As per link below (in Spanish only), Avianca will take delivery of two used A330-330, thus becoming the first latin american airline to ever operate the type

http://www.transponder1200.com/avianca- ... noamerica/

The 2 planes will become N803AV and N804AV. They were previously operated by Transasia. (s/n 1357 and s/n 1378). The deal also includes 2 used a321)

Once the A330-300 join the fleet, 2 A330-200 will be transferred to AV Brazil. The goal is to free 787 from intra-America routes so new European services can be added

Related to this article: https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... 330-fleets

Avianca is straight-up buying these frames from the creditors for TransAsia Airways. However, as they have not flown in more than a year, the four planes will need some work before the sale is complete. The two A321s being acquired by Avianca are MSN 6009 (to be N805AV, formerly B-22608) and MSN 6294 (to be N810AV, formerly B-22610); those were the only A321-200s that TransAsia had owned; the rest had been owned by lessors which had long reclaimed the frames and placed them with other airlines.

The planes will all be registered to a US special purpose vehicle with Avianca as the beneficiary of the trust, unless Avianca plans to sell these frames and lease them back. The price Avianca is paying for these planes is US$364 million for all four aircraft.

As for the A333s, are they 238t frames?

Any word on seat count or type? I hope they use the same J class seats as the 787s!

I know they fly the 787-8 within the Americas from Bogotá to New York, Los Angeles, Miami, Mexico City, Lima, Santiago, Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires. Also to some domestic destinations. So I suppose the A333 will operate those routes to free some 787 to increase Madrid and start Munich.
I´ve heard they are also getting the 787-9, so will the A333 be a temporary aircraft?

aemoreira1981 wrote:

As for the A333s, are they 238t frames?

I don't think A333 has the 238t variant (correct me if I'm wrong) but I believe these birds are/were the 235t versions

Michael

Mex87 wrote:

I know they fly the 787-8 within the Americas from Bogotá to New York, Los Angeles, Miami, Mexico City, Lima, Santiago, Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires. Also to some domestic destinations. So I suppose the A333 will operate those routes to free some 787 to increase Madrid and start Munich.
I´ve heard they are also getting the 787-9, so will the A333 be a temporary aircraft?

If I am not mistaken:

Los Angeles: 788
New York: A330
Miami: A319
Sao Paulo: A330
Buenos Aires: 788

WHY DOES aVIANCA FLY BOTH TYPES, a330 AND 787S, WHY NOT TO STANDARTIZE IN JUST ONE TYPE?

LPSHobby wrote:

WHY DOES aVIANCA FLY BOTH TYPES, a330 AND 787S, WHY NOT TO STANDARTIZE IN JUST ONE TYPE?

Shushhh..... Plenty of airlines operate both. This is not a big deal, new 787s are hard to get and used 787s don't exist. They already had A330s and this was obviously done to meet demand.

I hope they are in good condition. CI/AE purchased new build ATRs and turned down bidding for GEs ATRs as they weren't allowed to do detailed inspection before the auction!

Interesting. So could we expect that BOG-JFK, BOG-LAX, BOG-EZE, BOG-GRU and maybe some of the BOG-MIA and BOG-MEX rotations will be A332 and A333 routes in the future?

LPSHobby wrote:

WHY DOES aVIANCA FLY BOTH TYPES, a330 AND 787S, WHY NOT TO STANDARTIZE IN JUST ONE TYPE?

Ask American, Virgin Atlantic, KLM, Air France, Qatar, Etihad, Korean Air..... etc, etc. You may get your answer.... (all those airlines fly bot A330 and 787 type aircrafts)


PS; WHY DO YOU TYPE IN CAPS.... WHY NOT TO Standardize in lower case......

EddieDude wrote:

Interesting. So could we expect that BOG-JFK, BOG-LAX, BOG-EZE, BOG-GRU and maybe some of the BOG-MIA and BOG-MEX rotations will be A332 and A333 routes in the future?

If AV can get a daytime slot into JFK or EWR, it might make sense to do three A321 frequencies. I suspect the bigger planes because of limited slots. LAX will need to remain wide-body because it would be at the edge of the range of the A321ceo or A321neo if planning with SFO as the alternate. GRU and MEX are extremely slot-limited and will need to remain wide-body (I suspect that an A333 might show up on GRU or LAX). Not sure if there is a business case to keep MIA as wide-body unless belly cargo.

720B wrote:

LPSHobby wrote:

WHY DOES aVIANCA FLY BOTH TYPES, a330 AND 787S, WHY NOT TO STANDARTIZE IN JUST ONE TYPE?

Ask American, Virgin Atlantic, KLM, Air France, Qatar, Etihad, Korean Air..... etc, etc. You may get your answer.... (all those airlines fly bot A330 and 787 type aircrafts)


PS; WHY DO YOU TYPE IN CAPS.... WHY NOT TO Standardize in lower case......

Qantas, China Southern, China Eastern, Air China, China.................

Avianca Colombia is somewhat restricted on the Argentina routes on frequencies, due to an antiquated bilateral. The A333 will bring more capacity to the BOG-EZE route.

On my earlier post---the idea of adding a daytime frequency that arrives around noontime into New York would be to take passengers away from Copa, which has a daytime flight into JFK. The question is: where could those 787s be sent outside of the Americas? (Moving 238t A332s to Avianca Brasil would likely open up routes such as to LIS and MCO, with an outside shot at JNB. )The A333s are definitely intra-Americas frames, and I have to wonder if AV will look to acquire via lease ex-SQ A333s (many of the A332s being leased by AV are sale-leasebacks and could be reduced from the fleet when leases expire).

AV must be taking these because the price is right. AV doesn't need a 787 range for all its flights, since Colombia is in the middle of the Americas many cities where a large plane is needed are only 3 to 5 hours away. Bogota to Miami is perhaps the best example of this.

aemoreira1981 wrote:

If AV can get a daytime slot into JFK or EWR, it might make sense to do three A321 frequencies. I suspect the bigger planes because of limited slots.

I think Avianca couldn't operate A321s in the BOG-JFK route even if they wanted to.
Remember BOG sits at 8300 ft above sea level. A321s went out penalized for routes that weren't even half as long, like the former BOG-CCS which is less than 2 hours long. As per an Avianca pilot, the company usually blocked around 20 seats on the A321 for the BOG-CCS sector depending on the day; hence, all of the BOG-based A321s, even the recently delivered NEOs, are being used exclusively in heavy trunk domestic routes within Colombia, none of which is longer than 1.5 hours, except for Bogota-San Andres Island which is shy of 2 hours and is currently the longest flight ex-BOG that regularly sees the A321. From time to time some A321 gets thrown in on the LIM-BOG or SAL-BOG hub-to-hub flights, but they usually belong to the Peruvian/Central American divisions and are not regulars.

Avianca's red-eye flight on the BOG-JFK route has consistently been operated on a widebody aircraft for many many years. It's an extremely popular route which often goes out full of travelers with heavy luggage and cargo. I can see the widebody is absolutely justified in this route. The daytime flight to JFK which departs BOG in the early afternoon was initially started with an A319 (which is actually the only narrowbody on AV's fleet with the legs to do this route with full payload), and more recenlty was upgraded to an A330-200 as well.

Mex87 wrote:

I know they fly the 787-8 within the Americas from Bogotá to New York, Los Angeles, Miami, Mexico City, Lima, Santiago, Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires

Miami and Sao Paulo haven't seen the 787-8 for quite a while now. Both are mostly A330-200 territory. The rest of the cities do see de 787 regularly.

geoshina wrote:

Los Angeles: 788
New York: A330
Miami: A319
Sao Paulo: A330
Buenos Aires: 788

BOG-MIA on Avianca is currently at 3x daily. 1x daily A330-200 and 2x daily A320s.

geoshina wrote:

Mex87 wrote:

I know they fly the 787-8 within the Americas from Bogotá to New York, Los Angeles, Miami, Mexico City, Lima, Santiago, Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires. Also to some domestic destinations. So I suppose the A333 will operate those routes to free some 787 to increase Madrid and start Munich.
I´ve heard they are also getting the 787-9, so will the A333 be a temporary aircraft?

If I am not mistaken:

Los Angeles: 788
New York: A330
Miami: A319
Sao Paulo: A330
Buenos Aires: 788

Avianca uses A330s on the MIA-BOG/GRU/LIM routes and a mix of A319/A320/A321 equipment on the remainder of their MIA routes. Currently no AV 787s here.

LPSHobby wrote:

WHY DOES aVIANCA FLY BOTH TYPES, a330 AND 787S, WHY NOT TO STANDARTIZE IN JUST ONE TYPE?

There's obviously exceptions with the likes of EasyJet, Southwest & Ryanair but concentrating an entire airline operation around 1 plane type can be risky, especially when its something so new like the 787. So many airlines had 787 issues on EIS, and even now VS are on very limited 787 operations due to engine issues (taking 4 A330's to cover I might add ).

There are of course a host of other factors such as availability of delivery slots, pricing, fleet commonality that the 330 holds with their 320 series NB fleet etc etc

aemoreira1981 wrote:

As for the A333s, are they 238t frames?

GE operated them at 233K. Only used regional routes.

720B wrote:

As per link below (in Spanish only), Avianca will take delivery of two used A330-330, thus becoming the first latin american airline to ever operate the type

http://www.transponder1200.com/avianca- ... noamerica/

The 2 planes will become N803AV and N804AV. They were previously operated by Transasia. (s/n 1357 and s/n 1378). The deal also includes 2 used a321)

Once the A330-300 join the fleet, 2 A330-200 will be transferred to AV Brazil. The goal is to free 787 from intra-America routes so new European services can be added

My question is, although there will be a capacity increase, in reality there won't be more aircraft flying for AV Colombia. This said, the fleet shuffle to make 787s available will be interesting (my bet is they will replace the 787 on BOG-EZE, the A332 on BOG-JFK/MIA and that A332 replaces the 787 on BOG-LAX, and thus frees up one 787 for BOG-MUC).

As soon as the 789s arrive, my bet is they will be used on BOG/MDE/CLO-Spain (where AV is maxed out in frequencies) and BOG-LHR, freeing up more 788s to replace older A330s and fly new long haul routes.

trex8 wrote:

aemoreira1981 wrote:

As for the A333s, are they 238t frames?

GE operated them at 233K. Only used regional routes.

And that should be plenty, even factoring in BOG's height. These planes will be used in medium haul routes - with BOG-EZE being the longest one.

dcajet wrote:

trex8 wrote:

aemoreira1981 wrote:

As for the A333s, are they 238t frames?

GE operated them at 233K. Only used regional routes.

And that should be plenty, even factoring in BOG's height. These planes will be used in medium haul routes - with BOG-EZE being the longest one.

Isn't EZE all 787 with AV?

geoshina wrote:

dcajet wrote:

trex8 wrote:

GE operated them at 233K. Only used regional routes.

And that should be plenty, even factoring in BOG's height. These planes will be used in medium haul routes - with BOG-EZE being the longest one.

Isn't EZE all 787 with AV?

Currently. it is. AV is getting the A333 to free up the 787 fleet to focus on Europe for existing and future routes (MUC?). The A333 will complement the A332 on the intra-Americas network.

Avianca A333s N803AV and N804AV leaving TPE in ex-operator Transasia livery

https://www.facebook.com/TIAfans/posts/1598436926871148

Some are saying that Avianca will use these a333’s to replace the 788’s curently flying the BOG-LHR route as it is amongst the airlines most popular routes and the a333’s will be able to carry more people meanwhile their new 789 and a330 neos are delivered.

I don’t know how large this ac actually is, but does Avianca Brasil operate GIG/NYC non-stop at all ever? If not, does anyone think that would even happen?
If so would they do JFK or EWR for UA connections?

VC10er wrote:

I don’t know how large this ac actually is, but does Avianca Brasil operate GIG/NYC non-stop at all ever? If not, does anyone think that would even happen?
If so would they do JFK or EWR for UA connections?

Their agenda is to grow at GRU which is severely slot constraint.
Any intenational growth from O6 using wide bodies will happen from GRU.

At least the two A330-300s that AV acquired from GE's lenders were sold to German Operating Aircraft Leasing and leased back by AV.

VC10er wrote:

I don’t know how large this ac actually is, but does Avianca Brasil operate GIG/NYC non-stop at all ever? If not, does anyone think that would even happen?
If so would they do JFK or EWR for UA connections?

No, O6 does not operate GIG-JFK. GRU-JKF is a completely different story, as it has joined DL, AA and JJ operating the route non-stop. GRU has further connectivity to NYC via UA's non-stop to EWR on the 77E, but that flight will NOT participate in UA's to-be-announced joint-venture agreement with Avianca. Recall O6 is 100%-owned by Synergy Group, a private company entirely owned by the Efromovich brothers. Avianca Holdings SA, on the other hand, is a publicly-traded company with an NYSE ADR listing, a completely different setup compared to O6. Synergy Group owns 51.8% of all Avianca Holdings SA shares outstanding (NYSE: AVH), granting it effective corporate governance control.

Eventually, Synergy Group and AVH will reach an agreement to sell O6 to AVH, perhaps in a stock-for-stock deal granting Synergy Group additional equity in AVH. Of course, any corporate agreement would need to be reviewed by the AVH 'special committee' representing the financial interests of the company's minority shareholders. Synergy Group also owns 100% of Avianca Argentina (IATA: A0), but this carrier will not be sold to AVH for quite some time in the future, once it establishes its commercial viability in this quickly-liberalizing market.

UA will announce a far-reaching joint-venture agreement with AVH, which will serve as a template for Brazil and Argentina once O6 and A0 are sold.

It is NOT CLEAR what will happen with UA and Azul (IATA: AD) once O6 joins the AVH joint-venture agreement. Recall UA made a $100 million equity investment in AD three years, followed by HNA Group's $450 million investment later in the year. HNA is AD's single-largest shareholder and is currently undergoing a 'silent restructuring', opening rumors to whether they will sell their large investment in AD to some third party, likely Chinese.

That’s odd that UA’s future with Azul could be in question only because UA is promoting that partnership a lot in advertising etc...even though Azul is not in the Star group.
I have found that UA seems to prefer trying to route NYC area passengers through GRU to either GIG or SDU. The Santos Dumont arrival is very nice as it’s right downtown vs GIG.
UA used to promote EWR to Rio through IAH but that routing is now far further down the website options vs on top as it used to be.
I’d be very likely to fly Avianca non-stop to Rio if they had it. Clearly there isn’t the demand.
Yet, from Europe I see a Lufthansa 788 at GIG and of course TAP. I assume AF and BA still have GIG non-stops?

VC10er wrote:

That’s odd that UA’s future with Azul could be in question only because UA is promoting that partnership a lot in advertising etc...even though Azul is not in the Star group.
I have found that UA seems to prefer trying to route NYC area passengers through GRU to either GIG or SDU. The Santos Dumont arrival is very nice as it’s right downtown vs GIG.
UA used to promote EWR to Rio through IAH but that routing is now far further down the website options vs on top as it used to be.
I’d be very likely to fly Avianca non-stop to Rio if they had it. Clearly there isn’t the demand.
Yet, from Europe I see a Lufthansa 788 at GIG and of course TAP. I assume AF and BA still have GIG non-stops?

AF still operates AF442 daily (well, strikes permitting) on 77W. BA down-gauged their daily flight (BA249) from 744 to 788, but it's still there.

Overall, the focus in Brazil post-recession seems to be, as others mentioned, in GRU. The Brazilian Government announced earlier this week their intent to sell off public airport operator Infraero, however, and while this would likely not affect already-privatized GIG, the effects of such a move on SDU remain to be seen (though I'm not sure much expansion could happen there).

To me it makes quite a bit of sense to use the A333s in Americas routes in order to free up Dreamliners for Europe services. I suppose MIA (especially), EZE, JFK and from time to time GRU and MEX could get the A333. With the upcoming A319NEOs, the A332s freed from Europe services and the A333(s), AV will be in a good position to exploit its BOG hub as an alternative to CM's PTY hub for North America - South America connections.

720B wrote:

LPSHobby wrote:

WHY DOES aVIANCA FLY BOTH TYPES, a330 AND 787S, WHY NOT TO STANDARTIZE IN JUST ONE TYPE?

Ask American, Virgin Atlantic, KLM, Air France, Qatar, Etihad, Korean Air..... etc, etc. You may get your answer.... (all those airlines fly bot A330 and 787 type aircrafts)

True, however do you really want to compare the fleet size of those airlines with AV? The only one that comes close if VS.

Weren't the AV A332s a stopgap measure taken as a result of the Dreamliners' delivery delay?

N804AV has been painted at AUH and has arrived now in Colombia.

JC04 wrote:

Some are saying that Avianca will use these a333’s to replace the 788’s curently flying the BOG-LHR route as it is amongst the airlines most popular routes and the a333’s will be able to carry more people meanwhile their new 789 and a330 neos are delivered.

LHR will continue to see AV's 787s. The relatively new A333s will stay in the Americas and will serve routes like CTG, EZE, GRU, LAX, and LIM

asuflyer wrote:

N804AV has been painted at AUH and has arrived now in Colombia.

Wow, nice to see an A333 in Avianca colors but they could have painted the airline titles larger. It looks small on this A333. All the best to Avianca and their A333's.

A388

When will the first AV A333 go into service? I'm booked on AV87 BOG-EZE in 3 weeks, wondering if I'll see the usual B788 or this A333...

The second, and last, A333 for AV was delivered on May 20th after having its c-check and livery change at Etihad's MRO. Both A333s are now at AV's own MRO in MDE where they waiting for certification from the Aerocivil and an interior change.

Fun fact: Both A333s are the only aircraft on AV's fleet to have a microwave, a wine cooler, and a bread oven.
Pics and report: https://www.aviacol.net/industria-aeron ... ianca.html (in Spanish)

CharlieTheFlyer wrote:

When will the first AV A333 go into service? I'm booked on AV87 BOG-EZE in 3 weeks, wondering if I'll see the usual B788 or this A333...

Service will begin on June 1st on the BOG-JFK-BOG route and July 1st on the BOG-PUJ-BOG route. EZE won't be seeing the A333s until later.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... into-2h18/

Bite me if we won't see it running GRU-MIA and JFK in a near future...

ojjunior wrote:

Bite me if we won't see it running GRU-MIA and JFK in a near future...

These 2 A333 belong to and are operated by Avianca Colombia. Why would they operate for AV Brazil? Particularly when its AV that needs the capacity, not the other way 'round.

ojjunior wrote:

Bite me if we won't see it running GRU-MIA and JFK in a near future...

Not in the near future, however it wouldn't surprise me to see Avianca transferring them to AV Brazil or AV Peru after the B789s arrive.