Fargo
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:00 am

stlgph wrote:
Trust. It's more than just unscrewing a signal and putting in a new one. The whole system has to be pretty much be re-built on the inside from start to finish along the whole line


But that's just it, what exactly are they rebuilding? That has never been made clear. I don't see any physical removal of tracks or signals along the line. How can replacing a computer system really take more than a few months when all of the basic infrastructure is already in place?

If it is that time consuming, they probably should shut down the system 24/7 rather than simply M-F until further notice.

stlgph wrote:
replacing technology from the 80s


I thought the original system opened in 1993?
 
stlgph
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:31 am

The system opened in May 1993. When did construction begin? 1991? It's government work, so you're looking at years of planning, design, and development by agencies trying to win the bid -- that's taking place in what? 1989-1990, maybe 1988? What are they using to base their design and operations? 1980s technology which may, at that point, have been even older than that.

It's more than just "get on the tracks and go system." It's communications-based-signal control systems, throughout the whole line, and the system beyond. Every inch of the operation has to be in agreement with every other inch of the operation, and in agreement with the operating equipment, especially when using driverless automated systems. Every stop and every acceleration of every train car on that line has to receive the "ok" from the rest of the system so the cars are spaced and don't crash into each other.

It's much more complicated than you think.

You should be thankful it's only taking a year and a half. It's probably going to be a 30-40 year project, in total, if not 50, for New York City and the PATH to bring their entire system up to date with a similar system.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:16 pm

ord787 wrote:
the ATS will be finish it upgrade around 1Q of 2019 but then it required the ATS to do the safety test run continuously for 6 months without any passenger/people on it that why it will be finish Fall 2019


This schedule is a disappointment, but on the bright side, on my first international to domestic transfer with the bus a couple of days ago, the system went actually quite smoothly. There was no waiting; the people involved all hustled, and I was in Terminal 2 as fast as I would have been on the ATS, maybe quicker (admittedly, I arrived before noon on a weekday, so a fairly quiet time for a transfer). I have been considering arranging my next International itinerary to arrive O'Hare on a weekend to take advantage of the ATS operating, but now I feel the bus during the week is less of a factor.

I am wondering, however, how long the weekend ATS service will continue; seems like eventually the'll have to completely shut it down, considering the info above from stigph.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:57 pm

A sign of continuing progress on O'Hare's next new runway: in an email from a couple of days ago, the Chicago Department of Aviation issued a bid opportunity entitled Addendum #1 - Runway 9C-27C Bid Package #3 & Runway 4L-22R Rehabilitation, with an opening date of November 20.

"The scope of work associated with the construction of the Runway 9C-27C Bid Package #3 & Runway 4L-22R Rehabilitation Project includes, but is not limited to, the following items: All work for the construction of a portion of Runway 9C-27C, rehabilitation of Runway 4L-22R, associated Taxiways, and rehabilitation of the North Airfield Lighting Control Vault. Work Elements include, pavement demolition, utility demolition, earthwork, grading, paving, drainage, utilities, airfield lighting, common electrical duct bank, vault electrical, FAA approach lighting, pavement marking, and fencing..."

Can't link the email, but the bid is listed here:
https://www.cityofchicago.org/city/en/d ... ities.html
 
stlgph
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:29 pm

yeogeo wrote:
ord787 wrote:
the ATS will be finish it upgrade around 1Q of 2019 but then it required the ATS to do the safety test run continuously for 6 months without any passenger/people on it that why it will be finish Fall 2019


This schedule is a disappointment, but on the bright side, on my first international to domestic transfer with the bus a couple of days ago, the system went actually quite smoothly. There was no waiting; the people involved all hustled, and I was in Terminal 2 as fast as I would have been on the ATS, maybe quicker (admittedly, I arrived before noon on a weekday, so a fairly quiet time for a transfer). I have been considering arranging my next International itinerary to arrive O'Hare on a weekend to take advantage of the ATS operating, but now I feel the bus during the week is less of a factor.

I am wondering, however, how long the weekend ATS service will continue; seems like eventually the'll have to completely shut it down, considering the info above from stigph.


Sounds like the shut downs during the week may be sufficient enough to get it done.

As someone who has spent a few years living in NYC and seeing the complete mess such work is causing now and will cause in the future - all I can say is kudos to the ORD folks for getting it done now and getting it done in what seems to be a reasonable window given the scope of the work.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:38 pm

kordcj wrote:
Didn’t TP announce ORD starting in 2020 or something like that?

TheKennady2 wrote:
I doubt TP is official

United787 wrote:
How come I don't remember TP announcing ORD-LIS in June 2019. Is this confirmed?


LIS<>ORD on TP is not confirmed. LXwing summarizes what I think is the consensus on this in TAP to add 15 new routes , 3 from OPO (post #68 on p.2)
"The 10 North American destinations that TAP aims to have in the near future are mostly known; the 5 existing: MIA, EWR, JFK, BOS and YYZ, plus the other 5 discussed many times: SFO, ORD, IAD, YUL (all all planned for 2019) and LAX (2020?)."

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1403483&start=50

I trust this info and expect to see an announcement from TAP in due time, but who knows; things can change.
 
muralir
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:27 pm

ORDfan wrote:
The city has narrowed down the list of architectural firms for the expansion down to 5, from the initial 12 that submitted.

Nonetheless, ORD simply cannot lose with this roster of finalists - all top-tier, world-class shops. Personally, I'm rooting for either Calatrava or Foster Partners. I think Fentress does really good work (I love ICN), but it's the least avant-garde of the bunch. I'm assuming since Jahn did not make the final cut, the city will want to push the envelope artistically. SOM more than capable in that regard too.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/col ... story.html


I'm actually hoping it won't be Calatrava. He has a well-deserved reputation for poor functionality. While his designs look nice, many of his projects are wildly over budget and have become boondoggles because of problems with their functionality. Check out this article:

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/25/arts ... -fans.html
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:13 pm

muralir wrote:
I'm actually hoping it won't be Calatrava. He has a well-deserved reputation for poor functionality. While his designs look nice, many of his projects are wildly over budget and have become boondoggles because of problems with their functionality. Check out this article:

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/25/arts ... -fans.html


At the risk of repeating myself... I am in total agreement with you on this one, muralir. No more bleached turkey carcasses please!
 
ual763
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:02 am

If only Saarinen was still alive. He was and will always be the best in my opinion.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
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United787
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:02 pm

ual763 wrote:
If only Saarinen was still alive. He was and will always be the best in my opinion.


Father or son? Eliel or Eero?
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:12 pm

Via an email today, the Chicago Dept. of Aviation announced the holiday schedule of the O'Hare ATS (transit system) operation. In addition they dropped this piece of news:

"Beginning January 8, 2019, the schedule will move to full system closures to allow for safety testing and other requisite commissioning activities before the new system opens."

It could be made a bit clearer, IMO, but I'm reading it as from that date there will be no more weekend operation of the ATS until the reopening sometime in the fall of 2019.

Here are the holiday ATS operating schedules (in addition to the weekend operations):
November 20 through the 26th.
December 14 through the 16th
December 21 through January 7.

All other dates require bus transfers.
 
ORDfan
Topic Author
Posts: 450
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:19 pm

muralir wrote:
ORDfan wrote:
The city has narrowed down the list of architectural firms for the expansion down to 5, from the initial 12 that submitted.

Nonetheless, ORD simply cannot lose with this roster of finalists - all top-tier, world-class shops. Personally, I'm rooting for either Calatrava or Foster Partners. I think Fentress does really good work (I love ICN), but it's the least avant-garde of the bunch. I'm assuming since Jahn did not make the final cut, the city will want to push the envelope artistically. SOM more than capable in that regard too.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/col ... story.html


I'm actually hoping it won't be Calatrava. He has a well-deserved reputation for poor functionality. While his designs look nice, many of his projects are wildly over budget and have become boondoggles because of problems with their functionality. Check out this article:

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/25/arts ... -fans.html


I know he has that reputation, but he is also extremely-decorated and accomplished. If you look at his portfolio over the last 3 decades, I think it's fair to say his designs age incredibly well, with some of his projects from the 90's and early 2000's looking like they came out tomorrow.

He is innovative and yes some builders are challenged by that. For ORD, building a new terminal complex for the next 50 years... I'd say the city can afford to risk a few delays (as they have already) if he comes up with something epic. Again, this a competition.... I might like something else once the final renders are released. Overall, don't think ORD can lose with these finalists.
yeogeo wrote:
Via an email today, the Chicago Dept. of Aviation announced the holiday schedule of the O'Hare ATS (transit system) operation. In addition they dropped this piece of news:

"Beginning January 8, 2019, the schedule will move to full system closures to allow for safety testing and other requisite commissioning activities before the new system opens."

It could be made a bit clearer, IMO, but I'm reading it as from that date there will be no more weekend operation of the ATS until the reopening sometime in the fall of 2019.

Here are the holiday ATS operating schedules (in addition to the weekend operations):
November 20 through the 26th.
December 14 through the 16th
December 21 through January 7.

All other dates require bus transfers.


I haven't used the new MMF yet, but my friend said the bus transfer was pretty easy and fast recently - "painless" is the exact phrase he called it. Maybe that changes in January or February, lol.
 
nomorerjs
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:20 am

AV starts BOG on Saturday and NZ is just over two weeks away!
 
ual763
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:03 am

United787 wrote:
ual763 wrote:
If only Saarinen was still alive. He was and will always be the best in my opinion.


Father or son? Eliel or Eero?


Eero!
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
ual763
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:06 am

O’hare is bringing th Christmas decorations out! My favorite time of year to walk through the terminals. And also, we’ve alluded to it in this thread before, but T3 always seems to have the best Holiday decorations with T1 not typically having as much. Well, this year, T1 has some very nice lighting being put up from the looks of it.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
ORDfan
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:36 am

Does anyone know what type of construction is going on at the Des Plaines Oasis?

Looks like some concrete support columns are getting poured between the northbound & southbound lanes. It seems bigger than signage-related to my eye.

Would be great if it was a new pavilion/bridge over the highway like it used be, and formerly like O'hare oasis. I'm crossing my fingers.
 
ual763
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:19 pm

O’hare is an absolute nightmare today. The line to get on the buses from T5 over to T1/2/3 is about 3 hours long. People are having to pay for taxi cabs over to the domestic terminals just to make their connections,.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
nomorerjs
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:36 pm

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bizjou ... e.amp.html

AA adding summer YQB, GCM, and PLS flights. Also 3 of the 4 LHR flights will be 789 in summer.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:46 pm

ual763 wrote:
O’hare is an absolute nightmare today. The line to get on the buses from T5 over to T1/2/3 is about 3 hours long. People are having to pay for taxi cabs over to the domestic terminals just to make their connections,.


3 hours! ugh. I hope this is not a sign of thing to come for the Holiday Season just ahead. If so, its going to be a hard one for those international<>domestic travelers at O'Hare.
 
Fargo
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:14 am

ORDfan wrote:
Does anyone know what type of construction is going on at the Des Plaines Oasis?

Looks like some concrete support columns are getting poured between the northbound & southbound lanes. It seems bigger than signage-related to my eye.

Would be great if it was a new pavilion/bridge over the highway like it used be, and formerly like O'hare oasis. I'm crossing my fingers.


They are beginning to build the O'Hare West Bypass (I-490) interchange, which will wrap around the west side of ORD and eventually provide for western access.
 
ORDfan
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:15 am

Fargo wrote:
ORDfan wrote:
Does anyone know what type of construction is going on at the Des Plaines Oasis?

Looks like some concrete support columns are getting poured between the northbound & southbound lanes. It seems bigger than signage-related to my eye.

Would be great if it was a new pavilion/bridge over the highway like it used be, and formerly like O'hare oasis. I'm crossing my fingers.


They are beginning to build the O'Hare West Bypass (I-490) interchange, which will wrap around the west side of ORD and eventually provide for western access.


Thanks Fargo...that's a good guess. Are you certain it will wrap around the oasis there? It seems a little far east to me if that's the case, and also, seems strange to make a ramp that will fly over the oasis and merge right by Elmhurt Road? I would think something to the west of it would be more fluid...

You could be right... I'm just having a hard envisioning the ramp/bridge in that location specifically...
 
ZBA2CGX
Posts: 104
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:28 pm

ORDfan wrote:
Fargo wrote:
ORDfan wrote:
Does anyone know what type of construction is going on at the Des Plaines Oasis?

Looks like some concrete support columns are getting poured between the northbound & southbound lanes. It seems bigger than signage-related to my eye.

Would be great if it was a new pavilion/bridge over the highway like it used be, and formerly like O'hare oasis. I'm crossing my fingers.


They are beginning to build the O'Hare West Bypass (I-490) interchange, which will wrap around the west side of ORD and eventually provide for western access.


Thanks Fargo...that's a good guess. Are you certain it will wrap around the oasis there? It seems a little far east to me if that's the case, and also, seems strange to make a ramp that will fly over the oasis and merge right by Elmhurt Road? I would think something to the west of it would be more fluid...

You could be right... I'm just having a hard envisioning the ramp/bridge in that location specifically...


see (Big) http://www.idot.illinois.gov/Assets/upl ... Report.pdf
see page 148/149 for all the different options
 
ORDfan
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:44 pm

ZBA2CGX wrote:
ORDfan wrote:
Fargo wrote:

They are beginning to build the O'Hare West Bypass (I-490) interchange, which will wrap around the west side of ORD and eventually provide for western access.


Thanks Fargo...that's a good guess. Are you certain it will wrap around the oasis there? It seems a little far east to me if that's the case, and also, seems strange to make a ramp that will fly over the oasis and merge right by Elmhurt Road? I would think something to the west of it would be more fluid...

You could be right... I'm just having a hard envisioning the ramp/bridge in that location specifically...


see (Big) http://www.idot.illinois.gov/Assets/upl ... Report.pdf
see page 148/149 for all the different options


Awesome, thanks for sharing! First time I have seen that document.

Based off where the columns I see going up on I-90, it looks like they might be going with Option E. Again, I would've thought options A, B, or C would have made more sense, as I noted above, lol. But hey, I'm not an expert.

Page 149 is super interesting: I can't imagine how different that part of 294 is going to look if this eventually comes to fruition. I think Option F looks to be the least disruptive to the industrial complex on the south-side of the airfield. I am pulling for that one.
 
ZBA2CGX
Posts: 104
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:12 pm

ORDfan wrote:
ZBA2CGX wrote:
ORDfan wrote:
Based off where the columns I see going up on I-90, it looks like they might be going with Option E. Again, I would've thought options A, B, or C would have made more sense, as I noted above, lol. But hey, I'm not an expert.


I think it is alternative 203 option D, see page 162. Plus it matches up with the construction IDOT is doing on the I-294.
 
sircygnus
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:23 pm

 
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yeogeo
Posts: 927
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:46 pm



As nomorerjs mentioned upthread, Avianca starts BOG<>ORD tomorrow. I thought I'd look up their schedule:

AV82 departs BOG 12:35 hrs and arrives ORD 18:15, a 6'40" flight operated with an A-319.

AV83 depart ORD 22:00 hrs and arrives BOG 5:15 +1 after a 6'15" flight.

These flights are currently scheduled to operate Mon/Wed/Fri/Sat.
 
ZBA2CGX
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:09 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:50 pm

hmm,
I-90 / I-490 Interchange
https://www.illinoistollway.com/documen ... 4609da234e

I-294 / I-490 interchange (little info, other than the preferred option)
https://www.illinoistollway.com/project ... nterchange
 
ORDfan
Topic Author
Posts: 450
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:19 pm

ZBA2CGX wrote:
hmm,
I-90 / I-490 Interchange
https://www.illinoistollway.com/documen ... 4609da234e

I-294 / I-490 interchange (little info, other than the preferred option)
https://www.illinoistollway.com/project ... nterchange


Bingo...there it is, you got it. Thanks for all the links.

This will necessitate the closure off the Des Plaines oasis altogether, not a flyover (which I thought did not make sense). I really do think IDOT should look rebuilding both the Des Plaines and O'hare Oasis after all this construction. Seems like a giant missed revenue opportunity if they don't.

"Closure and removal of the 7 Eleven fuel stations at the Des Plaines Oasis will be scheduled in early 2019."
 
TSA125
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:56 pm

Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:25 pm

I noticed the schedule for EY 150 ORD-AUH switched to the evening bank of departures, joining the other ME carriers. Is this a seasonal change? That's quite a long time for a 77W to sit idle compared to before. What's their reasoning for doing this?
No not that TSA.
 
airstatdfw
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:04 am

Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:05 pm

TSA125 wrote:
I noticed the schedule for EY 150 ORD-AUH switched to the evening bank of departures, joining the other ME carriers. Is this a seasonal change? That's quite a long time for a 77W to sit idle compared to before. What's their reasoning for doing this?


They also now arrive in the afternoon as well.
 
nomorerjs
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:25 am

 
Fargo
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:00 am

Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:58 am

So now that the CONRAC is open, what is becoming of the old rental car lots?

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