Northwest1988
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Concorde and Air Force One at SXM (video)

Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:18 am

Found this video while flipping through YouTube earlier. I never saw this video or any other pics of either of these plane at SXM. Did Concorde ever fly to SXM regularly or was this probably a one off flight?

Here is the video:
https://youtu.be/SMh20J6MLXE
 
Cunard
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Re: Concorde and Air Force One at SXM (video)

Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:14 am

Regarding the Concorde it was a one off charter and it was the first occasion that SXM had seen the aircraft, I believe it was carrying the French president.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: Concorde and Air Force One at SXM (video)

Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:48 pm

Image
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FLYi
 
uta999
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Re: Concorde and Air Force One at SXM (video)

Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:52 pm

Would it fly non-stop to CDG, or need to refuel on departure?
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CARST
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Re: Concorde and Air Force One at SXM (video)

Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:43 pm

I'm sure it flew to another airport to refueling like all the KL 747s did for years. Can't remember a scheduled non-stop SXM-Europe flight.
 
NYCAAer
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Re: Concorde and Air Force One at SXM (video)

Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:06 pm

This was in December 1989, when US President Bush and French President Mitterrand had a special meeting in St. Maarten, according to one of the posts on YouTube.
 
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United787
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Re: Concorde and Air Force One at SXM (video)

Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:16 pm

Bush arrives in a 707, Mitterrand arrives in a Concorde... those VC-25s (747s) couldn't arrive soon enough, 9 months later...
 
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Aesma
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Re: Concorde and Air Force One at SXM (video)

Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:06 pm

The Concorde is cooler regardless !

I would expect the presidents to meet in Saint Martin though, not Sint Maarten.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
hooverman
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Re: Concorde and Air Force One at SXM (video)

Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:02 pm

CARST wrote:
I'm sure it flew to another airport to refueling like all the KL 747s did for years. Can't remember a scheduled non-stop SXM-Europe flight.

I thought AF CDG-SXM-CDG (on the A340)was nonstop.
 
rnav2dlrey
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Re: Concorde and Air Force One at SXM (video)

Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:27 pm

great find! now somebody needs to stumble upon footage of concorde departing SXM....
 
goldorak
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Re: Concorde and Air Force One at SXM (video)

Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:41 pm

hooverman wrote:
CARST wrote:
I'm sure it flew to another airport to refueling like all the KL 747s did for years. Can't remember a scheduled non-stop SXM-Europe flight.

I thought AF CDG-SXM-CDG (on the A340)was nonstop.

It is non-stop indeed.
 
concordeforever
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Re: Concorde and Air Force One at SXM (video)

Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:01 pm

Thanks for the video, brilliant!

This was on December 16th 1989, AF100F bringing in President Mitterand for a meeting with President Bush. F-BVFF was the aircraft involved flying non-stop from Paris CDG in 3 hours and 55 minutes with 3 hours and 22 minutes of this at supersonic speed.

The return flight AF900F left the same evening and routed via Pointe A Pitre for refuelling, arriving back at CDG in the early hours of the 17th. 22 minutes from SXM to PTP then 3 hours and 46 minutes to CDG with 3 hours and 22 minutes of this at supersonic speed.

Regards,
Derek.
 
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CARST
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Re: Concorde and Air Force One at SXM (video)

Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:06 am

hooverman wrote:
CARST wrote:
I'm sure it flew to another airport to refueling like all the KL 747s did for years. Can't remember a scheduled non-stop SXM-Europe flight.

I thought AF CDG-SXM-CDG (on the A340)was nonstop.


goldorak wrote:
It is non-stop indeed.


Sorry, my bad guys, of course since the introduction of the A340 the flight was non-stop. Didn't think about this one. I just know that the KL 747 always went to another island for refueling. And that the Concorde did as well. I think the 787s these days can go non-stop, too. But in the past decades that was much different with older aircraft types, the short runway at SXM and the high temperatures..
 
Max Q
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Re: Concorde and Air Force One at SXM (video)

Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:41 am

concordeforever wrote:
Thanks for the video, brilliant!

This was on December 16th 1989, AF100F bringing in President Mitterand for a meeting with President Bush. F-BVFF was the aircraft involved flying non-stop from Paris CDG in 3 hours and 55 minutes with 3 hours and 22 minutes of this at supersonic speed.

The return flight AF900F left the same evening and routed via Pointe A Pitre for refuelling, arriving back at CDG in the early hours of the 17th. 22 minutes from SXM to PTP then 3 hours and 46 minutes to CDG with 3 hours and 22 minutes of this at supersonic speed.

Regards,
Derek.



Very interesting, those are some of the longest block times I’ve seen on the Concorde


SXM must have been on the limit of her range although I imagine there weren’t that
many passengers reducing the burn a little
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Concorde and Air Force One at SXM (video)

Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:13 am

Must be strange for the AF1 crew to realize that they are the second most special aircraft to arrive that day :lol:
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
dr1980
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Re: Concorde and Air Force One at SXM (video)

Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:33 pm

I don’t think the reason KLM 747s went to another island (Curaçao) was for fuel given that’s further south than SXM.
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cpd
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Re: Concorde and Air Force One at SXM (video)

Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:20 am

Max Q wrote:
concordeforever wrote:
Thanks for the video, brilliant!

This was on December 16th 1989, AF100F bringing in President Mitterand for a meeting with President Bush. F-BVFF was the aircraft involved flying non-stop from Paris CDG in 3 hours and 55 minutes with 3 hours and 22 minutes of this at supersonic speed.

The return flight AF900F left the same evening and routed via Pointe A Pitre for refuelling, arriving back at CDG in the early hours of the 17th. 22 minutes from SXM to PTP then 3 hours and 46 minutes to CDG with 3 hours and 22 minutes of this at supersonic speed.

Regards,
Derek.



Very interesting, those are some of the longest block times I’ve seen on the Concorde


SXM must have been on the limit of her range although I imagine there weren’t that
many passengers reducing the burn a little


I'm guessing the plane was light (in terms of passenger and baggage load) and the weather conditions were favourable so it would manage this okay. It has previously done some very long flights as well in normal passenger service.
 
Max Q
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Re: Concorde and Air Force One at SXM (video)

Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:13 am

Er, yes that’s what I said
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SamTheGeek
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Re: Concorde and Air Force One at SXM (video)

Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:26 am

dr1980 wrote:
I don’t think the reason KLM 747s went to another island (Curaçao) was for fuel given that’s further south than SXM.


SXM's runway is only 2300m long, so they probably needed PTP's 3500m runway to carry enough fuel to get home — it's unlikely that Concorde could lift enough fuel out of SXM. PTP is close enough to her max load runway length (3600m) that it'd be an easier ask. I did a quick scan and there isn't a longer French runway in the Caribbean that I know of (it wouldn't do for the French President to stop in another country for fuel!)
 
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cpd
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Re: Concorde and Air Force One at SXM (video)

Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:01 am

Max Q wrote:
Er, yes that’s what I said


You mentioned load, but didn't mention weather. The weather (temperature) can help or hinder the range.
 
opticalilyushin
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Re: Concorde and Air Force One at SXM (video)

Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:00 am

Does the replacement KLM A330 not fly direct SXM-AMS now?+
 
gokmengs
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Re: Concorde and Air Force One at SXM (video)

Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:18 am

anyone had any luck finding the take off video off Concorde at SXM?
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steman
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Re: Concorde and Air Force One at SXM (video)

Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:30 am

concordeforever wrote:
Thanks for the video, brilliant!

This was on December 16th 1989, AF100F bringing in President Mitterand for a meeting with President Bush. F-BVFF was the aircraft involved flying non-stop from Paris CDG in 3 hours and 55 minutes with 3 hours and 22 minutes of this at supersonic speed.

The return flight AF900F left the same evening and routed via Pointe A Pitre for refuelling, arriving back at CDG in the early hours of the 17th. 22 minutes from SXM to PTP then 3 hours and 46 minutes to CDG with 3 hours and 22 minutes of this at supersonic speed.

Regards,
Derek.


How could it be 3 hours and 22 minutes supersonic out of a total flight time of 3 hours and 55 minutes? What about the time from take off at CDG and reaching the coast of the Atlantic? What about the descent into SXM? Those must have taken definitely longer than 33 minutes total.
Same for the return trip. I can imagine that climbing out of PTP the Concorde went straight to supersonic, since it was immediately overflying the sea but upon reaching the Atlantic coast of France it must have slowed down to subsonic and flown for a short while well below Mach 1 till landing at CDG.
 
concordeforever
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Re: Concorde and Air Force One at SXM (video)

Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:03 pm

How could it be 3 hours and 22 minutes supersonic out of a total flight time of 3 hours and 55 minutes? What about the time from take off at CDG and reaching the coast of the Atlantic? What about the descent into SXM? Those must have taken definitely longer than 33 minutes total.
Same for the return trip. I can imagine that climbing out of PTP the Concorde went straight to supersonic, since it was immediately overflying the sea but upon reaching the Atlantic coast of France it must have slowed down to subsonic and flown for a short while well below Mach 1 till landing at CDG.[/quote]


Well this is the information printed on the card that I have from the Official Air France First Day Covers issued for the event......maybe they printed it wrong?
 
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Aesma
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Re: Concorde and Air Force One at SXM (video)

Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:17 am

Couldn't it fly over the Channel supersonic ?

Or maybe just fly supersonic over land, exceptionally.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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cpd
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Re: Concorde and Air Force One at SXM (video)

Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:25 am

Aesma wrote:
Couldn't it fly over the Channel supersonic ?

Or maybe just fly supersonic over land, exceptionally.


It did go supersonic over the channel: LFPG - EVEREUX - LE HAVRE - TESGO - AKELO - RILKA - RATKA - SIERRA-MIKE - KENDA - LINND - 72WEST - OWENZ - CAMRN - KJFK

That's the standard Paris to New York route. Supersonic at TESGO waypoint already, about M1.45 at that point if I remember right. If the Président de la République was on board the plane, it might be possible for it to go supersonic over land in a particular corridor if there was any uninhabitated land along the way, but unlikely.

concordeforever wrote:
How could it be 3 hours and 22 minutes supersonic out of a total flight time of 3 hours and 55 minutes? What about the time from take off at CDG and reaching the coast of the Atlantic? What about the descent into SXM? Those must have taken definitely longer than 33 minutes total.
Same for the return trip. I can imagine that climbing out of PTP the Concorde went straight to supersonic, since it was immediately overflying the sea but upon reaching the Atlantic coast of France it must have slowed down to subsonic and flown for a short while well below Mach 1 till landing at CDG.



Well this is the information printed on the card that I have from the Official Air France First Day Covers issued for the event......maybe they printed it wrong?



Even subsonic flight on the descent phase is around FL380, and gradually going down. And the fuel usage in that phase of the flight wouldn't be that high. Additionally, there are tricks with Concorde to descend quickly in shorter distance and that doesn't involve using idle reverse on two engines, although it's possible to do that too (if ATC wants the crew to descend more quickly)

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