With the new year it's time for a new thread to continue our discussions from the 2016-2017 thread (here: https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1336279)

I was checking the WK timetables and their flights are scheduled to leave SAN around 1850 and 1910 from June to November. Several of their flights in April and May, however, are scheduled to leave SAN quite late at 2325, right on the curfew. Seems to be cutting it very close!

Among this years highlights and points of interest:

-Will the AS-VX split operation between T1W and T2E be a problem for passengers?

-Will we see more AS expansion?

-How many Hawaii destinations will WN serve from SAN (should WN actually start Hawaii in 2018)?

-LH starting 5x weekly service to FRA

-Opening of the new FIS during summer 2018

-Will PR make concrete moves to serve SAN either nonstop or as a tag?

-Might we find new service to Latin America?

This is just off the top of my head so there's much more, of course. Just wanted to get the ball rolling.

The new parking plaza in front of T-2W, will be open this summer also. I found a
picture of it taken from the air, it's pretty big.

I’m still praying for a SkyTeam Intl carrier...

KLM...KE...AF...China?

Nice recap of what to follow at SAN this year, Amador'.

I just thought I'd add a couple of things that interest me anyway:

> For 2018. 9 new routes have already been announced -- the first starts tomorrow: WN nonstop to TPA! (The last of what we already know about is HA to OGG in May.) The new routes are TPA, DAL (AS), PVR (WN), ELP (WN), FRA (LH), TUL (F9), DTW (NK), OKC (F9), & OGG! There will, I'm sure, be more new routes announced.

> There will also be many nice frequency/capacity increases in 1H18 such as Blue's 2nd nonstop to BOS, WN's 3rd AUS flight along with a 4th DAL trip, DL's 4th nonstop to JFK, AC's 3rd YVR flight, AA's 2nd MIA trip returns for the season, and they go triple-daily to JFK, and AAG goes daily to KOA in May & doubles up on DAL in June! That's lots of impressive capacity growth for the first 6 months of the year! And I'm sure there will be more...

> The total 2017 pax traffic at Lindbergh (thru November) is already at 20.3M; my guess is when December numbers are added, we'll reach solidly over 22 million! Not bad for a 663-acre mini-airport located 3 miles from downtown where's-that-again!!!

> Lastly, we're going to see a majority of the airlines at SDIA relocate this year. The trend started with VX moving to T2E last month. By September, I bet we're all going to need a map to figure out where everyone lives!

Happy New Year all! Let's keep this thread nice and active throughout 2018!

bb

Also posted this in the Greater China Thread:

Hainan Airlines has held a press conference for the new service connecting Beijing to Mexico City via. Tijuana. The thrice-weekly services will be launched March 21 with the Boeing 787. The CBX facility at TIJ was specifically mentioned; Hainan Airlines will be tackling the San Diego market with this route as well.

The schedule is as follows:
HU7925 1-3-5-- PEK 1830 - TIJ 1555 TIJ 1755 - MEX 2200
HU7926 -2-4-6- MEX 0000 - TIJ 0215 TIJ 0415 - PEK 0835+1

I saw on a youtube video, taken around November of last year where the BA 744 took
off on RWY-9 due to fog in the area. I didn't know a 747 could do a RWY-9 takeoff
due to the terrain? I guess it's another myth busted! I thought the BA 744 had to wait
until the fog cleared, or the wind changed so it could takeoff on RWY-27,if it meant delays.

kaichinshih wrote:

Hainan Airlines has held a press conference for the new service connecting Beijing to Mexico City via. Tijuana. The thrice-weekly services will be launched March 21 with the Boeing 787. The CBX facility at TIJ was specifically mentioned; Hainan Airlines will be tackling the San Diego market with this route as well.

I'm still skeptical about this flight out of TIJ, since Aeromexico downgraded the TIJ-PVG to just a refuelling stop, what makes Hainan
think they would succeed doing the same thing? No huge crowds using the bridge (CBX), for the TIJ-PVG flight, the San Diego crowd
will still go to LAX for flights to PVG and Beijing, but I can see the reasoning behind Hainan choosing TIJ over SAN. Most likely because
the Chinese govt. put a halt on new flights between the U.S. and China, and TIJ is the closest to SAN.

WN still has opportunities to further expand from SAN to destinations within the contiguous U.S. that it does not currently serve nonstop from SAN.

Destinations that WN could add nonstop service to from SAN include BOS, CVG, CLE, CMH, FLL, MSP, OKC, OMA, PHL, PIT, RDU, and IAD.

jplatts wrote:

WN still has opportunities to further expand from SAN to destinations within the contiguous U.S. that it does not currently serve nonstop from SAN.

Destinations that WN could add nonstop service to from SAN include BOS, CVG, CLE, CMH, FLL, MSP, OKC, OMA, PHL, PIT, RDU, and IAD.

On the domestic side of things, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a SAN-RDU flight, either by WN, or AS.

Unfortunate that Hainan or another Asian Carrier hasn't been announced yet. The FIs will be complete relatively soon and will be in commission with state of the art facilities. That should've attracted some airlines I would think.

Minor work has been in full speed around gate 48 and gate 50. Looks like Gate 48 will be re striped to allow longer aircraft's into the gate. Im guessing A340-600 for LH encase of a unexpected Sub and A35J parking. I'm not too sure with gate 50 at this time.

The numbers are finally in for 2017 for traffic at SAN. IMO, they are Very impressive.

Total pax for 2017: 22,173,493, up 7.0% over 2016! WOW -- that's almost 1.5M more pax than last year!
Int'l pax (TL) in 2017: 874,321, up 14.2% y-o-y! That's quickly heading toward a million int'l pax in a year!

Pax arriving at FIS facilities at SAN: 303,352, 9.1% more than 2016! (Our beautiful new FIS facilities can't open soon enough!)
Aircraft operations arriving at FIS in 2017: 1968, up 9.0%.

WN total pax in 2017: 8,345,380, up 6.7% for a 37.6% market share of total SAN traffic! They aren't letting up a bit!

Although AS traffic alone is not available, pax thru T1W -- which includes F9 as well: 2,821,694, which is up 23.2%! Certainly a lot of that traffic growth is due to AS.
T1W pax traffic now accounts for 12.7% of SAN's total!
Looks to me like the 19 gates at Terminal 1 now handle 50% of the TOTAL pax traffic at SDIA!

Well I guess we aren't going to see Hainan at SAN anytime soon. If they are expecting their TIJ service to draw lots of China-bound travelers from North of the border, I think they will be disappointed. IMHO, if an airline wants to tap into the San Diego market, they will simply need to fly in and out of SDIA.

As pointed out, Hainan might not be able to fly to SAN but I certainly don't believe flying to TIJ is the same thing. TIJ could very well be large enough to support the Hainan service but we'll see.

bb

SANFan wrote:

Well I guess we aren't going to see Hainan at SAN anytime soon. If they are expecting their TIJ service to draw lots of China-bound travelers from North of the border, I think they will be disappointed. IMHO, if an airline wants to tap into the San Diego market, they will simply need to fly in and out of SDIA.
bb

They should have been watching Aeromexico to see if they were having success on the Asian flights via TIJ.

They downgraded the TIJ-NRT flight and eventually made it nonstop from MEX (Westbound/Eastbound).
The AM flight to ICN uses MTY as a refuelling stop.
The AM flight to PVG was downgraded to Westbound only, and nonstop back to MEX. Even the the PVG
plane was downgraded from a 777 to a 787. (I don't think Hainan did their homework!)

I'm betting that Hainan switches over to SAN once the Chinese govt. opens up China again.

redrooster3 wrote:

Looks like Gate 48 will be re striped to allow longer aircraft's into the gate. Im guessing A340-600 for LH encase of a unexpected Sub and A35J parking. I'm not too sure with gate 50 at this time.

I'm hoping we see more 787s (788s or 789s in the mix). Also, did anyone hear about WOW air subbing an A321NEO on the LAX-KEF run?
If they have that kind of range,maybe they could send one down here to SAN. it would be the right sized aircraft!

SANFan wrote:

Well I guess we aren't going to see Hainan at SAN anytime soon. If they are expecting their TIJ service to draw lots of China-bound travelers from North of the border, I think they will be disappointed. IMHO, if an airline wants to tap into the San Diego market, they will simply need to fly in and out of SDIA.

As pointed out, Hainan might not be able to fly to SAN but I certainly don't believe flying to TIJ is the same thing. TIJ could very well be large enough to support the Hainan service but we'll see.

I'm not so sure about that. I've done the CBX thing twice already and it was a breeze both times. Personally, this Hainan flight to PEK sounds awfully tempting to me and I hope to give it a try. The only downside to this (as a US citizen in San Diego) is that I'd have to clear both Mexican and US passport control on the way back - but, even that isn't a big issue since getting back into the US via the CBX is very fast. No waiting at all, at least when I've done it.

SANMAN66 wrote:

redrooster3 wrote:

Looks like Gate 48 will be re striped to allow longer aircraft's into the gate. Im guessing A340-600 for LH encase of a unexpected Sub and A35J parking. I'm not too sure with gate 50 at this time.

I'm hoping we see more 787s (788s or 789s in the mix). Also, did anyone hear about WOW air subbing an A321NEO on the LAX-KEF run?
If they have that kind of range,maybe they could send one down here to SAN. it would be the right sized aircraft!

LAX was pushing the A321N's range, I feel a A321LR is the desired plane. And yes we have gates for all three Variant 787s

As I was reading thru the TIJ-China thread just now, something occurred to me and I posted my thoughts there. Here is what I posted:

Just thinking out loud here but to San Diegans considering using this new HU TIJ-PEK service, especially those who are SAN av enthusiasts -- and you know who you are! -- I would think the success of TIJ-Asia flights might just diminish the chances of our seeing nonstops from SDIA.

Seems to me that if lots and lots of San Diegans use the HU flights from TIJ, what is the incentive for HU, or anyone else, possibly including other Asian cx such as KE, to start service out of SAN? For whatever reason unknown to us, a whole bunch of int'l flags might just begin serving Rodriguez Airport rather than Lindbergh Field. I can see things really heading downhill at SDIA, particularly regarding our very nicely expanding selection of intercontinental destinations.

Perhaps something to think about...

bb

What do others here think? Is this a valid concern or is my thinking just a big nothing-burger?

As I wondered about earlier in this or some other thread, perhaps the HU service from TIJ will do just fine on its own, supported by Mexican citizens. But HU will certainly know how many of the boardings at Rodriguez are by U.S. citizens from the San Diego catchment area so I can't help but think it could affect HU's (and others') thinking about flying into Lindbergh.

I can't even imagine how upsetting it would be to hear that KE decided to start TIJ-SEL service in a couple of years... (And I'm sure Hampton and his team at SDIA's Route Development department would feel the same!)

bb

SANFan wrote:

As I was reading thru the TIJ-China thread just now, something occurred to me and I posted my thoughts there. Here is what I posted:

Just thinking out loud here but to San Diegans considering using this new HU TIJ-PEK service, especially those who are SAN av enthusiasts -- and you know who you are! -- I would think the success of TIJ-Asia flights might just diminish the chances of our seeing nonstops from SDIA.

Seems to me that if lots and lots of San Diegans use the HU flights from TIJ, what is the incentive for HU, or anyone else, possibly including other Asian cx such as KE, to start service out of SAN? For whatever reason unknown to us, a whole bunch of int'l flags might just begin serving Rodriguez Airport rather than Lindbergh Field. I can see things really heading downhill at SDIA, particularly regarding our very nicely expanding selection of intercontinental destinations.

Perhaps something to think about...

bb

What do others here think? Is this a valid concern or is my thinking just a big nothing-burger?

As I wondered about earlier in this or some other thread, perhaps the HU service from TIJ will do just fine on its own, supported by Mexican citizens. But HU will certainly know how many of the boardings at Rodriguez are by U.S. citizens from the San Diego catchment area so I can't help but think it could affect HU's (and others') thinking about flying into Lindbergh.

I can't even imagine how upsetting it would be to hear that KE decided to start TIJ-SEL service in a couple of years... (And I'm sure Hampton and his team at SDIA's Route Development department would feel the same!)

bb

KE will do really well in TIJ. AM's LF to MEX is apparently doing really amazing..

Seems to me that if lots and lots of San Diegans use the HU flights from TIJ, what is the incentive for HU, or anyone else, possibly including other Asian cx such as KE, to start service out of SAN?

Kind of the same way a lot of us in Portland feel about SEA.

I've been thinking about the int'l flights between TIJ and SAN. TIJ is listed in Wikipedia as
serving both Tijuana and San Diego (I guess the CBX made that possible), TIJ is technically
SAN/TIJ. and there is room for two int'l airports in the region, similar to SJC and OAK is to SFO.
All three have plenty of TPAC/TATL flights between them and they don't seem to be competing
against each other. TIJ may just capture the Asian part of the region, while SAN takes care of the
European part. We'll see if Hainan succeeds with TIJ. In another scenario I've been thinking,
maybe Hainan is serving TIJ only because the govt. of China has halted all new flights from China to
the U.S. and TIJ is just a placeholder until the govt. of China opens up new flights to the U.S. and
Hainan would simply switch over to SAN? (I think too much!)

jbpdx wrote:

SANFan wrote:

Seems to me that if lots and lots of San Diegans use the HU flights from TIJ, what is the incentive for HU, or anyone else, possibly including other Asian cx such as KE, to start service out of SAN?

Kind of the same way a lot of us in Portland feel about SEA.

Well, we already have LA (even closer to SAN than SEA is to PDX) as the longtime competition to SAN getting intercontinental nonstops. But I would hate to see TIJ become another serious competitor for SAN's int'l travel. But of course TIJ, much closer to SAN than LAX is, does require the crossing of a U.S. international border and the CBX notwithstanding, that does make int'l travel via TIJ a bit more complicated.

Yahnih wrote:

KE will do really well in TIJ. AM's LF to MEX is apparently doing really amazing..

Hmmmm. For many months, Yahnih, you've been posting on the SAN-threads how much you'd love to see KE fly to and from SAN. So are you now saying that you would be just as happy to have them fly in and out of TIJ instead? Just curious.

bb

Let me start off by saying I am the biggest San Diego booster there is. I would have been ecstatic if the HU flight had been given to Lindberg but I feel though that any international flights to our combined metropolitan area, SAN/TIJ, is a boost for the local economy. Therefore this new international flight is not a bad thing. I have flown out of TIJ using the CBX going to Managua and back and it was much easier than shlepping myself up to LA, and much cheaper than flying out of SD and connecting in Dallas or Miami. So although this isn't the best scenario possible imo it is a good one for the region.

So this is fun, here is an updated list of all international nonstop flights from the SD/TIJ metropolitan area:

Toronto
Calgary
Vancouver
Mexico City
Guadalajara
Cabo San Lucas
London
Frankfurt (3-18)
Tokyo
Shanghai
Beijing (3-18)
Guatemala City
Managua
San Salvador
Zurich

That is a pretty decent list I feel.

gollumSD wrote:

Let me start off by saying I am the biggest San Diego booster there is.

I might challenge that statement, gollum', but it's Super Bowl weekend so that's enough fighting!

gollumSD wrote:

So this is fun, here is an updated list of all international nonstop flights from the SD/TIJ metropolitan area:

Toronto Calgary Vancouver
Mexico City Guadalajara Cabo San Lucas
London
Frankfurt (3-18)
Tokyo
Shanghai Beijing (3-18)
Guatemala City
Managua
San Salvador
Zurich

That is a pretty decent list I feel.

Slight correction: GDL needs to be replaced with PVR.

It will be interesting to see if SAN -- and I mean Lindbergh Field -- ever sees Latin American service of its own. I take away from other posts that most folks seem to be fine with Latin America and China being adequately served from the San Diego area. I don't think I'll ever agree totally with that pov, but I will accept that my concerns are a deluxe nothing burger with cheese!

And I remain consoled by the fact that apparently no more flights between China and the U.S. are permitted due to Chinese aviation regs. As long as that remains in force, then I am certainly fine with HU flying to TIJ (and MEX) and it is in fact a clever way for HU to serve So Cal. And to those San Diegans who don't mind the requirement of slipping into Mexico to get to China, go for it! It certainly is better than nothing, and perhaps better than LAX!

I do wonder if any additional Chinese airlines might follow HU's example?

bb

SANFan wrote:

gollumSD wrote:

Let me start off by saying I am the biggest San Diego booster there is.

I might challenge that statement, gollum', but it's Super Bowl weekend so that's enough fighting!

bb

I think I might challenge that statement too! I'd much rather do spotting at Lindbergh Field than watch the Super Bowl!
A 744 or 787 taking off from SAN is much more impressive to me than watching a football game! (Sorry I'm still angry
at the Chargers! )

SANFan wrote:

I remain consoled by the fact that apparently no more flights between China and the U.S. are permitted due to Chinese aviation regs. As long as that remains in force, then I am certainly fine with HU flying to TIJ (and MEX) and it is in fact a clever way for HU to serve So Cal. And to those San Diegans who don't mind the requirement of slipping into Mexico to get to China, go for it! It certainly is better than nothing, and perhaps better than LAX!

bb

That's similar to what I was saying earlier, SAN/TIJ could still complement each other and both have int'l flights between them and
not step on each other's toes. TIJ could handle the Asian sector, and SAN handling the European sector. It looks like both airports
win during the month of March. SAN gets Lufthansa, while TIJ gets Hainan. I'm still jazzed!

Another thing, some of us felt that since HU announced TIJ, that eliminated our chances
of landing HU at SAN in the future, maybe not, when the govt. of China opens up new flights
to the U.S., HU could still expand to SAN, while serving TIJ, BA serves SJC, OAK, and SFO,
why not?

Looking at the timing of the westbound flight, this flight is all about MEX traffic. The TIJ stop feels like a technical necessity and any Tijuana/San Diego based traffic is a bonus:

HU7926 MEX2330 – 0045+1TIJ0345+1 – 0805+2PEK 787 135

The flight leaves Tijuana at 3:45am. The flight will pull passengers because it’s nonstop and Chinese airlines tend to offer low fares, plus an 8:05am arrival should allow plenty of onward connections in Beijing, but that departure time will surely be a turnoff.

As far as moving the stopover point from TIJ to SAN, I see a couple of major problems. The first is that the current schedule simply isn’t allowed since the departure occurs in the middle of the curfew. So the flight has to get pushed back another 3 hours, either at MEX (making it a 2:30am departure from MEX instead of 11:30pm), or the plane would have to sit at SAN for 6 hours in the middle of the night, making it a long, miserable stopover for MEX-originating passengers. I would suspect a significant rescheduling of this flight would be needed to move it from TIJ to SAN.

Second, neither Mexico nor China are part of the US Visa Waiver Program. Would the US allow through passengers on this flight without a US visa, which would normally be required for them to transit the US? Is USCIS and CBP prepared to staff the new FIS for a 12:45am arrival, assuming HU would have local traffic rights for the MEX-SAN sector? Sure, they probably don’t for MEX-TIJ, but I feel like that would be more desirable for making this flight work if you’re going to move the stop from Mexico to the US.

I don’t think this flight hasn’t much impact on the future of SAN-Asia flights. I feel like if they do see a lot of San Diego originating/bound traffic on this flight, it only bolsters the case for serving Lindbergh Field with a more reasonably timed flight that doesn’t require the extra step of entering Mexico.

T2W FIs project expected to be in service by July 1st, 2018. Suppose to be complete in June 2018. Japan, British, and Westjet will all move to T2W utilizing the new FIs

hawaiian717 wrote:

HU7926 MEX2330 – 0045+1TIJ0345+1 – 0805+2PEK 787 135

Ouch - I didn't notice the 3:45am departure time out of TIJ. That alone will make this a lot less appealing to me (and I suspect many others).

Scooter wrote:

hawaiian717 wrote:

HU7926 MEX2330 – 0045+1TIJ0345+1 – 0805+2PEK 787 135

Ouch - I didn't notice the 3:45am departure time out of TIJ. That alone will make this a lot less appealing to me (and I suspect many others).

I suspect that the reason that the TIJ-NRT flight went away is because of departure times (2am?), and JAL starting up
SAN with more appealing early afternoon departures.

redrooster3 wrote:

T2W FIs project expected to be in service by July 1st, 2018. Suppose to be complete in June 2018. Japan, British, and Westjet will all move to T2W utilizing the new FIs

Wouldn't that also include Edelweiss, Lufthansa,and Air Canada moving to T2W also? Or will the Old FIs stay in operation
too?

SANMAN66 wrote:

redrooster3 wrote:

T2W FIs project expected to be in service by July 1st, 2018. Suppose to be complete in June 2018. Japan, British, and Westjet will all move to T2W utilizing the new FIs

Wouldn't that also include Edelweiss, Lufthansa,and Air Canada moving to T2W also? Or will the Old FIs stay in operation
too?

And, will the AS move to T2E also happen at that time? That of course would empty out most of T1W, allowing, for example, NK and B6, etc., to move there, joining F9, and opening up space in T2W for the int'l flags to relocate there? Phew! What do you say red', that sound about right?

Seems to me that about everybody besides UA, DL, and WN will be moving around this summer! Get the maps ready!

bb

Yahnih wrote:

KE will do really well in TIJ. AM's LF to MEX is apparently doing really amazing..

Hmmmm. For many months, Yahnih, you've been posting on the SAN-threads how much you'd love to see KE fly to and from SAN. So are you now saying that you would be just as happy to have them fly in and out of TIJ instead? Just curious.

bb[/quote]

I mean..I Really want KE in SAN. But if it comes to TIJ I wouldn’t be opposed either.. I’ll take what I can get haha.as long as I don’t have to drive to LAX. Both Pr and Oz (I’m not sure Ke) offer free shuttle service to LaX daily for their flights.. hopefully those numbers and plus some (the ones that don’t wanna shuttle up) can show enough stats to provide our own nonstop? The only reason I think KE is more likely Bc they can use the 787...even though I think there is enough demand for Oz a350s

SANMAN66 wrote:

SANFan wrote:

gollumSD wrote:

Let me start off by saying I am the biggest San Diego booster there is.

I might challenge that statement, gollum', but it's Super Bowl weekend so that's enough fighting!

bb

I think I might challenge that statement too! I'd much rather do spotting at Lindbergh Field than watch the Super Bowl!
A 744 or 787 taking off from SAN is much more impressive to me than watching a football game! (Sorry I'm still angry
at the Chargers! )

I am in no means saying I am the biggest SAN booster, I just love San Diego in general.

@SANFan

I note your concern regarding the future of TPAC service to San Diego International Airport following the Hainan PEK-TIJ-MEX-TIJ-PEK announcement.

I would suggest that your concern is unfounded for three reasons:

(1) SAN and TIJ are not really the same market. The overlap is limited at best.
(2) PRC carriers operate in the context of larger strategic imperatives, given their linkages to the state.
(3) The USA-PRC BASA is currently restricted, with little or no scope for further service expansion.

To revisit the Korean Air example you cited, I very much doubt that KE would choose TIJ over SAN, just as JL has not.

I'd say the Hainan move is an outlier, and it may be related, in some form, to China-Mexico economic co-operation. Perhaps there are plans for Chinese investment in Baja California.

Otherwise, as we have seen, airlines that want to connect Mexico with East Asia tend to bypass TIJ to more directly serve the economic heart of Mexico:

--Aeromexico operates MEX-MTY-ICN-MEX.
--Aeromexico operates MEX-NRT-MEX, nonstop both ways.
--ANA operates NRT-MEX-NRT, nonstop both ways.
--Aeromexico continues to operates MEX-TIJ-PVG, but the return is now PVG-MEX.

gollumSD wrote:

I am in no means saying I am the biggest SAN booster, I just love San Diego in general.

We're just pulling your chain a bit, gollum'. It's just great to know that there are many of us SAN-Boosters out here!

And I'll bet there will be lots of us showing up at Laurel Street about mid-day on March 25!!

upwardfacing wrote:

@SANFan
I note your concern regarding the future of TPAC service to San Diego International Airport following the Hainan PEK-TIJ-MEX-TIJ-PEK announcement.
I would suggest that your concern is unfounded for three reasons

Good points, upward'! I agree with you and am now quite complacent with the situation (HU to TIJ.)

We in SAN have a great core of intercontinental service provided by MAJOR international flags: British Airways, Japan Airlines, and very soon now, Lufthansa! I find that very impressive! Besides them, we also have 2 Canadian airlines -- AC and WS -- connecting SAN with Canada, 2 major domestic cx, AS and WN, providing Mexico service, as well as Edelweiss also flying intercontinentally!

To be honest, 10 years ago, I would never have imagined this would be the case at Lindbergh Field! (After all, LAX is still only 100 miles up the 5!) So any other cx, and routes, that we will see in the future I consider to be icing, and I'm positive there will be more, perhaps LOTS more!

bb

SANFan wrote:

SANMAN66 wrote:

redrooster3 wrote:

T2W FIs project expected to be in service by July 1st, 2018. Suppose to be complete in June 2018. Japan, British, and Westjet will all move to T2W utilizing the new FIs

Wouldn't that also include Edelweiss, Lufthansa,and Air Canada moving to T2W also? Or will the Old FIs stay in operation
too?

And, will the AS move to T2E also happen at that time? That of course would empty out most of T1W, allowing, for example, NK and B6, etc., to move there, joining F9, and opening up space in T2W for the int'l flags to relocate there? Phew! What do you say red', that sound about right?

Seems to me that about everybody besides UA, DL, and WN will be moving around this summer! Get the maps ready!

bb

Alaska will move January 2019 to T2E. Edelweiss and Lufthansa will share Hawaiian/Air Canada's ticket counters, LH chose contract company Hallmark to work Above the wing job. But to answer your question, I am guessing that Edelweiss and Lufthansa will move to T2W once its complete

redrooster3 wrote:

Alaska will move January 2019 to T2E. Edelweiss and Lufthansa will share Hawaiian/Air Canada's ticket counters, LH chose contract company Hallmark to work Above the wing job. But to answer your question, I am guessing that Edelweiss and Lufthansa will move to T2W once its complete

Hmmmm. Well then, I'll be very curious to see how this all plays out. I can think of many issues with timing and gate usage for the 2nd half of 2018 given this information.

One thing that I wonder now is why is AS waiting so long to move? AFAIK, the old (current) FIS facilities in T2E will be empty/closed as of this coming July 1. That means 5-6 months before AS takes over that area (gates 20-22); could AS be planning to do something 'special' with that space? I've speculated on some possibilities recently on SAN threads.

I also wonder about the split-op's that AAG will be going with apparently, having some departures at gate 26 in T2E - VX is located in T2E now -- with the rest of their flights using T1W. Hmmmm.......

In any case, thanks for the info, red'. Please keep us posted with anything else you find out.

bb

I thought I'd offer an update on the Canadian air service situation this summer from SAN. There are, IMO, some interesting developments.

AC is stepping things up to nice levels beginning May 1. Their YYZ flight will be daily, and is operated with the rouge A321. (This is pretty much a year-round schedule now.) Seems to me any further upgrades on that route would involve multiple frequencies (or perhaps with a 767?!)

YVR, that funky market from SAN, is also seeing improvements: not only will there be triple daily service, but all 3 flights will now operate with Jazz CR9 equipment! (CR7s were the a/c of choice in the past.) It's amazing to me to remember just a couple of years ago, Fall 2012 thru Spring of 2016, when SAN had NO service at all to YVR -- on anybody! And here we are in Summer of 2018, with 3 daily CR9 r/t on AC (Jazz) plus service on WS as well!

Nicely timed flights will depart SAN for YVR at 7AM, 1:20PM, and at 4:25PM. (Jazz will continue to RON an a/c in SAN every night, year-round.)

WS is a bit of a different matter. Both of their routes, YYC and YVR, seem to be trimmed a bit this year: YYC will be served 3x weekly this summer (5x wkly in the winter) and YVR's seasonal service will be 2-3x weekly depending on the month. Both routes are apparently being flown with 738s.

I wonder if AC service to YYC or YUL, or ??? could be in our future? Could WS be planning any new destinations from SAN?

In the meantime, it's great to see that our service to Canada is certainly holding its own, even growing in some areas.

bb

SANFan wrote:

One thing that I wonder now is why is AS waiting so long to move? AFAIK, the old (current) FIS facilities in T2E will be empty/closed as of this coming July 1. That means 5-6 months before AS takes over that area (gates 20-22); could AS be planning to do something 'special' with that space? I've speculated on some possibilities recently on SAN threads.

I also wonder about the split-op's that AAG will be going with apparently, having some departures at gate 26 in T2E - VX is located in T2E now -- with the rest of their flights using T1W. Hmmmm.......

bb

I wonder if there are upgrades the airport wants/needs to do to those gates before AS can move. I'm not sure they've been able to update them to the same standard as the rest of T2E. I would think that a new lounge would have the be in the cards. SAN is one of their key stations and with all the traffic here some lounge space makes sense.

In the Asiana long-haul expansion thread someone (was it you, Yahnih?) mentioned SAN as an OZ destination. I wonder with some more A359s coming in if OZ could make the jump and start service, even if just 3-4x weekly. just dreaming out loud...

Makes sense to me to renovate gates 20-22 once the new FIS opens and before Alaska or someone else moves in. They can get a bit more terminal seating space by removing the inner glass wall since they'll no longer need the separate path to customs and immigration. I wonder if the gates will also be reconfigured; they're all currently widebody capable which Alaska doesn't need so they could try to squeeze in another gate. Or perhaps Hawaiian could move back (I remember flying a DC-10 out of gate 22) since they don't need access to the FIS but (assuming we keep the A330 to HNL) they do need a widebody gate.

amadorE175 wrote:

SANFan wrote:

One thing that I wonder now is why is AS waiting so long to move? AFAIK, the old (current) FIS facilities in T2E will be empty/closed as of this coming July 1. That means 5-6 months before AS takes over that area (gates 20-22); could AS be planning to do something 'special' with that space? I've speculated on some possibilities recently on SAN threads.

I also wonder about the split-op's that AAG will be going with apparently, having some departures at gate 26 in T2E - VX is located in T2E now -- with the rest of their flights using T1W. Hmmmm.......
bb

I wonder if there are upgrades the airport wants/needs to do to those gates before AS can move. I'm not sure they've been able to update them to the same standard as the rest of T2E. I would think that a new lounge would have the be in the cards. SAN is one of their key stations and with all the traffic here some lounge space makes sense.

A Board Room is one of the things I've wondered (and posted) about. All that soon-to-be empty space from the current FIS facilities belongs to the airport of course but I'm sure AAG could lease enough of it to make a very nice club! (Gotta remember though, that AS could have done the same with the old UA Red Carpet lounge in T1W and never did.) But times are different now and AAG is, without a doubt, a major player at SDIA -- over 40 daily departures to 30 unique destinations! And hopefully still growing!

The other thing I've spoken about is the possibility that AAG might create a tarmac-level boarding concourse for EMJs -- and whatever remains of Q400 service -- creating an additional boarding position or two in order to better use the large amount of real estate used by gates 20-22. (Similar to what they have at PDX & SEA.) The 5-6 months before AAG moves from T1W to T2E would give them adequate time to create a nice high-capacity nest for themselves! I'm hopeful we'll see some 'above-and-beyond' from AAG here.

bb

SANFan wrote:

amadorE175 wrote:

SANFan wrote:

One thing that I wonder now is why is AS waiting so long to move? AFAIK, the old (current) FIS facilities in T2E will be empty/closed as of this coming July 1. That means 5-6 months before AS takes over that area (gates 20-22); could AS be planning to do something 'special' with that space? I've speculated on some possibilities recently on SAN threads.

I also wonder about the split-op's that AAG will be going with apparently, having some departures at gate 26 in T2E - VX is located in T2E now -- with the rest of their flights using T1W. Hmmmm.......
bb

I wonder if there are upgrades the airport wants/needs to do to those gates before AS can move. I'm not sure they've been able to update them to the same standard as the rest of T2E. I would think that a new lounge would have the be in the cards. SAN is one of their key stations and with all the traffic here some lounge space makes sense.

A Board Room is one of the things I've wondered (and posted) about. All that soon-to-be empty space from the current FIS facilities belongs to the airport of course but I'm sure AAG could lease enough of it to make a very nice club! (Gotta remember though, that AS could have done the same with the old UA Red Carpet lounge in T1W and never did.) But times are different now and AAG is, without a doubt, a major player at SDIA -- over 40 daily departures to 30 unique destinations! And hopefully still growing!

The other thing I've spoken about is the possibility that AAG might create a tarmac-level boarding concourse for EMJs -- and whatever remains of Q400 service -- creating an additional boarding position or two in order to better use the large amount of real estate used by gates 20-22. (Similar to what they have at PDX & SEA.) The 5-6 months before AAG moves from T1W to T2E would give them adequate time to create a nice high-capacity nest for themselves! I'm hopeful we'll see some 'above-and-beyond' from AAG here.

bb

That seems to be in the works with Gate 16, they had the gate closed off yesterday and had workers painting new operational safety zone lines for 16, and 16a, maybe they're doing a 16b, Gate 17 could be a good contender for tarmac level boarding.

What carriers, who has the A350-1000 on order could be a potential candidate in the future starting service? Gate 51 now has A350-1000 markings

Yahnih wrote:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/sd-tourism-china-20180206-story.html

That's fine and dandy that the city wants to lure Chinese visitors to town, but it would be more
worthwhile if they could get a flight to China to boot, but that's not happening until the Chinese
govt.allows more flights to the U.S. We don't know yet whether the Hainan flights via TIJ will be
a success or not, unless SD tourism knows something we don't.

redrooster3 wrote:

What carriers, who has the A350-1000 on order could be a potential candidate in the future starting service? Gate 51 now has A350-1000 markings

I wonder if it's possible that we may see DL bring in one of their A350s, DL seems to be happy with
the A350. Lufthansa may eventually upgrade their A340s to A350s after they start service, (although
I'd rather see them upgrade to a 744 like BA!) As mentioned earlier, Asiana has A350s on order. BTW,
I wonder about the sudden popularity of the A321? Off the top of my head, there's at least five airlines
serving SAN, using A321s, I remember USAirways was the only U.S. carrier using them. Maybe the
airlines are using them as 757 replacements?

redrooster3 wrote:

SANFan wrote:

amadorE175 wrote:

I wonder if there are upgrades the airport wants/needs to do to those gates before AS can move. I'm not sure they've been able to update them to the same standard as the rest of T2E.

I've spoken about the possibility that AAG might create a tarmac-level boarding concourse for EMJs -- and whatever remains of Q400 service -- creating an additional boarding position or two in order to better use the large amount of real estate used by gates 20-22. (Similar to what they have at PDX & SEA.) The 5-6 months before AAG moves from T1W to T2E would give them adequate time to create a nice high-capacity nest for themselves! I'm hopeful we'll see some 'above-and-beyond' from AAG here.

That seems to be in the works with Gate 16, they had the gate closed off yesterday and had workers painting new operational safety zone lines for 16, and 16a, maybe they're doing a 16b, Gate 17 could be a good contender for tarmac level boarding.

I have a theory about what they're doing red'. First, I doubt AAG would make any major changes or do any remodeling in T1W since they'll be leaving in less than a year.

My thinking is that perhaps AAG is removing line markings for the Q400 (which gate 16 was used for almost exclusively in the recent past.) As of May 20, our MRY route, along with all Fresno flights will be flown with EMJs; that leaves STS, as of now, as the only Q400 route out of SAN. (And I have a feeling STS will be all-jet as well, very soon. Perhaps also by May 20. And hopefully with multiple daily flights!!!) But none of that doesn't happen until late May so I'm not sure why they would be removing the markings now...

Another idea is that perhaps they are adding lines for AirBi -- currently flown by VX -- as they will be flying various AS routes in a few months.

In any case, I personally appreciate the heads-up red'.

redrooster3 wrote:

What carriers, who has the A350-1000 on order could be a potential candidate in the future starting service? Gate 51 now has A350-1000 markings

I again mention that I swear, during discussions of Edelweiss issues last year, it was mentioned that the A350 is not an airplane that "works" for SAN. I assume it's got something to do with takeoff performance. I could very well be wrong but that's the way I remember it.

Now obviously if there ARE markings at gate 51 for the A350-1000, then it sure sounds like they are expecting to see one flying here sooner or later! Exciting!

(Hey, question for your red'. Are there A321 markings at gate 51? HA will be starting their OGG flight using the 321 in May and I wonder if they'll use 51 for both of their flights.)

bb

SANFan wrote:

redrooster3 wrote:

SANFan wrote:

I've spoken about the possibility that AAG might create a tarmac-level boarding concourse for EMJs -- and whatever remains of Q400 service -- creating an additional boarding position or two in order to better use the large amount of real estate used by gates 20-22. (Similar to what they have at PDX & SEA.) The 5-6 months before AAG moves from T1W to T2E would give them adequate time to create a nice high-capacity nest for themselves! I'm hopeful we'll see some 'above-and-beyond' from AAG here.

That seems to be in the works with Gate 16, they had the gate closed off yesterday and had workers painting new operational safety zone lines for 16, and 16a, maybe they're doing a 16b, Gate 17 could be a good contender for tarmac level boarding.

I have a theory about what they're doing red'. First, I doubt AAG would make any major changes or do any remodeling in T1W since they'll be leaving in less than a year.

My thinking is that perhaps AAG is removing line markings for the Q400 (which gate 16 was used for almost exclusively in the recent past.) As of May 20, our MRY route, along with all Fresno flights will be flown with EMJs; that leaves STS, as of now, as the only Q400 route out of SAN. (And I have a feeling STS will be all-jet as well, very soon. Perhaps also by May 20. And hopefully with multiple daily flights!!!) But none of that doesn't happen until late May so I'm not sure why they would be removing the markings now...

Another idea is that perhaps they are adding lines for AirBi -- currently flown by VX -- as they will be flying various AS routes in a few months.

In any case, I personally appreciate the heads-up red'.

redrooster3 wrote:

What carriers, who has the A350-1000 on order could be a potential candidate in the future starting service? Gate 51 now has A350-1000 markings

I again mention that I swear, during discussions of Edelweiss issues last year, it was mentioned that the A350 is not an airplane that "works" for SAN. I assume it's got something to do with takeoff performance. I could very well be wrong but that's the way I remember it.

Now obviously if there ARE markings at gate 51 for the A350-1000, then it sure sounds like they are expecting to see one flying here sooner or later! Exciting!

(Hey, question for your red'. Are there A321 markings at gate 51? HA will be starting their OGG flight using the 321 in May and I wonder if they'll use 51 for both of their flights.)

bb

Pretty much, every single plane can go to Gate 51 except 747-8 and A380, I forgot to mention that 51 now has A340-600 markings as well, as I said earlier, for the arrival of LH and the A340 and potential A346 subs? I think they removed the A350-800 mark too which was an Asiana contender?

redrooster3 wrote:

That seems to be in the works with Gate 16, they had the gate closed off yesterday and had workers painting new operational safety zone lines for 16, and 16a, maybe they're doing a 16b, Gate 17 could be a good contender for tarmac level boarding.

What carriers, who has the A350-1000 on order could be a potential candidate in the future starting service? Gate 51 now has A350-1000 markings

OZ, BA, CX, EY, JL, LATAM, QR, and VS are major carriers with the A35K on order. For the A350-1000 lines, BA would be the most likely explanation since they could be subbing A35Ks on the route once they take them. JL doesn't seems happy sending the 788 here; an upgauge to the A35K seems unlikely. For the rest of the carriers on the list, it's hard to say who'd be likely for new service. I've mentioned OZ as a desirable new entrant. South Korea is one of the bigger PDEW leaks to LAX according to some materials from the Authority in the last couple of years.

amadorE175 wrote:

redrooster3 wrote:

That seems to be in the works with Gate 16, they had the gate closed off yesterday and had workers painting new operational safety zone lines for 16, and 16a, maybe they're doing a 16b, Gate 17 could be a good contender for tarmac level boarding.

What carriers, who has the A350-1000 on order could be a potential candidate in the future starting service? Gate 51 now has A350-1000 markings

OZ, BA, CX, EY, JL, LATAM, QR, and VS are major carriers with the A35K on order. For the A350-1000 lines, BA would be the most likely explanation since they could be subbing A35Ks on the route once they take them. JL doesn't seems happy sending the 788 here; an upgauge to the A35K seems unlikely. For the rest of the carriers on the list, it's hard to say who'd be likely for new service. I've mentioned OZ as a desirable new entrant. South Korea is one of the bigger PDEW leaks to LAX according to some materials from the Authority in the last couple of years.

Why is JL unhappy?