beeweel15 wrote:

airjamaica wrote:

gunnerman wrote:

Some people don't understand the basics of airline economics

beeweel15 wrote:

I agree with you on that.

Beeweel15 I suggest you stop showing up yourself. A few years ago you were very vocal in both the Caribbean & Jamaican threads re BW acquiring B787's & A380's etc. to expand into Europe & beyond. And you want to convince me that you understand airline economics more than everyone else? Sorry to disappoint you, but working at JFK doesn't necessarily equate to a fundamental understanding of airline economics as evidenced by your BW assertions a few years ago.

hummingbird wrote:

I would be careful with the word confusion. Deploying B747s and B777s from NYC to the Caribbean. Remember??

Who could ever forget these suggestions? Lol.

Well if the LAX-MBJ route is so great why is it always being cut. There must be a reason please tell us. Also there were things back then that BW could have done and they would have been in a better position today. And yes working at JFK airport you see and experience things as it pertains the USA which one person got confused on.

Yes when necessary you can use a B747 or 777 not all the time.

How is it you're from Trinidad but you're all up in Jamaica business like this, with great passion and fervor? I would think that a man with your "insight" would want to help your island create their own tourism product...

I'd like to know what "recommendations" you have to offer their MOT; I bet you'd be an excellent "adviser"

guyanam wrote:

gunnerman wrote:

One new plane is a big deal for a little airline, makes zero difference when it comes to taking on the big boys on their home turf.

Given that people traveling that route must be fully aware of the existence of the nonstop service, but yet the majority do not use it, does suggest to me that nonstop service isnt critical to maintain travel to MBJ from California. I bet that AA assessed their market and realized that they would still keep passengers, just having them fly thru the DFW hub instead of incurring the costs of running a low frequency semi seasonal route.

GCM is trying to develop travel out of the West Coast. Non core routes for KX have been money losers but are operated because of the economic benefits that it brings to GCM. They operated flights to ATL, DC area, BOS and IAH. Once a major brand entered they exited. GCM is not a major brand to the degree that MBJ is so GCM views these routes as part of their market development process. It is much easier for Jamaica to attract major brands on a given route.

The question will be if this route, almost guaranteed to be a money loser (just as it was for JM which tried it on 2 ocassions), doesnt generate enough business for GCM whether they will continue to sink subsidies into it if it appears as if Jamaica is the main beneficiary. GCM tracks performance on noncore routes and provides subsidies which they view as revenue for KX. This is seen as justifiable the degree to which the route generates incremental leisure or business travel to GCM as the benefits will off set gov't subsidies. If they do not and if a carrier cannot be attracted to start service they exit.

Guyana want to start up their tourism product (of sorts)... Since you're Guyanese and have such fantastic "insight" and "fervor" in Jamaica's tourism product, and I've never seen you offering such great "analysis" and "recommendation" as a means to "educate" the members about how they can go about getting up there with us (....), are you in "consultation" with their MOT? Perhaps a board member?

I mean it'd be a shame to see someone of you "expertise" in the aviation field not putting your skills to the proper usage.

In 2003 when JM offered nonstop service 44k people visited from CA. This peaked at around 53k in 2007. In 2014 with no nonstop service arrivals recovered to 2003 levels. The numbers dropping off due to the recession that badly impacted CA. In 2016 it reached 51k. This means that 85% of Californians see no issue in not having nonstop service to Jamaica.

Want to dramatically increase numbers from CA. Then address the issue of crime in Jamaica. It isnt just over the border as Mexico is so it is likely suffers more because many have a negative perception of it. It doesn't appear that the lack of nonstop service is an major impediment to generating visitors from CA.


KX will axe this route to LAX if it doesn't generate visitors for them. If the route loses money, GCM will subsidies it only if they see benefits to that island. If its Jamaica that benefits and not GCM then Jamaica will have to offset any losses. KX has now moved to becoming a break even operation once subsidies for their loss making routes which only operate for market development purposes are added. KX's mature routes to Jamaica and FL are profitable. KX is under pressure not to be a burden for GCM taxpayers.

Rmjhjr wrote:

How is it you're from Trinidad but you're all up in Jamaica business r"

If you wish only Jamaicans to post move this from airliners.net set up your own forum and insist that people show Jamaican ID in order to be admitted. This is a free forum and any one can be free to post once they abide by the rules.

guyanam wrote:

In 2003 when JM offered nonstop service 44k people visited from CA. This peaked at around 53k in 2007. In 2014 with no nonstop service arrivals recovered to 2003 levels. The numbers dropping off due to the recession that badly impacted CA. In 2016 it reached 51k. This means that 85% of Californians see no issue in not having nonstop service to Jamaica.

Want to dramatically increase numbers from CA. Then address the issue of crime in Jamaica. It isnt just over the border as Mexico is so it is likely suffers more because many have a negative perception of it. It doesn't appear that the lack of nonstop service is an major impediment to generating visitors from CA.


KX will axe this route to LAX if it doesn't generate visitors for them. If the route loses money, GCM will subsidies it only if they see benefits to that island. If its Jamaica that benefits and not GCM then Jamaica will have to offset any losses. KX has now moved to becoming a break even operation once subsidies for their loss making routes which only operate for market development purposes are added. KX's mature routes to Jamaica and FL are profitable. KX is under pressure not to be a burden for GCM taxpayers.

All guesses. Just wait and see, simple. You do not know what MOUs mat be signed and what commitments to be made the relevant parties.
I do not know why this pessimistic bitterness, but okay... Noted

beeweel15 wrote:

Also there were things back then that BW could have done and they would have been in a better position today.

Maybe. But acquiring B777s, B787s, etc. to fly to Europe as you championed is certainly not one of them. If they could not get London to work, where else in Europe would they profitably deploy those metals to? Furthermore outside of the Carnival season, summer & Xmas, how would they fill those big birds on a regular basis? Again being an employee at JFK airport & "observing certain things" doesn't qualify you as having fundamental "understanding" of airline economics. Your so called "understanding" is quite questionable... and laughable.

Rmjhjr wrote:

with great passion and fervor

The passion & fervor is there for some only when they want to criticize. Notice that passion & fervor isn't displayed with the news that CM will be increasing services to MBJ from PTY to daily? Ditto for pending services from BOG & LIM.

Airlinerguy wrote:

MBJ Looking like some mall in Florida, quite modern I might add

Both KIN & MBJ have come a very long way. Walking through MBJ is quite a spectacle. Looking quite modern indeed. I am always impressed with what they have done down there whenever I use that facility.

Rmjhjr wrote:

[quoGuyana want to start up their tourism product (of sorts)... Since you're Guyanese and have such fantastic "insight" and "fervor" in Jamaica's tourism product, and I've never seen you offering such great "analysis" and "recommendation" as a means to "educate" the members about how they can go about getting up there with us (....), are you in "consultation" with their MOT? Perhaps a board member?

I mean it'd be a shame to see someone of you "expertise" in the aviation field not putting your skills to the proper usage.

As a Guyanese my insight is that Guyana doesn't have a tourist industry and will never have one. All Guyana will get will be returning Guyanese, a few Caribbean people and oil & gas oriented business people. IMHO they don't even really want tourism. Talk but no action.

Americans will go to Central America because they already have a tourist friendly package available, they know how to market it and they are already known in the market. Guyana has too many crime related travel advisories, and is unable/unwilling to change its image as being a crime ridden place. There was a forum right here on airliners.net. I suggest that you read comments made by American posters and ask yourself whether they will willing visit Guyana based on current perception.


AA canceled the flight because they can keep their California Jamaica numbers up by flying people through their hubs. The introduction of the LAX MBJ route can be attributed as generating a scant 8k more visitors based on a comparison of 2014 numbers with those of 2016. In fact one can argue that it was the recovery of the CA economy which might have generated that increase.

This is an open forum and anyone who is registered has a right to participate. Whether you chose to admit this or not Jamaica is a Caribbean nation and so those interested in Caribbean aviation will continue to participate.

BTW making personal attacks is indicative that someone lost the argument.

[quote="Rmjhjr"ll guesses. Just wait and see, simple. You do not know what MOUs mat be signed and what commitments to be made the relevant parties.
I do not know why this pessimistic bitterness, but okay... Noted[/quote]


What I do know is that KX is the only Caribbean airline that isnt a money loser when one includes budgeted subsidies for "developmental" routes. What I do know is that if a route doesn't generate profits or if it doesn't generate increased visitors for GCM or succeed in proving to a major brand that a route can be one that they should add, they axe it.

They axed their PTY route when they couldn't get CM interested and when they realized that GCM wasn't going to generate sufficient business out of Latin America. They axed ATL, DC, IAH, and BOS when major brands started service. They keep JFK and ORD as these markets are critical for GCM and they don't want the US carriers to have a monopoly risking high fares.

So unless the MOU includes provisions for Jamaica to underwrite losses should the route not benefit GCM it will be axed.

Yes an ANALYSIS of KX will indicate this GCM isnt going to force KX to keep a route that doesn't benefit GCM unless it is profitable and the track record of LAX Caribbean routes isnt too great. Even SJU was dropped.

airjamaica wrote:

[
The passion & fervor is there for some only when they want to criticize. Notice that passion & fervor isn't displayed with the news that CM will be increasing services to MBJ from PTY to daily? Ditto for pending services from BOG & LIM.
.

The only "passion" that is exhibited in this thread are by flag waving Jamaican chauvinists. Those Latin American routes make sense so there is no need to comment. The KX LAX route has its risks so people comment on that. I have yet to see a rebuttal to those comments.

What you don't want to talk about is the fact that not one person here has doubted Jamaica's potential to attract visitors from CA and in fact we have even shown that the VAST MAJORITY of those doing so will endure travelling through a hub to do so. A fact I bet that Jamaica will tell GCM if GCM demands any route support beyond marketing promotional activity.

guyanam wrote:

The only "passion" that is exhibited in this thread are by flag waving Jamaican chauvinists.

Lol. Thank you very much. Well what can I say, we are a very proud nation. I'm so very sorry if you can't deal with that. But you do have options & I am going to go out on a limb here & assume that you know what those options are.

guyanam wrote:

Those Latin American routes make sense so there is no need to comment

Of course comments can still be made about these positive developments. I clearly recall when this subject came up in the past, many were of the view that it would never happen. Well from the look of things it seem set to materialize in the very near future. (Now I am not implying that you were one of them who said that, so there is no need to get all dramatic now... relax!)

guyanam wrote:

What you don't want to talk about is the fact that not one person here has doubted Jamaica's potential to attract visitors from CA

Okay. Let's talk about it then. I see where no one has doubted Jamaica's potential to attract visitors from California & many of them... the majority use hubs such as DFW, IAH, HOU, ATL, FLL & MIA to connect to MBJ. Over the years several carriers operated LAX-MBJ nonstop on a seasonal or scheduled basis & discontinued at some point. Maybe another carrier will attempt it in the future (subsidies) ... maybe none wont. Only time will tell. It's not that big a deal really. No need for the excitement & drama.

guyanam wrote:

airjamaica wrote:

The passion & fervor is there for some only when they want to criticize. Notice that passion & fervor isn't displayed with the news that CM will be increasing services to MBJ from PTY to daily? Ditto for pending services from BOG & LIM.
.

The only "passion" that is exhibited in this thread are by flag waving Jamaican chauvinists. Those Latin American routes make sense so there is no need to comment. The KX LAX route has its risks so people comment on that. I have yet to see a rebuttal to those comments.

What you don't want to talk about is the fact that not one person here has doubted Jamaica's potential to attract visitors from CA and in fact we have even shown that the VAST MAJORITY of those doing so will endure travelling through a hub to do so. A fact I bet that Jamaica will tell GCM if GCM demands any route support beyond marketing promotional activity.

Why do you sound so contradictory? No one has ever doubted that Jamaica sells hotter than fresh-baked bread, except you. Your tone has always been bitter and negative toward Jamaica. As a matter of fact, ever since I came here you've been harping about crime, crime, crime. You ans I some time last year had a go about this very attitude. The result? We recorded over 4 million passenger arrivals through Sangster Int'l! Yet, it's still not enough for you. Even now you're making yourself as some pretentious "airline prophet" again going at Jamaica.

Why aren't you trying to "educate" you own gov about the intricacies of the tourism industry so that they too can start something?
Or is it that your SOLE intent is to criticize and set yourself up to be a laughing stock (if you haven't already know that)? Sir, go help Guyana start something, Jamaica doing just fine and just to be sure, we ALL know the risks involved with the LAX mess.

guyanam wrote:

airjamaica wrote:

[
The passion & fervor is there for some only when they want to criticize. Notice that passion & fervor isn't displayed with the news that CM will be increasing services to MBJ from PTY to daily? Ditto for pending services from BOG & LIM.
.

The only "passion" that is exhibited in this thread are by flag waving Jamaican chauvinists. Those Latin American routes make sense so there is no need to comment. The KX LAX route has its risks so people comment on that. I have yet to see a rebuttal to those comments.

What you don't want to talk about is the fact that not one person here has doubted Jamaica's potential to attract visitors from CA and in fact we have even shown that the VAST MAJORITY of those doing so will endure travelling through a hub to do so. A fact I bet that Jamaica will tell GCM if GCM demands any route support beyond marketing promotional activity.

The main markets are LAX-MBJ and LAX-GCM (we can safely ignore the small MBJ-GCM market which has a mere two flights a week by KX). So, it's a proportion of each flight's passengers who will be landing at GCM from LAX and the Cayman Islands goverment has no problem in providing subsidies for them, but not for the LAX-MBJ passengers. I can't see this route operating unless the Jamaicans also provide subsidies.

gunnerman wrote:

guyanam wrote:

airjamaica wrote:

[
The passion & fervor is there for some only when they want to criticize. Notice that passion & fervor isn't displayed with the news that CM will be increasing services to MBJ from PTY to daily? Ditto for pending services from BOG & LIM.
.

The only "passion" that is exhibited in this thread are by flag waving Jamaican chauvinists. Those Latin American routes make sense so there is no need to comment. The KX LAX route has its risks so people comment on that. I have yet to see a rebuttal to those comments.

What you don't want to talk about is the fact that not one person here has doubted Jamaica's potential to attract visitors from CA and in fact we have even shown that the VAST MAJORITY of those doing so will endure travelling through a hub to do so. A fact I bet that Jamaica will tell GCM if GCM demands any route support beyond marketing promotional activity.

The main markets are LAX-MBJ and LAX-GCM (we can safely ignore the small MBJ-GCM market which has a mere two flights a week by KX). So, it's a proportion of each flight's passengers who will be landing at GCM from LAX and the Cayman Islands goverment has no problem in providing subsidies for them, but not for the LAX-MBJ passengers. I can't see this route operating unless the Jamaicans also provide subsidies.

Guyanam - what does Guyana have going? NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go worry about the non-existent mess which is there instead of worry about what Jamaica has going. Even in GCM-MBJ is small, at least there is something. And so what if there are subsidies? Why are you trying to sound super smart? Name 1 airline which doesn't get some sort of pocket money?
I tell you - y'all just so negative and sound worse than hags.

I don't think there's any need to take comments on the LAX-MBJ route personally. It's not a knock on Jamaica but on the route itself. Jamaica does very well from California for a Caribbean destination. However, as has been proven time and again, LAX-Caribbean routes aren't very successful. LAX-SJU, LAX-HAV, LAX-MBJ all tried at various times and all dropped. It simply makes sense for the US majors to route those California passengers through their Midwest, Texan and East Coast hubs. As has been proven in the case of MBJ, those passengers don't mind making those connections.

I think the flawed connection here is that what is in the interest of the tourist board is also in the interest of the airline. Of course the tourist board wants a non stop to a gateway as large as LAX. Hell, the tourist board probably wants a non stop to every city on Earth if it could get it. However, the tourist board's desire for such a route does not make it a good route. I'm personally skeptical that KX can make this route work because if AA with its hub and large LAX frequent flyer base couldn't make it work, I don't see how KX can. Yes, AA's total costs may be higher but they also spread them over a significantly larger network.

Brickell305 wrote:

I don't think there's any need to take comments on the LAX-MBJ route personally. It's not a knock on Jamaica but on the route itself. Jamaica does very well from California for a Caribbean destination. However, as has been proven time and again, LAX-Caribbean routes aren't very successful. LAX-SJU, LAX-HAV, LAX-MBJ all tried at various times and all dropped. It simply makes sense for the US majors to route those California passengers through their Midwest, Texan and East Coast hubs. As has been proven in the case of MBJ, those passengers don't mind making those connections.

I think the flawed connection here is that what is in the interest of the tourist board is also in the interest of the airline. Of course the tourist board wants a non stop to a gateway as large as LAX. Hell, the tourist board probably wants a non stop to every city on Earth if it could get it. However, the tourist board's desire for such a route does not make it a good route. I'm personally skeptical that KX can make this route work because if AA with its hub and large LAX frequent flyer base couldn't make it work, I don't see how KX can. Yes, AA's total costs may be higher but they also spread them over a significantly larger network.

Sir, that man has done nothing but take jabs at Jamaica as Jamaica did him anything. The fault-finding and all the negativity is totally unnecessary. Since he's such an "airline genius" then why isn't he helping his own country, which has nothing going for them? Unless he's just craving for attention.

And tell me, what's your interest in what routes fly into Jamaica? What's your personal investment claim? Are you an hotelier?

All you guys do is blast and criticize. I'm now taking personal interest in your direct involvement. And too, do you criticize Trinidad and their situation? Direct me to where you've issued recommendations to create their product.

Time to see if I can trust your sayings or you're just being messy too.

Latest MBJ Shots.











Brand New MAX

MBJ has been on my to visit list but the behavior by posters who I am assuming to be Jamaican make me disappointed enough to have second thoughts.
For the poster commenting that Guyana has nothing going for it..With 600 thousand barrels of oil per day ( more than Trinidad ever had) coming online in 2 years it may be that Guyana will be a major source of investment and tourism dollars to Jamaica in the future. Something to think about.
Wish KX all the best and congrats to MBJ.

airjamaica wrote:

guyanam wrote:

The only "passion" that is exhibited in this thread are by flag waving Jamaican chauvinists.

Lol. Thank you very much. Well what can I say, we are a very proud nation. I'm so very sorry if you can't deal with that. But you do have options & I am going to go out on a limb here & assume that you know what those options are.

guyanam wrote:

Those Latin American routes make sense so there is no need to comment

Of course comments can still be made about these positive developments. I clearly recall when this subject came up in the past, many were of the view that it would never happen. Well from the look of things it seem set to materialize in the very near future. (Now I am not implying that you were one of them who said that, so there is no need to get all dramatic now... relax!)

guyanam wrote:

What you don't want to talk about is the fact that not one person here has doubted Jamaica's potential to attract visitors from CA

Okay. Let's talk about it then. I see where no one has doubted Jamaica's potential to attract visitors from California & many of them... the majority use hubs such as DFW, IAH, HOU, ATL, FLL & MIA to connect to MBJ. Over the years several carriers operated LAX-MBJ nonstop on a seasonal or scheduled basis & discontinued at some point. Maybe another carrier will attempt it in the future (subsidies) ... maybe none wont. Only time will tell. It's not that big a deal really. No need for the excitement & drama.

Not sure what you want me to say about the new Latin service except to say "I told you so". When some here who think that OJ is a Jamaican airline just because it has "Jamaica" in its name were braying about service to GRU I said not going to happen. Said ditto about flights to MBJ, FLL, and BGI. Ditto about the IPO. I have yet to be proven wrong on the expansion plans of that airline.

I said that Jamaica ought to increase focus on Colombia and Mexico. Both are close to Jamaica. The economies of both are more robust than that of Brazil and Jamaica has had some measure of success out of Chile and Argentina, so should build on it. So now we see flights out of those markets and no direct service from Brazil. What do you expect me to say? And none of these flights are operated by OJ.

As to pride in nationhood. Butch a proud a Jamaican as any, has frequently stated that Jamaica would have a tourist industry twice its size if it dealt with its image of being violent and unsafe for tourists. He as a patriotic Jamaican is no doubt frustrated by the number of times he hears many saying that with all of its attractions Jamaica isn't for them because they are afraid to visit. As a patriotic Jamaican who is angered when he sees business that Jamaica should get floating away to new comers on the scene like the DR which only started tourism in 1990 yet is now miles ahead.

THAT is what being a proud Jamaican is all about.

BW600 wrote:

MBJ has been on my to visit list but the behavior by posters who I am assuming to be Jamaican make me disappointed enough to have second thoughts.

Pay no attention to fanatics whose postings succeed only in making them look foolish. You don't need to take their views into account when deciding whether or not to visit Montego Bay or any other destination.

BW600 wrote:

MBJ has been on my to visit list but the behavior by posters who I am assuming to be Jamaican make me disappointed enough to have second thoughts.
For the poster commenting that Guyana has nothing going for it..With 600 thousand barrels of oil per day ( more than Trinidad ever had) coming online in 2 years it maybe that Guyana will be a major source of investment and tourism dollars to Jamaica in the future. Something to think about.
Wish KX all the best and congrats to MBJ.

Exxon has already warned Guyana and Guyanese about irrationally exuberant expectations from this industry. The oil will be drilled and pumped directly into a ship which will than sail away from Guyana. Maybe to Trinidad, but more like to Houston. Only a few hundred Guyanese will get jobs and maybe mainly at the lower levels given that Guyana doesn't have a cadre of people with experience in this industry. LIATs new POS OGL service should do well as many Trinis are in Guyana and more will arrive. AA is also aiming at this market as their fares are being quoted as being much higher than those offered by BW and PY ex MIA.

T&T has ample multipliers into its economy because they have the facilities and the expertise to allow significant value added activity.. I don't expect LNG or petrochemical plants and steel mills in Guyana as Trinidad has. I don't expect the heavy engineering and other supportive activities that Trinidad has. With lower employment and less multipliers into the non oil economy I am not sure where there will be a boost in other sectors that might also stimulate more travel.


But as to a tourist industry, outside of returning Guyanese, oil execs and Caribbean visitors, I see no sign of this, especially given that Guyana has been speaking of this for over 20 years but no progress has been made. With Costa Rica, Belize and others offering eco/adventure tourism, Guyana isn't even beginning to be able to compete with these well established players.

An eco/adventure tourist living in the USA can easily source the full range activities that they require and expect to find reliable suppliers for these services. Information is readily available online and reservations can be made. Not so Guyana. The best that Guyana has are eco lodges for oil execs to take a couple of days off. But not to attract people who will travel thousands of miles, pay thousands of dollars and expect to get an experience consistent with the amount spent. The few operators selling Guyana offer packages considerably more expensive than even Suriname, and way more than Belize and Costa Rica.

BW600 wrote:

MBJ has been on my to visit list but the behavior by posters who I am assuming to be Jamaican make me disappointed enough to have second thoughts.
For the poster commenting that Guyana has nothing going for it..With 600 thousand barrels of oil per day ( more than Trinidad ever had) coming online in 2 years it may be that Guyana will be a major source of investment and tourism dollars to Jamaica in the future. Something to think about.
Wish KX all the best and congrats to MBJ.

Feel free to be disappointed. I like that you disregard the beating up on my island my Guyaman (Guyanese) and Bwee (Trinidadian). But that's fine. Whether you come or not is neither here nor there.
And do well to note, the argument of mine has been in line with aviation, since we had never veered off into other territories. Nobody ever denied Guyana's oil-wealth, oh no!
I've been consistently kept in, along with my peers to aviation.

Please note and quote me carefully.
Also, your forecast for the future may become a reality. I am speaking in the now. Right now is where we are, ok? Also, Guyaman actually agreed with me somewhat, if you read his entire post.

Oh, appreciate he congrats. At least someone did.

gunnerman wrote:

BW600 wrote:

MBJ has been on my to visit list but the behavior by posters who I am assuming to be Jamaican make me disappointed enough to have second thoughts.

Pay no attention to fanatics whose postings succeed only in making them look foolish. You don't need to take their views into account when deciding whether or not to visit Montego Bay or any other destination.

And look who's talking about looking foolish... You're the one who has attention issues, swapping accounts and talking to yourself.

Be mindful you're easily ignoble

guyanam wrote:

Exxon has already warned Guyana and Guyanese about irrationally exuberant expectations from this industry. The oil will be drilled and pumped directly into a ship which will than sail away from Guyana. Maybe to Trinidad, but more like to Houston. Only a few hundred Guyanese will get jobs and maybe mainly at the lower levels given that Guyana doesn't have a cadre of people with experience in this industry. LIATs new POS OGL service should do well as many Trinis are in Guyana and more will arrive. AA is also aiming at this market as their fares are being quoted as being much higher than those offered by BW and PY ex MIA.

T&T has ample multipliers into its economy because they have the facilities and the expertise to allow significant value added activity.. I don't expect LNG or petrochemical plants and steel mills in Guyana as Trinidad has. I don't expect the heavy engineering and other supportive activities that Trinidad has. With lower employment and less multipliers into the non oil economy I am not sure where there will be a boost in other sectors that might also stimulate more travel.


But as to a tourist industry, outside of returning Guyanese, oil execs and Caribbean visitors, I see no sign of this, especially given that Guyana has been speaking of this for over 20 years but no progress has been made. With Costa Rica, Belize and others offering eco/adventure tourism, Guyana isn't even beginning to be able to compete with these well established players.

An eco/adventure tourist living in the USA can easily source the full range activities that they require and expect to find reliable suppliers for these services. Information is readily available online and reservations can be made. Not so Guyana. The best that Guyana has are eco lodges for oil execs to take a couple of days off. But not to attract people who will travel thousands of miles, pay thousands of dollars and expect to get an experience consistent with the amount spent. The few operators selling Guyana offer packages considerably more expensive than even Suriname, and way more than Belize and Costa Rica.

So hold up... are you trying to say that despite the oil being Guyana's, they won't be seeing its wealth? But that don't sound right at all! I had, in private conversations hoped this would give them the boost to launch them on a much higher platform. Now, with you saying this is really cutting into me. No sir, I don't like how this scenario is potentially looking.

Rmjhjr wrote:

[q

So hold up... are you trying to say that despite the oil being Guyana's, they won't be seeing its wealth? But that don't sound right at all! I had, in private conversations hoped this would give them the boost to launch them on a much higher platform. Now, with you saying this is really cutting into me. No sir, I don't like how this scenario is potentially looking.

If an oil rig pumps oil into a ship which never docks in Guyana, so the oil never reaches Guyana how much do you think that Guyana will benefit? Do you know that it appears that Guyana doesn't get much in royalties until Exxon has recouped its exploration expenses? It is a dominant opinion in Guyana that this gov't AND the political party which ran the previous gov't both cut a bad deal. This because neither understand the oil industry. Both however are hungrily eyeing anticipated revenues..


So I suggest that Guyanese don't release the bubbly until there is more careful analysis of what the benefits are. Guyanese aren't even being told where exactly this enhanced economic activity will manifest as there will be no value added in Guyana, and that the oil will be exported in its raw form. Exxon has already warned that there will be few Guyanese jobs to be had. Most disturbingly we are yet to hear how the gov't plans to recycle its royalties into the economy to ensure that other sectors don't shrivel.


People cannot look at T&T and assume that this will be Guyana in 2021. In fact I don't think that anyone will claim that T&Ts economy is booming.

Rmjhjr wrote:

Also, your forecast for the future may become a reality. I am speaking in the now. Right now is where we are, ok? Also, Guyaman actually agreed with me somewhat, if you read his entire post.

Oh, appreciate he congrats. At least someone did.

[/quote]


I am not sure we agree. I don't even know whether you and the rest of your gang even understand the points being made, which is why you view it as an attack on Jamaica. An attack on Jamaica will be claims that they cannot develop a California market. Data suggest otherwise as they have fully recovered from the 2008/12 recession. As CA's economy continues to be strong further growth can be anticipated as Jamaica is a well known brand there, though of course some concerned about the perceived lack of safety.

1. Almost everyone posting here has analyzed the data provided and concluded that the vast majority of California visitors, maybe as much as 80% fly via the hubs.

2. We have also stated that nonstop service isnt mission critical as it is clear that those Californians who chose to visit Jamaica are willing to use hubs.

I see nothing wrong with KX beginning the service. If it works great. KX is definitely one of the more disciplined Caribbean carriers which is why they don't generate losses above those incurred to service developmental routes, these losses being underwritten by GCM. This discipline means that they will not entertain a loss making route unless they can identify larger economic gains for GCM through high visitor levels from the West Coast. If 80% of the passengers are to MBJ and the route looses it will be axed. And there is nothing that Jamaica will be able to do, MOU or none.

Whether the route works or not Jamaica will continue to get business from CA. I think that the buoyancy of that state's economy and continued market development by Jamaica will be a greater factor as to whether that route grows than a LAX GCM MBJ flight with a crew change in GCM. Its not as if MBJ will get nonstop service from LAX as this is being presented. MBJ will get nonstop back to LAX but passengers are usually more concerned about the flight in than the flight back. They want to start their vacation early.

And where there is "Jamaica bashing" is baffling. I suspect that those who make these arguments lack the cognitive ability to understand the points made. Too much xenophobia can create this problem.

gunnerman wrote:

s. I can't see this route operating unless the Jamaicans also provide subsidies.

This is the point and it isnt Jamaica bashing. It is a realistic analysis of the fact that after several attempts low frequency flights from LAX to the Caribbean clearly aren't profitable. GCM wants more visits from the West Coast and will pay for it. They will tag on MBJ because of runway restrictions. I suspect they also anticipate revenue support from Jamaica as well.

A route might bring economic benefits to a destination while still being a loss maker. To their credit GCM has being disciplined in using KX for this purpose when a route cannot attract a major brand, or where GCM fears that a monopoly might result in higher fares, reducing the competitiveness of the destination.

What GCM will not do is fund the development of Jamaica's tourism if they aren't getting benefits themselves.

Rmjhjr wrote:

Your tone has always been bitter and negative toward Jamaica.

Brickell305 wrote:

I don't think there's any need to take comments on the LAX-MBJ route personally. It's not a knock on Jamaica but on the route itself.

That has ALWAYS been the case to be honest. From the moment that poster 'landed' on this website he has been quite vitriolic. Not sure who from Jamaica troubled him in the past, before becoming a member of this website, but historically he has certainly displayed lots of inner bitterness! So it's nothing new really. I have gotten accustomed to it. What some fail to realize is that this has nothing to do with taking the LAX-MBJ discussion personal. It transcends way beyond that.

hummingbird wrote:

Latest MBJ Shots.

Amazing photos as usual.

BW600 wrote:

MBJ has been on my to visit list but the behavior by posters who I am assuming to be Jamaican make me disappointed enough to have second thoughts.

With all due respect Sir, you are free to vacation anywhere in the world you choose to. You are not obligated to vacation in Jamaica, so if you decide to scratch the island off your 'to visit' list it's quite fine. Not a problem.

Rmjhjr wrote:

And look who's talking about looking foolish... You're the one who has attention issues

When a person who claims to be so knowledgeable about airline economics & posting in here proposing that BW should acquire B777s, 787s etc & fly all over the place... if that isn't foolish... Re the attention issues... it's quite obvious. Guess it's best to simply ignore some of them.

New Control Tower for Ian Fleming Airport

A new air traffic control tower is to be constructed at the Ian Fleming International Airport in Boscobel, St Mary.

Minister of Transport and Mining Robert Montague made the disclosure during his recent contribution to the 2018/2019 Sectoral Debate in the House of Representatives.

The minister said discussions are at an early stage, and that it is part of the plan by the Airports Authority of Jamaica to expand and develop the airport with a view to attracting new business to the country.

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/latestne ... ofile=1228


Let's hope they don't use the same old boring tower design that they used for KIN and MBJ!

airjamaica wrote:

Rmjhjr wrote:

Your tone has always been bitter and negative toward Jamaica.

Brickell305 wrote:

I don't think there's any need to take comments on the LAX-MBJ route personally. It's not a knock on Jamaica but on the route itself.

That has ALWAYS been the case to be honest. From the moment that poster 'landed' on this website he has been quite vitriolic. Not sure who from Jamaica troubled him in the past, before becoming a member of this website, but historically he has certainly displayed lots of inner bitterness! So it's nothing new really. I have gotten accustomed to it. What some fail to realize is that this has nothing to do with taking the LAX-MBJ discussion personal. It transcends way beyond that.

hummingbird wrote:

Latest MBJ Shots.

Amazing photos as usual.

BW600 wrote:

MBJ has been on my to visit list but the behavior by posters who I am assuming to be Jamaican make me disappointed enough to have second thoughts.

With all due respect Sir, you are free to vacation anywhere in the world you choose to. You are not obligated to vacation in Jamaica, so if you decide to scratch the island off your 'to visit' list it's quite fine. Not a problem.

Rmjhjr wrote:

And look who's talking about looking foolish... You're the one who has attention issues

When a person who claims to be so knowledgeable about airline economics & posting in here proposing that BW should acquire B777s, 787s etc & fly all over the place... if that isn't foolish... Re the attention issues... it's quite obvious. Guess it's best to simply ignore some of them.

The bottom line the LAX-MBJ route did not work as planned and was dropped. Many here said this before the route started and we gave reasons and examples why. And now since we were proven right certain folks want to lash out as Jamaica bashing as was mentioned before is laughable. Also the person criticizing a suggestion that BW acquire a few 777 or 787 aircraft is foolish shows that they have no concept of any airline economics. Airlines do all they can to make money whether its starting or dropping routes or flying mixture of aircraft types etc.

Brickell305 wrote:

I don't think there's any need to take comments on the LAX-MBJ route personally. It's not a knock on Jamaica but on the route itself. Jamaica does very well from California for a Caribbean destination. However, as has been proven time and again, LAX-Caribbean routes aren't very successful. LAX-SJU, LAX-HAV, LAX-MBJ all tried at various times and all dropped. It simply makes sense for the US majors to route those California passengers through their Midwest, Texan and East Coast hubs. As has been proven in the case of MBJ, those passengers don't mind making those connections.

I think the flawed connection here is that what is in the interest of the tourist board is also in the interest of the airline. Of course the tourist board wants a non stop to a gateway as large as LAX. Hell, the tourist board probably wants a non stop to every city on Earth if it could get it. However, the tourist board's desire for such a route does not make it a good route. I'm personally skeptical that KX can make this route work because if AA with its hub and large LAX frequent flyer base couldn't make it work, I don't see how KX can. Yes, AA's total costs may be higher but they also spread them over a significantly larger network.

Actually, when AA operared LAX-SJU, the loadfactor was around 80% to 90% and was a profitable one. I think that reason why AA dropped the route in late 2011 was due to the problem of pilots shortage and the B752 that used for LAX-SJU was needed for better routes.

It does seem that six and a half years is a long time find a suitable replacement for the 752. What aircraft does AA have based at LAX?

guyanam wrote:

Rmjhjr wrote:

[q

So hold up... are you trying to say that despite the oil being Guyana's, they won't be seeing its wealth? But that don't sound right at all! I had, in private conversations hoped this would give them the boost to launch them on a much higher platform. Now, with you saying this is really cutting into me. No sir, I don't like how this scenario is potentially looking.

If an oil rig pumps oil into a ship which never docks in Guyana, so the oil never reaches Guyana how much do you think that Guyana will benefit? Do you know that it appears that Guyana doesn't get much in royalties until Exxon has recouped its exploration expenses? It is a dominant opinion in Guyana that this gov't AND the political party which ran the previous gov't both cut a bad deal. This because neither understand the oil industry. Both however are hungrily eyeing anticipated revenues..


So I suggest that Guyanese don't release the bubbly until there is more careful analysis of what the benefits are. Guyanese aren't even being told where exactly this enhanced economic activity will manifest as there will be no value added in Guyana, and that the oil will be exported in its raw form. Exxon has already warned that there will be few Guyanese jobs to be had. Most disturbingly we are yet to hear how the gov't plans to recycle its royalties into the economy to ensure that other sectors don't shrivel.


People cannot look at T&T and assume that this will be Guyana in 2021. In fact I don't think that anyone will claim that T&Ts economy is booming.

Yikes!
So, basically the Guyanese signed themselves out of their own potential wealth? I'm reading and that's how it's shaping up to seem.
And to think, I was one who actually was happy because I was thinking that with the new wealth they could launch themselves and have a strong aviation sector. But now... Sad, really sad

guyanam wrote:

I am not sure we agree. I don't even know whether you and the rest of your gang even understand the points being made, which is why you view it as an attack on Jamaica. An attack on Jamaica will be claims that they cannot develop a California market. Data suggest otherwise as they have fully recovered from the 2008/12 recession. As CA's economy continues to be strong further growth can be anticipated as Jamaica is a well known brand there, though of course some concerned about the perceived lack of safety.

1. Almost everyone posting here has analyzed the data provided and concluded that the vast majority of California visitors, maybe as much as 80% fly via the hubs.

2. We have also stated that nonstop service isnt mission critical as it is clear that those Californians who chose to visit Jamaica are willing to use hubs.

I see nothing wrong with KX beginning the service. If it works great. KX is definitely one of the more disciplined Caribbean carriers which is why they don't generate losses above those incurred to service developmental routes, these losses being underwritten by GCM. This discipline means that they will not entertain a loss making route unless they can identify larger economic gains for GCM through high visitor levels from the West Coast. If 80% of the passengers are to MBJ and the route looses it will be axed. And there is nothing that Jamaica will be able to do, MOU or none.

Whether the route works or not Jamaica will continue to get business from CA. I think that the buoyancy of that state's economy and continued market development by Jamaica will be a greater factor as to whether that route grows than a LAX GCM MBJ flight with a crew change in GCM. Its not as if MBJ will get nonstop service from LAX as this is being presented. MBJ will get nonstop back to LAX but passengers are usually more concerned about the flight in than the flight back. They want to start their vacation early.

And where there is "Jamaica bashing" is baffling. I suspect that those who make these arguments lack the cognitive ability to understand the points made. Too much xenophobia can create this problem.

Agree or not, I've been usually quiet in the forum and read the different posts and yes, there has always been a fanfare when it comes to Jamaica and airlines/routes to the island and most times it's never on a positive note, especially from you.It's always something. I mean, why not just let it be for the sake of letting things happen before getting up in arms? And so what if a route gets axed? How many routes to other islands have been axed, far more than Jamaica might I add? And how many have Jamaica gained? Why don't I hear about the gains? Why don't I see the celebrations from you? It's always nag, nag, nag, nag and more nag. And wonder if I should go to a Caribbean thread that I'll find the same "bashing" of the other islands as I see for Jamaica?

lovebird wrote:

New Control Tower for Ian Fleming Airport

A new air traffic control tower is to be constructed at the Ian Fleming International Airport in Boscobel, St Mary.

Minister of Transport and Mining Robert Montague made the disclosure during his recent contribution to the 2018/2019 Sectoral Debate in the House of Representatives.

The minister said discussions are at an early stage, and that it is part of the plan by the Airports Authority of Jamaica to expand and develop the airport with a view to attracting new business to the country.

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/latestne ... ofile=1228


Let's hope they don't use the same old boring tower design that they used for KIN and MBJ!

Lol... I passed there the other day and well, underwhelming. You actually don't recognize the place until you're halfway passing there.

airjamaica wrote:

Rmjhjr wrote:

Your tone has always been bitter and negative toward Jamaica.

[.

When I arrived here in fact you guys were fighting with the Trinidadians and were quite happy when I had my own comments about how BW used to treat Guyanese and Jamaicans in those days.

What you interpret as being vitriolic towards Jamaica is anything that you do not agree with. Understand this OJ is a GUYANESE airline regardless as to what their AOC says.

Rmjhjr wrote:

[Yikes!
So, basically the Guyanese signed themselves out of their own potential wealth? I'm reading and that's how it's shaping up to seem.
And to think, I was one who actually was happy because I was thinking that with the new wealth they could launch themselves and have a strong aviation sector. But now... Sad, really sad

They might well have. That is the fear from those who think deeply about this. Ghana signed an Exxon deal around the same time with much better terms. Neither he previous gov't nor the current one know anything about oil & gas and apparently didn't consult those who did. And were maybe in a rush fearing that Venezuela would block the deal or force Exxon out. They got so excited that they didn't protect themselves. Ghana has had a history in the industry so probably signed bad agreements in times past. The good news is that not all of the oil blocks have been handed out.

beeweel15 wrote:

The bottom line the LAX-MBJ route did not work as planned and was dropped.

So what? Big deal... Is LAX-MBJ the only route that has ever been dropped by AA?

beeweel15 wrote:

Also the person criticizing a suggestion that BW acquire a few 777 or 787 aircraft is foolish shows that they have no concept of any airline economics. Airlines do all they can to make money whether its starting or dropping routes or flying mixture of aircraft types etc.

The only difference here is that airlines don't just haphazardly purchase/lease big shiny planes just because Boeing & Airbus manufacture them & because they are capable of flying to distant destinations. Suggesting that a small Caribbean carrier (that could not even get London to work with the 2 B763s they had) acquire multiple B777s, B787s etc. to fly to other destinations across Europe does not even remotely make any sense. I may not have any concept of airline economics, but your concept of it is certainly very flawed.

Rmjhjr wrote:

And how many have Jamaica gained? Why don't I hear about the gains? Why don't I see the celebrations...

Don't hold your breath. You will never see that. Carriers increase or inaugurate services to MBJ... deafening silence. A carrier decides to drop MBJ... mass fanfare & headlines by some. Lol.

lovebird wrote:

Let's hope they don't use the same old boring tower design that they used for KIN and MBJ!

Rmjhjr wrote:

Lol... I passed there the other day and well, underwhelming. You actually don't recognize the place until you're halfway passing there.

I don't really have an issue with the design per say. Just that I was expecting them to be a bit higher. But I guess they are high enough to effectively do what they were designed to do. I was expecting the structures to be painted as well. I am not sure if they have plans to.

guyanam wrote:

Understand this OJ is a GUYANESE airline regardless as to what their AOC says.

Not sure why you have quoted me on this, but I have never once argued that OJ is a Jamaican carrier.

airjamaica wrote:

beeweel15 wrote:

The bottom line the LAX-MBJ route did not work as planned and was dropped.

So what? Big deal... Is LAX-MBJ the only route that has ever been dropped by AA?

beeweel15 wrote:

Also the person criticizing a suggestion that BW acquire a few 777 or 787 aircraft is foolish shows that they have no concept of any airline economics. Airlines do all they can to make money whether its starting or dropping routes or flying mixture of aircraft types etc.

The only difference here is that airlines don't just haphazardly purchase/lease big shiny planes just because Boeing & Airbus manufacture them & because they are capable of flying to distant destinations. Suggesting that a small Caribbean carrier (that could not even get London to work with the 2 B763s they had) acquire multiple B777s, B787s etc. to fly to other destinations across Europe does not even remotely make any sense. I may not have any concept of airline economics, but your concept of it is certainly very flawed.

Rmjhjr wrote:

And how many have Jamaica gained? Why don't I hear about the gains? Why don't I see the celebrations...

Don't hold your breath. You will never see that. Carriers increase or inaugurate services to MBJ... deafening silence. A carrier decides to drop MBJ... mass fanfare & headlines by some. Lol.

lovebird wrote:

Let's hope they don't use the same old boring tower design that they used for KIN and MBJ!

Rmjhjr wrote:

Lol... I passed there the other day and well, underwhelming. You actually don't recognize the place until you're halfway passing there.

I don't really have an issue with the design per say. Just that I was expecting them to be a bit higher. But I guess they are high enough to effectively do what they were designed to do. I was expecting the structures to be painted as well. I am not sure if they have plans to.

guyanam wrote:

Understand this OJ is a GUYANESE airline regardless as to what their AOC says.

Not sure why you have quoted me on this, but I have never once argued that OJ is a Jamaican carrier.

You are taking things way to personal lol. Plus I am glad you admitted you have no concept of airline economics. LAX-MBJ is not the only route dropped by AA for lack of profitability etc. Yes many airlines start MBJ and when it works great but when it fails and there is speculations that the route will fail or be dropped before even starts and it happens both before and after you put up all the defense to show why the route is viable and your defense gets struck down you resort to saying that folks who was right in the first place are Jamaica bashing.

Anyway lets change the subject. Does anyone know if the ERJ145 or larger ERJ175 can operate out of the Ian Flemming Airport

beeweel15 wrote:

Plus I am glad you admitted you have no concept of airline economics.

At least I am honest. By contrast you continue to convince yourself that you are knowledgeable about airline economics simply because you are an employee at JFK airport. Again working at JFK doesn't magically qualify you as being an expert in airline economics. If were truly an expert in that field you wouldn't be suggesting that BW should gobble up 777s & 787s to 'expand' across the European continent.

beeweel15 wrote:

LAX-MBJ is not the only route dropped by AA for lack of profitability etc.

My sentiments exactly. Which is why there is no need for the major headlines & 'breaking news' fanfare.


Well this year promises to be another impressive one where arrival figures are concerned...

"More new flights..."

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/-un ... ths_135213

I am sure the Sunwing/Royalton tie up is a significant player in this equation. But it's a good look.

airjamaica wrote:

beeweel15 wrote:

Plus I am glad you admitted you have no concept of airline economics.

At least I am honest. By contrast you continue to convince yourself that you are knowledgeable about airline economics simply because you are an employee at JFK airport. Again working at JFK doesn't magically qualify you as being an expert in airline economics. If were truly an expert in that field you wouldn't be suggesting that BW should gobble up 777s & 787s to 'expand' across the European continent.

beeweel15 wrote:

LAX-MBJ is not the only route dropped by AA for lack of profitability etc.

My sentiments exactly. Which is why there is no need for the major headlines & 'breaking news' fanfare.


Well this year promises to be another impressive one where arrival figures are concerned...

"More new flights..."

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/-un ... ths_135213

I am sure the Sunwing/Royalton tie up is a significant player in this equation. But it's a good look.

So what if I work at JFK Airport. I do many things there. I will tell you this I cross check my information and crunch numbers and I can safely tell you you can make money with a 787 / 777 aircraft in the Caribbean and as for BW or even the old JM and OJ many of us, who you say are bashing JM/OJ or Jamaica, have mentioned ways these airlines can make money and problems they have but you rarely if ever agree with the suggestions or reasons. And time and time again you are proven wrong. Also I will tell you on the other thread which the entire Caribbean is discussed the other airlines dont get off the hook in the discussions however things are not taken personally there and constructive conversations discuss the solutions. So I challenge you come over to the Caribbean Thread and discuss things there or are you afraid that many of your arguments will be debunked.

[quote="airjamaica"]Don't hold your breath. You will never see that. Carriers increase or inaugurate services to MBJ... deafening silence. A carrier decides to drop MBJ... mass fanfare & headlines by some. Lol.]

We don't need to add to the cheers of the Jamaican flag wavers. Even when an idea makes no sense like flights from Ethiopia and Armenia they cheer. We only offer that level of cheering when the Jamaican team medals well at the Olympics. We certainly all cheered for Usain. I expect that the xenophobic gang would rant that he is a Jamaican so why are Trinis and Guyanese and Bajans cheering for him.

I suggested Colombia (3X weekly) and the Jamaica cheering section criticized that. Only because JTB was then fixated with Brazil. So now that JTB sees that this market made sense, when I knew that a while back what then? I now suggest that they also work on getting AM into MBJ and that it can be used to develop the Mexico market and also possibly feed from flights out of Asia thru MEX. This either on a code share or interline basis. Asia and Mexico markets....2 birds with one stone. I suggested that too when folks fixated on OJ flights to GRU.

I guess this is another example of "Jamaica bashing!".

beeweel15 wrote:

[So I challenge you come over to the Caribbean Thread and discuss things there or are you afraid that many of your arguments will be debunked.

They certainly read that thread and in fact post clippings on this thread that do not pertain to Jamaica. Guyana is mentioned as were Inter Carib's expanded service within the Eastern Caribbean. BW's new flights to HAV and Insel's problems. Even PY has come up. All topics discussed on the Caribbean thread. None specific to Jamaica. And I don't mind because at the end of the day we are all Caribbean people and if the focus of the two threads differ they are free to discuss these topics here.

You and I have battled but you don't whine that I hate Trinidad, even though at times I was critical about operations at Piarco and how T&T entities treat other Caribbean people. I do know that some here fled from the Caribbean thread when they battled with the Trinis. I know that I joined this forum when I was tired of claims by some that Guyanese "love" BW. The Jamaican gang embraced me then as part of their crew and I received several private messages from some of them. Now I am the enemy because I don't cheer the JTB every time it issues a press release.

airjamaica wrote:

"More new flights..."http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/-un ... ths_135213I am sure the Sunwing/Royalton tie up is a significant player in this equation. But it's a good look.

This will be an interesting weekend as tomorrow we will have the following capacity up gauges. This is subjected to change.

UA will fly their B739s from-ORD, EWR, IAH and IAD.
DL will fly from ATL-B739, 2 A321( I will RON) and a B752.


Latest Data from FR24.

Top routes from MBJ

#1 FLL
48 flights/week
#2 CLT
33 flights/week
#3 JFK
28 flights/week
#4 YYZ
28 flights/week
#5 BWI
26 flights/week
#6 ATL
25 flights/week
#7 MIA
24 flights/week
#8 PHL
17 flights/week
#9 MCO
16 flights/week
#10 DFW
11 flights/week
**********************************
Top routes from KIN

#1 FLL
35 flights/week
#2 JFK
32 flights/week
#3 MIA
27 flights/week
#4 MBJ
13 flights/week
#5 YYZ
11 flights/week
#6 ATL
8 flights/week
#7 PLS
8 flights/week
#8 GCM
8 flights/week
#9 PTY
6 flights/week
#10 GEO
5 flights/week

Interesting and information series has been running in Jamaica


Guyana in Transition - part one
http://rjrnewsonline.com/opinion/guyana ... n-part-one

Very valid points. The only chatter from the government of Guyana is about oil. Promises that huge wealth will accrue once the oil starts running. Even after reports that Exxon will recoup the billions of hundreds of millions of dollars of exploratory costs before the full benefits accrue. Not much talk about how Guyana will get value added beyond the royalties paid to the government.

To show the naivety of the Guyana gov't rather than demanding a share of the revenues from this venture they received a share of the profits. Multinationals are infamous for playing games with where they show their profits and Guyana lacks the expertise in doing the forensic audits to ensure that it gets its fair share. This is why most go for revenue sharing as that is harder to hide as it is generated by how much oil is produced and what price it sells for.

Another issue is that there is no talk about what value added will accrue to Guyana as well as what spin off effects will impact the economy. As of now it looks like hotel accommodation and catering for people on the oil rigs as well as moderate cargo activity as supplies are imported before transfer to the rigs. Also more air service and AA is set up precisely for this purpose. Even the timing of these flights suites the business traveler who isnt in Guyana to sightsee, wanting to get in and out quickly.

When asked what will T&T do as their own supplies of oil begin to dwindle the response was one word. "Guyana". They have the facilities, infrastructure, expertise and ancillary services already in place and Trinidad is under 300 miles from where these oil fields are located.

Latest MBJShots.

Orbest returns to MBJ. This is their second year on the route. Aircraft will be routed LIS-MBJ-AZS-LIS. Frequency is 1 weekly on Thurs. Service ends in Sept.
The aircraft seats 388Y.




Delta A320 from Atlanta. A321 photos will be uploaded next week.



American Airlines A319 and A321. PHL and CLT flights are all Airbus aircraft. B752s are used during peak season.





TUI Airways Boeing B789 arriving from Manchester.



Air Canada Rouge arriving from Toronto.


Double Delta MD88 action. Btw, both aircraft are over 28 years old.

hummingbird wrote:

Latest MBJShots.

Orbest returns to MBJ. This is their second year on the route. Aircraft will be routed LIS-MBJ-AZS-LIS. Frequency is 1 weekly on Thurs. Service ends in Sept.
The aircraft seats 388Y.




Delta A320 from Atlanta. A321 photos will be uploaded next week.



American Airlines A319 and A321. PHL and CLT flights are all Airbus aircraft. B752s are used during peak season.





TUI Airways Boeing B789 arriving from Manchester.



Air Canada Rouge arriving from Toronto.


Double Delta MD88 action. Btw, both aircraft are over 28 years old.

Great photo. I will be arriving tomorrow on WS in MBJ and it will give me an opportunity to see what the improvements in arrival are like.

beeweel15 wrote:

So what if I work at JFK Airport. I do many things there.

Nothing is wrong with you being employed at JFK Airport. But it doesn't translate to you being an expert in airline economics sorry.

beeweel15 wrote:

I will tell you this I cross check my information and crunch numbers and I can safely tell you you can make money with a 787 / 777 aircraft in the Caribbean

Maybe you can write a formal letter to or meet with the CEO at BW & suggest to them to acquire several 773s & 787s & to open several new routes in Europe, considering the London route did so well. Not certain what you are drinking, but I certainly don't want any.

beeweel15 wrote:

Also I will tell you on the other thread which the entire Caribbean is discussed the other airlines dont get off the hook in the discussions however things are not taken personally there and constructive conversations discuss the solutions.

You probably need to stay over there then.

beeweel15 wrote:

So I challenge you come over to the Caribbean Thread and discuss things there or are you afraid that many of your arguments will be debunked.

No thank you. Let us not forget that you embarrassed yourself over there with this BW acquiring B777s & B787s to fly all over the place argument as well. That argument was royally debunked by your counterparts.

guyanam wrote:

I suggested Colombia (3X weekly) and the Jamaica cheering section criticized that.

You did suggest Colombia 3x weekly, but as to that suggestion being "criticized"... gross exaggeration. I am still waiting on you to point out where I stated that OJ was a Jamaican carrier.

hummingbird wrote:

TUI Airways Boeing B789 arriving from Manchester.

I thought they flew from AMS to MBJ & Thompson from MAN. Or is it that TUI fly from both MAN & AMS to MBJ?

Airjamaica I dont know why you taking things so personally but I will remind you of your own words

airjamaica wrote:

I may not have any concept of airline economics.

airjamaica wrote:

I thought they flew from AMS to MBJ & Thompson from MAN. Or is it that TUI fly from both MAN & AMS to MBJ?

All airlines under their umbrella will be called TUI. Currently we receive flights from UK, Belgium and Holland. What differentiates them is their registrations. G- regs are from UK, PH-reg is Dutch and OO-reg is Belgian.

************************************
I took this from another FB page. Once completed airlines using rwy 25 for take off will be required to back track.



*******************************

Caribbean Airlines is looking to recruit Jamaican based crew members. Expansion on the horizon??



*******************************

Yesterday Liat posted an ad in the Jamaica-Gleaner. Looks like they are looking to open KIN in the near future.


****************************

As per this article, Sunwings will be using their recently acquired Max-8s from YVR. I have a feeling MBJ will see 2 weekly this upcoming winter.

President of Tour Operations for Sunwing, Andrew Dawson, commented on the news. "We’re very pleased to be introducing Costa Rica for the coming winter. As well as being renowned for its eco tours and adventures, this popular destination also stands out for the quality of its accommodation. With this new service, our Vancouver customers will be able to choose between two of our consistently most popular top-rated resorts, Riu Palace Costa Rica and Riu Guanacaste, or be among the first guests to experience the new Planet Hollywood Costa Rica, opening this fall. As an added benefit, we will be operating the flight service on our new Boeing 737 MAX 8 airplanes. The improved fuel efficiency of the MAX will also enable us to offer an increased number of direct flight services from our Western airports."
Last year, the travel company became the first to offer a direct flight service from Vancouver to Montego Bay, Jamaica. With the addition of Costa Rica, Vancouverites that travel with Sunwing will enjoy access to 11 different sun destinations from their doorstep this winter.

https://globenewswire.com/news-release/ ... -time.html

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KQ's schedule.
12:25 John F Kennedy International (JFK)
10:55 +1 day Jomo Kenyatta International (NBO)

23:25 Jomo Kenyatta International (NBO)
06:25 +1 day John F Kennedy International (JFK)

Notice the emphasis to Kingston. Delta their Skyteam partner, upcoming JFK flight does not connect with this service.

JFK-KIN
Dep-7:40am-Arr 12:40p

KIN-JFK
Dep-8:00am Arr 12:05pm

Canada — President Kenyatta has held talks with Jamaica Prime Minister Andrew Holness at the sidelines of the G7 Summit in Canada where the leaders agreed to get tangible bilateral relations moving between the two countries.
The two explored how to leverage on quick wins such like codeshare for airlines with Kenya Airways due to start non-stop flights from Nairobi to New York in October easing flight connections to Kingston, Jamaica, which is 3 hours from New York.

http://allafrica.com/stories/201806100170.html

https://www.capitalfm.co.ke/business/20 ... e-jamaica/

Exchange of athletics coaches also featured at the talks between President Kenyatta and Prime Minister Holness. Jamaican athletes are top in short races while Kenya is top in long-distance running.
On boosting trade between the two countries, President Kenyatta and Prime Minister Holness agreed that Kenya could export its tea and coffee to Jamaica and in turn import their peanuts.
President Kenyatta also pledged commitment to work with Jamaica in ensuring the African, Caribbean and Pacific Group of States (ACP) speak with one voice and is not splintered along continent lines.
“We must strive to speak in one voice. We are weaker when splintered,” President Kenyatta said.

https://citizentv.co.ke/news/kenya-to-o ... ca-203494/