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BWIAirport
Posts: 332
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:08 am

DaufuskieGuy wrote:
EWRandMDW wrote:
I'm guessing that if WN acquires at least 2 more gates at EWR they could start EWR-LAX and maybe EWR-SJC and add frequencies to existing EWR-SAN and EWR-OAK routes.


wouldn't EWR SNA/BUR be preferable? No competition and they have strong presence at those stations

Does BUR have runways long enough for a fully loaded, transcontinental 73G to take off?
SWA, UAL, DAL, AWE, ASA, TRS, DLH, CLH | E190 DC9 712 733 737 738 739 752 762 A319 A320 A321 A333 A343 MD88
 
DaufuskieGuy
Posts: 386
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:35 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:37 am

BWIAirport wrote:
DaufuskieGuy wrote:
EWRandMDW wrote:
I'm guessing that if WN acquires at least 2 more gates at EWR they could start EWR-LAX and maybe EWR-SJC and add frequencies to existing EWR-SAN and EWR-OAK routes.


wouldn't EWR SNA/BUR be preferable? No competition and they have strong presence at those stations

Does BUR have runways long enough for a fully loaded, transcontinental 73G to take off?


6800 ft at sea level, I'm guessing that's borderline
 
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dolphinflyer
Posts: 223
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:40 am

jplatts wrote:
AAvgeek744 wrote:
A second destination to the LA basin would be nice, even though ONT failed a long time ago.


BNA is actually one of the top destinations traveled to from ONT that is not currently served nonstop from ONT, and there is an average of 114 passengers who traveled between BNA and ONT in Q2 2017. In addition, in Q2 2017, there is an average of over 1000 passengers who travel between ONT and destinations east of BNA that do not have any nonstop service out of ONT but that do have nonstop service out of BNA on WN.

Even though ONT-BNA nonstop service was a failure in the past, WN might be able to do well on ONT-BNA nonstop service if it brings back ONT-BNA nonstop service since BNA is one of the top destinations actually traveled to from ONT that doesn't currently have nonstop service from ONT and since there is significant demand from ONT to destinations east of BNA that are not currently served nonstop from ONT. WN also now has nonstop service to additional East Coast destinations from BNA, including BOS, LGA, and DCA, than was the case back when WN served ONT nonstop from BNA.


My head hurts reading this run-on sentence!
 
WNCrew
Posts: 931
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:22 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:32 am

[/quote]

My head hurts reading this run-on sentence![/quote]

LOL! Yes... I am just entertained by threads like these by posters who (and I mean this in the kindest way) but, posters who think their city is THE pinnacle destination and that they have it all figured out and their small city is truly this mecca of travel.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
AAvgeek744
Posts: 750
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:28 am

dolphinflyer wrote:
jplatts wrote:
AAvgeek744 wrote:
A second destination to the LA basin would be nice, even though ONT failed a long time ago.


BNA is actually one of the top destinations traveled to from ONT that is not currently served nonstop from ONT, and there is an average of 114 passengers who traveled between BNA and ONT in Q2 2017. In addition, in Q2 2017, there is an average of over 1000 passengers who travel between ONT and destinations east of BNA that do not have any nonstop service out of ONT but that do have nonstop service out of BNA on WN.

Even though ONT-BNA nonstop service was a failure in the past, WN might be able to do well on ONT-BNA nonstop service if it brings back ONT-BNA nonstop service since BNA is one of the top destinations actually traveled to from ONT that doesn't currently have nonstop service from ONT and since there is significant demand from ONT to destinations east of BNA that are not currently served nonstop from ONT. WN also now has nonstop service to additional East Coast destinations from BNA, including BOS, LGA, and DCA, than was the case back when WN served ONT nonstop from BNA.


My head hurts reading this run-on sentence!


I would say several cities WN served in the past might work now. The growth in Nashville is insane, and doesn't seem to be letting up. I can't say for sure, but news of the mayor's affair may get some of the naysayers out and vote down the transit vote in May. Regardless, WN can support some destinations they don't have now.
 
flyfresno
Posts: 489
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:36 pm

ucdtim17 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
Chugach wrote:

SEA-ANC also has a ton of O&D on both ends; Seattle is far and away the top market from Anchorage, and Anchorage is, I believe, a top 5 market from Seattle (if it’s not too 5 then it’s top 10). If B6 can fill up a flight with barely any feed then WN would be fine.

If WN started PDX-ANC, I wouldn’t be surprised if B6 dropped the route. PDX-ANC is a good market but it’s not big enough for three carriers.

Personally, if WN ever goes to ANC I’d put money on it being some combination of OAK/DEN/SEA-ANC service. They’re all solid O&D markets for Anchorage and competition is somewhat limited on Bay Area-ANC and DEN-ANC.

The O&D market for PDX-ANC is just fine. I don't think B6 will suffer if WN were to add this route...


There's not unlimited demand between PDX and ANC. Of course B6 would suffer with another entrant on the route. Fortunately for them, if WN is going to start ANC it's going to be from somewhere where they have more feed and less competition (OAK, SMF, SJC, SAN, LAS, DEN, etc)


SMF-ANC? I know it’s a pseudo focus city and all now, but really?
 
Dominion301
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:57 pm

BWIAirport wrote:
DaufuskieGuy wrote:
EWRandMDW wrote:
I'm guessing that if WN acquires at least 2 more gates at EWR they could start EWR-LAX and maybe EWR-SJC and add frequencies to existing EWR-SAN and EWR-OAK routes.


wouldn't EWR SNA/BUR be preferable? No competition and they have strong presence at those stations

Does BUR have runways long enough for a fully loaded, transcontinental 73G to take off?


A 73G a good question. An 320 appears to have no problems for B6's transcons to JFK. Maybe this is a situation where the MAX -7 will play a role?
 
EWRandMDW
Posts: 371
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:45 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
DaufuskieGuy wrote:

wouldn't EWR SNA/BUR be preferable? No competition and they have strong presence at those stations

Does BUR have runways long enough for a fully loaded, transcontinental 73G to take off?


A 73G a good question. An 320 appears to have no problems for B6's transcons to JFK. Maybe this is a situation where the MAX -7 will play a role?



UA uses 73Gs nonstop between SNA and EWR and SNA's runway is shorter than BUR's
 
ucdtim17
Posts: 374
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:19 pm

flyfresno wrote:
ucdtim17 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
The O&D market for PDX-ANC is just fine. I don't think B6 will suffer if WN were to add this route...


There's not unlimited demand between PDX and ANC. Of course B6 would suffer with another entrant on the route. Fortunately for them, if WN is going to start ANC it's going to be from somewhere where they have more feed and less competition (OAK, SMF, SJC, SAN, LAS, DEN, etc)


SMF-ANC? I know it’s a pseudo focus city and all now, but really?


More likely than PDX-ANC
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:25 pm

Res WN having a regional system. It has seemed to me for quite a while that WN, Alaska and JetBlue should, after checking with monopoly/competition regulations, contract with a unique regional. Such a regional would provide coverage, and be ensured enough profitability to keep running. Alaska would benefit on the east coast, JetBlue on the west, and WN in flyover country. Those regional airports are not profitable enough to support the three bigger airlines.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
nine4nine
Posts: 188
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:30 pm

EWRandMDW wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
Does BUR have runways long enough for a fully loaded, transcontinental 73G to take off?


A 73G a good question. An 320 appears to have no problems for B6's transcons to JFK. Maybe this is a situation where the MAX -7 will play a role?



UA uses 73Gs nonstop between SNA and EWR and SNA's runway is shorter than BUR's


SNA is 1000’ shorter than BUR so I wouldn’t imagine there being any issue.
717 727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 742 748 752 753 762 763 772 773 DC9 MD80/88 DC10 319 320 321 332 333 CS100 CRJ200 E175 E190 ERJ145 EMB120
 
jplatts
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:23 pm

WN does have room to further expand at HOU both domestically and internationally.

Opportunities for domestic expansion at HOU:
  • New nonstop service from HOU to CVG, CLE, DTW, MSP, ONT, SMF, and SFO
  • Extension of HOU-CMH, HOU-PDX, and HOU-SEA seasonal nonstop service to daily year-round nonstop service
  • Revival of HOU-PHL nonstop service since PHL is one of the top destinations actually traveled to from HOU that isn't currently served nonstop from HOU
  • Revival of HOU-EWR nonstop service if additional demand for HOU-NYC nonstop service is there, even though WN is already going to be adding a 3rd nonstop in each direction between HOU and LGA starting in Summer 2018

Opportunities for international expansion at HOU:
  • New nonstop service from HOU to NAS, PLS, and PUJ
  • Nonstop service to new international destinations in Central America, South America, and the Eastern Caribbean that are not currently served by WN

I am surprised that WN does not yet serve PUJ nonstop from HOU with HOU being one of WN's main international gateways and with WN already serving PUJ nonstop from ATL, BWI, MDW, and FLL. I do expect WN to be announcing plans to serve PUJ nonstop from HOU in the near future.
 
FA9295
Posts: 577
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:24 am

ucdtim17 wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
ucdtim17 wrote:

There's not unlimited demand between PDX and ANC. Of course B6 would suffer with another entrant on the route. Fortunately for them, if WN is going to start ANC it's going to be from somewhere where they have more feed and less competition (OAK, SMF, SJC, SAN, LAS, DEN, etc)


SMF-ANC? I know it’s a pseudo focus city and all now, but really?


More likely than PDX-ANC

Only because of the possible connections (SMF as a WN focus city), but there has to be enough O&D traffic as well in order to warrant the route... Although WN flies quite a bit of routes from SoCal to PDX, so there's a possible feeder connection there...
 
Wingtips56
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:48 am

IMHO, the demand for ANC throughout A.net seems to be overstated. It's just not that big except for low-yielding cruise season and salmon cargo season.

As to SMF, my direct experience was now many years ago, but when I worked there with SFO and SEA flights, we really didn't have that many folks going on to ANC. The Alaska-bound crowd went to a variety of destinations, including ANC but also to others such as Fairbanks, Juneau, Ketchikan, Sitka, Kodiak, Nome, Kotzebue, Barrow, the Aleutians, etc. in total numbers possibly exceeding ANC as the final destination. Many could be reached with a single connection at SEA, while others connected over ANC or FAI. And yes, most of those connected to AS (some connected to NW or Wien while they were still around, and some connected to RV -- I regret never getting to fly on their Electras, but that's another story).
Granted markets have grown and changed since my time, but I don't see SMF-ANC O/D as viable. Some WN flights could bounce through or connect over SMF (as they could other points as well), but with no connections at ANC, they probably wouldn't fill the plane.

Since WN doesn't interline, I cannot count ANC as a connection point for WN in any proposed XXX-ANC market.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). My Flight Memory: 178 airports, 89 airlines, 71 a/c types, 397 routes, 56 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,101,154 miles, as a passenger.
 
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SumChristianus
Topic Author
Posts: 388
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:53 am

WN connecting traffic:https://blueswandaily.com/southwest-airlines-carrying-more-connecting-traffic-compared-to-past-ceo/
"Southwest Airlines CEO Gary Kelly stated the carrier is carrying more connecting traffic compared to its past, although its focus remains on point-to-point nonstop services (Seeking Alpha, 25-Jan-2018). Mr Kelly said he hopes to complement point-to-point with connecting traffic due to the subsequent rise in load factors, however “it’s not because they have converted us to a hub and spoke operation where we’re more dominated by connecting traffic”. Mr Kelly said the higher load factors were also “accomplished by optimising the flight schedule better and in some cases, spinning out some of the frequencies in our higher frequency markets, but not at the expense of the nonstop traffic”."


Thoughts? WN connects but doesn't connect...?
A Traddie wannaby---UA DL LH NW AA (coming soon)
"Born in Wonder, Brought to Wisdom"
 
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SumChristianus
Topic Author
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:16 am

Here are the numbers for ANC in Q3 2017 based on the DB1B report. (Directional PDEW ANC-XXX only)

    Destination Fare PDEW
    SEA $227.51 866
    FAI $121.79 299
    PDX $225.94 296
    LAX $259.32 291
    MSP $318.67 228
    DEN $334.76 194
    ORD $351.30 188
    JNU $204.06 159
    SFO $292.54 141
    PHX $300.94 137
    BET $169.78 120
    LAS $279.11 120
    SLC $303.52 116
    DFW $366.09 116
    BOS $365.61 108
    SMF $281.70 99
    HNL $354.57 95
    ATL $423.27 94
    IAH $437.22 91
    SCC $353.62 88
    BRW $221.12 81
    GEG $246.35 80
    SAN $304.97 76
    OME $207.15 73
    OTZ $212.27 72
    BOI $248.79 66
    EWR $436.00 66
    DTW $377.50 66
    MCO $347.82 62
    ADQ $178.77 57
    JFK $359.81 54
    PHL $378.35 53
    DCA $432.58 52
    MCI $340.77 48
    AUS $332.02 46
    SJC $273.03 45
    IAD $389.90 45
    STL $353.20 45
    SIT $235.27 39
    BNA $389.08 38
    BWI $398.29 37
    KTN $301.32 36
    SAT $405.58 36
    TPA $391.23 32
    RDU $370.35 32
    PIT $384.36 30
    CLT $400.36 30
    SNA $303.29 29
    RNO $320.63 29
    OAK $287.01 28
    OMA $321.54 27
    ABQ $357.34 25
    CLE $371.91 25
    OKC $362.60 25
    FLL $398.35 24
    IND $360.50 24
    LGA $395.65 24
    TUS $268.05 23
    MSO $318.15 22
    MSY $397.08 22
    DLG $216.35 21
    MFR $249.81 20
    RDM $271.72 20
    BIL $333.23 20
    EUG $258.02 19
    CDV $150.14 19
    CMH $389.55 18
    CVG $425.90 17
    BZN $314.73 17
    GRR $421.52 16


With PDX at 296 PDEW in the Summer, and at least 3x daily from AS as well as DL? and B6?, I think PDX is well served considering the relative size of WNs operation there. I think DEN, OAK, and maybe LAS would see WN service first. SEA is probably way too crowded.
A Traddie wannaby---UA DL LH NW AA (coming soon)
"Born in Wonder, Brought to Wisdom"
 
WN732
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:17 am

Perhaps something that WN could think about is partnering with an airline like Boutique Air. For instance, 4B serves MCE and would allow WN passengers in the Central Valley a quick option to connect to WN flights in OAK and LAX. 4B serves both of those destinations multiple times daily and is extremely reasonable. I booked a same day ticket for $18.99 today and the experience was awesome.
 
bob75013
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:21 pm

jplatts wrote:
WN does have room to further expand at HOU both domestically and internationally.



WN doesn't have a lot of spare planes for expansion since it got rid of all those 733s last year. Get the new planes in and the expansion will happen
 
jsteeves3
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:00 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:27 pm

Maybe opening up a small base in PVD or maybe even BOS or MHT would be practical as they are pretty weak in the New England area, let alone the northeast...
 
afcjets
Posts: 1993
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:00 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
I didn't even realize they didn't run LAX-NYC. Surprises me.


WN has only been flying to EWR for seven years. JFK/LGA not options for reasons already mentioned.


DaufuskieGuy wrote:
wouldn't EWR SNA/BUR be preferable? No competition and they have strong presence at those stations


CO/UA has been flying EWR-SNA nonstop for approximately 25 years.


Midwestindy wrote:
I believe the term is "intentional connection opportunities"


And those intentional connection opportunities take place mainly at their hubs. In most cases though, WN does not have to intentionally schedule connection opportunities for connections to exist.

The term other airlines use for WN's un-intentional connection opportunities is continuous hub. In fact, in a big way AA used WN as their model when they tried making DFW a continuous hub in that they wanted to maximize aircraft utilization by minimizing ground time at out stations rather than wait around for banks. The more flights an airline has at a hub the better it works, but it clearly works for WN too.


ctrabs0114 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

For example at DEN, the WN schedule works really efficiently to allow for faster turnaround times and connections, because of the fact that WN has built lots of “intentional connecting opportunities” into its Denver schedule. Basically they have 6+ flights arrive at exactly the same time, and all leave 35 minutes later. Just as an example a couple years ago Southwest had an east-to-west ICO, with planes scheduled to arrive at DEN from Omaha; Indianapolis; Detroit; Minneapolis; Kansas City, Mo.; and Washington Dulles, all at 8 a.m., and then depart for Spokane, Wash.; Seattle; Portland, Ore.; San Francisco; Oakland, Calif.; and Ontario, Calif.; at 8:35 a.m.


The term I've seen for this is called a 'scissors' hub, where you're running 12 routes using six planes, for all intents and purposes.


I have never heard that term before. How is what you described different than most hubs? What is a non-scissors hub then? If there is such a term, I would think it would apply more to a hub with a ton of circuitous routings, such as JetBlue at BOS.


Cubsrule wrote:
BNA has banks but it's also a ~90 flight/day operation. UA has nothing like that, and applying some label that applies to UA stations to WN cities like BNA, MCI, and SAN makes no sense.

I thought BNA had closer to 115 flights per day but it doesn't matter. Hubs have existed long before airlines operated 100 daily flights from an airport. Piedmont never operated even close to that many from their DAY hub. BWI may have reached 100 flights in their later years. B6 did not launch with 100 flights per day from JFK. I don't think anyone is calling SAN a hub for WN.
 
jplatts
Posts: 1253
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:04 pm

bob75013 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
WN does have room to further expand at HOU both domestically and internationally.



WN doesn't have a lot of spare planes for expansion since it got rid of all those 733s last year. Get the new planes in and the expansion will happen


While Southwest did retire 87 737-300 planes in 2017, Southwest actually took delivery of 19 used Boeing 737-700s, 39 new Boeing 737-800's, and 13 new Boeing 737 MAX 8 planes in 2017. Southwest also plans on taking delivery of at least 43 new Boeing 737 planes in 2018. Southwest should be back to the number of planes that it had at the beginning of 2017 by Summer 2018.
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 338
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:47 pm

afcjets wrote:
I have never heard that term before. How is what you described different than most hubs? What is a non-scissors hub then? If there is such a term, I would think it would apply more to a hub with a ton of circuitous routings, such as JetBlue at BOS.


A 'scissors' hub works like this hypothetical example:

WN has four flights arriving into PIT in a 'banked' hub between 09:00 and 09:30 from FLL, MCO, TPA and RSW. Presuming the standard 30-45 minute turnaround, the FLL flight continues on to MHT, the MCO flight continues to BDL, the TPA flight continues to MDW and the RSW flight continues to DTW. You're using four planes to operate eight routes with connections timed within a one-hour time frame at a hub.

The typical hub doesn't have the same coordination as the scissors hub that I described above from what I've seen. I'm sure you could make the argument that DL has that in place at ATL, but from what I've seen, those flights seem to be continuing flights (ie. PIT-ATL-RSW on the same plane).
2018: BWI, PIT, MDW, MCI, STL, DAL
 
LovePrunesAnet
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:04 am

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:04 am

ibthebigd wrote:
What domestic airport will Southwest serve next FAT, XNA, OR ANC?


Xna is NOT going to happen.
There are some local boosters on here that are sure rooting for it or thinking it will, but it ain't going to happen.
Read up thread for why I say that. If you STILL don't agree then if for no other reason than it's too much airplane...too many seats. Southwest comes into an airport and usually connects it to 2 to 4 other cities on the southeast map with flights a few times a day.

Say on the conservative side they started serving XNA with 5 or 6 flights a day somewhere...that's 1000 new seats on 737s that are seats dumped into the XNA market, a market with a total of ZERO Mainline flights ANYWHERE on US3 aircraft, that oh by the way only have half the capacity into XNA of any aircraft WN would use. If there was more demand the US3 would fly bigger planes or greater frequency.

WN is NOT HAPPENING in XNA. everyone who wants to fly Southwest will keep driving.
Last edited by LovePrunesAnet on Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
ADrum23
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Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:07 am

Any word on any new routes from BNA?
 
afcjets
Posts: 1993
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:49 am

ctrabs0114 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
I have never heard that term before. How is what you described different than most hubs? What is a non-scissors hub then? If there is such a term, I would think it would apply more to a hub with a ton of circuitous routings, such as JetBlue at BOS.


A 'scissors' hub works like this hypothetical example:

WN has four flights arriving into PIT in a 'banked' hub between 09:00 and 09:30 from FLL, MCO, TPA and RSW. Presuming the standard 30-45 minute turnaround, the FLL flight continues on to MHT, the MCO flight continues to BDL, the TPA flight continues to MDW and the RSW flight continues to DTW. You're using four planes to operate eight routes with connections timed within a one-hour time frame at a hub.

The typical hub doesn't have the same coordination as the scissors hub that I described above from what I've seen. I'm sure you could make the argument that DL has that in place at ATL, but from what I've seen, those flights seem to be continuing flights (ie. PIT-ATL-RSW on the same plane).


You just again described how a traditional hub with connecting banks works, whether airlines prefer to use thru flight numbers or new ones makes no difference. I actually searched for the term online and wikipedia gives a few examples and it makes sense now. It really seems to be more of an intermediary hub, where from a main hub you would stop or connecting through a small scissors hub to get to your destination. Even though it is not mentioned, I think Guam for UA would be a perfect example.
 
jplatts
Posts: 1253
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:40 am

LovePrunesAnet wrote:
Say on the conservative side they started serving XNA with 5 or 6 flights a day somewhere...that's 1000 new seats on 737s that are seats dumped into the XNA market, a market with a total of ZERO Mainline flights ANYWHERE on US3 aircraft, that oh by the way only have half the capacity into XNA of any aircraft WN would use. If there was more demand the US3 would fly bigger planes or greater frequency.

WN is NOT HAPPENING in XNA. everyone who wants to fly Southwest will keep driving.


I agree that WN will not serve XNA in the near future.

WN does serve markets smaller than XNA in Texas, including AMA, LBB, MAF, and CRP. However, DL does not serve AMA, LBB, MAF, and CRP, and WN has been at LBB, MAF, CRP, and AMA for over 39 years.

XNA does have nonstop service to AA's CLT, ORD, LAX, LGA, and DCA hubs, DL's ATL, MSP, and LGA hubs, DL's CVG focus city, and UA's ORD, EWR, and SFO hubs. On the other hand, AMA, LBB, MAF, and CRP do not have any nonstop service to these 10 US3 hub airports.

There is less need for WN at XNA than there is in the smaller Texas markets served by WN with DL serving XNA and with XNA having nonstop service to 13 US3 hub airports.

WN does serve LIT, but LIT is in a bigger metropolitan area than XNA is in. LIT also does not have any nonstop service to CVG, MSP, LGA, EWR, or SFO. On the other hand, WN does serve DAL, LAS, PHX, and STL nonstop from LIT, whereas STL and PHX have no nonstop service out of XNA on any airline. There are also more passengers who travel to and from LIT than there are who travel to and from XNA, with 1,930,000 passengers per year who travel to or from LIT vs. 1,371,000 passengers per year who travel to and from XNA.
 
WN737MAX
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:11 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:43 am

Upcoming network additions (already announced). Please feel free to make corrections:
FLL-AUA (Daily) March 8
MKE-HOU (Daily) March 8
FLL-JAX (3x Daily) April 8
SFO-AUS (Daily) April 8
SAT-FLL (Daily) July 8
SAN-EWR April 8 (Going daily year around)

SMF-SJD March 10 (Saturday only)
SMF-MSY March 11 (Sunday only)
SMF-AUS April 8 (Daily)
SMF-STL April 8 (Daily)
SMF-MCO May 6 (Daily)

SJC-SJD March 10 (Saturday)
SJC-BOI April 8 (Daily)
SJC-HOU April 8 (Daily)
SJC-GEG April 8 (Daily)
SJC-MCO May 6 (Daily)

OAK-SAT July 8 (Daily)
OAK-MSP July 15 (Daily)
OAK-IND July 15 (Daily)
OAK-MCO July 15 (Daily) *Currently Saturday only

SAN-PVR March 10 (Saturday)
SAN-ELP March 11 (Sunday)
CUN-CMH April 14 (Saturday)
CUN-MSY April 14 (Saturday)
PIT-CUN June 9 (Seasonal, Saturday)
RDU-CUN June 9 (Seasonal, Saturday)
HOU-GCM June 9 (Saturday)
BWI-NAS June 10 (Saturday)

Seasonal flights new and returning April & June:
HOU-PDX (Daily)
DEN-CHS (Daily)
ABQ-MCO (Saturday)
MCI-PNS (Saturday)
SAT-CUN June 7 (Daily)
MDW-SJU (Daily)
OMA-MCO (Daily)
BOI-DAL (Saturday)
DEN-ECP (Saturday)
TUL-MCO (Saturday)

FNT axed June 6, 2018

PAE TBD
Hawaii TBD
Last edited by WN737MAX on Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
dolphinflyer
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 9:57 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:06 am

flyfresno wrote:
ucdtim17 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
The O&D market for PDX-ANC is just fine. I don't think B6 will suffer if WN were to add this route...


There's not unlimited demand between PDX and ANC. Of course B6 would suffer with another entrant on the route. Fortunately for them, if WN is going to start ANC it's going to be from somewhere where they have more feed and less competition (OAK, SMF, SJC, SAN, LAS, DEN, etc)


SMF-ANC? I know it’s a pseudo focus city and all now, but really?


3Q2017 O&D of 102 PPDEW, up 5% yoy. SMF-ANC has VERY strong demand during peak season and warrants nonstop service.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 12906
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:19 am

afcjets wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
I have never heard that term before. How is what you described different than most hubs? What is a non-scissors hub then? If there is such a term, I would think it would apply more to a hub with a ton of circuitous routings, such as JetBlue at BOS.


A 'scissors' hub works like this hypothetical example:

WN has four flights arriving into PIT in a 'banked' hub between 09:00 and 09:30 from FLL, MCO, TPA and RSW. Presuming the standard 30-45 minute turnaround, the FLL flight continues on to MHT, the MCO flight continues to BDL, the TPA flight continues to MDW and the RSW flight continues to DTW. You're using four planes to operate eight routes with connections timed within a one-hour time frame at a hub.

The typical hub doesn't have the same coordination as the scissors hub that I described above from what I've seen. I'm sure you could make the argument that DL has that in place at ATL, but from what I've seen, those flights seem to be continuing flights (ie. PIT-ATL-RSW on the same plane).


You just again described how a traditional hub with connecting banks works, whether airlines prefer to use thru flight numbers or new ones makes no difference. I actually searched for the term online and wikipedia gives a few examples and it makes sense now. It really seems to be more of an intermediary hub, where from a main hub you would stop or connecting through a small scissors hub to get to your destination. Even though it is not mentioned, I think Guam for UA would be a perfect example.


I’m not sure that thru flight numbers really makes no difference. Without thru flight numbers, the BNA-DAL-SAN and BNA-HOU-SAN that leave and arrive within an hour of each other are interchangeable for passengers. Thru flight numbers allow WN to encourage passengers to use one or the other, freeing up capacity on the “non-thru” flights.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Jshank83
Posts: 1463
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:20 am

WN737MAX wrote:
Upcoming network additions (already announced). Please feel free to make corrections:
FLL-AUA (Daily) March 8
MKE-HOU (Daily) March 8
FLL-JAX (3x Daily) April 8
SFO-AUS (Daily) April 8
SAT-FLL (Daily) July 8
SAN-EWR April 8 (Going daily year around)

SMF-SJD March 10 (Saturday only)
SMF-MSY March 11 (Sunday only)
SMF-AUS April 8 (Daily)
SMF-STL April 8 (Daily)
SMF-MCO May 6 (Daily)

SJC-SJD March 10 (Saturday)
SJC-BOI April 8 (Daily)
SJC-HOU April 8 (Daily)
SJC-GEG April 8 (Daily)
SJC-MCO May 6 (Daily)

OAK-SAT July 8 (Daily)
OAK-MSP July 15 (Daily)
OAK-IND July 15 (Daily)
OAK-MCO July 15 (Daily) *Currently Saturday only

SAN-PVR March 10 (Saturday)
SAN-ELP March 11 (Sunday)
CUN-CMH April 14 (Saturday)
CUN-MSY April 14 (Saturday)
PIT-CUN June 9 (Seasonal, Saturday)
RDU-CUN June 9 (Seasonal, Saturday)
HOU-GCM June 9 (Saturday)
BWI-NAS June 10 (Saturday)

Seasonal flights new and returning April & June:
HOU-PDX (Daily)
DEN-CHS (Daily)
ABQ-MCO (Saturday)
MCI-PNS (Saturday)
SAT-CUN June 7 (Daily)
MDW-SJU (Daily)
OMA-MCO (Daily)
BOI-DAL (Saturday)
DEN-ECP (Saturday)
TUL-MCO (Saturday)

FNT axed June 6, 2018

PAE TBD
Hawaii TBD



STL-SJC April 8 (Daily)
STL-PBI March 10 (Seasonal, Saturday)

Seasonal Returning in June
STL-CHS June 7 (Daily)
STL-PNS June 9 (Saturday)
Last edited by Jshank83 on Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 1463
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:03 am

^also STL-ECP seasonal returns daily March 7. Adds a 2nd Saturday starting June 9.
STL-CUN goes daily March 8 to then back to Saturday only after April 8.
Last edited by Jshank83 on Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 2299
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:06 am

WN737MAX wrote:
Upcoming network additions (already announced). Please feel free to make corrections:
FLL-AUA (Daily) March 8
MKE-HOU (Daily) March 8
FLL-JAX (3x Daily) April 8
SFO-AUS (Daily) April 8
SAT-FLL (Daily) July 8
SAN-EWR April 8 (Going daily year around)

SMF-SJD March 10 (Saturday only)
SMF-MSY March 11 (Sunday only)
SMF-AUS April 8 (Daily)
SMF-STL April 8 (Daily)
SMF-MCO May 6 (Daily)

SJC-SJD March 10 (Saturday)
SJC-BOI April 8 (Daily)
SJC-HOU April 8 (Daily)
SJC-GEG April 8 (Daily)
SJC-MCO May 6 (Daily)

OAK-SAT July 8 (Daily)
OAK-MSP July 15 (Daily)
OAK-IND July 15 (Daily)
OAK-MCO July 15 (Daily) *Currently Saturday only

SAN-PVR March 10 (Saturday)
SAN-ELP March 11 (Sunday)
CUN-CMH April 14 (Saturday)
CUN-MSY April 14 (Saturday)
PIT-CUN June 9 (Seasonal, Saturday)
RDU-CUN June 9 (Seasonal, Saturday)
HOU-GCM June 9 (Saturday)
BWI-NAS June 10 (Saturday)

Seasonal flights new and returning April & June:
HOU-PDX (Daily)
DEN-CHS (Daily)
ABQ-MCO (Saturday)
MCI-PNS (Saturday)
SAT-CUN June 7 (Daily)
MDW-SJU (Daily)
OMA-MCO (Daily)
BOI-DAL (Saturday)
DEN-ECP (Saturday)
TUL-MCO (Saturday)

FNT axed June 6, 2018

PAE TBD
Hawaii TBD


IND-AUS/CUN
2018: AMS, ATL, BOS, CDG, CLT, DCA, DFW, DTW, EWR, FLL, HPN, JFK, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, MIA, MSP, ORD, PHL, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, TPA, TXL, ZRH....Loading....
 
afcjets
Posts: 1993
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:31 am

Cubsrule wrote:
afcjets wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:

A 'scissors' hub works like this hypothetical example:

WN has four flights arriving into PIT in a 'banked' hub between 09:00 and 09:30 from FLL, MCO, TPA and RSW. Presuming the standard 30-45 minute turnaround, the FLL flight continues on to MHT, the MCO flight continues to BDL, the TPA flight continues to MDW and the RSW flight continues to DTW. You're using four planes to operate eight routes with connections timed within a one-hour time frame at a hub.

The typical hub doesn't have the same coordination as the scissors hub that I described above from what I've seen. I'm sure you could make the argument that DL has that in place at ATL, but from what I've seen, those flights seem to be continuing flights (ie. PIT-ATL-RSW on the same plane).


You just again described how a traditional hub with connecting banks works, whether airlines prefer to use thru flight numbers or new ones makes no difference. I actually searched for the term online and wikipedia gives a few examples and it makes sense now. It really seems to be more of an intermediary hub, where from a main hub you would stop or connecting through a small scissors hub to get to your destination. Even though it is not mentioned, I think Guam for UA would be a perfect example.


I’m not sure that thru flight numbers really makes no difference. Without thru flight numbers, the BNA-DAL-SAN and BNA-HOU-SAN that leave and arrive within an hour of each other are interchangeable for passengers. Thru flight numbers allow WN to encourage passengers to use one or the other, freeing up capacity on the “non-thru” flights.


I meant makes no difference in determining in whether or not or not a hub is a scissors hub.
 
jplatts
Posts: 1253
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:01 pm

WN737MAX wrote:
Upcoming network additions (already announced). Please feel free to make corrections:


WN will be discontinuing DAL-MKE nonstop service on March 7th.

WN will be adding seasonal CVG-PHX nonstop service starting on March 8th and ending on April 7th.

WN will be operating Sunday-only DAL-MSP nonstop service starting on June 10th.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 1463
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:44 am

Now that we are nearing the next schedule extension (Feb 15) does anyone have any predictions. I am always curious to see what people predict vs what happens.
 
FLYKTPA
Posts: 322
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:56 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:04 am

Jshank83 wrote:
Now that we are nearing the next schedule extension (Feb 15) does anyone have any predictions. I am always curious to see what people predict vs what happens.

I think you will see more new California service. FLL-OAK/LAX/SAN/SJC/SMF all seem like possibilities. I've heard that WN is interested in TPA-LAX.
Huge fan of Tampa International Airport
 
User avatar
dolphinflyer
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 9:57 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:18 am

New WN schedule release on Feb 15 covers the period Aug 7 - Oct 1, 2018. Height of hurricane season, so I wouldn't predict any major growth in hurricane prone areas (e.g. Florida, Caribbean, Houston). Hopefully the new PNE routes (5 flights) will be announced. Seems too early to announce Hawaii schedules. If recent history is any indicator, it seems likely that LUV flying will grow to/from/within California. Would be nice to see BNA get some new service.
 
AAflyguy
Posts: 245
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:59 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:42 am

OAK-EWR returns in April after 2017 Summer service and will become daily year-round. Think that’s worth noting since it only flew for one season before the major upgrade.
 
jplatts
Posts: 1253
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:19 pm

FLYKTPA wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Now that we are nearing the next schedule extension (Feb 15) does anyone have any predictions. I am always curious to see what people predict vs what happens.

I think you will see more new California service. FLL-OAK/LAX/SAN/SJC/SMF all seem like possibilities. I've heard that WN is interested in TPA-LAX.


The 4 largest markets in the U.S. that have never had nonstop service to Florida on WN are Greater Los Angeles, Greater Seattle, Greater Portland (OR), and Greater Cincinnati.

In addition to LAX, WN could also add nonstop service to TPA from CVG, CLE, OAK, SJC, and SMF.

I could also see WN adding LAX-MCO as Greater Los Angeles is in the largest metro area that has never had nonstop service to MCO on WN. LAX is also the largest WN station that has never had any nonstop service to MCO.

CVG and LGA are the only remaining airports still currently served by WN in the U.S. located east of the Mississippi and outside of Florida that have never had any nonstop service to MCO on WN. WN could add CVG-MCO nonstop service since the demand for CVG-MCO nonstop service has been increasing since WN's entry into CVG. WN could also possibly add LGA-MCO nonstop service if it can get extra slots at LGA, but WN might be able to do Saturday-only LGA-MCO nonstop service.

WN could also possibly add nonstop service to Florida destinations from PDX since AS is the only airline to serve Florida nonstop from PDX, since AS only currently operates 1 daily nonstop in each direction between PDX and MCO, and since FLL, MIA, and TPA currently have no nonstop service to PDX. PDX also doesn't have a US3 hub or AA nonstop service to MIA, whereas SEA has a DL hub, nonstop service to MCO on DL, seasonal nonstop service to FLL on DL, and nonstop service to MIA on AA.

ELP, TUS, and ICT are located in three of the largest U.S. metropolitan areas west of the Mississippi River that do not have any nonstop service to FLL, MIA, MCO, or TPA, and WN has opportunities to add nonstop service to Florida from ELP, TUS, and ICT.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 1463
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:08 pm

jplatts wrote:
FLYKTPA wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Now that we are nearing the next schedule extension (Feb 15) does anyone have any predictions. I am always curious to see what people predict vs what happens.

I think you will see more new California service. FLL-OAK/LAX/SAN/SJC/SMF all seem like possibilities. I've heard that WN is interested in TPA-LAX.


The 4 largest markets in the U.S. that have never had nonstop service to Florida on WN are Greater Los Angeles, Greater Seattle, Greater Portland (OR), and Greater Cincinnati.

In addition to LAX, WN could also add nonstop service to TPA from CVG, CLE, OAK, SJC, and SMF.

I could also see WN adding LAX-MCO as Greater Los Angeles is in the largest metro area that has never had nonstop service to MCO on WN. LAX is also the largest WN station that has never had any nonstop service to MCO.

CVG and LGA are the only remaining airports still currently served by WN in the U.S. located east of the Mississippi and outside of Florida that have never had any nonstop service to MCO on WN. WN could add CVG-MCO nonstop service since the demand for CVG-MCO nonstop service has been increasing since WN's entry into CVG. WN could also possibly add LGA-MCO nonstop service if it can get extra slots at LGA, but WN might be able to do Saturday-only LGA-MCO nonstop service.

WN could also possibly add nonstop service to Florida destinations from PDX since AS is the only airline to serve Florida nonstop from PDX, since AS only currently operates 1 daily nonstop in each direction between PDX and MCO, and since FLL, MIA, and TPA currently have no nonstop service to PDX. PDX also doesn't have a US3 hub or AA nonstop service to MIA, whereas SEA has a DL hub, nonstop service to MCO on DL, seasonal nonstop service to FLL on DL, and nonstop service to MIA on AA.

ELP, TUS, and ICT are located in three of the largest U.S. metropolitan areas west of the Mississippi River that do not have any nonstop service to FLL, MIA, MCO, or TPA, and WN has opportunities to add nonstop service to Florida from ELP, TUS, and ICT.


I am going to ask you to clean this up a bit by asking this question. We know they aren't adding all those suggestions in the next update, so let's say WN can only add 5 new routes this update. What 5 do you think they would be? Not routes they might add a year or 3 from now. Top 5 most likely routes you think they would add in the update next week.
 
tphuang
Posts: 1211
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:09 pm

FLYKTPA wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Now that we are nearing the next schedule extension (Feb 15) does anyone have any predictions. I am always curious to see what people predict vs what happens.

I think you will see more new California service. FLL-OAK/LAX/SAN/SJC/SMF all seem like possibilities. I've heard that WN is interested in TPA-LAX.

they are more likely to do TPA-LAX than anything out of FLL. WN really does very poorly in transcon markets outside of its fortress hub markets routes like BWI-LAX.

On the more premium FLL-LAX/Bay Area routes, B6 would just slaughter them. The y fares are atrocious on these routes. WN model simply doesn't work here.
 
User avatar
SumChristianus
Topic Author
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:00 am

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:16 pm

On new cities FAT or MSN seems most likely (but not very likely). For actual announcements I would guess PAE routes, LAX-EWR, CVG-DEN, IND-BNA*, LAX-CMH.

Well, these are just my hopes, I don't really have an idea what they will add.

RDU-RSW, CLT-DEN, LAX-SEA, and CVG-MCO may be farther out possibilities. BZN, JAC, and RAP would be nice DEN feeders, but are probably too small and/or seasonal for WN.

*IND-BNA was previously stated one of the top three requested destinations from WN's BNA passengers.
A Traddie wannaby---UA DL LH NW AA (coming soon)
"Born in Wonder, Brought to Wisdom"
 
dbo861
Posts: 927
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 2:20 am

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:47 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
On new cities FAT or MSN seems most likely (but not very likely). For actual announcements I would guess PAE


Historically WN has only opened 1 maybe 2 cities per year (international has been a slightly different animal). This year they opened CVG and they also just announced PAE. Last year it was LGB. Before that, I believe the last domestic city they opened was pre-merger. That being said, I highly doubt we’ll see any new cities announced this year. They keep teasing Hawaii, so I’m guessing HNL is the next city they announce.

Also, when they announced LGB and CVG, and most recently PAE, the announcement for the new city came out before the schedule was extended. So if they do add another city, I’m sure we’ll find out before the schedule is released.

Do we know if the terminal at PAE will open during the time of this schedule extension?
 
Jshank83
Posts: 1463
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:59 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
On new cities FAT or MSN seems most likely (but not very likely). For actual announcements I would guess PAE routes, LAX-EWR, CVG-DEN, IND-BNA*, LAX-CMH.



CVG-DEN is a route for WN I think will get added at some point but I can't figure out when. G4, F9, DL, and UA all aready run it so does WN really want to be the 5th on it? I know its a big connection hub for WN (so it will happen eventually) but part of me wonders if they will avoid it for awhile because of all the other airlines on it. I could see them adding PHX year round or maybe LAS instead. That said I wouldn't be shocked if it was added now, I just wouldn't be shocked if it isn't added for awhile either.
 
georgiabill
Posts: 1055
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 11:53 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:12 pm

I am hoping to see WN restore MHT-DEN,MHT-FLL add additional frequency MHT-MDW and start a seasonal MHT-RSW service. For a long shot I would like to see WN add MHT-HOU at some point.
 
jplatts
Posts: 1253
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:06 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
SumChristianus wrote:
On new cities FAT or MSN seems most likely (but not very likely). For actual announcements I would guess PAE routes, LAX-EWR, CVG-DEN, IND-BNA*, LAX-CMH.



CVG-DEN is a route for WN I think will get added at some point but I can't figure out when. G4, F9, DL, and UA all aready run it so does WN really want to be the 5th on it? I know its a big connection hub for WN (so it will happen eventually) but part of me wonders if they will avoid it for awhile because of all the other airlines on it. I could see them adding PHX year round or maybe LAS instead. That said I wouldn't be shocked if it was added now, I just wouldn't be shocked if it isn't added for awhile either.


PDX is one of the top destinations traveled to from CVG that doesn't currently have any nonstop service from CVG, and WN could use DEN as an alternate connecting point to connect passengers to PDX from CVG if it adds CVG-DEN nonstop service.

WN only serves BOI and GEG seasonally from MDW, but WN does have year-round nonstop service to BOI and GEG from DEN. Most of the other connections that could be made through DEN on WN could also be made through MDW, HOU, or LAS if WN added CVG-HOU and CVG-LAS nonstop service.

WN does not serve PVR or SJD nonstop from MDW, but it does serve these destinations nonstop from HOU and DEN. WN would be able to connect passengers to PVR and SJD from CVG if it adds CVG-HOU or CVG-DEN nonstop service.

WN might be able to make CVG-DEN nonstop service work if WN schedules CVG-DEN nonstops to allow for connections to destinations in the Pacific Northwest, Northern California, and international destinations in Western Mexico from CVG. There are also many Denver-area customers who prefer to fly on WN over UA, F9, and DL, even with F9 having its home base at DEN and even with UA having its 4th largest hub at DEN. The demand for CVG-DEN nonstop service has also been increasing during the last 2 years.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 1463
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:10 pm

jplatts wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
SumChristianus wrote:
On new cities FAT or MSN seems most likely (but not very likely). For actual announcements I would guess PAE routes, LAX-EWR, CVG-DEN, IND-BNA*, LAX-CMH.



CVG-DEN is a route for WN I think will get added at some point but I can't figure out when. G4, F9, DL, and UA all aready run it so does WN really want to be the 5th on it? I know its a big connection hub for WN (so it will happen eventually) but part of me wonders if they will avoid it for awhile because of all the other airlines on it. I could see them adding PHX year round or maybe LAS instead. That said I wouldn't be shocked if it was added now, I just wouldn't be shocked if it isn't added for awhile either.


PDX is one of the top destinations traveled to from CVG that doesn't currently have any nonstop service from CVG, and WN could use DEN as an alternate connecting point to connect passengers to PDX from CVG if it adds CVG-DEN nonstop service.

WN only serves BOI and GEG seasonally from MDW, but WN does have year-round nonstop service to BOI and GEG from DEN. Most of the other connections that could be made through DEN on WN could also be made through MDW, HOU, or LAS if WN added CVG-HOU and CVG-LAS nonstop service.

WN does not serve PVR or SJD nonstop from MDW, but it does serve these destinations nonstop from HOU and DEN. WN would be able to connect passengers to PVR and SJD from CVG if it adds CVG-HOU or CVG-DEN nonstop service.

WN might be able to make CVG-DEN nonstop service work if WN schedules CVG-DEN nonstops to allow for connections to destinations in the Pacific Northwest, Northern California, and international destinations in Western Mexico from CVG. There are also many Denver-area customers who prefer to fly on WN over UA, F9, and DL, even with F9 having its home base at DEN and even with UA having its 4th largest hub at DEN. The demand for CVG-DEN nonstop service has also been increasing during the last 2 years.


I understand what routes run through which station, I can read a route map. That still doesn't change the fact that 4 different airlines already run the route. Each city already has its biggest airline on it, so I think the local flyers are pretty well covered. Like I said earlier I wouldn't be shocked if they add it and I could just see the reasoning it could be a little before they do, if they don't add it soon.

Like I mentioned and you repeated, they can make most of those connections adding PHX or LAS also. Those routes have less competition than DEN-CVG at the moment, so to me they make more sense. They can add HOU for Mexican routes if they want to flow people to Mexico from CVG.

I am still waiting on your 5 most likely route adds this update instead of the 100s of options you throw out there. I want to know what 5 routes YOU think are most likely to be added in the system THIS update, not years from now.
 
LovePrunesAnet
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:04 am

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:38 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Now that we are nearing the next schedule extension (Feb 15) does anyone have any predictions. I am always curious to see what people predict vs what happens.


A few on here rooting for XNA
say XNA-HNL. probably have to wait behind LIT-XNA to start first, however. On the new A380 fleet.
 
jbmitt
Posts: 572
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2002 3:59 am

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:58 am

SumChristianus wrote:
On new cities FAT or MSN seems most likely (but not very likely). For actual announcements I would guess PAE routes, LAX-EWR, CVG-DEN, IND-BNA*, LAX-CMH.

Well, these are just my hopes, I don't really have an idea what they will add.

RDU-RSW, CLT-DEN, LAX-SEA, and CVG-MCO may be farther out possibilities. BZN, JAC, and RAP would be nice DEN feeders, but are probably too small and/or seasonal for WN.

*IND-BNA was previously stated one of the top three requested destinations from WN's BNA passengers.



Just to challenge you.. why would WN fly to BZN and not BIL? BIL is the larger city (largest in MT) and has more business ties, but BZN has more tourism, MSU and the tech scene.
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 4436
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Southwest Airlines Network Thread 2018

Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:58 am

I would be surprised to see this coming extension announce schedules from PAE. Neither UA nor AS has released details other than the destinations they will offer from Everett so I don't expect WN to do so now.

For one thing, I think the cx are holding off even the start dates of service due to possible construction delays (it does rain a bit in the greater Seattle area!) resulting in later than expected terminal readiness. WN has the added advantage in not even announcing the destinations yet; I think they're in no hurry to release anything regarding PAE for a while.
Kind of similar to their Hawaii strategy...

I personally don't expect anything huge in this release. There will be some seasonal adjustments, and backing off of the peak summer schedules. (There are certainly some things I would love to see added from SAN but I doubt there will be anything -- not in years has WN announced anything new for SAN as part of an August sked extension.)

SAN-PVR March 10 (Saturday)

Minor correction: service will operate Sat and Sun (expected to be year-round.)

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Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos