Airlinepilot129 wrote:

NZ321 wrote:

LAX772LR wrote:

Not sure what they gain from DEN that the combo of LAX+IAH can't grant... other than performance issues on the westbound. :-/

DEN will gain them seamless access to the Rockies for winter and summer sports. Many prime spots do not have direct flights from LAX, SFO or IAH. But whether this in itself justifies the service I'm not sure. Perhaps 3 x weekly?

LAX, SFO, and IAH all have multiple flights across the Rockies?

Airlinepilot129 wrote:

United also regularly touts being the best choice for a Skiers vacation because they serve the most cities in Colorado and the surrounding area to include Gunnison, Steamboat Springs, Vail, Aspen, and Montrose from non-DEN hubs.

Airlinepilot129 wrote:

NZ321 wrote:

LAX772LR wrote:

Not sure what they gain from DEN that the combo of LAX+IAH can't grant... other than performance issues on the westbound. :-/

DEN will gain them seamless access to the Rockies for winter and summer sports. Many prime spots do not have direct flights from LAX, SFO or IAH. But whether this in itself justifies the service I'm not sure. Perhaps 3 x weekly?

LAX, SFO, and IAH all have multiple flights across the Rockies? United also regularly touts being the best choice for a Skiers vacation because they serve the most cities in Colorado and the surrounding area to include Gunnison, Steamboat Springs, Vail, Aspen, and Montrose from non-DEN hubs.

AAvgeek744 wrote:

Airlinepilot129 wrote:

NZ321 wrote:

DEN will gain them seamless access to the Rockies for winter and summer sports. Many prime spots do not have direct flights from LAX, SFO or IAH. But whether this in itself justifies the service I'm not sure. Perhaps 3 x weekly?

LAX, SFO, and IAH all have multiple flights across the Rockies? United also regularly touts being the best choice for a Skiers vacation because they serve the most cities in Colorado and the surrounding area to include Gunnison, Steamboat Springs, Vail, Aspen, and Montrose from non-DEN hubs.

Why would someone fly from New Zealand to Colorado / Denver to ski? The have rather decent skiing around Queenstown. Just because the seasons are opposite doesn't change anything. Many alpine skiers actually train in New Zealand during the northern summer.

VirginFlyer wrote:

AAvgeek744 wrote:

Airlinepilot129 wrote:

LAX, SFO, and IAH all have multiple flights across the Rockies? United also regularly touts being the best choice for a Skiers vacation because they serve the most cities in Colorado and the surrounding area to include Gunnison, Steamboat Springs, Vail, Aspen, and Montrose from non-DEN hubs.

Why would someone fly from New Zealand to Colorado / Denver to ski? The have rather decent skiing around Queenstown. Just because the seasons are opposite doesn't change anything. Many alpine skiers actually train in New Zealand during the northern summer.

I think you have answered your own question. If, as a New Zealander, I want to go skiing in January, Queenstown (or Canterbury, or Ruapehu) aren't a goer; I'm going to have to head to the Northern Hemisphere. Colorado's ski resorts have a reputation here for good value prices for quality skiing. Likewise if, as an American, I want to go skiing in July, I'm going to have to head to the Southern Hemisphere. Of course the real question is whether there is sufficient demand for a year round service, or even a seasonal one, as opposed to offering connections through LAX/SFO. I wouldn't be holding my breath.

V/F

AAvgeek744 wrote:

Airlinepilot129 wrote:

NZ321 wrote:

DEN will gain them seamless access to the Rockies for winter and summer sports. Many prime spots do not have direct flights from LAX, SFO or IAH. But whether this in itself justifies the service I'm not sure. Perhaps 3 x weekly?

LAX, SFO, and IAH all have multiple flights across the Rockies? United also regularly touts being the best choice for a Skiers vacation because they serve the most cities in Colorado and the surrounding area to include Gunnison, Steamboat Springs, Vail, Aspen, and Montrose from non-DEN hubs.

Why would someone fly from New Zealand to Colorado / Denver to ski? The have rather decent skiing around Queenstown. Just because the seasons are opposite doesn't change anything. Many alpine skiers actually train in New Zealand during the northern summer.

AAvgeek744 wrote:

Why would someone fly from New Zealand to Colorado / Denver to ski? The have rather decent skiing around Queenstown..

LAXdude1023 wrote:

Starting this route for ski traffic is beyond idiotic. There would have to be more to it then that.

USAOZ wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:

Starting this route for ski traffic is beyond idiotic. There would have to be more to it then that.

Nope.

A lot of ski traffic is very high yield especially from Australia .Many hnw individuals don't csre what it costs to get to Colorado from PER, ADL, MEL, SYD, OOL, BNE& CNS with only one stop ie. at AKL with no terminsl change & avoid Lax they'd love it

NTLDaz wrote:

QF flies SYD - YVR in the NW largely for ski traffic. This is despite Australia having a multitude of ski resorts and NZ just being a few hours flight away.

It's not just NA either - there are now lot's of Australian's skiing in Japan as well. Skiing in Australia is ridiculously expensive for a variety of reasons

It's the above that makes me think a seasonal DEN service to not be completely bonkers. Any AKL - DEN service would tap into Australian connections.

Not saying it will happen though.

caverunner17 wrote:

USAOZ wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:

Starting this route for ski traffic is beyond idiotic. There would have to be more to it then that.

Nope.

A lot of ski traffic is very high yield especially from Australia .Many hnw individuals don't csre what it costs to get to Colorado from PER, ADL, MEL, SYD, OOL, BNE& CNS with only one stop ie. at AKL with no terminsl change & avoid Lax they'd love it

Agreed. I've been on the lift twice this year with vacationing kiwi's. I wouldn't have guessed it was a big thing, but they said they come yearly.

OA940 wrote:

Sorry, but I just can't see the demand. ORD would make a lot more sense.

zkncj wrote:

OA940 wrote:

Sorry, but I just can't see the demand. ORD would make a lot more sense.

It could simply be an smoke screen from NZ before they launch ORD, they have in the past started there own rumours around new routes to attract attention and the best deals from the airport companies / local authorities.

With AA entering the AKL-LAX market sessional (during the peak session) NZ is out to protect its turf, even that means launching routes that don't seem that make sense. If AA leaves the market, don't be supprized if NZ leaves some of these new talked routes.

dia77 wrote:

Denver wouldn’t be a total surprise for NZ.

dia77 wrote:

Without any sources, this rumor doesn’t have any substance. However, Denver wouldn’t be a total surprise for NZ. Comparing DEN and YVR - Colorado and Denver both have a larger population than BC and Vancouver respectively. Colorado’s GDP (~$300B USD) is significantly higher than BC (~$200B USD) and overall ski traffic is also larger in Colorado than BC. That being said, Vancouver is more important to Canada as its largest western city than Denver is to the US.

USAOZ wrote:

Just heard rumour that nz will fly akl den nonstop from end of year codeshsring with ua but no idea of frequency

usmcav8tor wrote:

USAOZ wrote:

Just heard rumour that nz will fly akl den nonstop from end of year codeshsring with ua but no idea of frequency

Out of curiosity, does anyone know the group of people the hope to serve on this route?

Thenoflyzone wrote:

NTLDaz wrote:

QF flies SYD - YVR in the NW largely for ski traffic. This is despite Australia having a multitude of ski resorts and NZ just being a few hours flight away.

It's not just NA either - there are now lot's of Australian's skiing in Japan as well. Skiing in Australia is ridiculously expensive for a variety of reasons

It's the above that makes me think a seasonal DEN service to not be completely bonkers. Any AKL - DEN service would tap into Australian connections.

Not saying it will happen though.

Skiing in British Columbia isn't cheap either. A 1 day lift ticket in BC for an adult, depending on the ski hill:

Whistler - 156$
Kicking Horse - 105$
Fernie Alpine - 105$
Revelstoke - 100$
Big White - 95$

Source: https://www.onthesnow.com/british-colum ... ckets.html

Very comparable to Australia.

https://www.onthesnow.com/australia/lift-tickets.html

caverunner17 wrote:

USAOZ wrote:

Nope.

A lot of ski traffic is very high yield especially from Australia .Many hnw individuals don't csre what it costs to get to Colorado from PER, ADL, MEL, SYD, OOL, BNE& CNS with only one stop ie. at AKL with no terminsl change & avoid Lax they'd love it

Agreed. I've been on the lift twice this year with vacationing kiwi's. I wouldn't have guessed it was a big thing, but they said they come yearly.

Still, your looking at a handful of flights in Dec-Jan only. If this comes to be, it will be charter type operations, more or less. 12 to 15 flights a season. Nothing more.

Thenoflyzone wrote:

NTLDaz wrote:

QF flies SYD - YVR in the NW largely for ski traffic. This is despite Australia having a multitude of ski resorts and NZ just being a few hours flight away.

It's not just NA either - there are now lot's of Australian's skiing in Japan as well. Skiing in Australia is ridiculously expensive for a variety of reasons

It's the above that makes me think a seasonal DEN service to not be completely bonkers. Any AKL - DEN service would tap into Australian connections.

Not saying it will happen though.

Skiing in British Columbia isn't cheap either. A 1 day lift ticket in BC for an adult, depending on the ski hill:

Whistler - 156$
Kicking Horse - 105$
Fernie Alpine - 105$
Revelstoke - 100$
Big White - 95$

Source: https://www.onthesnow.com/british-colum ... ckets.html

Very comparable to Australia.

https://www.onthesnow.com/australia/lift-tickets.html

caverunner17 wrote:

USAOZ wrote:

Nope.

A lot of ski traffic is very high yield especially from Australia .Many hnw individuals don't csre what it costs to get to Colorado from PER, ADL, MEL, SYD, OOL, BNE& CNS with only one stop ie. at AKL with no terminsl change & avoid Lax they'd love it

Agreed. I've been on the lift twice this year with vacationing kiwi's. I wouldn't have guessed it was a big thing, but they said they come yearly.

Still, your looking at a handful of flights in Dec-Jan only. If this comes to be, it will be charter type operations, more or less. 12 to 15 flights a season. Nothing more.

usmcav8tor wrote:

USAOZ wrote:

Just heard rumour that nz will fly akl den nonstop from end of year codeshsring with ua but no idea of frequency

Out of curiosity, does anyone know the group of people the hope to serve on this route? From experience, most Coloradans looking to go international would fly United and connect at LAX or SFO. Plus, with DEN being a United hub it made for an abundance of options.

USAOZ wrote:

usmcav8tor wrote:

USAOZ wrote:

Just heard rumour that nz will fly akl den nonstop from end of year codeshsring with ua but no idea of frequency

Out of curiosity, does anyone know the group of people the hope to serve on this route? From experience, most Coloradans looking to go international would fly United and connect at LAX or SFO. Plus, with DEN being a United hub it made for an abundance of options.

Why would anyone from usa at denver or east of, going to nzl or oz want to go via lax or sfo when they coukd go nonstop den akl with good international connections at akl where they might have to walk up to 200 metres only to their next aircraft. No changing terminals.

Only reason would be price or some silly frequent flyer point reason. Most ff programmes seem to be dying now

zkncj wrote:

OA940 wrote:

Sorry, but I just can't see the demand. ORD would make a lot more sense.

It could simply be an smoke screen from NZ before they launch ORD, they have in the past started there own rumours around new routes to attract attention and the best deals from the airport companies / local authorities.

With AA entering the AKL-LAX market sessional (during the peak session) NZ is out to protect its turf, even that means launching routes that don't seem that make sense. If AA leaves the market, don't be supprized if NZ leaves some of these new talked routes.

USAOZ wrote:

Why would anyone from usa at denver or east of, going to nzl or oz want to go via lax or sfo when they coukd go nonstop den akl with good international connections at akl where they might have to walk up to 200 metres only to their next aircraft. No changing terminals.

Thenoflyzone wrote:

LAXintl wrote:

Forget the payload, the 777 more importantly is tire speed limited at DEN. Thats why UA never could launch NRT with the 777 and its short attempt at seasonal DEN-LHR was also restricted.

The payload hit is directly related to max tire speed on departure.

USAOZ wrote:

Who said 777 ? What about 787 ?

Slghtly better performance out of DEN, but still a heavy payload hit. Assuming ISA conditions (which for DEN is about +3 C), the 789 will leave 40,000 lb of payload at DEN, as opposed to 60 to 65,000 lb for the 77E.

Obviously on warmer days, the payload hit will be greater.

planemanofnz previously posted that if the temp at DEN is +15C, the 77E will leave close to 80,000 lb of payload at DEN.

USAOZ wrote:

Makes perfect sense to.me say 2 or 3 times a week in dec-jan. Just like qf did syd yvr.

YVR-Australia is a far larger market than DEN-NZ.

YVR-NZ is also much larger than DEN-NZ, which is why Air New Zealand operates the former, and not the latter.

DavidByrne wrote:

Whatever any of us think about the merits or otherwise of skiers going to Colorado or Canada from Aus/NZ is irrelevant to what we do know:

1 NZ has previously indicated strong interest in DEN as a destination;
2 NZ has recently indicfated that it is interested in a new USA port;
3 Local media in NZ suggests ORD will be announced soon while rumour elsewhere suggests DEN will be favoured.

If NZ announces DEN or ORD - or neither, full time or seasonally, it will have done its homework and I can guarantee they will have more solid info on the potential market than any A/netter! Ultimately what posters on this thread think about the chances of success is not worth very much at all in this context. So chill . . . !

USAOZ wrote:

thinking about it, isn't AKL/DEN about the same distance as BNE/YVR ? & much shorter than SYD/YVR & MEL/YVR ?

AC seem to manage those 3 sectors nonstop without much hassle.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

USAOZ wrote:

thinking about it, isn't AKL/DEN about the same distance as BNE/YVR ? & much shorter than SYD/YVR & MEL/YVR ?

AC seem to manage those 3 sectors nonstop without much hassle.

Are you aware about how elevation influences flights? Not to mention YVR is a rich source of J traffic. DEN isnt.

drerx7 wrote:

ORD....got to be!

AVENSAB727 wrote:

drerx7 wrote:

ORD....got to be!

I wonder how this could affect IAH though.

AVENSAB727 wrote:

drerx7 wrote:

ORD....got to be!

I wonder how this could affect IAH though.