chicawgo wrote:

ckfred wrote:

It's great that AA is placing emphasis on ORD-LGA, but back in the days of regulation, there were 3 shuttle-type operations, AA, TW, and UA. AA and UA ran flights from 6am to 8pm, leaving on the hour. TW flights left at 45 minutes past the hour, from 6:45 to 8:45.

Granted, AA got away from hourly service, probably within the last 10 or 15 years, when ORD went to the rolling hub.

It's great that AA will have dedicated gates at ORD for LGA departures. But, I don't recall seing LGA departures on H or K, much past gate 10. It seems like departures from the end of H or the end of K are for places like Tampa, Orange County, Orlando, or even San Francisco. The closer gates are for LGA, LAX, DFW, and BOS.

What do you mean they got away from hourly service? Over the past 10-15 years they’ve generally had MORE than hourly service - sometimes on the half hour. And always stayed mainline. UA had some years where almost all were regional.

For years, AA flights between ORD and LGA left on the hour. Then, AA scheduled flights at times other than the top of the hour. So, instead of 6, 7, 8, and 9, it might have been 6:00, 6:55, 8:10, and 9:15. While AA was running 15 or 16 round trips on weekdays, it wasn't service on the hour.

ckfred wrote:

Does anyone know when AA's new gates on L open? I had to drop off my wife today at ORD. The concourse appears to be close to done. Although, I always liked the view of the "odd" side of L, after driving past Terminal 3. Now, it's just a wall of the connector from the terminal to the concourse addition.

If what I have heard is correct, that the new L gates will lead to some Eagle gates elsewhere going back to mainline, which gates would return to mainline operations?

Some details about the L stinger gates here: https://thepointsguy.com/2017/09/aa-new ... n-chicago/

Opening is planned before the summer schedule starts this year, so within a few months.

Does anybody know when CDA will be uploading the Dec-2017 pax numbers for ORD and MDW? Appreciate any insights.

source: https://www.facebook.com/FHPaschen/post ... 8787787274

Does anyone know if DL. was able to get anymore gates on E for the near future?
Thanks

The City of Chicago AT Midway could lower Cicero Ave at 55st with a bridge then extend the terminal and 22L over the bridged area. Lower and bridge at Central Ave. at 55st then extend 31C over that corner.

Flanker7 wrote:

KLM will reduce it's 747 operation to ORD. It will be a combination of 777 and 747 as of now. Shame but with the 747 fleet shrinking fast it's inevitable.

This is sad news to me. I knew it was coming and inevitable as you say, but still saddening once the realization sinks in. The KL 747 is as much as a staple at ORD as LH. As a kid, I remember flying out of ORD throughout the 90's and seeing rows of 747s: AF, LX, AI, LH, KE, JL, KL, NH, and even OZ in the early/mid 2000's, all used to send them. Now it's very clear the 77W reigns supreme.

kordcj wrote:

I think Chicago sends quite a bit of support to GYY every year. Wasn’t this compact agreement formed when the state threatened to take over ORD/MDW from the city? I’ll have to look it up, but I remember reading that this was whole idea was a way to block the state takeover. IL wants the tax money generated from ORD/MDW as Chicago currently gets it all. That tax revenue is also why IL continues to push Peotone, and why the city continues to promote Gary.

This is good news if true. I hope the cooperation with GYY continues and creates some real changes/improvements at GYY. I think the city and metro region have a lot to benefit from GYY growth. I'm from Illinois, and even lived downstate for many years, and I don't support Peotone - in fact, I don't know many folks that do.

iyerhari wrote:

Does anybody know when CDA will be uploading the Dec-2017 pax numbers for ORD and MDW? Appreciate any insights.

I checked today and still nothing. I'm not sure if they are released at a certain schedule or regular intervals, honestly? Seems like in my experience, the traffic data comes out around a month (3-5 weeks) after the month-in-question. We're up to 7 weeks now and still no Dec data...that is a bit surprising and late. Perhaps it takes longer to compile and finalize end of year data?

ORDfan][quote="iyerhari wrote:

Does anybody know when CDA will be uploading the Dec-2017 pax numbers for ORD and MDW? Appreciate any insights.

I checked today and still nothing. I'm not sure if they are released at a certain schedule or regular intervals, honestly? Seems like in my experience, the traffic data comes out around a month (3-5 weeks) after the month-in-question. We're up to 7 weeks now and still no Dec data...that is a bit surprising and late. Perhaps it takes longer to compile and finalize end of year data?

Based on my experience with BOS, most reports are completed in the 3rd week but it takes time to upload the files. I really do not know what's going on with ORD and MDW though - they are the only ones remaining in the category of very large and large hubs.

Finnair extending duration of seasonal service to Chicago this year.

Happy to hear this: sounds like bookings for Finnair have been strong enough for them to extend service (2x weekly) to December. So they'll be operating 9 months out of the year to ORD, with Q1/JFM the only months without AY tails at T5.

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... icago.html

ORDfan wrote:

Finnair extending duration of seasonal service to Chicago this year.

Happy to hear this: sounds like bookings for Finnair have been strong enough for them to extend service (2x weekly) to December. So they'll be operating 9 months out of the year to ORD, with Q1/JFM the only months without AY tails at T5.

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... icago.html

The article has a small mistake - AY will operate to ORD daily in S18 instead of 5x weekly.

Speaking of Gary (GYY): Gary airport approves runway rehab, customs facility work (courtesy of NWI Times)

GARY — The Gary/Chicago International Airport Authority awarded a $7.9 million contract Friday for a runway rehabilitation project that will rebuild more than 4,000 feet of the main runway.
...
The rehabilitation work will include replacement of the current asphalt surface with concrete. The project will require closure of the main runway for 21 days, Ross told the airport's board. The closure is planned to begin in mid-April.

That's pretty quick work. My guess is that the concrete runway will be able to handle heavier airplanes.

Here's an in-depth article in the Trib that claims the city is close to reaching a deal with UA and AA about ORD terminal expansion, with an interview with Ginger Evans.

Synopsis: "Terminals 1, 3, and 5 would be renovated, while two new satellite concourses would be constructed to the west of the existing terminals and connected to the new Global Terminal by an underground pedestrian tunnel."

Furthermore, if all goes as planned, ORD will be the USA's first "Global Alliance Hub" where airlines shares terminals based on their alliance.

Very exciting times ahead. Kudos to Ms. Evans and her team for all the hard work they've done over the past three years to get this far. Look forward to seeing this project and details finalized very soon!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... story.html

ORDfan wrote:

Here's an in-depth article in the Trib that claims the city is close to reaching a deal with UA and AA about ORD terminal expansion, with an interview with Ginger Evans.

Synopsis: "Terminals 1, 3, and 5 would be renovated, while two new satellite concourses would be constructed to the west of the existing terminals and connected to the new Global Terminal by an underground pedestrian tunnel."

Furthermore, if all goes as planned, ORD will be the USA's first "Global Alliance Hub" where airlines shares terminals based on their alliance.

Very exciting times ahead. Kudos to Ms. Evans and her team for all the hard work they've done over the past three years to get this far. Look forward to seeing this project and details finalized very soon!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... story.html

Crain's had a similar article (http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/ ... ut-to-land).

A few interesting points were: (1) still in negotiations of whether the AA stinger gates will count towards the new gates or not; (2) different lease terms for airlines; (3) this is supposed to be done by 2026. Also, including the stinger gates, 30-34 new gates.

This should probably receive its own thread.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/ ... al-planned

Sounds promising.
Love this line from the Tribune article:

“My boss, the mayor, has this thing: ‘I don’t just want O’Hare to be bigger, it has to be the best,’ and this is one of the ways we’re going to leapfrog over the other U.S. international terminals,” Evans said.

From the Tribune article in post #163: "In January 2016, Emanuel rebooted the airport expansion plans with... a $1.3 billion deal to build O’Hare’s sixth and final east-west runway, de-icing pads to allow planes to take off more quickly and new taxiways to speed up the pace of planes going to and from far-flung gates. The new runway is expected to open in 2020 while the de-icing pads will go into operation this year, city officials said."

Anyone know where on the field these about to open de-icing pads are located? This is the first I've heard of them.

yeo

yeogeo wrote:

From the Tribune article in post #163: "In January 2016, Emanuel rebooted the airport expansion plans with... a $1.3 billion deal to build O’Hare’s sixth and final east-west runway, de-icing pads to allow planes to take off more quickly and new taxiways to speed up the pace of planes going to and from far-flung gates. The new runway is expected to open in 2020 while the de-icing pads will go into operation this year, city officials said."

Anyone know where on the field these about to open de-icing pads are located? This is the first I've heard of them.

yeo

I believe the pad is just north of 28R on the west side. From runway 33 toward taxiway BB.

I picked up my wife at ORD last week, taking a slightly circuitous route to the cell phone lot. I exited 190 at Mannheim Rd. north and then looped around on Bessie Coleman Dr. to the cell phone lot. The signage for the cell phone lot is horrible. I have enough trouble finding it in the middle of the day, let alone at night.

Needless to say, the almost-finished rental car garage took me by surprise. The thing is huge, especially when compared to rental car garages at other busy airports like IAH and PHX.

But, I've got a couple of questions.

A. What are the City's plans for the renal car lots, once the rental car garage opens? It seems to me that if economy parking is expanded, they will need another station on the ATS. Otherwise, there will be some long bus rides to and from the station.

B. Will the ATS be the sole means of traveling between the terminals and the rental car garage? Considering that trains can be very full, especially at rush hours on the busier travel days, transporting rental car customers to and from the garage will make trains even more crowded. Plus, hauling bags from the baggage claim to bridge level is a headache.

One last point. How busy will Bessie Coleman be, when they start shifting cars from the lots to the garage?

The tribune article mentioned United is building a new gate later this year. Anyone know where or what this gate will be? This is my first time hearing anything about it.

I know the garage is on Mannheim. I took Mannheim to where I used to turn right for the cell phone lot, turned left, and then turned left on Bessie Coleman. The signage for the current cell phone lot is so bad and so hard to find in the dark that taking the long way on Mannheim cuts down on the frustration of either going past the lot and trying to find a place to turn around or following a small dark sedan, only to realize that I'm in the Uber/Lyft hold area.

ckfred wrote:

B. Will the ATS be the sole means of traveling between the terminals and the rental car garage? Considering that trains can be very full, especially at rush hours on the busier travel days, transporting rental car customers to and from the garage will make trains even more crowded. Plus, hauling bags from the baggage claim to bridge level is a headache.

I have a hard time believing the CONRAC will be served exclusively by the ATS. Some passengers will no doubt be looking to connect to the facility via bus, if nothing but out shear habit. I'm sure the rental car companies will oblige; if anything, it will be easier to use joint buses. Additionally, many renderings of the project clearing show buses and the covered bus ramp below the ATS.

One of the contractors for the project, JWI, has some good photos of the CONRAC construction and the ATS expansion on their website.

https://www.jwincorporated.com/portfolio/

jbs2886 wrote:

A few interesting points were: (1) still in negotiations of whether the AA stinger gates will count towards the new gates or not;

If United is trying to prevent American from getting more gates by counting the stinger gates, that makes it sound like there is already a shortage of gates in the new plans. Which is ridiculous. Why not add an additional western concourse so both United and AA get as many gates as they want? Frankly, they should be planning for as many gates as UA & AA are willing to commit to *plus* some extra for growth.

OTOH, maybe this is a shrewd negotiating tactic by the city: if the project is expected to be done in 2026 but the next set of lease negotiations is in 2023, then deliberately creating a shortage of gates in phase I ensures that the airlines will commit to a much larger phase II to be started immediately. If so, well played Ms. Evans!!

ckfred wrote:

Needless to say, the almost-finished rental car garage took me by surprise. The thing is huge, especially when compared to rental car garages at other busy airports like IAH and PHX.

The facility is about 3mil sq. ft. For comparison, O'hare's entire terminal complex comprises 4.3mil sq ft. So yes, it's pretty huge! Also, the garage can be expanded to 9 stories. So depending on usage, it could get a lot bigger in a few years

muralir wrote:

ckfred wrote:

Needless to say, the almost-finished rental car garage took me by surprise. The thing is huge, especially when compared to rental car garages at other busy airports like IAH and PHX.

The facility is about 3mil sq. ft. For comparison, O'hare's entire terminal complex comprises 4.3mil sq ft. So yes, it's pretty huge! Also, the garage can be expanded to 9 stories. So depending on usage, it could get a lot bigger in a few years

That sounds a lot like the Blue Cross/Blue Shield building in the Loop, near the Prudential Building. It was built to a certain height. Then, when more space was needed, they added more floors.

But, the question I have is what the City plans to do with all of the rental car lots. If there are development plans, any building(s) would have to be low, because they would be under the approach to 27L

I believe the bus ramp at CONRAC is supposed to be for Pace buses.

kngkyle wrote:

source: https://www.facebook.com/FHPaschen/post ... 8787787274

Thanks for the pic.

Is that an Allegiant jet at the gate?

AA must chomping at the bits to get all of L to themselves when everyone else moves to the expanded T5.

That’s actually a Spirit 320. It does look like Allegiant from that angle though.
Anyone know why WOW has a 321 parked at ORD? It seems like it’s been there for a couple of weeks now but I don’t see any mx action occurring when I drive by it. Did they ground some of their 321s?

Planeboy17 wrote:

That’s actually a Spirit 320. It does look like Allegiant from that angle though.
Anyone know why WOW has a 321 parked at ORD? It seems like it’s been there for a couple of weeks now but I don’t see any mx action occurring when I drive by it. Did they ground some of their 321s?

I could be dead wrong, but maybe it is due to the grounding of certain A320/21 acft with PW GTF engines from the recent EASA AD that issued. I haven't been following that story though, so who knows.

drdisque wrote:

I believe the bus ramp at CONRAC is supposed to be for Pace buses.

I don't think it's exclusively for Pace buses. The official city presentation on CONRAC indicates that hotel, parking, and rental car shuttles/buses, as well as "regional bus traffic" will all service the facility.

http://multimodalfacilityrfp.flychicago ... 0Final.pdf

kngkyle wrote:

source: https://www.facebook.com/FHPaschen/post ... 8787787274

Looking at this more closely now, and I'm not really crazy about the walkway to the L pier. It doesn't look well-integrated and it looks to me like it doesn't have enough glass; I would've preferred an all glass wall on both sides of the walkway to the gates.

The southern-most walkway section linking directly to T3 looks like it doesn't even have any glass at all?! Is that correct? Eek. This looks like some Heathrow Terminal 3 stuff. Ugh bummer....

The lack of glass has something to do with the walkway passing near a fueling facility that requires a certain firewall...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-o ... story.html

Interesting article about long-haul flights from ORD...

Does any one know why DL. gave up L and moved to E ?
Were they forced to by the city or were they promised something better ?

Capn wrote:

Does any one know why DL. gave up L and moved to E ?
Were they forced to by the city or were they promised something better ?

The reason for the decision was because of the DL/NW merger. I don’t recall what the reasons for choosing E over L but the city did not force them out. DL decided to move to E but I don’t recall why. I think they might have had more gates and a larger club but honestly I can’t recall.

Yes, basically NW's gate holdings in E were large enough to accommodate the entire operation, while DL had leased off a bunch of their gates on L to AA and AA didn't want to give them back, so they couldn't have consolidated in L until those leases were up.

Just found this. Looks like the city puts out an Airport Newsletter...didn't realize that they were doing this, but apparently the first one was released back in the Fall. I remember back in the 90's they used to have print versions of a newsletter that were available at the information booths. Happy to see them come back.

Some interesting things to note:

-Slightly different renderings (are these the latest??) of the terminal expansions

-Final 2017 passenger totals on Page 3. Although December data has still not published on flychicago.com. Record year for ORD just shy of 80m and 2.4% y-o-y growth; ORD+MDW combined over 102m.

-New destinations published on the final page.

-Also interesting to note that according to the FAA, delays at ORD haven fallen 78% over the last decade. I believe it; I think MDW is worse for delays today than ORD today.


https://indd.adobe.com/view/280a32de-51 ... 51bef43c63

ORDfan wrote:

Just found this. Looks like the city puts out an Airport Newsletter...didn't realize that they were doing this, but apparently the first one was released back in the Fall. I remember back in the 90's they used to have print versions of a newsletter that were available at the information booths. Happy to see them come back.
P
Some interesting things to note:

-Slightly different renderings (are these the latest??) of the terminal expansions

-Final 2017 passenger totals on Page 3. Although December data has still not published on flychicago.com. Record year for ORD just shy of 80m and 2.4% y-o-y growth; ORD+MDW combined over 102m.

-New destinations published on the final page.

-Also interesting to note that according to the FAA, delays at ORD haven fallen 78% over the last decade. I believe it; I think MDW is worse for delays today than ORD today.


https://indd.adobe.com/view/280a32de-51 ... 51bef43c63

Interesting, the rendering seems to confirm that the city will be moving the steam plant and building 3 gates on the north side of the new stinger pier on the L concourse.

chicawgo wrote:

Looks like 2018 is shaping up to be a big year. Movements and pax up almost 4% in January alone according to just posted CDA data. And international cargo up 50%!!

Might be helpful to post the link, which is: http://www.flychicago.com/SiteCollectio ... UMMARY.pdf

Domestic air carrier operations are up 11.5% with commuter down 16.73%, but international operations are down 2.68%. Passenger volume is positive for both domestic (3.68%) and international (4.39%).

International cargo operations were up about 50% but actual tonnage was only 11.47% (yes, still good - but "up 50%" isn't the whole picture). Domestic cargo tonnage was actually down 6.58%

Edit to add that MDW is OK: Air carrier operations down 1.28% domestically and down 0.32% international. Passenger volume domestic is up 4.37% but international is down 5.85%.

jbs2886 wrote:

chicawgo wrote:

Looks like 2018 is shaping up to be a big year. Movements and pax up almost 4% in January alone according to just posted CDA data. And international cargo up 50%!!

Might be helpful to post the link, which is: http://www.flychicago.com/SiteCollectio ... UMMARY.pdf

Domestic air carrier operations are up 11.5% with commuter down 16.73%, but international operations are down 2.68%. Passenger volume is positive for both domestic (3.68%) and international (4.39%).

International cargo operations were up about 50% but actual tonnage was only 11.47% (yes, still good - but "up 50%" isn't the whole picture). Domestic cargo tonnage was actually down 6.58%

Edit to add that MDW is OK: Air carrier operations down 1.28% domestically and down 0.32% international. Passenger volume domestic is up 4.37% but international is down 5.85%.

I wonder how much we will see the airport grow once the new gates as part of the expansion come online.

When is ORD going to get a flight (on any carrier) to TLV? I could be wrong, but I feel like that has to be one of the most significant holes in ORD's expansive international network.

I would be curious to know what airport you all think draws more from NW Indiana, making it difficult for GYY to retain regular passenger service: MDW or SBN? SBN is probably double the distance but with less traffic, maybe about the same or better most times of the day. Plus, less traffic means more predictable which is key for me when catching a flight.

Looks like LH has started A350 service today. Replacing the daily A340-600 with the A350-900 on MUC-ORD.

ADrum23 wrote:

When is ORD going to get a flight (on any carrier) to TLV? I could be wrong, but I feel like that has to be one of the most significant holes in ORD's expansive international network.

Have been surprised by this as well. There's been rumors of LY coming back for a few years now on this forum. Hopefully with their growing 787 fleet, that becomes a reality sooner than later.

United787 wrote:

I would be curious to know what airport you all think draws more from NW Indiana, making it difficult for GYY to retain regular passenger service: MDW or SBN? SBN is probably double the distance but with less traffic, maybe about the same or better most times of the day. Plus, less traffic means more predictable which is key for me when catching a flight.

I have family in Valpo and they almost always come back to Chicago. For their longer-haul flight via ORD the extra layover kind of negates the longer drive, and it really comes down to fare prices. It seems like SBN flights are consistently much more expensive from my own searching. Just one anecdote.

_AA_777_MAN wrote:

Looks like LH has started A350 service today. Replacing the daily A340-600 with the A350-900 on MUC-ORD.

Didn't see anything on the ORD facebook page but maybe something will get added in the next few days. Hopefully some ORD spotters will catch her soon too.

_AA_777_MAN wrote:

Looks like LH has started A350 service today. Replacing the daily A340-600 with the A350-900 on MUC-ORD.

Is this the first A350 service to ORD? Taking this flight in September and looking forward to it?

United787 wrote:

_AA_777_MAN wrote:

Looks like LH has started A350 service today. Replacing the daily A340-600 with the A350-900 on MUC-ORD.

Is this the first A350 service to ORD? Taking this flight in September and looking forward to it?

Did Finnair bring in the 350 last year, or am I mistaken?

United787 wrote:

_AA_777_MAN wrote:

Looks like LH has started A350 service today. Replacing the daily A340-600 with the A350-900 on MUC-ORD.

Is this the first A350 service to ORD? Taking this flight in September and looking forward to it?

Yes this is the first A350 service to ORD.