When I was in FWA recently there was talk of extending the second floor boarding area over the top of the rest of the terminal and adding more second floor gates.

With G4's recent miscues at SBN with a broken MD88 and an A320 which they were able to ferry substitute aircraft up to SBN quickly it seems like the airport needs to think about reinstalling the jetbridges on Gates 2 and 4 and possibly going to a Cute system and have it installed on all gates.

Well G4's SBN-LAS flight today is being operated with an Airbus A319 instead of the usual MD83. This is the first time G4 has used an Airbus on the LAS flight. This is either an aircraft substitution or will probably made permanent as this is one of G4's longest flights and the Airbus is cheaper to operate on this route vs the MD83.

freakyrat wrote:

Well G4's SBN-LAS flight today is being operated with an Airbus A319 instead of the usual MD83. This is the first time G4 has used an Airbus on the LAS flight. This is either an aircraft substitution or will probably made permanent as this is one of G4's longest flights and the Airbus is cheaper to operate on this route vs the MD83.

I must add that the biggest reason by far why G4 hasn't resumed FWA-LAS was because of the MD-80 issue.

As has been said on here before, G4 was faced with the decision to keep SBN or FWA to LAS long before the decision to adopt the A320 family and at a time of $100/barrel oil. SBN won because they could get $10 more per pax. Now that G4 is basing the A320 family in LAS and with much lower fuel prices, FWA-LAS can work again.

Please continue your discussion and to post your updates here.

Link to previous thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=607781

Any updates/rumors on AA coming back to SBN? It has been such a long time coming.....

DCAFlyer01 wrote:

Any updates/rumors on AA coming back to SBN? It has been such a long time coming.....

It is amazing the AA or One World doesn’t have any service to SBN considering the history of American Eagle service in the past as well as USAir and TWA.

SBN and AA have met a lot to discuss service between SBN and Dallas but nothing definite yet. AA would like to see SBN capturing 50% of their market. Although their is big demand for Texas service their continues to be high demand in the New York and Boston markets out of SBN. Five years ago Delta sent DGS in SBN and RFP for service to the New York Area specifically JFK. DGS responded but hasn't heard back from Delta.

On the international front: US Customs has cleared over 40 International GA flights into SBN through the General Aviation Facility. The Airport is having a hard time obtaining USDA approval on the commercial side over the regualted garbage issue. With the incineration facilities in place as part of the buildout of the Federal Inspection Station or FIS it is hard to believe that the USDA has been holding the airport hostage for over a year now in granting it's approval so that the airport can make a n RFP to air carriers for International flights. There seems to be a total lack of transparency on the part of SBN Airport management and/or the USDA on this issue and a 10 million dollar facility sits idle.

freakyrat wrote:

SBN and AA have met a lot to discuss service between SBN and Dallas but nothing definite yet. AA would like to see SBN capturing 50% of their market.

Personally, I think that the lack of AA is a huge reason why SBN can only capture 40% of the local market. The other is easy access to WN at MDW. Remember that AA is the largest airline in the US and world.

FWIW, FWA captures 65% of its core market, which includes Warsaw. Warsaw is the only overlapping market with SBN, and the reason behind the push for Texas service as Zimmer Biomet has a huge, growing Austin presence and AA can fill two CR9s a day from FWA to DFW. This is in addition to 3-4x daily ORD and 2x daily CLT service from AA at FWA.

It should be noted that AA was in FWA 13 years ago when FWA only kept 35% of its core market (the airport’s all time low after TZ pulled out). Of course, this was before the US merger.

When the toll road and I94 had ongoing construction last year people were choosing to fly SBN instead of taking WN out of MDW. In some markets where they overlap Delta fares out of SBN are competitive with WN fares out of MDW.

As far as FWA goes: AA out of DFW to FWA , fares are competitive with WN from DAL to IND and DAL to MDW. That is why I chose to use FWA last November when travelling from Dallas to South Bend because I live close to DFW vs DAL and the fare on American Eagle was only 30 dollars more than the WN fare to MDW or IND and it was an easy drive to Mishawaka using I69 and the Toll Road..

I also cannot understand why when Piedmont had it's DAY hub and ran mainline flights from SBN to DAY why US closed the DAY hub when they bought out Piedmont and consolidated at PIT. Moving the SBN flights to PIT instead of CLT was their number one EF UP. US service eventually deteriorated to the point of going from mainline to RJ's plus US filed for bankruptcy and they closed the PIT hub and with it the SBN flights. IMHO if SBN flights had been moved to the original Piedmont huib of CLT the SBN flights would have survived and AA would be there today and would have expanded to DFW after the US merger. Thus is why Delta and prior Northwest do so well connecting passengers in DTW because it is a lot closer than PIT like DAY was and required less backtracking if you wanted to go West or South out of SBN. Delta also in SBN connects in MSP and ATL so they totally smoked AA and UA with a variety of connecting points.

FWAERJ wrote:

freakyrat wrote:

SBN and AA have met a lot to discuss service between SBN and Dallas but nothing definite yet. AA would like to see SBN capturing 50% of their market.

Personally, I think that the lack of AA is a huge reason why SBN can only capture 40% of the local market. The other is easy access to WN at MDW. Remember that AA is the largest airline in the US and world.

FWIW, FWA captures 65% of its core market, which includes Warsaw. Warsaw is the only overlapping market with SBN, and the reason behind the push for Texas service as Zimmer Biomet has a huge, growing Austin presence and AA can fill two CR9s a day from FWA to DFW. This is in addition to 3-4x daily ORD and 2x daily CLT service from AA at FWA.

It should be noted that AA was in FWA 13 years ago when FWA only kept 35% of its core market (the airport’s all time low after TZ pulled out). Of course, this was before the US merger.

According to SBN airport officials the top busines markets for SBN flyers are 1. NYC/BOS 2. DFW 3. AUS/SAT and 4. HOU. SBN averages 65 or more passengers a day connecting to DFW. They average 30-40 per day flying to the BOS area.

While I was back in the US for Christmas, I was in and out of the EVV airport several times. One thing that I noticed, the restaurant/bar was never open, even on a Friday afternoon when I finally got out of EVV after the Wednesday winter storm that closed the airport on that day. And I also noticed that the TSA line into the B gates was so slow, way too slow for the size of the airport and with not a whole lot of pax going through the TSA screening. There were about 8 to 10 people in front of me and it took about 15 minutes to get through. Was so bad that the TSA guy got out from behind his little podium and was walking down the line checking everyone's ID and boarding pass.

SBN is making a service announcement tomorrow at 2 pm. Any thoughts? Please say AA

The Facebook announcement says “SBN is getting bigger” which leads me to believe it’s a new airline as opposed to new service from an existing airline, my bets are American or Frontier with Spirit as the long shot.

My bet for SBN: their first international service, which has been years in the making. The governor wouldn’t come to SBN for a new domestic flight when they’ve been talking international since G4 urged them sixteen years ago. But since G4’s res system won’t be ready for scheduled flights internationally, probably a charter to CUN or NAS.

FWAERJ wrote:

My bet for SBN: their first international service, which has been years in the making. The governor wouldn’t come to SBN for a new domestic flight when they’ve been talking international since G4 urged them sixteen years ago. But since G4’s res system won’t be ready for scheduled flights internationally, probably a charter to CUN or NAS.

I don't get the fixation on int'l flights from SBN, but maybe someone can explain it. To me having a strong domestic network is much much more important than having 1x weekly seasonal service to the Caribbean.

Personally, I hope it is more than charter flights... and if they are charter flights I hope there are no incentives going towards it. If incentives are going to be used, it would be much better if they went to domestic additions like SBN-DEN or SBN-DFW. Plus, I would be surprised if the governor drove 2.5 hours to SBN to announce a 1x weekly seasonal flight to CUN or NAS, but that is just me, and crazier things have happened....

I totally agree with you 100%!!! Add CLT too and you have huge bank of morning flights to the Caribbean and Central America on AA. Another scheduled carrier is needed.

jetskipper wrote:

The Facebook announcement says “SBN is getting bigger” which leads me to believe it’s a new airline as opposed to new service from an existing airline, my bets are American or Frontier with Spirit as the long shot.

I believe it may be American with flights to DFW, DCA and CLT.

If not it's Spirit flying to the Bahamas but I know Frontier's costs are in line now and they cannot wait to jump back into SBN.

Here is a longshot though. Notre Dame has been talking to a foreign carrier about twice a week flights to Dublin. I know who the carrier is but I cannot reveal it and it's not Norwegian.

AA to DFW and CLT according to Wikipedia........take that cautiously

FWAERJ wrote:

My bet for SBN: their first international service, which has been years in the making. The governor wouldn’t come to SBN for a new domestic flight when they’ve been talking international since G4 urged them sixteen years ago. But since G4’s res system won’t be ready for scheduled flights internationally, probably a charter to CUN or NAS.

If it is an International flight it's bigger than this if Notre Dame is involved but I do not want to speculate on the carrier. I know Notre Dame has been talking to a certain foreign international carrier about twice weakly service to Dublin.

DCAFlyer01 wrote:

I totally agree with you 100%!!! Add CLT too and you have huge bank of morning flights to the Caribbean and Central America on AA. Another scheduled carrier is needed.

SBN would then capture more that 50% of the local market by bringing AA back in. AA adding a morning flight to CLT would also spur Delta to add a morning B717 mainline flight to ATL to compete. Deltas morning loads to ATL are over 90% so much that they have no room for non-revs.

Midwestindy wrote:

FWAERJ wrote:

My bet for SBN: their first international service, which has been years in the making. The governor wouldn’t come to SBN for a new domestic flight when they’ve been talking international since G4 urged them sixteen years ago. But since G4’s res system won’t be ready for scheduled flights internationally, probably a charter to CUN or NAS.

I don't get the fixation on int'l flights from SBN, but maybe someone can explain it. To me having a strong domestic network is much much more important than having 1x weekly seasonal service to the Caribbean.

Personally, I hope it is more than charter flights... and if they are charter flights I hope there are no incentives going towards it. If incentives are going to be used, it would be much better if they went to domestic additions like SBN-DEN or SBN-DFW. Plus, I would be surprised if the governor drove 2.5 hours to SBN to announce a 1x weekly seasonal flight to CUN or NAS, but that is just me, and crazier things have happened....

Here are the flights that SBN has been working on for your speculation.

American twice daily to DFW once daily to CLT and DCA. They been working hard to convince American to return. Plenty of AA Platinum Elites live in the area.

United service to DEN and IAH

Allegiant twice weekly seasonal service to MYR

Frontier possible return of daily flight to DEN. Frontier took over 4.5 million dollars out of SBN on their short lived service. With their present cost structure their yields would be better this time around.

Delta daily service to JFK to connect to International. Delta has solicited an RFP with local DGS folks for the JFK flight and knows Larger Jets are also needed to Atlanta.

This is also something way out in the future. In SBN's Master Plan they have a huge 20 gate terminal including Customs to be built on the North side of the airport off of Nimitz Parkway.

freakyrat wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

FWAERJ wrote:

My bet for SBN: their first international service, which has been years in the making. The governor wouldn’t come to SBN for a new domestic flight when they’ve been talking international since G4 urged them sixteen years ago. But since G4’s res system won’t be ready for scheduled flights internationally, probably a charter to CUN or NAS.

I don't get the fixation on int'l flights from SBN, but maybe someone can explain it. To me having a strong domestic network is much much more important than having 1x weekly seasonal service to the Caribbean.

Personally, I hope it is more than charter flights... and if they are charter flights I hope there are no incentives going towards it. If incentives are going to be used, it would be much better if they went to domestic additions like SBN-DEN or SBN-DFW. Plus, I would be surprised if the governor drove 2.5 hours to SBN to announce a 1x weekly seasonal flight to CUN or NAS, but that is just me, and crazier things have happened....

Here are the flights that SBN has been working on for your speculation.

American twice daily to DFW once daily to CLT and DCA. They been working hard to convince American to return. Plenty of AA Platinum Elites live in the area.

Allegiant twice weekly seasonal service to MYR

Frontier possible return of daily flight to DEN. Frontier took over 4.5 million dollars out of SBN on their short lived service. With their present cost structure their yields would be better this time around.

Delta daily service to JFK to connect to International. Delta has solicited an RFP with local DGS folks for the JFK flight and knows Larger Jets are also needed to Atlanta.

I doubt "plenty" of AA FFs are in the area, considering SBN doesn't even have service on AA

Plus, I also doubt DL makes a serious push to add SBN-JFK in the next year or two. SBN-NYC isn't that large of a market (~50 PDEW) and is already served by UA, plus UA is having trouble as it is filling up their flights to EWR so DL adding SBN-JFK could cannibalize both flights. I think PHL, DFW, CLT, DEN, and maybe DCA are bigger fish to fry for the legacies.

Inside Indiana Business specifically says this is an economic development announcement.

With that said, the last time they used that term IND got the Allegiant base.

I can put my money on that this announcement is either an aircraft base or infrastructure build up announcement, NOT adding flights. Now, this will lead to future flight growth if this turns out to be the case.

Economic development = Job creation. (Which would bring flights in future announcements.)

For the people saying CUN and NAS. The governor doesn't attend small stuff like that.

My theory is that this is an infrastructure related announcement.

Per another post, it was announced today via internal AA communications that the new routes are SBN-CLT/DFW.

Congrats to SBN

Here it is!! Finally! http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zht ... ID=2327315

http://resource.globenewswire.com/Resou ... 74c186cf8d

Looks like FWA got PHL service back. Good day for Indiana aviation announcements.

Not sure this is worthy of a governor visit, but I guess they like to show their faces around positive news.

I stand corrected. I hate that the media made it sound like something else.

This is finally good news for SBN and FWA. How many years has SBN worked to get American back?

SBN has a lot of American Platinum Elites living in the area. I'll bet they are happy.

Now for speculation. What jets are they going to use in SBN? They would have to use CRJ9's or E175's for Dallas because they can fill those seats and FWA uses CRJ9's, for CLT I do not know.

freakyrat wrote:

Now for speculation. What jets are they going to use in SBN? They would have to use CRJ9's or E175's for Dallas because they can fill those seats and FWA uses CRJ9's, for CLT I do not know.

Flights haven’t been loaded yet, but I would be surprised if the routes were started with anything bigger than 50 seats unless Zimmer transferred their contract from FWA to SBN.

freakyrat wrote:

SBN has a lot of American Platinum Elites living in the area. I'll bet they are happy.

Or EXPs not living in SBN but travel to SBN regularly. I will never have to have to take United Limo again or rent a car from ORD.

jetskipper wrote:

freakyrat wrote:

Now for speculation. What jets are they going to use in SBN? They would have to use CRJ9's or E175's for Dallas because they can fill those seats and FWA uses CRJ9's, for CLT I do not know.

Flights haven’t been loaded yet, but I would be surprised if the routes were started with anything bigger than 50 seats unless Zimmer transferred their contract from FWA to SBN.

Agreed on an ER4 or CR2 to start for both DFW and CLT. SBN's SCASD grant application several years ago for FWA-DFW called for 2x daily service on a 50-seater, and I don't expect that to change.

As for Zimmer Biomet: the company is a huge user of the FWA-DFW flight and I don't expect that to change. But the contract with AA could be tweaked slightly and they could offer a choice of FWA or SBN as long as they fly AA.

FWAERJ wrote:

jetskipper wrote:

freakyrat wrote:

Now for speculation. What jets are they going to use in SBN? They would have to use CRJ9's or E175's for Dallas because they can fill those seats and FWA uses CRJ9's, for CLT I do not know.

Flights haven’t been loaded yet, but I would be surprised if the routes were started with anything bigger than 50 seats unless Zimmer transferred their contract from FWA to SBN.

Agreed on an ER4 or CR2 to start for both DFW and CLT. SBN's SCASD grant application several years ago for FWA-DFW called for 2x daily service on a 50-seater, and I don't expect that to change.

As for Zimmer Biomet: the company is a huge user of the FWA-DFW flight and I don't expect that to change. But the contract with AA could be tweaked slightly and they could offer a choice of FWA or SBN as long as they fly AA.

So how many Zimmer people actually fly out of FWA daily? I keep seeing everyone mention this and it seems like Zimmer spends a lot of money on plane tickets.

I would also expect the DFW flights to go Mainline American on Notre Dame Football weekends.

Looks like SBN will have to come up with the money to order or to reinstall the jetbridges up on Gates 2 and 4. That would be American Eagle on Gates 2 and 4, Allegiant on 3 and 9, Delta on 5 and 6 and United on 7 and 8.

Service in SBN starts June 7th and is bookable after Jan 22nd.

Here is the press conference https://www.facebook.com/NewsCenter16/v ... 603416130/

Fantastic. Still wish they would do DCA but this makes sense connection-wise.

FWAERJ wrote:

and AA can fill two CR9s a day from FWA to DFW. This is in addition to 3-4x daily ORD and 2x daily CLT service from AA at FWA.

Can they? The flights are being downguaged to CR7s this spring. Probably the more appropriate aircraft for the mission.

flyinryan99 wrote:

FWAERJ wrote:

and AA can fill two CR9s a day from FWA to DFW. This is in addition to 3-4x daily ORD and 2x daily CLT service from AA at FWA.

Can they? The flights are being downguaged to CR7s this spring. Probably the more appropriate aircraft for the mission.

That's replacing the 76 seat CRJ9 with a 64 seat CRJ7 still with First Class seating.

All SBN flights will be with dual class CRJ700 aircraft.

flyinryan99 wrote:

FWAERJ wrote:

and AA can fill two CR9s a day from FWA to DFW. This is in addition to 3-4x daily ORD and 2x daily CLT service from AA at FWA.

Can they? The flights are being downguaged to CR7s this spring. Probably the more appropriate aircraft for the mission.

There’s also the SkyWest factor - they fly the CR7 (not the CR9), have a DFW crew base, and have a FWA maintenance base that is now maintaining the larger CRJs.

capitalflyer wrote:

Fantastic. Still wish they would do DCA but this makes sense connection-wise.

DCA may be coming if AA can get the slots. As SBN-BOS is a newly developing O/D market according to the DOT this makes sense connecting to the DCA-BOS shuttle.

FWAERJ wrote:

flyinryan99 wrote:

FWAERJ wrote:

and AA can fill two CR9s a day from FWA to DFW. This is in addition to 3-4x daily ORD and 2x daily CLT service from AA at FWA.

Can they? The flights are being downguaged to CR7s this spring. Probably the more appropriate aircraft for the mission.

There’s also the SkyWest factor - they fly the CR7 (not the CR9), have a DFW crew base, and have a FWA maintenance base that is now maintaining the larger CRJs.

Nice try...I’ve been told by multiple different sources that route performance is why it’s downguaged. Lucky to get PHL back because of state wide tax incentives.

flyinryan99 wrote:

FWAERJ wrote:

flyinryan99 wrote:

Can they? The flights are being downguaged to CR7s this spring. Probably the more appropriate aircraft for the mission.

There’s also the SkyWest factor - they fly the CR7 (not the CR9), have a DFW crew base, and have a FWA maintenance base that is now maintaining the larger CRJs.

Nice try...I’ve been told by multiple different sources that route performance is why it’s downguaged. Lucky to get PHL back because of state wide tax incentives.

This will probably kill UA EWR-FWA, right? They should try DEN-FWA if they do end the EWR flight.