AA to begin DFW/CLT to SBN and ECP. ORD-LGA Shuttle

Dreamworks · Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:01 am

OneAA wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:
FlyPNS1 wrote:
PHL-PNS is a bit surprising as it overflies CLT and DCA. DCA-PNS was only added back last year and is supposed to go 2x daily in April.

AA's strategy in regard to PNS is quite different from DL. DL seems to prefer just to use a lot of mainline metal and send everyone to ATL. AA seems to want to split the market across many hubs with smaller aircraft...some mainline and large RJ.

There's actually quite a few overflights of CLT in these adds: ORD/DFW-MYR, ORD-CHS, ORD/DFW-ILM. All interesting.
. Given the choice, wouldn't everyone want to overfly Charlotte? Kind of a dumpy airport. Least favorite AA hub.

CLT is probably my favorite AA airport to connect in. Simple and super easy to walk from gate to gate.

F27500 · Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:11 am

PHL-OKC will likely be a Piedmont EMB145. Who would want to fly that horrible little thing on such a long flight? They already fly PHL-STL

KD5MDK · Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:22 am

Shame I'm going to SBN next month, might be a while before I go again.

FlyerTalkUserNa · Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:22 am

USPIT10L wrote:
US did not fly CLTPFN until 2006, it was served via TPA and MCO starting in 1993 until that time.

Happy for ECP to get more connectivity. Didn't know they used to have TPA and MCO service. I know 3M tried ECP-TPA for a brief time a few years back. Would love for G4 to start ECP-PIE or 3M to give ECP-TPA another shot. Great little part of the world.

USPIT10L · Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:30 am

Yep, with BE1 service. Wouldn't be surprised if that initial CLT service got the planes there for service until Mesa took it over. That's a long ride in a Beech, if that's what CCAir used in 1993.

jetmatt777 · Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:52 am

F27500 wrote:
PHL-OKC will likely be a Piedmont EMB145. Who would want to fly that horrible little thing on such a long flight? They already fly PHL-STL

Twice daily E175. Same as OMA.

https://flyokc.com/american-airlines-an ... iladelphia

ctrabs0114 · Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:32 am

AWACSooner wrote:
9w748capt wrote:

Agreed. Finally, FINALLY an actual east coast link from AA. Big time add! I wonder what equipment they'll use - E75?

I'd count CLT as an east coast link...but this makes it much easier for another NE connection, and maybe some fare competition to UA's 1x daily EWR and IAD runs.

Still waiting on WN to deliver on the long-promised DCA n/s...

Is KOKC within the mileage limits from KDCA? Also, do we know if WN could even add slots at KDCA to expand service to KOKC or other destinations within that radius?

afcjets · Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:53 am

USPIT10L wrote:
Yep, with BE1 service. Wouldn't be surprised if that initial CLT service got the planes there for service until Mesa took it over. That's a long ride in a Beech, if that's what CCAir used in 1993.

CCAir used a Dash-8 on CLT-PFN and it was their longest route.

Flighty · Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:10 am

Overall impressive effort from AA to connect the former US hubs to heartland markets and niche Florida markets.

jetmatt777 · Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:35 pm

ctrabs0114 wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
9w748capt wrote:

Agreed. Finally, FINALLY an actual east coast link from AA. Big time add! I wonder what equipment they'll use - E75?

I'd count CLT as an east coast link...but this makes it much easier for another NE connection, and maybe some fare competition to UA's 1x daily EWR and IAD runs.

Still waiting on WN to deliver on the long-promised DCA n/s...

Is KOKC within the mileage limits from KDCA? Also, do we know if WN could even add slots at KDCA to expand service to KOKC or other destinations within that radius?

Yes. On a previous slot application WN stated how important it was for OKC to be connected to DCA, and how important it was for their network. They were denied the slot. On the next slot auction, WN received slots and they somehow forgot how important OKC was on their previous application.

osupoke07 · Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:42 pm

Press release from ECP:

https://smhttp-ssl-63929.nexcesscdn.net ... elease.pdf

I've had to fly there a couple times and the timing of the Delta flights or having to fly all of the way to Houston and back on Southwest was not ideal. It'll be nice to be able to have an option through CLT now if we ever have to go back.

BN727227Ultra · Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:15 pm

Dreamworks wrote:
CLT is probably my favorite AA airport to connect in. Simple and super easy to walk from gate to gate.

I had somewhat of a walk the time I connected there, but I had lots of time and it wasn't bad at all. Sneaky how they put a Chick-Fil-A along my route :lol:

HPRamper · Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:10 pm

OneAA wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:
FlyPNS1 wrote:
PHL-PNS is a bit surprising as it overflies CLT and DCA. DCA-PNS was only added back last year and is supposed to go 2x daily in April.

AA's strategy in regard to PNS is quite different from DL. DL seems to prefer just to use a lot of mainline metal and send everyone to ATL. AA seems to want to split the market across many hubs with smaller aircraft...some mainline and large RJ.

There's actually quite a few overflights of CLT in these adds: ORD/DFW-MYR, ORD-CHS, ORD/DFW-ILM. All interesting.
. Given the choice, wouldn't everyone want to overfly Charlotte? Kind of a dumpy airport. Least favorite AA hub.

Interesting - I found it to be nicer than PHL at least, but that was several years ago. CLT for as busy as it is had sort of a quaint feel to it. I think I saw a rocking chair in one of the concourse connectors.

ahj2000 · Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:16 pm

OneAA wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:
FlyPNS1 wrote:
PHL-PNS is a bit surprising as it overflies CLT and DCA. DCA-PNS was only added back last year and is supposed to go 2x daily in April.

AA's strategy in regard to PNS is quite different from DL. DL seems to prefer just to use a lot of mainline metal and send everyone to ATL. AA seems to want to split the market across many hubs with smaller aircraft...some mainline and large RJ.

There's actually quite a few overflights of CLT in these adds: ORD/DFW-MYR, ORD-CHS, ORD/DFW-ILM. All interesting.
. Given the choice, wouldn't everyone want to overfly Charlotte? Kind of a dumpy airport. Least favorite AA hub.

Not necessarily. Both have their own destinations that they serve better. Also, I am biased, but Charlotte, while no Changi, is a breeze to connnect through. No terminal change, close walks between gates, etc. Once renovations are done in two or three years, it should be an even better experience.

UpNAWAy · Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:38 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
There are many more hub-spoke gaps that AA can fill before they start worrying about "focus cities" and what not. Some may praise DL for their "focus city" strategy and I hope it works for them, but AA+US offers many hub routes yet to be launched.

Considering there is little fleet growth I find the 52 adds impressive. Looking forward to 2019 what other big Hub gaps are still left? PHX certainly has some but I can't think of much off the top of my head for the others?

Jo8338 · Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:00 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
There are many more hub-spoke gaps that AA can fill before they start worrying about "focus cities" and what not. Some may praise DL for their "focus city" strategy and I hope it works for them, but AA+US offers many hub routes yet to be launched.

Considering there is little fleet growth I find the 52 adds impressive. Looking forward to 2019 what other big Hub gaps are still left? PHX certainly has some but I can't think of much off the top of my head for the others?

PHX - FLL should come back in 2019

AVLAirlineFreq · Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:06 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
No terminal change, close walks between gates, etc. Once renovations are done in two or three years, it should be an even better experience.

Unless you are walking from the far reaches of Concourse E, and then it may be one of the longest walks of any hub airport in America. And they continue to extend E like some crazy tentacle that will eventually be closer to downtown Charlotte than to Concourse B.

alancostello · Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:23 pm

Rdh3e wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
As far as the "shuttle" service goes - it had been rumored for awhile anyway when people were speculating how "Shuttle" service is done after DL's end their West Coast "Shuttles" (That doesn't even have hourly frequency outside of LAX-SFO). And as someone else already mentioned, AA already ran hourly (for the most part) flights between LGA and ORD, all on 738, anyway.

Just a quick data pull of average departures for 2017 full year:

Chicago-New York City: 75 RT's per day
Sydney-Melbourne: 83 RT's per day
Rio De Janiero-Sao Paulo: 103 RTs per day
Seoul-Jeju: 112 RT's per day
LA Basin-Bay Area: 196 RT's per day

Any idea of Dublin to London? Supposed to be one of the busiest routes in Europe by seat and aircraft movement.

FSDan · Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:25 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
Looking forward to 2019 what other big Hub gaps are still left? PHX certainly has some but I can't think of much off the top of my head for the others?

A few that are on my wishlist:
DFW-MDT
DFW-BUF
DFW-PVD
MIA-MKE
MIA-BUF
MIA-PVD
PHX-MSY
PHX-BNA
PHX-RDU

I think most of these would be E75 or 319 markets.

georgiabill · Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:32 pm

My AA wish list would include MHT-ORD, MHT-MIA and a resumption of mainline MHT-PHL. Perhaps wishful thinking but could work.

zakuivcustom · Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:36 pm

alancostello wrote:
Rdh3e wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
As far as the "shuttle" service goes - it had been rumored for awhile anyway when people were speculating how "Shuttle" service is done after DL's end their West Coast "Shuttles" (That doesn't even have hourly frequency outside of LAX-SFO). And as someone else already mentioned, AA already ran hourly (for the most part) flights between LGA and ORD, all on 738, anyway.

Just a quick data pull of average departures for 2017 full year:

Chicago-New York City: 75 RT's per day
Sydney-Melbourne: 83 RT's per day
Rio De Janiero-Sao Paulo: 103 RTs per day
Seoul-Jeju: 112 RT's per day
LA Basin-Bay Area: 196 RT's per day

Any idea of Dublin to London? Supposed to be one of the busiest routes in Europe by seat and aircraft movement.

Getting off topic by now, but using yesterday's number, I counted 55 RTs (18x LHR, 14x LGW, 12x LCY, 8x STN, 3x LTN). So, while it's a busy route, it's not really close to being on the top (For comparison, on one of the busier route in the world, Tokyo<->Fukuoka, there are 54 flights from HND alone to FUK, then you still have 10-12 RTs from NRT and 2 from IBR. And if you count KKJ as being in "Fukuoka Area" that number grows even more).

OKCDCA · Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:17 pm

Great to see OKC get connected to PHL. That will bring AA up to 18 daily departures out of OKC based on current numbers. The two large holes are still DCA and MIA and obviously I'd like DCA to be the next hole filled out of OKC.

Last year AA added frequencies during the summer to CLT and ORD so I'll be interested to see if they do that again this year or if these additional flights will be enough capacity through the summer. Either way, great for OKC!

ckfred · Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:42 pm

It's interesting that DL has a shuttle operation between LGA and ORD with 14 departures. LGA departures leaving 15 minutes after the hour. But, ATL-ORD only has 11 departures. Before 9/11, DL had a true shuttle operation on ATL-ORD, with hourly departures from 6am to 8pm. For flights out of ATL, all departures were from Concourse T. No need to take the train to A or B.

ckfred · Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:48 pm

Two things I would like to see from AA. First, at least seasonal or weekend service between ORD and Pensecola. UA has flown the route non-stop for some time. Second would be for AA to start adding some European non-stops from ORD year-round. With the amount of traffic going into ORD these days, it seems AA should be able to connect people at ORD for Europe, rather than sending them via DFW, PHL, DFW, or LHR.

TWFlyGuy · Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:06 pm

ckfred wrote:
It's interesting that DL has a shuttle operation between LGA and ORD with 14 departures. LGA departures leaving 15 minutes after the hour. But, ATL-ORD only has 11 departures. Before 9/11, DL had a true shuttle operation on ATL-ORD, with hourly departures from 6am to 8pm. For flights out of ATL, all departures were from Concourse T. No need to take the train to A or B.

The use of T for ORD flights was a competitive move with both AA & UAA on T with their Chicago flights.

FlyPNS1 · Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:10 pm

ckfred wrote:
Two things I would like to see from AA. First, at least seasonal or weekend service between ORD and Pensecola. UA has flown the route non-stop for some time. Second would be for AA to start adding some European non-stops from ORD year-round. With the amount of traffic going into ORD these days, it seems AA should be able to connect people at ORD for Europe, rather than sending them via DFW, PHL, DFW, or LHR.

I was surprised that AA would add PHL-PNS before trying ORD-PNS. Granted, ORD-PNS might face more competition since UA will fly it 2x daily starting in March, plus WN resumes weekend service on MDW-PNS in March. AA briefly flew ORD-PNS back around the 2006-08 period.

saab805 · Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:32 pm

F27500 wrote:
PHL-OKC will likely be a Piedmont EMB145. Who would want to fly that horrible little thing on such a long flight? They already fly PHL-STL

Looks to be a 175.

http://newsok.com/american-airlines-off ... le/5580054

osupoke07 · Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:26 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
Looking forward to 2019 what other big Hub gaps are still left? PHX certainly has some but I can't think of much off the top of my head for the others?

I'd love to see TUL get service to LAX, DCA, and LGA. Southwest already flies direct to PHX, so I doubt AA would add anything there. United used to serve TUL from EWR with a 50 seat CRJ, so I think AA with their larger FF base in Tulsa could make a nonstop work. They'd probably rather just flow that traffic over DFW/ORD/CLT though.

ifly4free · Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:50 pm

I wonder if this is the final summer schedule or will there be more new service announcements this winter and spring?

clrd4t8koff · Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:13 pm

What day does AA launch PNS-PHL? I've looked at various dates throughout June & July and see no non-stop flights.

FlyPNS1 · Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:53 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
What day does AA launch PNS-PHL? I've looked at various dates throughout June & July and see no non-stop flights.

June 7 2018.

However, according to AA, the new flights will not be on sale until Monday, January 22nd. From what I've read, PNS-PHL will be 1x daily using an E175.

paulsaz · Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:04 pm

PHX-COS or LAX-COS is a big hole in the AA network.

CIDFlyer · Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:16 am

UpNAWAy wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
There are many more hub-spoke gaps that AA can fill before they start worrying about "focus cities" and what not. Some may praise DL for their "focus city" strategy and I hope it works for them, but AA+US offers many hub routes yet to be launched.

Considering there is little fleet growth I find the 52 adds impressive. Looking forward to 2019 what other big Hub gaps are still left? PHX certainly has some but I can't think of much off the top of my head for the others?

I could see CID-PHX. Also maybe FSD-CLT.

CIDFlyer · Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:19 am

FlyPNS1 wrote:
ckfred wrote:
Two things I would like to see from AA. First, at least seasonal or weekend service between ORD and Pensecola. UA has flown the route non-stop for some time. Second would be for AA to start adding some European non-stops from ORD year-round. With the amount of traffic going into ORD these days, it seems AA should be able to connect people at ORD for Europe, rather than sending them via DFW, PHL, DFW, or LHR.

I was surprised that AA would add PHL-PNS before trying ORD-PNS. Granted, ORD-PNS might face more competition since UA will fly it 2x daily starting in March, plus WN resumes weekend service on MDW-PNS in March. AA briefly flew ORD-PNS back around the 2006-08 period.

I was surprised too, would be nice to see ORD come back yearly and on a daily basis. I know they ran it back in 2011, I actually took that flight in Feb of 2011. It ended later that year.

KD5MDK · Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:06 am

HPRamper wrote:
Interesting - I found it to be nicer than PHL at least, but that was several years ago. CLT for as busy as it is had sort of a quaint feel to it. I think I saw a rocking chair in one of the concourse connectors.

There's dozens of them in the central area including on the second floor. Nice place to sit and relax if you don't have club access and have a longer layover.
Me I hike all over the airport, gotta burn my calories.

usairways85 · Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:58 pm

PHL-OKC
8:05am - 10:25 E75
9:00pm - 11:20 E75
OKC-PHL
6:00am - 9:59 E75
10:55am - 2:55 E75

Interesting that OKC-PHL sort of connects to the TA departure bank but PHL-OKC does not connect to the TA arrival bank

PHL-PNS
1:58pm - 3:39 E75
PNS-PHL
4:09pm - 7:39 E75

PHL-FWA
1:00pm - 2:55 ER4
8:24pm - 10:24 ER4
FWA-PHL
5:36am - 7:21 ER4
3:17pm - 5:01 ER4

deltadudejg · Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:23 am

FlyerTalkUserNa wrote:
USPIT10L wrote:
US did not fly CLTPFN until 2006, it was served via TPA and MCO starting in 1993 until that time.

Happy for ECP to get more connectivity. Didn't know they used to have TPA and MCO service. I know 3M tried ECP-TPA for a brief time a few years back. Would love for G4 to start ECP-PIE or 3M to give ECP-TPA another shot. Great little part of the world.

I think ECP is too close, maybe if G4 did a WN style operation where they operated PIE-ECP-LAS-ECP-PIE. Fill the aircraft better from PIE/ECP.

9w748capt · Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:37 am

usairways85 wrote:
PHL-OKC
8:05am - 10:25 E75
9:00pm - 11:20 E75
OKC-PHL
6:00am - 9:59 E75
10:55am - 2:55 E75

Interesting that OKC-PHL sort of connects to the TA departure bank but PHL-OKC does not connect to the TA arrival bank

How so? Sure you might have a longish layover, but the evening PHL-OKC definitely allows for one stop connections from Europe.

MLIAA · Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:30 am

Both DFW/CLT-ECP and DFW/CLT-SBN will be operated by ExpressJet CRJ-700s. I was a bit surprised to see Acey pick these up instead of Envoy/Mesa from DFW or PSA from CLT. This is in addition to current service to BTR and TYS from CLT, and planned service to CHA.

usairways85 · Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:47 pm

9w748capt wrote:
usairways85 wrote:
PHL-OKC
8:05am - 10:25 E75
9:00pm - 11:20 E75
OKC-PHL
6:00am - 9:59 E75
10:55am - 2:55 E75

Interesting that OKC-PHL sort of connects to the TA departure bank but PHL-OKC does not connect to the TA arrival bank

How so? Sure you might have a longish layover, but the evening PHL-OKC definitely allows for one stop connections from Europe.

Most of AA's TA flights arrive between noon and 4. That's an average of a 7 hour connection. I don't think many people will take that option.

FSDan · Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:20 pm

ifly4free wrote:
I wonder if this is the final summer schedule or will there be more new service announcements this winter and spring?

The summer schedule won't be finalized for another month or two. Currently the schedules look to be finalized through April.

ckfred · Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:08 pm

TWFlyGuy wrote:
ckfred wrote:
It's interesting that DL has a shuttle operation between LGA and ORD with 14 departures. LGA departures leaving 15 minutes after the hour. But, ATL-ORD only has 11 departures. Before 9/11, DL had a true shuttle operation on ATL-ORD, with hourly departures from 6am to 8pm. For flights out of ATL, all departures were from Concourse T. No need to take the train to A or B.

The use of T for ORD flights was a competitive move with both AA & UAA on T with their Chicago flights.

IIRC, airport management at ATL wanted to get major cities departing out of T. This was one of the reasons why UA moved from D to T. That way, all departures for ORD, DFW, SFO, LAX, IAD/DCA, BOS, and LGA departed out of T.

It wouldn't surprise me if they picked up on what UA used to do at ORD. Back in the 1990s, all departures for BOS, LGA, PHL, DCA, MSP, and a couple of other cities left from B. UA even used to advertise that on local Chicago radio, back when Gene Hackman used to do UA commercial voiceovers.

AASAP777 · Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:33 pm

As far as I remember from my AA days (1996-2011), ORD-LGA was basically a "shuttle operation". Good thing it's being upgraded. Interesting adds on the rest of the new routes.

AASAP777 · Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:35 pm

usairways85 wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
usairways85 wrote:
PHL-OKC
8:05am - 10:25 E75
9:00pm - 11:20 E75
OKC-PHL
6:00am - 9:59 E75
10:55am - 2:55 E75

Interesting that OKC-PHL sort of connects to the TA departure bank but PHL-OKC does not connect to the TA arrival bank

How so? Sure you might have a longish layover, but the evening PHL-OKC definitely allows for one stop connections from Europe.

Most of AA's TA flights arrive between noon and 4. That's an average of a 7 hour connection. I don't think many people will take that option.

Still, OKC can get the DFW bank of transatlantic flights (not as much as PHL, but with the most important options available, especially in the summer).

OKCDCA · Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:20 pm

AASAP777 wrote:
usairways85 wrote:
9w748capt wrote:

How so? Sure you might have a longish layover, but the evening PHL-OKC definitely allows for one stop connections from Europe.

Most of AA's TA flights arrive between noon and 4. That's an average of a 7 hour connection. I don't think many people will take that option.

Still, OKC can get the DFW bank of transatlantic flights (not as much as PHL, but with the most important options available, especially in the summer).

I'm a little confused with the PHL-OKC times as well. The late flight makes sense and while it isn't the most attractive option for TA, it works for domestic. The early flight though looks like it can only allow for a handful of connections from early morning arrivals and I'm just not sure how much local traffic will fill that flight. While there has been some increased traffic between OK and PA due to the oil business, that's more in PIT.

Either way, it's good to see OKC get the flight and hopefully it works out and gets adjusted as necessary.

afcjets · Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:01 pm

AASAP777 wrote:
As far as I remember from my AA days (1996-2011), ORD-LGA was basically a "shuttle operation". Good thing it's being upgraded. Interesting adds on the rest of the new routes.

I posted earlier I thought AA started hourly flights way before UA. It turns out AA has offered hourly service since dating back at least to the 1960s, wheres UA did not start until the early to mid 1980s.

9w748capt · Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:29 am

usairways85 wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
usairways85 wrote:
PHL-OKC
8:05am - 10:25 E75
9:00pm - 11:20 E75
OKC-PHL
6:00am - 9:59 E75
10:55am - 2:55 E75

Interesting that OKC-PHL sort of connects to the TA departure bank but PHL-OKC does not connect to the TA arrival bank

How so? Sure you might have a longish layover, but the evening PHL-OKC definitely allows for one stop connections from Europe.

Most of AA's TA flights arrive between noon and 4. That's an average of a 7 hour connection. I don't think many people will take that option.

They will for the right price. And it's not like connecting through DFW or ORD (or CLT) will save any time. You underestimate just how much more one-stop connectivity this flight will bring to OKC.

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