From June 8, 2018, Delta will start Seattle – Dulles route with Boeing 737-800 aircraft. Cannot find a press release for this yet, but a dummy booking showed this here:

https://www.google.com/flights/#search; ... 9;s=0;so=t

Only first class is available for booking as of now. United operates this route three times a day and Alaska operates this route once a day.

Flight details:

SEA-IAD: 10:00 PM – 6:15 AM (+1) (Delta flight 1126)
IAD-SEA: 7:05 AM – 9:55 AM (Delta flight 1219)

Going to take business away from United.

dc10lover wrote:

Going to take business away from United.

I feel like it eats away more at the SeaTac POS, so Alaska will be hurt more.

Knowing there isn't a press release yet, I wonder if more SEA routes will come with this? We'll find out.

EDIT: SEA-IND is added.

https://www.google.com/flights/#search; ... 2;s=0;so=t

probaly trying to tap into the Asian connections out of SEA. Although Dulles has a lot of nonstops to Asia these days including CX IAD-HKG starting in September

I flew that route many years ago with the 757 when NW operated the route. It was a gold mine as we were full both ways and there was always a good load of cargo. At the time, there were feed into IAD and the only real connection was NW 7 which was to NRT. However, I don't think the IAD departure times allowed for a connection.

dc10lover wrote:

Going to take business away from United.

That lone flight is not going to be a huge impact. They go 4 a day perhaps but UA has connections inbound and destination traffic for the most part outbound from IAD. DL is just the opposite. No one is taking DL to SAV or JAX via IAD but there are UA customer doing that routing and many others via the SEA IAD Flight.

Looks more like DL is trying everything they can to build connections via SEA.

iadbudd wrote:

probaly trying to tap into the Asian connections out of SEA. Although Dulles has a lot of nonstops to Asia these days including CX IAD-HKG starting in September

Yep, but I don't know how well this one will work. If you are taking the DL flight for a Transpac connection, you will have a pretty good connection on the outbound and an extremely long connection on the return. Most of those DL Transpacs arrive in SEA before 10a and the return flight to IAD isn't until 10p. Besides, UA and NH already cover NRT nonstop, UA covers PEK nonstop, and now (as you mention), CX will cover HKG nonstop. Not too many other options via SEA that aren't already covered nonstop from IAD. Also, United would give you shorter connections and many more options from IAD across the Pacific via ORD, SFO, and LAX to anywhere DL could possibly get you via SEA.

DL's only shot here is (as another poster mentioned) SEA point of sale traffic. UA will likely continue to get the IAD point of sale traffic, and most other connections to/from Asia and Europe.

I'll be surprised if it lasts.

mcdu wrote:

dc10lover wrote:

Going to take business away from United.

That lone flight is not going to be a huge impact. They go 4 a day perhaps but UA has connections inbound and destination traffic for the most part outbound from IAD. DL is just the opposite. No one is taking DL to SAV or JAX via IAD but there are UA customer doing that routing and many others via the SEA IAD Flight.

Looks more like DL is trying everything they can to build connections via SEA.

WAS-SEA ought to be a big O&D market. It doesn't have a lot of non-stops, actually. On 9 Jul (a Monday) it sees:

1x Spirit from BWI

1x DL from IAD, just added

3x UA from IAD

1x WN from BWI

1x AS from IAD

1X AS from IAD

2x AS from DCA

gwrudolph wrote:

iadbudd wrote:

probaly trying to tap into the Asian connections out of SEA. Although Dulles has a lot of nonstops to Asia these days including CX IAD-HKG starting in September

Yep, but I don't know how well this one will work. If you are taking the DL flight for a Transpac connection, you will have a pretty good connection on the outbound and an extremely long connection on the return. Most of those DL Transpacs arrive in SEA before 10a and the return flight to IAD isn't until 10p. Besides, UA and NH already cover NRT nonstop, UA covers PEK nonstop, and now (as you mention), CX will cover HKG nonstop. Not too many other options via SEA that aren't already covered nonstop from IAD. Also, United would give you shorter connections and many more options from IAD across the Pacific via ORD, SFO, and LAX to anywhere DL could possibly get you via SEA.

DL's only shot here is (as another poster mentioned) SEA point of sale traffic. UA will likely continue to get the IAD point of sale traffic, and most other connections to/from Asia and Europe.

I'll be surprised if it lasts.

Passengers going back to IAD do not necessarily have to connect back through SEA. I believe the PEK-SEA arrives in the afternoon...but that connection is still pretty long, 4 to 5 hours.

Delta’s SEA adds have not been just about the transpacific connections for a while now..some of them work with transpac and some of them don’t. It is all about both O&D and the general connectivity of the hub, both domestic and international. For example the IAD-SEA flight is another option from IAD to YVR, YYJ, ANC, FAI, PDX, PSC etc.

panamair wrote:

Delta’s SEA adds have not been just about the transpacific connections for a while now..some of them work with transpac and some of them don’t. It is all about both O&D and the general connectivity of the hub, both domestic and international. For example the IAD-SEA flight is another option from IAD to YVR, YYJ, ANC, FAI, PDX, PSC etc.

As usual you nail it.

This is a very smart add by Delta. This will allow them to continue to grow SEA and provide connections through SEA from Dulles. However, United is probably very mad, and I'm not sure how much business DL is gonna steal from UA. But whatever, this route could probably succeed on O&D. Also, IAD already has many flights to Asia without having to connect.

iadbudd wrote:

probaly trying to tap into the Asian connections out of SEA. Although Dulles has a lot of nonstops to Asia these days including CX IAD-HKG starting in September

A SEA-IAD red eye flight is useless for connections from Asia. HKG-SEA-IAD would have a 14 hour layover in SEA

"That lone flight is not going to be a huge impact. They go 4 a day perhaps but UA has connections inbound and destination traffic for the most part outbound from IAD. DL is just the opposite. No one is taking DL to SAV or JAX via IAD but there are UA customer doing that routing and many others via the SEA IAD Flight."

Most of the Skyteam connections Delta would have at IAD also exist at SEA (except perhaps Saudia and Aeroflot).

Btw, don't Delta and Alaska have some kind of codeshare agreement?

Great add! I was expecting either this or BWI eventually. Some posters have pointed out that this is a redeye, and it's likely that way because of gate space at SEA. The flight not connecting to Asian destinations isn't a big deal IMO because this flight can connect to other places on the West Coast, as well as the flight being well-timed for SEA-WAS O&D.

panamair wrote:

Delta’s SEA adds have not been just about the transpacific connections for a while now..some of them work with transpac and some of them don’t. It is all about both O&D and the general connectivity of the hub, both domestic and international. For example the IAD-SEA flight is another option from IAD to YVR, YYJ, ANC, FAI, PDX, PSC etc.

And I smell "corporate contracts" here, too...

Great add! I wonder what is keeping DL from launching SEA-DFW. Seems like a glaring hole in their network.

kgaiflyer wrote:

Btw, don't Delta and Alaska have some kind of codeshare agreement?

Not anymore.

panamair wrote:

Delta’s SEA adds have not been just about the transpacific connections for a while now..some of them work with transpac and some of them don’t. It is all about both O&D and the general connectivity of the hub, both domestic and international. For example the IAD-SEA flight is another option from IAD to YVR, YYJ, ANC, FAI, PDX, PSC etc.

Exactly this.

as I said in the OAG thread, its pretty foolish to expect HVCs to fly SEA-IAD-Asia. DTW, ICN and even ATL offer much more coverage out of WAS.

IAD, IND and MCI are just about growing the SEA hub overall. It should help Delta grow the local SEA market as well as connections over SEA to places you listed.

airportlover wrote:

This is a very smart add by Delta. This will allow them to continue to grow SEA and provide connections through SEA from Dulles. However, United is probably very mad, and I'm not sure how much business DL is gonna steal from UA. But whatever, this route could probably succeed on O&D. Also, IAD already has many flights to Asia without having to connect.

Why on earth would Ua be mad? A full fare carrier in the market versus a LCC is always good. There is connections from each other’s hub at either end so it’s not siphoning for either carrier. If UA were to add a flight would DL be mad?

I think this is Delta's first non-stop from Sea to the DC area. If you can't fly non-stop into DCA, this would seem to be the next best choice. And I agree, this seems driven by corporate contracts.

deltal1011man wrote:

panamair wrote:

Delta’s SEA adds have not been just about the transpacific connections for a while now..some of them work with transpac and some of them don’t. It is all about both O&D and the general connectivity of the hub, both domestic and international. For example the IAD-SEA flight is another option from IAD to YVR, YYJ, ANC, FAI, PDX, PSC etc.

Exactly this.

as I said in the OAG thread, its pretty foolish to expect HVCs to fly SEA-IAD-Asia. DTW, ICN and even ATL offer much more coverage out of WAS.

IAD, IND and MCI are just about growing the SEA hub overall. It should help Delta grow the local SEA market as well as connections over SEA to places you listed.

It's really only a modest growth at best. Again, gate space at SEA is at a premium.

wedgetail737 wrote:

deltal1011man wrote:

panamair wrote:

Delta’s SEA adds have not been just about the transpacific connections for a while now..some of them work with transpac and some of them don’t. It is all about both O&D and the general connectivity of the hub, both domestic and international. For example the IAD-SEA flight is another option from IAD to YVR, YYJ, ANC, FAI, PDX, PSC etc.

Exactly this.

as I said in the OAG thread, its pretty foolish to expect HVCs to fly SEA-IAD-Asia. DTW, ICN and even ATL offer much more coverage out of WAS.

IAD, IND and MCI are just about growing the SEA hub overall. It should help Delta grow the local SEA market as well as connections over SEA to places you listed.

It's really only a modest growth at best. Again, gate space at SEA is at a premium.

Absolutely its only modest growth. But Delta in general is only modestly growing.

SEA, NYC and LAX will probably start seeing some decent growth again when the CS finally shows up. Till then it will be much smaller growth numbers.

As you said, lack of gates is a problem in all of those cities. SEA should still see good growth numbers this year due to up gauging though.

deltal1011man wrote:

wedgetail737 wrote:

deltal1011man wrote:

Exactly this.

as I said in the OAG thread, its pretty foolish to expect HVCs to fly SEA-IAD-Asia. DTW, ICN and even ATL offer much more coverage out of WAS.

IAD, IND and MCI are just about growing the SEA hub overall. It should help Delta grow the local SEA market as well as connections over SEA to places you listed.

It's really only a modest growth at best. Again, gate space at SEA is at a premium.

Absolutely its only modest growth. But Delta in general is only modestly growing.

SEA, NYC and LAX will probably start seeing some decent growth again when the CS finally shows up. Till then it will be much smaller growth numbers.

As you said, lack of gates is a problem in all of those cities. SEA should still see good growth numbers this year due to up gauging though.

I agree more of the possibility of up-gauging equipment...but not so much in terms of number of flights. Again, gate space at SEA is very tight.

Newbiepilot wrote:

iadbudd wrote:

probaly trying to tap into the Asian connections out of SEA. Although Dulles has a lot of nonstops to Asia these days including CX IAD-HKG starting in September

A SEA-IAD red eye flight is useless for connections from Asia. HKG-SEA-IAD would have a 14 hour layover in SEA

The HKG flight is a good example to use in testing to see if DL is trying to use the flight as a TPAC connector given that HKG is only connected to the DL network through SEA. The other destinations can be reached via DTW and via DCA, both of which are more convenient. They aren't connected which tells me that this flight is about SEA and PacNW traffic. Sometime this summer the KE/DL JV will up and running and that will give the better route from IAD to many Asia-Pacific cities than through SEA.

kgaiflyer wrote:

"That lone flight is not going to be a huge impact. They go 4 a day perhaps but UA has connections inbound and destination traffic for the most part outbound from IAD. DL is just the opposite. No one is taking DL to SAV or JAX via IAD but there are UA customer doing that routing and many others via the SEA IAD Flight."

Most of the Skyteam connections Delta would have at IAD also exist at SEA (except perhaps Saudia and Aeroflot).

Btw, don't Delta and Alaska have some kind of codeshare agreement?

Alaska and Delta's codeshare agreement ended a while ago, hence why DL is adding more domestic flights to/from SEA. My theory is that their partnership ended because more foreign carriers have added flights to SEA. The point initially was for AS domestic passengers to be able to connect to DL's long-haul routes, but since more foreign carriers have shown up at SEA, AS has made partnerships with them and ditched DL in the process...

Routesonline has a souce for these new routes now:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... june-2018/

So SEA-MCI (E75), SEA-IND (319), and SEA-IAD (738) all added once daily. All seem like solid adds for the SEA hub. The biggest hole on the domestic side now is SEA-DFW.

I think every one of the top corporate contracts in Seattle has decent travel to DC. This was a large hole in their network. Since they can't fly into perimeter constrained DCA, IAD is the best bet. It was an important add, even if it doesn't "do that well" on its own, this is key for the market development.

2Holer4Longhaul wrote:

dc10lover wrote:

Going to take business away from United.

I feel like it eats away more at the SeaTac POS, so Alaska will be hurt more.

I don't think DL had much of a choice, they can't serve DCA like AS does, nor do they fly SEA-BWI. This was probably the most viable option for them to connect SEA to the D.C. area, but not offering a flight into DCA isn't going to help them take much POS traffic from Alaska, and UA isn't going to let IAD be a money printer for Delta. I think this was the least bad choice for DL to swallow to connect an important dot.

WkndWanderer wrote:

2Holer4Longhaul wrote:

dc10lover wrote:

Going to take business away from United.

I feel like it eats away more at the SeaTac POS, so Alaska will be hurt more.

I don't think DL had much of a choice, they can't serve DCA like AS does, nor do they fly SEA-BWI. This was probably the most viable option for them to connect SEA to the D.C. area, but not offering a flight into DCA isn't going to help them take much POS traffic from Alaska, and UA isn't going to let IAD be a money printer for Delta. I think this was the least bad choice for DL to swallow to connect an important dot.

DL could serve DCA, but they would have to use either the SLC or LAX (which was just moved from SLC) flights/slots.

jbs2886 wrote:

WkndWanderer wrote:

2Holer4Longhaul wrote:

I feel like it eats away more at the SeaTac POS, so Alaska will be hurt more.

I don't think DL had much of a choice, they can't serve DCA like AS does, nor do they fly SEA-BWI. This was probably the most viable option for them to connect SEA to the D.C. area, but not offering a flight into DCA isn't going to help them take much POS traffic from Alaska, and UA isn't going to let IAD be a money printer for Delta. I think this was the least bad choice for DL to swallow to connect an important dot.

DL could serve DCA, but they would have to use either the SLC or LAX (which was just moved from SLC) flights/slots.

I'm not sure they could just move the remaining SLC-DCA slot to SEA-DCA... I know some of the DCA beyond-perimeter slots are tied to specific markets, and my memory is that SLC is one of those. The former second daily SLC-DCA was not specifically tied to SLC, meaning that DL was able to move it to LAX-DCA without permission from the government.

FSDan wrote:

jbs2886 wrote:

WkndWanderer wrote:

I don't think DL had much of a choice, they can't serve DCA like AS does, nor do they fly SEA-BWI. This was probably the most viable option for them to connect SEA to the D.C. area, but not offering a flight into DCA isn't going to help them take much POS traffic from Alaska, and UA isn't going to let IAD be a money printer for Delta. I think this was the least bad choice for DL to swallow to connect an important dot.

DL could serve DCA, but they would have to use either the SLC or LAX (which was just moved from SLC) flights/slots.

I'm not sure they could just move the remaining SLC-DCA slot to SEA-DCA... I know some of the DCA beyond-perimeter slots are tied to specific markets, and my memory is that SLC is one of those. The former second daily SLC-DCA was not specifically tied to SLC, meaning that DL was able to move it to LAX-DCA without permission from the government.

Correct. Only moveable slots are the last 4 pairs the legacies got. Even the LCC slots are, IIRC, not movable.



I fully expect Delta to add SEA-DCA if the government allows another round of beyond perimeter slots.

Just for my education. Why is AS serving DCA whilst DL can’t?

Overthecascades wrote:

Just for my education. Why is AS serving DCA whilst DL can’t?

Alaska received a perimeter slot exception for their 2x daily flights.

http://www.flyreagan.com/dca/dca-reagan-national-slot-perimeter-rules

deltal1011man wrote:

FSDan wrote:

jbs2886 wrote:

DL could serve DCA, but they would have to use either the SLC or LAX (which was just moved from SLC) flights/slots.

I'm not sure they could just move the remaining SLC-DCA slot to SEA-DCA... I know some of the DCA beyond-perimeter slots are tied to specific markets, and my memory is that SLC is one of those. The former second daily SLC-DCA was not specifically tied to SLC, meaning that DL was able to move it to LAX-DCA without permission from the government.

Correct. Only moveable slots are the last 4 pairs the legacies got. Even the LCC slots are, IIRC, not movable.



I fully expect Delta to add SEA-DCA if the government allows another round of beyond perimeter slots.

Yea, thanks for reminding me. The remaining SLC is tied to SLC, but the LAX moved was the only moveable. Regardless, DL isn't giving up the LAX slot for SEA; IAD will have to do in the meantime.

Overthecascades wrote:

Just for my education. Why is AS serving DCA whilst DL can’t?

DL is at DCA. But DCA is slot constrained. And DL doesn't have any additional slots.

deltal1011man wrote:

I fully expect Delta to add SEA-DCA if the government allows another round of beyond perimeter slots.

I agree with your point, and I could also see Southwest getting extra beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA if extra beyond-perimeter slot exemptions are added at DCA since there are beyond-perimeter destinations, including SAT, DEN, PHX, LAS, OAK, SAN, and SMF, that Southwest could serve nonstop out of DCA if Southwest gets extra beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA.

mcdu wrote:

airportlover wrote:

This is a very smart add by Delta. This will allow them to continue to grow SEA and provide connections through SEA from Dulles. However, United is probably very mad, and I'm not sure how much business DL is gonna steal from UA. But whatever, this route could probably succeed on O&D. Also, IAD already has many flights to Asia without having to connect.

Why on earth would Ua be mad? A full fare carrier in the market versus a LCC is always good. There is connections from each other’s hub at either end so it’s not siphoning for either carrier. If UA were to add a flight would DL be mad?

Mad may have been the wrong word, but UA is certainly not happy about this. They are probably moderately frustrated because DL means more competition on this route, and that ultimately will force them to lower fares even more and cut into their load factors. It is just the way business works. I'm not sure why it required such a reaction from you, but OK.

TransWorldOne wrote:

Great add! I wonder what is keeping DL from launching SEA-DFW. Seems like a glaring hole in their network.

FSDan wrote:

So SEA-MCI (E75), SEA-IND (319), and SEA-IAD (738) all added once daily. All seem like solid adds for the SEA hub. The biggest hole on the domestic side now is SEA-DFW.

There is already a lot of nonstop service between SEA and DFW/DAL, and there will be 14 daily nonstops in each direction between SEA and DFW in Summer 2018, with 9 of these on AA, 4 of these on AS, and 1 of these on NK (but the NK SEA-DFW nonstop service is seasonal). In addition to that, there are already 3 daily nonstops in each direction between SEA and DAL, with 1 of these on WN (who has its home base at DAL), 1 of these on VX (which will be switched to over to AS on March 11th), and the other on AS.

Delta did serve DFW nonstop from SEA back when Delta had a hub at DFW, but Delta could bring back SEA-DFW nonstop service since Delta now has a hub at SEA and since Delta would be able to connect passengers to destinations in Asia, Alaska, the Pacific Northwest, and Western Canada from DFW through SEA if Delta brings back SEA-DFW nonstop service. I agree that the lack of DL nonstop service to DFW from SEA is still a hole for DL, even with lots of nonstop service from SEA to DFW/DAL on DL's competitors, since there are some customers in the Seattle area that prefer to fly on DL over AS, AA, and WN.

In addition, DL also has nonstop service from its SEA hub to destinations that AA and WN do not serve, including FAI, JNU, KTN, PSC, SIT, SUN, and YYJ, and DL would be able to connect passengers between these 7 destinations and DFW through SEA if it brings back SEA-DFW nonstop service.

Much ado about nothing. Does anyone in their right mind, except the DL fan boys, think UA is just going to sit there and not reply? They will increase flights on this route and DL will get stuck with discount fares and they will pull out of this market instead of eating a loss. Its a UA hub, an international market place, and its the nations capital. UA will defend it until the last ounce of Jet-A is used up

Travelmanager wrote:

I think every one of the top corporate contracts in Seattle has decent travel to DC. This was a large hole in their network. Since they can't fly into perimeter constrained DCA, IAD is the best bet. It was an important add, even if it doesn't "do that well" on its own, this is key for the market development.

From my experiences in corporate travel, corporate travelers prefer not to use red-eye departures, even if DL is the preferred carrier for their company, SEA based business travelers won't use this schedule.

jplatts wrote:

I agree with your point, and I could also see Southwest getting extra beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA if extra beyond-perimeter slot exemptions are added at DCA since there are beyond-perimeter destinations, including SAT, DEN, PHX, LAS, OAK, SAN, and SMF, that Southwest could serve nonstop out of DCA if Southwest gets extra beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA.

I can't because Congress will most likely follow the precedent it set when it last granted a perimeter exemption.

For the incumbent airlines, no new slots were created. They were allowed to use one of their existing slot pairs for an additional beyond perimeter flight.

airportlover wrote:

mcdu wrote:

airportlover wrote:

This is a very smart add by Delta. This will allow them to continue to grow SEA and provide connections through SEA from Dulles. However, United is probably very mad, and I'm not sure how much business DL is gonna steal from UA. But whatever, this route could probably succeed on O&D. Also, IAD already has many flights to Asia without having to connect.

Why on earth would Ua be mad? A full fare carrier in the market versus a LCC is always good. There is connections from each other’s hub at either end so it’s not siphoning for either carrier. If UA were to add a flight would DL be mad?

Mad may have been the wrong word, but UA is certainly not happy about this. They are probably moderately frustrated because DL means more competition on this route, and that ultimately will force them to lower fares even more and cut into their load factors. It is just the way business works. I'm not sure why it required such a reaction from you, but OK.

So when another airline adds a segment in a DL market does DL lower their fares? Your analogy might be appropriate if it was an LCC but o certainly don’t see UA and DL in a fare war in a market with 4 total flights.

Here is the press release.

http://news.delta.com/delta-s-seattle-g ... aight-year

It's a natural add. The market is not over served, it's an important destination to help win over heavy FFs from Alaska. Delta made a good route addition for their Network. DL is big to win FFs from Alaska these days I bet wee see some more changes and additions as they try to fine tune SEA.

727200 wrote:

Much ado about nothing. Does anyone in their right mind, except the DL fan boys, think UA is just going to sit there and not reply? They will increase flights on this route and DL will get stuck with discount fares and they will pull out of this market instead of eating a loss. Its a UA hub, an international market place, and its the nations capital. UA will defend it until the last ounce of Jet-A is used up

SEA is a DL hub, and an international marketplace. Your logic is flawed.