Amazon Fleet Growth - 2018

cmairplaneman · Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:13 pm

7375A is going on a test flight from ILN to ILN

yochai · Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:03 pm

N1511A is still in TLV, now schduled to leave tomorrow morning, N369AN should be heading for TLV tonight

wjcandee · Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:34 pm

cmairplaneman wrote:
7375A is going on a test flight from ILN to ILN

Photos, please! Or at least describe the livery to us...

hkcanadaexpat · Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:55 pm

looks like N387AM has been allocated to Amerijet International.

wjcandee · Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:58 pm

1511A has now arrived at PSM from TLV (4/4/18). We'll see when/where it goes for paint.

New network is up as of today. Still some slack in the Atlas fleet -- so far at least. But it looks preliminarily like a little more utilization. We'll see as these routes play out over the next few days.

Observations so far (subject to change):
As you know, Atlas all-763, ABX all-762 (6 aircraft).
No new stations.
PVD has one flight per day now, to/from CVG on ABX.
SKF has one flight per day now, to/from CVG on Atlas.
SCK is hanging in there, with a couple of flights.
ONT is huge.
All ABE flights are on ATI. Busy station for them.
4 of 6 ABX routes go through CVG. The other two are transcons.

cvgComair · Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:39 am

Looks like the media is at it again with Amazon order rumors, this time it is a modified A330-900: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -by-amazon. Probably someone's wishful thinking like that 767 article (this article doesn't seem particularly well written either), but interesting nonetheless.

wjcandee wrote:
1511A has now arrived at PSM from TLV (4/4/18). We'll see when/where it goes for paint.

New network is up as of today. Still some slack in the Atlas fleet -- so far at least. But it looks preliminarily like a little more utilization. We'll see as these routes play out over the next few days.

Observations so far (subject to change):
As you know, Atlas all-763, ABX all-762 (6 aircraft).
No new stations.
PVD has one flight per day now, to/from CVG on ABX.
SKF has one flight per day now, to/from CVG on Atlas.
SCK is hanging in there, with a couple of flights.
ONT is huge.
All ABE flights are on ATI. Busy station for them.
4 of 6 ABX routes go through CVG. The other two are transcons.

Do you or anyone else know the plans for SMF/SCK? IMO, it seems odd to be serving both cities with the fleet at its current size.

BTVB6Flyer · Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:55 am

TPA is seeing ATN, SMF-TPA and TPA-DFW.

There is still one ATN sitting at TPA, so will see where that goes probably tonight.

Still having CVG x2 (ABX and Atlas) and BWI on Atlas.

FX1816 · Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:58 am

wjcandee wrote:
1511A has now arrived at PSM from TLV (4/4/18). We'll see when/where it goes for paint.

New network is up as of today. Still some slack in the Atlas fleet -- so far at least. But it looks preliminarily like a little more utilization. We'll see as these routes play out over the next few days.

Observations so far (subject to change):
As you know, Atlas all-763, ABX all-762 (6 aircraft).
No new stations.
PVD has one flight per day now, to/from CVG on ABX.
SKF has one flight per day now, to/from CVG on Atlas.
SCK is hanging in there, with a couple of flights.
ONT is huge.
All ABE flights are on ATI. Busy station for them.
4 of 6 ABX routes go through CVG. The other two are transcons.

Is there a change to PVD because we have a flight, GTI3553 ONT-PVD. Now last night I taxied them out and they stopped and sat on TWY N for almost an hour and I thought it was a mechanical issue but they crew told me that there was something going and the CAT III ILS would not be available to them so they changed their destination to BWI. I noticed, though, a whole bunch our the flights have switched over to GTI from ATN at ONT. It was a strange night though, nearly every aircraft had a delay of some sort for various mechanical reasons. The only two that left on time, roughly, were GTI3077 to CVG and ABX3429 to CVG.

PVDspotting · Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:21 am

FX1816 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
1511A has now arrived at PSM from TLV (4/4/18). We'll see when/where it goes for paint.

New network is up as of today. Still some slack in the Atlas fleet -- so far at least. But it looks preliminarily like a little more utilization. We'll see as these routes play out over the next few days.

Observations so far (subject to change):
As you know, Atlas all-763, ABX all-762 (6 aircraft).
No new stations.
PVD has one flight per day now, to/from CVG on ABX.
SKF has one flight per day now, to/from CVG on Atlas.
SCK is hanging in there, with a couple of flights.
ONT is huge.
All ABE flights are on ATI. Busy station for them.
4 of 6 ABX routes go through CVG. The other two are transcons.

Is there a change to PVD because we have a flight, GTI3553 ONT-PVD. Now last night I taxied them out and they stopped and sat on TWY N for almost an hour and I thought it was a mechanical issue but they crew told me that there was something going and the CAT III ILS would not be available to them so they changed their destination to BWI. I noticed, though, a whole bunch our the flights have switched over to GTI from ATN at ONT. It was a strange night though, nearly every aircraft had a delay of some sort for various mechanical reasons. The only two that left on time, roughly, were GTI3077 to CVG and ABX3429 to CVG.

Interesting, I was wondering why they diverted to BWI this morning. I know the fog was thick, but I watched WN and UPS arrive with no problem with the bases reported below 200'. So PVD mist have fixed whatever the problem was with the CAT III ILS.

PVDspotting · Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:32 am

Now that I think of it, the ONT-PVD typically arrives before the tower opens at 0530. Maybe that's why the CAT III ILS wasn't available to them. But with the delay at ONT they would have arrived after the tower opened.

FlyingJhawk · Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:33 am

Forgive me but I've not been reading this thread until now. I am not familiar with Amazon's fleet utilization but I don't believe I've seen any of their a/c at MCI. Can someone give me the cliff notes version of how Amazon is routes their fleet?

wjcandee · Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:35 am

cvgComair wrote:
Do you or anyone else know the plans for SMF/SCK? IMO, it seems odd to be serving both cities with the fleet at its current size.

I have absolutely no idea.

That said, it is pretty apparent that operational issues (e.g. heavy, deep fog) at SCK in certain seasons cause real problems with morning departures/arrivals. SMF has its own issues in terms of proximity and other stuff. So while it seemed like they were going to move the whole shebang to non-optimal SMF, it appears that, at least for now, they're gonna stick with both. Obviously, this is a missed opportunity for SCK which otherwise might have been the only spot in that area; I guess it wasn't worth getting CATIII in there (or they couldn't do it fast enough).

wjcandee · Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:00 am

FlyingJhawk wrote:
Forgive me but I've not been reading this thread until now. I am not familiar with Amazon's fleet utilization but I don't believe I've seen any of their a/c at MCI. Can someone give me the cliff notes version of how Amazon is routes their fleet?

Sure. They picked the areas where they had the origin and destination facilities for their ground 2-day line-haul network onto which they could easily layer an air line-haul network. So, in the Northeast, for example, a lot of stuff comes by in-house ground line-haul to a Sort Center in Avenel, NJ, where it is routed to the Post Office, AMZL, etc. for final-mile delivery in the New York Tri-State area. So they put an air node at ABE, where stuff from various regions arrives by air and just gets routed to the Sort Center the same as ground-line-haul stuff does. It appears that the SFO area originates and terminates a lot of traffic to/from various areas of the country, as does SoCal (ONT), so those areas have a comparatively large volume of flights. They started with the lowest-hanging fruit, and they're expanding into places where their in-house-air-to-local-last-mile solution might offer a cost and/or reliability advantage. MCI is probably close enough to the hub in CVG or the station in RFD that adding an air node there doesn't add anything when you're talking about 2nd-day delivery. That's my wild guess, anyway.

wjcandee · Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:10 am

PVDspotting wrote:
Now that I think of it, the ONT-PVD typically arrives before the tower opens at 0530. Maybe that's why the CAT III ILS wasn't available to them. But with the delay at ONT they would have arrived after the tower opened.

Does Atlas have the training/certification to do CATIII autolands on its 767s? I know ABX does.

wjcandee · Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:20 am

FX1816 wrote:
Is there a change to PVD because we have a flight, GTI3553 ONT-PVD. Now last night I taxied them out and they stopped and sat on TWY N for almost an hour and I thought it was a mechanical issue but they crew told me that there was something going and the CAT III ILS would not be available to them so they changed their destination to BWI. I noticed, though, a whole bunch our the flights have switched over to GTI from ATN at ONT. It was a strange night though, nearly every aircraft had a delay of some sort for various mechanical reasons. The only two that left on time, roughly, were GTI3077 to CVG and ABX3429 to CVG.

Looks like GTI3553 ONT-PVD stays in the new schedule w/no change from the old. So I was wrong and PVD has two flights, one from ONT and one from BWI on ABX.

In the new schedule, looks like ONT is going to have 2 flights on ATI, at least 5 on GTI and a GTI spare, and one on ABX. Subject to further movements over the next few days proving me wrong.

Not surprised that with some switching around of the carriers, there would be delays on the first night.

wjcandee · Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:23 am

cvgComair wrote:
Looks like the media is at it again with Amazon order rumors, this time it is a modified A330-900

Yikes. More 767-sized aircraft, and new-builds at that. Huh. Color me dubious.

This rumour, of course, presupposes that Amazon wants/needs more than 40 767-sized aircraft for their US air network in the near future. Maybe when the leases expire on the oldest aircraft? Maybe some time after they get their own ramp/sort at CVG (if that ever happens)? Seems like we have at least 3 more years on the 767-200s, and they seem frankly to be working pretty-well mechanically, despite them being older than my girlfriend... :-)

Also, not for nothing but there seem to be a not-insignificant number of completed-conversion Atlas aircraft sitting around waiting to be given a route. It's not like Amazon Air is scrambling to find equipment to meet the current demand.

Frankly, if indeed there are any discussions with Amazon, my own EWAG is that it is the result of someone on the team being asked to prepare a report on options down the road, not a discussion of current needs. Hard to fathom why a reputedly-penny-pinching company like Amazon would spend ten times the price for a new operating asset when good used is still available. Amazon spends a gazillion dollars a year on new equipment, but it does so because of a solid cost-benefit analysis of the expenditures. Otherwise, it would be spending two-gazillion dollars, and it is known to be a place that doesn't waste money.

FX1816 · Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:55 am

PVDspotting wrote:
Now that I think of it, the ONT-PVD typically arrives before the tower opens at 0530. Maybe that's why the CAT III ILS wasn't available to them. But with the delay at ONT they would have arrived after the tower opened.

That is what I thought they might have meant that the tower wouldn't be staffed but I didn't want to bug them too much but with the amount of time they spent on the taxiway I figured it would be open by then.

FX1816 · Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:02 am

wjcandee wrote:
FX1816 wrote:
Is there a change to PVD because we have a flight, GTI3553 ONT-PVD. Now last night I taxied them out and they stopped and sat on TWY N for almost an hour and I thought it was a mechanical issue but they crew told me that there was something going and the CAT III ILS would not be available to them so they changed their destination to BWI. I noticed, though, a whole bunch our the flights have switched over to GTI from ATN at ONT. It was a strange night though, nearly every aircraft had a delay of some sort for various mechanical reasons. The only two that left on time, roughly, were GTI3077 to CVG and ABX3429 to CVG.

Looks like GTI3553 ONT-PVD stays in the new schedule w/no change from the old. So I was wrong and PVD has two flights, one from ONT and one from BWI on ABX.

In the new schedule, looks like ONT is going to have 2 flights on ATI, at least 5 on GTI and a GTI spare, and one on ABX. Subject to further movements over the next few days proving me wrong.

Not surprised that with some switching around of the carriers, there would be delays on the first night.

Yeah it was very strange to see how many left late and one GTI3560 pushed out then pulled back in to the gate after about 15 minutes. What I'm curious about now though is their future plans at ONT. We hear through the grapevine that they plan to be up to around 15 flights a day but I'm not sure where they would park anymore aircraft unless they were to have some flights during the day along with the remaining night flights. It's crazy to think that a little over a year ago the whole Amazon operation had a lot of room using the old terminal which had been redesigned to have 8 767 sized gates and now we are running out of room. ABX even parks across TWY G at the International Arrivals terminal but there isn't too much room left there either. Not that I'm complaining about the extra traffic to work!!

CallmeJB · Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:21 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Does Atlas have the training/certification to do CATIII autolands on its 767s? I know ABX does.

Yes, Atlas is CAT II/III trained and certified on all of its 767s.

wjcandee · Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:40 pm

CallmeJB wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Does Atlas have the training/certification to do CATIII autolands on its 767s? I know ABX does.

Yes, Atlas is CAT II/III trained and certified on all of its 767s.

Thank you! I assumed they were, but you know that they say about assuming... I know that AStar wasn't, which surprised me and apparently made a difference sometimes.

cmairplaneman · Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:15 pm

Found a picture of an Air Inchon 767-300 at ILN which I suspect is N7375A. There even is an SBA Airlines 757-200 sitting next to it in the picture which I have no idea why it’s there. I may get some photos later

wjcandee · Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:11 am

cmairplaneman wrote:
Found a picture of an Air Inchon 767-300 at ILN which I suspect is N7375A. There even is an SBA Airlines 757-200 sitting next to it in the picture which I have no idea why it’s there. I may get some photos later

You are correct, Sir. The only interesting thing is that when it went out on a test flight the other day, it carried an ATI callsign. Air Incheon has an option on a second 763. The lessor isn't going to be CAM, but rather another ATSG subsidiary, ATSG West Leasing Ltd., an Irish sub that does international leasing. I would love to see how the Air Incheon livery looks on the 763. ATSG West Leasing also leases two 737 freighters to the same company. I supposed it's possible that one of the ATSG carriers will crew the thing, but my understanding was that this was a dry lease.

The SBA Airlines aircraft really isn't titled to SBA anymore. They had leased it from Sky Holding Company for about ten years, and it was returned to them. In March 2018, it was given a US tail number, N633SH, and presumably sent to ILN to be worked on by AMES. Sky Holding is a lessor of mostly mid-life jets, so this is typical of what they do. Probably won't repaint it until after maintenance, and until after it is re-leased to somebody. It's about 28 years old, so it still has some life in it.

1337Delta764 · Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:56 am

Note that just a little update on Amazon's local fulfillment centers in the Phoenix area, they did open a new fulfillment center in Phoenix last fall, TUS1, although I have yet to receive any items from there. They ran out of PHX codes so they used TUS. TUS1 handles small sortable items.

Also, PHX3 has been recently reconfigured to handle apparel and footwear (it was previously large sortable). This leaves PHX6 doing both small and large sortable, and PHX5 (Goodyear) and PHX7 doing non-sortable (oversize items or items with irregular dimensions). PHX8 is the Sortation Center. PHX1 and PHX2 closed when PHX3 opened. From what I heard, PHX4 was a temporary fulfillment center. PHX9 was a seasonal fulfillment center in Tolleson.

wjcandee · Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:24 am

1337Delta764 wrote:
Note that just a little update on Amazon's local fulfillment centers in the Phoenix area, they did open a new fulfillment center in Phoenix last fall, TUS1, although I have yet to receive any items from there. They ran out of PHX codes so they used TUS. TUS1 handles small sortable items.

Also, PHX3 has been recently reconfigured to handle apparel and footwear (it was previously large sortable). This leaves PHX6 doing both small and large sortable, and PHX5 (Goodyear) and PHX7 doing non-sortable (oversize items or items with irregular dimensions). PHX8 is the Sortation Center. PHX1 and PHX2 closed when PHX3 opened. From what I heard, PHX4 was a temporary fulfillment center. PHX9 was a seasonal fulfillment center in Tolleson.

I love reading your reports on these things. The insight to how the exceptionally-well-run fulfillment operation functions in one area is really interesting!

wjcandee · Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:35 am

Oops, brain cramp. When I said this, "ATSG West Leasing also leases two 737 freighters to the same company," I was mistaken. The two 737-400s that ATSG West leases out right now are for Okay Airways, not Air Incheon.

However, PEMCO is converting another 737-400 for Air Incheon, to add to its current two-737 fleet. Not clear whether ATSG West is leasing it to them, or whether they made some other financial arrangement for it.

cmairplaneman · Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:59 am

From the phot I saw, the old SNA bird was just sitting outside like the Asian Air 767 that’s been there and hasn’t flown for over a year. Hopefully I can go in the near future to see the bird

travaz · Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:43 pm

With AA's big order of 787's to replace their 767's, there should be some fairly young frames hitting the conversion market. I read on another forum that part of AA's decision to retire all of the 67's is the value of the frames in the conversion market. These are reported to be replacements for 24 767's and 22 A330's = 46. The order of 787 was for 47 so could be some good 67's that will hit the market in a few years.

wjcandee · Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:05 am

So...an interesting GTI flight tonight on N1997A, a Prime Air aircraft. ONT-HNL. GTI3598.

I had a look at what was happening with Aloha Cargo's 6-day-per-week flight, and it has been essentially on-time the past two weeks; certainly no operational issue that would necessitate a Prime Air run to HNL in order to recover that flight. (It is a reasonable EWAG that Aloha Cargo carries some Amazon.) And looking quickly at other cargo flights that normally run LAX-HNL (e.g. Kalitta), it looks like they also are basically operating normally. So...interesting question why this flight was necessary.

I was also trying to think of a reason, like a holiday, that would cause a spike of demand for Amazon parcels that couldn't be handled by the existing carriers, but Prince Kuhio Day was in late March, so that isn't it.

Understand that Atlas doesn't just get to take a Prime Air aircraft and send it on a cargo flight that Atlas needs to make. It is dry-leased to Amazon by an Atlas subsidiary, so, even if Amazon Air has more Atlas-operable aircraft on hand right now than it absolutely-needs, Atlas can't just do what it wants with it. And this one, 1997A, is one that has been in regular use since the beginning, so it's not one that maybe hasn't been delivered officially yet, or whatnot. So, either Atlas had a desperate need that it was able to convince Amazon to let it cover with one of the ONT spares (very unlikely), or Amazon saw a need to send one of its planes, with an Amazon-range flight number, on a trip to HNL.

The last flight like this that I know of was when Amazon Air sent one of the Prime Air aircraft to SJU after the hurricane to bring relief supplies donated by Amazon. And while my memory may be failing me, I don't think that that was even the original plan of how to get them there, despite the fact that the Prime Air aircraft ultimately made for a nice photo-op emphasizing Amazon's philanthropy. I think instead that the cargo was supposed to go on that Peruvian DC8 that some of us have enjoyed seeing in service. That's the DC8 which promptly got banned from Colombia during this year's Flower Season for using every inch of the departure runway to get off the ground, having decided to self-dispatch rather than using the approved dispatch contractor at the Colombian airport. Almost a catastrophe. Oops. Anyway, the Peruvian aircraft apparently never arrived to carry the Amazon load, if I recall media reports at the time, so Amazon arranged a Prime Air liveried aircraft to make the trip.

Anyway, this was interesting to me. Something different in what otherwise has been a very-stable state of things these days.

wjcandee · Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:25 am

cmairplaneman wrote:
From the phot I saw, the old SNA bird was just sitting outside like the Asian Air 767 that’s been there and hasn’t flown for over a year. Hopefully I can go in the near future to see the bird

Let us know what you find. The owner sent it to ILN from MIA for some reason. And it's not like ILN is exactly ROW. That Asian Air aircraft is only there because it is a CAM lease return. It's a passenger aircraft that was never converted, and I don't think CAM has a clear idea of what to do with it, beyond deciding not to leave it parked at DMK.

Allee · Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:57 am

wjcandee wrote:
cmairplaneman wrote:
7375A is going on a test flight from ILN to ILN

Photos, please! Or at least describe the livery to us...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127817045@N08/40426516755

wjcandee · Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:38 am

Allee: Awesome!! Thanks! So N7375A has been officially exported to Korea and now bears registration HL8319.

Interesting variation on the Air Incheon livery on the tail. Different from the 737-400s. I don't know what Cello (tm) is supposed to mean, but I guess we'll see.

Meanwhile, 387AM now shows officially in the FAA database its planned number change to 378CX. It will be going to Amerijet.

CallmeJB · Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:13 pm

wjcandee wrote:
So...an interesting GTI flight tonight on N1997A, a Prime Air aircraft. ONT-HNL. GTI3598.
...
Anyway, this was interesting to me. Something different in what otherwise has been a very-stable state of things these days.

This is a new regularly scheduled Prime Air route. With the delivery of N1427A last week, the airframe count was sufficient for Atlas and Amazon to finally be able to add this route to the network. It is scheduled to operate something less than daily but more than weekly (not sure off the top of my head).

This schedule change and a couple of upcoming changes will result in Atlas having seven to eight daily departures from ONT. This coincides with the internal announcement that Atlas will be opening an ONT 767 pilot domicile this summer (announced last week).

Needless to say, the addition of a regular HNL route should be exciting for all of us that follow the Amazon Fleet Growth, and for those that live in HI.

wjcandee · Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:14 am

Thanks CallmeJB! And I was wrong about the tail number. I know that FR24 initially said it was 1997A, but it turns out to be 1217A. Weird. Anyway, an interesting development! I guess there are enough aircraft available that if the thing goes tech in HNL, it doesn't create a fiasco in the rest of the system...

It will be interesting as well to see what if any effect this has on the other cargo carriers flying this route. I don't have a sense of how much is sent by forwarder/cargo-carrier to Amazon local delivery (and USPS) and how much goes by FedEx and UPS, which ply the CONUS-HNL route many times daily.

It will also be interesting to see if Amazon has arranged to take anything back to ONT on the return trip. At least on this round-trip, the flight profile (initial altitude, time to altitude) suggests (although is hardly conclusive given the givens) that the westbound flight was a good bit heavier than the eastbound one -- although obviously fuel factors into it as well: the westbound one was an hour-longer flight time.

wjcandee · Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:01 am

And it looks like N376AN did a test flight yesterday (4/9/18) TLV-TLV. So I imagine that we will see a delivery (and hopefully some photos from our TLV spotters) shortly.

If so, that's almost exactly 5 months from arrival to completion at TLV.

yochai · Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:54 am

N376AN will go on anotther test flight tomorrow morning, N369AA has been rescheduled to leave ILN for TLV later tonight.

frmrCapCadet · Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:25 pm

A friend some 30 years ago moved to Hawaii joining a team to preserve the agricultural industry. It didn't work. Could the availability of inexpensive air freight going east make a difference?

skyspa · Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:47 am

Are there any new routes being planned or rumored for the 13 new 763s on order from Atlas? There are several cities that I think are lacking from Prime Air's network.

Does anybody have a list of the currently served destinations as of now? I can't seem to find it anywhere.

wjcandee · Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:58 am

Current destinations:

DFW, ABE, SEA, CVG, PHX, SMF, RFD, SEA, TPA, ONT, CLT, IAH, SCK, BWI, PVD, SKF, HNL

Acey559 · Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:12 pm

Mildly interesting update regarding the ATI fleet: It appears that all the AMZ aircraft are being approved for ETOPS. I had heard rumors for a while but we received a manual revision this morning making it official. 307, 311 and 313 are now approved, and I presume all or most will be going forward. When this whole thing started, it was stated that Amazon was the one who made the decision to end ETOPS for the frames they were buying. Now, it seems, they have realized that they want or need it, whether due to operational needs going forward (as we’ve seen with the addition of HNL) or because of maintenance as ETOPS aircraft are typically more reliable. Either way, that’s the latest and greatest. Been really quiet of late.

1337Delta764 · Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:28 pm

I wonder if Amazon Air could eventually start flights to SJU. Considering they now fly to HNL, I wonder if SJU could also be a possibility, perhaps from CVG. This would reduce their dependence on ParcelPool/International Bridge by potentially providing more reliable service.

cmairplaneman · Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:54 am

N369AA is on its way to TLV from ILN

travaz · Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:11 am

Acey559 wrote:
Mildly interesting update regarding the ATI fleet: It appears that all the AMZ aircraft are being approved for ETOPS. I had heard rumors for a while but we received a manual revision this morning making it official. 307, 311 and 313 are now approved, and I presume all or most will be going forward. When this whole thing started, it was stated that Amazon was the one who made the decision to end ETOPS for the frames they were buying. Now, it seems, they have realized that they want or need it, whether due to operational needs going forward (as we’ve seen with the addition of HNL) or because of maintenance as ETOPS aircraft are typically more reliable. Either way, that’s the latest and greatest. Been really quiet of late.

Would HNL China be an option with a 767? AMZ could haul goods for hire and for their own needs or for third party sellers. TATL? Interesting development

travaz · Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:29 am

Here is a thread about Samsung leasing 2 767 from Air Inchon (ATSG leased these to Air Inchon) Seems everyone wants to control their own freight.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1391329

Add link

wjcandee · Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:02 am

Thanks for the thread about what the Air Incheon 767 freighters will be used for.

Most significantly, it explained why the tails of the AIr Incheon 767s say "Cello" on the tail whereas the 737s just continue the cool pattern livery.

So Cello is the name of Samsung's distribution arm. Ish.

1337Delta764 · Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:55 pm

Also, if anyone from Hawaii could share some information if they have a package shipped via Amazon Air it would be interesting to know if they are dropped off at the SCF level or the DDU level. I wonder what this will mean for ParcelPool/International Bridge.

wjcandee · Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:36 am

1337Delta764 wrote:
Also, if anyone from Hawaii could share some information if they have a package shipped via Amazon Air it would be interesting to know if they are dropped off at the SCF level or the DDU level. I wonder what this will mean for ParcelPool/International Bridge.

Interesting question. I'm assuming that they were forwarding Amazon packages on a variety of carriers to Hawaii (and PR?), and then arranging for DDU-level injection and final-mile by the USPS. That's at least their usual program for their stateside customers. I don't know why USPS final-mile wouldn't be used by AFS (now ASI) as well, so presumably it's the air component and delivery to USPS that would shift over to ASI. But if the flight isn't going daily, I wonder whether other Amazon shipments to Hawaii would still use International Bridge. Aloha Cargo certainly wants to maintain whatever level of Amazon it is carrying (presumably for International Bridge?), so it will be interesting to see how this shakes out. Of course, a rising tide floats all boats, so maybe losing business isn't something that's going to happen in any meaningful way... Also, Aloha Cargo only flies six days a week, so there's an opportunity to fill a hole there.

wjcandee · Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:42 am

This whole Hawaii thing also raises the question of which Atlas-Titan-Andromeda Amazon Air aircraft are currently ETOPS-certified. I'm guessing 1217A is, because it did the Hawaii run on Sunday. Are any of the rest certified? Will they be now that Amazon seems to have about-faced in terms of what maintenance standard it wants to apply to its leased aircraft?

travaz · Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:04 am

Acey559 wrote:
Mildly interesting update regarding the ATI fleet: It appears that all the AMZ aircraft are being approved for ETOPS. I had heard rumors for a while but we received a manual revision this morning making it official. 307, 311 and 313 are now approved, and I presume all or most will be going forward. When this whole thing started, it was stated that Amazon was the one who made the decision to end ETOPS for the frames they were buying. Now, it seems, they have realized that they want or need it, whether due to operational needs going forward (as we’ve seen with the addition of HNL) or because of maintenance as ETOPS aircraft are typically more reliable. Either way, that’s the latest and greatest. Been really quiet of late.

Acey info above.

wjcandee · Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:22 am

Oh, sorry, wasn't clear. I know that at least some (and maybe all) ATI aircraft (i.e. leased from CAM) are getting ETOPS.

The question was about "Atlas-Andromeda-Titan" -- meaning the OTHER leased fleet. And I don't think that you just wave a wand and voila they're all certified. So I assume that it's a process. And, so, for that reason, I was wondering which aircraft other than 1217A are now ETOPS-certified and which will so become. (1217A must be, because you don't get to fly twin Part 121 or 135 aircraft to Hawaii without ETOPS, even all-cargo aircraft that are twins, which this one is. 3 or more motors on an all-cargo aircraft, different rules. 2 or fewer on an all-cargo aircraft, ETOPS, just like pax aircraft. The ETOPS rules of course apply to all pax transport-category aircraft.)

PVDspotting · Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:04 am

wjcandee wrote:
Oh, sorry, wasn't clear. I know that at least some (and maybe all) ATI aircraft (i.e. leased from CAM) are getting ETOPS.

The question was about "Atlas-Andromeda-Titan" -- meaning the OTHER leased fleet. And I don't think that you just wave a wand and voila they're all certified. So I assume that it's a process. And, so, for that reason, I was wondering which aircraft other than 1217A are now ETOPS-certified and which will so become. (1217A must be, because you don't get to fly twin Part 121 or 135 aircraft to Hawaii without ETOPS, even all-cargo aircraft that are twins, which this one is. 3 or more motors on an all-cargo aircraft, different rules. 2 or fewer on an all-cargo aircraft, ETOPS, just like pax aircraft. The ETOPS rules of
course apply to all pax transport-category aircraft.)

I've spotted many of the Atlas Prime Air birds and they all say ETOPS on them.

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