India Aviation Thread - 2018

binayak · Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:52 am

Blerg wrote:
I was under the impression Joon was being sent to lower yielding destinations. Maybe there isn't that much premium demand.

Maybe they are letting the premium BOM CDG traffic to be carried by 9W who is better in service and quality than AF. Both the flights depart from BOM at the same time so had there been enough premium traffic at that time of the day to fill the J of two 777s to Paris then AF would have long ago sent an A380. This is where AF KL 9W joint venture lacks. They don't provide a choice of timings so they can't get a complete advantage of the premium traffic. They might replace DEL CDG with Joon air if indigo starts flying to ORL.

unrave · Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:50 am

DEL becomes the 7th busiest airport in Asia
https://www.hindustantimes.com/delhi-ne ... C6HTM.html

Interesting to see DEL's rapid rise through the ranks in passenger traffic

2010 28.5m 44 (global rank)
2011 34.7m 34
2012 34.2m 37
2013 36.7m 32
2014 39.7m 31
2015 45.9m 25
2016 55.6m 21
2017 63.4m 16

Should breach the top 10 by 2019

Blerg · Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:43 am

unrave wrote:
DEL becomes the 7th busiest airport in Asia
https://www.hindustantimes.com/delhi-ne ... C6HTM.html

Interesting to see DEL's rapid rise through the ranks in passenger traffic

2010 28.5m 44 (global rank)
2011 34.7m 34
2012 34.2m 37
2013 36.7m 32
2014 39.7m 31
2015 45.9m 25
2016 55.6m 21
2017 63.4m 16

Should breach the top 10 by 2019

They are getting really close to IST which welcomed 63,727,448 passengers in 2017. Will be interesting to see what happens this year as both airports are set to keep on growing.

binayak · Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:28 am

Please can anyone post a link to a site where pax handled by all indian airports in 2018 are given

unrave · Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:32 am

binayak wrote:
Please can anyone post a link to a site where pax handled by all indian airports in 2018 are given

I have the figures for top12 airports

binayak · Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:08 pm

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 541_1.html
Etihad will do a favor to 9W. Anyways their partnership was not that fruitful. Moreover it made 9W invest too much connecting secondary cities to abu dhabi

sand26391 · Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:24 pm

Does this mean 9W will cut out some of the flights from these cities to AUH in the near future and concentrate on the new AMS/CDG hubs?

anshabhi · Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:14 pm

sand26391 wrote:
Does this mean 9W will cut out some of the flights from these cities to AUH in the near future and concentrate on the new AMS/CDG hubs?

My suggestion would be to pull B737s out of AUH and put them on domestic routes rather, as 9W is rapidly losing its market share and no new aircraft are expected at least until June ...

studentdrbev · Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:25 pm

anshabhi wrote:
sand26391 wrote:
Does this mean 9W will cut out some of the flights from these cities to AUH in the near future and concentrate on the new AMS/CDG hubs?

My suggestion would be to pull B737s out of AUH and put them on domestic routes rather, as 9W is rapidly losing its market share and no new aircraft are expected at least until June ...

9W isn't going to take delivery any aircraft until the new airport in BOM is done which is expected around 2020. They could have done themselves a favor by taking the delivery of the B787s for the long haul operations :hissyfit:

CaliguyNYC · Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:59 pm

My guess is Etihad will sell their 9W stake to AF/KL in return for keeping the Etihad AF/KL partnership. Everybody wins. Hope this happens. I would have preferred that DL owned the stake in 9W (they are better managers and have done a great job upgrading VS). But AF/KL is better than Etihad as a strategic investor.

AI126 · Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:08 pm

studentdrbev wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
sand26391 wrote:
Does this mean 9W will cut out some of the flights from these cities to AUH in the near future and concentrate on the new AMS/CDG hubs?

My suggestion would be to pull B737s out of AUH and put them on domestic routes rather, as 9W is rapidly losing its market share and no new aircraft are expected at least until June ...

9W isn't going to take delivery any aircraft until the new airport in BOM is done which is expected around 2020. They could have done themselves a favor by taking the delivery of the B787s for the long haul operations

Pity they were never that interested in using domestic widebody ops. They could utilize their BOM slots much better that way. Oh, and as for Navi Mumbai; that airport will be finished right after Berlin Brandenburg, or heck, maybe even a few years after that!

studentdrbev · Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:10 pm

AI126 wrote:
studentdrbev wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
My suggestion would be to pull B737s out of AUH and put them on domestic routes rather, as 9W is rapidly losing its market share and no new aircraft are expected at least until June ...

9W isn't going to take delivery any aircraft until the new airport in BOM is done which is expected around 2020. They could have done themselves a favor by taking the delivery of the B787s for the long haul operations

Pity they were never that interested in using domestic widebody ops. They could utilize their BOM slots much better that way. Oh, and as for Navi Mumbai; that airport will be finished right after Berlin Brandenburg, or heck, maybe even a few years after that!

Given the state of 9W and the dilemma regarding the privatization of AI, this is the right time for Vistara to replace both 9W and AI. They are expected to launch their International operations in the 2nd half of 2018 and I'm sure they will replace 9W and AI sooner or later even if they weren't able to get AI to themselves.

Blerg · Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:13 pm

studentdrbev wrote:
AI126 wrote:
studentdrbev wrote:

9W isn't going to take delivery any aircraft until the new airport in BOM is done which is expected around 2020. They could have done themselves a favor by taking the delivery of the B787s for the long haul operations

Pity they were never that interested in using domestic widebody ops. They could utilize their BOM slots much better that way. Oh, and as for Navi Mumbai; that airport will be finished right after Berlin Brandenburg, or heck, maybe even a few years after that!

Given the state of 9W and the dilemma regarding the privatization of AI, this is the right time for Vistara to replace both 9W and AI. They are expected to launch their International operations in the 2nd half of 2018 and I'm sure they will replace 9W and AI sooner or later even if they weren't able to get AI to themselves.

What could be their first international destination? SIN?

studentdrbev · Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:11 am

Blerg wrote:
studentdrbev wrote:
AI126 wrote:
Pity they were never that interested in using domestic widebody ops. They could utilize their BOM slots much better that way. Oh, and as for Navi Mumbai; that airport will be finished right after Berlin Brandenburg, or heck, maybe even a few years after that!

Given the state of 9W and the dilemma regarding the privatization of AI, this is the right time for Vistara to replace both 9W and AI. They are expected to launch their International operations in the 2nd half of 2018 and I'm sure they will replace 9W and AI sooner or later even if they weren't able to get AI to themselves.

What could be their first international destination? SIN?

I don't think SIN would be their first destination as they can codeshare it to their partner, SIA.
Europe would be a fine choice but they need widebodies to operate the route and they don't own WB as for now but looking forward to purchase soon.
Based on the current hub, DEL, and their current aircrafts, A320, I guess we can expect ME. The route is already in high demand.

binayak · Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:37 am

9W is rapidly increasing its presence at BLR and trying to make it a hub. So they can concentrate there till navi Mumbai airport is ready.

unrave · Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:10 am

SIN will definitely play a big role for UK. India-Singapore bilaterals are restricted both by no of weekly seats and the points of call. UK will help SQ to serve airports that it can't serve and increase frequencies at airports where it already does. I think the Singapore side of bilaterals were exhausted a couple of years back and the Indian govt has been reluctant to increase bilaterals with the superhub countries

binayak · Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:11 am

https://m.economictimes.com/industry/tr ... 127860.cms
Sorry!!!!

sand26391 · Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:56 am

Colombo, Singapore see surge in traffic from Bengaluru: BIAL

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... cebook.com

Slash787 · Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:27 pm

binayak wrote:
9W is rapidly increasing its presence at BLR and trying to make it a hub. So they can concentrate there till navi Mumbai airport is ready.

I honestly don't see the new Bombay airport opening before 2024 and with so much traffic on the roads of Bombay, don't you think this new airport will be pretty far for many people?

VTORD · Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:38 pm

Slash787 wrote:
binayak wrote:
9W is rapidly increasing its presence at BLR and trying to make it a hub. So they can concentrate there till navi Mumbai airport is ready.

I honestly don't see the new Bombay airport opening before 2024 and with so much traffic on the roads of Bombay, don't you think this new airport will be pretty far for many people?

Mumbai's suburbs along the Eastern Express Highway and indeed some beyond the Borivali area might find the new airport more suitable in terms of getting there. The Vashi - Belapur - Panvel belt has exploded as more and more people have moved there so there will be a significant number of people who will find it more convenient.

The actual headache might be for the airlines in terms of how they plan their routes

sand26391 · Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:54 pm

Navi Mumbai airport to be completed by end-2019: CIDCO
http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/mum ... 654482.ece

^^ Is this some joke or do ppl seriously believe that an airport can be built in 18 months?? IMO NMIA will open only in 2021 with atleast Terminal which can handle 15 MPPA. If they open less than 10MPPA terminal then NMIA will be congested within 6-10 months!

binayak · Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:57 am

If the runway and terminal are built simultaneously then the 10 million capacity first phase of the airport can be ready by 2020 end. Well I have full confidence on GVK group that the entire airport will be ready by 2027.
In 7 years they could improve BOM to a large extent. They reconstructed both the runways and increased the length of runway 09/27 by diverting mithi river , renovated terminal 1 and construct new terminal 2 all when flight operation was on.

sand26391 · Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:47 am

If it happens thats great, but IMO I really think that's not possible... Sometimes we forget this is India. BTW any updates of Goa's 2nd Airport??

unrave · Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:27 pm

2019 is a tad unrealistic but I expect a small functional airport to be ready by the end of 2020. GVK has shown remarkable enterprise in the past: BOM renovation and BLR construction happened in record time.

At Goa, GMR has just selected Megawide to construct the airport.

Kashmon · Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:06 am

binayak wrote:
If the runway and terminal are built simultaneously then the 10 million capacity first phase of the airport can be ready by 2020 end. Well I have full confidence on GVK group that the entire airport will be ready by 2027.
In 7 years they could improve BOM to a large extent. They reconstructed both the runways and increased the length of runway 09/27 by diverting mithi river , renovated terminal 1 and construct new terminal 2 all when flight operation was on.

is that it?

just 10 million

why can't they just slog it out and build a 50-60 million airport in 4 years.....

unrave · Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:39 am

Feature on women pilots of India.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 151439.cms

12% of commercial pilots in India are women, compared to 5.1% in the US and a global average of 5.6%

AirIndia · Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:21 am

Blerg wrote:
What could be their first international destination? SIN?

Quiet surprisingly it was reported in January that their first destination was going to be IKA.

In a proposal to the aviation ministry, Vistara has said that they would launch international operations and have mentioned flights to Tehran as their first destination followed by Singapore.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 382773.cms

binayak · Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:28 am

Kashmon wrote:
binayak wrote:
If the runway and terminal are built simultaneously then the 10 million capacity first phase of the airport can be ready by 2020 end. Well I have full confidence on GVK group that the entire airport will be ready by 2027.
In 7 years they could improve BOM to a large extent. They reconstructed both the runways and increased the length of runway 09/27 by diverting mithi river , renovated terminal 1 and construct new terminal 2 all when flight operation was on.

is that it?

just 10 million

why can't they just slog it out and build a 50-60 million airport in 4 years.....

The first phase of the airport as expected by 2019 will have a runway and a 10 million capacity terminal. By the end of the third phase it will have the capacity of 60 million.
Well if the first phase is ready as soon as possible then there will be some capacity addition to Mumbai which will be at least better than today's condition. The problem is that they miscalculate the passenger traffic growth. By 2030 which is the final deadline of the project Mumbai will starve for a third airport.

SATexan · Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:41 am

sand26391 wrote:
Colombo, Singapore see surge in traffic from Bengaluru: BIAL

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... cebook.com

The BLR-SFO/NYC passenger numbers in the article seem kind of low. I have seen higher numbers in previous years. Is this just one-way total passenger number?
Would be helpful if anyone can post the latest O&D numbers from BLR to US/European cities.

Kashmon · Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:27 am

unrave wrote:
Feature on women pilots of India.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 151439.cms

12% of commercial pilots in India are women, compared to 5.1% in the US and a global average of 5.6%

as India westernizes that will decline
India also has a higher % of engineering graduates than western countries

in fact most "male traditional" societies have higher % of women in stereo typically "male" jobs
in fact even USA has higher % female computer science graduates in the 70's than today
( USA was more traditional in the 70's)

Blerg · Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:06 am

AirIndia wrote:
Blerg wrote:
What could be their first international destination? SIN?

Quiet surprisingly it was reported in January that their first destination was going to be IKA.

In a proposal to the aviation ministry, Vistara has said that they would launch international operations and have mentioned flights to Tehran as their first destination followed by Singapore.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 382773.cms

That is interesting. I am sure there is a lot of O&D demand but Tehran is also a great source of connecting passengers, especially if Vistara launches flights to east Asia.

unrave · Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:30 am

AirAsia India to begin overseas operations by January 2019
The company would serve those markets which were already connected by the airliner’s group entities—AirAsia Malaysia, AirAsia Indonesia, AirAsia Thailand

http://www.livemint.com/Companies/KRYtn ... -2019.html

sand26391 · Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:22 am

SATexan wrote:
sand26391 wrote:
Colombo, Singapore see surge in traffic from Bengaluru: BIAL

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... cebook.com

The BLR-SFO/NYC passenger numbers in the article seem kind of low. I have seen higher numbers in previous years. Is this just one-way total passenger number?
Would be helpful if anyone can post the latest O&D numbers from BLR to US/European cities.

Its 1 way numbers. I will try posting the other city pair numbers

anshabhi · Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:39 am

AirIndia wrote:
Blerg wrote:
What could be their first international destination? SIN?

Quiet surprisingly it was reported in January that their first destination was going to be IKA.

In a proposal to the aviation ministry, Vistara has said that they would launch international operations and have mentioned flights to Tehran as their first destination followed by Singapore.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 382773.cms

I hope SQ and UK develop DEL as a hub for SE Asia- ME Asia traffic!

sand26391 · Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:14 pm

I don't think SQ as an airline will develop DEL as a HUB for SEAsia cities with SIN as main base. But if u mean UK, yes rhey are developing it as a hub for both Long haul & Short haul Int'l. Apparently they will start in May & I5 will start by 2019, so seems like AI will have some competition in the next 24 months(?) with IndiGo also planning to start long haul ops from DEL & other Main Hubs.

binayak · Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:15 pm

sand26391 wrote:
I don't think SQ as an airline will develop DEL as a HUB for SEAsia cities with SIN as main base. But if u mean UK, yes rhey are developing it as a hub for both Long haul & Short haul Int'l. Apparently they will start in May & I5 will start by 2019, so seems like AI will have some competition in the next 24 months(?) with IndiGo also planning to start long haul ops from DEL & other Main Hubs.

If the news about indigo taking A321LR or A330neo are true, then by 2020 any international flight out of Delhi except those going to NA will face direct competition from them. Vistara must be very careful in their route planning and I think Tehran is a good choice.

AirIndia · Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:00 am

Blerg wrote:
That is interesting. I am sure there is a lot of O&D demand but Tehran is also a great source of connecting passengers, especially if Vistara launches flights to east Asia.

I also believe that Tehran would be higher yielding market and so should be able to support UK's 3 class offering.

Blerg · Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:04 am

AirIndia wrote:
Blerg wrote:
That is interesting. I am sure there is a lot of O&D demand but Tehran is also a great source of connecting passengers, especially if Vistara launches flights to east Asia.

I also believe that Tehran would be higher yielding market and so should be able to support UK's 3 class offering.

By 'UK's three class offering' you are referring to the same type of aircraft that will be used for UK flights? I was under the impression that routes such as IKA would be launched with narrowbody aircraft such as the A320 neo.

AirIndia · Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:18 am

Blerg wrote:
By 'UK's three class offering' you are referring to the same type of aircraft that will be used for UK flights? I was under the impression that routes such as IKA would be launched with narrowbody aircraft such as the A320 neo.

No No. UK is Vistara's airline code... so i meant Vistara's 3-class offering.

Vistara currently only has narrowbodies A320s and A320NEOs. so any intl ops will be narrowbody. Besides IKA can be done sufficienlty on an A320....

Blerg · Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:06 am

AirIndia wrote:
Blerg wrote:
By 'UK's three class offering' you are referring to the same type of aircraft that will be used for UK flights? I was under the impression that routes such as IKA would be launched with narrowbody aircraft such as the A320 neo.

No No. UK is Vistara's airline code... so i meant Vistara's 3-class offering.

Vistara currently only has narrowbodies A320s and A320NEOs. so any intl ops will be narrowbody. Besides IKA can be done sufficienlty on an A320....

Ahh ok, it was a 'blonde moment' on my behalf. Thank you for clarifying that.

IndyHoosier · Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:58 pm

unrave wrote:
Feature on women pilots of India.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 151439.cms

12% of commercial pilots in India are women, compared to 5.1% in the US and a global average of 5.6%

Great article. Thank you for posting.

unrave · Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:30 am

IAF aircraft makes first landing at newly built Sikkim airport; commercial operations await DGCA nod

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 174344.cms

sibibom · Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:33 am

Saudi Arabia gives Air India overflight rights for its Israel routes: Netanyahu

source : https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 180358.cms

unrave · Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:24 am

Should shut the perpetual naysayers up.

upwardfacing · Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:47 am

unrave wrote:
Should shut the perpetual naysayers up.

Air India denies getting approval for flights to Israel over Saudi Arabia

"Hours after Netanyahu claims deal reached, spokesman tells Times of Israel airline still awaiting okay for Delhi-Tel Aviv route over Saudi airspace"

https://www.timesofisrael.com/air-india ... di-arabia/

BawliBooch · Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:18 am

upwardfacing wrote:
unrave wrote:
Should shut the perpetual naysayers up.

Air India denies getting approval for flights to Israel over Saudi Arabia

"Hours after Netanyahu claims deal reached, spokesman tells Times of Israel airline still awaiting okay for Delhi-Tel Aviv route over Saudi airspace"

https://www.timesofisrael.com/air-india ... di-arabia/

Thanks man! The denial of the fake news didn't take long! Impressed with AI PR! Wonder if they are following ANET?

unrave · Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:04 pm

Facepalm.

vadodara · Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:25 pm

unrave wrote:
IAF aircraft makes first landing at newly built Sikkim airport; commercial operations await DGCA nod

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 174344.cms

Finally, an aviation policy that benefits a wider swathe of population and region. Sikkim, Assam, Arunachal, Uttrakhand, Himachal and all should have improved services to benefit tourism.

Think beyond the Kashmir valley.

CaliguyNYC · Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:27 pm

Once again what is wrong with Netanyahu. Why can't he just let India announce it when they are ready. Israel has nothing to do with Saudi granting India overflight rights (India had it before for their BOM-TLV route). He is always trying to position himself. Notice Modi is silent. If anyone should claim victory, if the flight happens, it's Modi. It's the strength of his capital that will get the approval and his world view of pushing that route. That said, I think the flight will happen.

vadodara · Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:27 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Once again what is wrong with Netanyahu. Why can't he just let India announce it when they are ready. Israel has nothing to do with Saudi granting India overflight rights (India had it before for their BOM-TLV route). He is always trying to position himself. Notice Modi is silent. If anyone should claim victory, if the flight happens, it's Modi. It's the strength of his capital that will get the approval and his world view of pushing that route. That said, I think the flight will happen.

Yes. The announcement would not have been made without taking Saudi's in confidence. The Saudi's themselves are trying to reset to a life beyond oil. And so are the Iranians.

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