Will AS keep a VX heritage livery?

neomax · Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:57 am

Considering that AS is no stranger to special liveries, will they opt to maintain a PM livery on the A320 for VX, similar to what AA have done with a one-off A321 maintained in US Airways colors?

jubguy3 · Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:01 am

... why would we know?

AAvgeek744 · Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:04 am

They just received their joint AOC. Any heritage livery (which I don't see happening), is way too soon to speculate.

KLMatSJC · Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:17 am

They just painted over their own heritage scheme, so I doubt it.

nutsaboutplanes · Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:18 am

This may be a little more complicated with the Virgin branding complexities and the royalty issue that was discussed in previous merger threads. When AA merged with US, the US brand disappeared....that won’t be the case with Virgin as it is a worldwide brand used across industries and not owned by AAG. I would imagine that could hamper efforts to maintain a herritage aircraft.

skipness1E · Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:37 am

The new American own the US brand in the merger, Alaska would still need to pay Branson to use his branding and frankly, there’s no reason to do that. This sort of merger needs a clean slate ASAP. It would be like United flying a single B772 with “Continental” across the fuselage. Too contentious.

neomax · Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:04 am

skipness1E wrote:
The new American own the US brand in the merger, Alaska would still need to pay Branson to use his branding and frankly, there’s no reason to do that. This sort of merger needs a clean slate ASAP. It would be like United flying a single B772 with “Continental” across the fuselage. Too contentious.

For what it's worth, every UA aircraft is basically a retro CO livery.

KLDC10 · Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:37 am

skipness1E wrote:
The new American own the US brand in the merger, Alaska would still need to pay Branson to use his branding and frankly, there’s no reason to do that. This sort of merger needs a clean slate ASAP. It would be like United flying a single B772 with “Continental” across the fuselage. Too contentious.

I believe they have one Boeing 737-900 (N75436) flying around in a scheme like the one you just described. They also have a 'Stars and Bars'/'Friendship' A320, registered N475UA.

For Alaska, as you point out, the biggest obstacle towards a Virgin retrojet is that using the Virgin brand costs money. And, at the risk of incurring the wrath of fans of the airline, it doesn't really have much of a history to celebrate.

oldannyboy · Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:53 am

I actually hope not. VX was a fantastic, truly innovative brand. It's been killed, so let it rest in peace.

mjoelnir · Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:56 pm

Virgin America friends have to understand that Richard Branson tried to make it expensive for Alaska to keep the Virgin brand. So it is not at all strange for Alaska to get rid of it as fast as possible. I do not think we will see any retro liveries and all frames will be switched to Alaska liveries fast, all mentioning of Virgin stopping soon.
Considerations regarding the possibility of keeping the Virgin America brand alive under the ownership of Alaska were torpedoed by Richard Branson. Alaska bought the airline not the brand.

freakyrat · Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:28 pm

skipness1E wrote:
The new American own the US brand in the merger, Alaska would still need to pay Branson to use his branding and frankly, there’s no reason to do that. This sort of merger needs a clean slate ASAP. It would be like United flying a single B772 with “Continental” across the fuselage. Too contentious.

I had to do a double take last year when I saw a United 737 landing at LAX that still had the Continental branding on it. It wasn't the heritage jet either. I guess it was one that was eventually going to the desert.

jcwr56 · Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:39 pm

So it's not only the livery, but also counters, gates and anything else. I wonder what the time frame is before AS has to start paying royalties. It's not like everything I listed could be swapped out overnight.

jspams20 · Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:49 pm

freakyrat wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
The new American own the US brand in the merger, Alaska would still need to pay Branson to use his branding and frankly, there’s no reason to do that. This sort of merger needs a clean slate ASAP. It would be like United flying a single B772 with “Continental” across the fuselage. Too contentious.

I had to do a double take last year when I saw a United 737 landing at LAX that still had the Continental branding on it. It wasn't the heritage jet either. I guess it was one that was eventually going to the desert.

Impossible, all were repainted years ago.

mjoelnir · Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:17 pm

jcwr56 wrote:
So it's not only the livery, but also counters, gates and anything else. I wonder what the time frame is before AS has to start paying royalties. It's not like everything I listed could be swapped out overnight.

I can well imagine any sign of the Virgin America brand having disappeared by the end of this year.

NameOmitted · Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:27 pm

jcwr56 wrote:
So it's not only the livery, but also counters, gates and anything else. I wonder what the time frame is before AS has to start paying royalties. It's not like everything I listed could be swapped out overnight.

I was amazed at how quickly Delta dropped Northwest down the memory hole in MSP. Within a month, there was not even viable ground handling equipment with a NW on it.

Branson is accruing disgruntled enough to hire an army of lawyers with cameras to fan out across America the day after AS claims they are not using the brand to look for anything to prove his brand is somehow will bring used.

MSPbrandon · Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:23 pm

How much "Heritage" does VX have? .....

None I would say.

KGRB · Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:37 pm

MSPbrandon wrote:
How much "Heritage" does VX have? .....

None I would say.

I would agree. Besides the royalty issue that above posters mentioned, VX really hasn't been around all that long. Other than airline nerds like us, I doubt very many people in the general public will care about or even remember the Virgin America brand. Contrast that with TWA, Pan Am, Northwest, and Continental, all of which are remembered and loved by many. Only two of those - TWA and Continental - are represented on a heritage livery.

gunsontheroof · Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:47 pm

MSPbrandon wrote:
How much "Heritage" does VX have? .....

None I would say.

The airline didn't even last a decade and the brand is still well-represented around the globe. Considering the fact that AS has considerable branding issues to deal with outside of their (current) core markets, I'd be surprised to see any nod to VX down the road, let alone tomorrow. The Jet America retrojet will surface first.

timf · Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:20 pm

The two "More to Love" aircraft will probably be the only reference to Virgin America going forward.

TWA302 · Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:49 pm

jubguy3 wrote:
... why would we know?

You might not know, but with the bajillion members here, someone is bound to know or this forum would not exist. Thanks for the helpful and productive comment. :roll:

EA CO AS · Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:58 pm

jcwr56 wrote:
It's not like everything I listed could be swapped out overnight.

Just watch what happens overnight on the evening of 4/24 to 4/25; all counter and gate signage, digital displays, etc. will have the VX branding disappear overnight and be replaced by AS branding.

Aside from the aircraft, all VX branding has to disappear that night.

EA CO AS · Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:59 pm

timf wrote:
The two "More to Love" aircraft will probably be the only reference to Virgin America going forward.

This.

lightsaber · Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:13 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Virgin America friends have to understand that Richard Branson tried to make it expensive for Alaska to keep the Virgin brand. So it is not at all strange for Alaska to get rid of it as fast as possible. I do not think we will see any retro liveries and all frames will be switched to Alaska liveries fast, all mentioning of Virgin stopping soon.
Considerations regarding the possibility of keeping the Virgin America brand alive under the ownership of Alaska were torpedoed by Richard Branson. Alaska bought the airline not the brand.

Sad but true as all the Virgin brands are struggling due to the high fees. Is there a healthy Virgin airline? VS and VA certainly aren't...

Lightsaber

lightsaber · Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:17 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
jcwr56 wrote:
It's not like everything I listed could be swapped out overnight.

Just watch what happens overnight on the evening of 4/24 to 4/25; all counter and gate signage, digital displays, etc. will have the VX branding disappear overnight and be replaced by AS branding.

Aside from the aircraft, all VX branding has to disappear that night.

Do you have a link to 4/25. Branson has always been greedy, so I can only imagine the terms he tried to impose.

Lightsaber

aeromoe · Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:23 pm

And why would it have to be an A320? The A321s are likely to be around longer (my opinion)...not sure about the A319s.

EA CO AS · Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:29 pm

lightsaber wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
jcwr56 wrote:
It's not like everything I listed could be swapped out overnight.

Just watch what happens overnight on the evening of 4/24 to 4/25; all counter and gate signage, digital displays, etc. will have the VX branding disappear overnight and be replaced by AS branding.

Aside from the aircraft, all VX branding has to disappear that night.

Do you have a link to 4/25. Branson has always been greedy, so I can only imagine the terms he tried to impose.

Lightsaber

4/25/18 is the date of the single PSS cutover, and that’s the night all the VX branding will be removed.

Not sure of what, if anything, SRB proposed or attempted to negotiate in terms of AAG potentially using the Virgin brand going forward, but the original contract called for royalties of 0.5% of total annual revenues, which later increased to 0.7% and were due to again increase to 1.0% of total company revenue.

Seeing as a combined AS/VX operation equals over $8B in annual revenue, you have to ask the question; “Will the Virgin brand generate more than $80M annually that AAG wouldn’t otherwise have?” and based on that alone it’s pretty evident the brand becomes a liability, not an asset.

N983AN · Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:40 pm

MSPbrandon wrote:
How much "Heritage" does VX have? .....

None I would say.

The “heritage” context and reference is to the carrier some company employees began their careers at more than anything else. If you review the press releases and statements both the combined AA and independent US Airways put out at those times, the focus very much was to play into the affinity employees had at the cadre of carriers that came together to from the US Airways (2005-2013) and the same idea was used at the combined AA for the smaller carriers that contributed to legacy AA at the time of the 2013 translation.

hiflyeras · Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:43 pm

Ask the JetAmerica people working at AS how long it took to get a retro aircraft in the AS fleet. They're still waiting...since 1987.

NameOmitted · Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:02 pm

I do wish AS would do more heritage livery. I would love to see the Alaska Coastal logo re-appear on an aircraft.

Jamake1 · Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:03 pm

Perhaps Jet America would be a more appropriate name for the combined carrier.

jeffh747 · Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:07 pm

No way Alaska would ever consider having a VX heritage jet. I think I saw a post by EA CO AS on another thread that the AS marketing team wanted the VX brand in the ground asap or something, which is true. As much as I love the VX brand, and dislike the AS brand, VX doesn’t bring anything special to AS from the branding perspective, so why would AS want to pay royalties? This acquisition was a great move for AS, they got a much stronger West Coast presence, and more aircraft. The VX brand was probably the least beneficial asset to them in the acquisition compared to everything else they got.

Hopefully Branson makes good on what he said about starting a VX 2, but I have my doubts.

cschleic · Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:14 pm

jspams20 wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
The new American own the US brand in the merger, Alaska would still need to pay Branson to use his branding and frankly, there’s no reason to do that. This sort of merger needs a clean slate ASAP. It would be like United flying a single B772 with “Continental” across the fuselage. Too contentious.

I had to do a double take last year when I saw a United 737 landing at LAX that still had the Continental branding on it. It wasn't the heritage jet either. I guess it was one that was eventually going to the desert.

Impossible, all were repainted years ago.

Other than the one heritage 737 still out there, correct?

OA940 · Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:16 pm

I doubt they will, unfortunately.

DarthLobster · Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:28 pm

Jamake1 wrote:
Perhaps Jet America would be a more appropriate name for the combined carrier.

And AirTran would have been a more appropriate name for a combined carrier, since Southwest serves far more than just the southwestern US.

Alaska is widely-known on the west coast, and that’s where their efforts are focused. No need to switch.

lightsaber · Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:37 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
[
4/25/18 is the date of the single PSS cutover, and that’s the night all the VX branding will be removed.

Not sure of what, if anything, SRB proposed or attempted to negotiate in terms of AAG potentially using the Virgin brand going forward, but the original contract called for royalties of 0.5% of total annual revenues, which later increased to 0.7% and were due to again increase to 1.0% of total company revenue.

Seeing as a combined AS/VX operation equals over $8B in annual revenue, you have to ask the question; “Will the Virgin brand generate more than $80M annually that AAG wouldn’t otherwise have?” and based on that alone it’s pretty evident the brand becomes a liability, not an asset.

1% of company revenue is huge! 1/2% is a tremendous license fee.

What matters is the cost is more than the purchase price of a NEO jet for the privilege of using the Virgin brand.
Branson refused to set a price to make a retro jet livery viable.

Lightsaber

EA CO AS · Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:34 pm

Jamake1 wrote:
Perhaps Jet America would be a more appropriate name for the combined carrier.

Except then you’d be starting with zero name recognition.

EA CO AS · Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:36 pm

The first Airbus being repainted from VX to AS livery went into the paint shop today and is expected back in service by 1/25.

airzona11 · Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:42 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
timf wrote:
The two "More to Love" aircraft will probably be the only reference to Virgin America going forward.

This.

Have heard that is the plan too.

jeffh747 · Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:18 am

EA CO AS wrote:
The first Airbus being repainted from VX to AS livery went into the paint shop today and is expected back in service by 1/25.

Are you allowed to disclose the tail number? I’ve been keeping an eye on the entire fleet for the past month or so and the only one that hasn’t flown in the past 7 days is 641, but 851 and 852 have been at GSO for awhile.

EA CO AS · Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:19 am

jeffh747 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
The first Airbus being repainted from VX to AS livery went into the paint shop today and is expected back in service by 1/25.

Are you allowed to disclose the tail number? I’ve been keeping an eye on the entire fleet for the past month or so and the only one that hasn’t flown in the past 7 days is 641, but 851 and 852 have been at GSO for awhile.

I don't know which tail number; it was mentioned today during an employee meeting with senior leadership, but they didn't specify which aircraft.

452QX · Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:05 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
jeffh747 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
The first Airbus being repainted from VX to AS livery went into the paint shop today and is expected back in service by 1/25.

Are you allowed to disclose the tail number? I’ve been keeping an eye on the entire fleet for the past month or so and the only one that hasn’t flown in the past 7 days is 641, but 851 and 852 have been at GSO for awhile.

I don't know which tail number; it was mentioned today during an employee meeting with senior leadership, but they didn't specify which aircraft.

Can second that, the air group meeting didn't name a tail number but it does coincide with N839VA flying up to PAE two days ago.

jeffh747 · Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:05 am

452QX wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
jeffh747 wrote:
Are you allowed to disclose the tail number? I’ve been keeping an eye on the entire fleet for the past month or so and the only one that hasn’t flown in the past 7 days is 641, but 851 and 852 have been at GSO for awhile.

I don't know which tail number; it was mentioned today during an employee meeting with senior leadership, but they didn't specify which aircraft.

Can second that, the air group meeting didn't name a tail number but it does coincide with N839VA flying up to PAE two days ago.

Very interesting. I’ve heard various conflicting info that the repaints would be done at GSO or VCV. I’ve noticed over the past few months (starting in September) of various VX Airbuses visiting PAE. Can you confirm or deny if the repaints will be done at PAE?

EA CO AS · Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:50 am

jeffh747 wrote:
452QX wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:

I don't know which tail number; it was mentioned today during an employee meeting with senior leadership, but they didn't specify which aircraft.

Can second that, the air group meeting didn't name a tail number but it does coincide with N839VA flying up to PAE two days ago.

Very interesting. I’ve heard various conflicting info that the repaints would be done at GSO or VCV. I’ve noticed over the past few months (starting in September) of various VX Airbuses visiting PAE. Can you confirm or deny if the repaints will be done at PAE?

I can neither confirm nor deny because I simply don't know about PAE; I know the paint lines have typically been at VCV, but have heard GSO is used for that as well as interior refits.

452QX · Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:27 am

EA CO AS wrote:
jeffh747 wrote:
452QX wrote:

Can second that, the air group meeting didn't name a tail number but it does coincide with N839VA flying up to PAE two days ago.

Very interesting. I’ve heard various conflicting info that the repaints would be done at GSO or VCV. I’ve noticed over the past few months (starting in September) of various VX Airbuses visiting PAE. Can you confirm or deny if the repaints will be done at PAE?

I can neither confirm nor deny because I simply don't know about PAE; I know the paint lines have typically been at VCV, but have heard GSO is used for that as well as interior refits.

My first thought was that it had to be something else, all of the AS and QX painting has been at VCV recently.

yeelep · Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:31 am

452QX wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
jeffh747 wrote:
Are you allowed to disclose the tail number? I’ve been keeping an eye on the entire fleet for the past month or so and the only one that hasn’t flown in the past 7 days is 641, but 851 and 852 have been at GSO for awhile.

I don't know which tail number; it was mentioned today during an employee meeting with senior leadership, but they didn't specify which aircraft.

Can second that, the air group meeting didn't name a tail number but it does coincide with N839VA flying up to PAE two days ago.

It's not N839VA and it won't be painted at PAE. 641, 852 and 852 are all in heavy check.

452QX · Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:12 am

yeelep wrote:
452QX wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:

I don't know which tail number; it was mentioned today during an employee meeting with senior leadership, but they didn't specify which aircraft.

Can second that, the air group meeting didn't name a tail number but it does coincide with N839VA flying up to PAE two days ago.
It's not N839VA and it won't be painted at PAE. 641, 852 and 852 are all in heavy check.

Darn, there goes my best guess

jeffh747 · Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:12 pm

625 has just flown to Victorville. My bet is this’ll be the first one painted.

452QX · Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:47 pm

jeffh747 wrote:
625 has just flown to Victorville. My bet is this’ll be the first one painted.

The announcement that an Airbus jet had entered the paint shop was a few days ago, which would seemingly rule out anything that's arrived since then as the "first."

That of course isn't to say that 625 isn't getting painted, but it shouldn't be the first one if that holds true. Too bad they didn't name a specific # during the event..

452QX · Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:20 am

452QX wrote:
jeffh747 wrote:
625 has just flown to Victorville. My bet is this’ll be the first one painted.

The announcement that an Airbus jet had entered the paint shop was a few days ago, which would seemingly rule out anything that's arrived since then as the "first."

That of course isn't to say that 625 isn't getting painted, but it shouldn't be the first one if that holds true. Too bad they didn't name a specific # during the event..

I stand corrected, just asked Brad Tilden himself a minute ago at the AAG event and it is 625VA. On a side note, his response to if AS is keeping the aircraft names was they are looking to with some exceptions (legally high won't stick around, as an example).

jeffh747 · Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:07 am

452QX wrote:
452QX wrote:
jeffh747 wrote:
625 has just flown to Victorville. My bet is this’ll be the first one painted.

The announcement that an Airbus jet had entered the paint shop was a few days ago, which would seemingly rule out anything that's arrived since then as the "first."

That of course isn't to say that 625 isn't getting painted, but it shouldn't be the first one if that holds true. Too bad they didn't name a specific # during the event..

I stand corrected, just asked Brad Tilden himself a minute ago at the AAG event and it is 625VA. On a side note, his response to if AS is keeping the aircraft names was they are looking to with some exceptions (legally high won't stick around, as an example).

Very pleasantly surprised to hear that AS is considering keeping the names on the planes! I chuckled when you mentioned legally high- I was thinking about the topic of AS keeping names last week and quickly dismissed the notion of it because of legally high specifically. That name just does not go well at all with the Alaska brand. I’d imagine “screw it let’s do it” and “virgin and tonic” are in the same boat because of their suggestive themes.

However I think california dreaming, pineapple express, let there be flight, and san francisco pride are names right off the bat that I could see sticking around. They seem like they’d complement the new Alaska branding. I would also love to see glitter girl stick around, I know she’s a favorite among employees, and is one of my favorites as well.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net