports of which MAN is certainly one.

JannEejit wrote:

Themotionman wrote:

sevenair wrote:

And what about the English regionals such as MAN and NCL losing any advantage if/when Scotland abolished APD?

Perhaps residents of northern Northumberland and Cumbria may head up to EDI/GLA respectively if there is a something much cheaper. However, there is little overlap.

The many hundreds of Scots holiday makers catchng the Trans Pennine train service to MAN from Glasgow Central Station every day may beg to differ ? A better variety of affordable long haul options may help to stem this daily exodus from Scottish airports that historically have higher fares than their English counterparts. MAN has a vacuum effect on airports all over the north/midlands areas of England too of course. It may require the careful placing of APD abolition towards non hub type airports of which MAN is certainly one.

Which is essentially sucking money out of the Scottish economy as most of those passengers would buy something at the airport, mostly food and drink and parking, and contribute to the local economy.

JannEejit wrote:

Themotionman wrote:

sevenair wrote:

And what about the English regionals such as MAN and NCL losing any advantage if/when Scotland abolished APD?

Perhaps residents of northern Northumberland and Cumbria may head up to EDI/GLA respectively if there is a something much cheaper. However, there is little overlap.

The many hundreds of Scots holiday makers catchng the Trans Pennine train service to MAN from Glasgow Central Station every day may beg to differ ? A better variety of affordable long haul options may help to stem this daily exodus from Scottish airports that historically have higher fares than their English counterparts. MAN has a vacuum effect on airports all over the north/midlands areas of England too of course. It may require the careful placing of APD abolition towards non hub type airports of which MAN is certainly one.

APD is not a means of government market intervention to reallocate demand across the U.K.... it won't be selectively removed in England, it's all or nothing. Of course I'm the long run anything is possible.

IAG simply want to make more profit and pay less tax.

sevenair wrote:

And what about the English regionals such as MAN and NCL losing any advantage if/when Scotland abolished APD?

The same thing can already be done now, only instead of Scotland you could fill in Ireland or France or the Netherlands. It's an easy trick to avoid paying the APD, take a short haul flight out of the UK to a place where there's no APD and then self-transfer to a long haul flight. That can easily save a whole lot of money.

Exactly 48 hours in Dublin , no APD, highly competitive business airfares ( often routing via the UK haha ) - you can even break your trip in the uk again ... saves a fortune

DobboDobbo wrote:

JannEejit wrote:

Themotionman wrote:

Perhaps residents of northern Northumberland and Cumbria may head up to EDI/GLA respectively if there is a something much cheaper. However, there is little overlap.

The many hundreds of Scots holiday makers catchng the Trans Pennine train service to MAN from Glasgow Central Station every day may beg to differ ? A better variety of affordable long haul options may help to stem this daily exodus from Scottish airports that historically have higher fares than their English counterparts. MAN has a vacuum effect on airports all over the north/midlands areas of England too of course. It may require the careful placing of APD abolition towards non hub type airports of which MAN is certainly one.

APD is not a means of government market intervention to reallocate demand across the U.K.... it won't be selectively removed in England, it's all or nothing. Of course I'm the long run anything is possible.

IAG simply want to make more profit and pay less tax.

Forgive my ignorance, but isn't the APD passed through to the pax?

Essentially the government see APD as a nice little earner as well as a fig leaf on green matters so IAG can whistle in the wind.

sevenair wrote:

JannEejit wrote:

The best chance of that happening in the UK is/was in Scotland where APD implementation was devolved to the Scottish Government in recent times. And whilst it looked set to be abolished, unfortunately environmental concerns raised mainly by the Scottish Green Party, who the ruling SNP frequently require to vote with them to get other legislative policy through, mean it's been kicked into the long (green) grass for the time being. Presumably a UK wide debate will ensue and Scottish airports will lose any advantage they might have add over nearby English regionals like MAN and NCL to name but two.

And what about the English regionals such as MAN and NCL losing any advantage if/when Scotland abolished APD?

And why does Wales get something like £2,000 less funding per school student than over in England? Sadly devolution means there is always going to be once country that doesn’t have it fair.

I can’t see APD ever going. The UK (or more specifically London) has one of the most premium air travel markets in the world and the government can rake in lots of revenue.

BHXRunway15 wrote:

BHX, EDI. GLA, BRS, BFS and NCL have several examples where zero APD on long-haul might have saved a service. I am only saying might have as there are often multiple factors why a route fails and of course none more so than no amount of reasonable subsidy would make it financial viable. This would also see off claims of any potential unfair advantage Scottish Airports might gain if long-haul APD gets abolished north of the border.

Isn't BFS already exempt from APD for Longhaul flights to avoid Pax traveling from Dublin instead?

Perhaps a good way to help regional airports develop is to have the APD on LHR flights only. I certainly feel it should be abolished on UK domestic flights.

Bhoy wrote:

Isn't BFS already exempt from APD for Longhaul flights to avoid Pax traveling from Dublin instead?

Not exempt, no, but the rate on a transatlantic flight is the same as that for a flight to an EU destination. Nevertheless, that still wasn't enough to save the Continental (aka United) flight to EWR when a further subsidy was ruled illegal by the EU. IAG aside, this does illustrate how marginal some of these services are.

Willis Walsh's motives are transparent.

Has the national UK government now or in the past shown any interest in boosting passenger numbers from regional airports ?

TedToToe wrote:

Bhoy wrote:

Isn't BFS already exempt from APD for Longhaul flights to avoid Pax traveling from Dublin instead?

Not exempt, no, but the rate on a transatlantic flight is the same as that for a flight to an EU destination. Nevertheless, that still wasn't enough to save the Continental (aka United) flight to EWR when a further subsidy was ruled illegal by the EU. IAG aside, this does illustrate how marginal some of these services are.

Wouldn't a Level service be more competing with the likes of Virgin Atlantic, ex-BFS, who fly 747s to Florida (as opposed to cannibalizing connecting BHD - LHR - America traffic)?

Also, although United couldn't work EWR - BFS, there are still flights to North America - for example, Norwegian to PVD and SWF. Perhaps an LCC like Level is what BFS needs?

Cheers,

C.

planemanofnz wrote:

Wouldn't a Level service be more competing with the likes of Virgin Atlantic, ex-BFS, who fly 747s to Florida (as opposed to cannibalizing connecting BHD - LHR - America traffic)?

Also, although United couldn't work EWR - BFS, there are still flights to North America - for example, Norwegian to PVD and SWF. Perhaps an LCC like Level is what BFS needs?

Cheers,

C.

VS' summer only flights from the regions (i.e. BFS and GLA) isn't really a competitor to UA flights to EWR or even potential Level flights, as the VS ones are really just charters for tour operators to MCO for The Mouse, with some additional seats being sold directly.
UA operates their Flights from the regions (predominantly from EWR) as allowing Pax to go pretty much anywhere in the US via their East Coast Hubs, and going by Level's destinations ex BCN, I'd think they'd be more likely to go for big Cities (i.e. California, maybe JFK or ORD if they can sell connections with AA too) as point to point ops rather than concentrate on the Charter traffic.

Bricktop wrote:

Forgive my ignorance, but isn't the APD passed through to the pax?

It is and that makes the tickets more expensive. Airlines want to avoid that because it's pricing them out of the market. They want their tickets to be as cheap as possible, but the APD makes that UK-based airlines always have a disadvantage over their competitors from other countries.

PatrickZ80 wrote:

sevenair wrote:

And what about the English regionals such as MAN and NCL losing any advantage if/when Scotland abolished APD?

The same thing can already be done now, only instead of Scotland you could fill in Ireland or France or the Netherlands. It's an easy trick to avoid paying the APD, take a short haul flight out of the UK to a place where there's no APD and then self-transfer to a long haul flight. That can easily save a whole lot of money.

And such a tax ivasion is a criminal offence,if your transfer is within 24 hours of leaving the UK self transfer or not , but hay ho

rutankrd, just to clear this up. If somebody flies from LHR to DUB in Y on one ticket, then flies DUB-LHR-SIN in J on another ticket. If the LHR-DUB and DUB-LHR sectors are less than 24 hours apart, this is tax evasion and not just tax avoidance?

PatrickZ80 wrote:

Bricktop wrote:

Forgive my ignorance, but isn't the APD passed through to the pax?

It is and that makes the tickets more expensive. Airlines want to avoid that because it's pricing them out of the market. They want their tickets to be as cheap as possible, but the APD makes that UK-based airlines always have a disadvantage over their competitors from other countries.

That implies APD only applies to UK based airlines. Wow. How did such a stupid tax get passed?

No in law it’s tax evasion and the revenue authorities can prosecute for the offence and a fine be imposed on being found guilty.

Tax avoidance is reducing your tax liability via legal means - doggy off shore investments , shell companies , film investments etc...

rutankrd wrote:

And such a tax ivasion is a criminal offence,if your transfer is within 24 hours of leaving the UK self transfer or not , but hay ho

How so?

The APD rules are complex but not at all hidden - if you've got a few hours they're explained here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/rates-and-a ... enger-duty

You will find there the exemption applying to Scottish Highland and Islands airports (No APD for passengers flying from any airport in the Scottish H&I region to any destination), as well as the rules for defining connecting flights.

From my reading, flying from an APD-included airport to a Band A destination outside the UK and then self-connecting to long-haul flight on a different ticket is not evasion, but legitimate and legal avoidance.

Travelling from an APD-excluded airport makes the whole journey APD-exempt as well.

TedToToe wrote:

Bhoy wrote:

Isn't BFS already exempt from APD for Longhaul flights to avoid Pax traveling from Dublin instead?

Not exempt, no, but the rate on a transatlantic flight is the same as that for a flight to an EU destination.

That may have been the case in the past, but the current arrangement is now that flights from NI are APD-exempt when;
- the passenger's journey begins from any airport in Northern Ireland
- the first part of the journey is to a destination outside Band A
- that part of the journey is direct and doesn't connect elsewhere beforehand

Meaning basically that any direct transatlantic from NI is fully exempt from APD. However flights to Band A destinations still attract APD, and as do indirect Band B flights (so Belfast > Other UK > Band B will be liable to the full duty).

Bricktop wrote:

That implies APD only applies to UK based airlines. Wow. How did such a stupid tax get passed?

It applies to all passengers departing from a UK airport who do not meet certain exemption criteria. Like many other taxes and charges though, it is collected by the airline at the time of the passenger booking and then remitted to HMRC after the flight has flown (which is why even on non-refundable tickets you can usually claim a refund of such taxes as by not flying you've not become liable to pay them).

This sounds quite logical, as APD disproportionately affects regional airports the hardest. In Germany, the introduction of APD made pax numbers fall sharply at regional airports in the 2-3 years following its introduction, and smaller airports who had the usual set of summer holiday flights lost many of them.

Aviation is a low margin industry. This means airlines cannot assume APD and have to pass it on to pax. Where the market cannot absorb that extra cost, the flight is dropped...

XAM2175 wrote:

From my reading, flying from an APD-included airport to a Band A destination outside the UK and then self-connecting to long-haul flight on a different ticket is not evasion, but legitimate and legal avoidance.

Thank you, that would be my interpretation as well.

Regional airports: so anything not London

It’s an awful tax.

A tax that is calculated based on the distance you travel and wether you have more than 40 inches of leg room.