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Swadian
Posts: 342
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:56 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:44 am

paulsaz wrote:
For today PHX has 168 total mainline flights and 43 are on LAA 737-800.


168 departures, arrivals, or combined? How many daily departures does AA have from PHX including Eagle?

What's the longest Eagle flight? I'm assuming it's with the E-175.
SMS Markgraf
Streamliner Lines Motorcoach Scheduler
 
paulsaz
Posts: 35
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:21 am

168 mainline departures. 262 mainline plus Eagle. Not sure of the longest RJ route--could be PHX-YEG 1375 miles YV CRJ-900, but no E175's in PHX. I think at one time HP had 199 mainline and 199 express departures from PHX.
 
Swadian
Posts: 342
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:47 pm

paulsaz wrote:
168 mainline departures. 262 mainline plus Eagle. Not sure of the longest RJ route--could be PHX-YEG 1375 miles YV CRJ-900, but no E175's in PHX. I think at one time HP had 199 mainline and 199 express departures from PHX.


PHX-YEG has got to be up there; what about the longest Eagle flight from any hub? DFW-YYC? DFW-GEG?
SMS Markgraf
Streamliner Lines Motorcoach Scheduler
 
OB1504
Posts: 3323
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:15 pm

What happened to the red stripe on the 737 winglets? Is AA still doing that?

Some repainted aircraft got them, but the last new 737NG deliveries didn’t have them, nor does the 737 MAX (which, IMO, really needs them for the part that protrudes downward).

 
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reffado
Posts: 558
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:47 am

OB1504 wrote:
What happened to the red stripe on the 737 winglets? Is AA still doing that?

Some repainted aircraft got them, but the last new 737NG deliveries didn’t have them, nor does the 737 MAX (which, IMO, really needs them for the part that protrudes downward).



Wow. I can’t answer the question; but I have not seen a single 737 with that stripe around. And I see a lot of them at MIA. Shame, it looks good!
 
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American 767
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:59 am

reffado wrote:
OB1504 wrote:
What happened to the red stripe on the 737 winglets? Is AA still doing that?

Some repainted aircraft got them, but the last new 737NG deliveries didn’t have them, nor does the 737 MAX (which, IMO, really needs them for the part that protrudes downward).



Wow. I can’t answer the question; but I have not seen a single 737 with that stripe around. And I see a lot of them at MIA. Shame, it looks good!


Me neither. The only thingI noticed is the disappearance of the aa.com titles on the winglets even on N921NN the only 737 in the fleet keeping the old livery. All the winglets of the 737s are now plain gray, from what I have seen so far.
Ben Soriano
 
bpat777
Posts: 625
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:33 am

There are/were a handful of 32B's with the red tips as well.
 
ayoungblood2
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Re: New AA painted aircraft - 2017

Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:09 am

Sooner787 wrote:
Wish AA would send a few A330's to DFW ..... :)


The real question is when will AA send a widebody that isn't an A330 to CLT on a regular basis :lol: As a CLT spotter, it would be great to get a few 787s and 777s there. Heck, RDU even has the 777 to LHR!
 
OB1504
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:29 am

reffado wrote:
Wow. I can’t answer the question; but I have not seen a single 737 with that stripe around. And I see a lot of them at MIA. Shame, it looks good!


There only seems to be a handful but I did walk under one to get to work today.

American 767 wrote:
Me neither. The only thingI noticed is the disappearance of the aa.com titles on the winglets even on N921NN the only 737 in the fleet keeping the old livery. All the winglets of the 737s are now plain gray, from what I have seen so far.


They are, yet interestingly some of the 767s still have the AA.com titles on the winglets, like N350AN.



On an unrelated note, I was searching for photos of N352PS to use as an example for a new 737NG without the red stripes and learned that AA reused the registration from a PSA BAe-146. I wonder if that was intentional or just an accident. They also used N9002U for an A319, which was formerly a United 737 that was briefly operated by America West!

 
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Boeing778X
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:09 am

Swadian wrote:
paulsaz wrote:
For today PHX has 168 total mainline flights and 43 are on LAA 737-800.


168 departures, arrivals, or combined? How many daily departures does AA have from PHX including Eagle?

What's the longest Eagle flight? I'm assuming it's with the E-175.


The longest Eagle flight is DFW-YUL. The return can get up to 4hr45min.
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
AA321T
Posts: 84
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:49 pm

OB1504 wrote:
What happened to the red stripe on the 737 winglets? Is AA still doing that?

Some repainted aircraft got them, but the last new 737NG deliveries didn’t have them, nor does the 737 MAX (which, IMO, really needs them for the part that protrudes downward).


The red tips are painted on a few birds as a test to see if they help reduce ground collisions between the winglets and other items.
 
Sooner787
Posts: 2193
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:49 pm

AA321T wrote:
OB1504 wrote:
What happened to the red stripe on the 737 winglets? Is AA still doing that?

Some repainted aircraft got them, but the last new 737NG deliveries didn’t have them, nor does the 737 MAX (which, IMO, really needs them for the part that protrudes downward).


The red tips are painted on a few birds as a test to see if they help reduce ground collisions between the winglets and other items.


I can't believe AA won't put some red paint of the wingtips of the Max8's. In poor visibility, the new AA paint already looks
as haze gray as any USAF cargo jet.
 
alasizon
Topic Author
Posts: 1307
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:52 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
AA321T wrote:
OB1504 wrote:
What happened to the red stripe on the 737 winglets? Is AA still doing that?

Some repainted aircraft got them, but the last new 737NG deliveries didn’t have them, nor does the 737 MAX (which, IMO, really needs them for the part that protrudes downward).


The red tips are painted on a few birds as a test to see if they help reduce ground collisions between the winglets and other items.


I can't believe AA won't put some red paint of the wingtips of the Max8's. In poor visibility, the new AA paint already looks
as haze gray as any USAF cargo jet.


The MAX would certainly benefit from them on the lower portion (if for nothing more than as a heads up to tugs driving under the wingtips). I personally can't see how painting the upper tip of the winglet helps any; its rarely the upper portion that makes contact with something else.
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
Swadian
Posts: 342
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Re: New AA painted aircraft - 2017

Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:25 pm

ayoungblood2 wrote:
Sooner787 wrote:
Wish AA would send a few A330's to DFW ..... :)


The real question is when will AA send a widebody that isn't an A330 to CLT on a regular basis :lol: As a CLT spotter, it would be great to get a few 787s and 777s there. Heck, RDU even has the 777 to LHR!


Considering all the congestion at CLT (cough, cough), perhaps some fatter units are needed... :duck:
SMS Markgraf
Streamliner Lines Motorcoach Scheduler
 
ayoungblood2
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:48 pm

Re: New AA painted aircraft - 2017

Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:31 pm

Swadian wrote:
ayoungblood2 wrote:
Sooner787 wrote:
Wish AA would send a few A330's to DFW ..... :)


The real question is when will AA send a widebody that isn't an A330 to CLT on a regular basis :lol: As a CLT spotter, it would be great to get a few 787s and 777s there. Heck, RDU even has the 777 to LHR!


Considering all the congestion at CLT (cough, cough), perhaps some fatter units are needed... :duck:


I 100% agree with that statement. When the concourse A expansion opens up hopefully there will be more gates capable of handling heavies. Unfortunately a lot of the gates at the A, B, and C concourses are just too small.
 
AA321T
Posts: 84
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:47 pm

alasizon wrote:
Sooner787 wrote:
AA321T wrote:
The red tips are painted on a few birds as a test to see if they help reduce ground collisions between the winglets and other items.


I can't believe AA won't put some red paint of the wingtips of the Max8's. In poor visibility, the new AA paint already looks
as haze gray as any USAF cargo jet.


The MAX would certainly benefit from them on the lower portion (if for nothing more than as a heads up to tugs driving under the wingtips). I personally can't see how painting the upper tip of the winglet helps any; its rarely the upper portion that makes contact with something else.

I agree, the MAX is one aircraft that could benefit from having some sort of paint on the wingtips.
 
Swadian
Posts: 342
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Re: New AA painted aircraft - 2017

Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:32 pm

ayoungblood2 wrote:
Swadian wrote:
ayoungblood2 wrote:

The real question is when will AA send a widebody that isn't an A330 to CLT on a regular basis :lol: As a CLT spotter, it would be great to get a few 787s and 777s there. Heck, RDU even has the 777 to LHR!


Considering all the congestion at CLT (cough, cough), perhaps some fatter units are needed... :duck:


I 100% agree with that statement. When the concourse A expansion opens up hopefully there will be more gates capable of handling heavies. Unfortunately a lot of the gates at the A, B, and C concourses are just too small.


Can AA expand DFW or ORD to take pressure off CLT? Right now I have CLT blacklisted due to terrible taxi times and only fly through it when absolutely necessary.
SMS Markgraf
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alasizon
Topic Author
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Re: New AA painted aircraft - 2017

Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:40 pm

Swadian wrote:

Can AA expand DFW or ORD to take pressure off CLT? Right now I have CLT blacklisted due to terrible taxi times and only fly through it when absolutely necessary.


Yes and no, neither have much room to expand. But also, you can better arrange connecting flows to certain markets to take pressure of a given hub during a certain bank. As an example, there have been some connecting flows that overlap between DFW & PHX that have been rearranged to give each hub a bit of breathing room during different times of the day (PHX AM & DFW mid-afternoon)
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tom02
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Re: New AA painted aircraft - 2017

Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:41 am

ayoungblood2 wrote:
Swadian wrote:
ayoungblood2 wrote:

The real question is when will AA send a widebody that isn't an A330 to CLT on a regular basis :lol: As a CLT spotter, it would be great to get a few 787s and 777s there. Heck, RDU even has the 777 to LHR!


Considering all the congestion at CLT (cough, cough), perhaps some fatter units are needed... :duck:


I 100% agree with that statement. When the concourse A expansion opens up hopefully there will be more gates capable of handling heavies. Unfortunately a lot of the gates at the A, B, and C concourses are just too small.


B can handle 4 heavies at the same time if needed! Two heavy gates on B are used during the summer usually for CDG and BCN. AA will gain extra gates on A concourse in June once A North is open. Nasa is actually studying the ground congestion but lord knows when that'll be done and if it help. But i would love if AA gave CLT regularly scheduled Boeing heavies instead of the occasional diversion or charter.
 
justplanenutz
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:12 pm

AA finally provided a fleet update though 2020 with their 8k today: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zht ... p=irol-sec

Highlights:

E190--all 20 retired 2019
MD80--19 retired this year, remaining 26 in 2019
738--12 retirements in 2019, 33 in 2020
320--no more retirements planned
757--no more retirements until 2020, when 10 of 34 are retired
767--no more retirement planned
333--all 9 retired in 2020
359--first 2 arrive in 2020
E140--only 49 reactivated, staying through 2020
CR2--35 remaining stay thorugh 2020
E175--6 new in 2018, 5 more in 2019 (which I think are new)
Last edited by justplanenutz on Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 1675
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:21 pm

justplanenutz wrote:
AA finally provide a fleet update though 2020 with their 8k today: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zht ... p=irol-sec

Highlights:

E190--all 20 retired 2019
MD80--19 retired this year, remaining 26 in 2019
738--12 retirements in 2019, 33 in 2020
320--no morer retirements planned
757--no more retirements until 2020, when 10 of 34 are retired
767--no more retirement planned
333--all 9 retired in 2020
359--first 2 arrive in 2020
E140--on 49 reactived, staying through 2020
CR2--35 remaining stay thorugh 2020
E175--6 new in 018, 5 more in 2019 (which I think are new)


A lot of interesting bits there, and gaps.

1) 738 retirements - not sure we had heard about those before, but they are significant. I assumed more 320s would go before the 1st 738.
2) E140s/CR2s - what is going to replace the 84 jets from 2020 on?
3) Widebodies look a bit short in 2019-2020, might we see some more 787s?

Frankly, there is a lot of room for additional orders in there with a shrinking fleet in 2019 and 2020 (mainline alone).
 
alasizon
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:38 pm

justplanenutz wrote:
AA finally provided a fleet update though 2020 with their 8k today: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zht ... p=irol-sec

Highlights:

E190--all 20 retired 2019
MD80--19 retired this year, remaining 26 in 2019
738--12 retirements in 2019, 33 in 2020
320--no more retirements planned
757--no more retirements until 2020, when 10 of 34 are retired
767--no more retirement planned
333--all 9 retired in 2020
359--first 2 arrive in 2020
E140--only 49 reactivated, staying through 2020
CR2--35 remaining stay thorugh 2020
E175--6 new in 2018, 5 more in 2019 (which I think are new)


Also, adding 8 CR7s in 2018 (only to remove 7 in 2019).

I'm most surprised about the early 738 retirements. With the current fleet plan, it seems hard to believe that capacity will continue growth at about 3% per year while decreasing the overall number of airplanes. Something has to change there because once you get past 2018, the capacity growth couldn't possibly keep up.
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FSDan
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:52 pm

So from 2018-2020 they'll be retiring 45 M80s + 45 738s (and the 20 E90s). At the same time, there should be almost 100 more 7M8 deliveries through 2021, and the 321neos will start arriving in 2019. With seats being added to the 738 fleet, perhaps AA is counting on growth coming via larger aircraft rather than added frequency.

On the widebody side, it seems prudent that the 333s are being retained a bit longer than initially planned (and that no more 763s are being retired imminently). That should mean that the remaining 789 deliveries can fund some added growth.
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justplanenutz
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:20 pm

[quote="FSDan"On the widebody side, it seems prudent that the 333s are being retained a bit longer than initially planned (and that no more 763s are being retired imminently). That should mean that the remaining 789 deliveries can fund some added growth.[/quote]

Wonder if that means they will put some more lipstick on the 763s, especially the 11 oldest that do not have the 777 interiors in back.

Also surprised that they are retiring the oldest 738s before the last 320s, which are about the same age.
 
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Narfish641
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:36 pm

justplanenutz wrote:
AA finally provided a fleet update though 2020 with their 8k today: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zht ... p=irol-sec

Highlights:

E190--all 20 retired 2019
MD80--19 retired this year, remaining 26 in 2019
738--12 retirements in 2019, 33 in 2020
320--no more retirements planned
757--no more retirements until 2020, when 10 of 34 are retired
767--no more retirement planned
333--all 9 retired in 2020
359--first 2 arrive in 2020
E140--only 49 reactivated, staying through 2020
CR2--35 remaining stay thorugh 2020
E175--6 new in 2018, 5 more in 2019 (which I think are new)


Pretty interesting. I can see why they want to retire their 737-800 fleet since it's reaching almost 20 years. The average for the older batch is a around 17-19 years old. I can see they a are pushing their 757-200 and 767-300ER for a little while longer. But I know they are gonna have to plan a retirement for the 767-300ER soon. But I also think it's pretty good for those early frames to rack up those hours and cycles for their money worth.
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ahj2000
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:19 pm

My question, why does AA want 140s instead of CR2s?
-Andrés Juánez
 
sagechan
Posts: 167
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:25 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
My question, why does AA want 140s instead of CR2s?


They are owned and stored, low cost to bring back into service as needed.
717, 733, 734, 738, 744, 752, 763, 772, 789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, MD88, CRJ, CR7, CR9, DH8, DH3, S340, ER4, E170, E175, E190/CO, NW, US, AC, NH, AA, UA, DL, WN, WS, SK, VY, LA, QF
 
Swadian
Posts: 342
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:38 pm

justplanenutz wrote:
AA finally provided a fleet update though 2020 with their 8k today: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zht ... p=irol-sec

Highlights:

E190--all 20 retired 2019
MD80--19 retired this year, remaining 26 in 2019
738--12 retirements in 2019, 33 in 2020
320--no more retirements planned
757--no more retirements until 2020, when 10 of 34 are retired
767--no more retirement planned
333--all 9 retired in 2020
359--first 2 arrive in 2020
E140--only 49 reactivated, staying through 2020
CR2--35 remaining stay thorugh 2020
E175--6 new in 2018, 5 more in 2019 (which I think are new)


Interesting observations:
1) 738 early retirement?
2) 757 seems to be staying longer than planned. The 10 retirements in 2020 are probably all 75H. Looks like AA has no retirement plan for the 75L.
3) 767 seems to be staying longer than usual and being preferred over A333 for engine reasons?
4) Might we see an RJ shortage if all the ERD and CR2 get retired?

Perhaps AA wishes to take additional A321s and 789s?
SMS Markgraf
Streamliner Lines Motorcoach Scheduler
 
brooklynchris13
Posts: 220
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:48 pm

alasizon wrote:
justplanenutz wrote:
AA finally provided a fleet update though 2020 with their 8k today: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zht ... p=irol-sec

Highlights:

E190--all 20 retired 2019
MD80--19 retired this year, remaining 26 in 2019
738--12 retirements in 2019, 33 in 2020
320--no more retirements planned
757--no more retirements until 2020, when 10 of 34 are retired
767--no more retirement planned
333--all 9 retired in 2020
359--first 2 arrive in 2020
E140--only 49 reactivated, staying through 2020
CR2--35 remaining stay thorugh 2020
E175--6 new in 2018, 5 more in 2019 (which I think are new)


Also, adding 8 CR7s in 2018 (only to remove 7 in 2019).

I'm most surprised about the early 738 retirements. With the current fleet plan, it seems hard to believe that capacity will continue growth at about 3% per year while decreasing the overall number of airplanes. Something has to change there because once you get past 2018, the capacity growth couldn't possibly keep up.


Some quick math on the capacity increases for AA reflected by this plan:
Total mainline seat count:
2017 YE 167,540
2018 YE 169,342 =+1%
2019 YE 174,116 = +2.7%
2020 YE 172,181 = - 1.25% or so

Pretty clear they are looking to add seats for growth instead of frequencies where possible which also seems to reveal thinking that fuel prices may go back up. There is also some flexibility to slow down adding seats to the 738s If needed, which is a pretty easy way to control capacity growth, especially when compared to aircraft orders.

On a related note, would certainly appear there is the development of a "What will replace the international 757s, remaining 767s and A330s" topic that we can banter about on here for awhile. Frame for frame that would be 57 aircraft which nicely matches (almost exactly) the number of 787 options remaining.

Going to be an interesting year to watch the AA fleet and see what actually transpires.
"Be the change you want to see in the world" (mg)
 
alasizon
Topic Author
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:26 pm

Swadian wrote:
Interesting observations:
1) 738 early retirement?
2) 757 seems to be staying longer than planned. The 10 retirements in 2020 are probably all 75H. Looks like AA has no retirement plan for the 75L.
3) 767 seems to be staying longer than usual and being preferred over A333 for engine reasons?
4) Might we see an RJ shortage if all the ERD and CR2 get retired?

Perhaps AA wishes to take additional A321s and 789s?


One of the things that was stated on the earnings call today was that the fleet plan represents orders that are currently committed and that there is no drop from the 945-960 Mainline fleet range expected. It made it readily apparent on the call that there were on-going widebody discussions with A&B regarding the future widebody plan. The options that were mentioned on the call:

A) Keep the 350s and use them as 333 replacements
B) Convert them to 339s
C) Take additional 789s

The biggest concern was obviously adding another fleet type to the mix. It wouldn't surprise me to see the 350 order converted to either 319 or 321 NEOs. The 789 seems to work really well for AA and their INTL services. The 332s could be moved into domestic service and would provide a "newer" replacement for the 767s without having to buy new aircraft.

Re: RJ shortage, I highly doubt that there will ever be an RJ shortage. There are a lot of CRJ-700s coming off contract at EV (for DL) so there are plenty available (and new builds can still be ordered) and the 145 is going to be the baseline 50 seater for AA for the considerable future. For upgauging purposes, the CR7 is still considered a small RJ at 65 seats but thats still a 30% increase in seats.
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
User avatar
American 767
Posts: 4150
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:20 pm

Swadian wrote:

Interesting observations:
1) 738 early retirement?
2) 757 seems to be staying longer than planned. The 10 retirements in 2020 are probably all 75H. Looks like AA has no retirement plan for the 75L.
3) 767 seems to be staying longer than usual and being preferred over A333 for engine reasons?
4) Might we see an RJ shortage if all the ERD and CR2 get retired?

Perhaps AA wishes to take additional A321s and 789s?


Responses to your comments:

1. Yes. The first batch of 75 738s that were delivered in the late 90s/early 2000s is now approaching the 20 year old mark, so it makes sense to plan the retirement of those, as more MAX are coming. I knew for a long time the 738 retirement would start in a not too distant future. The rest of the 738 fleet will stay, as it is not even a decade old.

2. Yes. The 34 remaining 757s are International 757s which were expected to stay in the fleet longer than the domestic 757s would. I knew that during this year 2018 there would be no further 757 retirement. It looks like the 10 757s they are planning to phase out are, as you mention, the 75Hs which are ex-US. The good news is we might still see International 757s flying on TATL flights out of JFK and PHL for a while. It would be nice if JFK-CDG goes back to the 757, and make it 2x daily to offer more flexibility to customers flying to/from CDG. On the other hand, the MIA hub is likely to still see the 757 for a while, which would be flown on South America routes such as MIA-BSB, MIA-UIO and MIA-CCS. This being said I would expect the domestic route JFK-MIA to still see the 757 at least 2x daily for the next two years if not longer.

3. I believe that the 767 fleet is now down to 23. Those probably received the new J Class product already. The youngest 767s, 9 of them, are only 15 years old so they still have at least five more years ahead of them. I would expect the last 767 to leave by 2025 at the latest.

4. I believe that they have now quite a large fleet of E-145s and E-175s to cover the loss of CR2s and ERDs. They have CR7s, and the CR9s can cover the loss of the E190s that are leaving next year.

Additional A321s? They have 100 321NEOs coming, the first one won't arrive before next year. The deliveries of the 321OEOs are now completed.
Additional 789s? Yes, if they decide not to take the A350s that were previously ordered by US. or if they decide to expand to new markets. If they expand on the Pacific Rim, Australia and the South Pacific then yes the 789 is the right airplane for them. LAX is now a 787 base.
Ben Soriano
 
aaflyer222
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:34 pm

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:51 pm

With only 35 cr2 left at the end of the year, does that mean that skyWest cr2 flying is ending? Also, when are the dash leaving this year?
74m, 772, 763, 764, 752, 733, 734, 738, 739, a319, a320, a321, s80, m88, m90, e190, e170, e175, e140, e145, cr2, cr7, cr9, dh1, dh3, dh4, at72, s340
 
alasizon
Topic Author
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:00 pm

aaflyer222 wrote:
With only 35 cr2 left at the end of the year, does that mean that skyWest cr2 flying is ending? Also, when are the dash leaving this year?


The pro-rate CR2s (ICT, MKE, YUL, SGU etc) are not included in the fleet count. I believe most of the ones that will be leaving will be the PSA ones since Piedmont can fill the capacity back east with 145s instead.

The DH3s should leave just before the beginning of summer IIRC.
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
hkcanadaexpat
Posts: 2672
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:33 am

Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:13 pm

American 767 wrote:
Swadian wrote:
3. I believe that the 767 fleet is now down to 23. Those probably received the new J Class product already. The youngest 767s, 9 of them, are only 15 years old so they still have at least five more years ahead of them. I would expect the last 767 to leave by 2025 at the latest.

Guys - there are 24 763s in the fleet. The two that are in BFM are going through heavy checks and life extension programs to meet AA's desire announced last year to keep the fleet longer than initially anticipated. They are not retired nor being prepared for cargo conversion.
 
FSDan
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:47 pm

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
American 767 wrote:
Swadian wrote:
3. I believe that the 767 fleet is now down to 23. Those probably received the new J Class product already. The youngest 767s, 9 of them, are only 15 years old so they still have at least five more years ahead of them. I would expect the last 767 to leave by 2025 at the latest.

Guys - there are 24 763s in the fleet. The two that are in BFM are going through heavy checks and life extension programs to meet AA's desire announced last year to keep the fleet longer than initially anticipated. They are not retired nor being prepared for cargo conversion.


I'd assume there will be a decent amount of domestic flying on the 763s this summer that hasn't been loaded yet, given that the already-loaded international flying only requires 14 frames. I know the AA 767s aren't the most reliable, but surely there won't be 10 frames sitting around as spares or in maintenance...
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jplatts
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:50 pm

Swadian wrote:
What's the longest Eagle flight? I'm assuming it's with the E-175.


The longest Eagle flight in the contiguous U.S. is MIA-MSP, which is 1501 miles, and this route is actually operated on E175 regional jets.
 
jgcotter
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:57 am

alasizon wrote:
aaflyer222 wrote:
With only 35 cr2 left at the end of the year, does that mean that skyWest cr2 flying is ending? Also, when are the dash leaving this year?


The pro-rate CR2s (ICT, MKE, YUL, SGU etc) are not included in the fleet count. I believe most of the ones that will be leaving will be the PSA ones since Piedmont can fill the capacity back east with 145s instead.

The DH3s should leave just before the beginning of summer IIRC.

I’d like to offer an alternative theory in the spirit of friendly debate; The 33 CR2s to be reduced in 2018 could represent the Air Whiskey and SkyWest CR2s with the 35 remaining CR2s being the AA-owned PSA jets. This could result in an end game of Envoy having 150 x E175, PSA having 150 x CRJ of different sizes and Piedmont having 150 or so E145s and E140s. This would be in addition to the 85 Republic E175s and 64 Mesa CR9s. My understanding is that the last of the Piedmont Dash fleet retire right after the July 4th holiday IIRC.
 
USAirKid
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:47 am

FSDan wrote:
So from 2018-2020 they'll be retiring 45 M80s + 45 738s (and the 20 E90s). At the same time, there should be almost 100 more 7M8 deliveries through 2021, and the 321neos will start arriving in 2019. With seats being added to the 738 fleet, perhaps AA is counting on growth coming via larger aircraft rather than added frequency.


The wisdom of this is that it slightly reduces the number of pilots they'll need to move the same number of people. There is the looming pilot shortage that might eventually come, and if you need less pilots you're better prepared for the future.
 
n7371f
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:13 am

What's the plan to synchronize the absurd differential in the CR9 and CR7 fleets? I believe there are 6 different configurations among the group: 3 for each CR9 and 3 for CR7. The CR7's coming from SkyWest and ExpressJet are merely seat cover changes while native CR7's have 9F in Eagle configs. And the CR9 fleet, what a mess. The early Mesa HP CR9's are horrendous inside with a mere 9F while newer deliveries are F12. Equip swaps make for quite a fun time!
 
Swadian
Posts: 342
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:58 am

alasizon wrote:
Swadian wrote:
One of the things that was stated on the earnings call today was that the fleet plan represents orders that are currently committed and that there is no drop from the 945-960 Mainline fleet range expected. It made it readily apparent on the call that there were on-going widebody discussions with A&B regarding the future widebody plan. The options that were mentioned on the call:

A) Keep the 350s and use them as 333 replacements
B) Convert them to 339s
C) Take additional 789s

The biggest concern was obviously adding another fleet type to the mix. It wouldn't surprise me to see the 350 order converted to either 319 or 321 NEOs. The 789 seems to work really well for AA and their INTL services. The 332s could be moved into domestic service and would provide a "newer" replacement for the 767s without having to buy new aircraft.

Re: RJ shortage, I highly doubt that there will ever be an RJ shortage. There are a lot of CRJ-700s coming off contract at EV (for DL) so there are plenty available (and new builds can still be ordered) and the 145 is going to be the baseline 50 seater for AA for the considerable future. For upgauging purposes, the CR7 is still considered a small RJ at 65 seats but thats still a 30% increase in seats.


American 767 wrote:
Swadian wrote:

Interesting observations:
1) 738 early retirement?
2) 757 seems to be staying longer than planned. The 10 retirements in 2020 are probably all 75H. Looks like AA has no retirement plan for the 75L.
3) 767 seems to be staying longer than usual and being preferred over A333 for engine reasons?
4) Might we see an RJ shortage if all the ERD and CR2 get retired?

Perhaps AA wishes to take additional A321s and 789s?


Responses to your comments:

1. Yes. The first batch of 75 738s that were delivered in the late 90s/early 2000s is now approaching the 20 year old mark, so it makes sense to plan the retirement of those, as more MAX are coming. I knew for a long time the 738 retirement would start in a not too distant future. The rest of the 738 fleet will stay, as it is not even a decade old.

2. Yes. The 34 remaining 757s are International 757s which were expected to stay in the fleet longer than the domestic 757s would. I knew that during this year 2018 there would be no further 757 retirement. It looks like the 10 757s they are planning to phase out are, as you mention, the 75Hs which are ex-US. The good news is we might still see International 757s flying on TATL flights out of JFK and PHL for a while. It would be nice if JFK-CDG goes back to the 757, and make it 2x daily to offer more flexibility to customers flying to/from CDG. On the other hand, the MIA hub is likely to still see the 757 for a while, which would be flown on South America routes such as MIA-BSB, MIA-UIO and MIA-CCS. This being said I would expect the domestic route JFK-MIA to still see the 757 at least 2x daily for the next two years if not longer.

3. I believe that the 767 fleet is now down to 23. Those probably received the new J Class product already. The youngest 767s, 9 of them, are only 15 years old so they still have at least five more years ahead of them. I would expect the last 767 to leave by 2025 at the latest.

4. I believe that they have now quite a large fleet of E-145s and E-175s to cover the loss of CR2s and ERDs. They have CR7s, and the CR9s can cover the loss of the E190s that are leaving next year.

Additional A321s? They have 100 321NEOs coming, the first one won't arrive before next year. The deliveries of the 321OEOs are now completed.
Additional 789s? Yes, if they decide not to take the A350s that were previously ordered by US. or if they decide to expand to new markets. If they expand on the Pacific Rim, Australia and the South Pacific then yes the 789 is the right airplane for them. LAX is now a 787 base.


Looking at the fleet plan it seems we may see existing 788s, 77Es, and A332s eventually replacing the 763s with their routes being upgauged (or downgauged to 752) and 789s moved in to fill the void left by the A333s. Meanwhile additional A321s could take over some 763 domestic flying. The recent investment in CZ, while small, could signal more transpacific developments, especially as transatlantic yields are pressured by ULCCs and the continental dominance of UA and DL JVs (for example, many AA TATL routes are seasonal).

AA has been using A319s on Latin American routes; the possibility of an order for A319neos to boost this poorly-selling Airbus model could overcome negotiating difficulties with the A359 order.
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jgcotter
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:06 pm

CR7 N526EA is en route from SAW to DAY for transfer from Envoy to PSA. 36 CR7 on property now at PSA.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N526EA
 
osupoke07
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Re: New AA painted aircraft - 2017

Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:42 pm

Swadian wrote:
ayoungblood2 wrote:
Swadian wrote:

Considering all the congestion at CLT (cough, cough), perhaps some fatter units are needed... :duck:


I 100% agree with that statement. When the concourse A expansion opens up hopefully there will be more gates capable of handling heavies. Unfortunately a lot of the gates at the A, B, and C concourses are just too small.


Can AA expand DFW or ORD to take pressure off CLT? Right now I have CLT blacklisted due to terrible taxi times and only fly through it when absolutely necessary.


Short term, I think the gate usage at DFW by AA is close to maximum capacity, but I could be wrong there. Long term, DFW absolutely has room for expansion with Terminal F and a potential rebuild of Terminal C. I think the airfield itself is far from reaching movement capacity as well.
MD82, MD83, MD88, B717, B732, B733, B735, B737, B738, B739, B752, B763, B77W, CR2, CR7, CR9, A320
 
alasizon
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:04 am

jgcotter wrote:
alasizon wrote:
The pro-rate CR2s (ICT, MKE, YUL, SGU etc) are not included in the fleet count. I believe most of the ones that will be leaving will be the PSA ones since Piedmont can fill the capacity back east with 145s instead.

The DH3s should leave just before the beginning of summer IIRC.

I’d like to offer an alternative theory in the spirit of friendly debate; The 33 CR2s to be reduced in 2018 could represent the Air Whiskey and SkyWest CR2s with the 35 remaining CR2s being the AA-owned PSA jets. This could result in an end game of Envoy having 150 x E175, PSA having 150 x CRJ of different sizes and Piedmont having 150 or so E145s and E140s. This would be in addition to the 85 Republic E175s and 64 Mesa CR9s. My understanding is that the last of the Piedmont Dash fleet retire right after the July 4th holiday IIRC.


While I'd like to support the idea that the PSA jets are the ones sticking around, PSA hasn't gotten into an ORD base like originally planned and I just don't see them doing that along with increasing the 700 fleet (the transfers should pickup this year).

By my count, there are currently 13 ZW CR2s in the fleet and 14 OO CR2s (not including pro-rate). I estimate that they'll retire all 13 ZW birds, 15 PSA birds and 5 OO birds. OO will likely still continue a few planes in the ORD base as well as the flying to MEI & PIB through DFW. If the SCASD grants for RAP & FMN are granted, that'll bring a CR2 back to PHX as well.

I don't think Mesa will be a long term AA carrier (at least not 64 CR9s), because the 175 is more valuable to AA when it comes to large RJs and OO at least operates the CR7 that can be configured down to a small RJ. Also, I see no way that Piedmont will end up at 150 frames because with consistent 2-3% capacity growth, by the time Piedmont can support a midwest operation to replace the MQ 145s, most of those markets will support CR7s instead. I'd estimate Piedmont will be a 90ish frame operation.
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lightsaber
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:16 am

justplanenutz wrote:
AA finally provided a fleet update though 2020 with their 8k today: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zht ... p=irol-sec

Highlights:

E190--all 20 retired 2019
MD80--19 retired this year, remaining 26 in 2019
738--12 retirements in 2019, 33 in 2020
320--no more retirements planned
757--no more retirements until 2020, when 10 of 34 are retired
767--no more retirement planned
333--all 9 retired in 2020
359--first 2 arrive in 2020
E140--only 49 reactivated, staying through 2020
CR2--35 remaining stay thorugh 2020
E175--6 new in 2018, 5 more in 2019 (which I think are new)

Thank you for a very interesting list. The original 738s were early models. Models that will take more maintenance at 20 years than later 738s, so we shouldn't worry too much.
The MD-80 is fading to the sunset, obviously lower utilization than 738s. So further flying. They keep getting life extended, but due to parts, I don't think later than 2020 and I'm not sure enough could be kept flying to justify the costs of a sub-type for AA.

If TATL 752s are to be retired in 2020, has AA bought A321LRs? :scratchchin:


Boeing778X wrote:
Swadian wrote:
paulsaz wrote:
For today PHX has 168 total mainline flights and 43 are on LAA 737-800.


168 departures, arrivals, or combined? How many daily departures does AA have from PHX including Eagle?

What's the longest Eagle flight? I'm assuming it's with the E-175.


The longest Eagle flight is DFW-YUL. The return can get up to 4hr45min.

Just to note, that is 10nm longer than MIA-MSP which another poster put as the longer (it might be longer block time, but range is really what matters). I'm surprised the range is so short... cest la vie. Obviously cabin weight is higher than I estimated.

LIghtsaber
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OB1504
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:46 am

lightsaber wrote:
If TATL 752s are to be retired in 2020, has AA bought A321LRs? :scratchchin:


There are currently 24 LAA 757s in international configuration and 10 LUS 757s in domestic/Hawaii configuration. I’d wager that the LUS birds are the 10 being retired in 2020 since they’re older than the remaining LAA 757s and their missions can be covered with the A321 or 737 MAX.
 
jgcotter
Posts: 257
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:24 pm

E145 N638AE is en route from SAW to RIC for transfer from Envoy to Piedmont. 38 E145s on property now at Piedmont.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N638AE
 
Tan Flyr
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:41 pm

How many of the original 75 738's are leased? IF so, are those a higher cost lease agreement than other frames? Are there any other significant performance differences in those 75 and any of the next batches of frames?
 
Swadian
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:25 am

What is the longest remaining MD-80 flight? What about ERJ-145?

OB1504 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
If TATL 752s are to be retired in 2020, has AA bought A321LRs? :scratchchin:


There are currently 24 LAA 757s in international configuration and 10 LUS 757s in domestic/Hawaii configuration. I’d wager that the LUS birds are the 10 being retired in 2020 since they’re older than the remaining LAA 757s and their missions can be covered with the A321 or 737 MAX.


That makes sense.
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demkid
Posts: 17
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:00 am

It looks like the last plane in the US livery is now officially out of the AA fleet. N410AW flew from ORF to OKC earlier today as a UA flight. The other 10 Air Wisconsin CRJ-200s in the fleet will be transferred to United in the next couple of weeks.
 
ahj2000
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Re: AA Fleet Updates - 2018

Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:05 am

demkid wrote:
It looks like the last plane in the US livery is now officially out of the AA fleet. N410AW flew from ORF to OKC earlier today as a UA flight. The other 10 Air Wisconsin CRJ-200s in the fleet will be transferred to United in the next couple of weeks.

Damn. End of an era really. Rest In Peace US!
-Andrés Juánez
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