Southwest orders more 737 Max 8s and defers 737 Max 7s

KarelXWB · Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:44 pm

As the result of GOP's corporate tax cut, Southwest has exercised 40 737 Max 8 options. At the same time,
carrier has deferred 23 Max 7s (the bulk of its order) by 4 years.

Press release
https://www.swamedia.com/releases/relea ... eing-fleet

Dutchy · Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:54 pm

So even Southwest is looking at larger a/c. Is the Max7 in jeopardy?

StTim · Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:59 pm

Dutchy wrote:
So even Southwest is looking at larger a/c. Is the Max7 in jeopardy?

This doesn't fit the Boeing narrative on the MAX7.

einsteinboricua · Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:08 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
As the result of GOP's corporate tax cut,

MUST...AVOID...POLITICAL...ANSWER...

StTim wrote:
This doesn't fit the Boeing narrative on the MAX7.

Folks in the forum have called the MAX8 the new MAX7 after the launch of the MAX10.

Per Wiki, there are only 58 orders for the MAX7: 30 for WN, 23 for WS, and 5 for newcomer Canada Jetlines. If WN's strategy is to defer but ultimately convert the orders to MAX8, then Boeing's gonna have to make a decision about whether to convince the remaining customers to accept -700NG or upgrade to MAX8.

Seems like the MAX7 is going down the path of the 787-3, A350-800, and A330-800NEO

VS11 · Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:09 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
As the result of GOP's corporate tax cut, Southwest has exercised 40 737 Max 8 options. At the same time,
carrier has deferred 23 Max 7s (the bulk of its order) by 4 years.

Press release
https://www.swamedia.com/releases/relea ... eing-fleet

A bit off topic but in that same press release they announce a $1,000 bonus to each employee - that's a very decent cash bonus.

"All Fulltime and Parttime Southwest Employees employed with Southwest on Dec. 31, 2017, will receive a $1,000 cash bonus on Jan. 8, 2018."

INFINITI329 · Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:19 pm

VS11 wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
As the result of GOP's corporate tax cut, Southwest has exercised 40 737 Max 8 options. At the same time,
carrier has deferred 23 Max 7s (the bulk of its order) by 4 years.

Press release
https://www.swamedia.com/releases/relea ... eing-fleet

A bit off topic but in that same press release they announce a $1,000 bonus to each employee - that's a very decent cash bonus.

"All Fulltime and Parttime Southwest Employees employed with Southwest on Dec. 31, 2017, will receive a $1,000 cash bonus on Jan. 8, 2018."

Southwest isn't the only one doing this.... many other Fortune 500 companies are doing the same as a result of the new tax legislation (which I have my own opinion on but won't get into it here on this forum)

airliner371 · Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:20 pm

So they're defering 23 of the 30 that were originally scheduled to be delivered from 2019-2021 to 2023-2024. That leaves 7 that would theoretically be delivered some time between 2019-2021.

Will be interesting to see the order book when the Q4 and Full Year 2017 results are released later this month.

VS11 · Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:21 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:

Southwest isn't the only one doing this.... many other Fortune 500 companies are doing the same as a result of the new tax legislation (which I have my own opinion on but won't get into it here on this forum)

Good for them. I just thought for an airline the amount was pretty significant.

VetteDude · Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:41 pm

Interesting, because I've always assumed that the small Max7 order was just a placekeeper for a huge Max7 order to replace -700s.

Nice to see more positive effects from tax reform.

airzona11 · Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:51 pm

They dont really need the Max7s anytime soon, as the older 73Gs cycle out, replace those with Max8s and used 738s. I bet they keep buying up used 73Gs as well. That second half of 2020s it will be interesting to see the direction they go. To earn the margins they need, with their costs, airlines need to go bigger.

ucdtim17 · Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:58 pm

airzona11 wrote:
They dont really need the Max7s anytime soon, as the older 73Gs cycle out, replace those with Max8s and used 738s. I bet they keep buying up used 73Gs as well. That second half of 2020s it will be interesting to see the direction they go. To earn the margins they need, with their costs, airlines need to go bigger.

They must have some sort of long term thinking. If they don't take the Max 7, who will, and will it be around in 2021 when they do want to place a large order? Or are they preparing to move fully towards a 175 seat fleet eventually?

ADrum23 · Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:59 pm

I wonder if this means they will eventually order the MAX 10 or perhaps the 797/MOM down the road?

VetteDude · Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:01 am

I just wonder what the cost difference is between the Max 7, 8, and 9. Maybe for Southwest, having a fleet of all Max 8's makes a lot of sense even if on many flights some of those extra seats are empty. The marginal revenue might offset the marginal costs of flying the bigger plane all the time.

tomaheath · Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:07 am

I thought they had said in a press release that the MAX7s were going to head to Hawaii?

airzona11 · Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:12 am

ucdtim17 wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
They dont really need the Max7s anytime soon, as the older 73Gs cycle out, replace those with Max8s and used 738s. I bet they keep buying up used 73Gs as well. That second half of 2020s it will be interesting to see the direction they go. To earn the margins they need, with their costs, airlines need to go bigger.

They must have some sort of long term thinking. If they don't take the Max 7, who will, and will it be around in 2021 when they do want to place a large order? Or are they preparing to move fully towards a 175 seat fleet eventually?

With no new airlines on the horizon, and population and air travel growth, it is not unfathomable to see the 73G/Max7 segment be very limited at WN. AA is abandoning it. UA doesnt have many. DL has CSeries. Maybe they launch the new Boeing aircraft in that segment. Maybe they go EMB or BBD. I just think over the next decade, they dont really have a need to commit.

Kelley has said to employees, the jump from 8 to 9 doesnt add a lot of value. So maybe they keep going bigger to the 7310s.

727200 · Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:12 am

So much for the other thread talking about SW ordering A-321's

dc10lover · Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:30 am

Southwest should simply convert all orders to the Boeing Max8. Serious.

MSPNWA · Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:44 am

Unless WN is looking at retiring 73Gs - which doesn't seem imminent as the oldest is only a hair over 20 years old - the Max 7 really doesn't have much use for them yet. The MAX 8 is much more useful in the short-term.

ADrum23 · Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:06 am

MSPNWA wrote:
Unless WN is looking at retiring 73Gs - which doesn't seem imminent as the oldest is only a hair over 20 years old - the Max 7 really doesn't have much use for them yet. The MAX 8 is much more useful in the short-term.

Agreed.

What exactly would WN use the MAX 7 for? It only has a bit better range than the MAX 8, and it doesn't sound like WN will be expanding to anywhere that is further than Hawaii anytime soon, so what is the point? I would dump the order and convert it to more MAX 8's or the MAX 10 and then wait for the MOM/797.

hOMSaR · Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:09 am

Are the prototype 7s, at least two of which have already been largely built (at least the fuselage is assembled) destined for WN? How would their deferral affect the prototype production (or would those go to WS)?

With 30 planes on order, deferring 23 of them means they'd only have 7 non-deferred planes. I don't know the delivery schedule, but I can't imagine WN would want to operate a subfleet of only 7 planes for an extended period of time. Perhaps those 7 are either scheduled towards the end of the original delivery period, or it was already too late to do anything about those planes without significant penalty, so they'll just take them and push the rest out until they can figure out what to do with them.

aemoreira1981 · Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:11 am

If one asks me, there is no reason at all for WN to order a single MAX 7. 175 seats seems pretty adequate for any WN route. The B38M (ICAO code for the 737 MAX 8) should have no problem making it to HNL at all from LAX.

rbavfan · Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:19 am

ADrum23 wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
Unless WN is looking at retiring 73Gs - which doesn't seem imminent as the oldest is only a hair over 20 years old - the Max 7 really doesn't have much use for them yet. The MAX 8 is much more useful in the short-term.

Agreed.

What exactly would WN use the MAX 7 for? It only has a bit better range than the MAX 8, and it doesn't sound like WN will be expanding to anywhere that is further than Hawaii anytime soon, so what is the point? I would dump the order and convert it to more MAX 8's or the MAX 10 and then wait for the MOM/797.

So 310nm range is pointless. The 2000 lb. plus of extra cargo if you don't need the range is quite useful. Especially Hawaii where people have a larger luggage load on the return flights.

ADrum23 · Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:19 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
If one asks me, there is no reason at all for WN to order a single MAX 7. 175 seats seems pretty adequate for any WN route. The B38M (ICAO code for the 737 MAX 8) should have no problem making it to HNL at all from LAX.

The B38M should have no problem flying to HNL from any major WN market west of the rockies (LAX, SFO, OAK, SJC, SAN, PHX, LAS, SEA, PDX, etc). DEN may be able to as well depending on weather conditions and load/weight factors, but I doubt they will launch that with the B38M.

rbavfan · Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:22 am

hOMSaR wrote:
Are the prototype 7s, at least two of which have already been largely built (at least the fuselage is assembled) destined for WN? How would their deferral affect the prototype production (or would those go to WS)?

With 30 planes on order, deferring 23 of them means they'd only have 7 non-deferred planes. I don't know the delivery schedule, but I can't imagine WN would want to operate a subfleet of only 7 planes for an extended period of time. Perhaps those 7 are either scheduled towards the end of the original delivery period, or it was already too late to do anything about those planes without significant penalty, so they'll just take them and push the rest out until they can figure out what to do with them.

Same crew rating, engines & parts. It would not be a big problem.

Stitch · Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:23 am

Dutchy wrote:
So even Southwest is looking at larger a/c. Is the Max7 in jeopardy?

Unlikely, considering how many 737-700s they have in their fleet. They also were said to be the major influencer in Boeing increasing the MAX 7 capacity to exactly 150 seats in a single class at WN's standard pitch. So I still see the MAX-7 as a major component of WN's fleet unless they're seeing significant growth on every single route year-round.

VetteDude wrote:
Interesting, because I've always assumed that the small Max7 order was just a placekeeper for a huge Max7 order to replace -700s.

And I expect that will still happen once WN is ready to start mass-retiring 737-700s.

hOMSaR · Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:31 am

rbavfan wrote:
hOMSaR wrote:
Are the prototype 7s, at least two of which have already been largely built (at least the fuselage is assembled) destined for WN? How would their deferral affect the prototype production (or would those go to WS)?

With 30 planes on order, deferring 23 of them means they'd only have 7 non-deferred planes. I don't know the delivery schedule, but I can't imagine WN would want to operate a subfleet of only 7 planes for an extended period of time. Perhaps those 7 are either scheduled towards the end of the original delivery period, or it was already too late to do anything about those planes without significant penalty, so they'll just take them and push the rest out until they can figure out what to do with them.

Same crew rating, engines & parts. It would not be a big problem.

I would think it would be, operationally. The MAX 7 will have a different capacity from any other type in the fleet (IIRC, 149 vs. 143). This means they'd have to keep those specific frames on certain routes, or they'd have to book to the lower capacity until very close-in, then release the extra 6 seats for sale, and then hope they don't have a day-of-departure equipment swap. Or if they swap to the -800 or MAX 8, then they'd have a bunch of extra seats flying around, and meanwhile the flight that was supposed to get the 8 now has a 7 instead.

They can easily swap between the -800 and MAX 8 without much of a problem because they have the same capacity. But having just a fleet of 7 planes with a different capacity seems like more trouble than it would be worth.

jbs2886 · Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:48 am

hOMSaR wrote:
rbavfan wrote:
hOMSaR wrote:
Are the prototype 7s, at least two of which have already been largely built (at least the fuselage is assembled) destined for WN? How would their deferral affect the prototype production (or would those go to WS)?

With 30 planes on order, deferring 23 of them means they'd only have 7 non-deferred planes. I don't know the delivery schedule, but I can't imagine WN would want to operate a subfleet of only 7 planes for an extended period of time. Perhaps those 7 are either scheduled towards the end of the original delivery period, or it was already too late to do anything about those planes without significant penalty, so they'll just take them and push the rest out until they can figure out what to do with them.

Same crew rating, engines & parts. It would not be a big problem.

I would think it would be, operationally. The MAX 7 will have a different capacity from any other type in the fleet (IIRC, 149 vs. 143). This means they'd have to keep those specific frames on certain routes, or they'd have to book to the lower capacity until very close-in, then release the extra 6 seats for sale, and then hope they don't have a day-of-departure equipment swap. Or if they swap to the -800 or MAX 8, then they'd have a bunch of extra seats flying around, and meanwhile the flight that was supposed to get the 8 now has a 7 instead.

They can easily swap between the -800 and MAX 8 without much of a problem because they have the same capacity. But having just a fleet of 7 planes with a different capacity seems like more trouble than it would be worth.

WN can always sell 143 to prevent that problem while the fleet is small. I'm sure they had the same concerns when 738s were introduced.

WNCrew · Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:02 am

[/quote]

I would think it would be, operationally. The MAX 7 will have a different capacity from any other type in the fleet (IIRC, 149 vs. 143). This means they'd have to keep those specific frames on certain routes, or they'd have to book to the lower capacity until very close-in, then release the extra 6 seats for sale, and then hope they don't have a day-of-departure equipment swap. Or if they swap to the -800 or MAX 8, then they'd have a bunch of extra seats flying around, and meanwhile the flight that was supposed to get the 8 now has a 7 instead.

They can easily swap between the -800 and MAX 8 without much of a problem because they have the same capacity. But having just a fleet of 7 planes with a different capacity seems like more trouble than it would be worth.[/quote]

I agree... though I think I remember being told the MAX7 would actually hold more than 150 (once Boeing added the additional overwing exit on each side)... after the fuselage stretch. I forget what it was now.

hOMSaR · Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:06 am

jbs2886 wrote:
WN can always sell 143 to prevent that problem while the fleet is small. I'm sure they had the same concerns when 738s were introduced.

True, but if you're only going to sell to 143, what's the point of having 149 (or is it 150 as another posted suggested? Either way, doesn't matter as it doesn't change the point). While similar issues could have occurred when the 737-800 was introduced, it would only have been for a very short time as soon the fleet grew to be pretty sizable. Depending on when the non-deferred MAXes get delivered, they'll have a fleet of 7 for possibly a few years (compared to the 737-800, which exceeded that fleet size in the first couple of months).

lightsaber · Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:08 am

Dutchy wrote:
So even Southwest is looking at larger a/c. Is the Max7 in jeopardy?

I fully expect:
1. Boeing to improve -8 MAX short field performance (MDW, SNA) allowing WN to shift -7 MAX to -8 MAX.
2. While many want to get political on the new tax system, the reality is it shifts the optimal equipment purchase.

Tax changes change investment returns. For airlines, this will mean replacing aircraft sooner and hopefully buying more.

Lightsaber

Cubsrule · Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:08 am

jbs2886 wrote:
hOMSaR wrote:
rbavfan wrote:

Same crew rating, engines & parts. It would not be a big problem.

I would think it would be, operationally. The MAX 7 will have a different capacity from any other type in the fleet (IIRC, 149 vs. 143). This means they'd have to keep those specific frames on certain routes, or they'd have to book to the lower capacity until very close-in, then release the extra 6 seats for sale, and then hope they don't have a day-of-departure equipment swap. Or if they swap to the -800 or MAX 8, then they'd have a bunch of extra seats flying around, and meanwhile the flight that was supposed to get the 8 now has a 7 instead.

They can easily swap between the -800 and MAX 8 without much of a problem because they have the same capacity. But having just a fleet of 7 planes with a different capacity seems like more trouble than it would be worth.

WN can always sell 143 to prevent that problem while the fleet is small. I'm sure they had the same concerns when 738s were introduced.

When the 738 first arrived, 738 flights with 40 or 50 empty seats were quite common. Now, while you will see empty seats, it’s rare to see a 738 booked to less than 143. I can think of only two I’ve been on recently, and one was a Tuesday afternoon and the other was Christmas.

travaz · Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:08 am

I took a flight from ONT to PHX when WN was getting the first few -800's. The plane went SEA-DEN-LAS-ONT-PHX. When i got on the flight from ONT it was at 9 PM and there were 25 of us on the flight. We were all invited to sit in First Class!

coronado · Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:53 am

travaz wrote:
I took a flight from ONT to PHX when WN was getting the first few -800's. The plane went SEA-DEN-LAS-ONT-PHX. When i got on the flight from ONT it was at 9 PM and there were 25 of us on the flight. We were all invited to sit in First Class!

First Class on WN? New to me. But maybe they will launch big wide seats!

travaz · Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:23 am

coronado wrote:
travaz wrote:
I took a flight from ONT to PHX when WN was getting the first few -800's. The plane went SEA-DEN-LAS-ONT-PHX. When i got on the flight from ONT it was at 9 PM and there were 25 of us on the flight. We were all invited to sit in First Class!

First Class on WN? New to me. But maybe they will launch big wide seats!

I guess you have never flown on WN where the crews often make jokes like that. One flight they asked everyone to turn to page ## in the magazine to see what snacks were offered and it was an ad for a famous Steakhouse.

TWA772LR · Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:37 am

coronado wrote:
travaz wrote:
I took a flight from ONT to PHX when WN was getting the first few -800's. The plane went SEA-DEN-LAS-ONT-PHX. When i got on the flight from ONT it was at 9 PM and there were 25 of us on the flight. We were all invited to sit in First Class!

First Class on WN? New to me. But maybe they will launch big wide seats!

It's all First Class!

chrisp390 · Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:20 am

First class on WN? & 25 seats in a narrow body first class? Either you are mixing up the airline, or you are not remembering it correctly!

737max8 · Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:54 am

I literally flew a 737 MAX8 with 12 people on board 2 weeks ago....but that is besides the point.

I bet they still take the launch MAX7's, as 7201 is already being built. Or can this easily be shifted to a different customer?

But this definitely adds fuel to the fire of the people that say WN will never take the MAX7. But I can see it being handy for flights departing the East Coast in the future

MAX8 is basically the same operating cost as the MAX7 (ok 1 extra FA, so what) and can easily make up any difference with 25 extra seats to sell.

flyingclrs727 · Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:36 am

Perhaps WN got some inside information about a potential new plane from the proposed Boeing-Embraer partnership to fill the 737-700 space. The every iteration of the 737 seems to orphan the smallest member. The -100 only sold low double digits before the -200. The -300 stretch with CFM engines was much more popular than the -500 that was pretty much a direct replacement for the -200. Of the NG's the -600 was abandoned as an offering just a few years after it came out as the last model size of NG.

The 737 started out as a 100 seat plane. WN's -200's and -500's had 122 seats. If the customers for all the 7Maxes decide to convert orders to -8Maxes, the smallest plane Boeing will have on offer would have 175 seats in WN's configuration. Thats 53 seats more than the planes WN used to originally to build its network. There are lots of cities that are too small for a 737-8Max in WN's network. With Airbus on board with the C-Series, the 7Max just isn't efficient enough to compete.

qf789 · Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:02 am

hOMSaR wrote:
Are the prototype 7s, at least two of which have already been largely built (at least the fuselage is assembled) destined for WN? How would their deferral affect the prototype production (or would those go to WS)?

Yes they are destined for Southwest, the first one is currently in final assembly and the second is due to be loaded for final assembly by the end of the week

rheinwaldner · Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:15 am

Maybe WN wants to keep the option to a buy a better 130 seater (C Series) at a later time?

5427247845 · Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:18 am

VetteDude wrote:
Nice to see more positive effects from tax reform.

Short term benefits. Someone has to pay.

parapente · Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:28 am

It may be my faulty memory but way back when.When Boeing was pushing its NSA hard in the face of the potential NEO it was Southwest (their biggest customer) who demanded 2 things.
1.That a '7' sized aircraft be included (it wasn't planned for the NSA).
2.That they wanted it 'now' not in 8 years time.
These two demands effectively scuppered the NSA and Boeing went with the quicker MAX route including a 7.

That decision lies at the heart of all their MOM issues (well A321NEO issues in reality).They say always listen to your customer.
Mmmmmm

XT6Wagon · Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:42 am

rheinwaldner wrote:
Maybe WN wants to keep the option to a buy a better 130 seater (C Series) at a later time?

If by better you mean worse, then sure.

At WN's fleet size, there is no possible way a C series would be cheaper to fly than a Max-7.

ADrum23 · Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:49 am

I'd just cancel the MAX 7 and exercise all the remaining options on the MAX 8's, then order the MAX 10 and the 797/MOM (when it becomes available). What is the point of keeping only 30 MAX 7's anyway? Where will they use them? It is not nearly enough for them to replace all the 737-700's they have (unless the 738's and the MAX 8's are the long term replacement for the 737-700's).

jplatts · Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:14 am

ADrum23 wrote:
I'd just cancel the MAX 7 and exercise all the remaining options on the MAX 8's, then order the MAX 10 and the 797/MOM (when it becomes available). What is the point of keeping only 30 MAX 7's anyway? Where will they use them? It is not nearly enough for them to replace all the 737-700's they have (unless the 738's and the MAX 8's are the long term replacement for the 737-700's).

There are SWA routes to and from some of the smaller markets served by Southwest Airlines where the 737-800 and 737 MAX 8 are too big and where the 737-700, 737 MAX 7, or mainline aircraft slightly smaller than the 737-700 are a better fit than the 737-800, 737 MAX 8, and larger planes. Southwest will really need to have planes smaller than the 737-800 and 737 MAX 8 and similar in size to the 737-700 in its fleet before the retirement of its last 737-700 planes.

Southwest usually uses the 737-700 on routes to and from its smaller markets, and Southwest would use the 737 MAX 7 on the same routes that it currently uses the 737-700 planes on, but Southwest currently does have lots of 737-700 planes available, and at least 18 of these 737-700s are less than 7 years old.

Will Boeing and Embraer be developing a jointly designed lengthened version of the E195 to replace the 737-700 and to better compete against the CS100/CS300 planes? Will Southwest look at ordering CS100 or CS300 planes to replace some of its 737-700s in the future?

william · Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:18 am

ADrum23 wrote:
I'd just cancel the MAX 7 and exercise all the remaining options on the MAX 8's, then order the MAX 10 and the 797/MOM (when it becomes available). What is the point of keeping only 30 MAX 7's anyway? Where will they use them? It is not nearly enough for them to replace all the 737-700's they have (unless the 738's and the MAX 8's are the long term replacement for the 737-700's).

You mean this?

Jshank83 · Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:48 am

Cubsrule wrote:

When the 738 first arrived, 738 flights with 40 or 50 empty seats were quite common. Now, while you will see empty seats, it’s rare to see a 738 booked to less than 143. I can think of only two I’ve been on recently, and one was a Tuesday afternoon and the other was Christmas.

I was on the last flight of the night out of HOU with about 75 on it in November. But it was a Wednesday so I am sure that factored in. Usually, they are pretty full.

CRJ900 · Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:02 am

WNCrew wrote:

I agree... though I think I remember being told the MAX7 would actually hold more than 150 (once Boeing added the additional overwing exit on each side)... after the fuselage stretch. I forget what it was now.[/quote]

With four overwing exits, the MAX 7 can take 172 pax at 28-29 inch pitch, with two lavs and a tiny galley on the back wall.

MIflyer12 · Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:36 pm

jplatts wrote:
There are SWA routes to and from some of the smaller markets served by Southwest Airlines where the 737-800 and 737 MAX 8 are too big and where the 737-700, 737 MAX 7, or mainline aircraft slightly smaller than the 737-700 are a better fit than the 737-800, 737 MAX 8, and larger planes. Southwest will really need to have planes smaller than the 737-800 and 737 MAX 8 and similar in size to the 737-700 in its fleet before the retirement of its last 737-700 planes.

Southwest has over 500 active -700s, some delivered as recently as 2011. There should be zero operational urgency to take MAX 7s.

Dominion301 · Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:51 pm

hOMSaR wrote:
rbavfan wrote:
hOMSaR wrote:
Are the prototype 7s, at least two of which have already been largely built (at least the fuselage is assembled) destined for WN? How would their deferral affect the prototype production (or would those go to WS)?

With 30 planes on order, deferring 23 of them means they'd only have 7 non-deferred planes. I don't know the delivery schedule, but I can't imagine WN would want to operate a subfleet of only 7 planes for an extended period of time. Perhaps those 7 are either scheduled towards the end of the original delivery period, or it was already too late to do anything about those planes without significant penalty, so they'll just take them and push the rest out until they can figure out what to do with them.

Same crew rating, engines & parts. It would not be a big problem.

I would think it would be, operationally. The MAX 7 will have a different capacity from any other type in the fleet (IIRC, 149 vs. 143). This means they'd have to keep those specific frames on certain routes, or they'd have to book to the lower capacity until very close-in, then release the extra 6 seats for sale, and then hope they don't have a day-of-departure equipment swap. Or if they swap to the -800 or MAX 8, then they'd have a bunch of extra seats flying around, and meanwhile the flight that was supposed to get the 8 now has a 7 instead.

They can easily swap between the -800 and MAX 8 without much of a problem because they have the same capacity. But having just a fleet of 7 planes with a different capacity seems like more trouble than it would be worth.

We've seen WN do that historically with the 732 and 735 as they neared retirement, they largely stayed close to DAL/Texas. The same could be done with the early 737-7 fleet or like you said block off 7 seats and rotate them all over the network.

Are there any airports that WN serves that really can't handle a 738/7M8 (e.g. DL's use of their small 73G fleet at places like EYW)? I know WN pretty much exclusively sends 73Gs to BUR, but AS sends 738s to BUR.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net