Swadian
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Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:38 am

I see that S7 deploys a combination of A320neo and A321ceo on OVB-BKK; is this the longest route for both types?

I think we have new champion. :)
Inland Streamliner
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:54 am

I would have thought that somewhere out there there would be a route longer than this. This route is 2620nm.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:25 am

Here is an old thread on the same topic: viewtopic.php?t=703277

It appears this might be a record:
Now the similar length routes seem seem out of service: AB flying STR-AUH at 2579nm
There is another entry (I haven't confirmed), GF flying BAH-CDG: which is close at 2607sm

I fully expect longer flights soon on the A321NEO from HA. e.g., maybe HNL-DEN (discussed at purchase) of 2,924nm.

Of course we'll see longer flights with the A321LR, but that is a few years away.

Lightsaber
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Newbiepilot
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Re: Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:29 am

737-800s and 737-900ERs are already flying routes over 2900nm, so I would have thought the A321 would have some longer routes
 
BNEFlyer
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Re: Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:27 am

WOW fly KEF-TLV with a combination of A321/A321N/A320N and it's 2854nm.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:30 am

Newbiepilot wrote:
737-800s and 737-900ERs are already flying routes over 2900nm, so I would have thought the A321 would have some longer routes

There is a disconnect between the latest A320/A321 ranges with the latest V2500 PIPS w/Sharklets and routes run. Now one downside of the A320 is that when you load it with 162 pax (vs. 150), the amount of fuel in the single ACT doesn't quite cut it, significantly reducing the range (the A320CEO is right on the cusp of being able to use the cargo tank, ACT, or not and that really impacts range).

With the issues with both the Pratt and CFM engines of the NEO (to my knowledge, the fix for the CFMs isn't certified, did I miss that?). Pratt has done upgrades, but I expect the airlines to be cautious after the bumpy EIS. I cannot help but notice the ranges for the NEOs seem to have been cut (at least on wikipedia). I"ll have to figure out why...

The A320NEO is specified with the 162 passenger range, but mostly is that the more efficient engines can do more with the little fuel in the ACT (1t higher MTOW, but about 1.8t more engine/payload weight). IMHO, the A320NEO needs a 2t increase in MTOW for the missions we're discussing.

The A321NEO also needs more MTOW too, which the LR will kindly provide. :spin: Since Airbus is developing the A321LR, there isn't going to be much demand for a high MTOW A320NEO, so that will just be a dream of mine... :cloudnine:
You only have the first amendment with the 2nd. If you're not going to offend someone with what you say, you don't have the 1st.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:19 am

lightsaber wrote:
The A321NEO also needs more MTOW too, which the LR will kindly provide. :spin: Since Airbus is developing the A321LR, there isn't going to be much demand for a high MTOW A320NEO, so that will just be a dream of mine... :cloudnine:

The problem with increasing A320neo's MTOW being you can't really benefit much from the added MTOW unless you're extremely cargo (density) heavy. remember someone said when discussing about US A321s that they frequently hit full fuel (without ACT) and MZFW while still a bit way off from MTOW, so it makes sense to add ACTs to those birds. But I don't think this is the case for A320 (correct me if I'm wrong). If you add ACT to A320neo it also eats into your already limited cargo space, while for A321 it's not too much an issue.

Michael
 
Swadian
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Re: Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:56 pm

BNEFlyer wrote:
WOW fly KEF-TLV with a combination of A321/A321N/A320N and it's 2854nm.


A quick check on FR24 show KEF-TLV with A320N. OVB-BKK may still be the longest for the A321ceo.
Inland Streamliner
 
airberlin2017
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Re: Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:21 pm

KEF-STL with 3.201mi is the new longest route for the A321ceo, first flight 05/17/18.
 
TC957
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Re: Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:36 pm

Thomas Cook Airlines do BJL - MAN with the 321.
There's also Finnair 321's doing HEL - LPA/TFS.
 
B777LRF
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Re: Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:59 pm

TC957 wrote:
Thomas Cook Airlines do BJL - MAN with the 321.
There's also Finnair 321's doing HEL - LPA/TFS.


Long, but not quiet long enough; MAN-BJL is 'only' 2494NM whereas HEL-LPA/TFS are 2538 and 2563NM respectively. If WOW occasionally operates the KEF-TLV with a -ceo, then it will be the longest listed so far at 2854NM, beating OVB-BKK by 234NM.
Signature. You just read one.
 
arcticcruiser
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Re: Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:22 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Here is an old thread on the same topic: viewtopic.php?t=703277

It appears this might be a record:
Now the similar length routes seem seem out of service: AB flying STR-AUH at 2579nm
There is another entry (I haven't confirmed), GF flying BAH-CDG: which is close at 2607sm

I fully expect longer flights soon on the A321NEO from HA. e.g., maybe HNL-DEN (discussed at purchase) of 2,924nm.

Of course we'll see longer flights with the A321LR, but that is a few years away.

Lightsaber


But DEN-HNL is going to be difficult...
 
arcticcruiser
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Re: Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:23 pm

airberlin2017 wrote:
KEF-STL with 3.201mi is the new longest route for the A321ceo, first flight 05/17/18.


Can we stick to NM for aeronautical distances please? Use miles on the road.
 
BENAir01
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Re: Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:03 pm

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=KEF-TLV%2F ... =wls&DU=nm
As we can see from this KEF-TLV remains the longest, followed by the flight to STL, CDG-BAH, and AUH-STR. OVB-BKK follows those.
Why is flying so expensive? And why is flying well so much more?
 
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LTU932
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Re: Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:16 pm

Wasn't at one point LHR-THR one of the longest flights flown on an A321?
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Swadian
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Re: Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:13 pm

BENAir01 wrote:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=KEF-TLV%2FSTL%2C+OVB-BKK%2C+BAH-CDG%2C+STR-AUH%2C+HEL-TFS%2FDXB%2C+MAN-BJL&MS=wls&DU=nm
As we can see from this KEF-TLV remains the longest, followed by the flight to STL, CDG-BAH, and AUH-STR. OVB-BKK follows those.


Slight correction, CDG-BAH and AUH-STR are both shorter than OVB-BKK. Due to Chinese airspace restriction, OVB-BKK may occasionally be the longest by actual distance flown.

YKS-DME on S7 is also quite long (flown by 738).
Inland Streamliner
 
BojamDelta
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Re: Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:51 pm

Gulf Air sometimes sends an A320 to LHR.
What's the mileage on that route?
 
BENAir01
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Re: Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:36 pm

Swadian wrote:
BENAir01 wrote:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=KEF-TLV%2FSTL%2C+OVB-BKK%2C+BAH-CDG%2C+STR-AUH%2C+HEL-TFS%2FDXB%2C+MAN-BJL&MS=wls&DU=nm
As we can see from this KEF-TLV remains the longest, followed by the flight to STL, CDG-BAH, and AUH-STR. OVB-BKK follows those.


Slight correction, CDG-BAH and AUH-STR are both shorter than OVB-BKK. Due to Chinese airspace restriction, OVB-BKK may occasionally be the longest by actual distance flown.

YKS-DME on S7 is also quite long (flown by 738).

Oh yeah, haha, my mistake.
Why is flying so expensive? And why is flying well so much more?
 
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MaxiAir
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Re: Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:18 pm

WOW did operate KEF-MIA-KEF once with the A321neo - thats 3182 NM. - not a scheduled service though.
Flown on - 306,313,318,319,320,321,332,333,343,345,346,359,388, 712,733,734,735,736,73G,738,744,748,752,753,763,77E,77L,77W, M11,M88, CR7,CR9, E35,E45,E75,E90,E95, AR1,AR8, DHT,DH1,DH4, and some more ;)

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VCEflyboy
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Re: Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:31 am

BojamDelta wrote:
Gulf Air sometimes sends an A320 to LHR.
What's the mileage on that route?


QR too used to fly the a320 to LHR. That’s over 2800 miles.
 
Swadian
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Re: Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:18 pm

VCEflyboy wrote:
BojamDelta wrote:
Gulf Air sometimes sends an A320 to LHR.
What's the mileage on that route?


QR too used to fly the a320 to LHR. That’s over 2800 miles.


DOH-LHR is 2834nm. I believe it was a low-density A320?
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AirbusOnly
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Re: Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:53 pm

MaxiAir wrote:
WOW did operate KEF-MIA-KEF once with the A321neo - thats 3182 NM. - not a scheduled service though.


That Service was not only once, but several times, always with their one and only A 321neo TF-SKY.
 
eicvd
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Re: Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:08 pm

VCEflyboy wrote:
BojamDelta wrote:
Gulf Air sometimes sends an A320 to LHR.
What's the mileage on that route?


QR too used to fly the a320 to LHR. That’s over 2800 miles.


Was a J class configured A319LR
COYBIB
 
Swadian
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Re: Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:04 am

AirbusOnly wrote:
MaxiAir wrote:
WOW did operate KEF-MIA-KEF once with the A321neo - thats 3182 NM. - not a scheduled service though.


That Service was not only once, but several times, always with their one and only A 321neo TF-SKY.


That's the current record, then? Any weight restrictions?
Inland Streamliner
 
AirbusOnly
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Re: Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:23 pm

Today WOW seems to set a new record again: their A 321neo TF-SKY is flying KEF-LAX nonstop!! 6.942km = 8,37 h NONSTOP in a narrowbody...usually this flight is done by their A330.

https://www.flightradar24.com/WOW173/1035e4d6 is this flight a Milestone?
 
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reidar76
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Re: Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:31 pm

AirbusOnly wrote:
Today WOW seems to set a new record again: their A 321neo TF-SKY is flying KEF-LAX nonstop!! 6.942km = 8,37 h NONSTOP in a narrowbody...usually this flight is done by their A330.

https://www.flightradar24.com/WOW173/1035e4d6 is this flight a Milestone?


3750 nm, that's very impressive. Their A321neo (TF-SKY) is configured in a single class layout with 220 seats and CFM Leap-1A, correct? (Seatguru.com lists two different seat configurations for WOW A321s.)

The real world range of the A321neo indicates what we can expect from the A321LR. The A321LR is carrying just over 10% more fuel than an A321neo with two ACTs. The MTOW will be increased to compensate for that extra fuel, so there will be no reduction in payload.

Considering this new, real world performance data, it is realistic to assume that we regularly will see the A321LR with more than 200 passengers, flying for more than 9 hours (nonstop). This is a game changer.

At the press conference when Norwegian ordered 30 A321LR the CEO said that the A321LR had even better CASM than the 787, and then he added that with the A321LR 'we don't have to sell all those seats' (ref. Both yield per seat sold and utilization level of available seats).
 
parapente
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Re: Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:56 pm

I have said on similar threads 'we ain't seen nothing yet'.Yes we need to wait a year for the LR but it's coming.It is a game changer - which is why Boeing will launch the MOM this year,they can't afford not to.
A lot is spoken about point to point from or to secondary cities.This 200 seater will make it happen big time.The airlines are just starting to explore all the possibilities that have never existed before.
 
mat66
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Re: Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:58 pm

reidar76 wrote:
AirbusOnly wrote:
Today WOW seems to set a new record again: their A 321neo TF-SKY is flying KEF-LAX nonstop!! 6.942km = 8,37 h NONSTOP in a narrowbody...usually this flight is done by their A330.

https://www.flightradar24.com/WOW173/1035e4d6 is this flight a Milestone?


3750 nm, that's very impressive. Their A321neo (TF-SKY) is configured in a single class layout with 220 seats and CFM Leap-1A, correct? (Seatguru.com lists two different seat configurations for WOW A321s.)

The real world range of the A321neo indicates what we can expect from the A321LR. The A321LR is carrying just over 10% more fuel than an A321neo with two ACTs. The MTOW will be increased to compensate for that extra fuel, so there will be no reduction in payload.

Considering this new, real world performance data, it is realistic to assume that we regularly will see the A321LR with more than 200 passengers, flying for more than 9 hours (nonstop). This is a game changer.

At the press conference when Norwegian ordered 30 A321LR the CEO said that the A321LR had even better CASM than the 787, and then he added that with the A321LR 'we don't have to sell all those seats' (ref. Both yield per seat sold and utilization level of available seats).


That is just crazy. While we don't know number of pax, we can be certain that there is not a single fish on board, can't we?
 
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reidar76
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Re: Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:52 pm

mat66 wrote:
That is just crazy. While we don't know number of pax, we can be certain that there is not a single fish on board, can't we?


Looking at the flight history of this aircraft on flightradar24.com, it regular fly up and around 8 hours, connecting Miami and Tel Aviv to Iceland.

Since it is replacing an A333 today on the Iceland - Los Angeles run, it is likely it is full of pax (220) and doesn't carry any cargo except passengers bags.
 
bananaboy
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Re: Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:16 pm

I've noticed Novair regularly doing ARN-SID with A321neo which is 3127nm - in fact is currently in flight.

Just pipped by WOW Air though.

Mark
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Qatara340
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Re: Longest A321ceo/A320neo route OVB-BKK?

Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:30 am

VCEflyboy wrote:
BojamDelta wrote:
Gulf Air sometimes sends an A320 to LHR.
What's the mileage on that route?


QR too used to fly the a320 to LHR. That’s over 2800 miles.


QR never flew A320's to LHR. There was the short-lived All J A319LR flying the route--which was replaced by 787, and now A359.
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