"The Government of Brazil’s recent decision to relax the visa application process for Canadian travellers is expected to lead to new direct flight routes between major Brazilian destinations and some of Canada’s largest cities"
"A source in the aviation industry who wished to remain anonymous told Daily Hive at least one Canadian airline is expected to launch a new service between Vancouver International Airport (YVR) and Rio de Janeiro or possibly Sao Paulo. The individual described such a service as “imminent”.

I think with the right aircraft such as the Boeing 787 this would be a success and would be huge for the west coast and YVR. Has there ever been a route between YVR and Brazil in the past?

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouve ... ted-future

I doubt it. Brazil does not even have flights to SFO and GIG does not even have flights to LAX.

Could a winter seasonal (2 weekly) YVR-GIG work on Rouge? I bet their 763 can not do it though. I'd hope for a return of YYZ-GIG first, even if it's winter seasonal on a Canadian LCC.

YVR-GRU would be a long flight with no business demand, only leisure from Brazil POS.

YVRda wrote:

"The Government of Brazil’s recent decision to relax the visa application process for Canadian travellers is expected to lead to new direct flight routes between major Brazilian destinations and some of Canada’s largest cities"
"A source in the aviation industry who wished to remain anonymous told Daily Hive at least one Canadian airline is expected to launch a new service between Vancouver International Airport (YVR) and Rio de Janeiro or possibly Sao Paulo. The individual described such a service as “imminent”.

I think with the right aircraft such as the Boeing 787 this would be a success and would be huge for the west coast and YVR. Has there ever been a route between YVR and Brazil in the past?

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouve ... ted-future

At least one Canadian airline? Who outside of AC would want to launch this route? WestJet, haha? Are they counting RV as a "separate" airline?

airgeekteen wrote:

I doubt it. Brazil does not even have flights to SFO and GIG does not even have flights to LAX.

All the more reason for AC or any other airline to start flights from YVR! The amount of connection traffic they would get from the USA and Asia would be huge.
They started flights to DEL before Air India announced SFO-DEL and that's been a success. The 787 was built for long thin routes like YVR-Brazil.. I wouldn't be suprised if this route becomes a reality.

ooof. this would be a decently long flight....6800 NM for YVR-GRU, 6900 for YVR-GIG

izbtmnhd wrote:

YVRda wrote:

"The Government of Brazil’s recent decision to relax the visa application process for Canadian travellers is expected to lead to new direct flight routes between major Brazilian destinations and some of Canada’s largest cities"
"A source in the aviation industry who wished to remain anonymous told Daily Hive at least one Canadian airline is expected to launch a new service between Vancouver International Airport (YVR) and Rio de Janeiro or possibly Sao Paulo. The individual described such a service as “imminent”.

I think with the right aircraft such as the Boeing 787 this would be a success and would be huge for the west coast and YVR. Has there ever been a route between YVR and Brazil in the past?

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouve ... ted-future

At least one Canadian airline? Who outside of AC would want to launch this route? WestJet, haha? Are they counting RV as a "separate" airline?

Westjet has 787s coming into their fleet next year and has plans for an international expansion.

YVRda wrote:

airgeekteen wrote:

I doubt it. Brazil does not even have flights to SFO and GIG does not even have flights to LAX.

All the more reason for AC or any other airline to start flights from YVR! The amount of connection traffic they would get from the USA and Asia would be huge.
They started flights to DEL before Air India announced SFO-DEL and that's been a success. The 787 was built for long thin routes like YVR-Brazil.. I wouldn't be suprised if this route becomes a reality.

Nobody would fly GIG-YVR-LAX, that is a huge backtrack compared to, for example, GIG-PTY-LAX. YVR is near the GC for DEL-SFO.

airgeekteen wrote:

I doubt it. Brazil does not even have flights to SFO and GIG does not even have flights to LAX.

That's what I was thinking. Brazil-YVR-Asia? Is there really enough moderate-yield volume to be chased?

I'm fairly skeptical about this rumour, but it is possible. There is a huge amount of transferring traffic on AC from Brazil to Asia via YYZ. I'd imagine, if this rumour is true, that a flight through YVR would be geared to similar types of transfer traffic. The route via YYZ to China is somewhat longer than via YVR, but there are a few Asian destinations only served from YVR. AC is heavily targeting this kind of transfer traffic, so it makes some sense.

A different possibility is a Fifth Freedom route from one of the many Chinese carriers serving YVR.

This flight won't work, There are very few Brazilians living in Vancouver, almost all transfer traffic. The little O+D will mostly be tourist to Brazil. However, there are much closer and safer places for people in Vancouver to visit. The connections/business and O+D is much better out of SFO and you don't even see that yet!

YYZLGA wrote:

I'm fairly skeptical about this rumour, but it is possible. There is a huge amount of transferring traffic on AC from Brazil to Asia via YYZ. I'd imagine, if this rumour is true, that a flight through YVR would be geared to similar types of transfer traffic. The route via YYZ to China is somewhat longer than via YVR, but there are a few Asian destinations only served from YVR. AC is heavily targeting this kind of transfer traffic, so it makes some sense.

A different possibility is a Fifth Freedom route from one of the many Chinese carriers serving YVR.

From what I recall JAL and Korean used to fly into Sao Paulo and/or Rio. AC would be best situated to offer a one stop service for pax originating in the far east given its extensive network, although it may not be the fastest route. I am also seeing a growing Brazilian community in Western Canada that could benefit from this.

YYZLGA wrote:

I'm fairly skeptical about this rumour, but it is possible. There is a huge amount of transferring traffic on AC from Brazil to Asia via YYZ. I'd imagine, if this rumour is true, that a flight through YVR would be geared to similar types of transfer traffic. The route via YYZ to China is somewhat longer than via YVR, but there are a few Asian destinations only served from YVR. AC is heavily targeting this kind of transfer traffic, so it makes some sense.

A different possibility is a Fifth Freedom route from one of the many Chinese carriers serving YVR.

Chinese carriers are probably better off serving Brazil from MAD/BCN/LIS. Distance-wise it's shorter than going through YVR, and there's probably a lot more local traffic between Brazil-LIS/MAD/BCN than Brazil-YVR.

Also even if there's a huge Asia-Brazil traffic, YVR will also have to compete with Asia-DXB/DOH-GRU which is shorter and quicker than going via YVR.

airgeekteen wrote:

I doubt it. Brazil does not even have flights to SFO and GIG does not even have flights to LAX.

Yes but that has to do with the extremely annoying Visa process that limits tourism to Brazil. Wen the US gets relaxed Visa changes US Airlines will add service from more cities than they are currently operating from.

rbavfan wrote:

airgeekteen wrote:

I doubt it. Brazil does not even have flights to SFO and GIG does not even have flights to LAX.

Yes but that has to do with the extremely annoying Visa process that limits tourism to Brazil. Wen the US gets relaxed Visa changes US Airlines will add service from more cities than they are currently operating from.

Agreed, until the transit rules are changed, why would anyone want to transit the US vs Canada? If YVR-GRU/GIG happened, I'd expect JL, KE or HU via YVR to Brazil. However a Canadian carrier could better suit the seating layout for a more VFR friendly layout YVR-GRU/GIG while offering a more premium heavy layout for the TPAC leg.

If PR, BR, CI, CA, JL, NH, KE, OZ, SQ or any other Asian carrier flew to YVR n/s from their hub & go n/s to Brazil with no transit visa, they may be limited with a more premium heavy layout on their best long haul aircraft.

Whatever carrier would have the best business product & would capture, what, if any high end corporate travel with discounted J & F, but also have the only n/s & be offering an excellent Y product as well. But like other fifth freedom tags, having a major asset so far away from home can become problematic when you have an issue at the apex of the route & it's running at break even on the tag, when it could be making $ elsewhere.

A Brazilian government official (could have been the minister of tourism, can’t recall) came out recently and said that they want to have 4-5 flights from Brazil to Canada, he was quoted in a Toronto based article I read on Facebook. I think it’s clear that both sides want to see growth beyond AC’s YYZ-GRU which currently stands as the only direct flight between Canada and Brazil. The AC 788 with it’s dense configuration is perfect to open up a potential GRU-YVR, and I can definitely see GIG-YYZ restarting, likely with Rouge again. Other then that, Latam or Avianca Brazil could probably run a GRU-YYZ, but beyond that, I don’t know how much the market can support, at least at this point. Advertising and promotion would probably go a long way towards generating demand, particularly on the Canadian side. It’s the awareness that is lacking.

This Brazil - Asia has been discussed a long time.
Currently the ME3 + TK and ET have been the ones carrying the bulk of people from these two continents.
They don't require visa or at least transit visa and they offer cheaper prices.

I think AC could try it. But I doubt if it will succeed in this route.

Ive heard of terrible ideas, but this is pretty high on the list.

IrishAyes wrote:

ooof. this would be a decently long flight....6800 NM for YVR-GRU, 6900 for YVR-GIG

Wrong.
GIG-YVR is 6,048 nm and GRU-YVR is 5,960 nm.

I'm struggling to see how this route would succeed. Perhaps a seasonal Rouge B763, just trying to figure out which season.

Acey wrote:

IrishAyes wrote:

ooof. this would be a decently long flight....6800 NM for YVR-GRU, 6900 for YVR-GIG

Wrong.
GIG-YVR is 6,048 nm and GRU-YVR is 5,960 nm.

Not per GC map.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=yvr-gru/gig

IrishAyes wrote:

Acey wrote:

IrishAyes wrote:

ooof. this would be a decently long flight....6800 NM for YVR-GRU, 6900 for YVR-GIG

Wrong.
GIG-YVR is 6,048 nm and GRU-YVR is 5,960 nm.

Not per GC map.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=yvr-gru/gig

Um, you know statute miles are not the same as nautical miles, yes?

IrishAyes wrote:

Acey wrote:

IrishAyes wrote:

ooof. this would be a decently long flight....6800 NM for YVR-GRU, 6900 for YVR-GIG

Wrong.
GIG-YVR is 6,048 nm and GRU-YVR is 5,960 nm.

Not per GC map.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=yvr-gru/gig

Check again.. you had it set to statute miles

MIflyer12 wrote:

airgeekteen wrote:

I doubt it. Brazil does not even have flights to SFO and GIG does not even have flights to LAX.

That's what I was thinking. Brazil-YVR-Asia? Is there really enough moderate-yield volume to be chased?

That would be competing against ME3, many of the European and American airlines, as well as a few African airlines.
And at least for Chinese visitors, they would have to deal with visa requirement to transit in Canada to South America?

YVRda wrote:

airgeekteen wrote:

I doubt it. Brazil does not even have flights to SFO and GIG does not even have flights to LAX.

All the more reason for AC or any other airline to start flights from YVR! The amount of connection traffic they would get from the USA and Asia would be huge.
They started flights to DEL before Air India announced SFO-DEL and that's been a success. The 787 was built for long thin routes like YVR-Brazil.. I wouldn't be suprised if this route becomes a reality.

I think the population demographics between West Asians and Brazilians are completely different. The population in the Pacific Northwest is booming! At least in the Seattle area, both Microsoft and Boeing; and probably many others are bringing in West Asians for employment. The Fraser Valley has a significant West Asian population. I'm a little surprised that AI hasn't given SEA a try.

I'm not saying it would impossible. But in my opinion, I just don't think it is very likely, despite easier VISA requirements.

wedgetail737 wrote:

YVRda wrote:

airgeekteen wrote:

I doubt it. Brazil does not even have flights to SFO and GIG does not even have flights to LAX.

All the more reason for AC or any other airline to start flights from YVR! The amount of connection traffic they would get from the USA and Asia would be huge.
They started flights to DEL before Air India announced SFO-DEL and that's been a success. The 787 was built for long thin routes like YVR-Brazil.. I wouldn't be suprised if this route becomes a reality.

I think the population demographics between West Asians and Brazilians are completely different. The population in the Pacific Northwest is booming! At least in the Seattle area, both Microsoft and Boeing; and probably many others are bringing in West Asians for employment. The Fraser Valley has a significant West Asian population. I'm a little surprised that AI hasn't given SEA a try.

I'm not saying it would impossible. But in my opinion, I just don't think it is very likely, despite easier VISA requirements.

Why should AI be more interested in SEA when LAX/BOS/DFW/IAH are all larger air market to India and have larger Indian populations. Dallas has about 2x as many Indian residents as Seattle.

9252fly wrote:

I'm struggling to see how this route would succeed. Perhaps a seasonal Rouge B763, just trying to figure out which season.

A 767-300 couldn't make YVR-GRU/GIG, it would have to be a 787 or 777.

whywhyzee wrote:

A Brazilian government official (could have been the minister of tourism, can’t recall) came out recently and said that they want to have 4-5 flights from Brazil to Canada, he was quoted in a Toronto based article I read on Facebook. I think it’s clear that both sides want to see growth beyond AC’s YYZ-GRU which currently stands as the only direct flight between Canada and Brazil. The AC 788 with it’s dense configuration is perfect to open up a potential GRU-YVR, and I can definitely see GIG-YYZ restarting, likely with Rouge again. Other then that, Latam or Avianca Brazil could probably run a GRU-YYZ, but beyond that, I don’t know how much the market can support, at least at this point. Advertising and promotion would probably go a long way towards generating demand, particularly on the Canadian side. It’s the awareness that is lacking.

I am pretty sure Air Canada knows exactly the demand between Canada and Brazil. (As would AA, DL and UA). If more flights were warranted, they'd be flying now. YYZ-GIG was busy during the Olympics, but advanced bookings beyond that were not good. For the record, it was mainline that was flying YYZ-GIG, not Rouge.

Did WS not express interest in South America, as well as Asia and Europe to further their long haul expansion? I can’t remember if they mentioned that when they got the 767s or when they ordered the 787s.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

wedgetail737 wrote:

YVRda wrote:

All the more reason for AC or any other airline to start flights from YVR! The amount of connection traffic they would get from the USA and Asia would be huge.
They started flights to DEL before Air India announced SFO-DEL and that's been a success. The 787 was built for long thin routes like YVR-Brazil.. I wouldn't be suprised if this route becomes a reality.

I think the population demographics between West Asians and Brazilians are completely different. The population in the Pacific Northwest is booming! At least in the Seattle area, both Microsoft and Boeing; and probably many others are bringing in WAest Asians for employment. The Fraser Valley has a significant West Asian population. I'm a little surprised that AI hasn't given SEA a try.

I'm not saying it would impossible. But in my opinion, I just don't think it is very likely, despite easier VISA requirements.

Why should AI be more interested in SEA when LAX/BOS/DFW/IAH are all larger air market to India and have larger Indian populations. Dallas has about 2x as many Indian residents as Seattle.

Did I say anything about SEA vs. LAX/BOS/DFW/IAH???? No! The subject matter was comparing the possibility of YVR to Brazil vs. YVR to India. I just thought AI might consider SEA someday since the LOCAL population was booming here.

If you consider YVR/SEA/western Canada there’s a huge catchment area. On top of that lots of connections to Asia on AC. The flight could definitely work

YVRda wrote:

airgeekteen wrote:

I doubt it. Brazil does not even have flights to SFO and GIG does not even have flights to LAX.

All the more reason for AC or any other airline to start flights from YVR! The amount of connection traffic they would get from the USA and Asia would be huge.

Huh, why would anyone in their right mind would fly SFO/LAX/SJC/PDX/SLC/ORDetc. - YVR - GIG/GRU? Asia...maybe but certainly not USA/Canada other than the few people who would make to 3 to 4 hour drive from Seattle accross the border and take a potential non stop to Brazil from YVR...which again does not make sense when they can fly to MIA/ATL/DFW/IAH and connect.

geoshina wrote:

This Brazil - Asia has been discussed a long time.
Currently the ME3 + TK and ET have been the ones carrying the bulk of people from these two continents.
They don't require visa or at least transit visa and they offer cheaper prices.

I think AC could try it. But I doubt if it will succeed in this route.

Exactly. And the fact that going through ME3/IST hubs is easier (no transit visa) and shorter distance than going through YVR (except for ex-Japan). There's also a reason why Asian carriers have also chosen fifth freedom via EU instead of North America: CA MAD-GRU and previously SQ BCN-GRU.

I also question how JL/KE would make YVR-GRU work when they couldn't make JFK-GRU/LAX-GRU work, respectively.

There will be minimal business O&D demand, but I think people are under-estimating the demand of leisure traffic. There are too many high net worth people living in Vancouver. They are mostly immigrants from Asia or people who have just retired with a pile of money. And they go travel the world. They don't need to work so they can go any time. Leisure traffic demand is thus not that low yielding and will not be highly seasonal and concentrating on the traditional holiday seasons.

Also, YVR is actually a closer point of connection for traffic between Japan/Korea and Brazil. The rest of Asia is better off traveling via Europe or ME for their traffic to Brazil, but not Korea and Japan. If AC can start a 3/wkly 788 flight from YVR to GRU or GIG, and time it to connect to the flights from/to NRT/HND, KIX, NGO and ICN, this could work. The traffic demand between Japan/Korea and Brazil is not small actually. For now, they need to travel thru US, but transiting thru US has been a hassle, even though Japanese and Koreans do not need a US Visa.

izbtmnhd wrote:

Are they counting RV as a "separate" airline?

RV *is* a separate airline....

How many people are yearning to go to Brazil that have decided not to due to Visa rules? Can't be that many to necessitate immediate new flights.

smokeybandit wrote:

How many people are yearning to go to Brazil that have decided not to due to Visa rules? Can't be that many to necessitate immediate new flights.

The largest population of Japanese people outside Japan is in Brazil and is mainly concentrated around Sao Paolo. NRT-YVR-GRU would be one stop without the US visa/customs hassles.

Brazilian citizens are required to have transit visas in Canada.

wedgetail737 wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:

wedgetail737 wrote:

I think the population demographics between West Asians and Brazilians are completely different. The population in the Pacific Northwest is booming! At least in the Seattle area, both Microsoft and Boeing; and probably many others are bringing in WAest Asians for employment. The Fraser Valley has a significant West Asian population. I'm a little surprised that AI hasn't given SEA a try.

I'm not saying it would impossible. But in my opinion, I just don't think it is very likely, despite easier VISA requirements.

Why should AI be more interested in SEA when LAX/BOS/DFW/IAH are all larger air market to India and have larger Indian populations. Dallas has about 2x as many Indian residents as Seattle.

Did I say anything about SEA vs. LAX/BOS/DFW/IAH???? No! The subject matter was comparing the possibility of YVR to Brazil vs. YVR to India. I just thought AI might consider SEA someday since the LOCAL population was booming here.

Yes its growing in Seattle but again, growing slower than any of the other cities I mentioned and none of those cities have have AI either. Why should SEA be considered before any of those other cities?

YYZLGA wrote:

I'm fairly skeptical about this rumour, but it is possible. There is a huge amount of transferring traffic on AC from Brazil to Asia via YYZ. I'd imagine, if this rumour is true, that a flight through YVR would be geared to similar types of transfer traffic. The route via YYZ to China is somewhat longer than via YVR, but there are a few Asian destinations only served from YVR. AC is heavily targeting this kind of transfer traffic, so it makes some sense.

A different possibility is a Fifth Freedom route from one of the many Chinese carriers serving YVR.

GRU-YVR-China is longer than GRU-YYZ-China. Same thing for Japan. YYZ sits right on the great circle route between GRU and NRT.

So AC already serves the 6th freedom South America-China/Japan traffic pretty well via YYZ.

YVR`s network advantage to East Asia over YYZ is minimal in this regard. As far as AC is concerned, only KIX and TPE are served from YVR but not YYZ. If we include star alliance carriers, TPE-YYZ is served by BR, so that only leaves KIX. Hardly an advantage for AC. The only reason YVR-GRU will get launched is because O&D warrants it. I heard it is on the rise, but not there yet to justify a 11,000 km segment between Brazil and YVR.

As for fifth freedom routes, Chinese carriers are maxed out in that regard as well. CZ doesn`t have 5th freedom rights on YVR-MEX, because CA is utilizing the only available slot on YUL-HAV.

I too am of the opinion that YVR-South America is a tough sell. YVR isn`t well positioned in North America to capture NA-SA traffic. O&D to Brazil, although increasing, probably isn`t strong enough yet, the route segment involved is too long, and connecting traffic alone wont justify opening the route. All in all, YVR-GRU and the word ''imminent'' doesnt make much sense.

If GCM is accurate, YVR is a ~ couple hundred miles close to many Asian cities than flying through LAX. As much as I think YVR is a great airport, I can't see any airline making it work.

LAX772LR wrote:

izbtmnhd wrote:

Are they counting RV as a "separate" airline?

RV *is* a separate airline....

Yes, yes “clever” guy. Feel better now?

Also I don’t see WestJet’s long haul international routes including YVR-GiG, at least in the short term. Call me crazy.

yowza wrote:

Um, you know statute miles are not the same as nautical miles, yes?

It wouldn't be a new route speculation thread if somebody didn't know the difference between a mile and a nautical mile.

I think this idea has legs...at least enough to try three days per week.

There is a lot of Asian feed into Vancouver.

I'm sure there is a high demand for cargo too.

I believe the route would work YVR-GRU. I just arrived from GRU on Saturday GRU-YYZ-YVR, connecting on AC107 to YVR. I would estimate at least a 1/4 of passengers on AC107, 777-300 connected off AC091 from GRU. I am not suggesting it is like this every day but I have made several flights to GRU in the last few years and I am always shocked how many passengers connect to Vancouver. YVR is a small O&D market to Brazil mostly consisting of students and mining executives, however there is potential for tourist growth if a direct flight was in place and the potential for connecting traffic from Japan and Korea is large. The YVR airport authority is also working hard lobbying the feds to allow passport holders from South America to TWOV. From what I understand is this will happen sooner than later giving a big boost to the potential of a YVR-GRU flight.

izbtmnhd wrote:

LAX772LR wrote:

izbtmnhd wrote:

Are they counting RV as a "separate" airline?

RV *is* a separate airline....

Yes, yes “clever” guy. Feel better now?

By stopping your ignorance from spreading to others? Meh, I guess so.

MapleLeaf789 wrote:

I think this idea has legs...at least enough to try three days per week.

Notoriously difficult to successfully do Brazil from the west coast though. Be interesting to see them try.

MapleLeaf789 wrote:

There is a lot of Asian feed into Vancouver.

There's far more into SFO, but no one's been able to make that work for long.
There's even more into LAX, but same result. AA's putting in a good effort, but who knows how long they'll sustain it.

MapleLeaf789 wrote:

I'm sure there is a high demand for cargo too.

Why so?

raylee67 wrote:

Also, YVR is actually a closer point of connection for traffic between Japan/Korea and Brazil. The rest of Asia is better off traveling via Europe or ME for their traffic to Brazil, but not Korea and Japan. If AC can start a 3/wkly 788 flight from YVR to GRU or GIG, and time it to connect to the flights from/to NRT/HND, KIX, NGO and ICN, this could work.

If you time YVR-GRU-YVR to connect with the Asian bank, then that AC plane will need to sit idle at GRU for over 12 hours.

This is the main problem of running flights between North America and South America. If you want to maximize connectivity, you can't do a quick turn. Same problem between Australia and the US, or between Europe and South Africa.

LAX772LR wrote:

izbtmnhd wrote:

LAX772LR wrote:

RV *is* a separate airline....

Yes, yes “clever” guy. Feel better now?

By stopping your ignorance from spreading to others? Meh, I guess so.

I know it's a separate airline hence the previous quotes. Is it essentially AC? Pretty much. Context, chief.

Air Canada Rouge, stylized Air Canada rouge, is a low-cost airline, subsidiary of Air Canada. Air Canada Rouge is fully integrated into the Air Canada mainline and Air Canada Express networks, flights are sold with AC flight numbers but are listed as "operated by Air Canada Rouge" (similar to regional flights operated under the Air Canada Express banner). Rouge means "red" in French.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Canada_Rouge

Stop derailing threads with your ego.

Thenoflyzone wrote:

raylee67 wrote:

Also, YVR is actually a closer point of connection for traffic between Japan/Korea and Brazil. The rest of Asia is better off traveling via Europe or ME for their traffic to Brazil, but not Korea and Japan. If AC can start a 3/wkly 788 flight from YVR to GRU or GIG, and time it to connect to the flights from/to NRT/HND, KIX, NGO and ICN, this could work.

If you time YVR-GRU-YVR to connect with the Asian bank, then that AC plane will need to sit idle at GRU for over 12 hours.

This is the main problem of running flights between North America and South America. If you want to maximize connectivity, you can't do a quick turn. Same problem between Australia and the US, or between Europe and South Africa.

AC metal sits on the ground in GRU for 10 hours between YYZ-GRU and GRU-YYZ. It's just the cost of doing north-south business. Maybe AC can get creative and stick a tag onto this to keep the aircraft active. JJ operated a YYZ tag on the back of a JFK flight for years so I've got to believe that a reciprocal fifth freedom is in place.

YOWza

YVRda wrote:

All the more reason for AC or any other airline to start flights from YVR! The amount of connection traffic they would get from the USA and Asia would be huge.

As YYZ has direct and non-stop flights to Asia, I don't see why the existing Brazil-Canada flights through YYZ couldn't tap into the Brazil-Asia market.

Beech

yowza wrote:

AC metal sits on the ground in GRU for 10 hours between YYZ-GRU and GRU-YYZ. It's just the cost of doing north-south business. Maybe AC can get creative and stick a tag onto this to keep the aircraft active. JJ operated a YYZ tag on the back of a JFK flight for years so I've got to believe that a reciprocal fifth freedom is in place.

YOWza

JJ canceled JFK-YYZ 1 year after they launched the route (the flights were operated from March 2015 to October 2016). Illustrating very well that 5th freedom flights don't always make sense.

As you said, north-south flights are brutal.

Fleet usage goes down the drain.
In the case of YVR-GRU, it's a long sector with thin O&D.
Japan-Brazil connections already possible through YYZ, why duplicate through YVR?
YVR not well placed to capture North American connections to Brazil

A lot of negatives here. The only thing left is for O&D to increase to the point of making the route viable, which I doubt is the case right now. That might change in a few years, especially with these visa restrictions eased by Brazil and Canada.

AC knows very well how many people fly from GRU to YVR. If demand warranted it, they would start it, or at the very least, indicate it as a potential route, which they haven't, at least not in their 2015 investor day presentation of potential routes by 2018. Now I understand that they have launched YVR-DEL, which wasn't on there (should have been, don't know what AC was thinking!), but YVR-DEL was one of the largest unserved markets in the world, with O&D well over 117,000 a year. YVR-GRU O&D pales in comparison to YVR-DEL, and I dont think it's a priority for AC.

The point I'm making is that this potential flight has a lot of hurdles to overcome just to brake even, much less make a profit. Instead, why not use those 2 dreamliners and start another route than could potentially make more money, all the while tying up that plane for less time.