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ctrabs0114
Posts: 454
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:51 am

What I took out of it from a PIT perspective is how the LFs for MDW (from PIT: 70.7; to PIT: 64.9) and BWI (68.6 from PIT, 72.3 to PIT) were below the network average. The seasonal MSY service didn't seem to do so well either, or at least the PIT-MSY segment (58.6 outbound to MSY? ouch).
2018: BWI, PIT, MDW, MCI, STL, DAL, ATL, BNA
 
ericm2031
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:22 am

WN's DEN growth has been impressive and the loads are very strong...with UA and F9 there, I wonder how strong the yields are...apparently they are the O&D leader though so that's gotta help.
 
OKCDCA
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:03 pm

AWACSooner wrote:
SumChristianus wrote:
OKC 74.1%
MCO 86.0%

And yet WN won't give us full-time MCO service...just the sporadic once-a-week crap...and NO THEME PLANE! :evil: :mad: :evil:

It has been so frustrating to watch the way WN has treated OKC post Wright Amendment. I get it, OKC was a lot more attractive when it fulfilled the one-stop requirement out of DAL but even then, they've taken away the MCI and ATL flights, and knocked MDW down to 1x daily. And no theme plane is frustrating as well, the OK flag would look great on the side of a 737!
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:14 pm

ericm2031 wrote:
WN's DEN growth has been impressive and the loads are very strong...with UA and F9 there, I wonder how strong the yields are...apparently they are the O&D leader though so that's gotta help.


Considering that sometimes they bump MEM/MCO up to 3x daily on the weekends during Spring Break along with the F9 and G4 flights and seasonal Sat only Delta flights during the same period, the lack of service to MCO from OKC and TUL is kinda mindboggling.
 
WNflyer1523
Posts: 251
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:06 pm

I noticed ISP is a bit down compared to 2016. Probably due to sharp competition by Frontier.
Maybe it's different this year, they've increased frequency on a few flights, and are sending more -800's?
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:24 pm

This sounds like it could be big: https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/66031-southwest-mulls-large-b737-max-order.
The Midwest's (WN's HEARTland) and (I assume) the US economy seems to have taken off in the past few years, but WN is pretty bullish.
Even though I like growth, I hope they don't devolve into a needless and loss-making capacity war with UA and the ULCC's
.
Hope they all can be successful now!

What would WN do with say 300 more 737s and a fleet of, say a thousand planes? They would seem to be forced to go into smaller markets or build up true "hubs" to utilize that many planes. MDW can't grow much more, DEN has a resurgent United, NYC and BOS are saturated, the west coast is pretty gate constrained, and ULCCs are expanding into their leisure markets. Do they expect a PHX drawdown by AA, a competitor to go out of business, or be acquired, etc.?

Hawaii and the Carribean can only take so many planes as well, it just seems like WN will need some smaller planes, not many routes can fill 2x or 3x daily 737-800 (or larger) without a hub on one or either end.

In terms of connecting pasengers I'd say that WN already effectively has small hubs, but that's another debate.
A Traddie wannaby---UA DL LH NW AA --- Next DEN-IND (to be decided) Any suggestions?
"Born in Wonder, Brought to Wisdom"
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:36 pm

WN has 7,331 domestic PDEW connecting through DEN (Q3 2017) less than UA's 18,213 PDEW through DEN but similar to UA's 9,768 PDEW connecting through SFO domestically, so I'd say DEN is almost a hub for WN.
A Traddie wannaby---UA DL LH NW AA --- Next DEN-IND (to be decided) Any suggestions?
"Born in Wonder, Brought to Wisdom"
 
airzona11
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:46 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
This sounds like it could be big: https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/66031-southwest-mulls-large-b737-max-order.
The Midwest's (WN's HEARTland) and (I assume) the US economy seems to have taken off in the past few years, but WN is pretty bullish.
Even though I like growth, I hope they don't devolve into a needless and loss-making capacity war with UA and the ULCC's
.
Hope they all can be successful now!

What would WN do with say 300 more 737s and a fleet of, say a thousand planes? They would seem to be forced to go into smaller markets or build up true "hubs" to utilize that many planes. MDW can't grow much more, DEN has a resurgent United, NYC and BOS are saturated, the west coast is pretty gate constrained, and ULCCs are expanding into their leisure markets. Do they expect a PHX drawdown by AA, a competitor to go out of business, or be acquired, etc.?

Hawaii and the Carribean can only take so many planes as well, it just seems like WN will need some smaller planes, not many routes can fill 2x or 3x daily 737-800 (or larger) without a hub on one or either end.

In terms of connecting pasengers I'd say that WN already effectively has small hubs, but that's another debate.


Those are valid questions. Southwests olderst73Gs are not young. So the replacement will factor in. But the same questions were asked when WN had orders to grow their fleet to 300, 500, 700+ planes. WN still has logical adds coast to coast that they can add. The longer sectors like Hawaii, take up a lot of plane time, something that historically has not been the core of WN, so that will take planes. OAK/SJC/LAS/PHX all can absorb more WN flying if they operated it out West.
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:09 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
What would WN do with say 300 more 737s and a fleet of, say a thousand planes? They would seem to be forced to go into smaller markets or build up true "hubs" to utilize that many planes. MDW can't grow much more, DEN has a resurgent United, NYC and BOS are saturated, the west coast is pretty gate constrained, and ULCCs are expanding into their leisure markets. Do they expect a PHX drawdown by AA, a competitor to go out of business, or be acquired, etc.?


The oldest 737-700 planes in the WN fleet are already over 20 years old, and WN will start to retire some of its oldest 737-700 planes within the next 5 to 10 years.

WN could add nonstop service to BUR, ELP, and RIC from MDW, and WN could also bring back nonstop service to GSP, ROC, TUL, and IAD from MDW. WN could also increase frequencies on MDW-JAX and MDW-OKC nonstop service. In addition, WN also has opportunities to add nonstop service to additional international destinations from MDW.

There are some destinations that have nonstop service from PHX on WN but not on AA, including BUF, MDW, CLE, DAL, FLL, HOU, LIT, SDF, BNA, MSY, RDU, TUL, and ICT. WN has also been at PHX for over 36 years, whereas HP began operations a year-and-a-half after WN's entry into PHX on August 1, 1983. PHX is also currently WN's 5th largest focus city after MDW, BWI, LAS, and DEN. There are some travelers in Greater Phoenix who prefer to fly on WN since WN has nonstop service from PHX to destinations that AA doesn't serve nonstop from PHX and since WN has served PHX for over 3 decades.

WN also has been recently expanding at PHX, and WN still has opportunities for further expansion at PHX. WN did serve BHM, BOS, and PVD nonstop from PHX in the past, and WN could bring back nonstop service to PHX from these three destinations. In addition, WN could also extend PHX-CVG nonstop service to daily year-round nonstop service. In addition, the lack of nonstop service to PHX from BDL is a huge hole, and WN could also add nonstop service to BDL from PHX. PHX is one of the top destinations from CLT, and WN could add nonstop service to CLT from PHX if there is enough demand in PHX, SFO, OAK, SJC, SMF, and SAN to support WN nonstop service to CLT from PHX.

WN now has more market share at DEN than UA's mainline operation at DEN. WN will be adding nonstop service to CVG and MEM from DEN later this year, and WN will be resuming weekend-only DEN-ORF seasonal nonstop service on June 9th. WN will also be adding Sunday-only nonstop service to ELP from DEN starting on October 7th.

WN is still expanding at HOU, with WN adding HOU-SDF nonstop service and extending HOU-CMH nonstop service to year-round starting on October 3rd. WN still has opportunities to further expand both domestically and internationally at HOU. WN could bring back nonstop service to PHL from HOU, and there is enough demand for WN to bring back HOU-PHL nonstop service, even with AA, UA, and F9 all serving PHL nonstop from IAH. WN also could add nonstop service to BUR, CVG, CLE, DTW, MSP, NAS, ONT, PUJ, SMF, and SFO from HOU.
 
Jshank83
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:34 pm

I am sure this has been addressed before (but I must have missed it) but what keeps WN out of Canada? I assume there is some higher cost to fly to Canada seeing that the ULCC/LCC airlines for the most part don't fly there. Not that I lump WN in with those two groups. If they didn't fly any international I would understand but now that they fly all over Mexico and the Caribbean, I am curious what is stopping them from Canada. It seems like flights to the major cities, Toronto/Vancouver/etc would have no trouble with loads.
 
Jshank83
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:37 pm

jplatts wrote:
SumChristianus wrote:
What would WN do with say 300 more 737s and a fleet of, say a thousand planes? They would seem to be forced to go into smaller markets or build up true "hubs" to utilize that many planes. MDW can't grow much more, DEN has a resurgent United, NYC and BOS are saturated, the west coast is pretty gate constrained, and ULCCs are expanding into their leisure markets. Do they expect a PHX drawdown by AA, a competitor to go out of business, or be acquired, etc.?


The oldest 737-700 planes in the WN fleet are already over 20 years old, and WN will start to retire some of its oldest 737-700 planes within the next 5 to 10 years.

WN could add nonstop service to BUR, ELP, and RIC from MDW, and WN could also bring back nonstop service to GSP, ROC, TUL, and IAD from MDW. WN could also increase frequencies on MDW-JAX and MDW-OKC nonstop service. In addition, WN also has opportunities to add nonstop service to additional international destinations from MDW.

There are some destinations that have nonstop service from PHX on WN but not on AA, including BUF, MDW, CLE, DAL, FLL, HOU, LIT, SDF, BNA, MSY, RDU, TUL, and ICT. WN has also been at PHX for over 36 years, whereas HP began operations a year-and-a-half after WN's entry into PHX on August 1, 1983. PHX is also currently WN's 5th largest focus city after MDW, BWI, LAS, and DEN. There are some travelers in Greater Phoenix who prefer to fly on WN since WN has nonstop service from PHX to destinations that AA doesn't serve nonstop from PHX and since WN has served PHX for over 3 decades.

WN also has been recently expanding at PHX, and WN still has opportunities for further expansion at PHX. WN did serve BHM, BOS, and PVD nonstop from PHX in the past, and WN could bring back nonstop service to PHX from these three destinations. In addition, WN could also extend PHX-CVG nonstop service to daily year-round nonstop service. In addition, the lack of nonstop service to PHX from BDL is a huge hole, and WN could also add nonstop service to BDL from PHX. PHX is one of the top destinations from CLT, and WN could add nonstop service to CLT from PHX if there is enough demand in PHX, SFO, OAK, SJC, SMF, and SAN to support WN nonstop service to CLT from PHX.

WN now has more market share at DEN than UA's mainline operation at DEN. WN will be adding nonstop service to CVG and MEM from DEN later this year, and WN will be resuming weekend-only DEN-ORF seasonal nonstop service on June 9th. WN will also be adding Sunday-only nonstop service to ELP from DEN starting on October 7th.

WN is still expanding at HOU, with WN adding HOU-SDF nonstop service and extending HOU-CMH nonstop service to year-round starting on October 3rd. WN still has opportunities to further expand both domestically and internationally at HOU. WN could bring back nonstop service to PHL from HOU, and there is enough demand for WN to bring back HOU-PHL nonstop service, even with AA, UA, and F9 all serving PHL nonstop from IAH. WN also could add nonstop service to BUR, CVG, CLE, DTW, MSP, NAS, ONT, PUJ, SMF, and SFO from HOU.


Just to make sure I have this straight: You are saying WN could add a lot of new flights to a lot of markets? Assuming demand of course. They also seem to be adding new routes between cities they don't currently fly between to increase their market share and revenue. Surprising strategy.
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:45 am

Jshank83 wrote:
Just to make sure I have this straight: You are saying WN could add a lot of new flights to a lot of markets? Assuming demand of course. They also seem to be adding new routes between cities they don't currently fly between to increase their market share and revenue. Surprising strategy.


Yes, WN still does have opportunities to add many new nonstop routes between existing WN destinations in the contiguous U.S.
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:04 am

Jshank83 wrote:
I am sure this has been addressed before (but I must have missed it) but what keeps WN out of Canada? I assume there is some higher cost to fly to Canada seeing that the ULCC/LCC airlines for the most part don't fly there. Not that I lump WN in with those two groups. If they didn't fly any international I would understand but now that they fly all over Mexico and the Caribbean, I am curious what is stopping them from Canada. It seems like flights to the major cities, Toronto/Vancouver/etc would have no trouble with loads.


Canadian fees are notoriously high, from what I've seen. I seem to recall that being a major factor as to why the LCC/ULCC hasn't exactly taken off North of the Border.
2018: BWI, PIT, MDW, MCI, STL, DAL, ATL, BNA
 
737max8
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:56 am

Canada also has to do with not accepting foreign currency yet. Caribbean works taking US pax there and back. Canada needs 2 way traffic to be successful.

Also, WN already has enough planes on order to take the fleet to 1,000.

A big order would be largely for 737-700 replacement.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
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barney captain
Posts: 1961
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:10 am

737max8 wrote:
Canada also has to do with not accepting foreign currency yet. Caribbean works taking US pax there and back. Canada needs 2 way traffic to be successful.

Also, WN already has enough planes on order to take the fleet to 1,000.

A big order would be largely for 737-700 replacement.


Your first paragraph nailed it.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
allegiantflyer
Posts: 353
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:27 am

Hawaii is going to use a lot of airframes, especially if they want to serve the area as much as Alaska does, add the fact that they do not want to use redeyes. The rest of a large order I would suspect would go to replacing older aircraft.

jplatts wrote:
SumChristianus wrote:
What would WN do with say 300 more 737s and a fleet of, say a thousand planes? They would seem to be forced to go into smaller markets or build up true "hubs" to utilize that many planes. MDW can't grow much more, DEN has a resurgent United, NYC and BOS are saturated, the west coast is pretty gate constrained, and ULCCs are expanding into their leisure markets. Do they expect a PHX drawdown by AA, a competitor to go out of business, or be acquired, etc.?



There are some destinations that have nonstop service from PHX on WN but not on AA, including BUF, MDW, CLE, DAL, FLL, HOU, LIT, SDF, BNA, MSY, RDU, TUL, and ICT. WN has also been at PHX for over 36 years, whereas HP began operations a year-and-a-half after WN's entry into PHX on August 1, 1983. PHX is also currently WN's 5th largest focus city after MDW, BWI, LAS, and DEN. There are some travelers in Greater Phoenix who prefer to fly on WN since WN has nonstop service from PHX to destinations that AA doesn't serve nonstop from PHX and since WN has served PHX for over 3 decades.

WN also has been recently expanding at PHX, and WN still has opportunities for further expansion at PHX. WN did serve BHM, BOS, and PVD nonstop from PHX in the past, and WN could bring back nonstop service to PHX from these three destinations. In addition, WN could also extend PHX-CVG nonstop service to daily year-round nonstop service. In addition, the lack of nonstop service to PHX from BDL is a huge hole, and WN could also add nonstop service to BDL from PHX. PHX is one of the top destinations from CLT, and WN could add nonstop service to CLT from PHX if there is enough demand in PHX, SFO, OAK, SJC, SMF, and SAN to support WN nonstop service to CLT from PHX.

WN now has more market share at DEN than UA's mainline operation at DEN. WN will be adding nonstop service to CVG and MEM from DEN later this year, and WN will be resuming weekend-only DEN-ORF seasonal nonstop service on June 9th. WN will also be adding Sunday-only nonstop service to ELP from DEN starting on October 7th.


Not sure were this argument is going. If you are stating that WN has a larger following here because they have been in PHX longer than HP is not a valid argument, because American Airlines itself first airline to serve PHX way back in 1930 (8 decades in PHX). AA also serves destinations from PHX that WN does not and vice versa. But AA flies to more places from PHX than WN does, including to Canada and Mexico.
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:21 am

allegiantflyer wrote:
Not sure were this argument is going. If you are stating that WN has a larger following here because they have been in PHX longer than HP is not a valid argument, because American Airlines itself first airline to serve PHX way back in 1930 (8 decades in PHX). AA also serves destinations from PHX that WN does not and vice versa. But AA flies to more places from PHX than WN does, including to Canada and Mexico.


Good point. However, there are some destinations served by both AA and WN that have nonstop service from PHX on AA but not on WN, including AMA, BOS, CLT, CUN, LBB, MEM, MEX, MAF, PVR, SJD, TUS, and DCA. WN did serve BOS nonstop from PHX in the past, and WN could bring back PHX-BOS nonstop service. In addition, WN could add nonstop service to CLT and MEM from PHX, and WN could also open up a new international gateway at PHX with nonstop service to CUN, PVR, and SJD from PHX. TUS is too close to PHX for WN to even consider serving TUS nonstop from PHX. There is also probably not enough demand for WN nonstop service to PHX from AMA, LBB, and MAF with these three destinations being in smaller Texas markets. DCA also has perimeter restrictions that prevent WN from serving DCA nonstop from PHX, but AA has beyond-perimeter slot exemptions that allow AA to serve DCA nonstop from PHX.
 
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southwest1675
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:59 pm

WN picked up 2 new gates in Nashville finally. They have 14 gates. 15 if you count their overflow they share with AA.
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:32 pm

jplatts wrote:
allegiantflyer wrote:
Not sure were this argument is going. If you are stating that WN has a larger following here because they have been in PHX longer than HP is not a valid argument, because American Airlines itself first airline to serve PHX way back in 1930 (8 decades in PHX). AA also serves destinations from PHX that WN does not and vice versa. But AA flies to more places from PHX than WN does, including to Canada and Mexico.


Good point. However, there are some destinations served by both AA and WN that have nonstop service from PHX on AA but not on WN, including AMA, BOS, CLT, CUN, LBB, MEM, MEX, MAF, PVR, SJD, TUS, and DCA. WN did serve BOS nonstop from PHX in the past, and WN could bring back PHX-BOS nonstop service. In addition, WN could add nonstop service to CLT and MEM from PHX, and WN could also open up a new international gateway at PHX with nonstop service to CUN, PVR, and SJD from PHX. TUS is too close to PHX for WN to even consider serving TUS nonstop from PHX. There is also probably not enough demand for WN nonstop service to PHX from AMA, LBB, and MAF with these three destinations being in smaller Texas markets. DCA also has perimeter restrictions that prevent WN from serving DCA nonstop from PHX, but AA has beyond-perimeter slot exemptions that allow AA to serve DCA nonstop from PHX.


I think AA has even increased Memphis to 2x daily. There's the G4 service as well.

1 well timed for SoCal WN MEM/PHX could do quite well especially if it was no plane change with SAN, LAX, ONT, SNA on the other side. I'd prefer LAS, thought. I'd love to see both PHX and LAS along with DEN from MEM.

PHX for connections to SoCal

LAS for Bay region

DEN for Pac Northwest, possibly Alaska and Western Canada one day.

I still think if given a choice between G4 budget folks
Or an AA RJ, folks will go for a 737 and the reasonable pricing and baggage allowance of WN
 
Jshank83
Posts: 1960
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:03 pm

I was on Southwest's site today and noticed they redid their booking interface. I like it a lot better. It makes it easier to see your connections, etc.
 
Vctony
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Joined: Sun Aug 01, 1999 10:51 am

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:49 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
I was on Southwest's site today and noticed they redid their booking interface. I like it a lot better. It makes it easier to see your connections, etc.


I'm the opposite. I am so used to the old interface that the new one is taking some getting used to.
 
tomaheath
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:21 pm

I noticed they added multi city bookings was that available before?
 
Jshank83
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:26 am

[*]
tomaheath wrote:
I noticed they added multi city bookings was that available before?


I don't ever remember noticing it but I pretty much book all my tickets one way so I might not have seen it before.

I did notice sometime in the last couple months if you do a flight change, now you can change city pairs. I used to have to cancel and rebook if I wanted to change destinations. Not that it was a big deal but now it is easier.
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 454
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:30 am

tomaheath wrote:
I noticed they added multi city bookings was that available before?


As best as I can recall, it was, at least if you were booking, say, STL-DEN-MCI as part of a trip.
2018: BWI, PIT, MDW, MCI, STL, DAL, ATL, BNA
 
Mboyle1988
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:05 am

Just noticed PHX-DTW was downgraded to 1 flight per day. The return DTW-PHX is horribly timed for PHX business travel. Quite unfortunate.
 
Mboyle1988
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:38 am

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:22 am

Also PHX-IND, MKE, CLE All reduced. Looks like the idea they were increasing capacity at PHX isn’t all that true. They are just moving it around. WN is virtually unflyable to IND and DTW now due to poorly timed flights.
 
ibthebigd
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:12 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:55 am

SDF same way they used to have PHX in the morning and LAS at night.

Having both at night is frustrating

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
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flymco753
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:09 pm

Mboyle1988 wrote:
Just noticed PHX-DTW was downgraded to 1 flight per day. The return DTW-PHX is horribly timed for PHX business travel. Quite unfortunate.
Shouldn’t be long until the yellow bus comes marching in on PHX-DTW, could be on an A321 in the winter.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
XNA2ASG
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:04 am

WaywardMemphian wrote:
TYSflyer wrote:
LovePrunesAnet wrote:


"Never" is not too strong of a word for me. If the shoe fits....

I take issue with your comparison.
So, the fact that Austin now has international flight to LHR and this surprises you somehow from where they were 20 years ago means XNA will get Southwest?

These two aren't even REMOTELY connected business situations. Ridiculous. The geography of where it's located in between other bigger cities isn't changing "in 20 years." There's a solid reason XNA won't work and WN has no need to fly there, and can still capture passengers. It's been discussed but fanboys won't accept it. It's like the 2 guys on the thread here insisting the US3 airlines will still order A380s "in a couple of years". :banghead:



My bad. This little airport with mostly Monday-Friday service for Walmart business has exactly ONE mainline flight and SOMETIMES TWO in certain
seasons. It is certainly ready to fill the added 750-1000 seats PER DAY on new Southwest flights into XNA International. :rotfl:

Ridiculous? You're kidding me, right? What I find ridiculous is how easily the point I'm trying to make went sailing over your head. First of all, I agree with you that XNA will not be seeing WN service in the near future if ever at all. I have never been there and don't know much about the market other than what I've read on here. It is a unique airport due to the presence of Walmart. That is the extent of what I know. What I find interesting is the language that you use like you have a crystal ball and can see the entire existence of WN. The statement about AUS simply means that markets can change dramatically in a relatively short time. I do not think that XNA is equivalent to AUS and that because AUS has service on BA means that XNA will get WN. I just would have never predicted the growth of AUS. I'm sure some people did. Anyway, if that doesn't make some sense we will have to agree to disagree!
9

He was too wrapped up in himself.

I agree that WNs move to higher capacity planes hurt the prospects of new service in smaller markets. I would love to see a Boeing /Embraer marriage lead to the introduction of the E2's into a fleet like WN's to address this lower capacity void they have created for themselves.

With the battle going on at Love over 2 gates, I wonder if WN ever entertains the notion of flying out of McKinney. They could shift a lot of intra Texas flying there opening up slots for more markets outside of Texas and better timed connections at Love.


Looking, back on this, I want to say that we will be getting AA A319s 1x daily to XNA July 5th-Aug. 20.
 
Vctony
Posts: 565
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:36 am

[photoid][/photoid]
flymco753 wrote:
Mboyle1988 wrote:
Just noticed PHX-DTW was downgraded to 1 flight per day. The return DTW-PHX is horribly timed for PHX business travel. Quite unfortunate.
Shouldn’t be long until the yellow bus comes marching in on PHX-DTW, could be on an A321 in the winter.


The WN flight is horribly timed for VFR travel too. Especially as it eats up the entire workday anyways (so one would have to take a vacation day or eat up a weekend day just sitting on the aircraft).

I normally fly WN places (as I live in PHX) but I have a number of relatives in the DTW area and I have to use AA or DL as the WN flight schedule absolutely stinks on that route.
 
DakotaFlyer
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:19 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:18 am

Kinda of random question but what U.S. cities do you think SWA will start flying into next? Seems they have the large metropolis and medium size cities, but what about the next tier? MSA's in the Portland Maine, Knoxville, and Madison range.

I know there likely won't be anything soon, so it's mostly hypothetical guessing.
 
TYSflyer
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:44 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:06 pm

DakotaFlyer wrote:
Kinda of random question but what U.S. cities do you think SWA will start flying into next? Seems they have the large metropolis and medium size cities, but what about the next tier? MSA's in the Portland Maine, Knoxville, and Madison range.

I know there likely won't be anything soon, so it's mostly hypothetical guessing.

It is a big “IF” as I don’t think they have added a new market since GSP/CHS outside of those that were acquired from the merger. They have also closed smaller markets such as CAK and DAY although those markets were within a stones throw of larger markets. I’m assuming you realized PWM already has WN and were just referencing its size. If I had to guess next markets in the US, excluding Hawaii and Alaska, I would say MSN, FAT, XNA or TYS (I’m a little biased to TYS). All of these markets are growing yet lack a full service low fare airline. I realize many do not think WN is really low fare anymore. Another possibility would be SYR, but it seems to be serviced well with JetBlue and nearby WN markets. I’m sure the case can be made for other markets these are just the ones that seemed to get mentioned the most.
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 4679
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:12 pm

Curious. I just noticed that SAN-GEG shows up on the route map but I couldn't find any nonstop flight anywhere by spot checking monthly thru the booking window (thru Nov 3.) WN served the route during the peak summer season last year and have heard nothing about it since. Anyone got any ideas or do I assume it's just an error with the route map?

bb
 
ibthebigd
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:12 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:27 pm

TYSflyer wrote:
DakotaFlyer wrote:
Kinda of random question but what U.S. cities do you think SWA will start flying into next? Seems they have the large metropolis and medium size cities, but what about the next tier? MSA's in the Portland Maine, Knoxville, and Madison range.

I know there likely won't be anything soon, so it's mostly hypothetical guessing.

It is a big “IF” as I don’t think they have added a new market since GSP/CHS outside of those that were acquired from the merger. They have also closed smaller markets such as CAK and DAY although those markets were within a stones throw of larger markets. I’m assuming you realized PWM already has WN and were just referencing its size. If I had to guess next markets in the US, excluding Hawaii and Alaska, I would say MSN, FAT, XNA or TYS (I’m a little biased to TYS). All of these markets are growing yet lack a full service low fare airline. I realize many do not think WN is really low fare anymore. Another possibility would be SYR, but it seems to be serviced well with JetBlue and nearby WN markets. I’m sure the case can be made for other markets these are just the ones that seemed to get mentioned the most.
They added Cincinnati

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
flyfresno
Posts: 608
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:30 pm

TYSflyer wrote:
DakotaFlyer wrote:
Kinda of random question but what U.S. cities do you think SWA will start flying into next? Seems they have the large metropolis and medium size cities, but what about the next tier? MSA's in the Portland Maine, Knoxville, and Madison range.

I know there likely won't be anything soon, so it's mostly hypothetical guessing.

It is a big “IF” as I don’t think they have added a new market since GSP/CHS outside of those that were acquired from the merger. They have also closed smaller markets such as CAK and DAY although those markets were within a stones throw of larger markets. I’m assuming you realized PWM already has WN and were just referencing its size. If I had to guess next markets in the US, excluding Hawaii and Alaska, I would say MSN, FAT, XNA or TYS (I’m a little biased to TYS). All of these markets are growing yet lack a full service low fare airline. I realize many do not think WN is really low fare anymore. Another possibility would be SYR, but it seems to be serviced well with JetBlue and nearby WN markets. I’m sure the case can be made for other markets these are just the ones that seemed to get mentioned the most.


2-3X FAT-LAS
1X FAT-PHX
1X FAT-SAN

We can only hope...
 
TYSflyer
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:44 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:39 pm

ibthebigd wrote:
TYSflyer wrote:
DakotaFlyer wrote:
Kinda of random question but what U.S. cities do you think SWA will start flying into next? Seems they have the large metropolis and medium size cities, but what about the next tier? MSA's in the Portland Maine, Knoxville, and Madison range.

I know there likely won't be anything soon, so it's mostly hypothetical guessing.

It is a big “IF” as I don’t think they have added a new market since GSP/CHS outside of those that were acquired from the merger. They have also closed smaller markets such as CAK and DAY although those markets were within a stones throw of larger markets. I’m assuming you realized PWM already has WN and were just referencing its size. If I had to guess next markets in the US, excluding Hawaii and Alaska, I would say MSN, FAT, XNA or TYS (I’m a little biased to TYS). All of these markets are growing yet lack a full service low fare airline. I realize many do not think WN is really low fare anymore. Another possibility would be SYR, but it seems to be serviced well with JetBlue and nearby WN markets. I’m sure the case can be made for other markets these are just the ones that seemed to get mentioned the most.
They added Cincinnati

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Haha, yes slipped my mind as it was such an obvious add. Thanks for correcting me.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 1960
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:06 pm

SANFan wrote:
Curious. I just noticed that SAN-GEG shows up on the route map but I couldn't find any nonstop flight anywhere by spot checking monthly thru the booking window (thru Nov 3.) WN served the route during the peak summer season last year and have heard nothing about it since. Anyone got any ideas or do I assume it's just an error with the route map?

bb


Looks like Sunday only starting Sep 9, only goes to Sep 30
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 4679
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:19 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
Curious. I just noticed that SAN-GEG shows up on the route map but I couldn't find any nonstop flight anywhere by spot checking monthly thru the booking window (thru Nov 3.)
bb


Looks like Sunday only starting Sep 9, only goes to Sep 30


Thanks so much, Jshank'. I must have checked the first week of Sept in my search!

Seems to me this is only to keep the route on the map - four Sundays in September is a very silly excuse for serving a market but that's part of the new WN I guess. Either WN is interested in serving the market or they're not -- but somehow, they've managed to find something in between those options.

I certainly hope another carrier quickly starts (seriously) serving the market which could definitely support a daily, year-round flight!

bb
 
Jshank83
Posts: 1960
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:32 am

SANFan wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
Curious. I just noticed that SAN-GEG shows up on the route map but I couldn't find any nonstop flight anywhere by spot checking monthly thru the booking window (thru Nov 3.)
bb


Looks like Sunday only starting Sep 9, only goes to Sep 30


Thanks so much, Jshank'. I must have checked the first week of Sept in my search!

Seems to me this is only to keep the route on the map - four Sundays in September is a very silly excuse for serving a market but that's part of the new WN I guess. Either WN is interested in serving the market or they're not -- but somehow, they've managed to find something in between those options.

I certainly hope another carrier quickly starts (seriously) serving the market which could definitely support a daily, year-round flight!

bb


It took me a little bit to find it but if it is on their map I knew it would be somewhere. I usually use google flights to search for a needle in a haystack like that. You can go through the days faster.
 
User avatar
SumChristianus
Topic Author
Posts: 533
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:00 am

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:13 pm

WN expansion into smaller cities depends on the evolution of their route network.

Because they're previous mold of HIGH-frequency short-haul flights is challenged by a decrease in short-haul local passengers, smaller cities can only come about through a more consolidated hub-and-spoke network, or on the other hand, a full-blown return to the LCC model, with added fees, lower frequencies, and denser seating/"unbundled fares". I don't think WN can really move back down-market (unless the recent incident forces them to, for the sake of keeping passenger volumes) given how much they've evolved upward on complexity, costs, and scale, branding, etc.,

Thus, especially given they're TransFAREncy marketing campaign, I believe they'll continue upmarket in their evolution and growth, entering LAX-NYC, growing Bay Area-NYC, and adding more near international destinations.
Smaller cities which cant take several daily frequencies on a 737 are probably too costly for them, so there are really only about ten or fewer cities that I could realistically see WN adding domestically.
ANC
FAT
MSN (maaaaaayyyyybeeee)
JFK
XNA (in 10 years at the expense of some TUL service)
HNL
OGG
KOA
LIH
JAC or BZN

Now all this depends on the growth of NK/F9/G4.

If the ULCCs saturate and soak up smaller markets, as they probably will even with route churn, given large orderbooks at NK and F9 for example, WN will have a harder time at markets (except for those in HI, AK, and JFK) above.

WN has lost mcuh of its niche in short-haul flying (6x daily PHL-RDU, 4x IND-MDW, etc.) so to enter cities like FAT it will have to gain a good share of longer haul traffic.
That means connecting traffic for markets like these, and for MSN for example, the market can probably only handle about 7 WN flights maximum.
Example:
MSN-STL 2x
MSN-BWI 1x
MSN-MCO 1x
MSN-DEN 1x
MSN-LAS 1x

Only some of this would be new traffic for WN, and would pull on loads for well-served stations like MDW, MSP, MKE, etc.
Assuming for the moment that 300 people from the MSN area (probably conservative) are already flying WN from MDW, MKE, or other stations, WN is really running 6 daily flights (about two airframes of capacity for them) to gain 300 PDEW of new passengers.

Is it worth it?

Depends on the yields. Again if ULCCs soak up these markets, its a harder case for WN to enter; if ULCCs remain smaller, and economic growth picks up over the next few years in the U.S., WN will probably take a closer look at markets like MSN or FAT. Having to compete with ULCC yields to fill 737s might not justify the cost of opening an XNA or MSN station for them.
So again, as WN holds the data and makes the decisions, whether they will enter smaller cities is only known to them.
"et ad Deo"
A Traddie wannaby---UA DL LH NW AA --- Next DEN-IND (to be decided) Any suggestions?
"Born in Wonder, Brought to Wisdom"
 
WN732
Posts: 319
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:53 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
WN expansion into smaller cities depends on the evolution of their route network.

Because they're previous mold of HIGH-frequency short-haul flights is challenged by a decrease in short-haul local passengers, smaller cities can only come about through a more consolidated hub-and-spoke network, or on the other hand, a full-blown return to the LCC model, with added fees, lower frequencies, and denser seating/"unbundled fares". I don't think WN can really move back down-market (unless the recent incident forces them to, for the sake of keeping passenger volumes) given how much they've evolved upward on complexity, costs, and scale, branding, etc.,

Thus, especially given they're TransFAREncy marketing campaign, I believe they'll continue upmarket in their evolution and growth, entering LAX-NYC, growing Bay Area-NYC, and adding more near international destinations.
Smaller cities which cant take several daily frequencies on a 737 are probably too costly for them, so there are really only about ten or fewer cities that I could realistically see WN adding domestically.
ANC
FAT
MSN (maaaaaayyyyybeeee)
JFK
XNA (in 10 years at the expense of some TUL service)
HNL
OGG
KOA
LIH
JAC or BZN

Now all this depends on the growth of NK/F9/G4.

If the ULCCs saturate and soak up smaller markets, as they probably will even with route churn, given large orderbooks at NK and F9 for example, WN will have a harder time at markets (except for those in HI, AK, and JFK) above.

WN has lost mcuh of its niche in short-haul flying (6x daily PHL-RDU, 4x IND-MDW, etc.) so to enter cities like FAT it will have to gain a good share of longer haul traffic.
That means connecting traffic for markets like these, and for MSN for example, the market can probably only handle about 7 WN flights maximum.
Example:
MSN-STL 2x
MSN-BWI 1x
MSN-MCO 1x
MSN-DEN 1x
MSN-LAS 1x

Only some of this would be new traffic for WN, and would pull on loads for well-served stations like MDW, MSP, MKE, etc.
Assuming for the moment that 300 people from the MSN area (probably conservative) are already flying WN from MDW, MKE, or other stations, WN is really running 6 daily flights (about two airframes of capacity for them) to gain 300 PDEW of new passengers.

Is it worth it?

Depends on the yields. Again if ULCCs soak up these markets, its a harder case for WN to enter; if ULCCs remain smaller, and economic growth picks up over the next few years in the U.S., WN will probably take a closer look at markets like MSN or FAT. Having to compete with ULCC yields to fill 737s might not justify the cost of opening an XNA or MSN station for them.
So again, as WN holds the data and makes the decisions, whether they will enter smaller cities is only known to them.
"et ad Deo"


FAT only has G4 as an ULCC, and their fares are usually not ground breaking anyways. I honestly believe that G4 would have a difficult time at FAT if WN started LAS.
 
SWADawg
Posts: 465
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:43 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:07 pm

Buried in the Alaska Q1 Earnings thread. WN gets 10 former VX slot pairs at DCA and LGA starting this fall.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/sou ... love-field
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 3059
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:08 pm

SWADawg wrote:
Buried in the Alaska Q1 Earnings thread. WN gets 10 former VX slot pairs at DCA and LGA starting this fall.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/sou ... love-field


Anyone have speculation as to which routes they might use the slots on?
DL DM, AA Gold 2018: AMS, ATL, AUS, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, DXB, EWR, FLL, FRA, HAV, HPN, JFK, JNB, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MCO, MIA, MSP, ORD, PBI, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, STL, TPA, TXL, ZRH....Loading....
 
Jshank83
Posts: 1960
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:26 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
SWADawg wrote:
Buried in the Alaska Q1 Earnings thread. WN gets 10 former VX slot pairs at DCA and LGA starting this fall.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/sou ... love-field


Anyone have speculation as to which routes they might use the slots on?


Just to be more specific on how many they are adding from the article.

"Dallas-based Southwest will be able to add six round-trip flights at New York's LaGuardia Airport and four at Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport. The 10-year lease begins in October and has been approved by the U.S. Justice Department, Alaska said Monday."

I'll be curious if they put most of them on big stations they can push connections through, stations that have 1 flight a day now going to 2, or new routes. I'll assume some kind of combo but I am interested to see how it gets split up, especially with the perimeter rule.

MDW/DAL, I would guess would have trouble fitting extra flights in and would have to drop something to add. STL just got an extra DCA so I would guess they would be out for DCA adds. BWI doesn't have any LGA now (too close I am guessing). MCO not having any LGA surprised me (maybe they do in the part of the year not currently in the schedule). Not sure about other bigger stations situations.
 
WeatherPilot
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:51 am

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:57 pm

WN is more than welcome to come to SYR!
 
WNflyer1523
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:28 am

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:13 pm

I could possibly see them adding MYR? Here's my ideas:

BWI - 4x daily (3x or 2x daily in off-season)
ISP - 1x daily (seasonal)
MDW - 2x daily (1x daily in off-season)
BNA - 2x daily (1x daily in off-season)
STL - Saturday only (seasonal)

By seasonal, I mean mid-late may thru mid October
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1040
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:31 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
WN expansion into smaller cities depends on the evolution of their route network.

Because they're previous mold of HIGH-frequency short-haul flights is challenged by a decrease in short-haul local passengers, smaller cities can only come about through a more consolidated hub-and-spoke network, or on the other hand, a full-blown return to the LCC model, with added fees, lower frequencies, and denser seating/"unbundled fares". I don't think WN can really move back down-market (unless the recent incident forces them to, for the sake of keeping passenger volumes) given how much they've evolved upward on complexity, costs, and scale, branding, etc.,

Thus, especially given they're TransFAREncy marketing campaign, I believe they'll continue upmarket in their evolution and growth, entering LAX-NYC, growing Bay Area-NYC, and adding more near international destinations.
Smaller cities which cant take several daily frequencies on a 737 are probably too costly for them, so there are really only about ten or fewer cities that I could realistically see WN adding domestically.
ANC
FAT
MSN (maaaaaayyyyybeeee)
JFK
XNA (in 10 years at the expense of some TUL service)
HNL
OGG
KOA
LIH
JAC or BZN

Now all this depends on the growth of NK/F9/G4.

If the ULCCs saturate and soak up smaller markets, as they probably will even with route churn, given large orderbooks at NK and F9 for example, WN will have a harder time at markets (except for those in HI, AK, and JFK) above.

WN has lost mcuh of its niche in short-haul flying (6x daily PHL-RDU, 4x IND-MDW, etc.) so to enter cities like FAT it will have to gain a good share of longer haul traffic.
That means connecting traffic for markets like these, and for MSN for example, the market can probably only handle about 7 WN flights maximum.
Example:
MSN-STL 2x
MSN-BWI 1x
MSN-MCO 1x
MSN-DEN 1x
MSN-LAS 1x

Only some of this would be new traffic for WN, and would pull on loads for well-served stations like MDW, MSP, MKE, etc.
Assuming for the moment that 300 people from the MSN area (probably conservative) are already flying WN from MDW, MKE, or other stations, WN is really running 6 daily flights (about two airframes of capacity for them) to gain 300 PDEW of new passengers.

Is it worth it?

Depends on the yields. Again if ULCCs soak up these markets, its a harder case for WN to enter; if ULCCs remain smaller, and economic growth picks up over the next few years in the U.S., WN will probably take a closer look at markets like MSN or FAT. Having to compete with ULCC yields to fill 737s might not justify the cost of opening an XNA or MSN station for them.
So again, as WN holds the data and makes the decisions, whether they will enter smaller cities is only known to them.
"et ad Deo"


I'd be proactive in regards to XNA, outside of some token Allegiant service with a MSA of 550k day and forcasted to go to 750k in 10 to 15 years. I'd start it up. Truth be told, WN coming into the market would have a positive impact on continued growth, possibly increase the rate fractionally. Given the super high fares at XNA, the fares could offer cheaper options yet yields be good.

This is easy given the ties the area has to the Metroplex via alumni and current students at the UofA,

XNA-DAL
XNA-STL or MDW
XNA-BNA or MSY
XNA-DEN
XNA-BWI
Seasonal Sat Only MCO
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 780
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:51 pm

WNflyer1523 wrote:
I could possibly see them adding MYR? Here's my ideas:

BWI - 4x daily (3x or 2x daily in off-season)
ISP - 1x daily (seasonal)
MDW - 2x daily (1x daily in off-season)
BNA - 2x daily (1x daily in off-season)
STL - Saturday only (seasonal)

By seasonal, I mean mid-late may thru mid October

They are bulking up CHS, but I don't know if that means they are passing up on MYR or are liking the sc market in general.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 3059
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:57 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
SumChristianus wrote:
WN expansion into smaller cities depends on the evolution of their route network.

Because they're previous mold of HIGH-frequency short-haul flights is challenged by a decrease in short-haul local passengers, smaller cities can only come about through a more consolidated hub-and-spoke network, or on the other hand, a full-blown return to the LCC model, with added fees, lower frequencies, and denser seating/"unbundled fares". I don't think WN can really move back down-market (unless the recent incident forces them to, for the sake of keeping passenger volumes) given how much they've evolved upward on complexity, costs, and scale, branding, etc.,

Thus, especially given they're TransFAREncy marketing campaign, I believe they'll continue upmarket in their evolution and growth, entering LAX-NYC, growing Bay Area-NYC, and adding more near international destinations.
Smaller cities which cant take several daily frequencies on a 737 are probably too costly for them, so there are really only about ten or fewer cities that I could realistically see WN adding domestically.
ANC
FAT
MSN (maaaaaayyyyybeeee)
JFK
XNA (in 10 years at the expense of some TUL service)
HNL
OGG
KOA
LIH
JAC or BZN

Now all this depends on the growth of NK/F9/G4.

If the ULCCs saturate and soak up smaller markets, as they probably will even with route churn, given large orderbooks at NK and F9 for example, WN will have a harder time at markets (except for those in HI, AK, and JFK) above.

WN has lost mcuh of its niche in short-haul flying (6x daily PHL-RDU, 4x IND-MDW, etc.) so to enter cities like FAT it will have to gain a good share of longer haul traffic.
That means connecting traffic for markets like these, and for MSN for example, the market can probably only handle about 7 WN flights maximum.
Example:
MSN-STL 2x
MSN-BWI 1x
MSN-MCO 1x
MSN-DEN 1x
MSN-LAS 1x

Only some of this would be new traffic for WN, and would pull on loads for well-served stations like MDW, MSP, MKE, etc.
Assuming for the moment that 300 people from the MSN area (probably conservative) are already flying WN from MDW, MKE, or other stations, WN is really running 6 daily flights (about two airframes of capacity for them) to gain 300 PDEW of new passengers.

Is it worth it?

Depends on the yields. Again if ULCCs soak up these markets, its a harder case for WN to enter; if ULCCs remain smaller, and economic growth picks up over the next few years in the U.S., WN will probably take a closer look at markets like MSN or FAT. Having to compete with ULCC yields to fill 737s might not justify the cost of opening an XNA or MSN station for them.
So again, as WN holds the data and makes the decisions, whether they will enter smaller cities is only known to them.
"et ad Deo"


I'd be proactive in regards to XNA, outside of some token Allegiant service with a MSA of 550k day and forcasted to go to 750k in 10 to 15 years. I'd start it up. Truth be told, WN coming into the market would have a positive impact on continued growth, possibly increase the rate fractionally. Given the super high fares at XNA, the fares could offer cheaper options yet yields be good.

This is easy given the ties the area has to the Metroplex via alumni and current students at the UofA,

XNA-DAL
XNA-STL or MDW
XNA-BNA or MSY
XNA-DEN
XNA-BWI
Seasonal Sat Only MCO


Why stop there, WN could fly their 737s on XNA-CDG/NRT
DL DM, AA Gold 2018: AMS, ATL, AUS, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, DXB, EWR, FLL, FRA, HAV, HPN, JFK, JNB, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MCO, MIA, MSP, ORD, PBI, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, STL, TPA, TXL, ZRH....Loading....
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 4676
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:50 am

WN732 wrote:
FAT only has G4 as an ULCC, and their fares are usually not ground breaking anyways. I honestly believe that G4 would have a difficult time at FAT if WN started LAS.


Don't forget that Frontier starts at FAT May 22.

The late evening 3X/week FAT-DEN schedule for F9 seems strange to me. Very few connections at DEN without an overnight.

But shift the same flight times to a F9 FAT-LAS route and I could see it as competition to G4.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
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