flymco753 wrote:

DL will run SBN-DTW on the 717 on Sundays in September.

Is this only for ND home games or all Sundays? If not, that’s the first scheduled major airline Mainline service in almost 18 years.

USAir, Northwest and Delta pulled their Mainline service from SBN all around the same time in the late 90s/early 20s.

jetskipper wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

DL will run SBN-DTW on the 717 on Sundays in September.

Is this only for ND home games or all Sundays? If not, that’s the first scheduled major airline Mainline service in almost 18 years.

USAir, Northwest and Delta pulled their Mainline service from SBN all around the same time in the late 90s/early 20s.

It appears to run for a few Sundays in September, they’re offering $88 one way fares too. A lot of UM folks who are Delta FF’s would shelve over a small sum of miles to go to the game.

I took the CLT -SBN flight on Monday evening. We landed at 1:00 am (hours late), not ideal. I have heard these flights have been late more often than not. The strange thing is that the flight starts at TYS-DFW-SBN-CLT-SBN Any issue earlier in the day affects everything. Business people will not put up with this. The last SBN flight to CLT misconnected for everything. I am ExPlat on AA and as I was sitting in F after Group 1 boarded, I noticed boarding passes in other passengers hands were mostly Group 9. Meaning most passengers are paying the lowest fare offered. My concern is even though they are selling seats they may not be making enough money. I am hoping this was just the exception. Butts in seats does not equal successful routes unfortunately. Just my 2 cents.

freakyrat wrote:

Irregardless of OO's maintenance base at SBN, SBN officials have been meeting with DL officials requestinmg Mainline upgrades for some flights to ATL. Delta is currently operating an afternoon CRJ900 6X a week on the route. Around the same time that AA started service in SBN DL did operate a Mainline B717 flight into SBN from ATL and flew it to MSP on the first flight the next day. These flights were no way connected to anything going on at Notre Dame and had an average of 86 passengers each. So Delta knows that the market is there.

I wonder how much financially OO has tied to the SBN and FWA mx bases. With these bases hare is only makes sense that RJs keep flying to SBN and FWA. Otherwise why have them.

I'd rather keep RJ flying and have higher frequency as compared to having mainline. I guess one question is is their enough demand to introduce mainline at SBN and keep frequency or do they get mainline and lose an RJ flight. Guess we will see if it ever happens.

DCAFlyer01 wrote:

I took the CLT -SBN flight on Monday evening. We landed at 1:00 am (hours late), not ideal. I have heard these flights have been late more often than not. The strange thing is that the flight starts at TYS-DFW-SBN-CLT-SBN Any issue earlier in the day affects everything. Business people will not put up with this. The last SBN flight to CLT misconnected for everything. I am ExPlat on AA and as I was sitting in F after Group 1 boarded, I noticed boarding passes in other passengers hands were mostly Group 9. Meaning most passengers are paying the lowest fare offered. My concern is even though they are selling seats they may not be making enough money. I am hoping this was just the exception. Butts in seats does not equal successful routes unfortunately. Just my 2 cents.

I live in CLT and fly AA 99% of the time. I can say that most of my regional flights out of here are delayed as well as the returns coming back into CLT. It is really inconvenient for business! Throw constant baggage issues into the mix and it is a total disaster.

The tendency for regional flights from hubs like ORD or CLT to regional airports like FWA to get delayed or cancelled first, before mainline gets delayed or cancelled, is one reason why I no longer fly into my hometown FWA (plus the time wasted connecting, plus the cramped nature of RJs themselves and the RJ-only service at FWA). I have abandoned FWA in favour of flying nonstop DEN-IND on WN and driving up to Fort Wayne.

SmithAir747

I do not know how many people are paying the lowest fares out of SBN but I'm sure yield management is taking a close look at them. I can understand how these flights have been late with the way they are doing the aircraft utilization. Most I checked have been on time or early though. AA is doing quite well on these for the first two months as there is talk of adding another hub to the mix out of SBN most likely MIA. The flights also have not affected Delta's loads one iota. Talking to the United folks at SBN they informed me that they have been pressing for two E175 flights a day to their DEN hub as they fly a lot of connects to LAX and SFO out of SBN and need the DEN flights to connect these passengers more reliably than at ORD. Also the United EWR flight is mostly full all the time and it has a great amount of O/D traffic. With the trend lately of UA beginning to use IAD for connecting passengers they feel it's just a matter of time before UA adds a SBN-IAD flight for East Coast Connects. So I would look for AA-MIA and UA-IAD and DEN as the next markets to be served out of SBN. I have a picture of the replacement Jetway at the Allegiant Gate 9 and this is one equipped with all the bells and whistles and is brand new. It appears when stretched out that it could reach sill heights of a B777/A330 comfortably. The Facilities booklet that depicts the complete remodel of the terminal building is starting slowly with the ticket counters with Delta and United next to get the remodels. That's all from SBN for now.

flymco753 wrote:

jetskipper wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

DL will run SBN-DTW on the 717 on Sundays in September.

Is this only for ND home games or all Sundays? If not, that’s the first scheduled major airline Mainline service in almost 18 years.

USAir, Northwest and Delta pulled their Mainline service from SBN all around the same time in the late 90s/early 20s.

It appears to run for a few Sundays in September, they’re offering $88 one way fares too. A lot of UM folks who are Delta FF’s would shelve over a small sum of miles to go to the game.

I did a little research and this B717 upgrade is only on ND Home game weekends. LGA, ATL and DTW will all see Mainline on home game Sundays. It looks like UA will be upgrading at least 3 of the E145s to E175s for home games. Finally it looks like AA will be adding a third SBN-DFW flight for home games.

Could see A320’s on some of the ND football weekend upgrades but should be mostly B717’s because they can use the lower jetbridges on gates 5 and 6. AA has had to add a third DFW-SBN flight on Fridays of the football weekends and is offering a great fare back to DFW so it doesn’t have to fly empty back home. SBN is working on one daily mainline Atlanta flight as the service is justified irregardless or Skywest having line maintenance at SBN. As in my previous post I would expect to see a resumption of Denver by United in addition to probably Washington Dulles and service on American Eagle to Miami. The future is bright for SBN and it seems like Project Propel is working and the addition of American has stimulated traffic.

News rom SBN. AA is doing great at SBN and will over the next 18 months add flights to PHL and possibly MIA. The new Jetbridge on Gate 9 can be stretched out to 117 feet and is fully ADA compliant for use with all International wide bodied aircraft that could fly into SBN like B767/787A330 etc. It also includes Aircraft power and AC connections. The terminal remodel in the Facilities Booklet on the airport webpage is a multi year plan. The Delta ticket counter will be remodeled next followed by United. I also saw an American Eagle CRJ700 parked on the Skywest maintenance ramp which means they either have a spare aircraft at SBN or are doing maintenance on it.

freakyrat wrote:

News rom SBN. AA is doing great at SBN and will over the next 18 months add flights to PHL and possibly MIA.

Do you have a source on this?

jworks158 wrote:

freakyrat wrote:

News rom SBN. AA is doing great at SBN and will over the next 18 months add flights to PHL and possibly MIA.

Do you have a source on this?

Local contractor personnel for AA advised that American will add a third hub over the next 18 months. They said PHL and MIA is an additional possibility. I’ll wait for any official announcements however I don’t think they would have mentioned a third hub if they haven’t already been informed. Both DFW and CLT flights fill up on prime days of the week. Appears that the Skywest maintenance base is also working on CRJ700’s from them and their subsidiary as I saw an Eagle one on their hangar ramp. Lots of things are going on at SBN. Ticket counters are being remodeled. Eagle returned the PHL flight to FWA even with crappy load factors. American Eagle flights at SBN are averaging 87% load factors. I talked to some passengers this past Friday off of the afternoon DFW flight who said it was full. Sure looked it from the crowd at baggage claim.

enilria just did a schedule update. Anyone have a clue on:

*UA EWR-SBN JAN 1.0>0.2[1.0] FEB 1.0>0[1.0] MAR 1.0>0.8[1.0]

atypical wrote:

enilria just did a schedule update. Anyone have a clue on:

*UA EWR-SBN JAN 1.0>0.2[1.0] FEB 1.0>0[1.0] MAR 1.0>0.8[1.0]

Well, UA is shifting a lot to IAD so maybe they are going back to a daily rotation to EWR and adding an IAD flight. Guess we'll see.

United is running two daily Newark flights during Notre Dame Football season through December. Local United folks are asking for an IAD flight as UA is shifting regional jet connections to IAD. Newark flight will remain because it is highly profitable for United and has a lot of O/D traffic. Local United folks are also asking for twice daily E175 flights to DEN.

Here are all the routes on SBN's wish list or planned by SBN's carriers

AA SBN-PHL daily CRJ700 planned within the next 18 months
DL SBN-ATL requested aircraft upgrade for a daily B717 mainline flight. Afternoon flight sees an Endeavor CRJ900 execpt on Wednesdays. Local DGS folks still have an opon
RFP for a daily SBN-JFK flight.
UA SBN-DEN twice daily E175 flights in order to offer an alternative to ORD for west coast connections, Too many weather delays/cancellations at ORD make UA connecting
flights unrelaiable.
SBN-IAD UA is shifting regional jet connections to IAD. Daily EWR flight will remain because of high volume O/D business traffic.
SBN-IAH request for a daily flight. IAH being the number 4 business destination for SBN travelers

G4 SBN-MYR request for seasonal service being worked on by both airports.
SBN-CUN request for twice weekly seasonal service.

In regard to International flights. SBN's new computer controlled jetbridge on the International Gate 9 is the first of it's kind for the airport. It can be stretched out to 117 ft. It can also reach aircraft door sill heights of the Airbus A330/350 and Boeing 757/767/777/787 and comply with the ADA requirements as to slope. It also includes ground power and aircraft A/C connections.

Here is the deal on the SBN-EWR flight there will be two daily flights to EWR from SBN using an E145 aircraft. The second flight starts in September and runs till Dec 15th as in previous years. The first flight is operated by Expressjet and the second by CommutAir. After Dec 15th the afternoon flight is discontinued and the morning flight willl be operated by CommutAir. I hope this clears everything up. No word or any mention of an IAD flight in the schedule as of now.

SBN is up 24% over June of last year thanks to AA's extra 260 pax per day enplaned. My guess earlier is pretty accurate so far. Numbers suggest about 755,000 total pax on/off for 2018 if the trend continues. Also, international GA is up.

It looks like SBN and FWA will be about 65 pax a day apart for 2018. It's a tight race.

My previous guess was:

SBN :: 731,640 total pax in 2018
FWA :: 779,712 total pax in 2018

cleared2land wrote:

SBN is up 24% over June of last year thanks to AA's extra 260 pax per day enplaned. My guess earlier is pretty accurate so far. Numbers suggest about 755,000 total pax on/off for 2018 if the trend continues. Also, international GA is up.

It looks like SBN and FWA will be about 65 pax a day apart for 2018. It's a tight race.

My previous guess was:

SBN :: 731,640 total pax in 2018
FWA :: 779,712 total pax in 2018

This also doesn't take into consideration DL Mainline flights on ND Football weekends and American extra flights or United aircraft upgrades on those weekends. Next year ought to be inbteresting with the possible addition of PHL by AA and any aircraft upgrades on DL or a complete surprise with something like the return of F9 and seasonal G4 service to MYR. According to local folks contracted for AA, PHL definitely is the next market coming. SBN also may get an IAD flight on UA.

http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/st ... faa-grants

Indiana Airports Receive FAA Grants

SBN's June numbers are in. The new service on AA began on June 7th and is one reason traffic was up nearly 24%.

http://flysbn.com/wp-content/uploads/20 ... n-2018.pdf

According to the Allegiant website and interactive route map EVV-VPS is cut and gone. Anybody know how the loads were on that route??

Any new rumour about a LON interest for next summer?

Looking forward at the Allegiant fall schedule, starting October 3rd the LAS-SBN leg will be a red-eye departing LAS at 11:25 pm and arriving SBN at 6:00 am the following day. This will be the first ever red-eye flight for SBN.

jetskipper wrote:

Looking forward at the Allegiant fall schedule, starting October 3rd the LAS-SBN leg will be a red-eye departing LAS at 11:25 pm and arriving SBN at 6:00 am the following day. This will be the first ever red-eye flight for SBN.

Would require a late checkout at the Casinos. They would also get people to Vegas way early to start their vacations.

The Allegiant Redeye return flight into SBN is priced at 70-80 dollars with the lowest fare on the SBN leg to Vegas at 135.00.

Jayafe wrote:

Any new rumour about a LON interest for next summer?

Not for next summer, possibly in 2-3 years.

SmithAir747 wrote:

The tendency for regional flights from hubs like ORD or CLT to regional airports like FWA to get delayed or cancelled first, before mainline gets delayed or cancelled, is one reason why I no longer fly into my hometown FWA (plus the time wasted connecting, plus the cramped nature of RJs themselves and the RJ-only service at FWA). I have abandoned FWA in favour of flying nonstop DEN-IND on WN and driving up to Fort Wayne.

SmithAir747

Food for thought: the OO FWA MX base will be seeing E-Jets soon. FWA currently lacks E-Jet service on any airline, but OO operates them for UA, AA, and DL.

If UA/OO started DEN-FWA on an E175, would it be enough for you to switch back?

And given how F9 is expanding and entering smaller markets, could we see F9 entering FWA in some form, not just returning to SBN?

FWAERJ wrote:

SmithAir747 wrote:

The tendency for regional flights from hubs like ORD or CLT to regional airports like FWA to get delayed or cancelled first, before mainline gets delayed or cancelled, is one reason why I no longer fly into my hometown FWA (plus the time wasted connecting, plus the cramped nature of RJs themselves and the RJ-only service at FWA). I have abandoned FWA in favour of flying nonstop DEN-IND on WN and driving up to Fort Wayne.

SmithAir747

Food for thought: the OO FWA MX base will be seeing E-Jets soon. FWA currently lacks E-Jet service on any airline, but OO operates them for UA, AA, and DL.

If UA/OO started DEN-FWA on an E175, would it be enough for you to switch back?

And given how F9 is expanding and entering smaller markets, could we see F9 entering FWA in some form, not just returning to SBN?

If there were a UA/OO DEN-FWA E175 service, I'd jump on that. (If I remain in Denver longer/after this year, that is; I may be moving elsewhere job-related.)

SmithAir747

FWAERJ wrote:

If UA/OO started DEN-FWA on an E175, would it be enough for you to switch back?

Possibly, but it would have to be early morning/late return for me. With IND being two hours away and MDW being three, it makes far more sense for me to catch a non-stop to LAX or a connection through PHX as opposed to DFW or (shudder) ORD....

Also, don't know what it is with the TSA at FWA but apparently I am a favorite of theirs as I keep getting pulled for additional screening almost every time I fly out of FWA. Doesn't happen in SNA/LAX/CPT/LHR/MDW/IND/etc....

bwohlgemuth wrote:

With IND being two hours away and MDW being three, it makes far more sense for me to catch a non-stop to LAX or a connection through PHX as opposed to DFW or (shudder) ORD.....

IND is fine, but you couldn't pay me to use MDW. Security is a nightmare, Chicago traffic could cause you to miss your flight, parking is a mess, and the delays are long.

Back when I first used MDW and lived in Chicagoland, the situation was very different.

FWAERJ wrote:

Back when I first used MDW and lived in Chicagoland, the situation was very different.

I grew up in Oak Lawn so I'm pretty familiar with the area. Only thing is there's a non stop to SNA which is easier for work. More options for LAX-MDW as well.

FWA to LAX...I lose a couple of hours at DFW and I have ORD as a no-fly zone from October through April.

SBN's July numbers are in: they are up 30% over July of 2017. They still look to be on track to hit around 725,000 total pax for 2018.

Omni Air recently ran a charter flight out of SBN nonstop to RJSS, Naroti Japan. Has to be the longest air carrier charter flight out of SBN so far.

SmithAir747 wrote:

The tendency for regional flights from hubs like ORD or CLT to regional airports like FWA to get delayed or cancelled first, before mainline gets delayed or cancelled, is one reason why I no longer fly into my hometown FWA (plus the time wasted connecting, plus the cramped nature of RJs themselves and the RJ-only service at FWA). I have abandoned FWA in favour of flying nonstop DEN-IND on WN and driving up to Fort Wayne.

SmithAir747

This is one of he reasons that the local United Folks at SBN are asking for two daily E175 flights to Denver (to bypass ORD) along with a daily flight to Washington Dulles for east coast connecting passengers over Newark. The SBN-EWR flight does well but United would like to shift the connecting passengers to Dulles and leave this Newark flight for the higher profitable O/D passengers as this flight already flies a higher percentage of those passengers. United also flies a large percentage of West Coast and Asia connecting passengers out of SBN who according to local officials would be better served for reliable connections in Denver.

Correction to my post The flight out of SBN went to RJSS Natori Japan Nonstop. This is the city that was devastated by an earthquake and tsunami in 2011

freakyrat wrote:

Correction to my post The flight out of SBN went to RJSS Natori Japan Nonstop. This is the city that was devastated by an earthquake and tsunami in 2011

What aircraft was used? I’m assuming a 777-200, if so would this be the first time SBN has seen a “Triple”?

jetskipper wrote:

freakyrat wrote:

Correction to my post The flight out of SBN went to RJSS Natori Japan Nonstop. This is the city that was devastated by an earthquake and tsunami in 2011

What aircraft was used? I’m assuming a 777-200, if so would this be the first time SBN has seen a “Triple”?

It was a 777-200 and yes this is the first time SBN has seen a Triple. SBN has seen other large charters with Delta A330's flying the ND Football team and band.

We had our military in Natori helping with cleanup and reconstruction after the 2011 earthquake and tsunami so I assume this was military charter.

If SBN builds an International Freight Hub flights with these aircraft could become quite common.

freakyrat wrote:

jetskipper wrote:

freakyrat wrote:

Correction to my post The flight out of SBN went to RJSS Natori Japan Nonstop. This is the city that was devastated by an earthquake and tsunami in 2011

What aircraft was used? I’m assuming a 777-200, if so would this be the first time SBN has seen a “Triple”?

It was a 777-200 and yes this is the first time SBN has seen a Triple. SBN has seen other large charters with Delta A330's flying the ND Football team and band.

We had our military in Natori helping with cleanup and reconstruction after the 2011 earthquake and tsunami so I assume this was military charter.

The flight originated at DFW and flew to Natori . Then actually made two roundtrips between SBN and Natori Japan returning to SBN each time via ANC. After the second nonstop flight from SBN-Natori the aircraft flew to IND via ANC and then returned to DFW.

UA is temporarily suspending SBN-EWR in February and March. The flight will resume April 1st. There is no explanation given but I suspect it is due to Newark Construction and Crew Shortages.

We’re anynother cities suspended? I always get a bit nervous when service is “temporarily” suspended.

freakyrat wrote:

UA is temporarily suspending SBN-EWR in February and March. The flight will resume April 1st. There is no explanation given but I suspect it is due to Newark Construction and Crew Shortages.

Or the flight isn't doing well? 1x/day on an E145 isn't going to cause much disturbance to construction in EWR. Probably part of the seasonal (or eventually permanent) reductions of the lowest yielding routes due to high fuel costs. Many carriers are cutting the low-yield RJ routes right now.

cvgComair wrote:

freakyrat wrote:

UA is temporarily suspending SBN-EWR in February and March. The flight will resume April 1st. There is no explanation given but I suspect it is due to Newark Construction and Crew Shortages.

Or the flight isn't doing well? 1x/day on an E145 isn't going to cause much disturbance to construction in EWR. Probably part of the seasonal (or eventually permanent) reductions of the lowest yielding routes due to high fuel costs. Many carriers are cutting the low-yield RJ routes right now.

UA is also realigning connections to run more through IAD. So there might be a slight chance this could return as an IAD flight, even if only temporary with reduced EWR space.

But Feb and Mar makes sense for suspension since these would be bad months for travel to the snowy midwest anyway. Don't want to risk getting your plane stuck if the route isn't making a boatload of profit.

Hope it returns, but E145s are expensive and if they aren't seeing the profit they need then it will be quickly cut I am sure.

I wouldn't read much into this folks. The flight actually is doing well, is profitable and is not a low yielding flight for UA. Breakeven LF for the flight is 70% or 35 passengers and SBN is exceeding that. Flight is doing well enough to where they operate 2x/E145's per day from Sept-Dec every year for the ND students and football season. I suspect this suspension is due to a crew shortage if anything. The second E145 flight had to be operated by Commutair rather than ExpressJet as it has been in the past. Commutair also has operated both daily flights for one month this year. The flight returns at it's normal time on April 1st. In reference to IAD, local United folks are also asking for a IAD flight to realign connectiions and to open up the EWR flight for more O/D traffic. For a wile now they have also been asking for 2 daily E175 flights to DEN to better facilitate West Coast connections over delay/cancellation prone ORD.

The problems they have had with these EWR flights have been with delays and cancellations of the evening return flight out of EWR. The morning flight is so important to UA that they will ferry an aircraft into SBN to operate it and have repeatedly when they have had problems with the return flight from EWR.

freakyrat wrote:

UA is temporarily suspending SBN-EWR in January, February and March. The flight will resume April 1st. There is no explanation given but I suspect it is due to Newark Construction and Crew Shortages.

Suspension begins in January and flight resumes April 1st.

Well with the upcoming Notre Dame Pittsburgh Football game this weekend and the demand for airline seats Delta did a late cancellation of the Atlanta to South Bend 9:45 AM Endeavor Air CRJ900 flight and without missing a beat quickly replaced it with a nonscheduled mainline B717-200 Delta 9856. Flight is now on arrival back in Atlanta.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL9856

Well Folks UA is dropping it's SBN-EWR flight as it is from other cities. They are trying to move all regional connecting flying to IAD no word yet on a replacement flight to IAD. Numerous passengers on this flight were using it for connections to BOS. The flight was also popular with Notre Dame students. Stay tuned folks we may see an AA flight to PHL sooner rather than later or the DL flight to JFK or LGA that has been ipart of an open RFP with the local DGS folks for the last 5 years.

Here is something official from the South Bend International Airport reference the United Newark flight.

"We will be retaining the EWR service seasonally each fall. We will be putting out more information on this soon."