I'm glad to see NK enter the DTW-SAN market nonstop because, like many routes out of Detroit, it has has been a one-carrier show for quite a long time. Hopefully we'll see some competitive pricing on this market segment once it becomes more established. I'm also curious to see if they [Delta] upgauges equipment to the B752 on the DTW-SAN run in the coming months. I was recently out in SAN and I must say that airport is awesome - so many 737s

https://youtu.be/XnV8FPRa5F0

KDTWflyer wrote:

I'm glad to see NK enter the DTW-SAN market nonstop because, like many routes out of Detroit, it has has been a one-carrier show for quite a long time. Hopefully we'll see some competitive pricing on this market segment once it becomes more established. I'm also curious to see if they [Delta] upgauges equipment to the B752 on the DTW-SAN run in the coming months.

Attractive pricing would be nice. The Spirit schedule is pretty nice too - morning inbound from DTW to SAN and a late morning e/b from SAN (~11:30 am departure.)

However, two aspects of the service that I've noticed and find ridiculous are frequency and 'seasonality'. I don't understand how the network planners at NK can realistically look at the numbers in the DTW-SAN market -- ~250PDEW for the last 3 quarters available, including winter -- along with what the competition offers on the route, and rationally decide the flight will start (in April) operating only 5x weekly, not even becoming daily until Memorial Day, then stop the route completely around Labor Day! (At least that's the way it appeared in the NK skeds last time I looked.)

Spirit's tried unsuccessfully with other routes from SAN, e.g., PDX, DEN, SJD, some involving seasonality, before being cut. The multi-carrier competition in all these markets certainly operate year-round and with multiple frequencies, so I would love to see NK get serious with DTW, and offer their customers consistency and adequate levels of service.

I will admit that the announcement and start-up of SAN-BWI said 'seasonal service' but it went permanent and year-round without ever being 'seasoned out'! I hope the same thing will happen with Detroit!

KDTWflyer wrote:

I was recently out in SAN and I must say that airport is awesome - so many 737s
https://youtu.be/XnV8FPRa5F0

Hey, K', thanks so much for sharing the video! Excellent and fun. You got a pretty good representation of cx and a/c. With one runway, all you have to do is keep the camera focused at the east end of 27 and you will miss nothing! And it's great that you got the Queen arriving and thank you for not snagging one of her tires as she appeared to pass about, what, 4 feet above you?! I'm still awestruck every time I see that big, gorgeous 747 landing at Lindbergh, and all she represents for our 660-acre airport!

One question for you: those 2 nb -- AS 737 and AA '57 -- that came from the north side of 27 for departure, why/how did they end up over there? Did they do the Lindy Hop due to traffic for some reason, or ? The HA 330 and the JL 787 I understand -- wide bodies apparently are still required to do the 'Hop -- but the other 2 must have either made mistakes or were detoured due to some issue... I wonder how frequently that happens?

You should try to make it out on March 25 to catch the inaugural landing of Lufthansa's 343 from FRA! Nice midday arrival with almost guaranteed beautiful weather for the occasion! I think there just might be a few A.netters there for the grand event!

bb

flymco753 wrote:

RE: the seasonality on SAN-DTW.

Ok, fly', thank you for that. However, I don't think it's that simple. How you are able to narrow down SAN-DTW's seasonality to 1 other specific route, TPA-DTW?

First, I figured out that the SAN-DTW r/t AND the PDX-DTW r/t will use a single A320, which will be flying a 24-hour day! It's impressive that NK can actually squeeze 2 west coast r/t from DTW in a 24-hour period using a single A320. I'm just glad PDX got the redeye rather than SAN! (Of course, NK's PDX-sked is very similar to AS's redeye so maybe that's what PDX-ers like?) So both NK routes, from PDX and SAN, have identical dates/frequencies/seasonality for the summer.

So how many DTW-TPA r/t this Fall can they squeeze out of that single a/c? All 4 that you mentioned?

In addition. there are at least 4 (count 'em, 4!) new summer-seasonal SEA routes -- DFW, ORD, FLL & MSP -- that also end on 9/5. True, none of those SEA routes involves DTW directly, but those 4 r/t must free up a minimum of 2, prolly more like 3, airplanes that could certainly serve DTW-TPA in the fall. And I'm sure there must be lots of other seasonal summer-only flights that will also end on ~Labor Day.

Just some thoughts that I think confuse your explanation of why SAN-DTW is seasonal. But maybe you're right. I still hope that like BWI, NK will extend SAN-DTW to year-round before we get anywhere near Labor Day!

bb

I thought I'd speculate regarding the next schedule extensions from AAG. I suspect we will see one effective May 20 in the next couple of weeks, possibly (hopefully) tonight/tomorrow. I believe there will be a separate one to be effective on June 3 which will prolly be the peak summer travel edition; it seems a bit odd that there are 2 separate ones so close together but that appears the way things are shaping up.

There have already been some postiive changes appearing in the online skeds, inc. daily service, at least for the summer, between SAN and Kona. (First time we've received daily service on this route; of course the flights to the other 3 islands will also be daily this summer.) All 3 FAT flights will be daily and all-jet - no more Q400s - along with MRY which will also become an EMJ route! STS is still a wildcard but I predict it will become another EMJ-route, and I'm hoping we might see double-daily service on the route! So unless AAG brings back a Q for MMH service this winter, we may be seeing the last of the turbo-props here...

Our 4th (seasonal) PDX flight is scheduled to be a 737 this summer, as are the other 3; last year, the 4th flight was an EMJ. Our new DAL route, just started last month, will become a daily-double route. Oh, and the 'new' AAG AirBi -- currently flown by VX -- will start appearing on various network routes such as 2x daily SAN-SEA.

With the addition of the 'new' AS flights to SFO effective April 25 (when the takeover/buyout is complete) AAG will be at ~45 known departures! I expect to see that number increase when these next 2 sked releases show up. I believe that at least one of our intra-CA routes will see additional service, and it should be a permanent increase!

These changes listed above (and any others that are unknown?) become effective either on May 20 or on June 3. Rhyme or reason unknown.

There won't be any new routes announced -- I don't think -- and unfortunately, we will be losing our Mexico City flight on May 20. (Permanently?) There could certainly be other surprises -- good or bad -- but I tend to be optimistic and would be shocked to see any more routes cut.

Anyone out there know of anything else that we could see for the summer? (PAE should be announced separately and I predict, not for a few more months. SAN is supposed to get at least 1 new flight in that market!)

bb

Any future international airline flying to SAN in the future?

SQ789 wrote:

Any future international airline flying to SAN in the future?

I hope so! Nothing new has been announced (except the single r/t by AF in late November, the subject of a thread.)

Since it's now March, I assume the summer lineup of intercontinental cx will be BA, JL, LH & WK. It's possible that we could see something new start later in the year.

And don't forget, the new FIS facilities in T2W will be opening sometime in June -- probably late in that month!

bb

flymco753 wrote:

It’s one of the few possibilities I have in mind, but the same could be said for several routes. I chose TPA because of its 4x A320 schedule. If NK is going to add an A321 onto TPA, the additional A320 would come from that route. Then again, maybe they want to take the A320 off LAX-DTW for the winter and do a year round A321, then adding the A320 in the summer. There’s a few routes I have in mind that could do an A321 to free an A320 to use on a year round SAN.

Like you said, it’s probably more complex then we think. I want to look deeper into it. Same with seasonal routes from other stations as well.

I can offer another possibility fly'. What if the SAN-DTW exceeds expectations this summer and NK just puts a new A321 on that route to keep it going all fall and winter! We'll see what happens.

In other news folks, in case anyone does care, it appears that the first LH flight to SAN will operate on March 22! That's a Thursday and the times are different than the schedule that kicks in on Sunday, March 25. (It appears that German DST kicks in on March 25):
>Thursday 03/22 LH467 Dep FRA: 9:55am.....Arr SAN 2:20pm
>Thursday 03/22 LH466 Dep SAN: 4:50pm.....Arr FRA 12:10pm +1 [the A343 will be on the ground here for 2.5 hours, allowing for ceremonies, 'training issues', etc.]

Also, for those who can't make the inaugural on Thursday -- there of course is no flight on Friday -- the Saturday sked will be a bit different:
>Saturday 03/24 LH467 Dep FRA 10:00am.....Arr SAN 2:25pm
>Saturday 03/24 LH466 Dep SAN 4:20pm......Arr FRA 12:40pm +1

Starting on Sunday, the Summer schedule will be:
>Sunday 03/25 LH467 Dep FRA 10:00am.....Arr SAN 1:20pm
>Sunday 03/25 LH466 Dep SAN 3:05pm.......Arr FRA 11:20am +1 [this appears to be THE summer schedule that will remain in effect most of the summer]

Reminder, LH will not operate, for now anyway, on Wed and Fri but WILL op year-round. Edelweiss begins service on 3/30 and will operate Mon and Fri until later this summer.

bb

Regarding SAN-DTW, it appears that Delta is increasing daily frequencies on the route, and SAN-MSP through November this fall. Enilria's Sunday thread shows the following changes year over year:
DL DTW-SAN SEP 1.9>3 OCT 1.9>3 NOV 1.8>3
DL MSP-SAN SEP 3>4 OCT 3>4 NOV 3>4

Regards,

Edward

lindy field wrote:

Regarding SAN-DTW, it appears that Delta is increasing daily frequencies on the route, and SAN-MSP through November this fall. Enilria's Sunday thread shows the following changes year over year:
DL DTW-SAN SEP 1.9>3 OCT 1.9>3 NOV 1.8>3
DL MSP-SAN SEP 3>4 OCT 3>4 NOV 3>4
Edward

I noticed that about DTW. I haven't gotten a chance to check DL's equipment assignments but I bet they'll be using something good-sized on those 3 nonstops. (And bts, the triple-daily to DTW and 4x/day in the MSP market are normal seasonal increases.)

I also notice that AA has changed their minds on 2 meaningful summer freq increases: both JFK and MIA will just see the normal # of flights this summer. It had been announced, and the skeds showed, JFK would go to 3x daily this summer and MIA to double-daily. Nope - it'll be 2x and once daily resp. Very disappointing AA...

AS did nothing this weekend about finalizing their summer skeds, but then they at least didn't xl anything from SAN so I guess that's nice.

bb

SANFan wrote:

I noticed that about DTW. I haven't gotten a chance to check DL's equipment assignments but I bet they'll be using something good-sized on those 3 nonstops. (And bts, the triple-daily to DTW and 4x/day in the MSP market are normal seasonal increases.)

The two traditional flights are A321s and the new flight (late afternoon departure, redeye return) is a B737-900ER.

timf wrote:

SANFan wrote:

I noticed that about DTW. I haven't gotten a chance to check DL's equipment assignments but I bet they'll be using something good-sized on those 3 nonstops. (And bts, the triple-daily to DTW and 4x/day in the MSP market are normal seasonal increases.)

The two traditional flights are A321s and the new flight (late afternoon departure, redeye return) is a B737-900ER.

Thanks for checking on that Tim'.

I actually had a chance to look at DL's 2017 summer sked for SAN-DTW and there were 4 daily flights, ALL of them 739s, with departures from SAN at 6:50a, 11:05a, 2:09p, and a redeye at 10:30p! (And SAN-MSP was 4x daily as well.) So this year, so far, it appears DTW has actually seen a reduction in service from DL... Looks like DL isn't all that bothered by the intrusion of NK in their market after all!

bb

From the SAN Twitter, Sun Country is serving SAN-SJD from June 29 to August 19.

In addition, the January meeting materials for the Capital Improvement Program Oversight Committee has some additional renderings of the FIS facilities and updates on construction. Link to materials: http://san.org/Airport-Authority/Meetings-Agendas?EntryId=10862. In just a little over three months the new FIS should be up and running! The "Paths Woven" slides in the Arts section of the same materials has a couple additional renderings of the art that will be in the greeting area for the FIS.

amadorE175 wrote:

From the SAN Twitter, Sun Country is serving SAN-SJD from June 29 to August 19.

SAN-SJD seems to be sort of saturated, theres AS,WN,and (does NK still serve SJD from SAN?)

I love those renderings! It's about time they posted pics. of what the parking plaza looks like! I'd heard that the
artwork inside the parking plaza was inspired by the many palm-lined streets all over town. The new FIS facility
is looking good! I can't wait to see what it looks like from the inside when it's complete! The outside doesn't look like
much, except that it looks like a glass box!

SANMAN66 wrote:

amadorE175 wrote:

From the SAN Twitter, Sun Country is serving SAN-SJD from June 29 to August 19.

SAN-SJD seems to be sort of saturated, theres AS,WN,and (does NK still serve SJD from SAN?)

I love those renderings! It's about time they posted pics. of what the parking plaza looks like! I'd heard that the
artwork inside the parking plaza was inspired by the many palm-lined streets all over town. The new FIS facility
is looking good! I can't wait to see what it looks like from the inside when it's complete! The outside doesn't look like
much, except that it looks like a glass box!

Looking at NK's route map, they no longer serve SJD from SAN. Looking at schedules for the June 29, it'll be:

2x AS, arriving at SAN @ 1125 and 1750

1x WN, arriving at SAN @ 1410

1x SY, arriving at SAN @ 1445

And, agreed, it's about time we get to see what all of the stuff they're building out there will look like!

amadorE175 wrote:

Looking at NK's route map, they no longer serve SJD from SAN.

NK probably was competing against Alaska on the route, until Southwest showed up.
I also remember just a couple of years ago, when DL was doing SAN-SJD on a seasonal basis.

amadorE175 wrote:

In addition, the January meeting materials for the Capital Improvement Program Oversight Committee has some additional renderings of the FIS facilities and updates on construction. Link to materials: http://san.org/Airport-Authority/Meetings-Agendas?EntryId=10862. In just a little over three months the new FIS should be up and running! The "Paths Woven" slides in the Arts section of the same materials has a couple additional renderings of the art that will be in the greeting area for the FIS.

Another interesting thing I found in that link is that the new parking structure will supposedly support mobile payment options (Apple Pay, etc.), FasTrak and some sort of "membership" thing. I wonder what the latter will entail and if it'll get much use.

tmiw wrote:

Another interesting thing I found in that link is that the new parking structure will supposedly support mobile payment options (Apple Pay, etc.), FasTrak and some sort of "membership" thing.

I wonder if they'll accept cash?

SANMAN66 wrote:

tmiw wrote:

Another interesting thing I found in that link is that the new parking structure will supposedly support mobile payment options (Apple Pay, etc.), FasTrak and some sort of "membership" thing.

I wonder if they'll accept cash?

The presentation explicitly said it would be "cashless", so probably not.

Interesting reveals at the March 1 SDCRAA Board Meeting. The webcast is available at this link for anyone wanting to see what I watched yesterday: http://stream1.sdcoe.net/wc/sdcraa030118/

I was most interested in the presentation by THE Hampton Brown on the agenda’s Item B which begins at about minute :24, and lasts for about :15 minutes. The topic is about CBP overtime payments and staffing, and involves the RSP program. There’s some good background provided by Hampton and discussions of the issues that SAN faces including arrivals of our int’l flights.

After watching Hampton’s report, and the subsequent question and answer period a couple of times, here are my takeaways:

It seems that 2-3 years ago, SAN was in serious talks with COPA for a flight to/from Latin America! The problem revolves around off-peak arrivals – arrivals outside the most popular arrival times for int’l flights at SAN during which the FIS facilities are adequately staffed. (BTW, Hampton was NOT the person who mentioned COPA by name!)

My impression is that perhaps COPA wanted to schedule a late arrival here, 4x a week, but due to CBP overtime prohibition, SAN said ‘No, we can’t support that arrival time.” (Remember, arrivals at SAN are permitted 24 hours a day but the FIS is open only until 10pm.) So we didn’t get the much-sought COPA service here, and the carrier, I believe, started new U.S. service elsewhere.

I also got the impression that there are other cx, and other int’l destinations, that are also affected by this issue.

Hampton reported that the new airport budget includes $350K, “enough to cover overtime to handle one –or more – off-peak int’l arrivals, 4 days per week”. (This would require SAN to get involved with the RSP program; we are currently the largest int’l arrival airport in CA – probably on the entire west coast -- that does not participate.)

We all know that Latin America became the main goal of the Route Development team at SDIA once JL started their n/s to Japan. I’ve frequently wondered what happened to that goal. I knew Hampton was working very hard on it, so why didn’t it happen? It seemed there must be some sort of issue…

One last question: I wonder, could this issue be instrumental in the MEX flight by AS getting cut? The flight arrives here at about 9:30pm; did they run into staffing shortfalls at that time at the FIS? (There was nothing mentioned about the MEX flight cancellation at the meeting.)

No timeframe was given but I get the feeling that on March 2, Hampton was on the phone with COPA (and/or LATAM, or ???) and hopefully, we will be seeing some new int’l air service here sooner or later as a result! After all, Hampton was one of the leading factors in SAN getting new FIS facilities, so now it looks like the SDCRAA board may be helping him get more users for SDIA's beautiful new facilities! I'm pretty stoked about all this!

bb

Lufthansa's Inaugural flight is tomorrow is anyone going?. According to Flightaware, she will be scheduled to land
at SAN at 1:32pm.

Just a quick reminder: our new Lufty flight number is #466

SANFan wrote:

My impression is that perhaps COPA wanted to schedule a late arrival here, 4x a week, but due to CBP overtime prohibition, SAN said ‘No, we can’t support that arrival time.” (Remember, arrivals at SAN are permitted 24 hours a day but the FIS is open only until 10pm.) So we didn’t get the much-sought COPA service here, and the carrier, I believe, started new U.S. service elsewhere.

I also got the impression that there are other cx, and other int’l destinations, that are also affected by this issue.

Hampton reported that the new airport budget includes $350K, “enough to cover overtime to handle one –or more – off-peak int’l arrivals, 4 days per week”. (This would require SAN to get involved with the RSP program; we are currently the largest int’l arrival airport in CA – probably on the entire west coast -- that does not participate.)

We all know that Latin America became the main goal of the Route Development team at SDIA once JL started their n/s to Japan. I’ve frequently wondered what happened to that goal. I knew Hampton was working very hard on it, so why didn’t it happen? It seemed there must be some sort of issue…

bb

Hmm, now I wonder about what other airlines would be affected by this. I wonder if LAX's arrivals schedule can give any hints.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/sd-fi-frankfurt-nonstop-20180321-story.html

In addition, the local paper has Hampton saying that Latin America and Asia are the focus of Authority efforts. Hampton also mentions our favorite speculative destinations, saying, "But the Philippines always pops up as a possible Asia flight and Korea too...We’re making progress. We’re within a year to a two-year time frame of having something.”

SANMAN66 wrote:

Lufthansa's Inaugural flight is tomorrow is anyone going?. According to Flightaware, she will be scheduled to land
at SAN at 1:32pm.

Can't wait to see some shots of LH flying in. I hope someone is able to snap a couple.

According to Flightaware, Lufthansa's arrival has been changed to 2:10pm (flight#466),
It will be departing back to Frankfurt at 5:00pm (flight#467)

Just in case anyone's interested, our Lufthansa flight#466 is out over the Atlantic,
scheduled to touchdown at SAN at 2:55pm.

SANMAN66 wrote:

Just in case anyone's interested, our Lufthansa flight#466 is out over the Atlantic,
scheduled to touchdown at SAN at 2:55pm.

...on approach now and landing shortly.
looking forward to great pictures!

I was there. I forgot my camera, but she made a perfect landing.

LH 467 currently taxiing for take off.

Some videos of the inaugural have been posted online. I was surprised to see that the aircraft used was in full LH livery. I had thought that this would be a "Jump" CityLine route or whatever LH call it, and they would only send the Star Alliance aircraft without LH titles, as is used for the SJC flights.

I think LH is pulling back on the Cityline/Jump stuff and flights are going back to mainline. SJC is going back mainline too.

The route was announced as being mainline A340 from the beginning, not Cityline A340 as SJC was.

AA890 and WN2178 are expected to arrive past 12am tonight per FlightAware. I'm curious as to what the status of the runway refurbishment is currently, as I thought there was a 12-5am hard closure through the end of the year.

Was looking ahead to book my May 2018 flights to Santa Rosa (STS) and noticed that effective May 20, the service is upguaged to an E175.

It's a 5:00pm departure, which means still an overnight stay to do business, but such a HUGE improvement over the good 'ol Q400. I haven't been on a flight at less than 95% capacity in at least a year, and I won't miss those 17" seats one bit. New flight number SAN-STS is 3343. Return flight leaves STS @ 7:30pm and is #3444.

With United apparently shifting at least some of their SFO service (which I often use to connect from SAN) from STS to Denver, this is a pretty big deal for flyers like me. I think this means the last Q400 service out of SAN is to Mammoth, and I doubt that flies over the summer.

Very happy with this and not to be greedy, but let's hope this goes to 2/x day soon!

amadorE175 wrote:

Hampton also mentions our favorite speculative destinations, saying, "But the Philippines always pops up as a possible Asia flight and Korea too...We’re making progress. We’re within a year to a two-year time frame of having something.”

Hope springs eternal. Should the SDCRAA dangle a similar incentive such as this..... .....

"As part of the agreement to induce Lufthansa to introduce the Frankfurt nonstop, the San Diego airport agreed to spend $750,000 over two years on marketing the new flight, plus waive landing fees of roughly $500,000 the first year and $250,000 the second. Rebates for terminal space rental are also being offered, said Hampton Brown, director of air service planning."

.....maybe PR would try it with their A340 first (if a couple remains) once they see viable traffic from SAN to MNL through LAX and vice versa.



https://www.flightglobal.com/assets/get ... emid=73135

Who knows, PR might even deem ordering the A338 as a worthwhile CAPEX going forward if enough routes present themselves as sustainable new destinations for the airline..... .....




http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=MNL-YVR-IA ... =wls&DU=nm


I bet SANfan would like that map!

Devilfish wrote:

amadorE175 wrote:

Hampton also mentions our favorite speculative destinations, saying, "But the Philippines always pops up as a possible Asia flight and Korea too...We’re making progress. We’re within a year to a two-year time frame of having something.”

Hope springs eternal. Should the SDCRAA dangle a similar incentive such as this..... .....

"As part of the agreement to induce Lufthansa to introduce the Frankfurt nonstop, the San Diego airport agreed to spend $750,000 over two years on marketing the new flight, plus waive landing fees of roughly $500,000 the first year and $250,000 the second. Rebates for terminal space rental are also being offered, said Hampton Brown, director of air service planning."

.....maybe PR would try it with their A340 first (if a couple remains) once they see viable traffic from SAN to MNL through LAX and vice versa.

https://www.flightglobal.com/assets/get ... emid=73135

Who knows, PR might even deem ordering the A338 as a worthwhile CAPEX going forward if enough routes present themselves as sustainable new destinations for the airline..... .....




http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=MNL-YVR-IA ... =wls&DU=nm


I bet SANfan would like that map!

You're right, Devil' that's a beautiful sight! (I also notice that you're not proposing nonstop service to the middle of the Arizona desert at this time!)

Those incentives listed as going to LH are, afaik, the usual incentive package for new int'l service at SDIA. I assume it would be available for PAL!

Thanks for the post here, Devil'. Appreciate your keeping in touch with any updates!

bb

Does anyone know who is handling the ground services for Lufthansa? Is it United? The check-in counter is clear down at T2W, definitely a bit of a hike to get to 20, 21 and 22. I guess now thinking about it, the new FIS facilities are supposed to open in the summer so perhaps this could just prevent a move once the new facilities are open and they are using those gates?

hawaiian717 wrote:

The route was announced as being mainline A340 from the beginning, not Cityline A340 as SJC was.

The end of the CL experiment was determined around the same time SAN was announced. All of the A340 flights are returning to mainline, AFAIK.

LH looks good in SAN

SANFan wrote:

Thanks for the post here, Devil'. Appreciate your keeping in touch with any updates!

You're welcome. I hope this would likewise please.....

http://philippineairspace.blogspot.com/ ... loser.html

Devilfish wrote:

SANFan wrote:

Thanks for the post here, Devil'. Appreciate your keeping in touch with any updates!

You're welcome. I hope this would likewise please.....

http://philippineairspace.blogspot.com/ ... loser.html

Absolutely! At this point in time, it's just very nice to see that SAN is being talked about regarding PAL. With the new FIS facilities at Lindbergh opening in about 3 months, there will certainly be plenty of room for another foreign flag to regularly call here!

BTW, SAN's Int'l (Trans-Ocean) Incentive program can be found at SAN.org via this link:
http://www.san.org/DesktopModules/Bring ... &TabId=215

Sure looks to me like PAL service to the Philippines -- nonstop, direct, or even 'triangle' service -- would easily qualify for the incentive package!

bb

SANFan wrote:

Sure looks to me like PAL service to the Philippines -- nonstop, direct, or even 'triangle' service -- would easily qualify for the incentive package!

I still think a SAN tag-on to YVR (after YYZ and JFK have been dropped) has the best chance of pushing through quickly, vice a nonstop or triangle service.

mikeyp224 wrote:

Does anyone know who is handling the ground services for Lufthansa? Is it United? The check-in counter is clear down at T2W, definitely a bit of a hike to get to 20, 21 and 22. I guess now thinking about it, the new FIS facilities are supposed to open in the summer so perhaps this could just prevent a move once the new facilities are open and they are using those gates?

Correct. Both LH's and WK's check-in counters are now in the T2W-west ticket lobby - at the future location of the new FIS. I expect BA and JL will join them in a few months but I have no idea what the overall airline relocation plan is and how things will look this fall. I do expect there will be LOTS more moves ahead!

Devilfish wrote:

SANFan wrote:

Sure looks to me like PAL service to the Philippines -- nonstop, direct, or even 'triangle' service -- would easily qualify for the incentive package!

I still think a SAN tag-on to YVR (after YYZ and JFK have been dropped) has the best chance of pushing through quickly, vice a nonstop or triangle service.

No question this would be the easiest and quickest way for PR to get to SAN. (And I continue to wonder if the route application to the DOT back in early 2008 is still valid. If it is, then PR wouldn't even have to apply again for rights to fly MNL-YVR-SAN!)

Fingers crossed...

bb

Anyone know why there was a 24-hour delay with yesterday's LH467 back to FRA?

SANFan wrote:

And don't forget, the new FIS facilities in T2W will be opening sometime in June -- probably late in that month!

bb

Here's a couple of little nuggets for you Bob, Hampton Brown had said the new FIS facilities are
scheduled to open on June 30, and he also said that Speedbird wanted to keep the 744 here year
round, but the current setup prevents them from having scheduling flexibility, the new FIS facility is the key
to getting more int'l flights, and Speedbird flying the 744 here year-round! When the "Queen of the skies"
returns in October, it's a very distinct possibility she will stay.

SANMAN66 wrote:

Here's a couple of little nuggets for you Bob, Hampton Brown had said the new FIS facilities are scheduled to open on June 30, and he also said that Speedbird wanted to keep the 744 here year round, but the current setup prevents them from having scheduling flexibility, the new FIS facility is the key to getting more int'l flights, and Speedbird flying the 744 here year-round! When the "Queen of the skies" returns in October, it's a very distinct possibility she will stay.

Wow! Interesting info. Thanx L for reporting this.

Seems to me I remember hearing somewhere along the way that BA had expressed interest in changing their skeds at SAN, possibly for earlier arrivals at Lindbergh. I don't remember if it was tied in with possible equipment changes but with what you report Hampton saying, maybe that's the key. (And there's the issue with o/t pay for the CBP officers in order for later arrivals to happen at SDIA!)

Yes, I would be very happy if SAN should again see the "Queen" flying here regularly, and year-round! Hard to believe that it's taken years (decades actually) but our goofy little airport really seems on the verge of playing with the big boys!

Go Hampton!!!!!

bb

SANFan wrote:

Seems to me I remember hearing somewhere along the way that BA had expressed interest in changing their skeds at SAN, possibly for earlier arrivals at Lindbergh. I don't remember if it was tied in with possible equipment changes but with what you report Hampton saying, maybe that's the key. (And there's the issue with o/t pay for the CBP officers in order for later arrivals to happen at SDIA!)

Yes, I would be very happy if SAN should again see the "Queen" flying here regularly, and year-round! Hard to believe that it's taken years (decades actually) but our goofy little airport really seems on the verge of playing with the big boys!

I wonder if they'll keep the existing gates (22.23.24) int'l for the Mexican flights after the new FIS gates open?
It would seem like a big mess to have WN and AS 737s from Mexico mixed in with the widebodies at the FIS
gates? Can you imagine being on a flight that just arrived from NRT,LHR, or FRA waiting for gates occupied
by a WN or AS plane that's been delayed? I'm hoping to see COPA here right after the FIS facilitiies open, it
seems as if SDIA already resolved the CBP problem, so hopefully we'll see COPA sooner instead of later,not
to mention recent rumblings about PR finally starting service here.
I never thought I'd see Lindbergh Field "Running with the big dogs!"

SANMAN66 wrote:

SANFan wrote:

Seems to me I remember hearing somewhere along the way that BA had expressed interest in changing their skeds at SAN, possibly for earlier arrivals at Lindbergh. I don't remember if it was tied in with possible equipment changes but with what you report Hampton saying, maybe that's the key. (And there's the issue with o/t pay for the CBP officers in order for later arrivals to happen at SDIA!)

Yes, I would be very happy if SAN should again see the "Queen" flying here regularly, and year-round! Hard to believe that it's taken years (decades actually) but our goofy little airport really seems on the verge of playing with the big boys!

I wonder if they'll keep the existing gates (22.23.24) int'l for the Mexican flights after the new FIS gates open?
It would seem like a big mess to have WN and AS 737s from Mexico mixed in with the widebodies at the FIS
gates? Can you imagine being on a flight that just arrived from NRT,LHR, or FRA waiting for gates occupied
by a WN or AS plane that's been delayed? I'm hoping to see COPA here right after the FIS facilitiies open, it
seems as if SDIA already resolved the CBP problem, so hopefully we'll see COPA sooner instead of later,not
to mention recent rumblings about PR finally starting service here.
I never thought I'd see Lindbergh Field "Running with the big dogs!"

The current international gates are actually 20, 21 and 22.

SANMAN66 wrote:

SANFan wrote:

Seems to me I remember hearing somewhere along the way that BA had expressed interest in changing their skeds at SAN, possibly for earlier arrivals at Lindbergh. I don't remember if it was tied in with possible equipment changes but with what you report Hampton saying, maybe that's the key. (And there's the issue with o/t pay for the CBP officers in order for later arrivals to happen at SDIA!)

Yes, I would be very happy if SAN should again see the "Queen" flying here regularly, and year-round! Hard to believe that it's taken years (decades actually) but our goofy little airport really seems on the verge of playing with the big boys!

I wonder if they'll keep the existing gates (22.23.24) int'l for the Mexican flights after the new FIS gates open?
It would seem like a big mess to have WN and AS 737s from Mexico mixed in with the widebodies at the FIS
gates? Can you imagine being on a flight that just arrived from NRT,LHR, or FRA waiting for gates occupied
by a WN or AS plane that's been delayed? I'm hoping to see COPA here right after the FIS facilitiies open, it
seems as if SDIA already resolved the CBP problem, so hopefully we'll see COPA sooner instead of later,not
to mention recent rumblings about PR finally starting service here.
I never thought I'd see Lindbergh Field "Running with the big dogs!"

There shouldn't be too much problem with waiting. Once it's done, there will be six FIS-connected gates and three of them can handle widebody aircraft (and it could actually be four based on the airport terminal diagrams). If it does too crowded, I suppose the airport could also tow the narrowbodies out to different gates for their departures once the passengers have been offloaded.

And current FIS gates 20-22 are going to AS, if memory serves correctly. They're getting some renovations after the FIS move.

amadorE175 wrote:

There shouldn't be too much problem with waiting. Once it's done, there will be six FIS-connected gates and three of them can handle widebody aircraft (and it could actually be four based on the airport terminal diagrams). If it does too crowded, I suppose the airport could also tow the narrowbodies out to different gates for their departures once the passengers have been offloaded.

And current FIS gates 20-22 are going to AS, if memory serves correctly. They're getting some renovations after the FIS move.

Yes, I believe when the FIS project is totally done -- summer 2019 -- they could get 4 wide bodies into the 6 gates, but no room for anything else. But the 4 w/b wouldn't all be there for hours and hours so I don't foresee huge issues. And yes, after deplaning arriving int'l pax, a/c could be towed to other gates for boarding and departure.

Also, I think there are/will be remote parking options (and buses) just in case Hampton goes crazy and we get LOTS of additional cx and trans-ocean flights at SAN! (One can only hope!)

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