Yahnih wrote:

amadorE175 wrote:

redrooster3 wrote:

That seems to be in the works with Gate 16, they had the gate closed off yesterday and had workers painting new operational safety zone lines for 16, and 16a, maybe they're doing a 16b, Gate 17 could be a good contender for tarmac level boarding.

What carriers, who has the A350-1000 on order could be a potential candidate in the future starting service? Gate 51 now has A350-1000 markings

OZ, BA, CX, EY, JL, LATAM, QR, and VS are major carriers with the A35K on order. For the A350-1000 lines, BA would be the most likely explanation since they could be subbing A35Ks on the route once they take them. JL doesn't seems happy sending the 788 here; an upgauge to the A35K seems unlikely. For the rest of the carriers on the list, it's hard to say who'd be likely for new service. I've mentioned OZ as a desirable new entrant. South Korea is one of the bigger PDEW leaks to LAX according to some materials from the Authority in the last couple of years.

Why is JL unhappy?

Woops, that should be "seem happy sending the 788." Apart from 77E subs during the early 787 (battery?) problems, JAL hasn't sent bigger aircraft here. I think my mind was concluding that an A35K from LJ didn't seem likely.

amadorE175 wrote:

Yahnih wrote:

amadorE175 wrote:

OZ, BA, CX, EY, JL, LATAM, QR, and VS are major carriers with the A35K on order. For the A350-1000 lines, BA would be the most likely explanation since they could be subbing A35Ks on the route once they take them. JL doesn't seems happy sending the 788 here; an upgauge to the A35K seems unlikely. For the rest of the carriers on the list, it's hard to say who'd be likely for new service. I've mentioned OZ as a desirable new entrant. South Korea is one of the bigger PDEW leaks to LAX according to some materials from the Authority in the last couple of years.

Why is JL unhappy?

Woops, that should be "seem happy sending the 788." Apart from 77E subs during the early 787 (battery?) problems, JAL hasn't sent bigger aircraft here. I think my mind was concluding that an A35K from LJ didn't seem likely.

I hope JL would upgauge at least to the 787-9. Those flights in the 788 are always full...

Also.. with JL ending flights from Tokyo to Incheon next month, there will be no 1 stop service intra-Asia anymore from SAN to ICN. So.. definitely KE or OZ should find this as an opportunity also with their new JV with DL. There’s a decent connection traffic for DL at SAN imo.

However..interesting enough.. the Korean community (non-AV geeks like ourselves) are now aware of the new TIJ flight and are definitely interested in it. So this will be interesting to watch it develop and maybe that flight will prove us wrong.

Btw.. Hainan Codeshares with KE..whcuh is why this flight has become more valuable than most think

Regarding JL and their SAN service, if I remember correctly, when they were subbing the T7 for the 787 during the grounding back in 2013, they limited the capacity of the 777 to the equivalent capacity of the 788 (186 pax.) That allowed the ongoing operation of the flight without worry of making last minute adjustments to loads.

According to my notes, the JL 789 carries only 9 more pax than the 788 so I don't think that upgrade would accomplish much. And I don't know how much in penalties a 777 would be subject to when flying from SAN w/b to Japan. In other words, how much additional capacity would the T7 realistically provide over a 788? If they could count on carrying ~50 additional pax on their 772, maybe they would do it. (Of course they could always add a second frequency with another 787 if the fleet availability is there!) And how about the A350?

There have previously been rumors reported about some sort of u/g in service on JL but so far, nothing. From everything I've heard and read, the NRT-SAN route is doing very well and it would say a lot if a capacity u/g should happen! Keep in mind JL began flying to SAN in December 2012 so they've just passed their 5 year anniversary!

Who knows, maybe JL has been waiting for the new FIS facilities to open before they start bringing more travelers(read: larger aircraft) to San Diego?

bb

As I was updating my records and going thru the T-100s, I came across some numbers I found interesting. I thought I'd share them.

Regarding Condor (DE) and their short-lived service to SAN last year, this was published in the Union last June as way of explanation as to why DE xld their SAN service:

“Condor’s strategy is to introduce nonstop service to Frankfurt for U.S. communities that are underserved with direct access to Europe,” said Condor spokesman Johannes Winter. “After extensive analysis based on various factors, among them the market situation, customer demand and profitability, we have decided to discontinue Condor nonstop flights from and to San Diego at the end of the summer.”

(A true explanation of exactly why they pulled their service was never forthcoming but most, I think, believe the reason was simply the announcement by LH that they would be starting service in 2018 at SAN.)

In any case, I found that DE did indeed get off to a rather slow start last year: overall LF for May 2017 was 63% and total pax carried to/from SAN was 2,846. However, their third month here, July, saw a combined LF of 90%, with 6,177 total pax in/out of Lindbergh! That is the last month available on the T-100s; they run ~6 months behind. Keep in mind that DE's service in May & June was 2x weekly, with a third flight added in July. That's part of the reason for the much larger pax count in July; but of course the LF of 90% still reflects 3 flights/week!

I assume that if anything, their traffic-carried probably improved from July. I conclude 2 things: Condor would have a hard time convincing me that they pulled their service here due to low numbers! And, looking at DE's numbers for June and July, I have a feeling that LH will do VERY well here!

If anyone's interested in what some other T-100s show for SAN, I would be happy to post more.

bb

Hello all,

Thanks for maintaining a SAN thread. Could any of you tell when Lufthansa and Edelweiss are starting their seasonal service
to SAN this spring? Also, do any of you have the arrival and departure schedules handy? I'm toying with the idea of making a trip
to San Diego at the end of March and "might" be swayed if there were some interesting aircraft to photograph. Thanks! I couldn't
find the info in a quick search of this thread or the old one.

Regards,

Edward

lindy field wrote:

Could any of you tell when Lufthansa and Edelweiss are starting their seasonal service to SAN this spring? Also, do any of you have the arrival and departure schedules handy?

LH begins SAN service 3/25 with A343 service X35. Arrival is 13:20 with a 15:20 departure. Their service will be year-round.

WK, AFAIK, starts their second season on 3/30 with A343 service on Mo/Fr with variable times. Again, to the best of my knowledge, the Friday flight will arrive at 21:50 with a departure at 23:20 (???) -- this sked will apparently op into early May. The Monday flight, commencing service on 4/02, will arrive SAN at 17:05 and depart at 18:45 (thru late April.) The May skeds are extremely variable and in June, the skeds settle into more consistency until service ends for the season in late October.

I would imagine everything is still subject to change -- especially Edelweiss!

Hope that helps you Lindy'.

bb

SANFan wrote:

If anyone's interested in what some other T-100s show for SAN, I would be happy to post more.

Would love to see more. Apart from WK and JL, not sure what of but anything you'd find interesting I'd like to read.

Thanks, SANfan! That's just what I was hoping for. That late arrival and departure by Edelweiss is interesting in that it's a good couple hours later than almost all European flights to California. In SFO (my local), the last flight out to Europe, LH to MUC, departs around 9:30 p.m. I believe the same holds for flights from LAX, with the earliest European flights arriving around 11:30 a.m. local time.

Would love to see JL t-100 Numbers.

Also booked a flight on LH to FRA in June. Perfect! The prices aren’t bad either (looking forward to it becoming a359 service in the future)

lindy field wrote:

Thanks, SANfan! That's just what I was hoping for. That late arrival and departure by Edelweiss is interesting in that it's a good couple hours later than almost all European flights to California. In SFO (my local), the last flight out to Europe, LH to MUC, departs around 9:30 p.m. I believe the same holds for flights from LAX, with the earliest European flights arriving around 11:30 a.m. local time.

Yes, the sked for WK is downright strange! Their Friday departure, after 11pm, is dangerously close to the airport's standard nighttime curfew plus the drop-dead midnight shut down of the runway! (I believe the runway resurfacing is still going on, at least in April and May?) Maybe Edelweiss has a sterling on time performance record and is not worried about cancellation of their flight but...

I'm sure their chaotic and weird schedule is due to the FIS issues which should be resolved by July so from then on, things seem to be more settled. WK is running many more flights this year than last - more than double the number! -- and I do hope all goes well for them. They seem to be trying hard to set up a workable operation here. (I am curious about their pax stats but I cant' find them listed in the T-100s.)

Since Edelweiss seems to really want to make things work here, I have a feeling the Lufthansa Group must like the idea of having both LH and WK serving SAN with their widely different offerings. That's encouraging to me.

I suspect WK and LH will share ticket counter and ops space starting next month. Their flights will both operate on Mondays this year -- but at different times. On Fridays, there's no LH flight but WK does operate their second weekly frequency.

bb

Here are a few numbers for JL from the T-100s. (Again, they are only up through last July so I can't report the 2017 totals yet.)

Looks to me like JL has done pretty well around here! They started service at Lindbergh in Dec 2012 and had those 787 battery issues for the first half of 2013. Since then things have settled down and pax growth has been consistently upward!

In 2013, JL carried a total of 78,008 pax to and from SAN, with an average LF of 71%. That LF figure might be a bit wonky since half of 2013 was flown with 777s carrying a restricted number of pax per flight, and not flying daily; for example, the combined LF -- arriving and departing -- was in the mid-50s during Feb, Mar, and Apr! Starting in June of 2013, when the daily 787 flights resumed, the LF jumped a good 15 points to end up the year with that overall 71% figure.

For 2016, JL flew 114,649 pax in and out of San Diego, the record annual high for JL here, with an 83% overall LF; the high LF for 2016 was in Sept, reporting 88% of seats occupied! Oh, and every month that year (except January, with 74%) had an LF of 80% or higher. Another way I like to look at it is that out of 186 available seats on every flight serving SAN, the average seats filled in 2016 was 155!

I'm happy to report that in 2017, thru July, the average LF was 85%, and June was a VERY good month for JL: combined LF was 92%, with a monthly total of 10,277 pax (the highest month since JL started flying here!) I'm going out on a limb here and predict that 2017 will be another record year for JL in all categories, hopefully strengthening the case for some sort of equipment or frequency upgrade for San Diego by the carrier.

(I would also guess that other Asian cx, including those in China, are studying those loads being carried by JL, and taking notes...!)

bb

SANFan wrote:

Here are a few numbers for JL from the T-100s. (Again, they are only up through last July so I can't report the 2017 totals yet.)

Looks to me like JL has done pretty well around here! They started service at Lindbergh in Dec 2012 and had those 787 battery issues for the first half of 2013. Since then things have settled down and pax growth has been consistently upward!

In 2013, JL carried a total of 78,008 pax to and from SAN, with an average LF of 71%. That LF figure might be a bit wonky since half of 2013 was flown with 777s carrying a restricted number of pax per flight, and not flying daily; for example, the combined LF -- arriving and departing -- was in the mid-50s during Feb, Mar, and Apr! Starting in June of 2013, when the daily 787 flights resumed, the LF jumped a good 15 points to end up the year with that overall 71% figure.

For 2016, JL flew 114,649 pax in and out of San Diego, the record annual high for JL here, with an 83% overall LF; the high LF for 2016 was in Sept, reporting 88% of seats occupied! Oh, and every month that year (except January, with 74%) had an LF of 80% or higher. Another way I like to look at it is that out of 186 available seats on every flight serving SAN, the average seats filled in 2016 was 155!

I'm happy to report that in 2017, thru July, the average LF was 85%, and June was a VERY good month for JL: combined LF was 92%, with a monthly total of 10,277 pax (the highest month since JL started flying here!) I'm going out on a limb here and predict that 2017 will be another record year for JL in all categories, hopefully strengthening the case for some sort of equipment or frequency upgrade for San Diego by the carrier.

(I would also guess that other Asian cx, including those in China, are studying those loads being carried by JL, and taking notes...!)

bb

Is there anyway to check premium loads? Bc I swear I always try to see if there are business seats available, but they are always booked, still forcing me to take flights form LAX or connecting flights by Delta/United to LAX/SFO respectively. However, the recent JV lets me now look up codeshare flights with KE.

SANFan wrote:

Here are a few numbers for JL from the T-100s. (Again, they are only up through last July so I can't report the 2017 totals yet.)

Looks to me like JL has done pretty well around here! They started service at Lindbergh in Dec 2012 and had those 787 battery issues for the first half of 2013. Since then things have settled down and pax growth has been consistently upward!

In 2013, JL carried a total of 78,008 pax to and from SAN, with an average LF of 71%. That LF figure might be a bit wonky since half of 2013 was flown with 777s carrying a restricted number of pax per flight, and not flying daily; for example, the combined LF -- arriving and departing -- was in the mid-50s during Feb, Mar, and Apr! Starting in June of 2013, when the daily 787 flights resumed, the LF jumped a good 15 points to end up the year with that overall 71% figure.

For 2016, JL flew 114,649 pax in and out of San Diego, the record annual high for JL here, with an 83% overall LF; the high LF for 2016 was in Sept, reporting 88% of seats occupied! Oh, and every month that year (except January, with 74%) had an LF of 80% or higher. Another way I like to look at it is that out of 186 available seats on every flight serving SAN, the average seats filled in 2016 was 155!

I'm happy to report that in 2017, thru July, the average LF was 85%, and June was a VERY good month for JL: combined LF was 92%, with a monthly total of 10,277 pax (the highest month since JL started flying here!) I'm going out on a limb here and predict that 2017 will be another record year for JL in all categories, hopefully strengthening the case for some sort of equipment or frequency upgrade for San Diego by the carrier.

(I would also guess that other Asian cx, including those in China, are studying those loads being carried by JL, and taking notes...!)

bb

Is there anyway to check premium loads? Bc I swear I always try to see if there are business seats available, but they are always booked, still forcing me to take flights form LAX or connecting flights by Delta/United to LAX/SFO respectively. However, the recent JV lets me now look up codeshare flights with KE.

Had an interesting visitor arrive yesterday. An Air China (Beijing Airlines) 737-700 BBJ It's still sitting here as of today... Routing was PVG-ANC-SAN. Anybody have an ideas?

smitty747 wrote:

Had an interesting visitor arrive yesterday. An Air China (Beijing Airlines) 737-700 BBJ It's still sitting here as of today... Routing was PVG-ANC-SAN. Anybody have an ideas?

A potential Air China route is coming?? (Hopefully) I feel SAN is getting a lot of mirror from SJC..so it does seem possible

Yahnih wrote:

Is there anyway to check premium loads?

Not that I know of. There are some things the cx are allowed to keep to themselves!

bb

Update on the WN sked extension released today: the new late summer/early fall skeds are effective from August 7 thru Oct 1. WN will offer 114 daily departures from SAN -- that's 11 more than the same sked extension last year! There will be nonstops in 31 distinct markets. Service to IND and MKE is dropped, hopefully just seasonally... ELP continues to be served, still on Sundays only.

WN's SEA-service will be reduced to a single n/s r/t. I imagine AS is pleased to see that! In addition, there are also a few minor frequency adjustments in our high-freq markets -- intra-CA routes + LAS & PHX.

To me, the dropping (again) of the new IND nonstop is a major disappointment, along with the continued 'seasonality' of the MKE flight. Both of these routes seem like continuing good opportunities for AAG. (SAN-MKE could certainly be served with the AAG EMJ on a year-round basis.) Unfortunately, I doubt that AAG will be jumping on either route anytime soon, especially in 2018.

GEG is another destination that WN tried last year and apparently quickly dropped -- another obvious market possibility for AAG to jump onto.

bb

smitty747 wrote:

Had an interesting visitor arrive yesterday. An Air China (Beijing Airlines) 737-700 BBJ It's still sitting here as of today... Routing was PVG-ANC-SAN. Anybody have an ideas?

I saw it sitting at the North Ramp today, but I couldn't see any writing on it, it was all-white with some sort of logo
on the tail. As for other news, I saw the first billboard for Lufthansa's new service next month, I hope there are
others around town, (Condor had billboards everywhere), I got a chance to see the new parking plaza and the
new addition that will house the new FIS facilities. The FIS building is all-glass! I cant wait to see the inside once
it opens. With the addition of the new parking garage, and the FIS addition, it doesn't look like the same airport!
I wonder if they'll open them both at the same time?

SANMAN66 wrote:

I saw it sitting at the North Ramp today, but I couldn't see any writing on it, it was all-white with some sort of logo on the tail. As for other news, I saw the first billboard for Lufthansa's new service next month, I hope there are others around town, (Condor had billboards everywhere), I got a chance to see the new parking plaza and the new addition that will house the new FIS facilities. The FIS building is all-glass! I cant wait to see the inside once it opens. With the addition of the new parking garage, and the FIS addition, it doesn't look like the same airport! I wonder if they'll open them both at the same time?

Yeah, the FIS looks pretty impressive from the front (outside.) I haven't been able to see what the back side (the gates) look like but I bet it's pretty cool also. Overall, the whole FIS experience should be a whole new world and one of the nicest in the country. I just hope we gets lots more cx taking advantage of it!

On another front, Lindy’s request of skeds got me thinking that I haven’t really looked lately at Edelweiss’ latest version of theirs. So this is the most current info and a couple of things might be a bit different Lindy! I would hope this is the final version of their 2018 schedule for SAN.

WK starts their second season next month with a Monday flight on March 30. (The flight arrives SAN at 4:50pm, departing here at 6:50pm and keeps that schedule thru the end of April.)

On Friday, April 2, WK will begin flying their second frequency – it is now scheduled to depart SAN at 10:40pm. (And that schedule stays the same until early May.) That, IMO, is much ‘safer’ than their previous (preliminary) departure time of 11:20PM – so close to curfew!

The arrival/departure times vary a lot until June 1 when they settle into a schedule that lasts thru late Sept. (Related to the opening of the new FIS?) The Monday and Friday schedules continue to be different from each other.

Then in late September, the Friday flight magically moves to Thursdays and operates thru Nov. 8. (Monday continues operating all season with the last flight on Nov 12!)

In review, this year will see 66 r/t operated by Edelweiss to SAN; last year saw ~30! (Can’t say they aren’t optimistic about San Diego!) Their season will last a bit under 8 months this year!

I for one am very pleased to see such an investment in service to our city. They should be here at least one more year, and hopefully will stay way beyond that. Who knows, maybe eventually year-round!?

bb

SANMAN66 wrote:

I saw it sitting at the North Ramp today, but I couldn't see any writing on it, it was all-white with some sort of logo on the tail. As for other news, I saw the first billboard for Lufthansa's new service next month, I hope there are others around town, (Condor had billboards everywhere), I got a chance to see the new parking plaza and the new addition that will house the new FIS facilities. The FIS building is all-glass! I cant wait to see the inside once it opens. With the addition of the new parking garage, and the FIS addition, it doesn't look like the same airport! I wonder if they'll open them both at the same time?

SANFan wrote:

Yeah, the FIS looks pretty impressive from the front (outside.) I haven't been able to see what the back side (the gates) look like but I bet it's pretty cool also. Overall, the whole FIS experience should be a whole new world and one of the nicest in the country. I just hope we gets lots more cx taking advantage of it!

Flew out of SAN on Tuesday and the airside component (at least on 48 and 49) looks pretty complete right now. The extensions holding the stairs, elevators, and corridors look structurally finished. The exteriors were white. I'm not sure if that's the finished look or if they structures still had protective coverings on them. It's a shame I wasn't quick enough to snap a picture.

SANFan wrote:

On Friday, April 2, WK will begin flying their second frequency – it is now scheduled to depart SAN at 10:40pm. (And that schedule stays the same until early May.) That, IMO, is much ‘safer’ than their previous (preliminary) departure time of 11:20PM – so close to curfew!

Thank goodness for that. I was very concerned about their schedule combined with the curfew and the runway work.

SANFan wrote:

In review, this year will see 66 r/t operated by Edelweiss to SAN; last year saw ~30! (Can’t say they aren’t optimistic about San Diego!) Their season will last a bit under 8 months this year!

Part of that increase in rotations is due to how many they missed last year with mechanical issues. It's good to see WK and the Authority working together to help make WK's venture here a success. Do you know when the T100 data for last year's season would be available?

On a different note, AS seems to be investing a little more into advertising in the region. Was in North County and saw and ad for them and their credit card as a full-size ad on one of the NCTD buses. This is the first time I've seen any airline advertise on the buses in the region. I'll take it as an indication of their commitment to shoring up their position in the region.

Could AS fly to Carlsbad to capture North County area?

ibthebigd wrote:

Could AS fly to Carlsbad to capture North County area?

The smallest aircraft they have is the Q400 - well they have the leased 50 seat CRJ-200s operated by OO but they are gone in a few months. I know they also have E75s which seat the same as the Q400s, but didn't California Pacific have trouble with the E70s at CLD? Right now the only carrier at CLD is 7Q (Cal Jet Elite) with a sole LAS route. If AS offered a LAX or SFO route, they could at least offer connectivity to its hubs and codeshare network and offer another airport to reach Northern San Diego County, Camp Pendleton, Southern Orange County (San Clemente/Dana Point), and Southwest Riverside County (Temecula/Murrieta).

I have wondered though they haven't expanded more regional destinations out of SAN with Q400s like FAT, SBP maybe even seasonal TVL (although no carrier flies in there currently, it'd be a perfect seasonal QX/AS destination)

SANAV8R wrote:

I have wondered though AS haven't expanded more regional destinations out of SAN with Q400s like FAT, SBP maybe even seasonal TVL (although no carrier flies in there currently, it'd be a perfect seasonal QX/AS destination)

AS currently flies SAN-FAT 3x daily in the summer, possibly year-round eventually, PLUS, as reported earlier, this spring, all 3 flights will operate w EMJs! (MRY will also become a jet flight in May!)

So, as of right now, Saturday, 2/17. the only Q400 to be serving SAN will be the single STS r/t. (And I believe it will also become an EMJ shortly, and perhaps even daily-double service!) I would therefore expect we won't see anymore Qs here after this spring/summer. I will actually miss the plane but I believe that's called progress, right?

However, I would sure love to see more intra-CA routes by AAG using the EMJ. My list includes, as you mentioned, SBP, plus, SBA, SCK and how about PSP? I also wouldn't be too surprised if AAG started SAN-RNO at some point, competing with WN, which would cover service to Tahoe.

I like your thoughts about TVL but I think the NIMBYs there might be the main reason nobody flies there any more. I also recall that when PSA still flew there, with their Electras, lots of weather issues played havoc with their service. With AAG's interest in serving seasonal ski destinations, I can't believe they haven't done lots of research on Tahoe and apparently, tossed the idea.

bb

Why does AS not serve PHX/LAS. I know both cities are WN focus cities but you'd think they'd serve them for there FF base?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

ibthebigd wrote:

Why does AS not serve PHX/LAS? I know both cities are WN focus cities but you'd think they'd serve them for their FF base?

From a few bits I've heard hear and there, both cities are due to be served by AAG from SAN. There was talk, in fact, when DL started SAN-LAS in late 2016, that the reason was to beat AS into the market. They certainly were successful, if that was DL's goal...

I really don't know what to think about AAG. I hope they will get things worked out with the merger and the QX pilot issues and get back to their growth mode. In SAN alone, there are great opportunities awaiting AAG's attention (such as IND and MKE to name just 2.) And routes such as PHX, TUS, LAS, RNO, ELP, etc., will hopefully happen sooner rather than never.

They'll have new digs at SDIA in 2019 so maybe that will be the catalyst to start things rolling again! I really hope so.

bb

Speaking of AS and SAN, I'm sorry to see that, according to Enilria's great OAG thread this morning, AS is dropping their relatively new SAN-MEX flight in a few months. I'm disappointed because the route only began in November, was served by an EMJ -- with "only" 75 seats to sell -- and will be dropped at the end of May. So it didn't even operate during the summer season. I've looked at the seat map a few times and, according to that very unreliable source, the loads looked to be very low but I just hope they didn't give up too soon on the route.

After this, I will be very surprised to see any carrier attempt to fly any of the business routes to Mexico -- MEX, GDL -- out of Lindbergh. And I think that's a shame.

BTW, AAG is also dropping one of their 2 fairly new LA-MEX routes at the same time (the EMJ did a SAN-MEX-LAX-MEX-SAN routing every day so I assume that's the LA-MEX r/t that will be dropped) so I guess they didn't have huge success in that market either...

This will be the first 'new' AAG route serving SAN to be dropped in many years; every other new route they've begun is still flying, with some even growing in frequency since they began. I think that's a pretty good track record for AS and I hope they will at least use that now-available EMJ for something else (new) out of SDIA! I've got my long list of suggestions should AAG need any help deciding what to do with that a/c!

bb

Stumbled across this fare today. It appears bookable on AF website for (11/29/18) only. Direct flight from SAN to CDG coming?

AF 303
6:05 PM
San Diego, Lindbergh Field
2:00 PM +1
Paris, Charles de Gaulle
Air France Operated by Air France
Aircraft
Boeing 777-300ER

mjmcinto wrote:

Stumbled across this fare today. It appears bookable on AF website for (11/29/18) only. Direct flight from SAN to CDG coming?

AF 303
6:05 PM
San Diego, Lindbergh Field
2:00 PM +1
Paris, Charles de Gaulle
Air France Operated by Air France
Aircraft
Boeing 777-300ER

I just replicated this and it appears at this point to be a one off to me as well. Interested to see how this develops.

bw50505 wrote:

mjmcinto wrote:

Stumbled across this fare today. It appears bookable on AF website for (11/29/18) only. Direct flight from SAN to CDG coming?

AF 303
6:05 PM
San Diego, Lindbergh Field
2:00 PM +1
Paris, Charles de Gaulle
Air France Operated by Air France
Aircraft
Boeing 777-300ER

I just replicated this and it appears at this point to be a one off to me as well. Interested to see how this develops.

Sometime last October, someone updated Wikipedia to indicate AF would initiate service to SAN this coming April. I had hoped someone with inside information was trying to get a head start on any service announcement (it was subsequently pulled from Wiki). Recall also that in March of last year when the the airport planning committee was making the case to expand the FIS facility, one of the presenters indicted a European hub carrier with 787s on order was contemplating service to SAN. AF/KLM was the likely candidate.

So, with this new nugget, I would not be surprised to see a AF announcement in the not too distant future. We shall see.

bw50505 wrote:

mjmcinto wrote:

Stumbled across this fare today. It appears bookable on AF website for (11/29/18) only. Direct flight from SAN to CDG coming?

AF 303
6:05 PM
San Diego, Lindbergh Field
2:00 PM +1
Paris, Charles de Gaulle
Air France Operated by Air France
Aircraft
Boeing 777-300ER

I just replicated this and it appears at this point to be a one off to me as well. Interested to see how this develops.

And a one off return flight on Dec 4
AF 302 (77W) - operated by Air France
CDG -1:10pm;
SAN - 3:55pm

Samfam1000 wrote:

mjmcinto wrote:

Stumbled across this fare today. It appears bookable on AF website for (11/29/18) only. Direct flight from SAN to CDG coming?

AF 303
6:05 PM
San Diego, Lindbergh Field
2:00 PM +1
Paris, Charles de Gaulle
Air France Operated by Air France
Aircraft
Boeing 777-300ER

Sometime last October, someone updated Wikipedia to indicate AF would initiate service to SAN this coming April. I had hoped someone with inside information was trying to get a head start on any service announcement (it was subsequently pulled from Wiki). Recall also that in March of last year when the airport planning committee was making the case to expand the FIS facility, one of the presenters indicted a European hub carrier with 787s on order was contemplating service to SAN. AF/KLM was the likely candidate..

So, with this new nugget, I would not be surprised to see a AF announcement in the not too distant future. We shall see.

The 'leak' on Wiki last October for an April start-up sounds like appropriate timing but perhaps the carrier decided to wait until AFTER the new FIS facilities are up and running before starting service here. (And that sounds like a very good plan to me!)

And I remember very well when Hampton made that statement about 'another Euro hub cx...' My thought and hope was that he referred to KLM (or even DL) but I would certainly be fine with AF! And I do remember that several folks thought out loud about AF. (We really do need to hear internationally from SkyTeam sooner or later around here!)

Sounds to me like a healthy amount of 'evidence' to at least get the rumor mill spinning at a higher speed! I would think a new intercontinental route could still do a summer start-up if the announcement comes very quickly but fall would of course be even better.

And the flight number certainly doesn't sound like a charter one. Anybody located any evidence of inbound/outbound flights to get that a/c here or home before/after flights 302/303? Any knowledge of some event in France at the beginning of December that a lot of people from here would charter a plane to attend? Me thinks some searching and detecting needs to be continued by us.

Great jobs, mjm' and Amador', for finding and reporting these great nuggets! Fingers crossed that this all turns out the way we all hope it will!!!!!!!

bb

I just now went to the AF website and found something else interesting!

On their route map, I clicked on SAN, clicked on 'destinations', scrolled thru the 3 pages of destinations listed -- by AF, from San Diego -- found Paris, and it showed:

'Leaving From.......Going To'...........Airline
....... Single Leg.................................Air France
San Diego..............Charles de .......Stops
Intl Airport..............Gaulle.................Nonstop
...............................Airport...............Distance
..........................................................9,159 km.

(I apologize that I do not know how to copy and paste the photo I took of the page but the above is a true representation of the info there! Check it out!)

When I clicked on the '"Book Now" option, I was told that AF did not serve SAN, so we still have a way to go. Of course it's also possible that because there apparently IS a flight operating in November between SAN and CDG, and a return, the route map will automatically register that there is nonstop service offered...

(BTW, the Great Circle Mapper lists SAN-CDG as 9,169 km.)

But, when I also checked PHX on the same route map, there was no nonstop option found, only the usual, expected connections via DL hubs, etc., which also appeared on the SAN listing.

Got to put on my Sherlock hat now and get back to it!

bb

Typically the interactive route map automatically reflects any flight loaded in the booking system. So if AF has loaded a one-time charter or special flight, it will appear on the map. It is not an indication of anything more or less. It would be good to know why AF is bringing the bird in, in the first instance.

In any case, it will be cool to see an AF 773 on SAN's ramp.

axiom wrote:

Typically the interactive route map automatically reflects any flight loaded in the booking system. So if AF has loaded a one-time charter or special flight, it will appear on the map. It is not an indication of anything more or less. It would be good to know why AF is bringing the bird in, in the first instance.

In any case, it will be cool to see an AF 773 on SAN's ramp.

Thanx for confirming that, Ax'; I thought that's the way it might work. We'll just have to wait and see what else turns up...

bb

Checked the Delta booking website it shows up too!
DL8486
DL8481

This AF flight is to bring Conference attendees to the Hematology Annual Conference occurring in San Diego from Dec 1-4. It looks like rather than ferrying back they will send it back as a revenue flight - and that is a great thing!

GRUIAD wrote:

This AF flight is to bring Conference attendees to the Hematology Annual Conference occurring in San Diego from Dec 1-4. It looks like rather than ferrying back they will send it back as a revenue flight - and that is a great thing!

So that 77W is bringing attendees HERE for a conference? Then the flights we've found are the "returns" of the conference charter flights -- which must fly PAR-SAN on 11/29 -- bringing attendees here -- and SAN-PAR on 12/4 -- taking them home. So those are the unpublished charter flights.

"That's a great thing" is right, GRU'! AF actually selling the ferry flights as revenue flights that are published in the AF/KL/DL flight skeds and booking engines!

Ok it's clear then folks, we've got to sell out those ferry flights (#303/303.) So everyone, please clear your calendars and plan a quick trip to France between 11/29 and 12/4!

Disappointing in some ways, but we have an explanation. If AF likes the way this all works out, well, who knows...! Great job and thanks to everyone for their hard work in figuring this out so quickly.

bb

Proving flights?

Proving flights?

SANMAN66 wrote:

Proving flights?

What's there to prove? Through the JV, DL/AF/KL will know the market very well already.

The 773 is a whole lot of plane for a new market, but it would be great to see AF back in a growth mode. Tough to imagine with their labor problems, unfortunately. I know I'd love to see their tails at more US ports!

Would Delta start AMS or CDG with a 767 or A330?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

So it's open to the public and bookable? I'm really tempted to do it just for the novelty of it...

Scooter wrote:

So it's open to the public and bookable? I'm really tempted to do it just for the novelty of it...

Yep! And bookable through Delta and with Skymiles.

axiom wrote:

The 773 is a whole lot of plane for a new market, but it would be great to see AF back in a growth mode. Tough to imagine with their labor problems, unfortunately. I know I'd love to see their tails at more US ports!

Agreed, the 77W seems like a lot to start a new route. Not reading anything into this since it's a one off flight but, as of yesterday evening, the flight is scheduled with a their premium configuration 77W with first class (296 seats total). As a point of comparison, AF's 789s have slightly fewer seats (276, no first class) and could be a slightly better fit for opening a new route like SAN.

UA 737-9 MAX service from IAH begins June 7. Arrival at 2252 so departure should be catchable in the morning.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1386927

Also found this on Facebook, apparently JL will be increasing capacity by sending the 788 in a different seating layout starting this Summer (206 vs 186 seats).

https://m.facebook.com/sdspotting/posts/716693698538346

Anyone know why WN N714CB is sitting on the old commuter ramp?

futuresdpdcop wrote:

Anyone know why WN N714CB is sitting on the old commuter ramp?

Any idea how long it's been there? Isn't that where WN parks RON overflow?

bb

SANFan wrote:

futuresdpdcop wrote:

Anyone know why WN N714CB is sitting on the old commuter ramp?

Any idea how long it's been there? Isn't that where WN parks RON overflow?

bb

It was parked there since around noon and still there when I left at 5pm. Came in from SLC

Just thought I'd mention something recently posted on a new JAL thread. Here's the link: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1387465

It was suggested (reliability unknown) that SAN-TYO might be in line for an upgrade to the 787-9, which seats 239 pax in 3 classes -- 28/21/190. There was really no time frame given but the discussion was about impending world-wide JL expansion.

Apparently this April, as reported up-thread, we will see a few additional seats on our 787 as a new configuration is introduced. Perhaps next would be the 789?! I don't see any particular reason why more capacity would not be coming our way, when available, since we seem to continue doing very well with loads on our existing JL service!

bb