wjcandee
Posts: 7055
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:30 am

Whiplash6 wrote:

Not to make this a Colgan crash rehash, but the FO killed them when she put the flaps up. The captain got them in a very bad situation, but she made an extremely fatal mistake.

As far as staffing at Atlas, it does appear to be sufficient on a day-to-day basis, but the scheduling department is felling extremely stretched thin with the current staffing. There are multiple meltdowns in scheduling each week. It has gotten to the point where they are now telling pilots that management knows there’s a problem but refuses to address it.


Thanks, Whip. I hadn't looked back, and was relying on my recollection that by the time of the flaps up it was unrecoverable. I appreciate the correction.

I know things are extremely-tight at Atlas; I suspect that it won't be until they start cancelling significant numbers of flights that they will acknowledge the tightness, and maybe they're crossing their fingers that their (slow) hiring is gonna be sufficient. Atlas is still an attractive career option to many people; qualifications are the obvious question. To the beancounters, of course, until flights are cancelled this is in some sense optimal: wages/benefits/opportunities are just-barely-enough to produce just-enough pilots to staff the flying. Of course nobody sane would want to cut it that close, but there must be some Wall Street people who think it's awesome!
 
Whiplash6
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:30 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:50 am

wjcandee wrote:
Whiplash6 wrote:

Not to make this a Colgan crash rehash, but the FO killed them when she put the flaps up. The captain got them in a very bad situation, but she made an extremely fatal mistake.

As far as staffing at Atlas, it does appear to be sufficient on a day-to-day basis, but the scheduling department is felling extremely stretched thin with the current staffing. There are multiple meltdowns in scheduling each week. It has gotten to the point where they are now telling pilots that management knows there’s a problem but refuses to address it.


Thanks, Whip. I hadn't looked back, and was relying on my recollection that by the time of the flaps up it was unrecoverable. I appreciate the correction.

I know things are extremely-tight at Atlas; I suspect that it won't be until they start cancelling significant numbers of flights that they will acknowledge the tightness, and maybe they're crossing their fingers that their (slow) hiring is gonna be sufficient. Atlas is still an attractive career option to many people; qualifications are the obvious question. To the beancounters, of course, until flights are cancelled this is in some sense optimal: wages/benefits/opportunities are just-barely-enough to produce just-enough pilots to staff the flying. Of course nobody sane would want to cut it that close, but there must be some Wall Street people who think it's awesome!



Totally agree.. everyday that passes with our current cost structure Atlas is making hundreds of thousands of dollars more than they would with a fair CBA. The price of the stock indicates it. I don’t blame them for delaying as long as possible. I really don’t.
 
cmairplaneman
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:09 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:09 pm

N374AA is scheduled to go to ILN. Unfortunately won’t be going out to see it
Glider Pilot & CVG/ILN Spotter
 
wjcandee
Posts: 7055
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:10 pm

cmairplaneman wrote:
N374AA is scheduled to go to ILN. Unfortunately won’t be going out to see it


I was thinking that it should have been done yesterday. I am, as always, very interested to see what livery it wears.

374AA only took 4.75 months to go through the conversion process at TLV, but AA did give it a pre-sale heavy check at BFM (which took at least 3 months), so that may be part of why the conversion went relatively-quickly for TLV these days.
 
User avatar
1337Delta764
Posts: 5544
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:02 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:41 pm

I am a little concerned about the future of Amazon Air's flights to HNL. With the Amazon Prime price increase, I expect Hawaii (along with Alaska and Puerto Rico) will be an area that will see higher subscriber churn than the continental United States, since Hawaii does not get free two-day Prime shipping. Considering these areas don't get equal benefits to their continental United States counterparts, that probably gives these areas more of a reason to cancel, and in the cases of Alaska and Hawaii you can still get free shipping if you order over $25.
Yes, I wear Fairy Tale Pink IZOD shirts. I am a real man.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 15664
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:29 pm

1337Delta764 wrote:
I am a little concerned about the future of Amazon Air's flights to HNL. With the Amazon Prime price increase, I expect Hawaii (along with Alaska and Puerto Rico) will be an area that will see higher subscriber churn than the continental United States, since Hawaii does not get free two-day Prime shipping. Considering these areas don't get equal benefits to their continental United States counterparts, that probably gives these areas more of a reason to cancel, and in the cases of Alaska and Hawaii you can still get free shipping if you order over $25.

Is there free shipping (more than 2 day?) With Prime?

Lightsaber
You only have the first amendment with the 2nd. If you're not going to offend someone with what you say, you don't have the 1st.
 
User avatar
1337Delta764
Posts: 5544
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:02 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:04 pm

lightsaber wrote:
1337Delta764 wrote:
I am a little concerned about the future of Amazon Air's flights to HNL. With the Amazon Prime price increase, I expect Hawaii (along with Alaska and Puerto Rico) will be an area that will see higher subscriber churn than the continental United States, since Hawaii does not get free two-day Prime shipping. Considering these areas don't get equal benefits to their continental United States counterparts, that probably gives these areas more of a reason to cancel, and in the cases of Alaska and Hawaii you can still get free shipping if you order over $25.

Is there free shipping (more than 2 day?) With Prime?

Lightsaber


Alaska, Hawaii, and Puerto Rico gets Free Standard Shipping with Prime. However, you can also get free shipping to Alaska and Hawaii (but not Puerto Rico) by ordering over $25; not sure if the Prime Standard Shipping is any faster.
Yes, I wear Fairy Tale Pink IZOD shirts. I am a real man.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 7055
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:38 am

So Kalitta's 6th 767-300, N765CK just did a test flight OSC-OSC today, so I'm assuming that it's going to be making its way to MEX shortly for modification.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N765CK

If I recall, K4 does its own paint on these 767s in OSC, so N764CK, which returned from MEX recently, will probably be ready for service within a couple of weeks.

Meanwhile, 311AZ is in for a check at ILN. It basically swapped places with 307AZ, which had been in for a check for a month. Seems like these aircraft have been putting on enough cycles and hours that it's time for them to start rotating through checks. Apparently for this reason, 395CM, the ATI maintenance spare, seems to be running consistently for Amazon these days.

N1439A is still in AMA getting paint, and should be done today or tomorrow, then off for pre-service checks. Meanshile, N1619A and N1487A are still in TLV being converted.

N376AN appears still to be in conformity, and I would love to know what livery it is in; same for N374AA.
 
User avatar
Acey559
Posts: 1237
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:30 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:41 pm

N376AM is in plain white livery. AMES May have applied ATI decals, but the last picture I saw of it was just the white base paint. On that note, 376 should be finished with conformity by the end of the week (scheduled for today but we’ll see) and then head down to Miami. It’ll be flying MIA-GUA-SJO-MIA for LAN and MIA-SDQ-MIA for StratAir. The Strat flying was supposed to be MIA-LIM-MIA but there was a change due to customs requirements on StratAir’s end.

N255CM is currently flying the route but should be coming back to CVG once 376 is on certificate.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
ILNFlyer
Posts: 287
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:34 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:22 pm

cmairplaneman wrote:
I do suspect that N794AX did get a new tail number. When I was at ILN a couple days before it took off, it did have a temporary tail number (N794AX) sticker over another tail number. I do not recall seeing N752AX at ILN. There was one 767-200 in DHL paint that was sitting in front of a hanger undergoing maintenance but couldn't tell the tail number. Maybe that was 752AX? N768VA also appeared to be getting parted out and looked like it will eventually get scrapped. I would think ATSG is using this aircraft for parts as it is sitting next to some 727's that haven't flown in years. N712AX was also still at ILN in the same area where I saw it last April. I wonder when N712AX will fly again!


I believe NV 768VA is in fact going to be scrapped......or so the rumor mill says. The 727's were previously purchased and have been used for parts to make 2 or 3 others airworthy. Those made airworthy went to a cargo operator and left ILN some time ago. The left-over 727's are going to eventually be scrapped. Some of those are old EA and AA birds.
 
cmairplaneman
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:09 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:48 pm

ILNFlyer wrote:
cmairplaneman wrote:
I do suspect that N794AX did get a new tail number. When I was at ILN a couple days before it took off, it did have a temporary tail number (N794AX) sticker over another tail number. I do not recall seeing N752AX at ILN. There was one 767-200 in DHL paint that was sitting in front of a hanger undergoing maintenance but couldn't tell the tail number. Maybe that was 752AX? N768VA also appeared to be getting parted out and looked like it will eventually get scrapped. I would think ATSG is using this aircraft for parts as it is sitting next to some 727's that haven't flown in years. N712AX was also still at ILN in the same area where I saw it last April. I wonder when N712AX will fly again!


I believe NV 768VA is in fact going to be scrapped......or so the rumor mill says. The 727's were previously purchased and have been used for parts to make 2 or 3 others airworthy. Those made airworthy went to a cargo operator and left ILN some time ago. The left-over 727's are going to eventually be scrapped. Some of those are old EA and AA birds.


I agree with N768VA. Everytime I go out there to spot, more is missing of it. Do you spot at ILN as well? I wish the 727's would fly but they are already missing some parts.
Glider Pilot & CVG/ILN Spotter
 
ILNFlyer
Posts: 287
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:34 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:05 pm

cmairplaneman wrote:
ILNFlyer wrote:
cmairplaneman wrote:
I do suspect that N794AX did get a new tail number. When I was at ILN a couple days before it took off, it did have a temporary tail number (N794AX) sticker over another tail number. I do not recall seeing N752AX at ILN. There was one 767-200 in DHL paint that was sitting in front of a hanger undergoing maintenance but couldn't tell the tail number. Maybe that was 752AX? N768VA also appeared to be getting parted out and looked like it will eventually get scrapped. I would think ATSG is using this aircraft for parts as it is sitting next to some 727's that haven't flown in years. N712AX was also still at ILN in the same area where I saw it last April. I wonder when N712AX will fly again!


I believe NV 768VA is in fact going to be scrapped......or so the rumor mill says. The 727's were previously purchased and have been used for parts to make 2 or 3 others airworthy. Those made airworthy went to a cargo operator and left ILN some time ago. The left-over 727's are going to eventually be scrapped. Some of those are old EA and AA birds.


I agree with N768VA. Everytime I go out there to spot, more is missing of it. Do you spot at ILN as well? I wish the 727's would fly but they are already missing some parts.


Yeah, I do spot here. I keep wondering how they are going to scrap 768VA out here - that will be interesting to watch. There were 5 727's here and they parted out 3 to make the 2 others airworthy.
 
AV8AJET
Posts: 1137
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:10 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:59 pm

Latest addition to the (Atlas) Amazon fleet N1489A should be making its way to the US from TPE this week.
"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
 
cmairplaneman
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:09 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:03 pm

N376AN left ILN for CVG. Any idea as to who 376AN is going to be flying for? Doesn't seem like they are going to change the tail number on this airplane.
Glider Pilot & CVG/ILN Spotter
 
AV8AJET
Posts: 1137
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:10 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:22 pm

cmairplaneman wrote:
N376AN left ILN for CVG. Any idea as to who 376AN is going to be flying for? Doesn't seem like they are going to change the tail number on this airplane.


Looks like CAM:
N376AN Boeing 767-300 Cargo Aircraft Management (CAM) Nov 2017 Cargo 2x CF6-80 A44A22
cvtd Boeing 767-300 Apr 2018 at TLV
"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
 
User avatar
Acey559
Posts: 1237
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:30 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:51 pm

367 starts a LAN contract down in MIA soon and will be flown by ATI. It just went on OpSpecs today and will probably fly domestically for a week or so before it heads to MIA.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 7055
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:32 am

Apparently, a decision was made not to change the number, and instead to operate 376AN under its AA number, at least for now. As Acey mentioned, it's gonna be doing a LATAM ACMI contract.
 
mcg
Posts: 888
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:49 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:41 am

It seems like Amazon's 767 fleet is being sourced from a wide variety of previous operators. Are there any differences in the way the planes are configured that result in operational issues for the pilots; in other words are the aircraft different enough that the differences have to be noted and 'worked around' as the aircraft are operated?

I apologize in advance if I haven't made this question clear.
 
Whiplash6
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:30 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:37 pm

mcg wrote:
It seems like Amazon's 767 fleet is being sourced from a wide variety of previous operators. Are there any differences in the way the planes are configured that result in operational issues for the pilots; in other words are the aircraft different enough that the differences have to be noted and 'worked around' as the aircraft are operated?

I apologize in advance if I haven't made this question clear.

At Atlas the aircraft are all different and tail number PDFs had to be created so you know what is available in which tail that you’ll be flying. The differences aren’t vast differences to the point where it requires a “work around” but you do have to pay attention to things like altitude intervention on the mcp, whether the a/c has gps updating or irs, whether you have satcom, cpdlc, the number of fire bottles, etc. Also, everything can be in completely different location on the center pedestal depending on which tail you’re on, so it puts a lot of the onus on the pilots. Short answer: no they’re not standardized.
 
cmairplaneman
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:09 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:36 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Apparently, a decision was made not to change the number, and instead to operate 376AN under its AA number, at least for now. As Acey mentioned, it's gonna be doing a LATAM ACMI contract.
Interesting. What paint scheme does it have right now?
Glider Pilot & CVG/ILN Spotter
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 1243
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:04 pm

Whiplash6 wrote:
.... you do have to pay attention to things like altitude intervention on the mcp, whether the a/c has gps updating or irs, whether you have satcom, cpdlc, the number of fire bottles, etc. Also, everything can be in completely different location on the center pedestal depending on which tail you’re on, so it puts a lot of the onus on the pilots. Short answer: no they’re not standardized.


Wow!! "Onus" is right, esp. in an go-around, even more in an emergency.
 
mcg
Posts: 888
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:49 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:48 pm

Whiplash6 wrote:
mcg wrote:
It seems like Amazon's 767 fleet is being sourced from a wide variety of previous operators. Are there any differences in the way the planes are configured that result in operational issues for the pilots; in other words are the aircraft different enough that the differences have to be noted and 'worked around' as the aircraft are operated?

I apologize in advance if I haven't made this question clear.

At Atlas the aircraft are all different and tail number PDFs had to be created so you know what is available in which tail that you’ll be flying. The differences aren’t vast differences to the point where it requires a “work around” but you do have to pay attention to things like altitude intervention on the mcp, whether the a/c has gps updating or irs, whether you have satcom, cpdlc, the number of fire bottles, etc. Also, everything can be in completely different location on the center pedestal depending on which tail you’re on, so it puts a lot of the onus on the pilots. Short answer: no they’re not standardized.


Thanks for the info.
 
User avatar
Acey559
Posts: 1237
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:30 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:10 am

[twoid][/twoid]
cmairplaneman wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Apparently, a decision was made not to change the number, and instead to operate 376AN under its AA number, at least for now. As Acey mentioned, it's gonna be doing a LATAM ACMI contract.
Interesting. What paint scheme does it have right now?


All white unless they added ATI decals after it arrived in Wilmington. I should be seeing it soon so I’ll report back when I do.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
KCVGSpotter
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:23 pm

N376AN arrived to CVG with a large ATI decal.
 
User avatar
Acey559
Posts: 1237
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:30 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:36 pm

KCVGSpotter wrote:
N376AN arrived to CVG with a large ATI decal.


Thanks. And the reg will be changing soon. For whatever reason, the FAA wouldn’t allow it to be changed before it was out on our OpSpecs (it is now), so I’m guessing it’ll be N344CM before long. Once the switch happens, it’ll head down to Miami.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
User avatar
BOEING777EK
Posts: 195
Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 2:09 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:17 pm

Image I'd imagine the livery of N376AN being similar to this.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 7055
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:19 pm

Acey559 wrote:
And the reg will be changing soon. For whatever reason, the FAA wouldn’t allow it to be changed before it was out on our OpSpecs (it is now), so I’m guessing it’ll be N344CM before long. Once the switch happens, it’ll head down to Miami.


And it's now on its way to MIA, still as 376AN.
 
User avatar
Acey559
Posts: 1237
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:30 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:31 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Acey559 wrote:
And the reg will be changing soon. For whatever reason, the FAA wouldn’t allow it to be changed before it was out on our OpSpecs (it is now), so I’m guessing it’ll be N344CM before long. Once the switch happens, it’ll head down to Miami.


And it's now on its way to MIA, still as 376AN.


Interesting! Thanks for the heads up. Either the change is imminent or the paperwork has been sorted out to allow it onto the Cuban permits with the current registration before it changes.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 7055
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:34 am

And N1489A (BCF) is on its way to the US from TPE after completing conversion on 6/28. Took almost exactly 5 months for Evergreen to convert and paint for the BCF program. Del 2/94 to Airtours International. LN 533.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 7055
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:42 am

Whiplash6 wrote:
At Atlas the aircraft are all different and tail number PDFs had to be created so you know what is available in which tail that you’ll be flying. The differences aren’t vast differences to the point where it requires a “work around” but you do have to pay attention to things like altitude intervention on the mcp, whether the a/c has gps updating or irs, whether you have satcom, cpdlc, the number of fire bottles, etc. Also, everything can be in completely different location on the center pedestal depending on which tail you’re on, so it puts a lot of the onus on the pilots. Short answer: no they’re not standardized.


So interesting, Whip! A slightly-different question. Because Atlas's Prime Air fleet is 11 BDSF (from IAI@TLV), 6 BCF@QPG, and now 2 BCF@TPE, I wonder if you notice any differences at all as between the conversion houses. The IAI cargo door is different, although maybe not outwardly-so. Anything else you see, from reliability to noticeable differences in work quality to the extent of alterations to feature differences? (The ATI fleet is, of course, all BDSF, because ATSG only gets its conversions done at IAI.)
 
KCVGSpotter
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:32 am

BOEING777EK wrote:
Image I'd imagine the livery of N376AN being similar to this.
SImilar, but not quite. It features the new logo and no gray on the belly of the aircraft. Exactly like N791AX.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 7055
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:28 am

Following the CAM conversions as I do, N374AA finally left ILN for its new lessee, which is Northern Aviation in MIA. It made its first revenue flight today, a SJU turn from MIA under a the Northern Air Cargo callsign.

EDIT: Found a photo. It is in a StratAir livery (as was rumoured it would be), and is being operated by NAC. Looks like the tail number is on a decal, so presumably it will be changing from N374AA to a more-CAM-like number sometime soon. Has the required "Operated by Northern Air Cargo" by the door.

Here's a link to the AirlinersGallery page with the photo by Bruce Drum: https://airlinersgallery.smugmug.com/Ai ... -QdNfd3T/A

Back to Amazon: N1619A ought to be the next conversion for Atlas now that N1489A is on property. 1619A is stil in TLV.

And 380AN, which is apparently going to Cargojet, left ROW for SNN today. Presumably on its way to TLV.

And for those who follow the Patriots planes, N225NE flew today from ILN to RFD. Presumably, AMES completed whatever maintenance it was doing on it for Team 125 (as it also does on N36NE).
 
cmairplaneman
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:09 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:19 am

Apperantly N377AN went flying today. Don’t know if it was a test flight or going to SNN. I’ll be on the lookout to see if I can go to CVG to go plane spotting to see it in its metal paint scheme before it gets painted. Also N207AX (Omni Air International) at ILN could fly back any day now.
Glider Pilot & CVG/ILN Spotter
 
leoben
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 1:36 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:43 pm

Whiplash6 wrote:

Not to make this a Colgan crash rehash, but the FO killed them when she put the flaps up. The captain got them in a very bad situation, but she made an extremely fatal mistake.




Sorry to digress further, but this is one of my hotbuttons.

There was only one true mistake - and only one solution. The guy with his hands on the yoke killed them all, and at any time he could have prevented it by simply lowering the nose. Her contributions were not optimal, and proceduraly incorrect, but only tertiary to the problem. The movement of the flaps made a minor contribution by introducing a momentary nose-up pitching moment and decreased CoL (but also a large decrease in drag), but to say that was the fatal error is risible. The shaker was active for almost the entire time, from selecting landing flaps to impact, he also fought the pusher 3 separate times. The Dash could have powered out (flaps or no flaps ) if he had just put the nose on the horizon, let alone push it over a couple of degrees and give up a little altitude. They only had to miss the trees by 1". There was little the FO could have done other than fight him for the controls, or punch him in the face- to get him to just let go (which might have been the best option, in hindsight).

Stall recovery = reducing angle of attack. Period. Full stop.
There is nothing else, unless your thrust to weight is greater than 1:1



As to the ATP rule - I believe it does have great value in that pilots must now have at least "some" experience flying around and having stuff happen to them before they get into a 121 flightdeck and watch Otto follow the magenta line to vectors to ILSs. The 121 "system" does a great job of managing risk, of standardizing, and of allowing the lowest common denominator to operate in a challenging environment. But it does NOT provide much opportunity to gain experience in anything that is outside of Normal Ops. The CA of 3407 had relatively low time before Colgan - 618 Total hours when hired. That included a stint as an "FO" at Gulfstream, so likely only a couple hundred real flying hours. A thousand hours around the pattern and practicing slow flight/ stalls with students intent on killing him would have done him (and the 49 others) a world of good. The FO did have more real world flying experience before going to Colgan. Perhaps if it had been her leg, this would all be moot.
 
cmairplaneman
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:09 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:43 am

Went to Wilmington ILN today. Here are some photos that I got. I was really upset that I was driving out there to see the Omni Air 767-200 land from its test flight and had already landed after I arrived and didn't get a great picture of it as I hoped.

N792AX: http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/ph ... 16763.html
N795AX: http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/ph ... 16698.html
N207AX: http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/ph ... 16696.html
N741AX: http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/ph ... 16693.html
N787AX: http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/ph ... 16692.html
Glider Pilot & CVG/ILN Spotter
 
wjcandee
Posts: 7055
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:42 am

Great photos, CM! I guess N207AX passed its test flight because it went back to DFW tonight. You caught it before it fled town, at least!

Interesting to see 792AX sitting there with engines off. I thought it was just going in for a check.

741AX, the Amerijet lease return, shouldn't be in storage for too long; the plan was to give it a C-check and an upgrade to the FMS, and then lease it to one of the West Atlantic airlines. But it does look pretty-stored at the moment.

Anyway, thanks for giving us a visual treat; we are aware of a lot of stuff going in and out, but don't actually get to see it!
 
User avatar
yochai
Posts: 200
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:19 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:23 am

N377AN on its way from TLV to SNN a few days ago

 
KCVGSpotter
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:34 am

wjcandee wrote:
Interesting to see 792AX sitting there with engines off. I thought it was just going in for a check.


I mentioned 792 needing the aft bulk head replaced a couple months ago in the 767 Fleet/Activity thread. A 767-200 removed from service was displayed on the ATSG 8K filings from Q1.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 7055
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:44 am

KCVG: Forgot that or missed it. I'm not sure if it's the one removed from service in Q1, given that it has only been in ILN since April 25. I thought that one was 794AX, which was exported to DHL Int'l on 1/31/18. But I could very easily be wrong. Here's hoping that ATSG will have a use for it at shrinking ABX, or at least another customer for it that would make doing the bulkhead replacement worthwhile. Maybe overly-optimistic, though.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 7055
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:48 am

yochai wrote:
N377AN on its way from TLV to SNN a few days ago


Great photo, Yochai! I too liked the AA polished look. This old gal, though, is gonna feel a lot better with a nice coat of paint and a new livery on her -- let's hope it's something spiffy!
 
User avatar
Spacepope
Posts: 3890
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:35 am

wjcandee wrote:
KCVG: Forgot that or missed it. I'm not sure if it's the one removed from service in Q1, given that it has only been in ILN since April 25. I thought that one was 794AX, which was exported to DHL Int'l on 1/31/18. But I could very easily be wrong. Here's hoping that ATSG will have a use for it at shrinking ABX, or at least another customer for it that would make doing the bulkhead replacement worthwhile. Maybe overly-optimistic, though.

I'll be e pessimist again! ATSG got way lucky in finding this Amazon work for 12 of their 762s, but now with the end of contract looming soon, the flood of 763 conversions, and the real possibility of getting stuck with a dozen unemployed 762s if not renewed, any type of major fixes like this will probably park the plane. Engines are going to get scarcer and more spendy (and have already been harvested here) and I would expect this frame to become the next parts tree once the ex-Vision airframe is picked clean.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
User avatar
BOEING777EK
Posts: 195
Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 2:09 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:51 pm

N377AN has positioned CVG-GUS
 
wjcandee
Posts: 7055
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:52 pm

BOEING777EK wrote:
N377AN has positioned CVG-GUS

Went straight to paint at Dean Baldwin's newest facility at GUS.
 
cmairplaneman
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:09 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:25 pm

Spacepope wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
KCVG: Forgot that or missed it. I'm not sure if it's the one removed from service in Q1, given that it has only been in ILN since April 25. I thought that one was 794AX, which was exported to DHL Int'l on 1/31/18. But I could very easily be wrong. Here's hoping that ATSG will have a use for it at shrinking ABX, or at least another customer for it that would make doing the bulkhead replacement worthwhile. Maybe overly-optimistic, though.

I'll be e pessimist again! ATSG got way lucky in finding this Amazon work for 12 of their 762s, but now with the end of contract looming soon, the flood of 763 conversions, and the real possibility of getting stuck with a dozen unemployed 762s if not renewed, any type of major fixes like this will probably park the plane. Engines are going to get scarcer and more spendy (and have already been harvested here) and I would expect this frame to become the next parts tree once the ex-Vision airframe is picked clean.


I saw the vision air bird 2 days ago and yes, less and less of it is there every time I go.
Glider Pilot & CVG/ILN Spotter
 
wjcandee
Posts: 7055
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:55 pm

Spacepope wrote:
ATSG got way lucky in finding this Amazon work for 12 of their 762s, but now with the end of contract looming soon ... the real possibility of getting stuck with a dozen unemployed 762s if not renewed,.


The 8-or-so DHL-US 767-200 leases are ending in 8 months unless renewed. That's a lot more immediate a threat to ATSG's 767-200 fleet than the 5 year Amazon 767-200 leases with rolling expiration dates that don't even begin to end for about 3 years. So your pessimism may be well-deserved.
 
User avatar
Spacepope
Posts: 3890
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:55 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
ATSG got way lucky in finding this Amazon work for 12 of their 762s, but now with the end of contract looming soon ... the real possibility of getting stuck with a dozen unemployed 762s if not renewed,.


The 8-or-so DHL-US 767-200 leases are ending in 8 months unless renewed. That's a lot more immediate a threat to ATSG's 767-200 fleet than the 5 year Amazon 767-200 leases with rolling expiration dates that don't even begin to end for about 3 years. So your pessimism may be well-deserved.


Serious question though: What are DHL's options when it comes to those leases? Though the old 762s aren't the largest freighters, that sort of capacity can't be replaced all at once (especially for cheap). Are the Atlas 762s part of that deal?
The last of the famous international playboys
 
wjcandee
Posts: 7055
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:21 pm

Spacepope wrote:
Serious question though: What are DHL's options when it comes to those leases? Though the old 762s aren't the largest freighters, that sort of capacity can't be replaced all at once (especially for cheap). Are the Atlas 762s part of that deal?


The 9 Atlas 762s are, I believe, all 762s that were part of the "put" deal where DHL could be forced to buy certain ABX freighters when the US operation shut down. They did so, then moved them to operation by others (Atlas). The ABX 762s are at the end of leases that were given short-term extensions to March 2019. In the meantime, folks like Kalitta have been buying and converting 767-300s; Connie will be up to 5 by the end of the year, plus he operates a DHL-owned one. DHL isn't massively-expanding its international operations in the US, and the 763s can replace the 762s in pretty-short order. As an example, DHL just pulled ABX off of ATL and gave the route to Connie with a 763. It wouldn't be hard to extend the remaining ABX 762 leases for a year or less, after which they could be replaced with newly-converted 763s operated/converted by Atlas and Connie. Absent demand from Amazon for more conversions, there will be plenty more ex-AA and other 763 conversion candidates becoming available next year, and there should be plenty of conversion slots available as well, what with the overflow lines at both MEX (BDSF) and TPE (BCF) doing fast, competent work. MEX is doing one aircraft at a time right now, and Mexicana's hangar can only fit one 763 at a time, but I'm sure they would find a way to get it done if a serious opportunity to do a year or two of 2-at-a-times presented itself. Evergreen at TPE would I'm sure be delighted to pick up the pace, and has extensive facilities. Meanwhile, TLV isn't going to be stuffed with Amazon conversions in 2019, and IAI's next obvious conversion program, the 777, isn't likely to do anything meaningful for some time yet. I would imagine a similar circumstance at the main BCF line at QPG.

There's no rational reason for DHL to switch to 767-300s if the capacity of the 767-200s is adequate and the price is better, but not all business decisions are rational, and it's not like DHL love-love-loves ABX. The pilots are...well we don't need to rehash it... and ABX's on-time performance is getting it fined by DHL these days, which the pilots are blaming on maintenance, which is interesting since ATI doesn't seem to have the same problem. It will be interesting to see the contours of whatever ABX-DHL deal is ultimately cut (hopefully relatively-soon).
 
Allee
Posts: 544
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 1999 5:47 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:49 am

KCVGSpotter wrote:
N376AN arrived to CVG with a large ATI decal.


Found a picture of N376AN:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/sjuap74/4 ... 75/in/feed
 
wjcandee
Posts: 7055
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:17 am

Allee wrote:
KCVGSpotter wrote:
N376AN arrived to CVG with a large ATI decal.


Found a picture of N376AN:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/sjuap74/4 ... 75/in/feed


Good find! Good photo! Would love to see her someday in a full ATI livery like 395CM once they are confident that they will continue to have work for her.
 
Allee
Posts: 544
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 1999 5:47 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:28 am

IMO, I believe DHL will renew the 767-200 leases to the benefit of ATSG and not ABX crews. DHL already has 5 762s in Bahrain (769, 775, 793, 794 and 796) and a possible 6th one heading there (787). For DHL, ABX only flies 7 767-300s and 3 767-200s (EWR back to ABX for time being).

There were 10 767-200M put to DHL. Only 9 went to Atlas (N789AX was scrapped).

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos