axiom wrote:Very interesting - thanks for compiling. Out of curiosity, what was the rationale for stopping at airport 21? Why not include all of the airports the FAA defines as large hub? There are only a few missing.
slowrambler wrote:For CLT, do you mean 44,385,140?
axiom wrote:Very interesting - thanks for compiling. Out of curiosity, what was the rationale for stopping at airport 21? Why not include all of the airports the FAA defines as large hub? There are only a few missing.
iyerhari wrote:Sorry while I was adding the numbers, I had read the literature that non-rev essentially included airline staffs, airline executives. I could not find details if airports count them. If that is the case, I will add the numbers. FYI, not all airports provide that in their breakdown. E.g. BOS, MSP, and maybe few more provide that in their monthly reporting. I forgot this ask this question to the Logan lady who works in analytics. Thanks for your insights. I will update the numbers.
iyerhari wrote:All along, VS4ever significantly helped me in providing guidance (and still continues to!).
I have also excluded non-revenue pax from my total passenger reporting. In this category of airports, the following have not yet reported their November numbers so the rankings are not yet complete but it gives a direction where we are heading: PHL, EWR, LGA. CLT has not yet reported their October and November-2017 numbers.
(Sorry I do not know how to add a picture and read the fine print that it needs to be first added to a website and then uploaded here - I have not done it so will try to figure that out next).
klm617 wrote:Pretty sad showing for Detroit. With 2 hub carriers.
kngkyle wrote:ORD will end the year just shy of 80 million which will put it behind ATL and LAX in the US.
Dominion301 wrote:Non-revs also include pax travelling on reward seats...at least that's how the airline I used to work for defined them.
Most airports won't break out non-revs out and will be included in the grand totals. Non-revs of course still have to pay all taxes/airport fees.
This differs from deadheading crews, which aren't counted in pax stats and they don't pay taxes/fees.
November 2017 Statistical Data:
Domestic passenger traffic climbed 6.36 percent with 3,224,980 total passengers for the month.
International traffic soared by double-digits, up 12.61 percent with 454,180 international arrivals and departures in November
Combined, overall traffic was up 7 percent with 3,679,160 travelers at MCO in November
On a rolling 12-month basis overall traffic at MCO is up 6 percent, climbing to a new record of 44,309,144
usairways85 wrote:PHL is going to see the lowest passenger total in the past 20-25 years. But 2018 will be somewhat of a bounce back year with 4 new international flights.
iyerhari wrote:klm617 wrote:Pretty sad showing for Detroit. With 2 hub carriers.
I agree - that is the story for some of the other fortress hubs like MSP too - they are beginning to languish despite being a strong hub.
!
airzona11 wrote:Thanks for sharing.
I agree - that is the story for some of the other fortress hubs like MSP too - they are beginning to languish despite being a strong hub.
!
axiom wrote:How did you arrive at those TPA numbers? Their rolling Dec 16 - Nov 17 number is 19.44 million, and today on twitter I saw them announce that their 2017 total was 19.6 or so.
Very fascinating list!
mcogator wrote:Based on your numbers, non-revs make up 10% of an airports traffic numbers? Or is this only for 11 months?
MCOs latest press release states this:
https://orlandoairports.net/press/2018/ ... -november/November 2017 Statistical Data:
Domestic passenger traffic climbed 6.36 percent with 3,224,980 total passengers for the month.
International traffic soared by double-digits, up 12.61 percent with 454,180 international arrivals and departures in November
Combined, overall traffic was up 7 percent with 3,679,160 travelers at MCO in November
On a rolling 12-month basis overall traffic at MCO is up 6 percent, climbing to a new record of 44,309,144
I expected them to surpass MIA and PHX, but maybe also CLT.
klm617 wrote:Pretty sad showing for Detroit. With 2 hub carriers.
Utah744 wrote:klm617 wrote:Pretty sad showing for Detroit. With 2 hub carriers.
I've been retired for ten years so I'm not up to date but I can't think of another airline that has a hub at DTW.
iyerhari wrote:mcogator wrote:Based on your numbers, non-revs make up 10% of an airports traffic numbers? Or is this only for 11 months?
MCOs latest press release states this:
https://orlandoairports.net/press/2018/ ... -november/
I do not know from where they got the numbers but if you navigate here: navigate to https://www.orlandoairports.net/about-us/ -> Traffic Statistics section -> Airline activity report and select November-2017 you will be able to get the numbers. I use a month-by-month total and my number is off by 100K - in the sense lesser than what MCO computed and I do not know how that is happening because I have checked my totals on a month basis. MCO overtaking CLT, SEA is possible unless they have a superb Dec numbers. Let's see - will keep u posted.
mcogator wrote:iyerhari wrote:mcogator wrote:Based on your numbers, non-revs make up 10% of an airports traffic numbers? Or is this only for 11 months?
MCOs latest press release states this:
https://orlandoairports.net/press/2018/ ... -november/
I do not know from where they got the numbers but if you navigate here: navigate to https://www.orlandoairports.net/about-us/ -> Traffic Statistics section -> Airline activity report and select November-2017 you will be able to get the numbers. I use a month-by-month total and my number is off by 100K - in the sense lesser than what MCO computed and I do not know how that is happening because I have checked my totals on a month basis. MCO overtaking CLT, SEA is possible unless they have a superb Dec numbers. Let's see - will keep u posted.
I see a 4 million difference, 44 vs 40.
airzona11 wrote:Thanks for sharing.
PHX has to have the most boring 40million. 737s and A320s with the occasional non AA/WN bird and the BA 747. Don't get me wrong, hometown airport, Love to see the numbers up.
The scale of passenger flights in the US is amazing. That is moving a lot of people.iyerhari wrote:klm617 wrote:Pretty sad showing for Detroit. With 2 hub carriers.
I agree - that is the story for some of the other fortress hubs like MSP too - they are beginning to languish despite being a strong hub.
!
What is languishing about hubs connecting 32 and 35 million passengers?
klm617 wrote:airzona11 wrote:Thanks for sharing.
PHX has to have the most boring 40million. 737s and A320s with the occasional non AA/WN bird and the BA 747. Don't get me wrong, hometown airport, Love to see the numbers up.
The scale of passenger flights in the US is amazing. That is moving a lot of people.iyerhari wrote:I agree - that is the story for some of the other fortress hubs like MSP too - they are beginning to languish despite being a strong hub.
!
What is languishing about hubs connecting 32 and 35 million passengers?
Because they are every other hub is the USA is growing while Detroit is stagnant and losing ground. Even some airports with small hub operations are moving more passengers than these primary hubs.An airlines hubs should grow at the same rate of better than the national increase and at DTW that's not happening it's standing still even tough the economy and air travel is on the rise.
iyerhari wrote:axiom wrote:How did you arrive at those TPA numbers? Their rolling Dec 16 - Nov 17 number is 19.44 million, and today on twitter I saw them announce that their 2017 total was 19.6 or so.
Very fascinating list!
I only considered the 2017 calendar year starting from Jan-2017. I did not consider Dec-2016 in my calculations.mcogator wrote:Based on your numbers, non-revs make up 10% of an airports traffic numbers? Or is this only for 11 months?
MCOs latest press release states this:
https://orlandoairports.net/press/2018/ ... -november/November 2017 Statistical Data:
Domestic passenger traffic climbed 6.36 percent with 3,224,980 total passengers for the month.
International traffic soared by double-digits, up 12.61 percent with 454,180 international arrivals and departures in November
Combined, overall traffic was up 7 percent with 3,679,160 travelers at MCO in November
On a rolling 12-month basis overall traffic at MCO is up 6 percent, climbing to a new record of 44,309,144
I expected them to surpass MIA and PHX, but maybe also CLT.
I went through all the numbers and I am certain of my math and my excel. The only way I believe the 100K is showing up more is probably the non-revenue pax and how they report monthly numbers which I take exactly as-is and I am sorry I cannot give any other explanation.
iyerhari wrote:Utah744 wrote:klm617 wrote:Pretty sad showing for Detroit. With 2 hub carriers.
I've been retired for ten years so I'm not up to date but I can't think of another airline that has a hub at DTW.
NK also is a DTW hub.
axiom wrote:iyerhari wrote:axiom wrote:How did you arrive at those TPA numbers? Their rolling Dec 16 - Nov 17 number is 19.44 million, and today on twitter I saw them announce that their 2017 total was 19.6 or so.
Very fascinating list!
I only considered the 2017 calendar year starting from Jan-2017. I did not consider Dec-2016 in my calculations.mcogator wrote:Based on your numbers, non-revs make up 10% of an airports traffic numbers? Or is this only for 11 months?
MCOs latest press release states this:
https://orlandoairports.net/press/2018/ ... -november/
I expected them to surpass MIA and PHX, but maybe also CLT.
I went through all the numbers and I am certain of my math and my excel. The only way I believe the 100K is showing up more is probably the non-revenue pax and how they report monthly numbers which I take exactly as-is and I am sorry I cannot give any other explanation.
Ah, so you're missing a month for TPA for 2017?
Thanks again!
iyerhari wrote:axiom wrote:iyerhari wrote:I only considered the 2017 calendar year starting from Jan-2017. I did not consider Dec-2016 in my calculations.
I went through all the numbers and I am certain of my math and my excel. The only way I believe the 100K is showing up more is probably the non-revenue pax and how they report monthly numbers which I take exactly as-is and I am sorry I cannot give any other explanation.
Ah, so you're missing a month for TPA for 2017?
Thanks again!
I will add Dec-2017 when they report that. I am only considering the calendar year and not rolling figure. Please stay tuned as airports start reporting their Dec 2017 numbers starting next week.
axiom wrote:iyerhari wrote:Utah744 wrote:I've been retired for ten years so I'm not up to date but I can't think of another airline that has a hub at DTW.
NK also is a DTW hub.
Does NK ever even eclipse 40 flights a day at DTW? Operating base, sure, but it's hardly a connecting hub, by any definition.
By that flight measure, WN has 20+ hubs.
Lennundus wrote:klm617 wrote:airzona11 wrote:Thanks for sharing.
PHX has to have the most boring 40million. 737s and A320s with the occasional non AA/WN bird and the BA 747. Don't get me wrong, hometown airport, Love to see the numbers up.
The scale of passenger flights in the US is amazing. That is moving a lot of people.
What is languishing about hubs connecting 32 and 35 million passengers?
Because they are every other hub is the USA is growing while Detroit is stagnant and losing ground. Even some airports with small hub operations are moving more passengers than these primary hubs.An airlines hubs should grow at the same rate of better than the national increase and at DTW that's not happening it's standing still even tough the economy and air travel is on the rise.
Not every other hub is growing. PHX has lost 3 million passengers compared to last year.
klm617 wrote:Lennundus wrote:klm617 wrote:
Because they are every other hub is the USA is growing while Detroit is stagnant and losing ground. Even some airports with small hub operations are moving more passengers than these primary hubs.An airlines hubs should grow at the same rate of better than the national increase and at DTW that's not happening it's standing still even tough the economy and air travel is on the rise.
Not every other hub is growing. PHX has lost 3 million passengers compared to last year.
Yes but it still maintains a strong position at 40 million AA has 5 basic hubs and 4 of those hubs exceed the numbers that DTW and MSP are posting.
klm617 wrote:Lennundus wrote:klm617 wrote:
Because they are every other hub is the USA is growing while Detroit is stagnant and losing ground. Even some airports with small hub operations are moving more passengers than these primary hubs.An airlines hubs should grow at the same rate of better than the national increase and at DTW that's not happening it's standing still even tough the economy and air travel is on the rise.
Not every other hub is growing. PHX has lost 3 million passengers compared to last year.
Yes but it still maintains a strong position at 40 million AA has 5 basic hubs and 4 of those hubs exceed the numbers that DTW and MSP are posting.
DBun wrote:looks like you have last years numbers for PDX. November of 2017 has 17,508,854
https://popcdn.azureedge.net/pdfs/Nov2017webstats.pdf
axiom wrote:iyerhari wrote:Utah744 wrote:I've been retired for ten years so I'm not up to date but I can't think of another airline that has a hub at DTW.
NK also is a DTW hub.
Does NK ever even eclipse 40 flights a day at DTW? Operating base, sure, but it's hardly a connecting hub, by any definition.
By that flight measure, WN has 20+ hubs.
SESGDL wrote:klm617 wrote:Lennundus wrote:
Not every other hub is growing. PHX has lost 3 million passengers compared to last year.
Yes but it still maintains a strong position at 40 million AA has 5 basic hubs and 4 of those hubs exceed the numbers that DTW and MSP are posting.
PHX is a double hub, MSP and DTW are not (and don’t mention NK and SY because they have fewer than 30-40 flights at each airport).
Jeremy
klm617 wrote:SESGDL wrote:klm617 wrote:
Yes but it still maintains a strong position at 40 million AA has 5 basic hubs and 4 of those hubs exceed the numbers that DTW and MSP are posting.
PHX is a double hub, MSP and DTW are not (and don’t mention NK and SY because they have fewer than 30-40 flights at each airport).
Jeremy
I've been schooled on this very forum that DTW is a hub for Spirit when I said Detroit was nothing more than a focus city for Spirit. So which is it a focus city of hub so I can go forward classifying it as such without backlash.
airbazar wrote:axiom wrote:iyerhari wrote:NK also is a DTW hub.
Does NK ever even eclipse 40 flights a day at DTW? Operating base, sure, but it's hardly a connecting hub, by any definition.
By that flight measure, WN has 20+ hubs.
A hub is an any airport that the airline defines as such, as well as where it sells connecting itineraries. The number of flights and destinations is irrelevant. There are many small airlines around the World with their own hub. WN does sell connecting itineraries thru many cities, although they insist that they don't have hubs: BWI, MDW, DEN, LAS, PHX, LAX, DAL, MCI, HOU, etc. B6 also claims that they don't have hubs but come on: JFK, FLL, BOS.
iyerhari wrote:DBun wrote:looks like you have last years numbers for PDX. November of 2017 has 17,508,854
https://popcdn.azureedge.net/pdfs/Nov2017webstats.pdf
Thank you for pointing it out - sorry. After seeing so many spreadsheets on a month basis, I saw the wrong column. I have noted the change in my master sheet and will have the correct number posted. This does not change the ranking for PDX at this time although they are coming close to TPA in overall pax standing.
VS4ever wrote:Hi all,
As I mentioned earlier, I had the way of getting the numbers up on-line, so i've worked through the attached file and added some data. This will be updated regularly from now on.
As some of the airports have published to different months, i've added an estimation of the remaining pax missing for the rest of the year and added 2016 Year numbers, so we can do a 16 vs 17 comparison, it's pretty much a rolling forecast as i've taken the YTD % changes for the most part. It's basically iyerhari's list above with those additional tweaks.
Enjoy folks. Let me know if you can't access for any reason.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B61t8 ... XhIV2ttSkk