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devmapper
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Posts: 162
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2017

Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:46 am

It looks like the GOI is going ahead with the privatization plans for AI: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/government-to-go-ahead-with-air-indias-strategic-divestment/articleshow/62425711.cms

Can we have a new thread for the new year?
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 5881
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2017

Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:46 pm

Here are rough financials in a year. Anyone with elementary math skills can see there will be no savings to Indian Taxpayer.

1) Revenue - $3B
2) Operational Expenses - $2.3B
3) AV related debt service cost - $200M (on $3B AV related debt)
4) Working Capital debt Servicing cost - $800M (on $6.5B WC related debt)
5) Bailout - $300M (on average)
6) Non-performing real estate assets ($2B or more)

1,2 &3 go to Tatas giving instant profit of $500M/year
4,5 will be saddled with taxpayers sinking additional $600M/year without any revenue
6 At worst, in a panic, Modi Jaitly may giveaway residential real estate to employees (or) at best they will continue to be non-performing assets on GoI books.

What every bureaucrat and politician including all committees right now doing is to leave breadcrumbs suggesting not to do it, but publicly say privatization is the way to go. When this becomes a scam after the sale it will be solely on Modi. NITI Ayoog is not a legitimate constitutional entity, just a think tank, hence no responsibility.
 
royroy
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2017

Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:57 pm

Hi Guys

any new routes for 9W in the planning? Do they have any further widebody orders pending?

cheers
 
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qf789
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India Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:20 pm

Forum Moderator
 
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binayak
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2017

Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:54 pm

royroy wrote:
Hi Guys

any new routes for 9W in the planning? Do they have any further widebody orders pending?

cheers

As of now they might be planning to re enter USA once navi mumbai airport becomes operational.
They have 10 B789s to be delivered by 2019 and navi mumbai will be operational in 2020.
I would love to see them in the US again
9W must be declared as India's national airline. They will indirectly fulfill JRD's vision!!
 
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binayak
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:57 pm

Wow Air India is finally starting DEL-LAX.
However I think that a Hollywood Bollywood route might have been better.
anyone would like to agree with me?
9W must be declared as India's national airline. They will indirectly fulfill JRD's vision!!
 
royroy
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2017

Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:07 pm

binayak wrote:
royroy wrote:
Hi Guys

any new routes for 9W in the planning? Do they have any further widebody orders pending?

cheers

As of now they might be planning to re enter USA once navi mumbai airport becomes operational.
They have 10 B789s to be delivered by 2019 and navi mumbai will be operational in 2020.
I would love to see them in the US again


great thanks for the info, I'm quite surprised they don't fly the widebodies to DXB or AUH
 
hohd
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:33 pm

binayak wrote:
Wow Air India is finally starting DEL-LAX.
However I think that a Hollywood Bollywood route might have been better.
anyone would like to agree with me?


Not sure about DEL-LAX route. With the oil prices rising again, this ULH flight (the longest for AI) may not be profitable. SF is doing well and they should make it daily and perhaps think out of the box to bring passengers from LAX to SFO for connections, not just UA anyone (DL, AA, AS).

And BOM-LAX has even less traffic potential than DEL, where both O & D and connecting traffic would be higher.
 
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unrave
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:02 pm

http://www.atimes.com/article/bids-air- ... inha-says/

Indian Aviation Minister Jayant Sinha says the sell-off of Air India is on track and he believes bids will come in “six to eight months” with deals closed a few months after – toward the end of the year
Air India is a national embarrassment
 
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binayak
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2017

Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:35 pm

royroy wrote:
binayak wrote:
royroy wrote:
Hi Guys

any new routes for 9W in the planning? Do they have any further widebody orders pending?

cheers

As of now they might be planning to re enter USA once navi mumbai airport becomes operational.
They have 10 B789s to be delivered by 2019 and navi mumbai will be operational in 2020.
I would love to see them in the US again


great thanks for the info, I'm quite surprised they don't fly the widebodies to DXB or AUH

Jet used to fly a B777 in BOM-DXB route but later changed it back to B737. I think widebodies to gulf do not work with Jet because they mostly carry O&D passengers to gulf countries. Moreover their agreements with Air France-KLM & DL have strengthened so they are utilizing wide bodies to paris and amsterdam.
9W must be declared as India's national airline. They will indirectly fulfill JRD's vision!!
 
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binayak
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:40 pm

hohd wrote:
binayak wrote:
Wow Air India is finally starting DEL-LAX.
However I think that a Hollywood Bollywood route might have been better.
anyone would like to agree with me?


Not sure about DEL-LAX route. With the oil prices rising again, this ULH flight (the longest for AI) may not be profitable. SF is doing well and they should make it daily and perhaps think out of the box to bring passengers from LAX to SFO for connections, not just UA anyone (DL, AA, AS).

And BOM-LAX has even less traffic potential than DEL, where both O & D and connecting traffic would be higher.

Thank you
Actually I thought about BOM LAX because AI once confidently flew their 744 in BOM FRA LAX route ten years ago. They even claimed that it was profitable.
Maybe because of lack of ME3 competition ? The DEL LAX route was announced last may . Even I'm doubtful whether the flight will actually take off or AI will just be claiming the same thing after a few months or so. Anyways it will be nice to see AI at LAX after so many years.
9W must be declared as India's national airline. They will indirectly fulfill JRD's vision!!
 
devmapper
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:06 pm

qf789 wrote:


Thank you
 
vadodara
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:26 pm

 
 
 
sand26391
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:48 pm

BLR Pax traffic for calendar year 2017= 25,048,302.
BLR Dec 2017 pax= 2,501,412. Breakup= 2,126,188(DOM)+ 375,224(INTL)
So 1 more Indian airport enters the 25 million pax category.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 341
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2017

Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:36 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Here are rough financials in a year. Anyone with elementary math skills can see there will be no savings to Indian Taxpayer.

1) Revenue - $3B
2) Operational Expenses - $2.3B
3) AV related debt service cost - $200M (on $3B AV related debt)
4) Working Capital debt Servicing cost - $800M (on $6.5B WC related debt)
5) Bailout - $300M (on average)
6) Non-performing real estate assets ($2B or more)

1,2 &3 go to Tatas giving instant profit of $500M/year
4,5 will be saddled with taxpayers sinking additional $600M/year without any revenue
6 At worst, in a panic, Modi Jaitly may giveaway residential real estate to employees (or) at best they will continue to be non-performing assets on GoI books.

What every bureaucrat and politician including all committees right now doing is to leave breadcrumbs suggesting not to do it, but publicly say privatization is the way to go. When this becomes a scam after the sale it will be solely on Modi. NITI Ayoog is not a legitimate constitutional entity, just a think tank, hence no responsibility.


Huh AI bleeds every year and keeps ADDING debt. If the GOI sells: (1) the bleeding stops, (2) debt related to the airplanes is transferred and the price paid for AI will write down some of the remaining debt accumulated (you forgot that in your response above) - the remaining debt the GOI will eat, (3) the new buyer will improve AI service and help indian aviation grow. Why is this so complicated? I mean I never thought I would see so many posts where people are saying the GOI should stay in the aviation business. They need to get out. And no AI employees should not get one more chance to loot the airline under an autonomy scheme And no it should not be sold to QR or any other foreign party just wanting to bleed Indian aviation. Finally your post seems clouded by your opinion of Modi. If AI is sold to Tatas, Indigo, SpiceJet and the winner wins because they are friends of Modi, I could care less. It needs to go to a reputable Indian company and India is far from the perfect place when it comes to sales of govt assets - hell I would bet 90% of govt assets sales around the world go to “friends”. Btw there is no indication that Tatas or Indigo are going anything illegal wrt to the AI sale nor is there any evidence that Modi is either.
 
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binayak
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:03 am

sand26391 wrote:
BLR Pax traffic for calendar year 2017= 25,048,302.
BLR Dec 2017 pax= 2,501,412. Breakup= 2,126,188(DOM)+ 375,224(INTL)
So 1 more Indian airport enters the 25 million pax category.

It will be nice if any Indian airline hubs at BLR. Jet airways has shown interest in that. After Delhi and Mumbai, Bangalore has consistently been third busiest in India. It's high time that we're letting ME3 flood the market
9W must be declared as India's national airline. They will indirectly fulfill JRD's vision!!
 
royroy
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:05 pm

binayak wrote:
sand26391 wrote:
BLR Pax traffic for calendar year 2017= 25,048,302.
BLR Dec 2017 pax= 2,501,412. Breakup= 2,126,188(DOM)+ 375,224(INTL)
So 1 more Indian airport enters the 25 million pax category.

It will be nice if any Indian airline hubs at BLR. Jet airways has shown interest in that. After Delhi and Mumbai, Bangalore has consistently been third busiest in India. It's high time that we're letting ME3 flood the market


great stats, didn't 9W flirt with the idea of a direct BLR but opted for a 3rd BOM instead? sounds like a BLR hub may not be too far away
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2017

Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:13 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:

Huh AI bleeds every year and keeps ADDING debt. If the GOI sells: (1) the bleeding stops, (2) debt related to the airplanes is transferred and the price paid for AI will write down some of the remaining debt accumulated (you forgot that in your response above) - the remaining debt the GOI will eat, (3) the new buyer will improve AI service and help indian aviation grow. Why is this so complicated? I mean I never thought I would see so many posts where people are saying the GOI should stay in the aviation business. They need to get out. And no AI employees should not get one more chance to loot the airline under an autonomy scheme And no it should not be sold to QR or any other foreign party just wanting to bleed Indian aviation. Finally your post seems clouded by your opinion of Modi. If AI is sold to Tatas, Indigo, SpiceJet and the winner wins because they are friends of Modi, I could care less. It needs to go to a reputable Indian company and India is far from the perfect place when it comes to sales of govt assets - hell I would bet 90% of govt assets sales around the world go to “friends”. Btw there is no indication that Tatas or Indigo are going anything illegal wrt to the AI sale nor is there any evidence that Modi is either.


GoI is the reason AI adding more debt, not AI. Since privatization was announced AI added $1.5B new debt. $580M just for VVIP Planes.

Explain how is GoI going to eat the debt? This debt is held by Indian government-owned banks and interest is an important component for their survival. Even if GoI pays off Bank of India and others in one budget, they will go down because its annual revenue will be cut off. AI is the only good customer for them.

Why is the nostalgia or nationalistic view when this should be a business decision on behalf of taxpayers of a developing country.

Financially, QR is the best option, Indigo exhibited their ability to run an airline. Indigo gave EoI second day, AI(Int) should have been with Indigo by now.

But Ambani got Rafael (snatched from HAL), SpiceJet got one bailout and future seaplane venture, so Tatas are next in quid-pro-quo pecking order.

There is a dedicated AI privatization 2018 thread, we can continue this discussion on that thread.
 
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binayak
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:27 pm

royroy wrote:
binayak wrote:
sand26391 wrote:
BLR Pax traffic for calendar year 2017= 25,048,302.
BLR Dec 2017 pax= 2,501,412. Breakup= 2,126,188(DOM)+ 375,224(INTL)
So 1 more Indian airport enters the 25 million pax category.

It will be nice if any Indian airline hubs at BLR. Jet airways has shown interest in that. After Delhi and Mumbai, Bangalore has consistently been third busiest in India. It's high time that we're letting ME3 flood the market


great stats, didn't 9W flirt with the idea of a direct BLR but opted for a 3rd BOM instead? sounds like a BLR hub may not be too far away

Sorry can you explain a bit what you want to say? Are you talking about the 3rd BOM-LHR flight? 9W already has BLR-AMS and they have started BLR-CMB so that people from amsterdam can go to colombo via bangalore. This is a start of a new hub. Even navi mumbai will be ready in another 2 years . So 9W can have 2 powerful hubs-navi mumbai and bangalore. along with mumbai and delhi.
AI on the other hand cannot start a route which would not work from Delhi. for them, delhi is entire India. I am shocked that they did not start manchester given their vast european expansion. The reason is MAN has more demand from mumbai and not delhi. They had even withdrawn mumbai durban route in 2013 and still do not fly to south africa. Unless they can improve their route planning policies, no one can save them. In 2013, they had stopped multiple profitable routes out of BOM , some of which existed since JRD's time!!!! Who withdraws such routes which have been nurtured for decades and are well famous.? Their shifting to delhi is justifiable but their decision of " dehubbing BOM " can not be justified. Soon their BOM slots were taken over by other airlines. Airlines all over the world maintain multiple hubs. Even they could have done the same. Emirates has also taken advantage and have sent their A380 to BOM thus capturing the traffic. I don't think they could have done if AI had maintained their hub here.
Last edited by binayak on Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
9W must be declared as India's national airline. They will indirectly fulfill JRD's vision!!
 
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binayak
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2017

Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:31 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:

Huh AI bleeds every year and keeps ADDING debt. If the GOI sells: (1) the bleeding stops, (2) debt related to the airplanes is transferred and the price paid for AI will write down some of the remaining debt accumulated (you forgot that in your response above) - the remaining debt the GOI will eat, (3) the new buyer will improve AI service and help indian aviation grow. Why is this so complicated? I mean I never thought I would see so many posts where people are saying the GOI should stay in the aviation business. They need to get out. And no AI employees should not get one more chance to loot the airline under an autonomy scheme And no it should not be sold to QR or any other foreign party just wanting to bleed Indian aviation. Finally your post seems clouded by your opinion of Modi. If AI is sold to Tatas, Indigo, SpiceJet and the winner wins because they are friends of Modi, I could care less. It needs to go to a reputable Indian company and India is far from the perfect place when it comes to sales of govt assets - hell I would bet 90% of govt assets sales around the world go to “friends”. Btw there is no indication that Tatas or Indigo are going anything illegal wrt to the AI sale nor is there any evidence that Modi is either.


GoI is the reason AI adding more debt, not AI. Since privatization was announced AI added $1.5B new debt. $580M just for VVIP Planes.

Explain how is GoI going to eat the debt? This debt is held by Indian government-owned banks and interest is an important component for their survival. Even if GoI pays off Bank of India and others in one budget, they will go down because its annual revenue will be cut off. AI is the only good customer for them.

Why is the nostalgia or nationalistic view when this should be a business decision on behalf of taxpayers of a developing country.

Financially, QR is the best option, Indigo exhibited their ability to run an airline. Indigo gave EoI second day, AI(Int) should have been with Indigo by now.

But Ambani got Rafael (snatched from HAL), SpiceJet got one bailout and future seaplane venture, so Tatas are next in quid-pro-quo pecking order.

There is a dedicated AI privatization 2018 thread, we can continue this discussion on that thread.

I think Indigo should not buy AI. They already have a 41% percent domestic market share and increasing it would lead to unhealthy competition. It will be good for vistara if tata takes over AI. They are an emergent airline with excellent services.
9W must be declared as India's national airline. They will indirectly fulfill JRD's vision!!
 
sand26391
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:33 pm

9W has stopped booking on BLR-CMB route, IndiGo effect? Also apparently the 6E BLR-SIN flight is doing quiet well. Had ~80% occupancy yesterday...
 
sand26391
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:00 pm

royroy wrote:
binayak wrote:
sand26391 wrote:
BLR Pax traffic for calendar year 2017= 25,048,302.
BLR Dec 2017 pax= 2,501,412. Breakup= 2,126,188(DOM)+ 375,224(INTL)
So 1 more Indian airport enters the 25 million pax category.

It will be nice if any Indian airline hubs at BLR. Jet airways has shown interest in that. After Delhi and Mumbai, Bangalore has consistently been third busiest in India. It's high time that we're letting ME3 flood the market


great stats, didn't 9W flirt with the idea of a direct BLR but opted for a 3rd BOM instead? sounds like a BLR hub may not be too far away


BLR is not gonna be a TRUE Hub(like BOM,DEL) unless it gets its T2 in late 2021 and 2nd Runway in late 2019. Airasia India will have ~30 A/C based in BLR in the next 5 years acc to estimates. Acc to the latest masterplan update of BIAL, space is allotted for a T3(15-20 MPPA) next to 09R. 3rd RWY is on HOLD as of now.

Anyways here is a small update on the upcoming BLR T2:-
1) T2 will be developed in 2 phases, Ph1 25MPPA and Ph2 20MPPA. Total T2 will be a 45MPPA terminal.
2) T2 Phase 1 will be 254,230sqm for 25MPPA
3) T2 P1 will have 90 check-in counters, 22 security check lines, 36 emigration counters, 60 immigration counters, 9 baggage claim belts.
4) T2 will be an integrated terminal for DOM and INTL ops.
5) T2 Departures are located at LVL 3(+12m), LVL 2 is dedicated to Egress Corridors, Pax arrive at the MEZZANINE LVL 1(+5.25m) and circulate down to the ARR HALL on LVL 0(at grade level)
6) Each part of the terminal will have its "Sensory signature" ex F&B areas will focus on scented plantings and evocative flavors.
7 As of now T2 and T1 are not connected, but the terminal is still in design stage and BIAL and its partners is evaluating options regarding this. Ofcourse shuttle buses will be the last option if everything fails, as T1 and T2 distance will be <1km.
8) BIAL is READY for the Metro, 2 stations will come up at the campus. 1st opp IOC SKYTANK(Grade level) and 2nd will be UG somewhere btw T1 & T2.
9) RWY 2(NSPR) work has finally started and set to complete Late 2019.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2017

Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:21 pm

binayak wrote:
...
I think Indigo should not buy AI. They already have a 41% percent domestic market share and increasing it would lead to unhealthy competition. It will be good for vistara if tata takes over AI. They are an emergent airline with excellent services.


Or Vistara can merge with Jet Airways and AirAsia(India) with Indigo/SpiceJet and Tatas can exit Indian aviation one more time.

Vistara's CEO is from SIA. So what is stopping from having an impeccable growth even after 3 years?

All the conditions(money, management talent, and motive) TATA-SIA promise to bring to AI, are already present, haven't shown any results.
 
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binayak
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2017

Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:10 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
binayak wrote:
...
I think Indigo should not buy AI. They already have a 41% percent domestic market share and increasing it would lead to unhealthy competition. It will be good for vistara if tata takes over AI. They are an emergent airline with excellent services.


Or Vistara can merge with Jet Airways and AirAsia(India) with Indigo/SpiceJet and Tatas can exit Indian aviation one more time.

Vistara's CEO is from SIA. So what is stopping from having an impeccable growth even after 3 years?

All the conditions(money, management talent, and motive) TATA-SIA promise to bring to AI, are already present, haven't shown any results.

I think the major reason might be slots. The 2 major indian airports BOM & DEL are having lack of slots with the former being saturated. Vistara has arrived at a time when competition among indian airlines is at peak and airports lacking infrastructure. well things are gonna change in the next decade (maybe !!)
Vistara can have a joint venture with jet . Merger cannot be the ultimate solution where finally the power is vested upon one person only. TATA can cooperate with Naresh Goyal to have efficient international routes from multiple hubs.
9W must be declared as India's national airline. They will indirectly fulfill JRD's vision!!
 
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binayak
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:17 am

sand26391 wrote:
9W has stopped booking on BLR-CMB route, IndiGo effect? Also apparently the 6E BLR-SIN flight is doing quiet well. Had ~80% occupancy yesterday...

Sorry but I just checked their website and bookings were open for 9W 277/278.
They cannot be scared of Indigo in international sectors . They need to remain competitive to survive. What if Indigo really starts low cost long haul flights in the next decade ? Will jet stop flying to europe then? of course not .
Its indian aviation. Its competition!!!!
9W must be declared as India's national airline. They will indirectly fulfill JRD's vision!!
 
sand26391
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:26 am

^^Sorry you need to check again, frm FEB 1st the BLR-CMB is cancelled.
Never said 6E is the reason for 9w closure, I said maybe or perhaps the reason. It could be low yield or PLF.
Bookings wer closed wen i check in DEC when 6E didnt even announce CMB station.
IMO the timings of the 9W flight was way off.. even if they wanted to connect the CMB pax via BLR to AMS and beyond
 
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binayak
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:42 pm

sand26391 wrote:
^^Sorry you need to check again, frm FEB 1st the BLR-CMB is cancelled.
Never said 6E is the reason for 9w closure, I said maybe or perhaps the reason. It could be low yield or PLF.
Bookings wer closed wen i check in DEC when 6E didnt even announce CMB station.
IMO the timings of the 9W flight was way off.. even if they wanted to connect the CMB pax via BLR to AMS and beyond

my mistake!! I had checked for tomorrow's date.
9W must be declared as India's national airline. They will indirectly fulfill JRD's vision!!
 
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binayak
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:14 pm

Well after Mumbai, Delhi IGI sets a new record.
https://navbharattimes.indiatimes.com/m ... 562081.cms
1300 movements in a day?? Is this normal traffic or due to more of VIP movement?
*Please translate the article to english if you do not understand hindi
9W must be declared as India's national airline. They will indirectly fulfill JRD's vision!!
 
blrsea
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:02 am

A first for Indian skies: Domestic air traffic crossed 100 million in 2017

Domestic air traffic surged 17.4 per cent to cross the 100-million mark in 2017, a first for Indian skies.
...
Last month, airlines flew 11.2 million passengers, 17.8 per cent more than the same period in 2016. The load factor in 2017 was 86.1 per cent as against 83.9 per cent in 2016.
 
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unrave
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:18 pm

A note of interest is that IndiGo carried as may passengers in 2017 as the entire industry in 2009.
Air India is a national embarrassment
 
blrsea
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:16 am

Looks like the Dubai bilaterals increase is stuck. However, the PM is supposed to visit UAE later this year, and I think it will be resolved by then.

India pauses Dubai flying rights talks

The ministry did not see any rationale behind allowing more seats on the India-Dubai route "for now", the official said. India and Dubai allow airlines from each side to operate 65,000 seats per week, a quota that has been exhausted. While Dubai had sought an increase of 50,000 seats, Indian authorities had sought preferential treatment in slot allocation for Indian carriers at Dubai airport.


Meanwhile, both the pilots involved in the cockpit fight on 9W have had their license suspended by DGCA.

DGCA suspends flying licence of 2 Jet Airways pilots for 5 years

The pilots' flying privileges have been withdrawn for leaving the cockpit unattended and thereby jeopardising flight safety, a senior Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA)official said today.

During the suspension period, the two pilots will not be eligible to fly with any airlines.
 
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binayak
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:05 am

unrave wrote:
A note of interest is that IndiGo carried as may passengers in 2017 as the entire industry in 2009.

Even cricketers, celebrities have started choosing them. Looks like premium brands have no value in india!!!!!!!!!!
9W must be declared as India's national airline. They will indirectly fulfill JRD's vision!!
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:00 pm

It appears AI's new 77W VT-ALV has same business class seats as their 787s. Ferried yesterday to DEL.

Did they remove the first class?
 
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binayak
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:54 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
It appears AI's new 77W VT-ALV has same business class seats as their 787s. Ferried yesterday to DEL.

Did they remove the first class?

According to seat guru , Air India's 77W has one row( four first class seats) unlike their 77L having 8 of them. If they plan to deploy the plane to USA routes, they need to be careful regarding weight. I would have liked if they had configured the business class 1-2-1 like 9W.
9W must be declared as India's national airline. They will indirectly fulfill JRD's vision!!
 
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unrave
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:42 am

CAPA expects Indian domestic market to touch 150m passengers by 2019

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 712636.cms
Air India is a national embarrassment
 
devmapper
Topic Author
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:15 pm

Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:45 pm

binayak wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
It appears AI's new 77W VT-ALV has same business class seats as their 787s. Ferried yesterday to DEL.

Did they remove the first class?

According to seat guru , Air India's 77W has one row( four first class seats) unlike their 77L having 8 of them. If they plan to deploy the plane to USA routes, they need to be careful regarding weight. I would have liked if they had configured the business class 1-2-1 like 9W.


AI 788s have 2-2-2 J class seating which is perhaps better than the 2-3-2 J class on the 777s. India remains a price-conscious market and a luxurious J class product will probably lose money, which AI cannot afford to do now.

Removing F would be the correct step for AI. I think AI 777 aircraft desperately need an interior refresh, especially since TRAI allowed WiFi on flights in Indian airspace.
 
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binayak
Posts: 278
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:07 am

devmapper wrote:
binayak wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
It appears AI's new 77W VT-ALV has same business class seats as their 787s. Ferried yesterday to DEL.

Did they remove the first class?

According to seat guru , Air India's 77W has one row( four first class seats) unlike their 77L having 8 of them. If they plan to deploy the plane to USA routes, they need to be careful regarding weight. I would have liked if they had configured the business class 1-2-1 like 9W.


AI 788s have 2-2-2 J class seating which is perhaps better than the 2-3-2 J class on the 777s. India remains a price-conscious market and a luxurious J class product will probably lose money, which AI cannot afford to do now.

Removing F would be the correct step for AI. I think AI 777 aircraft desperately need an interior refresh, especially since TRAI allowed WiFi on flights in Indian airspace.

Right!!! The 2-3-2 J is outdated now. I would better sit between 2 people in Y than sleep between 2 in J. Well I think 9W has been successful with its J cabin
9W must be declared as India's national airline. They will indirectly fulfill JRD's vision!!
 
devmapper
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Posts: 162
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:36 pm

Why are all the Indian Full Service Carriers so tardy? https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 701595.cms
 
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unrave
Posts: 509
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:31 am

Budget 2018: Jaitley says airport capacity to increase 5 times to 1 billion trips a year.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 738685.cms
Air India is a national embarrassment
 
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binayak
Posts: 278
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:08 am

devmapper wrote:
Why are all the Indian Full Service Carriers so tardy? https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 701595.cms

It's not just full service airlines but all of them are tardy. Indigo for example closes the door of the aircraft and marks it as an on time departure even if the aircraft is on the tarmac for one hour. They increase the block time to such an extent that the flight will be marked on time even if delayed by an hour. Thus they have highest OTP. Jet and AI don't do the same. So they have so many flights marked delayed. The reason for their tardiness is congestion at airports.
9W must be declared as India's national airline. They will indirectly fulfill JRD's vision!!
 
vadodara
Posts: 494
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:26 pm

True, unless congestion is reduced principally at BOM and DEL, it will slow the system down.

Opening Hindon Airbase to Udaan flights is a very good move here. It is very critical for Indian economy, especially UP, Uttrakhand, Himachal etc to improve connectivity as a means to quickly transport tourists. This ofcourse is a stop-gap arrangement. Hopefully, Jewar operations are kicked-off early with a smaller runway and can gradually expand as traffic builds up.

No easy solutions for BOM. Perhaps, expanding Pune might be a better arrangement. Atleast some of the IT traffic plus from the industrial belt can avoid BOM altogether. We shall see what happens post AI privatization, if that happens. I am sure the private player will take a hard look at the assets and operations and do some serious house-cleaning. The Air India colonies for one may go to the highest bidder.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 341
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:43 pm

blrsea wrote:
Looks like the Dubai bilaterals increase is stuck. However, the PM is supposed to visit UAE later this year, and I think it will be resolved by then.


And India needs more seats to DXB why? The best thing the GOI did was not increase the ME3 for sometime. This has allowed both AI and Jet to expand. India proposed to the UAE that both sides move to one bilateral for all cities in UAE. This way Indian and UAE carriers could use seats from other cities to serve DXB-India routes. If that is what Modi will finalize, then great. If it's the same old give DXB more seats but India needs to maintain unusable seats to AUH and SHJ, then I say keep it the same. The UAE wants to have their cake and eat it too. They are one country and there needs to be a fair balance on what each COUNTRY gives (not by city because the UAE competes with itself). The fact that the UAE didn't jump on India's offer originally shows to me that they are not interested in fair deals for both countries. For once the GOI actually proposed fair, intellectually sound arguments. I support that 100%. And if no more seats are granted, EK can start to focus on O&D pax over connecting pax (since O&D DXB-India fares will rise and it should be about making profit - but it's really about having this huge global airline with Dubai benefitting all on India's back. Btw fates to Dubai from India are pretty cheap, so not really sure why more seats are needed. Airlines can make a profit and inbound tourism from DXB is not high (I don't count VFR). Cheaper fares just allow more Indians to travel to DXB over domestic trips. So again, what does Indian gain again? Finally both Spicejet and Indigo want to launch international LCC - doesn't increasing ME3 seats help this plan?
Last edited by CaliguyNYC on Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
IndyHoosier
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:35 am

Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:50 pm

vadodara wrote:
No easy solutions for BOM. Perhaps, expanding Pune might be a better arrangement. Atleast some of the IT traffic plus from the industrial belt can avoid BOM altogether. We shall see what happens post AI privatization, if that happens. I am sure the private player will take a hard look at the assets and operations and do some serious house-cleaning. The Air India colonies for one may go to the highest bidder.


I thought I read somewhere that a second airport in BOM is being built?
 
sand26391
Posts: 170
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:57 pm

Will take atleast 4 years for it to become operational. IMO Pune will open its new airport before NMIA
 
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unrave
Posts: 509
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:35 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
And India needs more seats to DXB why?

For starters, even Indian carriers have exhausted their quota and would want more bilateral seats to expand.

So again, what does Indian gain again?

This is frankly a very narrow minded view of things. Whether we like it or not UAE is very important to India for trade, investments, defence and employment.
Air India is a national embarrassment
 
vadodara
Posts: 494
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Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:33 pm

I concur. Developing DXB was the best thing that happened to Indian aviation.

Cities in Kerala, HYD, AMD and so forth got connectivity. Left to AI/AAI and others, nothing may have happened.
 
devmapper
Topic Author
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:15 pm

Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:49 pm

unrave wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
And India needs more seats to DXB why?

For starters, even Indian carriers have exhausted their quota and would want more bilateral seats to expand.

So again, what does Indian gain again?

This is frankly a very narrow minded view of things. Whether we like it or not UAE is very important to India for trade, investments, defence and employment.


I personally don't mind some increase in seats, there is sufficient O&D demand. I do however think there should be some way to ensure Indian carriers get landing slots evenly distributed through the day rather than bunched up at weird times.

I think GOI is holding out for a single bilateral to the UAE rather than individual emirates, which is perhaps a wise decision. India currently trades with UAE as a whole, not just individual emirates, so why not have the same for air services?
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 341
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: India Aviation Thread - 2018

Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:17 pm

unrave wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
And India needs more seats to DXB why?

For starters, even Indian carriers have exhausted their quota and would want more bilateral seats to expand.

So again, what does Indian gain again?

This is frankly a very narrow minded view of things. Whether we like it or not UAE is very important to India for trade, investments, defence and employment.


No one is saying to turn back the clock and reduce seats. India and the UAE are very well linked.Pax that want the joy of connecting through DXB have tons of options. There are plenty of unused seats with AUH and other emirates. If the allocate to all emirates then Indian carriers can have more usable seats and so can EK. That’s why the GOI suggestion makes the most sense. Also airfares between DXB and India are not high. EK is Just desperate to feed their international hub. Why is that India’s problem? The GOI has done a good job of connecting a ton of indian cities to the Middle East. Now it needs to help develop connectivity to EU, Asia, Africa, NA, Australia. Other than Europe, India has poor nonstop connectivity.
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