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Samrnpage wrote:Dutchy wrote:Why is there a delay? There are no sanctions as of yet to prevent delivering these a/c, are they?
I think Iran doesnt want to pay up front . Basically their argument is they could give Boeing $5Billion up front to pay for the planes, then get aload of sanctions for "reasons" and not get their money back. They want to pay per aircraft delivery. So they will pay X amount per plane delivered instead.
Dutchy wrote:Why is there a delay? There are no sanctions as of yet to prevent delivering these a/c, are they?
Dutchy wrote:Why is there a delay? There are no sanctions as of yet to prevent delivering these a/c, are they?
Dutchy wrote:Ah ok, well then I would make a slightly different deal with Iran if I were Boeing or Airbus, just price it in, ask a premium because of this risk and airplanes, except for the interior, are in basis quite a generic right.
WIederling wrote:Dutchy wrote:Ah ok, well then I would make a slightly different deal with Iran if I were Boeing or Airbus, just price it in, ask a premium because of this risk and airplanes, except for the interior, are in basis quite a generic right.
The risk is produced by the seller side. Why should Iran pay more?
WIederling wrote:Dutchy wrote:Ah ok, well then I would make a slightly different deal with Iran if I were Boeing or Airbus, just price it in, ask a premium because of this risk and airplanes, except for the interior, are in basis quite a generic right.
The risk is produced by the seller side. Why should Iran pay more?
blueflyer wrote:Dutchy is suggesting that to get around the current impasse, Iranian airlines make a lump-sum payment on delivery.
Samrnpage wrote:Id love some new SSJ100s in the Sky.
alfa164 wrote:Samrnpage wrote:Id love some new SSJ100s in the Sky.
I'd love it, too - if the all actually stayed flying. Right now 4 of Interjet's 22 SSJ100's are on the ground, being taken apart for parts to keep the other planes flying.
These aircraft may - one day - turn out to be great planes. For now, reliability - and the availability of spare parts - seems to be a real bugaboo.
WIederling wrote:alfa164 wrote:Samrnpage wrote:Id love some new SSJ100s in the Sky.
I'd love it, too - if the all actually stayed flying. Right now 4 of Interjet's 22 SSJ100's are on the ground, being taken apart for parts to keep the other planes flying.
These aircraft may - one day - turn out to be great planes. For now, reliability - and the availability of spare parts - seems to be a real bugaboo.
is it reliability _and_ availability of spare part
or just the spare parts issue?
WIederling wrote:blueflyer wrote:Dutchy is suggesting that to get around the current impasse, Iranian airlines make a lump-sum payment on delivery.
ROFL.
Nigerian Scam. Only for more money.
One thing is certain: The US has a knack for getting funny ideas ...
alfa164 wrote:Well... if it were really reliable, it shouldn't need to wait on spare parts.
And if the spare parts weren't so unavailable... it would be more reliable...
So there is something of a "Catch 22" there...
WIederling wrote:alfa164 wrote:Well... if it were really reliable, it shouldn't need to wait on spare parts.
And if the spare parts weren't so unavailable... it would be more reliable...
So there is something of a "Catch 22" there...
??
That does not compute.
you loose parts all the time.
do they have defects more often than other planes?
Let me repeat:
Is it a reliability issue
or an
availability issue?
Blerg wrote:The SSJ would make perfect sense. Russia has re-established banking ties with Iran so money transfers could happen without any risk.
On top of that, IR could serve many routes where the A320/321 is too much of an aircraft not to mention that they could efficiently launch international flights from Iran's other cities such as Tabriz, Mashhad, Esfahan ... I could see Persian Gulf destinations receiving many new regional flights with the SSJ.
persiangulf93 wrote:Blerg wrote:The SSJ would make perfect sense. Russia has re-established banking ties with Iran so money transfers could happen without any risk.
On top of that, IR could serve many routes where the A320/321 is too much of an aircraft not to mention that they could efficiently launch international flights from Iran's other cities such as Tabriz, Mashhad, Esfahan ... I could see Persian Gulf destinations receiving many new regional flights with the SSJ.
That's already been covered by ATR's
parapente wrote:Help me out here.What is (what one might say) the payment/purchase conditions for a normal sale.
Say British Airways agrees to buy Boeing 787-9's.(not leased,bought).
I always thought that there was a 'transaction day' where each aircraft is inspected and flown.If given the OK then (all) the money for that aircraft is transferred (BA to Boeing)with the relevant ownership documents signed.Then the aircraft is flown - by British Airways pilots from Seattle to (in this case) London.
Is that wrong?
Blerg wrote:persiangulf93 wrote:Blerg wrote:The SSJ would make perfect sense. Russia has re-established banking ties with Iran so money transfers could happen without any risk.
On top of that, IR could serve many routes where the A320/321 is too much of an aircraft not to mention that they could efficiently launch international flights from Iran's other cities such as Tabriz, Mashhad, Esfahan ... I could see Persian Gulf destinations receiving many new regional flights with the SSJ.
That's already been covered by ATR's
I was referring to routes such as Mashhad-Dubai or Tabriz-Istanbul. These are hardly adequate for the Atr.
persiangulf93 wrote:Blerg wrote:persiangulf93 wrote:
That's already been covered by ATR's
I was referring to routes such as Mashhad-Dubai or Tabriz-Istanbul. These are hardly adequate for the Atr.
These routes have high demand, SSJ100's are too small.
Blerg wrote:persiangulf93 wrote:Blerg wrote:
I was referring to routes such as Mashhad-Dubai or Tabriz-Istanbul. These are hardly adequate for the Atr.
These routes have high demand, SSJ100's are too small.
Jesus Christ. Could you go back to my initial post where i said that they could launch international flights from secondary Iranian cities such as Mashhad, Tabriz...where the A320 series aircraft are too big. IKA-LCA is a route that could see the SSJ given that outside the three summer months there aren't enough passengers to fill anything larger than a regional jet.
Nicoeddf wrote:parapente wrote:Help me out here.What is (what one might say) the payment/purchase conditions for a normal sale.
Say British Airways agrees to buy Boeing 787-9's.(not leased,bought
In general you are right, that is how it works. Your timeline is a bit off, though.
persiangulf93 wrote:Blerg wrote:persiangulf93 wrote:
These routes have high demand, SSJ100's are too small.
Jesus Christ. Could you go back to my initial post where i said that they could launch international flights from secondary Iranian cities such as Mashhad, Tabriz...where the A320 series aircraft are too big. IKA-LCA is a route that could see the SSJ given that outside the three summer months there aren't enough passengers to fill anything larger than a regional jet.
As I said, Tabriz-Istanbul and Mash'had - Dubai are highly profitable routes with lots of demand, A320's are def. not too big, I would even say that they are too small.
For some routes the SSJ could work, but there are far better options than Russian jets.
Blerg wrote:persiangulf93 wrote:Blerg wrote:
Jesus Christ. Could you go back to my initial post where i said that they could launch international flights from secondary Iranian cities such as Mashhad, Tabriz...where the A320 series aircraft are too big. IKA-LCA is a route that could see the SSJ given that outside the three summer months there aren't enough passengers to fill anything larger than a regional jet.
As I said, Tabriz-Istanbul and Mash'had - Dubai are highly profitable routes with lots of demand, A320's are def. not too big, I would even say that they are too small.
For some routes the SSJ could work, but there are far better options than Russian jets.
You mean like the Atr?
The SSJ is a fine aircraft and there are very little risks that come with it. Until the situation with Iran stabilizes it will be the country's best bet.
persiangulf93 wrote:Blerg wrote:persiangulf93 wrote:
As I said, Tabriz-Istanbul and Mash'had - Dubai are highly profitable routes with lots of demand, A320's are def. not too big, I would even say that they are too small.
For some routes the SSJ could work, but there are far better options than Russian jets.
You mean like the Atr?
The SSJ is a fine aircraft and there are very little risks that come with it. Until the situation with Iran stabilizes it will be the country's best bet.
Embraer? Bombardier? Iran has nothing to fear, legally Iran is not prohibited to buy from these companies and OFAC is obliged according to the JCPOA to provide licenses. If it doesn't it would be a direct breach and not be welcomed by the International Community.
alfa164 wrote:WIederling wrote:alfa164 wrote:I'd love it, too - if the all actually stayed flying. Right now 4 of Interjet's 22 SSJ100's are on the ground, being taken apart for parts to keep the other planes flying.
These aircraft may - one day - turn out to be great planes. For now, reliability - and the availability of spare parts - seems to be a real bugaboo.
is it reliability _and_ availability of spare part
or just the spare parts issue?
Well... if it were really reliable, it shouldn't need to wait on spare parts.
And if the spare parts weren't so unavailable... it would be more reliable...
So there is something of a "Catch 22" there...
raylee67 wrote:It's not going to happen. Iran has waited for 40 years to buy a new Boeing or Airbus. They are not going to walk away. During the time of sanctions, Iran has looked at Tu-154, Tu-204, An-140 and An-148. it eventually did not get any of those into the mainstream airlines like IranAir or Mahan even during those desperate times. Why would it do it now? Its concern of losing the deposits because of sanctions coming back is legit. But it can probably work something out, especially with Airbus. May be putting the deposits into an escrow account in some third country like Singapore, etc.
Blerg wrote:raylee67 wrote:It's not going to happen. Iran has waited for 40 years to buy a new Boeing or Airbus. They are not going to walk away. During the time of sanctions, Iran has looked at Tu-154, Tu-204, An-140 and An-148. it eventually did not get any of those into the mainstream airlines like IranAir or Mahan even during those desperate times. Why would it do it now? Its concern of losing the deposits because of sanctions coming back is legit. But it can probably work something out, especially with Airbus. May be putting the deposits into an escrow account in some third country like Singapore, etc.
The only difference is that the SSJ is nowhere close to being inefficient as the airlines you mentioned above. SN Brussels seems to be happy with it so I don't see why IR would hate it.
On top of that, if IR is looking at the SSJ it probably means it needs a regional jet aircraft. The Atr might be a great aircraft but it caters for a special kind of market.
Jouhou wrote:For the record, I wish Iran's commercial air industry the best, regardless of global politics.
Also sukhoi has a uphill battle convincing the iranian public their aircraft is safe and reliable.
I've been wanting to see more embraer and bombardier making iran deals. They have the ideal products for the regional market in iran!
Samrnpage wrote:Id love some new SSJ100s in the Sky.
persiangulf93 wrote:Jouhou wrote:For the record, I wish Iran's commercial air industry the best, regardless of global politics.
Also sukhoi has a uphill battle convincing the iranian public their aircraft is safe and reliable.
I've been wanting to see more embraer and bombardier making iran deals. They have the ideal products for the regional market in iran!
Thanks!
Embraer has already delivered some of the 15 second hand planes that ATA bought from them. They've also reached an agreement with Embraer.
https://financialtribune.com/articles/e ... braer-jets
https://financialtribune.com/articles/e ... braer-jets
Also Fly Qeshm has ordered 10 units (new ones) from Bomardier.
https://www.fliegerfaust.com/iran-news- ... 32851.html
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-0 ... 900355.htm
parapente wrote:Thanks for both the answers on how an aircraft is bought and paid for.Shame they are totally opposite answers.
Disclosure.
There was a prog on BBC a while back on exactly this (used Boeing as an example).As I recall it it was exactly the (simple) first model.
Of course there will be financial penalties built in on both sides of an order.But that is unequivocally money changing hands or scaling up of deposits and pre-payments or anything of the sort.
Hence the question.Iran (a bloody big country/government soaking in oil) makes an order.That order is accepted (Airbus/Boeing).They will be paid on a per aircraft acceptance.
Sooo where's the problem? Methinks it is on Capitol Hill and absolutly nowhere else.
alfa164 wrote:Samrnpage wrote:Id love some new SSJ100s in the Sky.
I'd love it, too - if the all actually stayed flying. Right now 4 of Interjet's 22 SSJ100's are on the ground, being taken apart for parts to keep the other planes flying.
These aircraft may - one day - turn out to be great planes. For now, reliability - and the availability of spare parts - seems to be a real bugaboo.