Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
AirbusMDCFAN wrote:Link/Source: https://worldairlinenews.com/2018/01/27 ... operation/
"United Airlines inherited the Micronesia and Guam route map from Continental Airlines. United is now following through on its plans to downsize its presence at Guam."
"The carrier will drop the Guam – Shanghai (Pudong) route on March 25. On April 2, the airline will delete the Guam – Sendai route."
What other cuts are coming to the Guam operation and will the Island hopper see cuts or reduced frequencies
SumChristianus wrote:The NK (North Korea) not Spirit (Haha) threat has hurt GUM demand. They announced reductions last summer, I believe.
zakuivcustom wrote:As for PVG, (mainland) Chinese never really visited Guam in droves, even though they're pretty much everywhere nowaday.
eamondzhang wrote:zakuivcustom wrote:As for PVG, (mainland) Chinese never really visited Guam in droves, even though they're pretty much everywhere nowaday.
Because of the need of US Visa. Many holds the belief that if I have to go through all the hassles getting the visa, I would rather go to the Mainland than Guam.
Michael
zakuivcustom wrote:eamondzhang wrote:zakuivcustom wrote:As for PVG, (mainland) Chinese never really visited Guam in droves, even though they're pretty much everywhere nowaday.
Because of the need of US Visa. Many holds the belief that if I have to go through all the hassles getting the visa, I would rather go to the Mainland than Guam.
Michael
I keep forgetting about that. On the other hand, it's also weird that (mainland) Chinese citizen does not need a visa to Northern Mariana Island (i.e. Saipan), but need one for Guam .
eamondzhang wrote:Many holds the belief that if I have to go through all the hassles getting the visa, I would rather go to the Mainland than Guam.
planemanofnz wrote:PVG - GUM is more than 3 times the distance of PVG - LAX, with GUM having a totally different offering and market to the Mainland USA?
planemanofnz wrote:Isn't it more, if we have to get visas for GUM, we may as well go to Boracay (not LAX or MIA)?
planemanofnz wrote:Although visas may play some role here, I suspect this has more to do with destination quality:
- The Chinese having Hainan (domestically), which is as good a destination as GUM on the beach holiday front, and more catered to them
- More superior international beach holiday destinations across the Philippines, Vietnam and elsewhere, being closer to travel to than GUM
eamondzhang wrote:I think you got the order wrong.
eamondzhang wrote:Hainan is full of cheats these days.
eamondzhang wrote:Thailand, Philippines and Vietnam are far cheaper than GUM does.
planemanofnz wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:And not as tailored to the Chinese.
ual763 wrote:Yeah, I agree with others. This is hardly a downsizing of GUM. Where they've cut, they've added. For example, the increased frequency of the island hopper. With the exception of some of the Asian mainland routes, Guam is extremely profitable for United. Even though the load factors aren't seemingly great, the subsidies United gets to fly between the Pacific islands is worth it alone. They are truly the lifeline of a number of these islands, and in some cases, their only contact with the outside World. Cargo is really important on the Guam routes, not so much passenger loads.
LAXintl wrote:This is part of previously announced cuts from October.
Twice weekly PVG was, in essence a charter but operated using scheduled authority, so not much of loss. SDJ frequency was previously reduced as well.
Among other things CTS was also cut entirely last week (eff 1/15)
This largely part of adjustments following the return of 3 of 11 Guam based aircraft to mainland last year.
.
77H wrote:One of the most disruptive aspects of the GUM “downsizing” is the loss of WB flights between NRT and GUM in terms of cargo (as you mention above). Most cargo from ConUS actually flows over JP. The HNL-GUM flight is mostly mail.
77H
jayunited wrote:77H wrote:One of the most disruptive aspects of the GUM “downsizing” is the loss of WB flights between NRT and GUM in terms of cargo (as you mention above). Most cargo from ConUS actually flows over JP. The HNL-GUM flight is mostly mail.
77H
The 777s return to the NRT-GUM the first week of February the downguage of equipment was only temporary. Starting in February 2 of the 3 daily NRT-GUM-NRT flights will once again utilize domestic 777s.
DolphinAir747 wrote:Does cutting GUM-PVG open up the opportunity for a new PVG flight on UA? With the way Chinese route authorities work.
EssentialBusDC wrote:jayunited wrote:77H wrote:One of the most disruptive aspects of the GUM “downsizing” is the loss of WB flights between NRT and GUM in terms of cargo (as you mention above). Most cargo from ConUS actually flows over JP. The HNL-GUM flight is mostly mail.
77H
The 777s return to the NRT-GUM the first week of February the downguage of equipment was only temporary. Starting in February 2 of the 3 daily NRT-GUM-NRT flights will once again utilize domestic 777s.
However for March we are being told things are still up in the air with regards to the 777 and “GUM-NRT: Pending updates.”
eamondzhang wrote:zakuivcustom wrote:eamondzhang wrote:Because of the need of US Visa. Many holds the belief that if I have to go through all the hassles getting the visa, I would rather go to the Mainland than Guam.
Michael
I keep forgetting about that. On the other hand, it's also weird that (mainland) Chinese citizen does not need a visa to Northern Mariana Island (i.e. Saipan), but need one for Guam .
Well Saipan & Guam do have their own CBP and they have the power to set their own visa regulations AFAIK, separate from the Mainland. I may be wrong though.
SPN wanted to attract enough tourists from China since (I believe) its tourist number was declining.
Michael
klakzky123 wrote:
The CMNI's immigration rules are now under US Federal jurisdiction (under the Department of Homeland Security). Both Guam and the CMNI have requested visa free access for Chinese citizens but only the CMNI received approval.
A lot of it actually has to do with asylum claims. CMNI is currently exempt from US asylum rules while Guam isn't and neither has any ability to handle asylum claims. CMNI actually asks the US government to continually extend the asylum exemption (which it has twice). Plus the US doesn't have adequate repatriation agreements with China. Guam is still pushing for Chinese visa free travel. However, Guam might want to find a way to get the asylum exemption that CMNI has. Otherwise, I don't see how Guam will ever get visa free travel for Chinese visitors.
77H wrote:EssentialBusDC wrote:jayunited wrote:
The 777s return to the NRT-GUM the first week of February the downguage of equipment was only temporary. Starting in February 2 of the 3 daily NRT-GUM-NRT flights will once again utilize domestic 777s.
However for March we are being told things are still up in the air with regards to the 777 and “GUM-NRT: Pending updates.”
Understood. What I was referencing was the downgauge of NRT-GUM to 3x 738 equipment effective in May which was part of this “downsizing” announcement. For the past few years NRT-GUM had 2x 772 and 1x 738. 3x 738 is a big drop in capacity in terms of seats and in the cargo holds.
77H
c933103 wrote:77H wrote:EssentialBusDC wrote:However for March we are being told things are still up in the air with regards to the 777 and “GUM-NRT: Pending updates.”
Understood. What I was referencing was the downgauge of NRT-GUM to 3x 738 equipment effective in May which was part of this “downsizing” announcement. For the past few years NRT-GUM had 2x 772 and 1x 738. 3x 738 is a big drop in capacity in terms of seats and in the cargo holds.
77H
It seems like JAL will be going daily 767?
c933103 wrote:77H wrote:EssentialBusDC wrote:However for March we are being told things are still up in the air with regards to the 777 and “GUM-NRT: Pending updates.”
Understood. What I was referencing was the downgauge of NRT-GUM to 3x 738 equipment effective in May which was part of this “downsizing” announcement. For the past few years NRT-GUM had 2x 772 and 1x 738. 3x 738 is a big drop in capacity in terms of seats and in the cargo holds.
77H
It seems like JAL will be going daily 767?
jlaforteza wrote:c933103 wrote:77H wrote:
Understood. What I was referencing was the downgauge of NRT-GUM to 3x 738 equipment effective in May which was part of this “downsizing” announcement. For the past few years NRT-GUM had 2x 772 and 1x 738. 3x 738 is a big drop in capacity in terms of seats and in the cargo holds.
77H
It seems like JAL will be going daily 767?
Now all the GUM-NRT flights will be B738's. Big cuts there. http://aeronauticsonline.com/united-air ... y-to-guam/
c933103 wrote:jlaforteza wrote:c933103 wrote:It seems like JAL will be going daily 767?
Now all the GUM-NRT flights will be B738's. Big cuts there. http://aeronauticsonline.com/united-air ... y-to-guam/
That's just for UA right?
77H wrote:In short, the threats made by the North Korean Leader against GUM have had a negative impact on tourism.
ridgid727 wrote:Speaking of the Cape Air ATR's. Any truth to the rumor they are relocating them to Honolulu and operating UA express interisland?
ridgid727 wrote:Speaking of the Cape Air ATR's. Any truth to the rumor they are relocating them to Honolulu and operating UA express interisland?
obelau24 wrote:ridgid727 wrote:Speaking of the Cape Air ATR's. Any truth to the rumor they are relocating them to Honolulu and operating UA express interisland?
This is anecdotal but my understanding of the Cape Air operation is that it was plagued by mechanical issues with the ATRs - can anyone confirm or correct this perspective?
HeeseokKoo wrote:77H wrote:In short, the threats made by the North Korean Leader against GUM have had a negative impact on tourism.
... tourism from Japan. Look up any statistics. Guam tourism has seen only a slight dent, if any, due to massive increase of Korean tourists. Current tourism level in Guam is either the highest or second or third highest in history. The conflict hurt only some of Guam-Japan carriers such as UA and DL. Now that North Korea tension is slowly moving away, things will only improve.
The vacancy of UA and DL is quickly filled up by JL's 2nd daily flight and Jin Air (Korean air's LCC)'s daily NRT-GUM. T'way (another Korean LCC) who is successfully operating KIX-GUM is preparing to launch NGO-GUM soon.
jlaforteza wrote:As much as I love having all the Korean LCC's coming to Guam, I've used Jeju Air quite frequently to go off island to Seoul and Busan for vacation, the fact of the matter is though the numbers are up overall, the Koreans spend less than the Japanese. About 1/3 less according to GVB. Money talks and Guam is hurting due to the loss of Japanese. The Japan Airline flights help a bit, but the cuts hurt more than GVB is letting on. https://www.postguam.com/news/local/sur ... b37ca.html
Part of me also thinks United is shifting more towards Micronesia instead. Although how effective will that be? I'd like to find out how many Micronesians use employee passes due to family or friends working for United.
routeplanner wrote:ridgid727 wrote:Speaking of the Cape Air ATR's. Any truth to the rumor they are relocating them to Honolulu and operating UA express interisland?
We heard that the other day in the office. Im not sure if its true or just a rumor. My buddy over at 9K was mum on the subject.
N766UA wrote:routeplanner wrote:ridgid727 wrote:Speaking of the Cape Air ATR's. Any truth to the rumor they are relocating them to Honolulu and operating UA express interisland?
We heard that the other day in the office. Im not sure if its true or just a rumor. My buddy over at 9K was mum on the subject.
Good luck living in Hawaii on 9K ATR pay.
ridgid727 wrote:Speaking of the Cape Air ATR's. Any truth to the rumor they are relocating them to Honolulu and operating UA express interisland?
HeeseokKoo wrote:jlaforteza wrote:As much as I love having all the Korean LCC's coming to Guam, I've used Jeju Air quite frequently to go off island to Seoul and Busan for vacation, the fact of the matter is though the numbers are up overall, the Koreans spend less than the Japanese. About 1/3 less according to GVB. Money talks and Guam is hurting due to the loss of Japanese. The Japan Airline flights help a bit, but the cuts hurt more than GVB is letting on. https://www.postguam.com/news/local/sur ... b37ca.html
Part of me also thinks United is shifting more towards Micronesia instead. Although how effective will that be? I'd like to find out how many Micronesians use employee passes due to family or friends working for United.
Thanks for sharing the interesting article. Koreans stay longer than Japanese but spend 1/3 (although numbers don't add up inside the article, and hotel cost has been excluded). Koreans don't take taxi and spend less on luxury items. Well, that could be obvious because most Koreans came via cheap ticket (LCC) and duty free, where Koreans spend most of their shopping budget, at Korea is cheaper and better selections than GUM. If less-Japanese more-Korean trend continues in the next few years, local business should evolve accordingly. Koreans love budget shopping - I heard Kmart is where many, if not most, Korean visitors stop by. What Guam needs for Korean visitors is a good outlet shopping mall, not another duty free shop. I hear again and again from Koreans that there's no place to shop in Guam and yet the article complains that Koreans don't do shopping in Guam.
zakuivcustom wrote:HeeseokKoo wrote:jlaforteza wrote:As much as I love having all the Korean LCC's coming to Guam, I've used Jeju Air quite frequently to go off island to Seoul and Busan for vacation, the fact of the matter is though the numbers are up overall, the Koreans spend less than the Japanese. About 1/3 less according to GVB. Money talks and Guam is hurting due to the loss of Japanese. The Japan Airline flights help a bit, but the cuts hurt more than GVB is letting on. https://www.postguam.com/news/local/sur ... b37ca.html
Part of me also thinks United is shifting more towards Micronesia instead. Although how effective will that be? I'd like to find out how many Micronesians use employee passes due to family or friends working for United.
Thanks for sharing the interesting article. Koreans stay longer than Japanese but spend 1/3 (although numbers don't add up inside the article, and hotel cost has been excluded). Koreans don't take taxi and spend less on luxury items. Well, that could be obvious because most Koreans came via cheap ticket (LCC) and duty free, where Koreans spend most of their shopping budget, at Korea is cheaper and better selections than GUM. If less-Japanese more-Korean trend continues in the next few years, local business should evolve accordingly. Koreans love budget shopping - I heard Kmart is where many, if not most, Korean visitors stop by. What Guam needs for Korean visitors is a good outlet shopping mall, not another duty free shop. I hear again and again from Koreans that there's no place to shop in Guam and yet the article complains that Koreans don't do shopping in Guam.
Agree, the math doesn't add up anyway. I see Japanese spending about $100 more on average on "Gifts/Souvenirs", but food spending between the two are the same, so is transportation.
P.S. BTW, the top Japanese shopping destination in Guam is nothing but that good ol' Guam K-Mart, aka possibly the only K-Mart that makes money
But yes, no more DFS Galleria and let's build a Guam Premium Outlet (Not Guam PREMIER Outlet, I'm referring to the one controlled by Simon Property Group) instead.