Jetsouth wrote:

And the other ones in storage for over a year are apparently either going to be delivered to BRAATHENS in 2019 or are to be scrapped, depending on who you talk to.

BRAATHENS? I thought that airline was absorbed by SAS a long time ago.

MartijnNL wrote:

Jetsouth wrote:

And the other ones in storage for over a year are apparently either going to be delivered to BRAATHENS in 2019 or are to be scrapped, depending on who you talk to.

BRAATHENS? I thought that airline was absorbed by SAS a long time ago.

He is referring to BRA Braathans Regional Airlines, a virtual airline formed in 2016 which is made up of flights operated by Braathans Regional Airways (formerly Golden Air) and Braatnans Regional Aviation (formerly Malmö Aviation). It’s all a little confusing and convoluted.

[threeid][/threeid]

MartijnNL wrote:

Jetsouth wrote:

And the other ones in storage for over a year are apparently either going to be delivered to BRAATHENS in 2019 or are to be scrapped, depending on who you talk to.

BRAATHENS? I thought that airline was absorbed by SAS a long time ago.

Yes, but not the Swedish part that ended up as Braathens Aviation. That later aqcuired Malmø Aviation and merged with another company. Now they operate under the BRA name, focusing on Swedish domestic, mainly from Stockholm Bromma

I was told that mid course, a customer (not Braathens!) decided to skip the first few (5+?) serials and only take later serials.

Those frames are empty shelves, w/o any systems. (But with wirings - so big / comprehensive retesting required)

FWIW: As there were apparently no quality issues identified then, I'm assuming the customer must still have some $ deposits stuck on those frames.

wrongwayup wrote:

Skywatcher wrote:

I drove by YMX last Friday on my way up north-I saw 5 "white tails" outside easily from the highway. There may have been more but the hangars blocked part of the view.

Those have been sitting there for a while, some number of them show on Google Earth going back to about a year ago now. They're early serial numbers (Bombardier's version of the "terrible teens"?) largely believed to be empty shells.

I could be wrong, but the fact that OP calls out the "white tails" makes me think that he is referring to frames that are not the empty shells.

The DAL announcement did come out on March 22nd, but was quiet until the official announcement that Boeing would not be taking any additional action against Bombardier.

http://atwonline.com/manufacturers/boei ... ies-ruling

Deliveries to DAL are to start in October with six to be delivered by years end.

e7plnr wrote:

The DAL announcement did come out on March 22nd, but was quiet until the official announcement that Boeing would not be taking any additional action against Bombardier.

http://atwonline.com/manufacturers/boei ... ies-ruling

Deliveries to DAL are to start in October with six to be delivered by years end.

From where do you take that it will be six aircraft this year?

HB-JCJ (CS3) on its delivery flight YMX-ZRH right now

CS100 FAL
50018 CS100 Swiss Global Air Lines LX/HB-JBI Ordered by Lufthansa Group. Final Assembly Line
50019 CS100 Swiss Global Air Lines LX/HB-JBJ Ordered by Lufthansa Group. Final Assembly Line
50020 CS100 Delta Air Lines DL/ On order, Final Assembly Line
50021 CS100 Delta Air Lines DL/ On order, Final Assembly Line

55024 for Korean to be delivered March 30th. That is the 4th to Korean.

robbo2k wrote:

CS100 FAL
50018 CS100 Swiss Global Air Lines LX/HB-JBI Ordered by Lufthansa Group. Final Assembly Line
50019 CS100 Swiss Global Air Lines LX/HB-JBJ Ordered by Lufthansa Group. Final Assembly Line
50020 CS100 Delta Air Lines DL/ On order, Final Assembly Line
50021 CS100 Delta Air Lines DL/ On order, Final Assembly Line

Surprised to see Delta aircraft already in production and final assembly! At this point in production,when could Delta conceivably take delivery?

Will DL be the next new airline to take delivery?

Also, do we know how the CSeries does in hot conditions yet (i.e. Middle East)? Is it a robust little rocket ship?

MoKa777 wrote:

Also, do we know how the CSeries does in hot conditions yet (i.e. Middle East)? Is it a robust little rocket ship?

airBaltic have been using the CS300 on Abu Dhabi this winter, have not seen any published problems. Abu Dhabi - Riga is about 6hrs30mins nonstop.

CRJ900 wrote:

MoKa777 wrote:

Also, do we know how the CSeries does in hot conditions yet (i.e. Middle East)? Is it a robust little rocket ship?

airBaltic have been using the CS300 on Abu Dhabi this winter, have not seen any published problems. Abu Dhabi - Riga is about 6hrs30mins nonstop.

That is interesting. Thank you for that.

It will be interesting to see how it operates in summer.

MoKa777 wrote:

It will be interesting to see how it operates in summer.

I believe this is a winter seasonal flight bringing snow birds down during winter months.

9252fly wrote:

robbo2k wrote:

CS100 FAL
50018 CS100 Swiss Global Air Lines LX/HB-JBI Ordered by Lufthansa Group. Final Assembly Line
50019 CS100 Swiss Global Air Lines LX/HB-JBJ Ordered by Lufthansa Group. Final Assembly Line
50020 CS100 Delta Air Lines DL/ On order, Final Assembly Line
50021 CS100 Delta Air Lines DL/ On order, Final Assembly Line

Surprised to see Delta aircraft already in production and final assembly! At this point in production,when could Delta conceivably take delivery?

Delta aircraft have been showing on the abcdlist website for several months but I have been told not to put too much faith in production line numbers going to individual airlines. Apparently Bombardier shifts airframes around frequently.

Another poster posted earlier that there is a problem with the certification of the seats for the Delta aircraft which apparently are different from the seats delivered to the other airlines to this point. The certification of those seats is apparently one of the major driving factors on the delivery date which is yet to be announced.

KAL 30d is enroute to ANC. HL 7201 55024

So 4 deliveries this month?

Yes, great news! And 2 more had first flights. Here's hoping the program is finally getting some momentum.

SteelChair wrote:

Yes, great news! And 2 more had first flights. Here's hoping the program is finally getting some momentum.

A.Netters (including myself) have been repeating this for at least five years. While the DL and AC orders gave the program some credibility it just has not seemed to have panned out the way I had hoped and thought. While I think Airbus being involved will help it also deflates the idea of their being a true "third player" to break up the duopoly.

BBD/Airbus has to announce some serious orders at Farnborough! I would have thought we would see a LH order due to the Swiss success but thus far - nothing. My personal opinion is that they have to eventually do a CS500 to make a true family of aircraft that an airline can utilize for all missions. Think single family airlines like Southwest, Easyjet and the like. Having a family of aircraft from 100 seats to 165 seats could give an airline one source for aircraft for many years. Obviously does not help such airlines when to they need or want to upgrade to a 739/A321 class aircraft but does get them 3/4 of the way there. In other words, what does a BT do when they need something larger than the CS300? Go to Airbus or Boeing. Today the CSeries is still a niche player. Just my .02.

I agree that they need to do a CS 500, and I believe it has been in the plans from the beginning.

I'm under no illusion. The planes they just delivered were the ones that they hoped to deliver in CY2017. So they're way late. But the good news is that Bombardier is chipping away and slowly increasing the production rate. Soon, large customers Delta and Air Canada will start taking delivery. At some point, crticial mass will be attained, and other large customers come onboard. Whether it is at Farnborough or not (i think not), time will tell.

From what I gather, the target (as decreed from on high) is now to get to rate 10.

Amiga500 wrote:

From what I gather, the target (as decreed from on high) is now to get to rate 10.

Is that with the Mobile FAL? Something like 5+5?
I'd like that, but they need a lot of sales for that.

I think it's rate 10/month from the two lines at Mirabel. (they now estimate 140-150 /year from the two FAL1 lines at Mirabel. The problem is that only an assembed plane structure rolls out of FAL1. Al internal stuf still has to be fitted. There are nine spots for this internal outfitting, and the flight line in the hangar Y and Z building that were part of the CRJ production line.
I think the FAL at Mobile will introduce a different assembly proces than the proces at Mirabel. I expect that Mobile will be able to achieve a rate of 6-8/month on one FAL line. Hopefully the Mirabel FAL can also convert to the new assembly proces, with some additional production facilities. Hopefully Mirabel can achieve the original aimed production rate of 140-150/year (~12/month) with the two FAL1 lines.
There is room for two additional FAL1 lines at Mirabel.

I started another thread but it fizzled: Howsabout making the BFM facility a completion center to start with, at least until the YMX FAL is running at full capacity?

Near as I can tell, Bombardier needs help with completion, not basic assembly, and Airbus has experience with this tyoe of operation before (Finkenwerder opened this way).

Doing completion for US bound planes only at BFM will push the US built component % over 50% since they are almost there already due to US content in the engines and some of the other systems. And it will open up completion space at YMX for planes bound for elsewhere.

They also need to get major sub-assembly production rates up. That will not be a simple matter.

CSeries 55029 for SWISS had its first flight today, (April 6th), and 55023 for SWISS will be delivered within a week. Finally production/deliveries are increasing, with 4 deliveries in March: 2 to SWISS and 2 to KAL. And SWISS 55027 is also expected to be delivered some time in April

OA940 wrote:

The CSeries deserves orders. It's an extremely useful plane, and it's comfortable and economical as well. I can't for the love of God figure out why it doesn't have the orders it deserves.

In a word: geopolitics.

The CSeries deserves orders. It's an extremely useful plane, and it's comfortable and economical as well. I can't for the love of God figure out why it doesn't have the orders it deserves.

I think its a great aircraft too, but I think maybe they are not getting orders because they can't figure out the production. 5 planes per month ain't gonna cut it, imagine placing a decent order now, when will you ever get the deliveries, and would you trust BBD with those delivery dates.

Jetsouth wrote:

CSeries 55029 for SWISS had its first flight today, (April 6th), and 55023 for SWISS will be delivered within a week. Finally production/deliveries are increasing, with 4 deliveries in March: 2 to SWISS and 2 to KAL. And SWISS 55027 is also expected to be delivered some time in April

55023 still not delivered and no new recent first flight.....man these long gaps with no activity are frustrating.....

SteelChair wrote:

Jetsouth wrote:

CSeries 55029 for SWISS had its first flight today, (April 6th), and 55023 for SWISS will be delivered within a week. Finally production/deliveries are increasing, with 4 deliveries in March: 2 to SWISS and 2 to KAL. And SWISS 55027 is also expected to be delivered some time in April

55023 still not delivered and no new recent first flight.....man these long gaps with no activity are frustrating.....

Apparently there are problems with one of the doors of the aircraft that is causing the delay. Bombardier continues to have quality issues....And why such a long delay to rectify this problem is anyone's guess.

The following are the apparent deliveries for April, all SWISS: 23 (first flight Feb 22), 27 (First flight March 16th) and 29 (first flight April 6th). If they follow through, that would mean 3 deliveries for April
For May they plan to deliver 30, 32, and 33 to SWISS, 34 to AirBaltic, and 31 to KAL. That would be 5 deliveries for May, if they do not have production problems which seem to come out during test flights that continue to delay deliveries.
I also wonder which is the next airline to receive a CS300, after SWISS, AirBaltic and KAL?

Jetsouth wrote:

The following are the apparent deliveries for April, all SWISS: 23 (first flight Feb 22), 27 (First flight March 16th) and 29 (first flight April 6th). If they follow through, that would mean 3 deliveries for April
For May they plan to deliver 30, 32, and 33 to SWISS, 34 to AirBaltic, and 31 to KAL. That would be 5 deliveries for May, if they do not have production problems which seem to come out during test flights that continue to delay deliveries.
I also wonder which is the next airline to receive a CS300, after SWISS, AirBaltic and KAL?

That would seem to be a ridiculously ambitious plan.

None of those proposed 5 May deliveries have yet flown have they?

But hey, if they could get 3 each month, that would be progress....keep chipping away.

Have the KAL planes entered revenue service yet?

SteelChair wrote:

Jetsouth wrote:

The following are the apparent deliveries for April, all SWISS: 23 (first flight Feb 22), 27 (First flight March 16th) and 29 (first flight April 6th). If they follow through, that would mean 3 deliveries for April
For May they plan to deliver 30, 32, and 33 to SWISS, 34 to AirBaltic, and 31 to KAL. That would be 5 deliveries for May, if they do not have production problems which seem to come out during test flights that continue to delay deliveries.
I also wonder which is the next airline to receive a CS300, after SWISS, AirBaltic and KAL?

That would seem to be a ridiculously ambitious plan.

None of those proposed 5 May deliveries have yet flown have they?

But hey, if they could get 3 each month, that would be progress....keep chipping away.

Have the KAL planes entered revenue service yet?

Apparently that is what Bombardier states. But we all know that Bombardier is overly optimistic in its forecasts. Four KAL CS300's are in service, I believe. They state that two more SWISS's are supposed to enter flight testing over the next week or so. And the KAL should once it gets its interior finishing done. We shall see. The fact that they already have 3 in flight testing means that, assuming no more manufacturing problems that come via flight testing, those should be good to go over the next week or so

SteelChair wrote:

Jetsouth wrote:

The following are the apparent deliveries for April, all SWISS: 23 (first flight Feb 22), 27 (First flight March 16th) and 29 (first flight April 6th). If they follow through, that would mean 3 deliveries for April
For May they plan to deliver 30, 32, and 33 to SWISS, 34 to AirBaltic, and 31 to KAL. That would be 5 deliveries for May, if they do not have production problems which seem to come out during test flights that continue to delay deliveries.
I also wonder which is the next airline to receive a CS300, after SWISS, AirBaltic and KAL?

That would seem to be a ridiculously ambitious plan.

None of those proposed 5 May deliveries have yet flown have they?

But hey, if they could get 3 each month, that would be progress....keep chipping away.

Have the KAL planes entered revenue service yet?

Of course KAL are in revenue service since March or even February. You can look their flight history of flightradar. There is also an great video flight report on youtube

According to the list of exported aircraft on Transport Canada's website there was a delivery in the last few days. http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/saf-sec-sur/2/c ... hSimp.aspx

Canuck600 wrote:

According to the list of exported aircraft on Transport Canada's website there was a delivery in the last few days. http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/saf-sec-sur/2/c ... hSimp.aspx

That is a CS300 to SWISS, production number 23. That was the one with the door problem (see above)

55023 the next CS300 for LX.

What problem is there? Wiki says Air Tanzania, Gulf Air, Delta and Iraqi are all supposed to take their first aircraft this year. At this rate they won't, and the program really wouldn't benefit from that. Also is there any news on that European order? It's 4 months late, and I really wanna know the new operator.

OA940 wrote:

Also is there any news on that European order? It's 4 months late, and I really wanna know the new operator.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that was only a letter of intent. Who knows if it will ever materialize.

OA940 wrote:

What problem is there? Wiki says Air Tanzania, Gulf Air, Delta and Iraqi are all supposed to take their first aircraft this year. At this rate they won't, and the program really wouldn't benefit from that. Also is there any news on that European order? It's 4 months late, and I really wanna know the new operator.

Well, they do have many in production and should be able to meet these orders:

SWISS have 5 CS300's in various stages of flight testing, 2 CS100's in production and at least 2 CS300's in production. As they already have 17 out of a 30 plane order delivered, the 9 in various stages will mean only 4 more to manufacture to meet SWISS's 30 plane order.
KAL has 4 delivered, 5 in various stages of flight testing and production, therefore they only need to manufacture one more to meet their 10 plane order
AirBaltic has 8 delivered, at least one in production and will take their remaining order sporadically over the next couple of years

Delta has at least 3 in production and will take theirs later this year and next year.

Therefore there is lots of production room to meet the remaining orders mentioned, which are all relatively small. Iraqi, I believe are only 5 planes, Tanzania 2 and Gulf Air, I think 10?

Assuming things keep moving, they should be able to meet these orders this year.

Jetsouth wrote:

OA940 wrote:

What problem is there? Wiki says Air Tanzania, Gulf Air, Delta and Iraqi are all supposed to take their first aircraft this year. At this rate they won't, and the program really wouldn't benefit from that. Also is there any news on that European order? It's 4 months late, and I really wanna know the new operator.

SWISS have 5 CS300's in various stages of flight testing, 2 CS100's in production and at least 2 CS300's in production. As they already have 17 out of a 30 plane order delivered, the 9 in various stages will mean only 4 more to manufacture to meet SWISS's 30 plane order.
KAL has 4 delivered, 5 in various stages of flight testing and production....

According to the abcdlist website there are only 3 airplanes scheduled for delivery that have flown and are not yet delivered: 55023, 27, and 29.

Not sure where you see 5 Swiss frames in flight testing and 5 more KAL "in various stages of flight testing and production," some of which you insinuate are in flight testing.

SteelChair wrote:

Jetsouth wrote:

OA940 wrote:

What problem is there? Wiki says Air Tanzania, Gulf Air, Delta and Iraqi are all supposed to take their first aircraft this year. At this rate they won't, and the program really wouldn't benefit from that. Also is there any news on that European order? It's 4 months late, and I really wanna know the new operator.

SWISS have 5 CS300's in various stages of flight testing, 2 CS100's in production and at least 2 CS300's in production. As they already have 17 out of a 30 plane order delivered, the 9 in various stages will mean only 4 more to manufacture to meet SWISS's 30 plane order.
KAL has 4 delivered, 5 in various stages of flight testing and production....

According to the abcdlist website there are only 3 airplanes scheduled for delivery that have flown and are not yet delivered: 55023, 27, and 29.

Not sure where you see 5 Swiss frames in flight testing and 5 more KAL "in various stages of flight testing and production," some of which you insinuate are in flight testing.

abcdlist not up to date:
SWISS 23,27,29 in flight testing or awaiting delivery, as is the case for 23
SWISS 30, 32 are completed, awaiting flight testing
KAL 31- completed, awaiting flight testing
KAL 26,28,35,37- are in the process of being assembled

Jetsouth wrote:

SteelChair wrote:

Jetsouth wrote:

SWISS have 5 CS300's in various stages of flight testing, 2 CS100's in production and at least 2 CS300's in production. As they already have 17 out of a 30 plane order delivered, the 9 in various stages will mean only 4 more to manufacture to meet SWISS's 30 plane order.
KAL has 4 delivered, 5 in various stages of flight testing and production....

According to the abcdlist website there are only 3 airplanes scheduled for delivery that have flown and are not yet delivered: 55023, 27, and 29.

Not sure where you see 5 Swiss frames in flight testing and 5 more KAL "in various stages of flight testing and production," some of which you insinuate are in flight testing.

abcdlist not up to date:
SWISS 23,27,29 in flight testing or awaiting delivery, as is the case for 23
SWISS 30, 32 are completed, awaiting flight testing
KAL 31- completed, awaiting flight testing
KAL 26,28,35,37- are in the process of being assembled

Have another martini. You listed 23 twice. And all the others haven't flown yet.....so abcdlist is exactly accurate.

Since any new non Boeing related thread seems to disappear instantly....iam posting this here.
http://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/artic ... after-deal

I like the new "A210" and "A230" branding personally, its a refreshing change from the standard "A3" designation and shows its seperate heritage. It also seems to make room for an A320 replacement from the platform.

Bombardier C Series Set to Become Just Another Airbus After Deal

As far as the longevity / staying power of the program goes, this wouldn't be a bad thing.

ap305 wrote:

Since any new non Boeing related thread seems to disappear instantly....iam posting this here.
http://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/artic ... after-deal

I read this originally when it was its own thread then it disappeared. Was any reason given for it's removal? Does everything CSeries related now need to be in this thread?

Airbus Klaus Richter:
"We’ll have a discussion with suppliers because it makes a big difference if you have 300 or 1,500 in your order book.”

Not sure if he used the "1500" number randomly or not...

Anyways, few months ago Airbus was convinced it could lower CSeries costs by at least 15% (mostly via supplier's cost reductions).