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SumChristianus
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Delta Air Lines Network Thread - 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:37 am

Similar to the United Airlines Network Thread I think it would be good to have one about DL.
Between SEA, BOS, future high level capacity allocation among hubs, fleet deployment present and future, DL's upgauging strategy, and its international alliances, there is PLENTY to discuss.

To start out:
What do you think about ATL-SYD, ATL-BOI, DTW-HKG, MSP-COS, LAX-ORD, LAX-IAH, and SEA-KIX as future possibilities?
How will DL's CRJ200s be allocated amongst hubs as the fleet continues to draw down? Which cities will lose service or see major changes from their reduction?
What is DL doing at CVG, splitting connecting flows with DTW, BOS, spitting with NYC, and RDU, splitting with ATL?
What are Delta's plans at AUS? A focus city, or simply connecting the dots from other growing focus city operations?
Is DL winning the War for Seattle?

Bring it on...
 
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flymco753
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:52 am

I have a wishlist.

MCO-MSY CR9
MCO-AUS CR9
MCO-BUF seasonal RJ
MCO-LAS seasonal 73H beyond the convention
MCO-RIC seasonal RJ
MCO-CDG 76W
Resort and other ground transportation options are on level 1.
 
DTWorld
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:41 am

I can't help but feel a bit surprised that DTW-GDL keeps getting ignored.

Other than that, I'd love to see DTW-MUC go year round.
 
jubguy3
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:54 am

SLC is Delta's fastest growing O/D market with a 7.8 percent growth this year and a 0.58 percent growth in connections. Delta is choosing to move capacity over to other hubs, especially RJ flying, because the terminal redevelopment program is impacting gate capacity. The south arm of the E concourse has been torn down and the north end will be torn down before the completion of the TRP, in favor of hardstand operations. Connections, especially CRJ flying will decrease until 2020 when the new airport's phase one opens, so much of what I think is reasonable may be delayed until then. DL and SLCDA came to an agreement to reduce connecting capacity so that the E concourse could be demolished, making construction operations easier.

From SLC, the largest unserved markets (the largest being PIT with 65k O/D pax per year) are Pittsburgh, Columbus, Lihue, Cleveland, and Buffalo. I think all of those are feasible, except for say Buffalo which would probably do better with additional connecting capacity through Detroit.

I also want to see the following in SLC: Williston, Bismark, El Paso, Monterrey, Wichita, Edmonton, Saksatoon, Victoria, Fairbanks, along with Moab and the remaining ski airports in Colorado. The issue here is that most of these flights would likely be smaller-than-A319 flights and the airport does not have that sort of capacity at the moment. Expect 2020 and 2021 to mark a major increase in capacity in SLC.

The SLCDA is currently working with Delta to understand the feasibility of a flight to Seoul because China has consistently been SLC's fastest growing market, a joint venture with KE is being reviewed (must be approved by South Korean transport ministry) and a flight to Shanghai would be difficult to get approved because of the aviation agreements between China and the United States. However, SLC has enough passengers with a final destination in Asia served by KE to support the flight. SLC has a high proportion of business pax and frequent fliers and the SLCDA is confident that it could support a TPAC flight. I would expect it to be a strategic add in SLC's network once the joint venture is approved.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:08 am

SumChristianus wrote:
Similar to the United Airlines Network Thread I think it would be good to have one about DL.
Between SEA, BOS, future high level capacity allocation among hubs, fleet deployment present and future, DL's upgauging strategy, and its international alliances, there is PLENTY to discuss.


Reading the Q4 earnings release, a big thing they are working on is fleet complexity in outlying network cities, notably non-hub stations. DL is working to reduce the number of fleets that visit out-stations each day. Which will be a big help for maintenance. Plus all of the MD88s will be based in ATL as well...

SumChristianus wrote:
What are Delta's plans at AUS? A focus city, or simply connecting the dots from other growing focus city operations?


Possibly either one, MCO-AUS has to at the least be on DLs radar....
2018: ATL, BOS, CDG, DCA, DFW, DTW, JFK, IND, LAX, LGA, MIA, MSP, ORD, TPA....Loading....
 
BenflysDTW
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:15 pm

DTWorld wrote:
I can't help but feel a bit surprised that DTW-GDL keeps getting ignored.

Other than that, I'd love to see DTW-MUC go year round.

Yeah!!! I’ve been thinking about it all week! It would make more sense though if Aeroméxico operates the route with a daily E190. This is what happened to SLC. DL flew a daily E175, Delta ended service,Aeroméxico entered and increased capacity to what 110/day? Is the seat map for the E190? 110 seats? Even SLC gets GDL! I’d love to see MUC to that too, but is FCO more likely? As FCO starts earlier (end of March) and had a larger aircraft A333 VS 76W. Both routes are also heavily seasonal I believe.
 
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ERJ170
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:18 pm

For RDU, I don’t see a huge route growth cause Delta and the airport in general is getting to capacity. Delta can take one more gate (D16) but then Terminal 2 would be fully claimed. I see aircraft up-gauges and less RJs (perhaps DL will push more 717 and eventually CSeries).. maybe a new destination or 2 this year at most.. I would hope for ORD and SAN... but maybe no new international and DL pushing for the CDG to go 767 permanently.. other than that, I don’t know what more could happen.. Just my Thoughts
Aiming High and going far..
 
ShinyAndChrome
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:44 pm

Speaking at a personal level, SEA-KIX would be really cool. Givre how inbound tourism to Japan has grown in the past years, it might be feasible seasonally with a 767 or A330. That said, KIX has historically struggled to sustain longhaul routes and with KE already operating a strong franchise in secondary Japanese markets, I could see why it wouldn’t happen.
 
mn2018
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:47 pm

I would like to see BMI - DTW come back. With early morning and early afternoon departures it could do quite well. Traveling to the Northeast it would be so much shorter than going thru ATL. Also American must really be in a bind losing the Air Wisconsin planes . They have cut back service to ORD from a large number of Eagle stations leaving long gaps between flights. Maybe this could a nice opportunity for DTW in general.
 
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bluefltspecial
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:57 pm

flymco753 wrote:
I have a wishlist.

MCO-MSY CR9
MCO-AUS CR9
MCO-BUF seasonal RJ
MCO-LAS seasonal 73H beyond the convention
MCO-RIC seasonal RJ
MCO-CDG 76W


MCO-MSY/AUS/LAS/RIC are all previous reroutes and would be a restart.

MCO-LAS was an oddball route that did well for years with a nightly 757
MCO-MSY was 4-5 a day with CRJs when Comair dominated MCO
MCO-AUS was flown Sat only a few years back
MCO-RIC did well for a while, it looks as though B6 has grabbed that market with the loss of FL
Save a horse, ride a Fly-boy....
 
dmorbust
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:58 pm

Ever since DL nixed JFK-NRT, I am really surprised they don't have a single NYC to Asia flight. I would hope that when the JV gets approved, DL takes over one of KE's JFK-ICN flights so there is a direct Delta option. Relying solely on China Eastern and Korean Air without operating its own metal to Asia does not cut it if one's strategy is to win NYC.
 
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bluefltspecial
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:26 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
Similar to the United Airlines Network Thread I think it would be good to have one about DL.
Between SEA, BOS, future high level capacity allocation among hubs, fleet deployment present and future, DL's upgauging strategy, and its international alliances, there is PLENTY to discuss.

To start out:
What do you think about ATL-SYD, ATL-BOI, DTW-HKG, MSP-COS, LAX-ORD, LAX-IAH, and SEA-KIX as future possibilities?
How will DL's CRJ200s be allocated amongst hubs as the fleet continues to draw down? Which cities will lose service or see major changes from their reduction?
What is DL doing at CVG, splitting connecting flows with DTW, BOS, spitting with NYC, and RDU, splitting with ATL?
What are Delta's plans at AUS? A focus city, or simply connecting the dots from other growing focus city operations?
Is DL winning the War for Seattle?

Bring it on...


IIRC SEA-KIX was operated for a few years after the NW merger, it was reduced to a B763 and then canceled. I'm a firm believer that with Delta's operation in SEA, we should see a resumption of KIX and also a possible flight to NGO.

More interestingly, to me at least, would be connecting FUK with the US mainland, as the only flight they have currently is to HNL, aside from Asia, I believe FUK only has Finnair to HEL which is seasonal. There are about 5 million people in that area, if the connections are there for business I can see that being a winning situation.

As for ATL-SYD, if they have a bird with the legs to do it, sure.

DTW-HKG, this was tried and did not do well, however, the economic climate has changed, as DL has more aircraft with the range, it's certainly possible. There are a number of regional markets that were cut from DTW over the years, if Delta restores those smaller markets, even with once a day service to meet Asia/Europe connection, I can see DTW increasing it's traffic and becoming even more important.

MSP-COS, Delta is not big in COS, and as anyone would point out COS is just down the road from DEN where traffic is strong, I don't know if that is a route that can be justifed.

LAX-ORD, it goes without saying this market is crowded. It is however a very important business market, if Delta is serious about LAX then they will likely have to add that. For the mean time, until LAX construction is finished, I don't think we'll see many adds in the LAX market without it canabilizing another flight/market. Delta has been crafty to upgrauge a route like SMF and then reduce the frequency, however I think the SMF-LAX is/has gone back to all regional

LAX-IAH is a dominated market, however you have lowcost airlines operating on the route along with United, it's crowded, and unlikely.

There are a few glaring holes in Delta's network, one that I thought would always work well was RIC-SLC, where DL has a large customer base, however United with their smaller operation jumped into the RIC-DEN flight (and is now/going) double daily.

I'd like to see a resumption of the LAX-PHL flight as well as a SEA-PHL where there is no competition. SEA-DFW is another market they will need to add at some point, and with the oil industry doing ok, we could even see a SEA-IAH flight as well. Delta seems to be content in growing again in BOS so I wouldn't be surprised to see some larger cities connected again to Boston.

As for MCO, it's entirely possible we could see that airport used as a relief/Southern gateway for Latamerican connections. There have been quite a new number of flights in that direction added by other carriers proving there is a market there.

Lastly, Delta touts JFK as it's "Gateway to the World" and while there are flights to Africa, Europe, and South America, there are no flights to Asia, India, or the Middle East. While they have partner airlines, those are some glaring holes if Delta wants to have JFK as their "Gateway to the World" it should be considered to operate there with their own metal, or at least have their partner airlines all in the same terminal, but that's just my .02
Save a horse, ride a Fly-boy....
 
DeSpringbokke
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:03 pm

In regards to SEA-KIX, once the IAF expansion is complete, this route would probably be re-considered, especially if the Japanese economy continues at the same pace it has for the last three quarters. The flight was going to be upgauged from a 767-300ER to a A330-300 but the Yen devaluation killed the flight. At the time, there was very little connecting traffic at SEA and the flight was able to rely mostly on local demand, which is stronger than one would think. If and when it resumes, the A330-900 NEO would be the ideal aircraft for capacity and better fuel burn than the 767/A330 CEO. Delta has already said the A330-900 NEO will fly West Coast-Asia and SEA is the perfect hub for the aircraft.

DTW-HKG failed because it was launched at a historically bad time for HKG traffic, fuel was higher than it is today, and Delta could not sell the front of the cabin all too well. Fast forward to today where HKG is humming along, in addition to the DTW economy, fuel is still much lower than 2011-2012, and Delta is reconfiguring the 77L fleet into a much more favourable configuration. The 45J/224Y configuration was not economical whereas the high density 28J/48W/220Y configuration would fit to a route like DTW-HKG. Alternatively, Delta could use the A350-900 although Delta is keeping those on 13 to 15 hour flights, not the 15 plus such as LAX-SYD, ATL-PVG. Once the last four A350-900s are delivered, combined with the completion of the 777 refit, Delta is probably going to start one maybe two more long haul routes. Thinking LAX-MEL or a resumption of DTW-HKG are the likeliest. Once the KE-DL JV goes into effect, Delta will likely start MSP-ICN using the A330-200 at a minimum. Definitely a possibility KE-DL shuffle flights where KE could start BOS-ICN while Delta takes over a JFK-ICN or even LAX-ICN. In fact I'd say its more likely than not we'll see more Delta metal on flights to ICN.
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:06 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
SumChristianus wrote:
Similar to the United Airlines Network Thread I think it would be good to have one about DL.
Between SEA, BOS, future high level capacity allocation among hubs, fleet deployment present and future, DL's upgauging strategy, and its international alliances, there is PLENTY to discuss.


Reading the Q4 earnings release, a big thing they are working on is fleet complexity in outlying network cities, notably non-hub stations. DL is working to reduce the number of fleets that visit out-stations each day. Which will be a big help for maintenance. Plus all of the MD88s will be based in ATL as well...

SumChristianus wrote:
What are Delta's plans at AUS? A focus city, or simply connecting the dots from other growing focus city operations?


Possibly either one, MCO-AUS has to at the least be on DLs radar....


I know AUS will see AUS-CVG as a CR9, but aren't they standardizing AUS operations primarily on the A320 series?
 
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24Whiskey
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:27 pm

Yes. I forgot the exact term but from what I understand they’re building a maintenance facility dedicated to Airbus aircraft.

The only primarily RJ routes are RDU and CVG. DTW and MSP get inter-holiday/low season CR9/E75 downgauges.
 
FSDan
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:51 pm

Here are my thoughts:
ATL-SYD: I don't see this as likely, given that it's a really long flight, there isn't a big local market, and ATL isn't geographically suited to connections to Oceania.
ATL-BOI: This has been tried before - I believe it was summer seasonal, and maybe just on weekends. I could see this working, particularly if DL ends up with a CS100 base in ATL.
DTW-HKG: Also has been tried before, and could be resumed if the conditions that originally caused the route to be marginal have changed.
MSP-COS: NW flew this route for a long time (generally with an A320). This could be a good re-add for the MSP hub, likely on a CR9 or E75.
LAX-ORD: I think this is a market DL would like to get into, but there are gate constraints on both ends. Sooner or later, I think we'll see this.
LAX-IAH: I'm definitely not as sure about this as I am about LAX-ORD. DL's way weaker in Houston than they are in Chicago.
SEA-KIX: I would like to see this one come back. KIX really doesn't have many connections to the U.S. mainland, despite being a huge city with some very big companies based there.
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DiamondFlyer
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:58 pm

I think you'll see the CR2's (and the CR7 to a lesser extent) confined to the "fortress hubs" where Delta has no real competition (MSP/DTW/ATL), while the RJ flying in cities with competition is put on CR9/175 as much as possible, and then I suppose the 175SC/170 on the smaller high value markets.
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flymco753
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:31 pm

Lots of positive comments about MCO, I'd like to add a few more seasonal RJ possibilities to that, how about we throw in MCO-GRB, TVC, and ALB as weekend RJ prospects? I'd like to see some RJ routes go daily in the winter like GRR, CLE, CMH, PIT, MKE, DCA, STL, MCI, etc.

How about DTW-ICT? Short stage length so a perfect fit for a CR7, twice daily could cater to O&D and connections to Europe or the Northeast.
Resort and other ground transportation options are on level 1.
 
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N717TW
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:10 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
I think you'll see the CR2's (and the CR7 to a lesser extent) confined to the "fortress hubs" where Delta has no real competition (MSP/DTW/ATL), while the RJ flying in cities with competition is put on CR9/175 as much as possible, and then I suppose the 175SC/170 on the smaller high value markets.


the CRJ200 flying really appears to be falling and appears to be limited to truly regional flying--essentially places that would only have gotten props before the 90s. DL just sent out an email to BOS flyers that BOS-BUF will become CR9. They went on to say that EVERY flight from BOS will have first class. So at least for back half of 2018 and probably into 2019, there won't be any CRJ flying from Boston. There are still a few CRJ routes from RDU (PHL, BWI) and wonder how long those will stick around for.

DL needs to trim expenses per its promise to investors (WSJ article this week talked about it again)...so look to see single aircraft types on routes to smaller spokes and expect to see smaller fleets (e.g. M88 and M90) focused into single hubs. Finally, I expect to see larger jets through ATL and even more connecting throughput in ATL as a way to make the marginal cost of flying even lower.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:11 pm

FSDan wrote:
Here are my thoughts:
ATL-SYD: I don't see this as likely, given that it's a really long flight, there isn't a big local market, and ATL isn't geographically suited to connections to Oceania.
ATL-BOI: This has been tried before - I believe it was summer seasonal, and maybe just on weekends. I could see this working, particularly if DL ends up with a CS100 base in ATL.
DTW-HKG: Also has been tried before, and could be resumed if the conditions that originally caused the route to be marginal have changed.
MSP-COS: NW flew this route for a long time (generally with an A320). This could be a good re-add for the MSP hub, likely on a CR9 or E75.
LAX-ORD: I think this is a market DL would like to get into, but there are gate constraints on both ends. Sooner or later, I think we'll see this.
LAX-IAH: I'm definitely not as sure about this as I am about LAX-ORD. DL's way weaker in Houston than they are in Chicago.
SEA-KIX: I would like to see this one come back. KIX really doesn't have many connections to the U.S. mainland, despite being a huge city with some very big companies based there.


Agree on all of the above. One thing I wonder is whether the DL-KE JV will actually enable KIX/FUK/NGO flights to SEA/LAX, etc. because KE is pretty strong in Japan.
 
FA9295
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:26 pm

ShinyAndChrome wrote:
Speaking at a personal level, SEA-KIX would be really cool. Givre how inbound tourism to Japan has grown in the past years, it might be feasible seasonally with a 767 or A330. That said, KIX has historically struggled to sustain longhaul routes and with KE already operating a strong franchise in secondary Japanese markets, I could see why it wouldn’t happen.


Wouldn't be surprised to see that route at all in the near future... :smile:
 
FA9295
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:28 pm

There's always the possibility of DL adding PDX-CDG in the near future. This would probably be a 3x or 4x weekly summer seasonal route with the Boeing 767-300ER.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:38 pm

FA9295 wrote:
There's always the possibility of DL adding PDX-CDG in the near future. This would probably be a 3x or 4x weekly summer seasonal route with the Boeing 767-300ER.
I could see DL jumping on MCO-CDG before PDX tbh.
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afcjets
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:53 pm

SkyTeam is the only alliance without a flight from CLT to Europe. AA flies CLT-CDG but not CLT-AMS. I still think CDG would be more likely. The first phase of Concourse A North in CLT is scheduled to open in May.
 
Capn
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:03 pm

I really think DL. will enter into any market that is needed to support a hub or focus city if business travel warrants it. This is not a slam on any of its competitors, but it is really running a great operation and the other airlines have yet to catch up. That is how they earn a 117 % premium in fares charged.
The only thing holding them back is the real lack of gates at most of the cities mentioned in above threads e.g. AUS BOS ORD LAX RDU SEA SLC DAL DFW.
The fact that they manage to add a few new flts. at a time without junking there ops at these cities is really a tribute to Network Planning.
Unfortunately its going to take awhile.
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CLTflier
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:28 pm

afcjets wrote:
SkyTeam is the only alliance without a flight from CLT to Europe. AA flies CLT-CDG but not CLT-AMS. I still think CDG would be more likely. The first phase of Concourse A North in CLT is scheduled to open in May.


AA would go ballistic if Delta launched CLT-CDG
 
FSDan
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:32 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Lots of positive comments about MCO, I'd like to add a few more seasonal RJ possibilities to that, how about we throw in MCO-GRB, TVC, and ALB as weekend RJ prospects? I'd like to see some RJ routes go daily in the winter like GRR, CLE, CMH, PIT, MKE, DCA, STL, MCI, etc.


I'm not sure I can see DL starting routes from any of GRB, TVC, or ALB to MCO. I would hope for a winter Saturday MSN-MCO before any of those (it's a larger market than GRB or TVC, and DL has a much stronger presence at MSN than at ALB).

As far as existing weekend routes going daily, I could see that with MKE, GRR, and CMH, and maybe PIT or MCI. I don't see CLE or STL going daily as DL isn't quite as strong in those markets, and I'd be very surprised to see DCA go daily since that would tie up a valuable weekday slot that would be better used for a business destination.
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FSDan
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:38 pm

CLTflier wrote:
afcjets wrote:
SkyTeam is the only alliance without a flight from CLT to Europe. AA flies CLT-CDG but not CLT-AMS. I still think CDG would be more likely. The first phase of Concourse A North in CLT is scheduled to open in May.


AA would go ballistic if Delta launched CLT-CDG


In response, maybe they'd even go as far as to fly the route year round! :wink2:

Joking aside, I would be surprised if DL jumped into the TATL market from CLT. It's very close to ATL, and DL's not trying to be the 1st choice for business travelers at CLT (unlike at RDU). There probably isn't a huge local market from CLT to either CDG (which is summer seasonal for AA) or AMS (which AA hasn't bothered to serve at all), and connections to most major cities in Europe can be routed over ATL or JFK.
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deltal1011man
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:49 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
Similar to the United Airlines Network Thread I think it would be good to have one about DL.
Between SEA, BOS, future high level capacity allocation among hubs, fleet deployment present and future, DL's upgauging strategy, and its international alliances, there is PLENTY to discuss.

To start out:
What do you think about ATL-SYD, ATL-BOI, DTW-HKG, MSP-COS, LAX-ORD, LAX-IAH, and SEA-KIX as future possibilities?
How will DL's CRJ200s be allocated amongst hubs as the fleet continues to draw down? Which cities will lose service or see major changes from their reduction?
What is DL doing at CVG, splitting connecting flows with DTW, BOS, spitting with NYC, and RDU, splitting with ATL?
What are Delta's plans at AUS? A focus city, or simply connecting the dots from other growing focus city operations?
Is DL winning the War for Seattle?

Bring it on...

ATL-SYD isn't happening. Nothing has the range.
ATL-BOI would have to be a CS route

I believe DTW-HKG is going to come back. I'm fairly sure it will be the next HKG route Delta adds. LAX also makes sense.

MSP-COS is a big missing piece for the MSP hub, IMO.

LAX-IAH/ORD as well as LAX-RNO/OKC/PHL/ELP would all be very logical adds.

SEA-KIX/NGO/TPE all make some level of sense. The issue here is the lack of appropriate aircraft. The lack of 787 is hurting. Even SEA-SYD with a 787 makes sense in the DL/VA JV.
 
Buffalomatt1027
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:17 pm

jubguy3 wrote:
SLC is Delta's fastest growing O/D market with a 7.8 percent growth this year and a 0.58 percent growth in connections. Delta is choosing to move capacity over to other hubs, especially RJ flying, because the terminal redevelopment program is impacting gate capacity. The south arm of the E concourse has been torn down and the north end will be torn down before the completion of the TRP, in favor of hardstand operations. Connections, especially CRJ flying will decrease until 2020 when the new airport's phase one opens, so much of what I think is reasonable may be delayed until then. DL and SLCDA came to an agreement to reduce connecting capacity so that the E concourse could be demolished, making construction operations easier.

From SLC, the largest unserved markets (the largest being PIT with 65k O/D pax per year) are Pittsburgh, Columbus, Lihue, Cleveland, and Buffalo. I think all of those are feasible, except for say Buffalo which would probably do better with additional connecting capacity through Detroit.

I also want to see the following in SLC: Williston, Bismark, El Paso, Monterrey, Wichita, Edmonton, Saksatoon, Victoria, Fairbanks, along with Moab and the remaining ski airports in Colorado. The issue here is that most of these flights would likely be smaller-than-A319 flights and the airport does not have that sort of capacity at the moment. Expect 2020 and 2021 to mark a major increase in capacity in SLC.

The SLCDA is currently working with Delta to understand the feasibility of a flight to Seoul because China has consistently been SLC's fastest growing market, a joint venture with KE is being reviewed (must be approved by South Korean transport ministry) and a flight to Shanghai would be difficult to get approved because of the aviation agreements between China and the United States. However, SLC has enough passengers with a final destination in Asia served by KE to support the flight. SLC has a high proportion of business pax and frequent fliers and the SLCDA is confident that it could support a TPAC flight. I would expect it to be a strategic add in SLC's network once the joint venture is approved.



Delta should expand in Buffalo at BNIA. Jetblue, southwest, Frontier all have taken the leap of faith with Canadians / current local market and its been working out great! MANY airline people didnt think that BUF - LA would succeed as a non hub route and it has produced above and beyond expectations!

Maybe SLC wouldnt be a perfect match but Delta has other destinations / routes they could expand on.
 
afcjets
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:23 pm

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:

Delta should expand in Buffalo at BNIA. Jetblue, southwest, Frontier all have taken the leap of faith with Canadians / current local market and its been working out great! MANY airline people didnt think that BUF - LA would succeed as a non hub route and it has produced above and beyond expectations!


Didn't AA fly DC10s BUF-LAX nonstop in the 1970s?
 
winginit
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:32 pm

dmorbust wrote:
Ever since DL nixed JFK-NRT, I am really surprised they don't have a single NYC to Asia flight. I would hope that when the JV gets approved, DL takes over one of KE's JFK-ICN flights so there is a direct Delta option. Relying solely on China Eastern and Korean Air without operating its own metal to Asia does not cut it if one's strategy is to win NYC.


In what ways has Delta not already won NYC? Also, 'does not cut it' according to who? Certainly not shareholders. Those New York to Asia nonstops are bloodbaths for profitability, so it seems to me that it would actually be prudent to continue having JV metal fly those versus DL metal that can be better deployed elsewhere.
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:17 pm

deltal1011man wrote:
ATL-SYD isn't happening. Nothing has the range.
ATL-BOI would have to be a CS route

I believe DTW-HKG is going to come back. I'm fairly sure it will be the next HKG route Delta adds. LAX also makes sense.

MSP-COS is a big missing piece for the MSP hub, IMO.

LAX-IAH/ORD as well as LAX-RNO/OKC/PHL/ELP would all be very logical adds.

SEA-KIX/NGO/TPE all make some level of sense. The issue here is the lack of appropriate aircraft. The lack of 787 is hurting. Even SEA-SYD with a 787 makes sense in the DL/VA JV.


MSP-COS, used to be served, I saw it on an old route map from around the time of the NWA merger.

ATL-SYD would be somewhat similiar to UA IAH-SYD in network scope. Its 8,069 NM and "could" probably be flown on the 77L or A359.
I'm not sure about the economics, though, and Australia doesn't seem that strategically imprtant to DL. Its about 600 miles further than IAH from SYD. Its also about as long as EWR-SIN. After looking more into the distance, I'll say "maybe, maybe", but only after 2025. It would proabably require the A350-900ULR.

LAX-ORD is DL's biggest apparent network hole at the moment in terms of absence from a stategic domestic market.
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:18 pm

ATL-TLV would also seem a logical resumption.
 
deltal1011man
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:27 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
deltal1011man wrote:
ATL-SYD isn't happening. Nothing has the range.
ATL-BOI would have to be a CS route

I believe DTW-HKG is going to come back. I'm fairly sure it will be the next HKG route Delta adds. LAX also makes sense.

MSP-COS is a big missing piece for the MSP hub, IMO.

LAX-IAH/ORD as well as LAX-RNO/OKC/PHL/ELP would all be very logical adds.

SEA-KIX/NGO/TPE all make some level of sense. The issue here is the lack of appropriate aircraft. The lack of 787 is hurting. Even SEA-SYD with a 787 makes sense in the DL/VA JV.


MSP-COS, used to be served, I saw it on an old route map from around the time of the NWA merger.

ATL-SYD would be somewhat similiar to UA IAH-SYD in network scope.
Its 8,069 NM and "could" probably be flown on the 77L or A359.
I'm not sure about the economics, though, and Australia doesn't seem that strategically imprtant to DL. Its about 600 miles further than IAH from SYD. Its also about as long as EWR-SIN. After looking more into the distance, I'll say "maybe, maybe", but only after 2025. It would proabably require the A350-900ULR.

LAX-ORD is DL's biggest apparent network hole at the moment in terms of absence from a stategic domestic market.


Not really. IAH/DFW is not super out of the way for a large part of the east like Atlanta is.
Just about every major market in the east has to fly out of the way to connect here.

If Delta adds another route to SYD it will be SEA, IMO. I personally expect Delta to fly things like more LAX-SYD, LAX-MEL/BNA and even AKL over anything else though.
SumChristianus wrote:
ATL-TLV would also seem a logical resumption.

I hope it comes back but i would expect Delta to add more frequency to JFK if they want to grow the TLV market.
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:06 pm

Your right, LAX is probably the best gateway for DL to Australia. There probably isn't much demand Australia-East Coast U.S.

What do you think about the chances of ATL-OGG, ATL-India, or ATL-KEF?
 
winginit
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:29 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
What do you think about the chances of ATL-OGG, ATL-India, or ATL-KEF?


You won't see any of the US3 add nonstop capacity to India while they're in this spat with the ME3. A huge crux of their plea to the government has been that subsidized ME3 carriers and making it such that AA, DL, and UA can't compete to India, and to launch capacity into the marketplace would completely undermine that argument.
 
deltal1011man
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:50 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
Your right, LAX is probably the best gateway for DL to Australia. There probably isn't much demand Australia-East Coast U.S.

What do you think about the chances of ATL-OGG, ATL-India, or ATL-KEF?

OGG wont happen. Frequency will be added over LAX/SEA/SLC.
India is slightly possible but I still believe when Delta goes back to India it will be via JFK not ATL.

ATL-KEF is only a matter of time, IMO.


For now the majority of growth is going to be domestic. Rounding out the growing hubs (LAX/SEA/BOS) and focus cities (RDU/LAS and AUS) as well as capacity additions (but not necessarily destinations) from the core markets (ATL/MSP/DTW/SLC). NYC will also see some solid growth with the CS.



Internationally I don't see a ton of non-safe growth from Delta. Till they get 787s they don't really have the right plane to try a lot of routes that are longer distances.
 
FSDan
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:57 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
There probably isn't much demand Australia-East Coast U.S.


Outside of NYC (and possibly WAS), no. ATL would have an advantageous location for connecting passengers from Australia to Florida, but there's really no reason to travel that far for a beach vacation when there are great options closer to home...

SumChristianus wrote:
What do you think about the chances of ATL-OGG, ATL-India, or ATL-KEF?


ATL-OGG: not out of the question, but I'd expect a year-round daily SLC-OGG first.
ATL-India: not likely. If DL were to get back into the U.S.-India market nonstop, it would make more sense to do so from JFK. There's currently no nonstop JFK-BOM...
ATL-KEF: doubtful unless FI or WW start it and DL decides to retaliate. There's plenty of connectivity to Iceland on DL via MSP and JFK.
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Shields
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:36 pm

If the AUS buildup is for real, I would expect to see DL add AUS-BNA. BNA has gotten some love lately (SEA; RDU; 3rd daily to BOS). AUS-BNA is currently served only by WN.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:37 pm

deltal1011man wrote:
SumChristianus wrote:
Your right, LAX is probably the best gateway for DL to Australia. There probably isn't much demand Australia-East Coast U.S.

What do you think about the chances of ATL-OGG, ATL-India, or ATL-KEF?

OGG wont happen. Frequency will be added over LAX/SEA/SLC.
India is slightly possible but I still believe when Delta goes back to India it will be via JFK not ATL.

ATL-KEF is only a matter of time, IMO.


For now the majority of growth is going to be domestic. Rounding out the growing hubs (LAX/SEA/BOS) and focus cities (RDU/LAS and AUS) as well as capacity additions (but not necessarily destinations) from the core markets (ATL/MSP/DTW/SLC). NYC will also see some solid growth with the CS.



Internationally I don't see a ton of non-safe growth from Delta. Till they get 787s they don't really have the right plane to try a lot of routes that are longer distances.


Will the A330neo/A350 combo not do it for DL? Personally, I am hoping for 787s; but is it even on the table now?
 
Themotionman
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:42 pm

deltal1011man wrote:
SumChristianus wrote:


Internationally I don't see a ton of non-safe growth from Delta. Till they get 787s they don't really have the right plane to try a lot of routes that are longer distances.


????
I miss Northwest :frown: :indifferent:
 
afcjets
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:50 pm

FSDan wrote:

ATL-OGG: not out of the question, but I'd expect a year-round daily SLC-OGG first.


The longest runway at OGG is only 6995 feet, is that long enough? There are plans to lengthen it to 8500 in the future though.
 
winginit
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:13 pm

deltal1011man wrote:
Internationally I don't see a ton of non-safe growth from Delta. Till they get 787s they don't really have the right plane to try a lot of routes that are longer distances.


I don't disagree with your point about what I assume is higher risk growth (not sure if non-safe is the right word) in the form of brand new spokes, etc., but it won't be on account of aircraft range given the 25 A350s that are coming in between now and 2022.

I do think we'll see at least one if not two additional nonstops between the US and ICN assuming the JV is approved exit-Asia. LAX is an obvious candidate and SEA not unreasonable.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:35 pm

afcjets wrote:
FSDan wrote:

ATL-OGG: not out of the question, but I'd expect a year-round daily SLC-OGG first.


The longest runway at OGG is only 6995 feet, is that long enough? There are plans to lengthen it to 8500 in the future though.


DL flew ATL-OGG in the past with a 767-300.

There are several other routes mentioned in this thread that DL has done on the past.

ATL-BOI (not just summer)
SEA-KIX (NW did it, then DL tried it)
SLC-CLE (with an MD-90)
 
FSDan
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:51 pm

afcjets wrote:
FSDan wrote:

ATL-OGG: not out of the question, but I'd expect a year-round daily SLC-OGG first.


The longest runway at OGG is only 6995 feet, is that long enough? There are plans to lengthen it to 8500 in the future though.


UA flies a 777-200 on OGG-ORD, so DL using a 767-300ER on OGG-ATL doesn't seem like too much of a stretch... OGG-ATL is less than 300 miles further than OGG-ORD, and a 763 would weigh a heck of a lot less than a 772.
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deltal1011man
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:04 pm

FSDan wrote:
SumChristianus wrote:
There probably isn't much demand Australia-East Coast U.S.


Outside of NYC (and possibly WAS), no. ATL would have an advantageous location for connecting passengers from Australia to Florida, but there's really no reason to travel that far for a beach vacation when there are great options closer to home...

SumChristianus wrote:
What do you think about the chances of ATL-OGG, ATL-India, or ATL-KEF?


ATL-OGG: not out of the question, but I'd expect a year-round daily SLC-OGG first.
ATL-India: not likely. If DL were to get back into the U.S.-India market nonstop, it would make more sense to do so from JFK. There's currently no nonstop JFK-BOM...
ATL-KEF: doubtful unless FI or WW start it and DL decides to retaliate. There's plenty of connectivity to Iceland on DL via MSP and JFK.

FWIW this is why I expect Delta will start ATL-KEF.
winginit wrote:
deltal1011man wrote:
Internationally I don't see a ton of non-safe growth from Delta. Till they get 787s they don't really have the right plane to try a lot of routes that are longer distances.


I don't disagree with your point about what I assume is higher risk growth (not sure if non-safe is the right word) in the form of brand new spokes, etc., but it won't be on account of aircraft range given the 25 A350s that are coming in between now and 2022.

I do think we'll see at least one if not two additional nonstops between the US and ICN assuming the JV is approved exit-Asia. LAX is an obvious candidate and SEA not unreasonable.

Lower risk, conservative etc. etc.

FWIW Delta already has a SEA-ICN flight.

Themotionman wrote:
deltal1011man wrote:
SumChristianus wrote:


Internationally I don't see a ton of non-safe growth from Delta. Till they get 787s they don't really have the right plane to try a lot of routes that are longer distances.


????

not sure how to clear that up for you?

jbs2886 wrote:
deltal1011man wrote:
SumChristianus wrote:
Your right, LAX is probably the best gateway for DL to Australia. There probably isn't much demand Australia-East Coast U.S.

What do you think about the chances of ATL-OGG, ATL-India, or ATL-KEF?

OGG wont happen. Frequency will be added over LAX/SEA/SLC.
India is slightly possible but I still believe when Delta goes back to India it will be via JFK not ATL.

ATL-KEF is only a matter of time, IMO.


For now the majority of growth is going to be domestic. Rounding out the growing hubs (LAX/SEA/BOS) and focus cities (RDU/LAS and AUS) as well as capacity additions (but not necessarily destinations) from the core markets (ATL/MSP/DTW/SLC). NYC will also see some solid growth with the CS.



Internationally I don't see a ton of non-safe growth from Delta. Till they get 787s they don't really have the right plane to try a lot of routes that are longer distances.


Will the A330neo/A350 combo not do it for DL? Personally, I am hoping for 787s; but is it even on the table now?

Every aircraft is always on the table for Delta. Boeing and either Rolls and GE just has to make a deal. This anet wet dream of converting Delta to all Airbus just simply isn't going to happen.
 
dmorbust
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:20 pm

winginit wrote:
dmorbust wrote:
Ever since DL nixed JFK-NRT, I am really surprised they don't have a single NYC to Asia flight. I would hope that when the JV gets approved, DL takes over one of KE's JFK-ICN flights so there is a direct Delta option. Relying solely on China Eastern and Korean Air without operating its own metal to Asia does not cut it if one's strategy is to win NYC.


In what ways has Delta not already won NYC? Also, 'does not cut it' according to who? Certainly not shareholders. Those New York to Asia nonstops are bloodbaths for profitability, so it seems to me that it would actually be prudent to continue having JV metal fly those versus DL metal that can be better deployed elsewhere.


Delta has not already won NYC according to revenue premiums vs competitors. I believe both Jetblue and United command a premium over Delta in the NYC market according to the data.
The "does not cut it" statement is according to corporates and elites - being forced to fly China Eastern to go direct to China in a 3-4-3 economy layout 777 with no premium economy or economy comfort options and no easy way to select your seat is not ideal. I don't know many who eagerly choose either this codeshare option or connecting somewhere else with Delta for these Asia flights. Same goes for Korean Air, although their cabin layouts and service are admittedly much more passenger friendly. Bottom line is that I believe DL would perform better overall in NYC with at least one Asia route to offer corporates and elites, even if that route is a marginal performer on its own.
 
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DDR
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:01 am

deltal1011man wrote:
FSDan wrote:
SumChristianus wrote:
There probably isn't much demand Australia-East Coast U.S.



This anet wet dream of converting Delta to all Airbus just simply isn't going to happen.


Agreed. DL is simply too large to rely on one aircraft manufacturer. And before anyone brings up WN and how they only fly Boeing aircraft, DL has a much more different route structure. Hell, even the big European airlines fly both Boeing and Airbus.
 
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cvgComair
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Re: Delta Air Lines Network Thread 2018

Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:09 am

I think we are going to see some adds at CVG this year. The CVG station manager tweeted out to "expect more great news from Delta in 2018" in regards to CVG. Also, a spokesperson for DL said, "The addition of Austin later in 2018 is the next evolution in our approach to serve the most popular destinations from CVG." It certainly sounds like DL has new routes and capacity increases coming for CVG this year...

They have already announced CVG-AUS, plus added frequency/capacity on CVG-ATL/DTW/RDU/STL/BWI/LAX/SEA/DEN. I think CVG-MSY/SAN/JAX could be very strong adds. Apparently, CVG and MEM are working with DL to bring back CVG-MEM: https://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/new ... ntion.html.
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