Frontier adds three new destinations from PHL to IND, GRR, and DFW. IND and GRR starts on April 9, 2018 and DFW will start on May 17, 2018.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.philly.c ... famphtml=y

They are also adding Tulsa to SJC & IAD.

usairways85 wrote:

I am curious how some of the F9 PHL adds will work out, especially as AA added the same routes.

GRR has had AA to PHL twice daily with a 50 seater for at least 2 years now, then they're increase to 3 daily 50 seater's the day before F9 starts.

I am curious how some of the F9 PHL adds will work out, especially as AA added the same routes.

Always good to see growth but these adds are bizarre. Obviously the folks in DEN know something I dont; be interesting to see how the retAliAtion plays.

They really like GRR, but that's a good thing, GRR needed ULCC flights other than Allegiant. I suspect GRR will eventually get MIA and TPA too.

usairways85 wrote:

I am curious how some of the F9 PHL adds will work out, especially as AA added the same routes.

PHL-CMH was one of the original F9 cities this time around and I don't think it made it to year 2.

I assume these routes are all seasonal, for the summer.

The two most interesting routes to me are TUL-IAD and TUL-SJC - I hsve my fingers crossed for both.

mariner

FLYKTPA wrote:

They are also adding Tulsa to SJC & IAD.

Wednesday and Saturday only service. Interesting... Tulsa doesn't have any service to the Bay Area currently and I'm not sure Allegiant is still operating TUL-BWI, otherwise this will be TUL's only DC area service. Flight times actually aren't bad on the IAD flights but are horrendous on the SJC flights. I'll be interested to see how the SJC flights do since TUL has been trying to establish itself as the "Tech City" in Oklahoma.

OKCDCA wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

They are also adding Tulsa to SJC & IAD.

Wednesday and Saturday only service. Interesting... Tulsa doesn't have any service to the Bay Area currently and I'm not sure Allegiant is still operating TUL-BWI, otherwise this will be TUL's only DC area service. Flight times actually aren't bad on the IAD flights but are horrendous on the SJC flights. I'll be interested to see how the SJC flights do since TUL has been trying to establish itself as the "Tech City" in Oklahoma.

G4 runs TUL-BWI and Monday/Friday still in the summer. Starts back up in May.

OKCDCA wrote:

Flight times actually aren't bad on the IAD flights but are horrendous on the SJC flights.

I get leave TUL at 7.19pm and arrive SJC 8.44pm Leave SJC 7.20 am and arrive TUL at 12.34 pm.

What's so "horrendous" about any of those?

mariner

The DFW add is very interesting. They’ll be competing head to head against American, Spirit, and Southwest (to DAL). What equipment will they be using? A321?
EDIT: I did a dummy booking and its showing as an A320. Fares start at only $39 for non-club members. Dirt cheap for a 3 hour flight!

FLYKTPA wrote:

They are also adding Tulsa to SJC & IAD.

Those Tulsa routes don't seem like they'd be very well-performing routes...

I know from experience that AA commands a huge premium DFW-PHL, and Spirit once you add carry on fees is close to the same. it will be good to have competition in that market to drive down the pricing.

If Frontier can sell seats from TUL to SAN and SJC, MEM sure as hell can.

These flights must be available due to the recent ISP reductions.

Frontier 14

Frontier14 wrote:

These flights must be available due to the recent ISP reductions.

Frontier 14

No, because ISP has MSP, ATL and DTW starting up in Apr. to replace them.

PHL-DFW is 3x weekly, A320
PHL-IND is 2x weekly (MF), A320
PHL-GRR is 2x weekly (MF), A320

FIrst time F9 will serve DFW and GRR but they did prior serve IND from PHL for one summer season two years back.
IND and GRR will be the only F9 flights at PHL that are less than 3x weekly.

There are actually 9 new routes (8 new and one year-round from seasonal):
COS - ATL
DEN - RSW (now year-round)
LAS - RDU
MIA - SJU
PHL - DFW
PHL - GRR
PHL - IND
TUL - SJC
TUL - IAD

I suggest someone changes the title to something a little more generic about a F9 expansion

OslPhlWasChi wrote:

.....PHL-GRR is 2x weekly (MF), A320

FIrst time F9 will serve DFW and GRR.......IND and GRR will be the only F9 flights at PHL that are less than 3x weekly.

F9 has been operating GRR- MCO & RSW since December. In the past, F9 operated GRR-DEN from 2010 into 2013.

usairways85 wrote:

I am curious how some of the F9 PHL adds will work out, especially as AA added the same routes.

Atleast with PHL-DFW, even in season, it's still inferior to NK's service on the route, as NK flies daily. Maybe if one needs the extra 10lbs of checked baggage (NK permits 40lbs while F9 is at 50lbs), F9 will work better though over NK, in the comparison of the ULCC service. Not only is NK daily, but it offers DFW-ATL-PHL, etc. (last year, I was late at the DFW TSA checkpoint, NK gate agent put me on a 1-stop)

I'm somewhat surprised F9 can't make PHL-IAH work daily, so it selects PHL-DFW to fly as well, where NK and WN have nonstops between the markets.

AA was offering $99 Basic Economy fares (and for seats on flights less than a week away) on it's hub-hub last year as well, several times. Cheaper fares were more available on DFW-PHL over DFW-BWI even though BWI is the Southwest hub where the greater presence of LCC should drive fares to be lower than to PHL, an AA "fortress" hub.

But F9's strength is at PHL, so that should help and the Sun/Thursday days it's offered should be popular as those are strong travel days.

DFW-PHL is a red-eye.

23:30-04:00

If you can even call that a red eye. Does this take the cake as the most awful red eye in the country?

mariner wrote:

OKCDCA wrote:

Flight times actually aren't bad on the IAD flights but are horrendous on the SJC flights.

I get leave TUL at 7.19pm and arrive SJC 8.44pm Leave SJC 7.20 am and arrive TUL at 12.34 pm.

What's so "horrendous" about any of those?

mariner

Using my Oklahoma perspective, there aren't a lot of people traveling from the Bay Area to Tulsa, at least that I'm aware of. If this is going after leisure travelers, specifically people from Tulsa going to the Bay Area, you essentially don't get a whole day in the area and still have to pay for a place to stay that night and then have to pay for a place to stay the night before you leave rather than flying out the afternoon/evening of your last day. Just my two cents, I'm sure others would find these times great but not me.

Boy does it seem like F9 is struggling to put it's capacity to use. The one a day or even lower frequencies they offer (as well as contingency plans due to flight delays/cancellations) are simply unacceptable to business travelers. Yet flying routs on non-leisure destinations such as IND to PHL? I'm sure Frontier does just fine to Florida or Vegas or even to RDU for summer outer banks traffic, or SEA for summer cruise traffic, but some of these other flights? I just have to point to Cleveland my home where they went in with guns blazing but withdrew very quickly from a lot of the head scratcher routes such as these new ones.

ncflyer wrote:

Boy does it seem like F9 is struggling to put it's capacity to use. The one a day or even lower frequencies they offer (as well as contingency plans due to flight delays/cancellations) are simply unacceptable to business travelers. Yet flying routs on non-leisure destinations such as IND to PHL?

You probably don't remember but the less-than-daily service saved Frontier's butt. It was the first actual sign of the turnaround after the disastrous Republic days, with TTN as the most visible sign of it - less than daily service and not just to Florida.

As for PHL, I've always understood that Frontier does extremely well there in summer - misery in winter of course, except for the Caribbean, Mexico and Florida.

mariner

F9 apparently pulled COS-SJC before it launched, per the COS paper.

n7371f wrote:

F9 apparently pulled COS-SJC before it launched, per the COS paper.

http://gazette.com/frontier-airlines-ad ... le/1620165

COS-LAX is cut as well, I wonder if COS-RSW/TPA will return next year.....

bridge29 wrote:

DFW-PHL is a red-eye.

23:30-04:00

If you can even call that a red eye. Does this take the cake as the most awful red eye in the country?

I missed that, but you're right, it's a red-eye. I wonder why fly DFW-PHL then at all, when it's so inferior to the other options in this market, including it's peer competitor NK, that I mentioned. It should have looked into DFW-PVD: there is a lack of nonstop in this market, and the flight would arrive at PVD around 5am as a red-eye.

ncflyer wrote:

Boy does it seem like F9 is struggling to put it's capacity to use. The one a day or even lower frequencies they offer (as well as contingency plans due to flight delays/cancellations) are simply unacceptable to business travelers. Yet flying routs on non-leisure destinations such as IND to PHL? I'm sure Frontier does just fine to Florida or Vegas or even to RDU for summer outer banks traffic, or SEA for summer cruise traffic, but some of these other flights? I just have to point to Cleveland my home where they went in with guns blazing but withdrew very quickly from a lot of the head scratcher routes such as these new ones.

For it's domestic network, it has success on routes to/from MCO, LAS and DEN, with some success at MIA/TPA/PBI/RSW seasonally. It hasn't been able to replicate the success that NK has on other domestic flows.

TTN is success in a small way. Not that many ASMs into TTN from it's overall network. It hasn't returned on several of those routes once added and the fulcrum is TTN-MCO. Even at PHL, it's success is largely stemmed to PHL-MCO where it's daily and not a low frequency service.

bridge29 wrote:

DFW-PHL is a red-eye.

23:30-04:00

If you can even call that a red eye. Does this take the cake as the most awful red eye in the country?

There are far shorter redeyes, like flights between Florida and Puerto Rico (including F9's MIA-SJU) and Spirit redeyes from the Northeast to FLL.

phluser wrote:

For it's domestic network, it has success on routes to/from MCO, LAS and DEN, with some success at MIA/TPA/PBI/RSW seasonally. It hasn't been able to replicate the success that NK has on other domestic flows.

I'm surprised you didn't mention CVG. Or ORD.

phluser wrote:

TTN is success in a small way. Not that many ASMs into TTN from it's overall network. It hasn't returned on several of those routes once added and the fulcrum is TTN-MCO. Even at PHL, it's success is largely stemmed to PHL-MCO where it's daily and not a low frequency service.

TTN won't ever be much more than it is until it gets a new - decent size - terminal.

mariner

MAH4546 wrote:

bridge29 wrote:

DFW-PHL is a red-eye.

23:30-04:00

If you can even call that a red eye. Does this take the cake as the most awful red eye in the country?

There are far shorter redeyes, like flights between Florida and Puerto Rico (including F9's MIA-SJU) and Spirit redeyes from the Northeast to FLL.

I know everyone has their own definition, but I don't really consider a flight that leaves at 22:25 and lands at 01:02 to be a red-eye (F9's MIA-SJU). You still have time to land and get a decent sleep. If you're landing after 4am, it's essentially morning by the time you get to your destination.