El Al will launch flights to San Francisco Q4 2018

EL-AL · Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:17 am

El Al announced today that it will launch its second US west coast starting Q4 2018 – San Francisco airport in California.

According to the airline, the flight will be operated by one of its new 787s, starting at 3 flights a week. This route is operated today by United, with 5 flights a week operated also by 787 and having high demand.

For Years, El Al is flying to Los Angeles, flight operated now with 777 3 flights a week (its also LY's longest route).

Other El Al destinations in the North America are JFK, EWR, BOS, MIA & YYZ, with BOS & MIA opened just in the last few months.

I hope LY's flight will depart at a better hour than the UA one – passengers on the UA flight need to stay on board after the long flight (14.5 hours) for another 30-60 minutes, waiting for immigration to open.

clrd4t8koff · Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:28 am

EL-AL wrote:
El Al announced today that it will launch its second US west coast starting Q4 2018 – San Francisco airport in California.

According to the airline, the flight will be operated by one of its new 787s, starting at 3 flights a week. This route is operated today by United, with 5 flights a week operated also by 787 and having high demand.

For Years, El Al is flying to Los Angeles, flight operated now with 777 3 flights a week (its also LY's longest route).

Other El Al destinations in the North America are JFK, EWR, BOS, MIA & YYZ, with BOS & MIA opened just in the last few months.

I hope LY's flight will depart at a better hour than the UA one – passengers on the UA flight need to stay on board after the long flight (14.5 hours) for another 30-60 minutes, waiting for immigration to open.

Your dates are way off. El Al has been flying to BOS for almost three years, not "just opened in the last few months" as you state.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/first-non ... -by-el-al/

wenders825 · Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:37 am

why would they announce this so far in advance? this is like QR announcing LAS

what's the advantage going to be over UA? timing?

tlvflyguy · Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:00 am

Yikes, was not expecting this. If anything, I was expecting ORD before SFO.
I'm not so sure what to make of this.
Undoubtedly UA's TLV-SFO is mostly O&D but surely they have some connecting passengers to LAX/SEA. LY will not have these.
Also, to improve on UA's timing on the westbound, LY would have to make this a daytime flight, and I don't think that's as appealing.
UA has certainly established well on this route and it will take LY some serious work to gain any ground here. On this long of a route you really have the potential of losing your pants if not done right. 3 times a week vs. UA's daily is already starting at a huge disadvantage.

Still scratching my head here. Is LY just mad that UA captured this market and are trying to get some market share back?

Cointrin330 · Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:15 am

I can't see this flight doing well, given that UA already flies it, and has for some time, and probably has a good share of the Tech market that most likely uses this route for business purposes. UA does have a 787 on the route, and has since inception, except for a short period when they flew the 772. Seems like an odd-ball route for LY, frankly.

thomasphoto60 · Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:26 am

EL-AL wrote:
El Al announced today that it will launch its second US west coast starting Q4 2018 – San Francisco airport in California.

According to the airline, the flight will be operated by one of its new 787s, starting at 3 flights a week. This route is operated today by United, with 5 flights a week operated also by 787 and having high demand.

For Years, El Al is flying to Los Angeles, flight operated now with 777 3 flights a week (its also LY's longest route).

Other El Al destinations in the North America are JFK, EWR, BOS, MIA & YYZ, with BOS & MIA opened just in the last few months.

I hope LY's flight will depart at a better hour than the UA one – passengers on the UA flight need to stay on board after the long flight (14.5 hours) for another 30-60 minutes, waiting for immigration to open.

Hummmm.....I thought that LY had MIA service going back to the 80s.

yochai · Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:52 am

Due to night curfew restrictions in TLV the last off block time is 0120LMT, while UA departs at 0055 the 2 flights will probably be heading westbound together, however on the return flight they will probably have a similar timings to the LAX flight to depart around 2PM from SFO. I think El Al can do great on the SFO flight, as they have been doing with the new MIA flight (Over 90% LF for a new route is outstanding, especially the front of the plane is almost always full).

Cunard · Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:31 pm

thomasphoto60 wrote:
EL-AL wrote:
El Al announced today that it will launch its second US west coast starting Q4 2018 – San Francisco airport in California.

According to the airline, the flight will be operated by one of its new 787s, starting at 3 flights a week. This route is operated today by United, with 5 flights a week operated also by 787 and having high demand.

For Years, El Al is flying to Los Angeles, flight operated now with 777 3 flights a week (its also LY's longest route).

Other El Al destinations in the North America are JFK, EWR, BOS, MIA & YYZ, with BOS & MIA opened just in the last few months.

I hope LY's flight will depart at a better hour than the UA one – passengers on the UA flight need to stay on board after the long flight (14.5 hours) for another 30-60 minutes, waiting for immigration to open.

Hummmm.....I thought that LY had MIA service going back to the 80s.

LY suspended direct flights between TLV and MIA in August 2008 and the route resumed in November 2017.

tlvflyguy · Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:03 pm

yochai wrote:
I think El Al can do great on the SFO flight, as they have been doing with the new MIA flight (Over 90% LF for a new route is outstanding, especially the front of the plane is almost always full).

I don't think it's quite apples to apples.
TLV-MIA is LY-exclusive. At SFO they have to compete with the UA hub and with a daily frequency that has been running for quite some time.
And, combined with the fact that it is even longer than MIA, every seat (and its yield) on that plane will matter for the bottom line.
Also, MIA is a larger market than SFO to begin with, and competing with UA for SFO will likely hurt the profits compared to MIA.

Of course - I'm rooting for LY, if only for more competitive rates on both carriers. Good luck!

LH658 · Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:22 pm

I thought LY has good terms with AA, if they do, they should start PHL, ORD, IAD, or SEA.

yochai · Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:40 pm

tlvflyguy wrote:
yochai wrote:
I think El Al can do great on the SFO flight, as they have been doing with the new MIA flight (Over 90% LF for a new route is outstanding, especially the front of the plane is almost always full).

I don't think it's quite apples to apples.
TLV-MIA is LY-exclusive. At SFO they have to compete with the UA hub and with a daily frequency that has been running for quite some time.
And, combined with the fact that it is even longer than MIA, every seat (and its yield) on that plane will matter for the bottom line.
Also, MIA is a larger market than SFO to begin with, and competing with UA for SFO will likely hurt the profits compared to MIA.

Of course - I'm rooting for LY, if only for more competitive rates on both carriers. Good luck!

Yes you are right, but seeing how often UA has to leave cargo and standby pax behind in TLV, and with so many pax connecting everyday on various European airlines, I'm sure there's room for another 3-4 weekly frequencies on this route. Apparently TLV-SFO is a very big market and LY has studied this market for a few years now to launch it even with UA flying it daily.

yochai · Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:41 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Is there any official source confirming this or is this just a rumor?

During a press release today announcing the discontinuing of the UP brand it was mentioned that SFO will start during the NW18 Timetable.

clrd4t8koff · Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:42 pm

Is there any official source confirming this or is this just a rumor?

Freshside3 · Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:17 pm

If anything, LY should be doing TLV-ORD, which is needed, instead of trying to compete with UA at SFO......

yochai · Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:29 pm

Freshside3 wrote:
If anything, LY should be doing TLV-ORD, which is needed, instead of trying to compete with UA at SFO......

TLV-ORD is just not enough of a market to justify it until the 788 come online...LY have AA via Europe to take care of that

greenair727 · Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:40 pm

Yochai--any plans for TLV-CLE?

aemoreira1981 · Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:58 pm

Is LY planning to use a B789 on this route instead of the B788 UA uses? At 6449 nmi, TLV-SFO is at the edge of the B788's range in the winter because of winds, but for passengers left behind in TLV on UA bound for SFO, they can be put on an EWR flight if there is room and then flown to SFO on a p.s. or internationally-configured plane. The cargo can be put on the Newark departure.

That said, I'm surprised that ORD is announced before SFO, given that SFO is a UA fortress hub. The source is here, BTW: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-isra ... SKBN1ES0IP

ilyagran · Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:05 pm

I'm just not sure it will work ... On one hand, business community has been begging for TLV-SFO nonstop and no surprise UA flights go out full, particularly in the front. Many times tried to book this flight and it was either ridiculously expensive or showed no availability at all. On the other hand, LY is late to the party and has no alliance affiliation, so FFs wouldn't hurry to fill up LY flights. Had LY grabbed this opportunity in time, the whole picture would be different, but missed the 787 opportunity ... Also, LY desperately needs alliance affiliation, because Matmid club is worthless. I expect the schedule is going to be less than ideal, since there would be no late Friday flight back to TLV after a working week. And the plane will spend the entire day on the ground at SFO, or TLV-SFO would have to be a daytime flight, which is not the best timing either.

jbs2886 · Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:23 pm

yochai wrote:
Freshside3 wrote:
If anything, LY should be doing TLV-ORD, which is needed, instead of trying to compete with UA at SFO......

TLV-ORD is just not enough of a market to justify it until the 788 come online...LY have AA via Europe to take care of that

What statistics do you have on that? Just curious? It would seem SFO is not that much larger and competing against UA wouldn't be ideal given that the route is a decent amount longer.

janders · Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:27 pm

It would be nice is OPer could add a link and source of the news in their starter thread.

Anyhow, will be interesting going head to head with United on the route. Its not like the route is massive to begin with and UA only started flying in the market in April 2016.
Also LY certainly wont have the frequency UA has, as even its long-established LAX flying during summer peak is only 5x weekly, so SFO likely be no more than 3x.

qf789 · Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:35 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Is LY planning to use a B789 on this route instead of the B788 UA uses? At 6449 nmi, TLV-SFO is at the edge of the B788's range in the winter because of winds, but for passengers left behind in TLV on UA bound for SFO, they can be put on an EWR flight if there is room and then flown to SFO on a p.s. or internationally-configured plane. The cargo can be put on the Newark departure.

That said, I'm surprised that ORD is announced before SFO, given that SFO is a UA fortress hub. The source is here, BTW: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-isra ... SKBN1ES0IP

LY is only receiving 789's this year. The fourth frame they receive this year will be delivered mid October so I would say that would be the frame to faciliate this route

yochai · Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:03 pm

qf789 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Is LY planning to use a B789 on this route instead of the B788 UA uses? At 6449 nmi, TLV-SFO is at the edge of the B788's range in the winter because of winds, but for passengers left behind in TLV on UA bound for SFO, they can be put on an EWR flight if there is room and then flown to SFO on a p.s. or internationally-configured plane. The cargo can be put on the Newark departure.

That said, I'm surprised that ORD is announced before SFO, given that SFO is a UA fortress hub. The source is here, BTW: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-isra ... SKBN1ES0IP

LY is only receiving 789's this year. The fourth frame they receive this year will be delivered mid October so I would say that would be the frame to faciliate this route

Delivery schedule for El Al's remaining 787's is as follows:

787-9
#3 February 2018
#4 March 2018
#5 June 2018
#6 August 2018
#7 October 2018
#8 January 2019
#9 June 2019

787-8
#1 July 2019
#2 September 2019
#3 December 2019
#4 March 2020
#5 May 2020
#6 August 2020
#7 November 2020

yochai · Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:09 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
yochai wrote:
Freshside3 wrote:
If anything, LY should be doing TLV-ORD, which is needed, instead of trying to compete with UA at SFO......

TLV-ORD is just not enough of a market to justify it until the 788 come online...LY have AA via Europe to take care of that

What statistics do you have on that? Just curious? It would seem SFO is not that much larger and competing against UA wouldn't be ideal given that the route is a decent amount longer.

I work for El Al so I have access to that info...we have a lot of connecting pax via JFK and BOS and even LAX to SFO on B6/AA (via codeshare), and to a lesser extent DL (via interline). Also SFO has a much bigger business demand than ORD from TLV. El Al is very careful when it comes to launching new routes, the market has been studied for a long time and the 789 was the game changer for LY to launch the route.

NichCage · Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:55 pm

I think that LY is simply an uncompetitive airline in general. Most people would choose UA over LY on SFO-TLV no doubt. First of all, LY is not part of any alliance and there not gonna join one anytime soon. I think that there security requirements are also an hindrance to some people choosing to fly on them when you have so many better options of airlines you can choose. Compared to airlines in alliances they also have very few partners in which they share frequent flyer programs with. They also only fly six days an week with is quite bad if your trying to compete with other airlines that can fly daily.

SonaSounds · Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:10 pm

Article: https://money.usnews.com/investing/news ... ce=twitter

jbs2886 · Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:21 pm

yochai wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
yochai wrote:

TLV-ORD is just not enough of a market to justify it until the 788 come online...LY have AA via Europe to take care of that

What statistics do you have on that? Just curious? It would seem SFO is not that much larger and competing against UA wouldn't be ideal given that the route is a decent amount longer.

I work for El Al so I have access to that info...we have a lot of connecting pax via JFK and BOS and even LAX to SFO on B6/AA (via codeshare), and to a lesser extent DL (via interline). Also SFO has a much bigger business demand than ORD from TLV. El Al is very careful when it comes to launching new routes, the market has been studied for a long time and the 789 was the game changer for LY to launch the route.

Very interesting, thank you (this is the kind of information that is what makes a.net good)! Is ORD even in the running? I would think connection opportunities are pretty large, but overlap with JFK/EWR somewhat.

jbs2886 · Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:23 pm

yochai wrote:
qf789 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Is LY planning to use a B789 on this route instead of the B788 UA uses? At 6449 nmi, TLV-SFO is at the edge of the B788's range in the winter because of winds, but for passengers left behind in TLV on UA bound for SFO, they can be put on an EWR flight if there is room and then flown to SFO on a p.s. or internationally-configured plane. The cargo can be put on the Newark departure.

That said, I'm surprised that ORD is announced before SFO, given that SFO is a UA fortress hub. The source is here, BTW: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-isra ... SKBN1ES0IP

LY is only receiving 789's this year. The fourth frame they receive this year will be delivered mid October so I would say that would be the frame to faciliate this route

Delivery schedule for El Al's remaining 787's is as follows:

787-9
#3 February 2018
#4 March 2018
#5 June 2018
#6 August 2018
#7 October 2018
#8 January 2019
#9 June 2019

787-8
#1 July 2019
#2 September 2019
#3 December 2019
#4 March 2020
#5 May 2020
#6 August 2020
#7 November 2020

Will other aircraft be retired at the same time?

babastud · Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:45 pm

Reading through the comments there seems to be many who question LY thinking in launching this flight. I think this flight will work in the end, although it could have a slow start. I think it will be popular from the TLV originating pax more then the SFO. While the Bay-Area does not have the leisure demand from SFO-TLV it sure has the business demand, and that is what LY is targeting here, will they be as successful as UA, probably not? but at 3 days a week on a 787 they should do fine.

toxtethogrady · Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:30 pm

I'm actually surprised El Al hasn't tried to strike up a few deals with some of the megachurches and begun service to Texas.

aemoreira1981 · Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:42 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
yochai wrote:
qf789 wrote:

LY is only receiving 789's this year. The fourth frame they receive this year will be delivered mid October so I would say that would be the frame to faciliate this route

Delivery schedule for El Al's remaining 787's is as follows:

787-9
#3 February 2018
#4 March 2018
#5 June 2018
#6 August 2018
#7 October 2018
#8 January 2019
#9 June 2019

787-8
#1 July 2019
#2 September 2019
#3 December 2019
#4 March 2020
#5 May 2020
#6 August 2020
#7 November 2020

Will other aircraft be retired at the same time?

The 747s and 767s will be retired. I wonder if El Al will buy two B777Fs to replace the 747 freighter.

yochai · Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:47 pm

747-400 and 767-300 fleet will be retired as follows:
747-400
4XELA September 2018
4XELB October 2018
4XELD January 2019
4XELC June 2019
4XELF (Freighter) July 2019

767-300
4XEAP July 2019
4XEAJ September 2019
4XEAK December 2019
4XEAR March 2020
4XEAM May 2020
4XEAN August 2020
4XEAL November 2020

No plans to replace the 747F

yochai · Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:49 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Very interesting, thank you (this is the kind of information that is what makes a.net good)! Is ORD even in the running? I would think connection opportunities are pretty large, but overlap with JFK/EWR somewhat.

Will probably happen but not before 2020

neomax · Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:29 pm

yochai wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
Very interesting, thank you (this is the kind of information that is what makes a.net good)! Is ORD even in the running? I would think connection opportunities are pretty large, but overlap with JFK/EWR somewhat.

Will probably happen but not before 2020

Damn, what's ahead of ORD!?!

jbs2886 · Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:30 pm

yochai wrote:
747-400 and 767-300 fleet will be retired as follows:
747-400
4XELA September 2018
4XELB October 2018
4XELD January 2019
4XELC June 2019
4XELF (Freighter) July 2019

767-300
4XEAP July 2019
4XEAJ September 2019
4XEAK December 2019
4XEAR March 2020
4XEAM May 2020
4XEAN August 2020
4XEAL November 2020

No plans to replace the 747F

Interesting, there is some expansion with 787s. I hope to see more orders soon! And some MAXes.

Fastphilly · Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:18 pm

I am curious if this new flight will be served out of SJC instead of SFO given the tech business focus of the route plus the problem of gate availability (if a daytime afternoon departure time holds true).

babastud · Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:04 am

SFO not SJC

ADrum23 · Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:26 am

Absolutely shocked that SFO got this ahead of ORD. What happened? I thought Chicago was on El Al's radar?

I can't believe ORD-TLV doesn't exist anywhere, perhaps UA launches it soon? Chicago has a large Jewish population and a large O&D market, so it's not like it can't support a flight to TLV.

727200 · Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:31 am

If El Al stays as a 'niche' player in this market they will do fine. The problem happens when they try a step out of that realm and the big guys notice them trying to take away market share, they turn their 'resources' on them. But just as a point-2-point, they will be ok.

aemoreira1981 · Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:38 am

ADrum23 wrote:
Absolutely shocked that SFO got this ahead of ORD. What happened? I thought Chicago was on El Al's radar?

I can't believe ORD-TLV doesn't exist anywhere, perhaps UA launches it soon? Chicago has a large Jewish population and a large O&D market, so it's not like it can't support a flight to TLV.

I have to imagine that the B6 ORD to JFK flights exist solely for connections at JFK. The morning departure from ORD for JetBlue is:

B6 906/SQ 1486/EK 6072/AT 9545/LY 8690/TP 8034

The PM flight for JetBlue is:
B6 1106/LY 8688/EK 6752/SA 7395

By contrast, UA launching SFO from its fortress hub there likely has forced LY's hand, although I would be surprised if UA didn't up-gauge to a B789 or a B77W. I also want to ask: what kind of significance does the El Al BRAND have in Israel?

ADrum23 · Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:42 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
Absolutely shocked that SFO got this ahead of ORD. What happened? I thought Chicago was on El Al's radar?

I can't believe ORD-TLV doesn't exist anywhere, perhaps UA launches it soon? Chicago has a large Jewish population and a large O&D market, so it's not like it can't support a flight to TLV.

I have to imagine that the B6 ORD to JFK flights exist solely for connections at JFK. The morning departure from ORD for JetBlue is:

B6 906/SQ 1486/EK 6072/AT 9545/LY 8690/TP 8034

The PM flight for JetBlue is:
B6 1106/LY 8688/EK 6752/SA 7395

By contrast, UA launching SFO from its fortress hub there likely has forced LY's hand, although I would be surprised if UA didn't up-gauge to a B789 or a B77W. I also want to ask: what kind of significance does the El Al BRAND have in Israel?

What does that have to do with ORD not having a flight to TLV?

Fastphilly · Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:42 am

ADrum23 wrote:
Absolutely shocked that SFO got this ahead of ORD. What happened? I thought Chicago was on El Al's radar?

I can't believe ORD-TLV doesn't exist anywhere, perhaps UA launches it soon? Chicago has a large Jewish population and a large O&D market, so it's not like it can't support a flight to TLV.

Sure ORD can support a flight, but at a profit? Or should I say at a higher profit than SFO? I’m guessing not.

stl07 · Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:43 am

ADrum23 wrote:
Absolutely shocked that SFO got this ahead of ORD. What happened? I thought Chicago was on El Al's radar?

I can't believe ORD-TLV doesn't exist anywhere, perhaps UA launches it soon? Chicago has a large Jewish population and a large O&D market, so it's not like it can't support a flight to TLV.

For some reason, I feel as though RJ's ORD flight has something to do with this. From Amman, it's just a quick hop to Isreal plus Jordan has many of the same attractions as Isreal but from another side, so it bites out of the tourist demand, and RJ is a Oneworld member so they have a good relationship with AA. There probably is a different reason for ORD not coming yet but I can't help but wonder if RJ plays a role.

ADrum23 · Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:51 am

Fastphilly wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
Absolutely shocked that SFO got this ahead of ORD. What happened? I thought Chicago was on El Al's radar?

I can't believe ORD-TLV doesn't exist anywhere, perhaps UA launches it soon? Chicago has a large Jewish population and a large O&D market, so it's not like it can't support a flight to TLV.

Sure ORD can support a flight, but at a profit? Or should I say at a higher profit than SFO? I’m guessing not.

Just curious, does San Francisco have a higher Jewish population than Chicago?

I'm sure UA could do ORD-TLV and route connecting traffic onto it.

jbs2886 · Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:51 am

ADrum23 wrote:
Fastphilly wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
Absolutely shocked that SFO got this ahead of ORD. What happened? I thought Chicago was on El Al's radar?

I can't believe ORD-TLV doesn't exist anywhere, perhaps UA launches it soon? Chicago has a large Jewish population and a large O&D market, so it's not like it can't support a flight to TLV.

Sure ORD can support a flight, but at a profit? Or should I say at a higher profit than SFO? I’m guessing not.

Just curious, does San Francisco have a higher Jewish population than Chicago?

I'm sure UA could do ORD-TLV and route connecting traffic onto it.

Higher Jewish populations does not translate to passengers or appropriate yields. Please read above where someone with El Al explained why SFO instead of ORD.

ADrum23 · Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:00 am

yochai wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
yochai wrote:

TLV-ORD is just not enough of a market to justify it until the 788 come online...LY have AA via Europe to take care of that

What statistics do you have on that? Just curious? It would seem SFO is not that much larger and competing against UA wouldn't be ideal given that the route is a decent amount longer.

I work for El Al so I have access to that info...we have a lot of connecting pax via JFK and BOS and even LAX to SFO on B6/AA (via codeshare), and to a lesser extent DL (via interline). Also SFO has a much bigger business demand than ORD from TLV. El Al is very careful when it comes to launching new routes, the market has been studied for a long time and the 789 was the game changer for LY to launch the route.

Is the reason San Francisco has a bigger business demand because of Silicon Valley?

Also, is ORD out of the question or will it come later?

aemoreira1981 · Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:08 am

ADrum23 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
Absolutely shocked that SFO got this ahead of ORD. What happened? I thought Chicago was on El Al's radar?

I can't believe ORD-TLV doesn't exist anywhere, perhaps UA launches it soon? Chicago has a large Jewish population and a large O&D market, so it's not like it can't support a flight to TLV.

I have to imagine that the B6 ORD to JFK flights exist solely for connections at JFK. The morning departure from ORD for JetBlue is:

B6 906/SQ 1486/EK 6072/AT 9545/LY 8690/TP 8034

The PM flight for JetBlue is:
B6 1106/LY 8688/EK 6752/SA 7395

By contrast, UA launching SFO from its fortress hub there likely has forced LY's hand, although I would be surprised if UA didn't up-gauge to a B789 or a B77W. I also want to ask: what kind of significance does the El Al BRAND have in Israel?

What does that have to do with ORD not having a flight to TLV?

Not enough higher-yielding traffic, unlike SFO. United has that all to itself on SFO and now LY wants some of it back.

ADrum23 · Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:13 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:

I have to imagine that the B6 ORD to JFK flights exist solely for connections at JFK. The morning departure from ORD for JetBlue is:

B6 906/SQ 1486/EK 6072/AT 9545/LY 8690/TP 8034

The PM flight for JetBlue is:
B6 1106/LY 8688/EK 6752/SA 7395

By contrast, UA launching SFO from its fortress hub there likely has forced LY's hand, although I would be surprised if UA didn't up-gauge to a B789 or a B77W. I also want to ask: what kind of significance does the El Al BRAND have in Israel?

What does that have to do with ORD not having a flight to TLV?

Not enough higher-yielding traffic, unlike SFO. United has that all to itself on SFO and now LY wants some of it back.

Still not understanding this. Because ORD has a lot of B6 connecting traffic at JFK to LY to TLV, they don’t need a direct flight from ORD?

neomax · Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:15 am

stl07 wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
Absolutely shocked that SFO got this ahead of ORD. What happened? I thought Chicago was on El Al's radar?

I can't believe ORD-TLV doesn't exist anywhere, perhaps UA launches it soon? Chicago has a large Jewish population and a large O&D market, so it's not like it can't support a flight to TLV.

For some reason, I feel as though RJ's ORD flight has something to do with this. From Amman, it's just a quick hop to Isreal plus Jordan has many of the same attractions as Isreal but from another side, so it bites out of the tourist demand, and RJ is a Oneworld member so they have a good relationship with AA. There probably is a different reason for ORD not coming yet but I can't help but wonder if RJ plays a role.

I think you're right. I was actually wondering the same thing myself earlier when looking at a map and realizing that AMM is a stone's throw away from TLV and serve ORD already. I severely doubt anyone's going to use LY to connect anywhere due to the insane security hassle as compared to numerous RJ connections out of AMM, but I can definitely see many Israelis preferring RJ as security is a breeze in AMM, and as RJ/AMM airport is generally perceived to be far better than LY, at least if you're flying on anything other than the new LY 787 (which RJ currently flies to ORD).

Fastphilly · Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:23 am

ADrum23 wrote:
yochai wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:

What statistics do you have on that? Just curious? It would seem SFO is not that much larger and competing against UA wouldn't be ideal given that the route is a decent amount longer.

I work for El Al so I have access to that info...we have a lot of connecting pax via JFK and BOS and even LAX to SFO on B6/AA (via codeshare), and to a lesser extent DL (via interline). Also SFO has a much bigger business demand than ORD from TLV. El Al is very careful when it comes to launching new routes, the market has been studied for a long time and the 789 was the game changer for LY to launch the route.

Is the reason San Francisco has a bigger business demand because of Silicon Valley?

Also, is ORD out of the question or will it come later?

SAN Francisco Bay Area isn’t just tech, it’s the largest financial city on the West Coast. Large Biotech industry and a healthy tourism industry that attracts many foreign visitors.

KLMatSJC · Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:04 am

Along with the new SIN flight, the UA TLV flight has been printing money since the route was open, so it makes sense that LY wants to get in on the competition.

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