ORDfan
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:29 pm

Great recap, Kyle... thanks for breaking it out that way.

I'm seriously running out of adjectives this year to describe this continuous record-breaking growth. Total freight tonnage is now up a significant 5% YTD, with international leading the way yet again. That is impressive given the headwinds to global trade at the moment. Really glad to see it.

On another note, the city came to an agreement with Hilton to totally remodel/revamp the hotel. Looks like its going upscale, according to Crains, possibly becoming a Conrad or other first-class sub-brand. I think this a great outcome, as the basic "Mies-ian" international style architecture still looks great IMO on the outside, but surely could use some TLC inside. I'm happy the CDA came to this arrangment. Also, the T5 hotel is now "on hold" for the foreseeable future, as the city will let Hilton maintain exclusivity to regain costs incurred.

Was not a big fan of the T5 hotel proposal, so happy to see that one dead for now too.

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/greg-hi ... hare-hotel
 
sircygnus
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:20 pm

For those interested in regaining a “busiest”, title August’s numbers were tough. ORD had under 1000 more movements than ATL, with 6355 movements to make up in the final four months of the year.
 
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United787
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:25 pm

ORDfan wrote:
Great recap, Kyle... thanks for breaking it out that way.

I'm seriously running out of adjectives this year to describe this continuous record-breaking growth. Total freight tonnage is now up a significant 5% YTD, with international leading the way yet again. That is impressive given the headwinds to global trade at the moment. Really glad to see it.

On another note, the city came to an agreement with Hilton to totally remodel/revamp the hotel. Looks like its going upscale, according to Crains, possibly becoming a Conrad or other first-class sub-brand. I think this a great outcome, as the basic "Mies-ian" international style architecture still looks great IMO on the outside, but surely could use some TLC inside. I'm happy the CDA came to this arrangment. Also, the T5 hotel is now "on hold" for the foreseeable future, as the city will let Hilton maintain exclusivity to regain costs incurred.

Was not a big fan of the T5 hotel proposal, so happy to see that one dead for now too.

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/greg-hi ... hare-hotel


I will give you another one... STUPENDOUS

I also love the simple curved Mies-ian Hilton also. Glad to see the City work out another deal that seems to be better for the City.

sircygnus wrote:
For those interested in regaining a “busiest”, title August’s numbers were tough. ORD had under 1000 more movements than ATL, with 6355 movements to make up in the final four months of the year.


I am not really interested until the net quantity of gates starts to increase from the O'Hare 21 project... I think we are looking at 3-4 years before that starts to happen. But I think the "L" stinger gates will help close the gap in the short term.
 
Fargo
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:12 pm

Have they even started the 9-gate Terminal 5 expansion? I keep hearing it was a pre-approved project, but I don’t think construction has started yet. When will they break ground?
 
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United787
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:25 pm

I believe the T5 expansion is under the O'Hare 21 umbrella. The City still hasn't announced the winning architecture teams which means nothing has even been designed yet. I bet we are 18-24 months from breaking ground but there will probably be early infrastructure work that can get started once a concept has been approved.
 
ORDfan
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:28 pm

United787 wrote:
I believe the T5 expansion is under the O'Hare 21 umbrella. The City still hasn't announced the winning architecture teams which means nothing has even been designed yet. I bet we are 18-24 months from breaking ground but there will probably be early infrastructure work that can get started once a concept has been approved.
Fargo wrote:

Have they even started the 9-gate Terminal 5 expansion? I keep hearing it was a pre-approved project, but I don’t think construction has started yet. When will they break ground?


In the Crains article that I linked above, the author paraphrases Commissioner Rhee and says "the city now has its hands full building nine new gates in T-5 and will return to the [hotel] issue later.."

I'm not exactly sure what Rhee is referring to, as I have to see any meaningful progress at T5 either, but perhaps they are finalizing some plans and getting read to start?

Hopefully breaking ground sooner than 18-24 months since the expansion is already 3 years behind schedule. Believe it or not, at a press conference announcing the $300m T5 expansion back in 2016, Ginger Evans said that the new T5 gates would open in 2019... :o :banghead:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loc ... story.html
 
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United787
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:39 pm

[quote="ORDfan"][/quote]

I agree but we haven't heard one peep about an architect even being hired for the T5 expansion. You would think if an architect was hired and there was a design, we would hear about it. Of course, we had no idea what the "L" stinger gates were going to look like until they got built and still don't even know who designed it.
 
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kordcj
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:12 am

kngkyle wrote:
August traffic statistics are finally available: https://www.flychicago.com/SiteCollecti ... UMMARY.pdf

Another record-breaking month.

Highest total passenger volumes in ORD history:

1. August 2018 - 8,100,976
2. July 2018 - 8,067,100
3. June 2018 - 7,720,301
4. August 2017 - 7,651,783
5. July 2008 - 7,584,677

Highest international passenger volumes in ORD history:

1. July 2018 - 1,416,263
2. August 2018 - 1,390,704
3. June 2018 - 1,358,284
4. July 2017 - 1,299,803
5. August 2017 - 1,272,151

Highest domestic passenger volumes in ORD history:

1. August 2018 - 6,710,272
2. July 2018 - 6,650,837
3. July 2008 - 6,438,311
4. August 2017 - 6,379,632
5. June 2018 - 6,362,017

Years with the highest average passenger load per airport operation: (indicative of less RJs, more upgauging)

1. 2018 - 93.2
2. 2017 - 92.0
3. 2016 - 90.3
4. 2015 - 87.9
5. 2007 - 82.2

At current growth rate (+5%), ORD will end the year with around 83.8M passengers.


That just warms my heart. Glad to see the airport is finally in a mode of real growth vs the last decade of 0-2% we’ve seen.
The most obvious proof for intelligent life in the universe is that they haven't tried to contact us.
 
atcs89
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:38 am

20 Busiest US airports by operations Jan 1, 2018 - October 31st 2018....
ORD 754,427
ATL 750,813
LAX 592,265
DFW 557,269
DEN 504,722
CLT 459,389
LAS 454,004
SFO 394,732
IAH 388,043
JFK 385,752
EWR 377,529
SEA 368,308
BOS 361,251
PHX 360,720
MIA 343,680
MSP 343,629
DTW 331,166
PHL 316,310
LGA 308,629
MCO 293,507
 
TheKennady2
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:43 am

atcs89 wrote:
20 Busiest US airports by operations Jan 1, 2018 - October 31st 2018....
ORD 754,427
ATL 750,813
LAX 592,265
DFW 557,269
DEN 504,722
CLT 459,389
LAS 454,004
SFO 394,732
IAH 388,043
JFK 385,752
EWR 377,529
SEA 368,308
BOS 361,251
PHX 360,720
MIA 343,680
MSP 343,629
DTW 331,166
PHL 316,310
LGA 308,629
MCO 293,507



Good for ORD, i hope it holds on for the next 2 months. ORD has less gates than ATL, has not seen any Major terminal expansions(besides the stinger gates) in over 20 years. ORD has more inclimate weather than ATL, and has MDW on the southside that takes away potential traffic. As well as being a dual hub for 2 major carriers . All this and ORD is still the supreme Airport for Aircraft Movements.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:46 pm

Because of the ongoing troubles with the RR power plants, including those on Norwegian 787's, Wamos Air's A330's will be seen on the field and in the skies around O'Hare "at least through Jan. 12. ...The cabin crew on these flights will consist of a mix of Norwegian Air employees and Wamos Air staff. Norwegian needs the Wamos Air staffers on board because of their greater familiarity with that particular Airbus aircraft, the Norwegian Air spokesman said."

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... j=84810321

...And on a completely different subject... On my way though O'Hare a week ago I noticed an ANA 773 parked at Terminal One's gates B-16 or 17, which I have never seen before. Is this why Lufti's A-350 flight to Munich has been departing from T-5? (previously discussed upthread).
 
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kordcj
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:55 pm

yeogeo wrote:
...And on a completely different subject... On my way though O'Hare a week ago I noticed an ANA 773 parked at Terminal One's gates B-16 or 17, which I have never seen before. Is this why Lufti's A-350 flight to Munich has been departing from T-5? (previously discussed upthread).

That’s interesting, I thought ANA was exclusive to C-20. Was it the NRT or HND flight? Isn’t the reason the A350 doesn’t come to T1 the same as the reason 787s don’t come? Wingspan is too large to clear the concourse B/C alley, and lack of widebody gates on the west side of C?
The most obvious proof for intelligent life in the universe is that they haven't tried to contact us.
 
nomorerjs
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:06 pm

AA may have cut China, but AV just started GUA, is about to start BOG, and NZ starts the 30th.

Until the new gates are built, ORD is limited on additional flights (unless at off-peak times). UA and AA have limited widebody space available, and peak hubs are full.

Upgauging and seasonal / weekend routes are about it for the next couple of years. Unless someone starts a new “moonlight shuttle.”
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:42 pm

kordcj wrote:
yeogeo wrote:
...And on a completely different subject... On my way though O'Hare a week ago I noticed an ANA 773 parked at Terminal One's gates B-16 or 17, which I have never seen before. Is this why Lufti's A-350 flight to Munich has been departing from T-5? (previously discussed upthread).

That’s interesting, I thought ANA was exclusive to C-20. Was it the NRT or HND flight? Isn’t the reason the A350 doesn’t come to T1 the same as the reason 787s don’t come? Wingspan is too large to clear the concourse B/C alley, and lack of widebody gates on the west side of C?


Can't tell you the whether its destination was HND or NRT... it was a late afternoon flight like mine, as I taxied past... but I know for a fact that the departures from that end of B don't need to pass through the alley as they access taxiway H directly.

Greetings from Prague!
yeogeo
 
jcwr56
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:16 pm

nomorerjs wrote:
AA may have cut China, but AV just started GUA, is about to start BOG, and NZ starts the 30th.

Until the new gates are built, ORD is limited on additional flights (unless at off-peak times). UA and AA have limited widebody space available, and peak hubs are full.

Upgauging and seasonal / weekend routes are about it for the next couple of years. Unless someone starts a new “moonlight shuttle.”


There's always room to add in another here and there.

S19 will be just as busy with some additional challenges.
 
jcwr56
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:23 pm

ORDfan wrote:
United787 wrote:
I believe the T5 expansion is under the O'Hare 21 umbrella. The City still hasn't announced the winning architecture teams which means nothing has even been designed yet. I bet we are 18-24 months from breaking ground but there will probably be early infrastructure work that can get started once a concept has been approved.
Fargo wrote:

Have they even started the 9-gate Terminal 5 expansion? I keep hearing it was a pre-approved project, but I don’t think construction has started yet. When will they break ground?


In the Crains article that I linked above, the author paraphrases Commissioner Rhee and says "the city now has its hands full building nine new gates in T-5 and will return to the [hotel] issue later.."

I'm not exactly sure what Rhee is referring to, as I have to see any meaningful progress at T5 either, but perhaps they are finalizing some plans and getting read to start?

Hopefully breaking ground sooner than 18-24 months since the expansion is already 3 years behind schedule. Believe it or not, at a press conference announcing the $300m T5 expansion back in 2016, Ginger Evans said that the new T5 gates would open in 2019... :o :banghead:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loc ... story.html



There's been progress made and then some. Remember it's just not the expansion they're dealing with. It's also dealing with the bag room, immigration facilities, adding hold rooms, a 2nd passenger check point, keeping enough ramp space available to park planes.

The logistics to keep the building operationally functional is critical and time consuming while planning this out.
 
Fargo
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:01 pm

jcwr56 wrote:
ORDfan wrote:
United787 wrote:
I believe the T5 expansion is under the O'Hare 21 umbrella. The City still hasn't announced the winning architecture teams which means nothing has even been designed yet. I bet we are 18-24 months from breaking ground but there will probably be early infrastructure work that can get started once a concept has been approved.
Fargo wrote:

Have they even started the 9-gate Terminal 5 expansion? I keep hearing it was a pre-approved project, but I don’t think construction has started yet. When will they break ground?


In the Crains article that I linked above, the author paraphrases Commissioner Rhee and says "the city now has its hands full building nine new gates in T-5 and will return to the [hotel] issue later.."

I'm not exactly sure what Rhee is referring to, as I have to see any meaningful progress at T5 either, but perhaps they are finalizing some plans and getting read to start?

Hopefully breaking ground sooner than 18-24 months since the expansion is already 3 years behind schedule. Believe it or not, at a press conference announcing the $300m T5 expansion back in 2016, Ginger Evans said that the new T5 gates would open in 2019... :o :banghead:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loc ... story.html



There's been progress made and then some. Remember it's just not the expansion they're dealing with. It's also dealing with the bag room, immigration facilities, adding hold rooms, a 2nd passenger check point, keeping enough ramp space available to park planes.

The logistics to keep the building operationally functional is critical and time consuming while planning this out.


Understandable, but just curious, why does it really take more than two years to plan everything out?

Not to be critical, but this and the rest of the O'Hare 21 projects are absolutely critical (and that's a big understatement) for the future of ORD and need to begin construction ASAP, so it is a bit frustrating to see the slow progress.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:00 am

American has announced a half-dozen new routes from O'Hare:

Allentown eff 02APR19 2 daily Embraer ERJ145 (Envoy Air)
Destin/Ft. Walton Beach eff 09MAR19 1 weekly Embraer E175 (Envoy Air)
Erie eff 03MAY19 1 daily Embraer ERJ145 (Envoy Air)
NW Florida Beaches eff 09MAR19 1 weekly CRJ700 (Skywest)
Pensacola eff 09MAR19 1 weekly Embraer E175 (Envoy Air)
State College eff 02APR19 2 daily Embraer ERJ145 (Envoy Air)

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-20181104
 
wn676
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:40 pm

yeogeo wrote:
kordcj wrote:
yeogeo wrote:
...And on a completely different subject... On my way though O'Hare a week ago I noticed an ANA 773 parked at Terminal One's gates B-16 or 17, which I have never seen before. Is this why Lufti's A-350 flight to Munich has been departing from T-5? (previously discussed upthread).

That’s interesting, I thought ANA was exclusive to C-20. Was it the NRT or HND flight? Isn’t the reason the A350 doesn’t come to T1 the same as the reason 787s don’t come? Wingspan is too large to clear the concourse B/C alley, and lack of widebody gates on the west side of C?


Can't tell you the whether its destination was HND or NRT... it was a late afternoon flight like mine, as I taxied past... but I know for a fact that the departures from that end of B don't need to pass through the alley as they access taxiway H directly.

Greetings from Prague!
yeogeo


This is due to the ongoing fuel line and hydrant pit work at C10, which should finish up in the next week or two.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
Planeboy17
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:49 pm

jcwr56 wrote:
nomorerjs wrote:
AA may have cut China, but AV just started GUA, is about to start BOG, and NZ starts the 30th.

Until the new gates are built, ORD is limited on additional flights (unless at off-peak times). UA and AA have limited widebody space available, and peak hubs are full.

Upgauging and seasonal / weekend routes are about it for the next couple of years. Unless someone starts a new “moonlight shuttle.”


There's always room to add in another here and there.

S19 will be just as busy with some additional challenges.

“Additional challenges” mean additional carriers?
 
Atlwarrior
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:38 pm

[threeid][/threeid]
sircygnus wrote:
For those interested in regaining a “busiest”, title August’s numbers were tough. ORD had under 1000 more movements than ATL, with 6355 movements to make up in the final four months of the year.


Atlanta is still way ahead in passenger numbers - so it will be a co-share title like the past.
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:39 pm

Planeboy17 wrote:
jcwr56 wrote:
There's always room to add in another [flight in T-5] here and there. S19 will be just as busy with some additional challenges.

“Additional challenges” mean additional carriers?


...or challenges due to construction? :crossfingers:
 
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United787
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:39 pm

Fargo wrote:
Understandable, but just curious, why does it really take more than two years to plan everything out?

Not to be critical, but this and the rest of the O'Hare 21 projects are absolutely critical (and that's a big understatement) for the future of ORD and need to begin construction ASAP, so it is a bit frustrating to see the slow progress.


You can't start building something without knowing what you are building. All we have now is some very conceptual master plans that show general locations and sizes of buildings. Once the City selects design teams (architects, structural engineers, mechanical engineers, lighting designers, etc. etc.), the design team will have to go through a lengthy design process that involves all of the interested parties, primarily the City and airlines. Once the design process (Design Development) is complete, the design team will develop the designs into a set of Construction Documents. These are extremely detailed plans, construction details and specifications that provide all of the information necessary to build the terminals. The general contractors will then use the Construction Documents to get bids for all of the work involved, which takes time in of itself. The documents will also be used for the permit submissions; even though this is a City project, they still need permits. Then, once the project is permitted and bids are awarded to contractors, they will order materials (also takes time) and start construction. Portions of these phases can and will overlap or run concurrent but there are limits to how much that can happen. Plus, this all has to be carefully orchestrated to minimize disruption to a very active airport.

A prime example of a project that started construction before designs were complete was Millennium Park. They had started building the underground parking garage without having a design completed for the park that was going on top. They had a concept and made lots of assumptions but it was only after construction started that Mayor Daley started pushing to do some more unique things on top. So there were about 10 different projects designed for the park on top, many of which required structural changes to the parking garage that was just completed or still in progress. This caused the project to be delayed and project costs to shoot up from $150 million to $475 million (317%)! Of course, the project has become a major tourist attraction and probably paid for itself but it was very poorly planned which made it more expensive than it should have been. I think some of the quality suffered and is starting to show. Also, the continuity of design is lacking since it was done so piecemeal, it could have been done so much better.
 
ORDfan
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:49 pm

Had a friend pass through ORD over the weekend and used the new car rental facility - said it works like a charm and looks great.

On another note, while everyone on here has gotten used to calling it the CONRAC, is the building now officially being called the "Multi-Modal Facility" ? Seems that a lot of the articles in the past week have been referring to it as the MMF, and google maps now shows it as such well.

Image

https://www.google.com/maps/search/o'ha ... a=!3m1!4b1
 
Fargo
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:47 am

United787 wrote:
Fargo wrote:
Understandable, but just curious, why does it really take more than two years to plan everything out?

Not to be critical, but this and the rest of the O'Hare 21 projects are absolutely critical (and that's a big understatement) for the future of ORD and need to begin construction ASAP, so it is a bit frustrating to see the slow progress.


You can't start building something without knowing what you are building. All we have now is some very conceptual master plans that show general locations and sizes of buildings. Once the City selects design teams (architects, structural engineers, mechanical engineers, lighting designers, etc. etc.), the design team will have to go through a lengthy design process that involves all of the interested parties, primarily the City and airlines. Once the design process (Design Development) is complete, the design team will develop the designs into a set of Construction Documents. These are extremely detailed plans, construction details and specifications that provide all of the information necessary to build the terminals. The general contractors will then use the Construction Documents to get bids for all of the work involved, which takes time in of itself. The documents will also be used for the permit submissions; even though this is a City project, they still need permits. Then, once the project is permitted and bids are awarded to contractors, they will order materials (also takes time) and start construction. Portions of these phases can and will overlap or run concurrent but there are limits to how much that can happen. Plus, this all has to be carefully orchestrated to minimize disruption to a very active airport.

A prime example of a project that started construction before designs were complete was Millennium Park. They had started building the underground parking garage without having a design completed for the park that was going on top. They had a concept and made lots of assumptions but it was only after construction started that Mayor Daley started pushing to do some more unique things on top. So there were about 10 different projects designed for the park on top, many of which required structural changes to the parking garage that was just completed or still in progress. This caused the project to be delayed and project costs to shoot up from $150 million to $475 million (317%)! Of course, the project has become a major tourist attraction and probably paid for itself but it was very poorly planned which made it more expensive than it should have been. I think some of the quality suffered and is starting to show. Also, the continuity of design is lacking since it was done so piecemeal, it could have been done so much better.


I agree with what you are saying in general, but my point (and I didn't really make it clear) was they should have mapped out a fair amount of the design during the negotiations with the airlines and not announced the lease/deal until they have more finalized plans. This is so they could begin construction as soon as possible. The Global Terminal I can understand why they want to take their time, but the Terminal 5 expansion is not quite as complex and could probably be done a bit quicker. This would allow the airport to consolidate all of the non-UA/AA domestic carriers in Terminal 5 so they can then focus on the meat of the project (the global terminal).

Also, while that was a fair example about Millennium Park, it is somewhat of an apples to oranges comparison to the situation here. Millennium Park is a tourist attraction that is nice, but is not anywhere near as critical of a piece of the economy as ORD. ORD is absolutely critical to not only Chicago's economy, but to the whole of US/North American/Global air travel. What happens at ORD can have ripple effects across the country and continent. Given the magnitude of ORD's influence, projects like O'Hare 21 (that should have been done 15-20 years ago) really cannot afford to wait any longer.

And also, there is no way this will be done by 2026 at the current rate. If they wanted to hit that target, they would have needed to break ground the minute the ink dried on the lease deal.
 
chidino
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:06 am

I'll cut to the chase: "The bond prospectus provides some of the first details of the construction timing of the project. Work on terminal 5, which includes adding eight gates for 28 total, will run from 2019 to 2021. This will allow Delta Air Lines, the fourth largest carrier at O'Hare, to move to the facility and vacate space in terminal 2 that is slated for demolition.

Work on two satellite concourses to the west of United's operation in terminal 1 will begin in 2020. Satellite 2 will be built first opening in 2023, likely to accommodate the United Express operation that must vacate terminal 2 before the space can be demolished. Satellite 1, which will be connected to the existing concourse C, work will begin in 2021 and complete in 2024.

The central piece of the project, the O'Hare global terminal, will not begin for another five years. The facility, which will be built on the site of existing terminal 2, will include a new international arrivals facility that will serve both American and United.

"The project is anticipated to consolidate United, American and their respective alliance operations into facilities operated at the global terminal, significantly reducing the number of passengers required to connect between the domestic terminal complex and terminal 5," says Brown.

Other works include adding three gates to the five-gate concourse L expansion that American opened earlier this year by 2022, and building a new underground automated people mover connecting the global terminal with the two new satellite concourses by 2024." Edward Russell, FlightGlobal.com https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/chicago-ohare-outlines-timing-of-decade-long-expans-453321/

Carole Brown, the city's finance director, did a web-based roadshow for the initial $1.8 billion in bonds last Friday. Still trying to find anything more about it. (When in doubt, follow the money, as always.)
Last edited by chidino on Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
chidino
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:17 am

Other details:

* DL does move after T5 expansion (~2021) but other carriers (AS, NK, B6) will not move until everything's complete
* "Preferential" gate assignments (as opposed to leases) begin 2021 (wondering who defines "preferential"??)
* Three additional gates onto N side of L stinger open 2022

(IGWS all dates are alleged)
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:30 am

No surprises, frankly, but its great to have a schedule. Thanks for the updates, chidino!
 
chidino
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:00 am

The prospectus itself and the roadshow presentation are available here: https://www.cityofchicagoinvestors.com/ohareairportbonds/bond-offerings/i1411 (registration required, not a city site)

Slide 30 of the roadshow is more precise in projected dates (and again, please, not my dates). Starts strong, but that's existing facilities:
3Q 2020 Completion of 9C/27C
1Q 2021 T5 re-purposing and core expansion (DL would then move) plus L stinger with 3 additional gates, up to 16,000 sq ft
4Q 2021 Completion of extension 9R/27L
3Q 2023 Satellite 2 and tunnel completion
2025 Satellite 1
and the "Completion of OGT" is as far out as the slide would allow Image
 
jcwr56
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:26 pm

chidino wrote:
Other details:

* DL does move after T5 expansion (~2021) but other carriers (AS, NK, B6) will not move until everything's complete
* "Preferential" gate assignments (as opposed to leases) begin 2021 (wondering who defines "preferential"??)
* Three additional gates onto N side of L stinger open 2022

(IGWS all dates are alleged)


Correction to the above. Effective May 12, 2018 Preferential gating already started. The first reapportion of preferential gates will take place in April 2021.

Its defined in the lease what a preferential gate is and how the process takes place. It's already been done for Summer 2018, Winter 2018 and just recently Summer 2019.

There's three categories of gates at ORD; Preferential, Domestic Common Use and International Common Use.
 
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United787
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:23 pm

Thank you chidino. Nice to finally see the sequencing and schedule for the first parts. It is generally what we expected. Looking forward to seeing who the winning architectural teams will be!
 
Galvan316
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:15 pm

Does anyone know how well Ethiopian is doing to ORD?
ORD and MDW is where youll find Me!
 
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kordcj
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:34 pm

jcwr56 wrote:
chidino wrote:
Other details:

* DL does move after T5 expansion (~2021) but other carriers (AS, NK, B6) will not move until everything's complete
* "Preferential" gate assignments (as opposed to leases) begin 2021 (wondering who defines "preferential"??)
* Three additional gates onto N side of L stinger open 2022

(IGWS all dates are alleged)


Correction to the above. Effective May 12, 2018 Preferential gating already started. The first reapportion of preferential gates will take place in April 2021.

Its defined in the lease what a preferential gate is and how the process takes place. It's already been done for Summer 2018, Winter 2018 and just recently Summer 2019.

There's three categories of gates at ORD; Preferential, Domestic Common Use and International Common Use.


Well now this is exciting! Did anyone lose gates or gain gates? Is there somewhere for the general public to see the gate allocations? I do wonder if this is driving AA’s newly announced routes, they were probably about to get the common gate slap down.
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Fargo
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:19 pm

chidino wrote:
I'll cut to the chase: "The bond prospectus provides some of the first details of the construction timing of the project. Work on terminal 5, which includes adding eight gates for 28 total, will run from 2019 to 2021. This will allow Delta Air Lines, the fourth largest carrier at O'Hare, to move to the facility and vacate space in terminal 2 that is slated for demolition.

Work on two satellite concourses to the west of United's operation in terminal 1 will begin in 2020. Satellite 2 will be built first opening in 2023, likely to accommodate the United Express operation that must vacate terminal 2 before the space can be demolished. Satellite 1, which will be connected to the existing concourse C, work will begin in 2021 and complete in 2024.

The central piece of the project, the O'Hare global terminal, will not begin for another five years. The facility, which will be built on the site of existing terminal 2, will include a new international arrivals facility that will serve both American and United.

"The project is anticipated to consolidate United, American and their respective alliance operations into facilities operated at the global terminal, significantly reducing the number of passengers required to connect between the domestic terminal complex and terminal 5," says Brown.

Other works include adding three gates to the five-gate concourse L expansion that American opened earlier this year by 2022, and building a new underground automated people mover connecting the global terminal with the two new satellite concourses by 2024." Edward Russell, FlightGlobal.com https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/chicago-ohare-outlines-timing-of-decade-long-expans-453321/

Carole Brown, the city's finance director, did a web-based roadshow for the initial $1.8 billion in bonds last Friday. Still trying to find anything more about it. (When in doubt, follow the money, as always.)


Excellent, construction begins next year!

I thought the people mover wasn't going to be put in until the airport hits 100 million passengers? Maybe he means the pedestrian tunnel will be built.

I wonder if Delta will build a new Sky Club as part of the Terminal 5 expansion?
 
chidino
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:35 am

Fargo wrote:

Excellent, construction begins next year!

I thought the people mover wasn't going to be put in until the airport hits 100 million passengers? Maybe he means the pedestrian tunnel will be built.

I wonder if Delta will build a new Sky Club as part of the Terminal 5 expansion?


Q1: Yeah, mistake on the FlightGlobal article. You're right. He apparently dropped "tunnel that will eventually accommodate" from his APM mention.
Q2. Yes. As part of the core expansion (man, the planners love the word "core"), T5 will gain a SkyClub in that push out to the SW at the bend. I saw it denoted once on a tentative map and promised as "big" but cannot remember where I saw it -- sorry. It had to do with coverage of Delta's signing the lease agreement.
 
jcwr56
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:41 am

chidino wrote:
Fargo wrote:

Excellent, construction begins next year!

I thought the people mover wasn't going to be put in until the airport hits 100 million passengers? Maybe he means the pedestrian tunnel will be built.

I wonder if Delta will build a new Sky Club as part of the Terminal 5 expansion?


Q1: Yeah, mistake on the FlightGlobal article. You're right. He apparently dropped "tunnel that will eventually accommodate" from his APM mention.
Q2. Yes. As part of the core expansion (man, the planners love the word "core"), T5 will gain a SkyClub in that push out to the SW at the bend. I saw it denoted once on a tentative map and promised as "big" but cannot remember where I saw it -- sorry. It had to do with coverage of Delta's signing the lease agreement.


Q2 - will be near M7- M8/9 area departures level as part of the build out. Some are wondering if you take the AF lounge and incorporate that within it.
 
ORDfan
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:10 pm

The city has narrowed down the list of architectural firms for the expansion down to 5, from the initial 12 that submitted.

Sentimentally, I'm a little bummed Jahn didn't make the cut, as I would've loved to have seen his refreshed take on a second act at O'hare. Also, a little surprised that Vinoly and Studio Fuksas did not make the cut either, as they specialize in big public works projects, in a way that Studio Gang really doesn't.

Nonetheless, ORD simply cannot lose with this roster of finalists - all top-tier, world-class shops. Personally, I'm rooting for either Calatrava or Foster Partners. I think Fentress does really good work (I love ICN), but it's the least avant-garde of the bunch. I'm assuming since Jahn did not make the final cut, the city will want to push the envelope artistically. SOM more than capable in that regard too.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/col ... story.html
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:11 pm

An article in the Chicago Business Journal by Lewis Lazare about the delayed official opening of the multimodel facility (IMO, a tempest in a teapot), he makes passing mention of something that I have not heard before:

"The ATS upgrades were scheduled to done by early spring of 2019. But the multimodal section on the flychicago website now says modernization of the ATA will be completed by the fall of 2019." :o

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... j=84869071
 
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United787
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:24 pm

Thanks for sharing ORDfan!

I found the last two paragraphs interesting:

"Each of the finalists will create an architectural model of its expansion plan. The models will be displayed throughout the city, officials said.

Mayor Rahm Emanuel, who has said that selecting an architect for the expansion is a top priority before he leaves office next spring, is expected to formally announce the finalists Wednesday at a ribbon-cutting ceremony for another project at O’Hare."

It is sounds like the finalists will be competing in a design competition. I wonder if the 12 original firms have already submitted designs which helped them narrow down the list to 5 OR will the 5 finalists submit designs now that the list is narrowed?

I assume (and hope) this is a paid competition, I hate seeing municipalities taking advantage of architectural firms with pro bono design competitions.
Last edited by United787 on Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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United787
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:29 pm

yeogeo wrote:
An article in the Chicago Business Journal by Lewis Lazare about the delayed official opening of the multimodel facility (IMO, a tempest in a teapot), he makes passing mention of something that I have not heard before:

"The ATS upgrades were scheduled to done by early spring of 2019. But the multimodal section on the flychicago website now says modernization of the ATA will be completed by the fall of 2019." :o

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... j=84869071


I would bet the upgrades were originally planned to be completed in conjunction with the opening of the multi-modal (CONRAC) facility, this Fall. I wonder what happened? The City royally screwed up here and they seem to be trying to shove it under the rug... where is the press here?

Interesting related story...

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loc ... story.html
 
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United787
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:25 pm

Clarification. I e-mailed Blair Kamin and he said that Phase 1 for the original 12 firms was just qualifications. Phase 2 for the 5 finalists will be the design competitions. I don't think we will see any designs until January at the earliest with a decision in the Spring...
 
chidino
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:54 am

Official opening, to accompany the winnowing of architectural firms announcement: Trib leading with "City opens $841 million parking and rental car facility at O'Hare International Airport" https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-biz-ohare-multi-modal-facility-20181107-story.html

City hired a good photographer...

Image
 
chidino
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:57 am

United787 wrote:
I assume (and hope) this is a paid competition, I hate seeing municipalities taking advantage of architectural firms with pro bono design competitions.


The SOQ phase (first 12) was unpaid, but now the five finalists (or "RFP respondents") get to wallow in 50K each. So, technically, they are getting paid, but (obviously) nowhere near their costs for this project.

There is this reference in the City's request: "The RFP process will be approximately 12 weeks in length from initial information distribution to jury interview process. (approximate 2-hour interview per team) Short-Listed respondents will be expected to provide at minimum plans, sections, renderings and electronic and physical models to best communicate the design concept and intent meeting the goals and objects of CDA." That's one timeline I'm hoping the city will use to its advantage (and extend if necessary.) It's not as if we get a do-over every few years.
 
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United787
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:25 pm

So I was poking around the RFQ and it appears it is only for the T2 and associated concourses. Considering T5 is scheduled for completion 2 years before the first concourse, the City must already have an architectural firm working on the T5 expansion. Seems odd that they aren’t sharing who the architect is or any designs. The T3 L expansion was built with no designs released to the public… odd…
 
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yeogeo
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:12 am

Chicago Department of Aviation has release a video touting the O'Hare 21 project to the general public using mostly previously published schematics. Still, pretty effective in quickly illustrating the proposed changes in store for O'Hare.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3BDU36fAnU
 
Fargo
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:42 am

Why will it take until Fall 2019 to finish the ATS upgrade? What is so complex about adding new cars and upgrading signals, sensors, etc, that takes a whole year and a half? It's not like they are tearing down the tracks and rebuilding them or anything.

I wonder what concessions will go into the Multi-modal building, and if a proper Metra train station will be built adjacent to the building eventually?
 
stlgph
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:56 am

Trust. It's more than just unscrewing a signal and putting in a new one. The whole system has to be pretty much be re-built on the inside from start to finish along the whole line, replacing technology from the 80s, which was probably based/designed from much older technology.
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kngkyle
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:15 am

stlgph wrote:
Trust. It's more than just unscrewing a signal and putting in a new one. The whole system has to be pretty much be re-built on the inside from start to finish along the whole line, replacing technology from the 80s, which was probably based/designed from much older technology.


Not really a good enough reason. The red line south was rebuilt from scratch in 5 months. Although the air train being offline inconveniences less people, the scope of the project is much smaller. It certainly shouldn't take 1.5 years imo. Not a good sign if this is the kind of urgency behind the O'Hare 21 plan.
 
stlgph
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:35 am

On the Red Line, tracks and the track bed was rebuilt, the CTA didn't go and entirely change the operating brains and technology driving the whole thing. That is what is going on here.

Based on the length of time for similar projects in other cities, 1.5 years sounds like a bargain, especially when compared to the needs of the NYC subway.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
ord787
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Re: Chicago Aviation News - 2018

Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:58 am

the ATS will be finish it upgrade around 1Q of 2019 but then it required the ATS to do the safety test run continuously for 6 months without any passenger/people on it that why it will be finish Fall 2019

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