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2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:19 pm
by iyerhari
Hello, as airports start reporting their total passenger rankings for the calendar year 2017 this thread is for reporting the total passenger traffic (deplaned + enplaned) statistics for key US large airports. My rankings do not consider the very large US large hubs which are massive airports which occupy the top 7 spots (ATL, LAX, ORD, DFW, JFK, DEN, SFO).

The totals and rankings includes airports for US airports starting from ranking 8 through 21. I took the rankings from 2016 as the baseline. The original intent of the metrics was primarily to compare statistics with Boston Logan but eventually this progressed into additional interesting insights. BOS was an interesting case especially after it saw a major international carrier push starting 2014 and it has continued to climb but now is coming close to fortress hubs.

All along, VS4ever significantly helped me in providing guidance (and still continues to!).

I have also excluded non-revenue pax from my total passenger reporting. In this category of airports, the following have not yet reported their November numbers so the rankings are not yet complete but it gives a direction where we are heading: PHL, EWR, LGA. CLT has not yet reported their October and November-2017 numbers.

(Sorry I do not know how to add a picture and read the fine print that it needs to be first added to a website and then uploaded here - I have not done it so will try to figure that out next).

Ranking Airport Total pax International pax
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
8 LAS 44,571,956 3,645,696
9 CLT 34,385,140 2,692,804
10 SEA 42,755,407 4,683,885
11 MCO 40,529,094 3,135,985
12 PHX 40,200,418 1,858,331
13 MIA 40,074,242 19,531,100
14 IAH 36,919,392 9,315,921
15 EWR 36,302,326 10,861,561
16 BOS 35,304,690 6,679,666
17 MSP 33,962,313 2,514,176
18 DTW 32,001,529 2,818,101
19 FLL 29,469,583 6,453,082
20 PHL 24,789,377 3,481,634
21 LGA 24,322,365 1,741,697

Key notes from the rankings:
1. BOS will certainly overtake MSP this year and will be #16 this year. Over the course of three years, the airport has consistently improved its ranking beating PHL-2015, DTW-2016 and this year MSP-2017. There are few growth points this year so will see how this works out.
2. EWR is definitely going to take ranking 14 this year beating IAH this year. EWR numbers do not consider Nov numbers so it is definitely going to be higher.
3. MCO has had another fantastic year and has climbed several numbers and at number 11 vs. 14 in 2016
4. CLT looks to be on target to be #9 and if I use the 2016 numbers just for arithmetic purposes, it looks good. Will continue to monitor when the official numbers come out.
5. FLL has climbed places this year. Last year they were 21 but this year it has overtaken PHL and LGA.
6. PHL and LGA are going to very close. Both have not reported their Nov numbers so will continue to see how this works out between them

Appreciate any insights and inputs to improvise the numbers and tally.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:43 pm
by Dominion301
How come you're excluding non-revs as airports include them? Airports normally count every passenger that passes through its terminals.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:52 pm
by iyerhari
Sorry while I was adding the numbers, I had read the literature that non-rev essentially included airline staffs, airline executives. I could not find details if airports count them. If that is the case, I will add the numbers. FYI, not all airports provide that in their breakdown. E.g. BOS, MSP, and maybe few more provide that in their monthly reporting. I forgot this ask this question to the Logan lady who works in analytics. Thanks for your insights. I will update the numbers.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:12 pm
by iyerhari
Thanks for pointing this out. I went ahead and updated the numbers to include non-revenue pax for airports that report out. Interesting I should say - needless to say hub airports have a large number of non-revenue pax vs. airports such as BOS. Again, EWR and LGA haven't reported their Nov-2017 numbers.

Ranking Airport Total pax International pax
8 LAS 44,571,956 3,645,696
9 CLT 34,385,140 2,692,804
10 SEA 42,755,407 4,683,885
11 MCO 40,529,094 3,135,985
12 PHX 40,200,418 1,858,331
13 MIA 40,074,242 19,531,100
14 IAH 36,919,392 9,315,921
15 EWR 37,374,442 10,861,561
16 BOS 35,480,061 6,679,666
17 MSP 35,106,105 2,514,176
18 DTW 32,001,529 2,818,101
19 FLL 29,469,583 6,453,082
20 PHL 27,196,842 3,723,057
21 LGA 25,011,704 1,741,697

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:50 pm
by airplaneboy
Thanks for sharing this. Is there a way to see the breakdown between O&D passengers?

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:12 pm
by slowrambler
For CLT, do you mean 44,385,140?

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:18 pm
by axiom
Very interesting - thanks for compiling. Out of curiosity, what was the rationale for stopping at airport 21? Why not include all of the airports the FAA defines as large hub? There are only a few missing.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:35 pm
by iyerhari
That is going to be really challenging looking at just cross numbers and going to be an activity for the next upcoming months. Easiest said - airlines report their metrics by stations to airport analysts every month. One will have to use T-100 and see if then calculate the numbers.

Sorry one other clarification. CLT has not reported their Oct and Nov-2017 numbers.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:36 pm
by klm617
Pretty sad showing for Detroit. With 2 hub carriers.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:43 pm
by iyerhari
axiom wrote:
Very interesting - thanks for compiling. Out of curiosity, what was the rationale for stopping at airport 21? Why not include all of the airports the FAA defines as large hub? There are only a few missing.
slowrambler wrote:
For CLT, do you mean 44,385,140?

Sorry I missed providing a clarification in my earlier message. CLT is currently at 34,385,140 and the reason it shows that way is because they haven't reported their October and November numbers. In 2016, there were number 9 and I strongly believe they will be around that or possibly 8 depending on how the next three months progresses.

axiom wrote:
Very interesting - thanks for compiling. Out of curiosity, what was the rationale for stopping at airport 21? Why not include all of the airports the FAA defines as large hub? There are only a few missing.


The original rationale was to do comparison with BOS which evolved to include other airports. Based on the definition, I believe that would include BWI, DCA, SLC, MDW, IAD, SAN, HNL, TPA and PDX. I am actually working on adding this list except it takes time :) I plan to include them in my next update. More to come :)

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:51 pm
by axiom
That's awesome - I'd love to see more! Thanks for the effort. Data is fun, as is reading how people interpret it :)

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:55 pm
by kngkyle
ORD will end the year just shy of 80 million which will put it behind ATL and LAX in the US.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:58 pm
by dfwjim1
What's interesting is that FLL is considered the "secondary" airport to MIA but is ranked 19, ahead of many "main" airports in the United States. Plus its international numbers are strong too.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:59 pm
by Dominion301
iyerhari wrote:
Sorry while I was adding the numbers, I had read the literature that non-rev essentially included airline staffs, airline executives. I could not find details if airports count them. If that is the case, I will add the numbers. FYI, not all airports provide that in their breakdown. E.g. BOS, MSP, and maybe few more provide that in their monthly reporting. I forgot this ask this question to the Logan lady who works in analytics. Thanks for your insights. I will update the numbers.


Non-revs also include pax travelling on reward seats...at least that's how the airline I used to work for defined them.

Most airports won't break out non-revs out and will be included in the grand totals. Non-revs of course still have to pay all taxes/airport fees.

This differs from deadheading crews, which aren't counted in pax stats and they don't pay taxes/fees.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:06 pm
by usairways85
PHL is going to see the lowest passenger total in the past 20-25 years. But 2018 will be somewhat of a bounce back year with 4 new international flights.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:24 pm
by VS4ever
iyerhari wrote:
All along, VS4ever significantly helped me in providing guidance (and still continues to!).

I have also excluded non-revenue pax from my total passenger reporting. In this category of airports, the following have not yet reported their November numbers so the rankings are not yet complete but it gives a direction where we are heading: PHL, EWR, LGA. CLT has not yet reported their October and November-2017 numbers.

(Sorry I do not know how to add a picture and read the fine print that it needs to be first added to a website and then uploaded here - I have not done it so will try to figure that out next).


Thanks iyerhari for the shoutout. I actually have uploaded the information to the web, but it's an old version, so i don't want to confuse people with different numbers. I will update it tonight and publish the link for everyone, As mentioned we did this as part of a whole suite of reporting I do for the New England area (although i am trying to extend to NY, NJ and PA, when i get a chance, but it's quite a bit of work to create the reporting format i use. However this piece is very much iyerhari's work, I just provide the 2nd set of eyes.
Stay tuned.
FYI, we could extend further to other airports, but the biggest problem child was HNL, if anyone has an inside track to figure that one out, i would certainly be all ears on it, but it's certainly work to keep track of each one and there really are no consistent formats over a wide scale. JFK/EWR/LGA/SWF are all covered by PANYNJ, IAH/HOU are reported together, IAD/DCA and to an extent BWI are reported together, along with ORD/MDW, but otherwise it's a case of picking up the numbers out of a mass of figures. It's a fun game i can tell you, so kudos to iyerhari for doing it.

I'll be back to everyone with the updated file once it's complete. T-100's for July came out yesterday (Oct for Domestic), so have been trying to get to the bottom of the disastrous reporting by EI for the month in terms of missing information.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:03 pm
by iyerhari
Hello All, I have compiled the statistics of all large airports in the US. I could not obtain any monthly statistics of HNL - if anyone knows how and where they post their monthly statistics, please let me know. Based on what I saw I believe they (HNL) just post an annual summary report at the end of the calendar year.

Here is the net standing. Couple of additional points to be noted:

1. DCA and IAD have not posted their Nov-2017 numbers so numbers look skewed. But overall, I believe SLC looks to be overtaking DCA this year unless DCA pulls it through in Nov and Dec. SLC looks to be at ranking 23 vs. 24 from last year.
2. IAD has a chance to go over SAN and MDW or maybe at the same position. All depends on how they perform in the next 2 months. Difficult to predict as numbers look very tight between SAN, MDW and IAD.
3. No changes to other set of airports - CLT has not reported Oct, Nov-2017 numbers. LGA, EWR have not reported Nov-2017 numbers.
4. Based on Wiki, HNL ranks number 28 but I am unable to compile any statistics as I cannot find it; so my overall ranking may appear incorrect especially when looking at TPA and PDX but have provided the reason.

Ranking Airport Total pax International pax
--------------------------------------------------------------------
8 LAS 44,571,956 3,645,696
9 CLT 34,385,140 2,692,804
10 SEA 42,755,407 4,683,885
11 MCO 40,529,094 3,135,985
12 PHX 40,200,418 1,858,331
13 MIA 40,074,242 19,531,100
14 IAH 36,919,392 9,315,921
15 EWR 37,374,442 10,861,561
16 BOS 35,480,061 6,679,666
17 MSP 35,106,105 2,514,176
18 DTW 32,001,529 2,818,101
19 FLL 29,469,583 6,453,082
20 PHL 27,196,842 3,723,057
21 LGA 25,011,704 1,741,697
22 BWI 24,232,648 1,073,371
23 SLC 22,266,674 854,613
24 DCA 20,103,225 317,602
25 MDW 20,668,649 756,277
26 SAN 20,317,829 810,133
27 IAD 19,207,073 6,586,079
28 TPA 17,714,978 829,647
29 PDX 16,813,520 689,755

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:10 pm
by iyerhari
klm617 wrote:
Pretty sad showing for Detroit. With 2 hub carriers.

I agree - that is the story for some of the other fortress hubs like MSP too - they are beginning to languish despite being a strong hub.

kngkyle wrote:
ORD will end the year just shy of 80 million which will put it behind ATL and LAX in the US.

Mega-hub airports such as ORD, ATL, LAX etc. are in a very different league :) As a comparison, the number of pax that ATL flies in one year is equivalent to 3 years of Logan approx. :)

Dominion301 wrote:
Non-revs also include pax travelling on reward seats...at least that's how the airline I used to work for defined them.

Most airports won't break out non-revs out and will be included in the grand totals. Non-revs of course still have to pay all taxes/airport fees.

This differs from deadheading crews, which aren't counted in pax stats and they don't pay taxes/fees.

Thank you for the clarification!

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:18 pm
by mcogator
Based on your numbers, non-revs make up 10% of an airports traffic numbers? Or is this only for 11 months?

MCOs latest press release states this:

https://orlandoairports.net/press/2018/ ... -november/

November 2017 Statistical Data:

Domestic passenger traffic climbed 6.36 percent with 3,224,980 total passengers for the month.

International traffic soared by double-digits, up 12.61 percent with 454,180 international arrivals and departures in November

Combined, overall traffic was up 7 percent with 3,679,160 travelers at MCO in November

On a rolling 12-month basis overall traffic at MCO is up 6 percent, climbing to a new record of 44,309,144


I expected them to surpass MIA and PHX, but maybe also CLT.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:24 pm
by OslPhlWasChi
usairways85 wrote:
PHL is going to see the lowest passenger total in the past 20-25 years. But 2018 will be somewhat of a bounce back year with 4 new international flights.


The gist is true but a little exaggerated. The 2017 numbers are trending towards about 29.5 million. The last time annual passengers were that low was 2004 when annual passengers was 28.5 million.
Same goes for 2017 international pax which is trending towards 3.5 million and the last time numbers were that low were in 2003 when the number was under 3.2 million.

So 2017 will be the lowest in 13-14 years.

But yes, I too anticipate an upward trend in 2018 due to not just the international adds for 2018 but also added domestic connections by AA, continued adds by F9, and an expectation that right-sizing post AA/US merger is more or less done (which was the single source of the decrease as seen by AA passenger drops at PHL the last two years).

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:32 pm
by iyerhari
[quote="mcogator"]Based on your numbers, non-revs make up 10% of an airports traffic numbers? Or is this only for 11 months?

MCOs latest press release states this:

https://orlandoairports.net/press/2018/ ... -november/

I do not know from where they got the numbers but if you navigate here: navigate to https://www.orlandoairports.net/about-us/ -> Traffic Statistics section -> Airline activity report and select November-2017 you will be able to get the numbers. I use a month-by-month total and my number is off by 100K - in the sense lesser than what MCO computed and I do not know how that is happening because I have checked my totals on a month basis. MCO overtaking CLT, SEA is possible unless they have a superb Dec numbers. Let's see - will keep u posted.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:40 pm
by airzona11
Thanks for sharing.

PHX has to have the most boring 40million. 737s and A320s with the occasional non AA/WN bird and the BA 747. Don't get me wrong, hometown airport, Love to see the numbers up.

The scale of passenger flights in the US is amazing. That is moving a lot of people.

iyerhari wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Pretty sad showing for Detroit. With 2 hub carriers.

I agree - that is the story for some of the other fortress hubs like MSP too - they are beginning to languish despite being a strong hub.
!


What is languishing about hubs connecting 32 and 35 million passengers?

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:46 pm
by iyerhari
airzona11 wrote:
Thanks for sharing.

I agree - that is the story for some of the other fortress hubs like MSP too - they are beginning to languish despite being a strong hub.
!


What is languishing about hubs connecting 32 and 35 million passengers?[/quote]
Aforesaid, the prime basis of my analysis was with BOS that started to include several interesting analysis. BOS is not a fortress hub (although many in the forum will say DL and B6 consider it their hub - won't argue on that) - BOS has recorded stronger and a diverse growth than several fortress hubs such as DTW, PHL, MSP etc. and now getting closer to IAH. That is all I was indicating to say.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:24 pm
by axiom
How did you arrive at those TPA numbers? Their rolling Dec 16 - Nov 17 number is 19.44 million, and today on twitter I saw them announce that their 2017 total was 19.6 or so.
Very fascinating list!

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:34 pm
by iyerhari
axiom wrote:
How did you arrive at those TPA numbers? Their rolling Dec 16 - Nov 17 number is 19.44 million, and today on twitter I saw them announce that their 2017 total was 19.6 or so.
Very fascinating list!

I only considered the 2017 calendar year starting from Jan-2017. I did not consider Dec-2016 in my calculations.
mcogator wrote:
Based on your numbers, non-revs make up 10% of an airports traffic numbers? Or is this only for 11 months?

MCOs latest press release states this:

https://orlandoairports.net/press/2018/ ... -november/

November 2017 Statistical Data:

Domestic passenger traffic climbed 6.36 percent with 3,224,980 total passengers for the month.

International traffic soared by double-digits, up 12.61 percent with 454,180 international arrivals and departures in November

Combined, overall traffic was up 7 percent with 3,679,160 travelers at MCO in November

On a rolling 12-month basis overall traffic at MCO is up 6 percent, climbing to a new record of 44,309,144


I expected them to surpass MIA and PHX, but maybe also CLT.


I went through all the numbers and I am certain of my math and my excel :) . The only way I believe the 100K is showing up more is probably the non-revenue pax and how they report monthly numbers which I take exactly as-is and I am sorry I cannot give any other explanation.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:00 am
by Utah744
klm617 wrote:
Pretty sad showing for Detroit. With 2 hub carriers.

I've been retired for ten years so I'm not up to date but I can't think of another airline that has a hub at DTW.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:09 am
by iyerhari
Utah744 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Pretty sad showing for Detroit. With 2 hub carriers.

I've been retired for ten years so I'm not up to date but I can't think of another airline that has a hub at DTW.

NK also is a DTW hub.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:11 am
by mcogator
iyerhari wrote:
mcogator wrote:
Based on your numbers, non-revs make up 10% of an airports traffic numbers? Or is this only for 11 months?

MCOs latest press release states this:

https://orlandoairports.net/press/2018/ ... -november/

I do not know from where they got the numbers but if you navigate here: navigate to https://www.orlandoairports.net/about-us/ -> Traffic Statistics section -> Airline activity report and select November-2017 you will be able to get the numbers. I use a month-by-month total and my number is off by 100K - in the sense lesser than what MCO computed and I do not know how that is happening because I have checked my totals on a month basis. MCO overtaking CLT, SEA is possible unless they have a superb Dec numbers. Let's see - will keep u posted.

I see a 4 million difference, 44 vs 40.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:26 am
by iyerhari
mcogator wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
mcogator wrote:
Based on your numbers, non-revs make up 10% of an airports traffic numbers? Or is this only for 11 months?

MCOs latest press release states this:

https://orlandoairports.net/press/2018/ ... -november/

I do not know from where they got the numbers but if you navigate here: navigate to https://www.orlandoairports.net/about-us/ -> Traffic Statistics section -> Airline activity report and select November-2017 you will be able to get the numbers. I use a month-by-month total and my number is off by 100K - in the sense lesser than what MCO computed and I do not know how that is happening because I have checked my totals on a month basis. MCO overtaking CLT, SEA is possible unless they have a superb Dec numbers. Let's see - will keep u posted.

I see a 4 million difference, 44 vs 40.

Missed the most obvious from the press release. It is a 12-month rolling and if you include the Dec-2016 numbers you get an exact number 44,209,144 + 100K = 44,309,144 which is what the press release states. My number takes the calendar year of 2017 only. Hope this explains.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:35 am
by flybynight
So SEA will likely be number 8 based on the total numbers?
Impressive growth at SEA and more coming in 2018 with even more international flights.

Now they just need to complete the updates so SEA doesn't burst at the seam.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:42 am
by klm617
airzona11 wrote:
Thanks for sharing.

PHX has to have the most boring 40million. 737s and A320s with the occasional non AA/WN bird and the BA 747. Don't get me wrong, hometown airport, Love to see the numbers up.

The scale of passenger flights in the US is amazing. That is moving a lot of people.

iyerhari wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Pretty sad showing for Detroit. With 2 hub carriers.

I agree - that is the story for some of the other fortress hubs like MSP too - they are beginning to languish despite being a strong hub.
!


What is languishing about hubs connecting 32 and 35 million passengers?


Because they are every other hub is the USA is growing while Detroit is stagnant and losing ground. Even some airports with small hub operations are moving more passengers than these primary hubs.An airlines hubs should grow at the same rate of better than the national increase and at DTW that's not happening it's standing still even tough the economy and air travel is on the rise.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:00 am
by Lennundus
klm617 wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
Thanks for sharing.

PHX has to have the most boring 40million. 737s and A320s with the occasional non AA/WN bird and the BA 747. Don't get me wrong, hometown airport, Love to see the numbers up.

The scale of passenger flights in the US is amazing. That is moving a lot of people.

iyerhari wrote:
I agree - that is the story for some of the other fortress hubs like MSP too - they are beginning to languish despite being a strong hub.
!


What is languishing about hubs connecting 32 and 35 million passengers?


Because they are every other hub is the USA is growing while Detroit is stagnant and losing ground. Even some airports with small hub operations are moving more passengers than these primary hubs.An airlines hubs should grow at the same rate of better than the national increase and at DTW that's not happening it's standing still even tough the economy and air travel is on the rise.


Not every other hub is growing. PHX has lost 3 million passengers compared to last year.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:05 am
by axiom
iyerhari wrote:
axiom wrote:
How did you arrive at those TPA numbers? Their rolling Dec 16 - Nov 17 number is 19.44 million, and today on twitter I saw them announce that their 2017 total was 19.6 or so.
Very fascinating list!

I only considered the 2017 calendar year starting from Jan-2017. I did not consider Dec-2016 in my calculations.
mcogator wrote:
Based on your numbers, non-revs make up 10% of an airports traffic numbers? Or is this only for 11 months?

MCOs latest press release states this:

https://orlandoairports.net/press/2018/ ... -november/

November 2017 Statistical Data:

Domestic passenger traffic climbed 6.36 percent with 3,224,980 total passengers for the month.

International traffic soared by double-digits, up 12.61 percent with 454,180 international arrivals and departures in November

Combined, overall traffic was up 7 percent with 3,679,160 travelers at MCO in November

On a rolling 12-month basis overall traffic at MCO is up 6 percent, climbing to a new record of 44,309,144


I expected them to surpass MIA and PHX, but maybe also CLT.


I went through all the numbers and I am certain of my math and my excel :) . The only way I believe the 100K is showing up more is probably the non-revenue pax and how they report monthly numbers which I take exactly as-is and I am sorry I cannot give any other explanation.


Ah, so you're missing a month for TPA for 2017?

Thanks again!

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:08 am
by axiom
iyerhari wrote:
Utah744 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Pretty sad showing for Detroit. With 2 hub carriers.

I've been retired for ten years so I'm not up to date but I can't think of another airline that has a hub at DTW.

NK also is a DTW hub.


Does NK ever even eclipse 40 flights a day at DTW? Operating base, sure, but it's hardly a connecting hub, by any definition.

By that flight measure, WN has 20+ hubs.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:13 am
by iyerhari
axiom wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
axiom wrote:
How did you arrive at those TPA numbers? Their rolling Dec 16 - Nov 17 number is 19.44 million, and today on twitter I saw them announce that their 2017 total was 19.6 or so.
Very fascinating list!

I only considered the 2017 calendar year starting from Jan-2017. I did not consider Dec-2016 in my calculations.
mcogator wrote:
Based on your numbers, non-revs make up 10% of an airports traffic numbers? Or is this only for 11 months?

MCOs latest press release states this:

https://orlandoairports.net/press/2018/ ... -november/



I expected them to surpass MIA and PHX, but maybe also CLT.


I went through all the numbers and I am certain of my math and my excel :) . The only way I believe the 100K is showing up more is probably the non-revenue pax and how they report monthly numbers which I take exactly as-is and I am sorry I cannot give any other explanation.


Ah, so you're missing a month for TPA for 2017?

Thanks again!

I will add Dec-2017 when they report that. I am only considering the calendar year and not rolling figure. Please stay tuned as airports start reporting their Dec 2017 numbers starting next week.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:20 am
by axiom
iyerhari wrote:
axiom wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
I only considered the 2017 calendar year starting from Jan-2017. I did not consider Dec-2016 in my calculations.

I went through all the numbers and I am certain of my math and my excel :) . The only way I believe the 100K is showing up more is probably the non-revenue pax and how they report monthly numbers which I take exactly as-is and I am sorry I cannot give any other explanation.


Ah, so you're missing a month for TPA for 2017?

Thanks again!

I will add Dec-2017 when they report that. I am only considering the calendar year and not rolling figure. Please stay tuned as airports start reporting their Dec 2017 numbers starting next week.

Great, cheers!

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:07 am
by klm617
axiom wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
Utah744 wrote:
I've been retired for ten years so I'm not up to date but I can't think of another airline that has a hub at DTW.

NK also is a DTW hub.


Does NK ever even eclipse 40 flights a day at DTW? Operating base, sure, but it's hardly a connecting hub, by any definition.

By that flight measure, WN has 20+ hubs.



I am only quoting the general conciseness on this board that NK maintains a hub operation at Detroit.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:11 am
by klm617
Lennundus wrote:
klm617 wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
Thanks for sharing.

PHX has to have the most boring 40million. 737s and A320s with the occasional non AA/WN bird and the BA 747. Don't get me wrong, hometown airport, Love to see the numbers up.

The scale of passenger flights in the US is amazing. That is moving a lot of people.



What is languishing about hubs connecting 32 and 35 million passengers?


Because they are every other hub is the USA is growing while Detroit is stagnant and losing ground. Even some airports with small hub operations are moving more passengers than these primary hubs.An airlines hubs should grow at the same rate of better than the national increase and at DTW that's not happening it's standing still even tough the economy and air travel is on the rise.


Not every other hub is growing. PHX has lost 3 million passengers compared to last year.



Yes but it still maintains a strong position at 40 million AA has 5 basic hubs and 4 of those hubs exceed the numbers that DTW and MSP are posting.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:24 am
by SESGDL
klm617 wrote:
Lennundus wrote:
klm617 wrote:

Because they are every other hub is the USA is growing while Detroit is stagnant and losing ground. Even some airports with small hub operations are moving more passengers than these primary hubs.An airlines hubs should grow at the same rate of better than the national increase and at DTW that's not happening it's standing still even tough the economy and air travel is on the rise.


Not every other hub is growing. PHX has lost 3 million passengers compared to last year.



Yes but it still maintains a strong position at 40 million AA has 5 basic hubs and 4 of those hubs exceed the numbers that DTW and MSP are posting.


PHX is a double hub, MSP and DTW are not (and don’t mention NK and SY because they have fewer than 30-40 flights at each airport).

Jeremy

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:27 am
by cm642
PHX hasn't rolled out their numbers for the month of December, they were already up to 40.2 million by the end of November.

https://www.skyharbor.com/About/Information/AirportStatistics

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:36 am
by airzona11
klm617 wrote:
Lennundus wrote:
klm617 wrote:

Because they are every other hub is the USA is growing while Detroit is stagnant and losing ground. Even some airports with small hub operations are moving more passengers than these primary hubs.An airlines hubs should grow at the same rate of better than the national increase and at DTW that's not happening it's standing still even tough the economy and air travel is on the rise.


Not every other hub is growing. PHX has lost 3 million passengers compared to last year.



Yes but it still maintains a strong position at 40 million AA has 5 basic hubs and 4 of those hubs exceed the numbers that DTW and MSP are posting.


PHX is also a larger metro. Not a close to other major metros. And has hubs from AA and WN. And has a larger tourist draw.

But no need to cry about DTW, it carried a million more INTL passengers.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:15 am
by DBun
looks like you have last years numbers for PDX. November of 2017 has 17,508,854

https://popcdn.azureedge.net/pdfs/Nov2017webstats.pdf

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:27 pm
by iyerhari
DBun wrote:
looks like you have last years numbers for PDX. November of 2017 has 17,508,854

https://popcdn.azureedge.net/pdfs/Nov2017webstats.pdf

Thank you for pointing it out - sorry. After seeing so many spreadsheets on a month basis, I saw the wrong column. I have noted the change in my master sheet and will have the correct number posted. This does not change the ranking for PDX at this time although they are coming close to TPA in overall pax standing.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:53 pm
by airbazar
axiom wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
Utah744 wrote:
I've been retired for ten years so I'm not up to date but I can't think of another airline that has a hub at DTW.

NK also is a DTW hub.


Does NK ever even eclipse 40 flights a day at DTW? Operating base, sure, but it's hardly a connecting hub, by any definition.

By that flight measure, WN has 20+ hubs.

A hub is an any airport that the airline defines as such, as well as where it sells connecting itineraries. The number of flights and destinations is irrelevant. There are many small airlines around the World with their own hub. WN does sell connecting itineraries thru many cities, although they insist that they don't have hubs: BWI, MDW, DEN, LAS, PHX, LAX, DAL, MCI, HOU, etc. B6 also claims that they don't have hubs but come on: JFK, FLL, BOS.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:55 pm
by klm617
SESGDL wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Lennundus wrote:

Not every other hub is growing. PHX has lost 3 million passengers compared to last year.



Yes but it still maintains a strong position at 40 million AA has 5 basic hubs and 4 of those hubs exceed the numbers that DTW and MSP are posting.


PHX is a double hub, MSP and DTW are not (and don’t mention NK and SY because they have fewer than 30-40 flights at each airport).

Jeremy


I've been schooled on this very forum that DTW is a hub for Spirit when I said Detroit was nothing more than a focus city for Spirit. So which is it a focus city of hub so I can go forward classifying it as such without backlash.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:46 pm
by axiom
klm617 wrote:
SESGDL wrote:
klm617 wrote:


Yes but it still maintains a strong position at 40 million AA has 5 basic hubs and 4 of those hubs exceed the numbers that DTW and MSP are posting.


PHX is a double hub, MSP and DTW are not (and don’t mention NK and SY because they have fewer than 30-40 flights at each airport).

Jeremy


I've been schooled on this very forum that DTW is a hub for Spirit when I said Detroit was nothing more than a focus city for Spirit. So which is it a focus city of hub so I can go forward classifying it as such without backlash.


It's an operating base. Focus city if you fancy. With the (debatable) exception of FLL, NK is not a hub and spoke carrier, even if they over some connecting and through flights.

Out of curiosity, I compiled a list of NK's top cities by daily flights from the current timetable. There is some rounding. This is December, so I imagine there will be significant seasonal variation.

1. FLL - 64
2. LAS - 34
3. DTW - 30
4. MCO - 29
5. ORD - 26
6. BWI - 22
- LAX - 22
8. DFW - 21
9. ATL - 20
10. TPA - 19

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:25 pm
by axiom
airbazar wrote:
axiom wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
NK also is a DTW hub.


Does NK ever even eclipse 40 flights a day at DTW? Operating base, sure, but it's hardly a connecting hub, by any definition.

By that flight measure, WN has 20+ hubs.

A hub is an any airport that the airline defines as such, as well as where it sells connecting itineraries. The number of flights and destinations is irrelevant. There are many small airlines around the World with their own hub. WN does sell connecting itineraries thru many cities, although they insist that they don't have hubs: BWI, MDW, DEN, LAS, PHX, LAX, DAL, MCI, HOU, etc. B6 also claims that they don't have hubs but come on: JFK, FLL, BOS.


I agree, which is why DTW isn't a hub. Both the volume of traffic and composition of the route network speak to this.

All of this isn't to pick on DTW. It is by far my favorite legacy connecting hub, and I go out of my way to route through it. It's also the place where I came of age as an aviation enthusiast, traveling solo on NW as a kid.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:12 pm
by DBun
iyerhari wrote:
DBun wrote:
looks like you have last years numbers for PDX. November of 2017 has 17,508,854

https://popcdn.azureedge.net/pdfs/Nov2017webstats.pdf

Thank you for pointing it out - sorry. After seeing so many spreadsheets on a month basis, I saw the wrong column. I have noted the change in my master sheet and will have the correct number posted. This does not change the ranking for PDX at this time although they are coming close to TPA in overall pax standing.


I assumed it wouldn't change the rankings- PDX has had a slower year for growth, particularly with all of the Horizon problems

Thank you for making this list.

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:42 am
by VS4ever
Hi all,
As I mentioned earlier, I had the way of getting the numbers up on-line, so i've worked through the attached file and added some data. This will be updated regularly from now on.
As some of the airports have published to different months, i've added an estimation of the remaining pax missing for the rest of the year and added 2016 Year numbers, so we can do a 16 vs 17 comparison, it's pretty much a rolling forecast as i've taken the YTD % changes for the most part. It's basically iyerhari's list above with those additional tweaks.

Enjoy folks. Let me know if you can't access for any reason.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B61t8 ... XhIV2ttSkk

Re: 2017 total passenger rankings for US large hub airports

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:18 pm
by iyerhari
VS4ever wrote:
Hi all,
As I mentioned earlier, I had the way of getting the numbers up on-line, so i've worked through the attached file and added some data. This will be updated regularly from now on.
As some of the airports have published to different months, i've added an estimation of the remaining pax missing for the rest of the year and added 2016 Year numbers, so we can do a 16 vs 17 comparison, it's pretty much a rolling forecast as i've taken the YTD % changes for the most part. It's basically iyerhari's list above with those additional tweaks.

Enjoy folks. Let me know if you can't access for any reason.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B61t8 ... XhIV2ttSkk

Very well done and nicely laid out. For just pleasure, I went through the numbers for the very large hubs ranked 1 through 7 and these airports operate in a completely different zone!

Ranking Airport Total pax International pax
1 ATL 95,853,002 11,089,903
2 LAX 77,460,035 22,728,431
3 ORD 73,470,677 11,489,326
4 DFW 50,217,940 6,654,737
5 DEN 51,515,354 2,143,376
6 JFK 51,508,374 27,577,303
7 SFO 51,154,591 12,354,832

When you go through the numbers, couple of imp. points.
1. DFW number only covers until Sep-2017.
2. DEN and JFK are until Oct-2017. JFK has moved a level down compared to last year.
3. Rest all the airports in the list - ATL, LAX, ORD, SFO have reported through Nov.

Aforesaid, this is not in the category of large hubs but the very large hubs. Boy! difference between ATL and LAX is 18,392,967!