hkcanadaexpat wrote:

AA just released their latest fleet plan and the retirement of the 763ER fleet is even quicker than planned. (6) in 2019, (13) in 2020 and (5) in 2021.

How many more this year? Oh, wait. That adds up to 24. Seems weird that none will leave this year given the drip drip drip the past few years.

hkcanadaexpat wrote:

"hkcanadaexpat" wrote:

On the more negative side of things, American Airlines has thrown in the towel on the 767s. The reliability was disastrous. It tried to put two frames through complete overhaul to fix that. Looks like the cost/time was outweighed by a sweet deal for new 788 frames. The remaining 24 AA 763ERs will be retired in the 2020-22 period. Expect a number of them to end up being converted to cargo if the cargo market remains robust heading into the next decade.

AA just released their latest fleet plan and the retirement of the 763ER fleet is even quicker than planned. (6) in 2019, (13) in 2020 and (5) in 2021.

I had a feeling this was going to happen. Idk too much about aircraft and still learning, but with horrible reliability, I really don't think they will be fit as a cargo airliner if they suck that bad. Aside from that, It would surprise me if they do the same to the 777-200ERs.

Narfish641 wrote:

with horrible reliability, I really don't think they will be fit as a cargo airliner if they suck that bad..

Actually, for what it's worth, they'll be fine. For a couple of reasons.

First, they will be newer than the 10+ American Airlines retired 767-300ERs that CAM has already converted and placed into service.

Second, IAI/Bedek does heavy maintenance on the airframe while the thing is stripped and opened up for conversion. In theory, the airframe is good for another 20 years once it has been converted.

Third, cargo aircraft generally fly fewer hours (and often fewer cycles) per day than do aircraft in passenger service at a mainline carrier. It's on the ground more, so there is more time to work on it between flights, and it's not accumulating hours (and often cycles) as fast as it would have to at American.

Fourth, nobody gives a crap what the interior looks like. Ever read Flyertalk? In the passenger world, people whine about the stupidest stuff inside the airplane. Freight dogs think it's luxurious if they don't have to crap into a plastic bag "toilet".

hkcanadaexpat wrote:

"hkcanadaexpat" wrote:

On the more negative side of things, American Airlines has thrown in the towel on the 767s. The reliability was disastrous. It tried to put two frames through complete overhaul to fix that. Looks like the cost/time was outweighed by a sweet deal for new 788 frames. The remaining 24 AA 763ERs will be retired in the 2020-22 period. Expect a number of them to end up being converted to cargo if the cargo market remains robust heading into the next decade.

AA just released their latest fleet plan and the retirement of the 763ER fleet is even quicker than planned. (6) in 2019, (13) in 2020 and (5) in 2021.

I suppose Amazon (or rather, Atlas and ATSG) would be sniffing at these right now.

Narfish641 wrote:

hkcanadaexpat wrote:

"hkcanadaexpat" wrote:

On the more negative side of things, American Airlines has thrown in the towel on the 767s. The reliability was disastrous. It tried to put two frames through complete overhaul to fix that. Looks like the cost/time was outweighed by a sweet deal for new 788 frames. The remaining 24 AA 763ERs will be retired in the 2020-22 period. Expect a number of them to end up being converted to cargo if the cargo market remains robust heading into the next decade.

AA just released their latest fleet plan and the retirement of the 763ER fleet is even quicker than planned. (6) in 2019, (13) in 2020 and (5) in 2021.

I had a feeling this was going to happen. Idk too much about aircraft and still learning, but with horrible reliability, I really don't think they will be fit as a cargo airliner if they suck that bad. Aside from that, It would surprise me if they do the same to the 777-200ERs.

The positive part is a lot of the AA 767s have gone to Amazon or other CAM clients.

jeffrey0032j wrote:

hkcanadaexpat wrote:

"hkcanadaexpat" wrote:

On the more negative side of things, American Airlines has thrown in the towel on the 767s. The reliability was disastrous. It tried to put two frames through complete overhaul to fix that. Looks like the cost/time was outweighed by a sweet deal for new 788 frames. The remaining 24 AA 763ERs will be retired in the 2020-22 period. Expect a number of them to end up being converted to cargo if the cargo market remains robust heading into the next decade.

AA just released their latest fleet plan and the retirement of the 763ER fleet is even quicker than planned. (6) in 2019, (13) in 2020 and (5) in 2021.

I suppose Amazon (or rather, Atlas and ATSG) would be sniffing at these right now.

I expect it may have been part of the Boeing deal.

Agreed with the comments - a 14/15 year old 763 is worthless in the pax market - it's the freighter conversion market where the money is (A330's depreciate much better as it's a better design, hence why they're being converted later in life).

Hence why all these early-2000's 767's are losing their p-cards at 14/15 years old I see the remaining AA birds going to the conversion facilities like most of their predecessors.

Regardless of depreciation, the 14/15-year-old 767-300ERs are definitely being transferred for continued passenger use.

It's the 24/25-year-old 767-300ERs that seem almost too old to be converted that are being converted.

The original AA plan was actually to hold onto those 14/15-year-old ones; if they don't change the plan again, then it will be interesting to see if they end up as passenger aircraft or instead as relatively-new conversions.

1989worstyear wrote:

Agreed with the comments - a 14/15 year old 763 is worthless in the pax market - it's the freighter conversion market where the money is (A330's depreciate much better as it's a better design, hence why they're being converted later in life).

Hence why all these early-2000's 767's are losing their p-cards at 14/15 years old I see the remaining AA birds going to the conversion facilities like most of their predecessors.

The 767s are not really worthless in the pax market, there are still 767s changing hands between pax carriers, and even Atlas has gotten a second hand pax 767 (not for conversion) to replace their own pax 767 which they converted into a freighter. The reality is the 767 freighter is in hot demand, more so than any other model due to its versatility and right size, this means that the cargo airlines (or agents like CAM) are willing to pay a lot more than pax carriers do, because the next best alternative - the A330, is not as good a freighter as the 767. The A330 is too big for the A300/767 sized lots at the cargo hubs and isn't the right size/payload range combination unlike the 767F and 777F. The A330 also requires extensive strengthening to become a freighter while the 767 requires very few of such works. All these lead to potential 767 pax operators being outbid by the cargo carriers.

The A330s stay as pax planes for longer only because there wasn't a conversion program for it until a few years ago, and even so, it is still at infancy, and it remains to be seen as to how many lucky A330s would get a life extension as a freighter, after all it is a slow start for the A330 conversion program, plus the fact that even the new built A330F didn't catch on.

The second ex-JAL frame to UPS N364UP operated as UPS9510 GYR-ANC-TPE to start conversion.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/id/U ... 984-1-0-36

The conversion order is interesting. 363 was the first to arrive at GYR (April 2017), then 362 in October, then 364 in February 2018. 363 was the first into conversion (March 2018), now 364 (April 2018), and 362 is still waiting... Also interesting to see that the new TPE line is consistently occupied and taking more than one aircraft at a time. The first aircraft through the new line took just about 6 months, including painting. There is an Atlas there now, which has been there about 2.5 months. Figuring that normally it takes about 5 months at QPG to do a BCF, and TPE should run about the same, bringing this UPS one in would be consistent with pushing one out every 2.5 months. Of course, each aircraft actually is different: there's an Atlas at QPG that's been there 5.5 months.

CN-ROW / ln 743 was re-delivered to Royal Air Maroc on April 15th after being converted as a BCF at QPG. Aircraft was painted in Istanbul.

UR-AZC (Azur Air Ukraine) has been delivered to @KBP on 4/24 after being refurbished @SAW. This is an internal transfer within the Azur Air Group. LN 351. 1991-build. Originally delivered to Transbrasil. Most recently operated by Azur Air. Leased from Azex.

Does anybody know: How many 767s with the PW JTD9-engines are still flying?

hilram wrote:

Does anybody know: How many 767s with the PW JTD9-engines are still flying?

The number is somewhere between 10 and 15. As you can imagine some fly less than others so tough to say if they are retired or simply temporarily stored. The most active ones are probably the 5x Atlas cargo ones.

Speaking of JT9D 767s, anyone have any info on N606TW? Owned by Boeing and last used by the Italian Military in 2011 as a training frame, it was stored at KIAB but cannot be seen on any satellite images. I went onboard this plane in 2010 and was surprised to see a TWA interior so long after their demise.

DL_Mech wrote:

Speaking of JT9D 767s, anyone have any info on N606TW? Owned by Boeing and last used by the Italian Military in 2011 as a training frame, it was stored at KIAB but cannot be seen on any satellite images. I went onboard this plane in 2010 and was surprised to see a TWA interior so long after their demise.

According to FlightAware, here's it's last flight from BGR>IAB in February 2011:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N606TW

hkcanadaexpat wrote:

UR-AZC (Azur Air Ukraine) has been delivered to @KBP on 4/24 after being refurbished @SAW. This is an internal transfer within the Azur Air Group. LN 351. 1991-build. Originally delivered to Transbrasil. Most recently operated by Azur Air. Leased from Azex.

From sources in Ukraine: 2 763 will be transferred from Germany to Ukraine, and 737-900 will go to Germany. I dont know if that includes the 767 that currently flies in Ukraine under German reg.

Does anyone know if LA is transferring more 767s to JJ?
I see that a few chilean regs are flying/scheduled to fly routes from Brazil, which seems odd. International flying would be ok, but I would say it is not allowed to fly domestic routes...

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/cc-czu
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/cc-cxk

Marik154 wrote:

hkcanadaexpat wrote:

UR-AZC (Azur Air Ukraine) has been delivered to @KBP on 4/24 after being refurbished @SAW. This is an internal transfer within the Azur Air Group. LN 351. 1991-build. Originally delivered to Transbrasil. Most recently operated by Azur Air. Leased from Azex.

From sources in Ukraine: 2 763 will be transferred from Germany to Ukraine, and 737-900 will go to Germany. I dont know if that includes the 767 that currently flies in Ukraine under German reg.

Looks like it's official -- LN 351 (from Azur Air) and LN 385 (from Azur Air Germany) are transferred to Azur Air Ukraine.

These things are 27 years old...

And a ten-year old 739 goes away. Not good news.

Does anyone know what is happening/ will happen to former Transaero Airlines (UN) B767-33A/ER EI-DFS, currently impounded at HKIA?

Last update I could find was it was due for auction to cover outstanding parking fees. http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/econ ... ay-be-sold

This was back in 2016, any update since then? It seems this is a poor bird, in storage for 3 years, same as EI-UNF sitting at PVG. The other 15 aircraft have found new home after UN's collapse.

According to this list, ship 26 was refurbished and is still flying. Will this be
the oldest overall 767 still in service today?

B764er wrote:

According to this list, ship 26 was refurbished and is still flying. Will this be the oldest overall 767 still in service today?

No. LN 6 (ABX Air) is the oldest still active. The oldest in pax config is LN 10 (Jet Asia Airways).

hkcanadaexpat wrote:

B764er wrote:

According to this list, ship 26 was refurbished and is still flying. Will this be the oldest overall 767 still in service today?

No. LN 6 (ABX Air) is the oldest still active. The oldest in pax config is LN 10 (Jet Asia Airways).

Amazingly, N740AX (ln 6) flies pretty-much every day, sometimes for 2-3 segments and 6-10 hours per day. Not bad for 36 years old.

Looks like N775AX (ln 69) is being moved to DHL International. Also, N792AX (ln 110) seems to have been retired due to upcoming maintenance. It was scheduled to have an aft bulkhead replacement in the coming months.

KCVGSpotter wrote:

Looks like N775AX (ln 69) is being moved to DHL International. Also, N792AX (ln 110) seems to have been retired due to upcoming maintenance. It was scheduled to have an aft bulkhead replacement in the coming months.

So just to clarify: They're now NOT going to do the bulkhead swap on N792AX and it's done flying forever? Or is this a short term parking thing with slack in the fleet?

Because it kinda sounds like they got 5 good hard years out of the 12 762s for the Amazon flying, but those leases might not be renewed (upgauging to 763s perhaps)

hkcanadaexpat wrote:

N662GT (Atlas Air) was delivered to @MZJ (for painting) on 3/22 following refurbishment @HHN. This is a passenger-configured aircraft for Atlas Air's charter business. LN 595. 1995-build. Originally delivered to Martinair. Most recently flown by VIM Airlines.

Do we still think this thing is being painted at MZJ? Last flight in both tracking services have it at AVQ... Planespotters has it stored at MZJ. Curious. 3/22 to 5/7 is a little long for painting, which is typically about 2 weeks for a 767 at any of the major US contractors.

Spacepope wrote:

KCVGSpotter wrote:

Looks like N775AX (ln 69) is being moved to DHL International. Also, N792AX (ln 110) seems to have been retired due to upcoming maintenance. It was scheduled to have an aft bulkhead replacement in the coming months.

So just to clarify: They're now NOT going to do the bulkhead swap on N792AX and it's done flying forever? Or is this a short term parking thing with slack in the fleet?

Because it kinda sounds like they got 5 good hard years out of the 12 762s for the Amazon flying, but those leases might not be renewed (upgauging to 763s perhaps)

From what I was told, the time and cost of the aft bulkhead replacement didn't warrant the work. 792 was dry leased to DHL, not Amazon.

KCVGSpotter wrote:

Spacepope wrote:

KCVGSpotter wrote:

Looks like N775AX (ln 69) is being moved to DHL International. Also, N792AX (ln 110) seems to have been retired due to upcoming maintenance. It was scheduled to have an aft bulkhead replacement in the coming months.

So just to clarify: They're now NOT going to do the bulkhead swap on N792AX and it's done flying forever? Or is this a short term parking thing with slack in the fleet?

Because it kinda sounds like they got 5 good hard years out of the 12 762s for the Amazon flying, but those leases might not be renewed (upgauging to 763s perhaps)

From what I was told, the time and cost of the aft bulkhead replacement didn't warrant the work. 792 was dry leased to DHL, not Amazon.

With the uncertainty over future DHL use of various parts of ABX's fleet, it makes sense to mothball it for now. If utilization of the ABX 762 fleet rises in the future, they can always do the bulkhead mod later and put it back into service or send it to a foreign DHL operation or other crap carrier. I'm pretty sure that 739AX wouldn't have had the bulkhead mod done if Amazon hadn't come along.

To have Boeing quarterback the mod, the price is gonna be somewhere between $800K and $1mm. AMES can do the thing in-house -- I think they're still the only non-Boeing-contracted MRO to have ever done one, and they have now done a few -- which should cut the net cost because any profit still redounds to the overall ATSG enterprise. So if they come up with a customer that will lease the thing at a rate that allows them to amortize the repair, they will likely go for it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rcdq9sacQQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lfq-9F3rrcs

wjcandee wrote:

With the uncertainty over future DHL use of various parts of ABX's fleet, it makes sense to mothball it for now. If utilization of the ABX 762 fleet rises in the future, they can always do the bulkhead mod later and put it back into service or send it to a foreign DHL operation or other crap carrier. I'm pretty sure that 739AX wouldn't have had the bulkhead mod done if Amazon hadn't come along.

To have Boeing quarterback the mod, the price is gonna be somewhere between $800K and $1mm. AMES can do the thing in-house -- I think they're still the only non-Boeing-contracted MRO to have ever done one, and they have now done a few -- which should cut the net cost because any profit still redounds to the overall ATSG enterprise. So if they come up with a customer that will lease the thing at a rate that allows them to amortize the repair, they will likely go for it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rcdq9sacQQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lfq-9F3rrcs

I think if ATSG found it beneficial to service 792 and make a profit, they could perform the work. However, in ATSG's 8K SEC filing, they projected to lose a 767-200 between March 31 and December 31. ATSG are also projected to have 10 additional 767-300s in service by the end of the year.

Agreed. Interestingly, they also apparently are going to transition 4 more aircraft this year from dry-lease/CMI status to simple dry-lease status. I assume that those are going to be coming from ABX and either going to another US cargo airline (like Kalitta or Atlas) or instead being offshored to another DHL contractor in Europe or the Middle East.

Looks as though N1013A is getting delivered to Atlas after conversion from an Atlas passenger bird ex N661GT.

Haven't seen this mentioned, but according to HNL RareBirds, HA has brought LN 136 (N594HA) back into revenue service due to delays in receiving new A321s (fallout from the most recent PW1000G snag.)

The third and final ex-JAL frame to UPS N362UP operated as UPS9510 GYR-ANC-QPG to start conversion on May 1st.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N362UP

Intrestering that N363UP and N362UP are being done in QPG while N364UP is being done in TPE. On another note, does anyone have an idea when the 4 new 767's for UPS will be delivered? I know in the press release for the order it said by the end of 2022 for all the 748's and 767's.

Mp1: QPG is the main conversion line for the BCF (ST Aero). TPE is the new-ish extra line (Evergreen). I assume that the frames were allocated between the two because that's where the open slots were, and they could be done faster. At the end of the day, all 3 aircraft will be BCFs.

HNLPointShoot wrote:

Haven't seen this mentioned, but according to HNL RareBirds, HA has brought LN 136 (N594HA) back into revenue service due to delays in receiving new A321s (fallout from the most recent PW1000G snag.)

The reports of HA's last 767-300 flight were then "premature". Reminds me of the Mark Twain quote. Hope this bird gets more than a short reprieve.

CX747 wrote:

HNLPointShoot wrote:

Haven't seen this mentioned, but according to HNL RareBirds, HA has brought LN 136 (N594HA) back into revenue service due to delays in receiving new A321s (fallout from the most recent PW1000G snag.)

The reports of HA's last 767-300 flight were then "premature". Reminds me of the Mark Twain quote. Hope this bird gets more than a short reprieve.

Not really premature. It indeed retired from the fleet and was sent to its new owners to be scrapped. Literally within days of that, the AD for the PW engines was announced and not knowing exactly how it would affect HAL long term, they reacted swiftly and stopped the deactivation process of the airplane. The expensive decision was made to bring it back into service but a C check and other mx had to be performed first. In the meantime, the summer schedule was reworked and a few flights eliminated, some upgaged and some downgaged, accounting for 594 re-entering the fleet. Fast forward several weeks and the AD was resolved and 321neo deliveries were scheduled to resume. 594 will likely retire (again) from HAL service in January 2019, with the rest of the few remaining 767s in the fleet at that point. None of the 767s have a long term future at the airline. In hindsight, IMO, bringing back 594 was not necessary. But with so much immediate uncertainty with the 321neo deliveries, HAL had to make a quick decision and commit to it for schedule integrity in the busiest season of the year. As the 321neo deliveries pick up their pace (8 more before the end of 2018) 594 will likely be used less and less and be more of a spare.

So can I assume that this is/was not one of the birds that UAL is getting from HA?

audidudi wrote:

So can I assume that this is/was not one of the birds that UAL is getting from HA?

Correct. UAL is getting 767-300ERs from HA. The frame in question here is a straight -300

audidudi wrote:

So can I assume that this is/was not one of the birds that UAL is getting from HA?

Indeed. As mentioned, UAL is getting 767-300ER's. In fact. they're getting the 3 newest ones HAL operates with the Boeing signature interiors, winglets and PW engines.

I just read SBA Airlines folded back in Jan 2018, they used to have several B767-300ER in their fleet:
YV528T Boeing 767-3P6(ER) 29.6 Years
N224AT Boeing 767-3Y0(ER) 26.8 Years
N334AT Boeing 767-3Y0(ER) 23.0 Years
YV545T Boeing 767-3T8(ER) 31.4 Years

Will any of these be picked up for conversion?

juliuswong wrote:

I just read SBA Airlines folded back in Jan 2018, they used to have several B767-300ER in their fleet:
YV528T Boeing 767-3P6(ER) 29.6 Years
N224AT Boeing 767-3Y0(ER) 26.8 Years
N334AT Boeing 767-3Y0(ER) 23.0 Years
YV545T Boeing 767-3T8(ER) 31.4 Years

Will any of these be picked up for conversion?

N334AT is scrapped, N224AT has been stored at GYR since 2014, so most probably dismantled aswell.
YV528T & YV545T are reported to be stored at MEX. One is 30, the other one 32 years old, so in my eyes no chance to see them flying again.
They will most probably end up being scrapped for their parts aswell.

Looks like Kalitta picked up another 763ER, an ex-Transaero bird. They registered N765CK to SN26238.

YORK wrote:

Looks like Kalitta picked up another 763ER, an ex-Transaero bird. They registered N765CK to SN26238.

Well, 764CK is wrapping-up conversion at MMEX, so this is good timing. The IAI/Bedek operation there (at Mexicana MRO) only has room in the hangar for one 767 at a time, so maybe this frame will be the next one in there. Mexicana MRO has been turning around conversions as fast as 4.5 months, so figure as soon as 3 weeks from today (5/23/18) for induction of the next one.

wjcandee wrote:

hkcanadaexpat wrote:

N662GT (Atlas Air) was delivered to @MZJ (for painting) on 3/22 following refurbishment @HHN. This is a passenger-configured aircraft for Atlas Air's charter business. LN 595. 1995-build. Originally delivered to Martinair. Most recently flown by VIM Airlines.

Actually, it seems like it was headed to TUS, then diverted to AVQ (not MZJ). But maybe the flight trackers are wrong. Marana Aviation Services at MZJ does do painting, but typically Atlas has used either Premier or Leading Edge to do the painting, so it would be unusual for it to be painted at MZJ. Possible, though.

Guess we'll see.

Premier Aviation is closing the doors. Last Atlas aircraft i seen there was N1217A over a year ago.

Premier Aviation is closing the doors. Last Atlas aircraft i seen there was N1217A over a year ago.[/quote]

Sorry, I should have clarified, The Premier Aviation facility in Rome NY that Atlas used is shutting down.

Yep. Got it. I saw the article in the upstate paper just like yesterday.

That's interesting insofar as JetBlue signed a 5-year deal last January to send Premier RME a bunch of aircraft (E190s) to maintain, along with enough paint work to keep two paint lines busy. But I guess either Premier lost that business or it by itself wasn't enough to keep the operation alilve.

That's a nice 500,000-ish sq ft facility up there, and at least at one time they were the only MRO certificated to work on the 747-8. Now there's basically gonna be no anchor tenant for the RME airport operation. That's too bad, because Upstate sure needs the jobs, and the facility is super-close to JFK/BOS/EWR etc., which is one reason that Atlas and JetBlue were using them... When Atlas stopped using them to paint the Prime Air planes, I wondered what was up. (Premier also painted the first ATSG Prime Air 767-300, the only ABX/ATSG aircraft that I can think of that wasn't painted by Dean Baldwin Painting.)

Dean Baldwin just opened a paint facility last year, I think, at GUS, so it seems unlikely that they would be interested in another expansion facility, and they only do paint, whereas the RME hangars are set up to do everything.

Does anyone know if Kalitta Air will unveil a 767 freighter in full colors?
I've only seen albino birds with small Kalitta sticker.

prchan wrote:

Does anyone know if LA is transferring more 767s to JJ?
I see that a few chilean regs are flying/scheduled to fly routes from Brazil, which seems odd. International flying would be ok, but I would say it is not allowed to fly domestic routes...

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/cc-czu
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/cc-cxk

Nope, they're not AFAIK.
But indeed, LAN 767s are performing several flights from Brazil to Miami. I don't think they're flying domestic.

And 764CK wrapped up conversion in MEX on Wednesday and flew back to YIP and OSC.

Mexicana MRO is averaging 4.25 months on its recent conversions for IAI/Bedek. And to look at the photos of the ex-Transaero aircraft on their test flights after conversion, they did a huge amount of sheet metal work on them -- 762CK in particular. The prompter turnaround as compared to TLV (where they are crazy-busy) has to be making Bedek very happy.

Former Air NZ 767-319ER N930WE (26915, L/N574, ex ZK-NCJ) departed ILN 05 Jun arriving TLV 06 Jun.

N830WE (26913, L/N558, ex ZK-NCI) and N730WE (26912, L/N509, ex ZK-NCG) appear to be still at ASP.

PA515