India Aviation Thread - 2018

anshabhi · Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:59 am

unrave wrote:
The only two Indian airlines that have the aircraft capable of flying to PER non stop are AI and 9W. I doubt if either have the spare capacity, but if I were to pick one it would be 9W.

How about a one stop flight with a refueling stop in maybe Kuala Lampur..?

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=del-kul-per

Only 100 nm more than a non stop flight

unrave · Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:25 am

Adding a fuel stop would negate much of the benefits of a non stop offering. Multiple airlines offer one stops to PER from all the major Indian cities.

sibibom · Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:48 am

blrsea wrote:
sibibom wrote:
GVK appoints Zaha Hadid Architects to design Navi Mumbai International Airport

Source : https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ec ... 244529.ece

Another masterpiece in the making. (At the point I am just happy it's actually moving forward)

BOM T2 is gold-plated over the top design. Would rather they spent on function over form and got the airport built quickly in good quality at reasonable price, instead of a masterpiece costing a bomb and delayed for years. Ultimately, passengers will end up paying for all the extras as they will need to raise fee for PSF, airside charges and also for all the retail outlets which will then recover it from high prices from customers.

Do a clean functional design which allows for passenger flow at high rates with minimal delays, get more number of check-in desks, baggage carousels, baggage screening eqiuipment, good number of functional toilets, sufficient seating areas & immigration/custom desks, sufficient taxiways to ensure high aircraft movements, parking bays etc and all the other required equipment/processes working, and allowing for easier expansion in future.

Are you saying BOM isn't functional enough airport?

As as far as airport charges are concerned here is a comparison of BOM and BLR

Mumbai 548 (UDF on International Travel in Rs) 274 (UDF on Domestic Travel in Rs)

Bengaluru 1226 (UDF on International Travel in Rs) 306 (UDF on Domestic Travel in Rs)

binayak · Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:44 am

unrave wrote:
The only two Indian airlines that have the aircraft capable of flying to PER non stop are AI and 9W. I doubt if either have the spare capacity, but if I were to pick one it would be 9W.

I would like to see 9W flying to Australia but that is unlikely looking at BOM constraints. It is more likely to be AI from Delhi. They already serve two Australian cities and wanted to increase flights there. They might add a third destination there.

vadodara · Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:09 pm

blrsea wrote:
sibibom wrote:
GVK appoints Zaha Hadid Architects to design Navi Mumbai International Airport

Source : https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ec ... 244529.ece

Another masterpiece in the making. (At the point I am just happy it's actually moving forward)

BOM T2 is gold-plated over the top design. Would rather they spent on function over form and got the airport built quickly in good quality at reasonable price, instead of a masterpiece costing a bomb and delayed for years. Ultimately, passengers will end up paying for all the extras as they will need to raise fee for PSF, airside charges and also for all the retail outlets which will then recover it from high prices from customers.

Do a clean functional design which allows for passenger flow at high rates with minimal delays, get more number of check-in desks, baggage carousels, baggage screening eqiuipment, good number of functional toilets, sufficient seating areas & immigration/custom desks, sufficient taxiways to ensure high aircraft movements, parking bays etc and all the other required equipment/processes working, and allowing for easier expansion in future.

That would be a foreign concept. A good less in design would be Atlanta Airport. It is now 40 odd yrs old and still the world's busiest in one of the poorer parts of United States.

unrave · Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:42 pm

Both IndiGo and Spicejet have announced partial shifting of Delhi flights to T2 paving the way for T1 expansion. The capacity of T1 will increase from 20m to 30m

Slash787 · Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:10 pm

So Indigo finally agreed?

Slash787 · Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:12 pm

binayak wrote:
unrave wrote:
The only two Indian airlines that have the aircraft capable of flying to PER non stop are AI and 9W. I doubt if either have the spare capacity, but if I were to pick one it would be 9W.

I would like to see 9W flying to Australia but that is unlikely looking at BOM constraints. It is more likely to be AI from Delhi. They already serve two Australian cities and wanted to increase flights there. They might add a third destination there.

B789 would have been the perfect aircraft to Australia for Jet Airways, I hope they take them soon, most prob. next year or 2020?

CaliguyNYC · Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:20 pm

sibibom wrote:
blrsea wrote:
sibibom wrote:
GVK appoints Zaha Hadid Architects to design Navi Mumbai International Airport

Source : https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ec ... 244529.ece

Another masterpiece in the making. (At the point I am just happy it's actually moving forward)

BOM T2 is gold-plated over the top design. Would rather they spent on function over form and got the airport built quickly in good quality at reasonable price, instead of a masterpiece costing a bomb and delayed for years. Ultimately, passengers will end up paying for all the extras as they will need to raise fee for PSF, airside charges and also for all the retail outlets which will then recover it from high prices from customers.

Do a clean functional design which allows for passenger flow at high rates with minimal delays, get more number of check-in desks, baggage carousels, baggage screening eqiuipment, good number of functional toilets, sufficient seating areas & immigration/custom desks, sufficient taxiways to ensure high aircraft movements, parking bays etc and all the other required equipment/processes working, and allowing for easier expansion in future.

Are you saying BOM isn't functional enough airport?

As as far as airport charges are concerned here is a comparison of BOM and BLR

Mumbai 548 (UDF on International Travel in Rs) 274 (UDF on Domestic Travel in Rs)

Bengaluru 1226 (UDF on International Travel in Rs) 306 (UDF on Domestic Travel in Rs)

BOM is a very easy airport to use. I think they did a great job given all the limitations. They even built a an elevated expressway over some of the most congested areas most people will ever see. BOM needed functional (which it got) and bling (which it got). BOM is the finance capital of India. People judge countries on airports, state of roads, blah blah. All BOM has is a great airport and progressive forward thinking people. So money well spent. And BOM is not over the top in bling. The main issue with BOM is that politicians won't get rid of the slums to create another runway (because of vote bank politics - we can thank Congress and Sunil Dutt for that).

anshabhi · Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:03 pm

unrave wrote:
Both IndiGo and Spicejet have announced partial shifting of Delhi flights to T2 paving the way for T1 expansion. The capacity of T1 will increase from 20m to 30m

https://www.goindigo.in/information/ter ... nge_banner

Quiet a lot of changes there!!

Expecting lesser congestion on a whole now, when flying LCCs out of DEL.

unrave · Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:10 pm

This expansion also puts DEL in line for becoming the 3rd or 4th Asian airport to breach the 100m passenger mark early next decade.

NeBaNi · Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:55 pm

sand26391 wrote:
NeBaNi wrote:
sand26391 wrote:
O&D and 2 way passenger numbers for 2017. (Doesn't include transit pax)

Can you clarify what this means? For example, do the numbers for DXB only include BLR-DXB and DXB-BLR passengers? Or do they include BLR-XXX-DXB and DXB-XXX-BLR passengers? If they include the latter, then the number seems absurdly low to me. If they only account for the former (direct route), the AFAIK, BLR-JFK/ BLR-SFO do not exist. Also, I'm assuming the numbers don't include BLR-DXB-XXX and return passengers.

It's just end to end pax & doesn't include pax flying BLR-DXB-XXX. BLR-DXB total pax in 2017 was 775k+ pax. BLR-DXB end to end pax is mentioned above picture....the NYC-SFO pax numbers are end to end aswell, its passengers who have booked NYC/SFO as their destination. I hope this clarifies or helps

Just as another point of clarification then, does it include BLR-XXX-DXB passengers? Like BLR-BOM-DXB or BLR-DEL-DXB? Because if it does, the number seems low to me. If it doesn't it's not really a fair comparison to NYC/SFO.

binayak · Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:46 pm

Slash787 wrote:

B789 would have been the perfect aircraft to Australia for Jet Airways, I hope they take them soon, most prob. next year or 2020?

They are currently not sure whether to take the deliveries or not.

vadodara · Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:46 pm

unrave wrote:
This expansion also puts DEL in line for becoming the 3rd or 4th Asian airport to breach the 100m passenger mark early next decade.

Runway limitations? Fog?

unrave · Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:53 pm

Fourth runway should be ready by 2021. Moreover NATS has been given the contract to optimise the use of runways. This is the same firm that worked with MIAL to increase runway capacity. Fog is an issue even today - hasn't stopped the airport traffic from growing 2.7x in 7 years.

vadodara · Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:15 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:

BOM is a very easy airport to use. I think they did a great job given all the limitations. They even built a an elevated expressway over some of the most congested areas most people will ever see. BOM needed functional (which it got) and bling (which it got). BOM is the finance capital of India. People judge countries on airports, state of roads, blah blah. All BOM has is a great airport and progressive forward thinking people. So money well spent. And BOM is not over the top in bling. The main issue with BOM is that politicians won't get rid of the slums to create another runway (because of vote bank politics - we can thank Congress and Sunil Dutt for that).

So long as people are willing to pay the premium, life is good. But as you just stated, this configuration is more to satisfy Mumbaikar's craving for 'bling' than anything else. If Mumbaikar's are happy to bolt to say the Navi Mumbai airport then this might become an issue.

If the govt. retains its arcane laws of which foreign airline can fly where, then this becomes a problem for others. And yes, the likes of Congress and Sunil Dutt should get full credit for creating this mess.

Adding the 2nd runway by moving out the Air India 'colony' etc would have been the cheapest solution to resolve this mess. But then that makes too much sense.

upwardfacing · Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:33 pm

deleted

upwardfacing · Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:34 pm

Enthusiasm for the new airport on an aviation enthusiast site is understandable, but split hubs rarely work. Even in an exceptionally large and wealthy market like London, one airport is strongly preferred with the others mostly supporting leisure and regional flights. Now that HND is open to intercontinental flights, NRT is gradually being relegated to LCC ventures.

A single airport, the one which is closest to commerce and wealth, would be ideal. If the new airport is too far away for those coveted high yielding passengers, it could be a white elephant. A masterpiece from Zaha Hadid Architects for nothing!

The other thing to note is that the proposed location is in an ecologically sensitive area, and the region will suffer greatly for the decision. It is frankly better to raze already-urbanised areas to expand the existing facility. though in any case the whole region could be doomed to be underwater in a hundred years or so.

vadodara · Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:46 pm

Add Montreal Mirabel to the list. Even development of Kansai has been limited due to Itami's existence. Talk about shutting Itami down. Hong Kong did the smart thing and simply shuttered down the old one.

In Bombay's case, the new airport is expected to have only 2 runway's. Better to build a 2nd one at the existing one.

Slash787 · Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:11 pm

A few years ago there were plans to extend the Juhu Airport runway and connect it to Sahar Airport, but well I don't think so that will happen. Its just things go slow compared to other countries, for example the Bandra Worli Sea Link that took a decade to be built, even the coastal road project even that is in the works since 10 years but nothing has been finalised regarding it.

Have they even started to do something at the New Bombay airport site? or its just barren land at the moment?

VTORD · Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:36 pm

Slash787 wrote:
A few years ago there were plans to extend the Juhu Airport runway and connect it to Sahar Airport, but well I don't think so that will happen. Its just things go slow compared to other countries, for example the Bandra Worli Sea Link that took a decade to be built, even the coastal road project even that is in the works since 10 years but nothing has been finalised regarding it.

Have they even started to do something at the New Bombay airport site? or its just barren land at the moment?

The architects were only chosen like yesterday so it's pretty much a barren piece of land right now

CaliguyNYC · Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:49 am

vadodara wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:

BOM is a very easy airport to use. I think they did a great job given all the limitations. They even built a an elevated expressway over some of the most congested areas most people will ever see. BOM needed functional (which it got) and bling (which it got). BOM is the finance capital of India. People judge countries on airports, state of roads, blah blah. All BOM has is a great airport and progressive forward thinking people. So money well spent. And BOM is not over the top in bling. The main issue with BOM is that politicians won't get rid of the slums to create another runway (because of vote bank politics - we can thank Congress and Sunil Dutt for that).

So long as people are willing to pay the premium, life is good. But as you just stated, this configuration is more to satisfy Mumbaikar's craving for 'bling' than anything else. If Mumbaikar's are happy to bolt to say the Navi Mumbai airport then this might become an issue.

If the govt. retains its arcane laws of which foreign airline can fly where, then this becomes a problem for others. And yes, the likes of Congress and Sunil Dutt should get full credit for creating this mess.

Adding the 2nd runway by moving out the Air India 'colony' etc would have been the cheapest solution to resolve this mess. But then that makes too much sense.

BOM is more similar to NYC where EWR serves primarily New Jersey residents w/ some NY and JFK serves NY and CT residents (I am over simplifing). Navi Mumbai will attract Eastside and New Bombay people. The western suburbs will stick with BOM as will premium pax. New Bombay airport will be LCC mostly and gulf flights. BOM is actually in the city of BOM. A very rare thing. I know people call it the suburbs but for modern day cities BOM is a large in city center airport. A great gift. With better roads, public transport and clearance of the slums, there is no way premium pax would pass it up for the new airport. That said the new airport will do just fine

binayak · Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:10 am

To everyone here talking about Mumbai airports and split hub ops. MIAL is taking a lot of steps to reduce travel time b/w the two airports. There will be 24/7 metro rail and the one running between the airports will halt at very few stops so as to ensure it takes only 90 minutes to travel between CSIA and NMIA.
Talking about premium traffic, we all know that maximum premium out of BOM are the residents of South Bombay. So the work has started on the upcoming trans Harbour link which will connect navi Mumbai to South Mumbai and reduce travel time. So I guess by 2024 both airports will be equally accessible from South Mumbai premium pax.
Lastly I think given all the above facilities split hub ops won't be a problem in Mumbai.

vadodara · Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:06 pm

I am not sure if Bombay should use NYC as a model.

If you look at JFK/LGA/EWR choices, only with the recent addition of the Air Train JFK has become somewhat convenient to access. The internal terminal transfer is still a challenge. EWR has done great ever since Continental upgauged it to a trans atlantic gateway. However, neither JFK or EWR approach anywhere close to say LHR.

Bombay might be wealthy but it is nowhere close to NY! :-(

It is highly doubtful that it will be crawling with premium traffic like NY. However, not having a decent airport is not helping its cause.

The 2 airport solution will work, but it may be more like Milan than NY.

unrave · Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:09 pm

There is very little space to build an accessible airport close to the city, especially when you consider more than 50% of the land is occupied by illegal slums

JOYA380B747 · Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:14 pm

binayak wrote:
Slash787 wrote:

B789 would have been the perfect aircraft to Australia for Jet Airways, I hope they take them soon, most prob. next year or 2020?

They are currently not sure whether to take the deliveries or not.

They definitely should. The whole BOM-at-full-capacity problem is the very reason they should take the 789s now IMO by consolidating existing international routes and moving some A330s to their 'focus' hubs like BLR and DEL. However why don't they convert these orders to more 737MAX and replace their aging fleet if they can't expand out of BOM?

sibibom · Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:52 pm

BOM maybe at full capacity, however the airport gives preference to new routes and new international airlines, and mid-night to early morning does still have slots, which may work for long haul.

Slash787 · Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:07 pm

It won't be a good idea to covert the 789's to the Max, they can restart US flights and even add Australia with those Wide bodies.

sand26391 · Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:51 pm

With 9W preparing to launch BLR-HKG and BOM-Nairobi in WS2018 using the 737 MAX, do you think the passengers will find the 737 max "comfortable" to fly with such routes? Also any timeline given for the arrival of 9W and SG MAX to India??

binayak · Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:11 pm

sand26391 wrote:
With 9W preparing to launch BLR-HKG and BOM-Nairobi in WS2018 using the 737 MAX, do you think the passengers will find the 737 max "comfortable" to fly with such routes? Also any timeline given for the arrival of 9W and SG MAX to India??

See in the beginning it will be 737Max but later if the route is higher-yielding then 9W will surely upgrade to a wide body.
And those 789s might be delivered once navi Mumbai airport is ready. As said earlier an airline whose half the profits are from int'l sector will go for an int'l expansion given a chance.

vadodara · Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:02 am

sand26391 wrote:
With 9W preparing to launch BLR-HKG and BOM-Nairobi in WS2018 using the 737 MAX, do you think the passengers will find the 737 max "comfortable" to fly with such routes? Also any timeline given for the arrival of 9W and SG MAX to India??

9W has made a hash of fleet deployment deploying oversize aircraft like A340 when it flew to Johannesburg. Better to start with the MAX and increase frequency when the market supports. Can increase flights from other cities, add smaller cities like Mombassa, add Uganda, Tanzania and so forth.

In anycase, with the Delta guys at helm, expect more rational moves.

BawliBooch · Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:28 am

Slash787 wrote:
It won't be a good idea to covert the 789's to the Max, they can restart US flights and even add Australia with those Wide bodies.

Restart US flights/Australia from where? Their primary hub BOM is just too congested to allow for International Hub operations at any scale.

Agree Jet should induct the 789's - perhaps replace the 77W's which are just too much capacity for their routes?

vadodara wrote:
9W has made a hash of fleet deployment deploying oversize aircraft like A340 when it flew to Johannesburg. Better to start with the MAX and increase frequency when the market supports. Can increase flights from other cities, add smaller cities like Mombassa, add Uganda, Tanzania and so forth.

In anycase, with the Delta guys at helm, expect more rational moves.

Errrr... is the Delta deal done & dusted already? Perhaps I missed that memo!

Back when Jet started JNB, the A330/A340 was the best aircraft for the route. Indeed for a while, the A340 was the only widebody they had. The 737-800's didnt have the range for the route. Even the 8MAX will struggle to do the route.

unrave · Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:40 am

Err...the CEO of Jet Airways, Vinay Dube was previously a VP at Delta. Perhaps you did miss the memo?

binayak · Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:04 am

BawliBooch wrote:
Slash787 wrote:
It won't be a good idea to covert the 789's to the Max, they can restart US flights and even add Australia with those Wide bodies.

Restart US flights/Australia from where? Their primary hub BOM is just too congested to allow for International Hub operations at any scale.

Agree Jet should induct the 789's - perhaps replace the 77W's which are just too much capacity for their routes

Why to always depend on BOM. Navi Mumbai airport can be a new long haul hub for 9W. The 10 789s for long hauls and 75 narrow bodies for domestic will be enough in addition to 75 737 max for replacement of fleet. 9W has just delayed their delivery but not cancelled the 789s.
And currently they are able to well utilize their 77Ws due to strong partnership with AF KLM DL. No need to replace them.

BawliBooch · Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:52 am

binayak wrote:
Why to always depend on BOM. Navi Mumbai airport can be a new long haul hub for 9W. The 10 789s for long hauls and 75 narrow bodies for domestic will be enough in addition to 75 737 max for replacement of fleet. 9W has just delayed their delivery but not cancelled the 789s.
And currently they are able to well utilize their 77Ws due to strong partnership with AF KLM DL. No need to replace them.

Navi Mumbai airport is a LOOONG way to completion. 2025 at minimum. Jet's 77W's are already over 10 years old on average. They will need to be replaced with something over the next 4 years. I think their deferred 787-9/10's would make for a good replacement.

If it matters they have exactly 10 787-9's on order - exactly the same number as their 77W's.

sibibom · Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:11 am

BawliBooch wrote:
binayak wrote:
Why to always depend on BOM. Navi Mumbai airport can be a new long haul hub for 9W. The 10 789s for long hauls and 75 narrow bodies for domestic will be enough in addition to 75 737 max for replacement of fleet. 9W has just delayed their delivery but not cancelled the 789s.
And currently they are able to well utilize their 77Ws due to strong partnership with AF KLM DL. No need to replace them.

Navi Mumbai airport is a LOOONG way to completion. 2025 at minimum. Jet's 77W's are already over 10 years old on average. They will need to be replaced with something over the next 4 years. I think their deferred 787-9/10's would make for a good replacement.

If it matters they have exactly 10 787-9's on order - exactly the same number as their 77W's.

I think Navi Mumbai Airport will start by 2021-22 (75th Independence day could have a nice ring for an inauguration). Its actually taken 10 years for 777W to be actually fit for 9W's network. The thing with Delta/AF-KLM has finally set them in the right direction after being aimless since they took over Sahara. And since when did 10-year-old planes start becoming obsolete, they can push it to 20, just like Delta does it. B878-9 would actually be small for their requirements now. They need to focus on their Domestic network, which is inadequate and losing to competitions.

Slash787 · Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:43 am

BawliBooch wrote:
binayak wrote:
Why to always depend on BOM. Navi Mumbai airport can be a new long haul hub for 9W. The 10 789s for long hauls and 75 narrow bodies for domestic will be enough in addition to 75 737 max for replacement of fleet. 9W has just delayed their delivery but not cancelled the 789s.
And currently they are able to well utilize their 77Ws due to strong partnership with AF KLM DL. No need to replace them.

Navi Mumbai airport is a LOOONG way to completion. 2025 at minimum. Jet's 77W's are already over 10 years old on average. They will need to be replaced with something over the next 4 years. I think their deferred 787-9/10's would make for a good replacement.

If it matters they have exactly 10 787-9's on order - exactly the same number as their 77W's.

I agree with you on this, even I have a feeling that they will replace their 777's with the 789, but I wanted some new international routes from Jet Airways, for example AI ain't gonna start BOM - LAX anytime soon, I guess 9W could have done this route with the 789.

sand26391 · Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:34 pm

Interesting development this...

Jet Airways hires merger and acquisitions expert, Piero Ceschia, ahead of possible bid for Air India.
Jet Airways has announced the hiring of Piero Ceschia, a Senior Executive from Delta Airlines, who has earned a reputation for his expertise in merger and acquisitions, right before a potential run for Air India. Ceschia previously served as Vice President for Strategic Alliances in Delta. He has also had senior finance and corporate strategy roles in Air France-KLM and Alitalia.

http://aeropolitics.com/jet-airways-hir ... air-india/

Irehdna · Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:01 pm

Slash787 wrote:
BawliBooch wrote:
binayak wrote:
Why to always depend on BOM. Navi Mumbai airport can be a new long haul hub for 9W. The 10 789s for long hauls and 75 narrow bodies for domestic will be enough in addition to 75 737 max for replacement of fleet. 9W has just delayed their delivery but not cancelled the 789s.
And currently they are able to well utilize their 77Ws due to strong partnership with AF KLM DL. No need to replace them.

Navi Mumbai airport is a LOOONG way to completion. 2025 at minimum. Jet's 77W's are already over 10 years old on average. They will need to be replaced with something over the next 4 years. I think their deferred 787-9/10's would make for a good replacement.

If it matters they have exactly 10 787-9's on order - exactly the same number as their 77W's.

I agree with you on this, even I have a feeling that they will replace their 777's with the 789, but I wanted some new international routes from Jet Airways, for example AI ain't gonna start BOM - LAX anytime soon, I guess 9W could have done this route with the 789.

AI de-hubbed BOM in 2010, around when DEL T3 opened. Is it possible that Air India will restart a hub in MH (either BOM or NVM) when/if NVM opens? Or would this be an opportunity for 9W to consolidate its hub?

Slash787 · Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:58 pm

Irehdna wrote:
Slash787 wrote:
BawliBooch wrote:

AI de-hubbed BOM in 2010, around when DEL T3 opened. Is it possible that Air India will restart a hub in MH (either BOM or NVM) when/if NVM opens? Or would this be an opportunity for 9W to consolidate its hub?

Well if AI is still alive/active in 2024 then I could see them making New BOM as their hub, but they don't even have any new aircrafts on order apart from some neos and they are happy with the routes from Delhi at the moment.

binayak · Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:16 am

Irehdna wrote:
AI de-hubbed BOM in 2010, around when DEL T3 opened. Is it possible that Air India will restart a hub in MH (either BOM or NVM) when/if NVM opens? Or would this be an opportunity for 9W to consolidate its hub?

I think this will be a possibility of 9W consolidating its hub. It won't be wise even for the privatised AI to shift hub again. 9W could expand substantially after AI dehubbed BOM .They started a second daily BOM LHR and a BOM CDG . I don't think at this stage 9W will let any other carrier dominate at mumbai .

anshabhi · Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:03 am

Slash787 wrote:

Well if AI is still alive/active in 2024 then I could see them making New BOM as their hub, but they don't even have any new aircrafts on order apart from some neos and they are happy with the routes from Delhi at the moment.

Exactly. If privatization goes through then AI of 2024 would probably be very different from today. Its hard to make any predictions about AI at this time.

unrave · Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:55 am

anshabhi wrote:
If privatization goes through then AI of 2024 would probably be very different from today. Its hard to make any predictions about AI at this time.

Whoever acquires AI should change the hideous crew uniforms first.

MIAFLLPBIFlyer · Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:44 pm

binayak wrote:
Irehdna wrote:
AI de-hubbed BOM in 2010, around when DEL T3 opened. Is it possible that Air India will restart a hub in MH (either BOM or NVM) when/if NVM opens? Or would this be an opportunity for 9W to consolidate its hub?

I think this will be a possibility of 9W consolidating its hub. It won't be wise even for the privatised AI to shift hub again. 9W could expand substantially after AI dehubbed BOM .They started a second daily BOM LHR and a BOM CDG . I don't think at this stage 9W will let any other carrier dominate at mumbai .

9W also has a LOT more capacity from BOM to the gulf than AI. Higher frequency also.

binayak · Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:56 pm

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
9W also has a LOT more capacity from BOM to the gulf than AI. Higher frequency also.

Not only gulf but also London, Paris etc are destinations from BOM where 9W is the market leader. I think BOM is the only airport in the country where they have beaten all the LCCs including Indigo in market share. They won't leave this turf so easily.

CaliguyNYC · Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:09 pm

binayak wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
9W also has a LOT more capacity from BOM to the gulf than AI. Higher frequency also.

Not only gulf but also London, Paris etc are destinations from BOM where 9W is the market leader. I think BOM is the only airport in the country where they have beaten all the LCCs including Indigo in market share. They won't leave this turf so easily.

Agreed on BOM. 9W’s goal with AI is to have strong hubs in BOM & DEL. WIth AI, 9W would be THE dominant FSC in India. I think that is why AF/KL will support 9W on the purchase of AI. 9W/AI would finally give India a dominant FSC that would capture huge market shares of BOM/DEL/BLR premium traffic. Assuming they have even a decent FF program, business travelers would have very little incentive to fly EK or the LH group. That said, I still think AI is going to the TATA/SQ with maybe Alliance air going to Indigo. If that happens, 9W will continue to build out BLR & DEL as focus cities and strengthen BOM.

vadodara · Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:17 pm

BawliBooch wrote:

vadodara wrote:
9W has made a hash of fleet deployment deploying oversize aircraft like A340 when it flew to Johannesburg. Better to start with the MAX and increase frequency when the market supports. Can increase flights from other cities, add smaller cities like Mombassa, add Uganda, Tanzania and so forth.

In anycase, with the Delta guys at helm, expect more rational moves.

Errrr... is the Delta deal done & dusted already? Perhaps I missed that memo!

Back when Jet started JNB, the A330/A340 was the best aircraft for the route. Indeed for a while, the A340 was the only widebody they had. The 737-800's didnt have the range for the route. Even the 8MAX will struggle to do the route.

Didn’t your insider contacts tell u that Jet CEO is a former Delta guy?

Regarding JNB and A340: it seems to me that BOM has only Premium traffic. So Jet must be rather incompetent if it could not make money in that market given its deep political connections.

globetrotter94 · Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:04 pm

Slash787 wrote:
Irehdna wrote:
Slash787 wrote:

Well if AI is still alive/active in 2024 then I could see them making New BOM as their hub, but they don't even have any new aircrafts on order apart from some neos and they are happy with the routes from Delhi at the moment.

I would personally LOVE to see AI steal a move over 9W at the new BOM (or probably, it will be MUM, or MMB?). 2024 is a long time away, and things will probably be quite different at AI by that time.

Slash787 · Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:50 pm

globetrotter94 wrote:
Slash787 wrote:
Irehdna wrote:

Well if AI is still alive/active in 2024 then I could see them making New BOM as their hub, but they don't even have any new aircrafts on order apart from some neos and they are happy with the routes from Delhi at the moment.

I would personally LOVE to see AI steal a move over 9W at the new BOM (or probably, it will be MUM, or MMB?). 2024 is a long time away, and things will probably be quite different at AI by that time.

Well If AI goes in the right hands, I have travelled with Air India and Indian Airlines like 6 times in my life and every time I had a pretty bad experience, flights getting delayed by 3 to 4 hours, bagging coming after 1 hour, I only had a problem with 9W once, they forgot to load my bag and they said it will come on the next flight and they will deliver it to my house, the Airhostess personally came with my bag to my house, well this was 10 years ago, I guess this does not happens now, but it was very sweet of her.

9W with 75 Max orders and they are planning to add 75 more and with Spicejet having 150+ aircrafts on order, I am sure New Bombay will be their hub, I guess they will call it NVM.

globetrotter94 · Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:58 am

How do people feel about the choice of architects for Navi Mumbai Airport? I am personally not a fan of Zaha Hadid's work.

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