jbs2886
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:48 pm

gennadius wrote:
travelhound wrote:
From where I sit the announcement for 5 748F's was simply a rehash of some of the twenty 748F's ordered 3 years ago at an airshow.


The twice announced 20 frame commitment for 748Fs was never more than a MoU, and it was acknowledged when those commitments were announced that they would be firmed over the next 6 to 7 years. So, from that perspective, this is a new firm order, as it should actually go into the books now.


Correct. There was never an order for 20 frames. There was a commitment, now there are orders. These comments are getting tiresome.
 
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Polot
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:50 pm

It should be noted that Macquarie AirFinance's and Goshawk’s orders for 20 A320neos each, announced as firm at the FIA (and implied/thought to be new), were in fact previously booked and are now identified. Why Airbus didn’t mentioned this in those press releases? Who knows.
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:41 pm

scbriml wrote:
Momo1435 wrote:
We will see later this year how much will actually be firmed up. But it would be good if Airbus would be a bit more accurate when it comes to announcements for new orders and show totals. Let's wait and see what Boeing has made of their monthly totals, that should come next week but I'm hoping they do them later today even though that's unlikely.


Alternatively, we could just simply count what each OEM books each month. Then there's no need to get excited about PR fluff. :scratchchin:


Yes, then we can post here about the actual orders signed sealed and delivered. There should be a separate thread about Air Show Drama. Things like EK not firming up their 787 order of the last show are not orders yet and shouldn't be discussed here. When it is an order, or the monthly updates of the new orders.
 
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tistpaa727
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:09 pm

goosebayguy wrote:
I'm of a mind that the A220's should not be used when comparing numbers between Boeing and Airbus. At present we are roughly comparing like with like both manufacturers make similar aircraft but the A220 will skew these figures and make a nonsense of the comparison as Boeing does not make such an aircraft.

Anyone else agree?


While I can see the thought process behind your statement, if the A220 is on the Airbus product sheet as in they offer the models for sale by their sales people then they should include it in the numbers. Just because Boeing does not have a like product in their line up should not disqualify Airbus from counting the A220.

While not an acquisition exactly I liken it to one company acquiring another and counting the new customers as their own. We do it all the time, even if it is a subsidiary.
Don't sweat the little things.
 
SC430
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:35 am

goosebayguy wrote:
I'm of a mind that the A220's should not be used when comparing numbers between Boeing and Airbus. At present we are roughly comparing like with like both manufacturers make similar aircraft but the A220 will skew these figures and make a nonsense of the comparison as Boeing does not make such an aircraft.

Anyone else agree?


The fact is the present practice of looking at number of frames is already nonsense. It should be done by tabulating list price. 2017 is a great example. Most folks gave the order crown to Airbus due to a large narrow body order at the bell, but the value of Boeing's orders was higher. It makes no sense to count a 777 and a A320 equally. IMHO
 
chiad
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:28 am

SC430 wrote:
goosebayguy wrote:
I'm of a mind that the A220's should not be used when comparing numbers between Boeing and Airbus. At present we are roughly comparing like with like both manufacturers make similar aircraft but the A220 will skew these figures and make a nonsense of the comparison as Boeing does not make such an aircraft.

Anyone else agree?


The fact is the present practice of looking at number of frames is already nonsense. It should be done by tabulating list price. 2017 is a great example. Most folks gave the order crown to Airbus due to a large narrow body order at the bell, but the value of Boeing's orders was higher. It makes no sense to count a 777 and a A320 equally. IMHO


The problem with that is that you have no idea of the value for these deals.
List prices cannot be used because they mean little or nothing. No airline buys from list prices (except maybe Ryanair if they went for Airbus).
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:26 pm

It’s been enjoyable tracking A and B orders since they have generally had similar portfolios. If Airbus has a product now that expands their portfolio, that’s just the way it goes. If/when the Boeing/Embraer deal goes through, it’ll change again. However, by that time we’ll have products stretching from the low end of regional to the high end of VLA, and those sell in remarkably different quantities for remarkably different price points. Suffice it to say, it’s going to be a bit apples to oranges from here on out.
-Dave


”Yet somewhere in Iceland a great anger stirred in the soul of a troubled individual...” - Revelation
 
SC430
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:36 am

chiad wrote:
SC430 wrote:
goosebayguy wrote:
I'm of a mind that the A220's should not be used when comparing numbers between Boeing and Airbus. At present we are roughly comparing like with like both manufacturers make similar aircraft but the A220 will skew these figures and make a nonsense of the comparison as Boeing does not make such an aircraft.

Anyone else agree?


The fact is the present practice of looking at number of frames is already nonsense. It should be done by tabulating list price. 2017 is a great example. Most folks gave the order crown to Airbus due to a large narrow body order at the bell, but the value of Boeing's orders was higher. It makes no sense to count a 777 and a A320 equally. IMHO


The problem with that is that you have no idea of the value for these deals.
List prices cannot be used because they mean little or nothing. No airline buys from list prices (except maybe Ryanair if they went for Airbus).


Using list prices for comparing sales would be better than counting WB and NB equally.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:26 am

SC430 wrote:
chiad wrote:
SC430 wrote:

The fact is the present practice of looking at number of frames is already nonsense. It should be done by tabulating list price. 2017 is a great example. Most folks gave the order crown to Airbus due to a large narrow body order at the bell, but the value of Boeing's orders was higher. It makes no sense to count a 777 and a A320 equally. IMHO


The problem with that is that you have no idea of the value for these deals.
List prices cannot be used because they mean little or nothing. No airline buys from list prices (except maybe Ryanair if they went for Airbus).


Using list prices for comparing sales would be better than counting WB and NB equally.


List price is meaningless. Frankly, it’s all just for bragging rights anyhow. The reality is that there are far more important things, like margins for example.

I say keep doing what we do, knowing that it’s gonna skew weird based on what mix each OEM offers under their name. If A or B show more “orders” because they now have more products, so be it.
-Dave


”Yet somewhere in Iceland a great anger stirred in the soul of a troubled individual...” - Revelation
 
imthedreamliner
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:50 am

Hello Mods,

Can we think of a system that keeps this thread only for order, LOI and MOU announcements ? Time to time, there is some discussion which does not belong to this order announcement thread.

I will really appreciate that because I am sure many others like me would love to see and follow only order announcements on this thread. Rest of the discussion like " Should A220 order announcements be reported under Airbus or not " can be under a seperate thread.

Many Many Many Thanks
 
Someone83
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:47 pm

The leasing company CDB Aviation is converting its remaining 6 787-9 on order into 18 737-Max 8

This comes into addition to the previously 2 787s converted into 737-Max 8

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 8s-451012/
 
Flyglobal
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:52 pm

With regard to the way of counting manufacturers, with or w/o A220, I can care less, but if now the A220 is part of Airbus then it should count.

With regard of who wins: It's an advantage if you are not a fanboy of one manufacturer and can enjoy frequently both and also others. Beeing the temporary (Armchair) CEO for both (I switch chairs by the way) makes fun. Since years an iron reserve of popcorn is always available to enjoy some funny threads.

Flyglobal

Back to counting now.
 
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SQ22
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:57 pm

imthedreamliner wrote:
Hello Mods,

Can we think of a system that keeps this thread only for order, LOI and MOU announcements ? Time to time, there is some discussion which does not belong to this order announcement thread.

I will really appreciate that because I am sure many others like me would love to see and follow only order announcements on this thread. Rest of the discussion like " Should A220 order announcements be reported under Airbus or not " can be under a seperate thread.

Many Many Many Thanks


Thats what the purpose of the thread. So in case you consider something being of topic use the reporting funtion and we will have a look.

By the way may I remind you to keep this thread in topic? Feel free to open a new thread if you consider anything of the recent discussions need to be discussed in detail.
 
george77300
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:05 pm

JULY UPDATE SUMMARY (AIRBUS & BOEING)

Summary: 1st January - 31st July 2018

Airbus:
269 Gross Orders
214 Net Orders (156 x A320, 8 x A330, 36 x A350, 14 x A380) - (July +8 Net)

Boeing:
639 Gross Orders
487 Net Orders (334 x B737, 14 x B747, 20 x B767, 26 x B777, 93 x B787) - (July +27 Net)

NEW JULY ORDERS (Including Farnborough Air Show)

Airbus:

8 x A359 - Unidentified Customer

Boeing:

15 x B737 MAX - GOL
10 x B789 - Hawaiian Airlines
5 x B777F - Qatar Airways

-3 in B777 (not sure what)

That means a grand total of 38 orders booked from Farnborough Air Show...
A306 A313 A319 A320 A20N A321 A332 A333 A343 A345 A346 A388
B712 B733 B734 B735 B738 B38M B742 B744 B752 B763 B772 B77E B773 B77W B788 B789
AT75 AT76 B190 C208 DH3T E175 P46T SF34 SR20 SR22 TBM8
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:26 pm

So Boeing also had some more orders that were already booked. Plus some that are still a commitment / MoU. That evens it out with Airbus in a true duopoly style. Both should be more clear in their press releases.

The most surprising thing from Boeing's update is that Jet now 150 737 MAX on the order book for this year. I assumed that 1 of the orders was the Boeing Capital 737 MAX order from last month. But that one is still there, so it must be an order for another still unkown customer.

Edit:

The Boeing Capital order is still Jet. If you look they only have 125 737 MAX on order. Their 1st order of this year was canceled, see the high number of 737 cancelations. Somehow the website has issues with dealing with cancelations that happen in the same year as the order.
Last edited by Momo1435 on Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
george77300
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:32 pm

Momo1435 wrote:
So Boeing also had some more orders that were already booked. Plus some that are still a commitment / MoU. That evens it out with Airbus in a true duopoly style. Both should be more clear in their press releases.

The most surprising thing from Boeing's update is that Jet now 150 737 MAX on the order book for this year. I assumed that 1 of the orders was the Boeing Capital 737 MAX order from last month. But that one is still there, so it must be an order for another still unkown customer.


Yes it would be interesting to know that. Although could it be Jet Airways' 3rd order? They have ordered three separate 75 x 737 MAX within the last year although unsure if one of them was technically last year.

Also I'm curious to see what the 3 x 777 cancellations are.
A306 A313 A319 A320 A20N A321 A332 A333 A343 A345 A346 A388
B712 B733 B734 B735 B738 B38M B742 B744 B752 B763 B772 B77E B773 B77W B788 B789
AT75 AT76 B190 C208 DH3T E175 P46T SF34 SR20 SR22 TBM8
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:37 pm

Momo1435 wrote:
So Boeing also had some more orders that were already booked. Plus some that are still a commitment / MoU. That evens it out with Airbus in a true duopoly style. Both should be more clear in their press releases.

The most surprising thing from Boeing's update is that Jet now 150 737 MAX on the order book for this year. I assumed that 1 of the orders was the Boeing Capital 737 MAX order from last month. But that one is still there, so it must be an order for another still unkown customer.

Edit:

The Boeing Capital order is still Jet. If you look they only have 125 737 MAX on order. Their 1st order of this year was canceled, see the high number of 737 cancelations. Somehow the website has issues with dealing with cancelations that happen in the same year as the order.


It was quite clear in their press releases. It was that also last year at Paris.

MOUs, LOIs, commitments and options are not firm orders. Only firm orders are booked and shown.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:40 pm

So ANA is about to receive a brand new 737-800, when was this order placed?
 
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Stitch
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:45 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
So ANA is about to receive a brand new 737-800, when was this order placed?


According to Boeing's O&D page, they have already received all 737NG on order.
 
Geoff1947
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:50 pm

george77300 wrote:
Momo1435 wrote:
So Boeing also had some more orders that were already booked. Plus some that are still a commitment / MoU. That evens it out with Airbus in a true duopoly style. Both should be more clear in their press releases.

The most surprising thing from Boeing's update is that Jet now 150 737 MAX on the order book for this year. I assumed that 1 of the orders was the Boeing Capital 737 MAX order from last month. But that one is still there, so it must be an order for another still unkown customer.


Yes it would be interesting to know that. Although could it be Jet Airways' 3rd order? They have ordered three separate 75 x 737 MAX within the last year although unsure if one of them was technically last year.

Also I'm curious to see what the 3 x 777 cancellations are.


Previously listed as Unidentified and now cancelled. 10 more still in the Unidentified category.

Geoff
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:58 pm

Stitch wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
So ANA is about to receive a brand new 737-800, when was this order placed?


According to Boeing's O&D page, they have already received all 737NG on order.


https://twitter.com/aeroimageschris/sta ... 12352?s=21
 
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Stitch
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:30 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
Stitch wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
So ANA is about to receive a brand new 737-800, when was this order placed?


According to Boeing's O&D page, they have already received all 737NG on order.


https://twitter.com/aeroimageschris/sta ... 12352?s=21


Planespotters.net says it is a leased frame and last year ANA said they would lease four 737-800s to cover the EIS delay of the MRJ.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-ana-c ... KKBN1782XP
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:37 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
It was quite clear in their press releases. It was that also last year at Paris.

MOUs, LOIs, commitments and options are not firm orders. Only firm orders are booked and shown.

Boeing's Vistara press release for example.

"Boeing, Vistara Confirm Agreement for Up to Ten 787 Dreamliners"
http://boeing.mediaroom.com/news-releas ... tem=130253

No further mention of it still being a commitment or that it was previously booked. And now it turns out that it was no firm order in July and that it wasn't already on the books.


These are Boeing's standard disclaimers in the press releases when they announce an "order" without being a new firm order:

"The new orders will appear on Boeing's Orders & Deliveries website once all contingencies have been met."
"The order was previously posted as unidentified on Boeing's Orders and Deliveries website."


There are also enough announcements where they clearly state that it's an LoI or MoU.

I think that when the term "confirmation" is used we should be critical. That was also used for the Volga-Dnepr 747-8 order for which the actual status is also still unclear.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:58 pm

Stitch wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Stitch wrote:

According to Boeing's O&D page, they have already received all 737NG on order.


https://twitter.com/aeroimageschris/sta ... 12352?s=21


Planespotters.net says it is a leased frame and last year ANA said they would lease four 737-800s to cover the EIS delay of the MRJ.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-ana-c ... KKBN1782XP


Wonder why I couldn’t find this, thanks for info Stitch.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:25 pm

Momo1435 wrote:
Boeing's Vistara press release for example...No further mention of it still being a commitment or that it was previously booked. And now it turns out that it was no firm order in July and that it wasn't already on the books.

I think that when the term "confirmation" is used we should be critical.


The text seems pretty clear to me it was not a firm order with a signed sales contract, but instead was an LoI/MoU:

"Boeing and Vistara today confirmed the joint venture between Singapore Airlines and Tata Group, has agreed to order six 787-9 Dreamliners, with options for four more jets at the 2018 Farnborough International Airshow."


Momo1435 wrote:
That was also used for the Volga-Dnepr 747-8 order for which the actual status is also still unclear.


Again, the text is pretty clear:

"Boeing, Volga-Dnepr Group and CargoLogicHolding today signed a package of agreements that will further optimize the cargo transportation leaders' airplane fleet and global operations. The deals, announced at the 2018 Farnborough International Airshow, include a letter of intent to acquire 29 Boeing 777 Freighters, confirmation of an order for five Boeing 747-8 Freighters, the purchase of a crew pairing solution, and an agreement to work together on future freighter projects."

That the order did not appear on the July updates implies that the contract has not yet been signed at the air show, but then it did not have to be signed at the air show and can be signed at a later date.
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:04 am

Stitch wrote:
Momo1435 wrote:
Boeing's Vistara press release for example...No further mention of it still being a commitment or that it was previously booked. And now it turns out that it was no firm order in July and that it wasn't already on the books.

I think that when the term "confirmation" is used we should be critical.


The text seems pretty clear to me it was not a firm order with a signed sales contract, but instead was an LoI/MoU:

"Boeing and Vistara today confirmed the joint venture between Singapore Airlines and Tata Group, has agreed to order six 787-9 Dreamliners, with options for four more jets at the 2018 Farnborough International Airshow."


Momo1435 wrote:
That was also used for the Volga-Dnepr 747-8 order for which the actual status is also still unclear.


Again, the text is pretty clear:

"Boeing, Volga-Dnepr Group and CargoLogicHolding today signed a package of agreements that will further optimize the cargo transportation leaders' airplane fleet and global operations. The deals, announced at the 2018 Farnborough International Airshow, include a letter of intent to acquire 29 Boeing 777 Freighters, confirmation of an order for five Boeing 747-8 Freighters, the purchase of a crew pairing solution, and an agreement to work together on future freighter projects."

That the order did not appear on the July updates implies that the contract has not yet been signed at the air show, but then it did not have to be signed at the air show and can be signed at a later date.

Thank you for proving my point by giving a different interpretation of both press releases.

There used to be no room for any interpretation, it was always mentioned that the order was not firm yet if it wasn't clearly announced as a MoU or LoI, like these 2 press releases.

I wonder how airlines view this, do they really want to be used by the OEMs in these inflation games at the shows. I think we will see more announcements outside of these shows, when the airlines are actually signing deals when the deal is done for real.
 
Geoff1947
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:44 am

Personally I ignore all announcements before they are included in the published order books. Even then some of these never get fulfilled. Both Airbus and Boeing have hyperactive PR departments which must drive the real workers mad !!

Geoff
 
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Stitch
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:42 pm

Momo1435 wrote:
I wonder how airlines view this, do they really want to be used by the OEMs in these inflation games at the shows.


If they didn't, then we wouldn't see it, since they are the ones signing the nine, ten and eleven figure checks.

I would not be surprised at all if it is the airlines driving these announcements rather than the OEMs. Farnborough and Paris are the one time of the year the entire media, not just aviation and financial, pay attention and give coverage to these kinds of deals so it is as important, if not more so, to the customers than it is the OEMs in terms of getting mainstream press and public exposure.
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:26 pm

Stitch wrote:
If they didn't, then we wouldn't see it, since they are the ones signing the nine, ten and eleven figure checks.

I would not be surprised at all if it is the airlines driving these announcements rather than the OEMs. Farnborough and Paris are the one time of the year the entire media, not just aviation and financial, pay attention and give coverage to these kinds of deals so it is as important, if not more so, to the customers than it is the OEMs in terms of getting mainstream press and public exposure.

That's not in line with the increasing number of unidentified announcements at the airshow. Of course some airline might still want to use the publicity, but others clearly do seem to be shying away from these kind of just PR events.

I agree with the sentiments that we should only look at the monthly numbers. But that would also mean that we have to temper the yearly build up to these shows. When you know that most announcements are already booked or will only be firmed up at a later date, whenever that may be, it's just not worth all the fuss.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:40 pm

Geoff1947 wrote:
Personally I ignore all announcements before they are included in the published order books. Even then some of these never get fulfilled. Both Airbus and Boeing have hyperactive PR departments which must drive the real workers mad !!

Geoff


That sentiment would have you got hanged after Paris last year. The 737-10 rush is an example.

Looking back, both at Paris 2017 and Farborough this year, there is little that actually happened at the shows, most happened during the year before and after the show and what matters are the year end net numbers of firm orders.
 
Someone83
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:26 am

BOC Aviation will order 8 A330neo, to be leased to Lion Air

As BOC currently has two aircraft on order, this is either a new order or this belongs to the 14 orders from an unidentified customer in June 2018. Although I think it is an new order, as BOC states it will take their orderbook to 10 aircraft (They already had 2 on order)

https://www.bocaviation.com/en/press-re ... o-lion-air
 
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:34 am

Air New Zealand commits to 7 more A321neo’s

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... os-451351/
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mjoelnir
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:46 am

Someone83 wrote:
BOC Aviation will order 8 A330neo, to be leased to Lion Air

As BOC currently has two aircraft on order, this is either a new order or this belongs to the 14 orders from an unidentified customer in June 2018. Although I think it is an new order, as BOC states it will take their orderbook to 10 aircraft (They already had 2 on order)

https://www.bocaviation.com/en/press-re ... o-lion-air


It can hardly be an undeclared order being declared now. BOC aviation defines what they have on order, that were 2 and they are adding 8 more.
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:08 pm

The BOC press release is worded exactly the same as their 787 order for Air Europa from 01 June 2018, where they took over an order from that airline.

Lion Air was already rumored to be behind the undisclosed order for 10 A330neo's placed on 04 June 2018. So this BOC deal could be the financing for that undisclosed Lion Air deal.

We know for sure when the August totals are released. But if Airbus doesn't issue a press release today or tomorrow it will be a big indication that it will not be a new order.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:24 pm

Momo1435 wrote:
The BOC press release is worded exactly the same as their 787 order for Air Europa from 01 June 2018, where they took over an order from that airline.

Lion Air was already rumored to be behind the undisclosed order for 10 A330neo's placed on 04 June 2018. So this BOC deal could be the financing for that undisclosed Lion Air deal.

We know for sure when the August totals are released. But if Airbus doesn't issue a press release today or tomorrow it will be a big indication that it will not be a new order.


BOC did not mention if the 2 and the 8 A330neo go to the same customer. Who would than be responsible for 4 or 6 frames of the 14 frames undisclosed order in June. Do we expect it to be Lion Air taking the rest themselves or still having to find the next leasing company to take those birds over?
 
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Polot
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:43 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Momo1435 wrote:
The BOC press release is worded exactly the same as their 787 order for Air Europa from 01 June 2018, where they took over an order from that airline.

Lion Air was already rumored to be behind the undisclosed order for 10 A330neo's placed on 04 June 2018. So this BOC deal could be the financing for that undisclosed Lion Air deal.

We know for sure when the August totals are released. But if Airbus doesn't issue a press release today or tomorrow it will be a big indication that it will not be a new order.


BOC did not mention if the 2 and the 8 A330neo go to the same customer. Who would than be responsible for 4 or 6 frames of the 14 frames undisclosed order in June. Do we expect it to be Lion Air taking the rest themselves or still having to find the next leasing company to take those birds over?

The undisclosed order from June is 10 frames, not 14. It is possible that if that is Lion air they are taking the other 2 of the order themselves through different financing options, and the other 2 BOC orders are probably for someone else. The BOC PR does say Lionair has the option to acquire 4 of the planes at delivery (which lends credence to the theory that BOC is taking over a order), and taking over other airline’s orders and then leasing the planes back to them has been BOC’s MO as of late. We have to wait a few more weeks though.
 
LifelinerOne
Posts: 1565
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:30 pm

Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:13 am

Air New Zealand is set to expand its fleet with seven more A321neos after posting a profit. Deliveries are expected between 2020 and 2024.

https://newsroom.aviator.aero/second-hi ... f-bonuses/

Cheers! :wave:
Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
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qf789
Moderator
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:03 pm

Virgin Australia converts 10 737MAX8 to 737MAX10

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2018-08-29- ... 0-Customer
Forum Moderator
 
george77300
Posts: 810
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:33 pm

AUGUST UPDATE SUMMARY (Airbus & Boeing)

Airbus Summary: 1st January - 31st August 2018

274 Gross Orders
219 Net Orders (161 x A320, 8 x A330, 36 x A350, 14 x A380) - (August +5 Net)

Boeing Summary: 1st January - 31st July 2018 - (Still July Numbers)

639 Gross Orders
487 Net Orders (334 x B737, 14 x B747, 20 x B767, 26 x B777, 93 x B787) - (July +27 Net)


NEW AIRBUS AUGUST ORDERS (Boeing still July Numbers)

Airbus:

3 x A320ceo - Lufthansa
2 x A321neo - Air New Zealand
A306 A313 A319 A320 A20N A321 A332 A333 A343 A345 A346 A388
B712 B733 B734 B735 B738 B38M B742 B744 B752 B763 B772 B77E B773 B77W B788 B789
AT75 AT76 B190 C208 DH3T E175 P46T SF34 SR20 SR22 TBM8
 
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Momo1435
Posts: 720
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:19 pm

Boeing orders August.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/

Boeing Capital: 1x 777F
Boeing Capital: 5x 787-9 (Hawaiian canceled 5)

ALC: 30X 737MAX
ALC: 3x 787-9

AGC: 30x 737MAX

Unidentified: 40x 737MAX
 
george77300
Posts: 810
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 8:33 pm

Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:35 pm

Boeing Updated numbers in and once again a great month from Boeing with a net of 94 new orders compared to Airbus' 5 bringing new year net order totals to 581 and 219 respectively.

AUGUST UPDATE SUMMARY (Airbus & Boeing)

Boeing Summary: 1st January - 31st August 2018

738 Gross Orders
581 Net Orders (424 x B737, 14 x B747, 20 x B767, 27 x B777, 96 x B787) - (August +94 Net)

Airbus Summary: 1st January - 31st August 2018

274 Gross Orders
219 Net Orders (161 x A320, 8 x A330, 36 x A350, 14 x A380) - (August +5 Net)

NEW AUGUST ORDERS

Boeing:
40 x 737 MAX - Unidentified
30 x 737 MAX - Aviation Capital Group
30 x 737 MAX - ALC
3 x 787-9 - ALC
5 x 787-9 - Boeing Capital (likely the Hawaiian cancel of 5)
1 x 777F - Boeing Capital

As a further point due to net orders, 10 of the 100 MAX ordered this month must be swaps with the other 90 being new orders.

Airbus:
3 x A320ceo - Lufthansa
2 x A321neo - Air New Zealand
A306 A313 A319 A320 A20N A321 A332 A333 A343 A345 A346 A388
B712 B733 B734 B735 B738 B38M B742 B744 B752 B763 B772 B77E B773 B77W B788 B789
AT75 AT76 B190 C208 DH3T E175 P46T SF34 SR20 SR22 TBM8
 
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Erebus
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:39 pm

Momo1435 wrote:
Boeing Capital: 5x 787-9 (Hawaiian canceled 5)


Hello, is there any more information on this? A little strange after the order was firmed up only two months ago.

Edit: Just realised, Hawaiian is getting 10 in total still, correct?
 
george77300
Posts: 810
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:44 pm

Erebus wrote:
Momo1435 wrote:
Boeing Capital: 5x 787-9 (Hawaiian canceled 5)


Hello, is there any more information on this? A little strange after the order was firmed up only two months ago.

Hawaiian can't seem to make up their mind on their widebody future...


Not a clue. The Hawaiian order (18th July) is now changed for 5 x B789 (rather than 10) and on the 9th August Boeing Capital picked up a 5 x 789 order. Likely this was changed on this date and Hawaiian could still take all 10 frames. A bit like Boeing has the 22 788 orders for American as some sort of deal. Alternatively they could have decided two weeks later to cancel half of their firm order which seems very unlikely.
A306 A313 A319 A320 A20N A321 A332 A333 A343 A345 A346 A388
B712 B733 B734 B735 B738 B38M B742 B744 B752 B763 B772 B77E B773 B77W B788 B789
AT75 AT76 B190 C208 DH3T E175 P46T SF34 SR20 SR22 TBM8
 
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Momo1435
Posts: 720
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:44 pm

Erebus wrote:
Momo1435 wrote:
Boeing Capital: 5x 787-9 (Hawaiian canceled 5)


Hello, is there any more information on this? A little strange after the order was firmed up only two months ago.

Edit: Just realised, Hawaiian is getting 10 in total still, correct?

Correct, they will now lease 5 from Boeing.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 1840
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:07 pm

george77300 wrote:
Boeing Updated numbers in and once again a great month from Boeing with a net of 94 new orders compared to Airbus' 5 bringing new year net order totals to 581 and 219 respectively.

AUGUST UPDATE SUMMARY (Airbus & Boeing)

Boeing Summary: 1st January - 31st August 2018

738 Gross Orders
581 Net Orders (424 x B737, 14 x B747, 20 x B767, 27 x B777, 96 x B787) - (August +94 Net)

Airbus Summary: 1st January - 31st August 2018

274 Gross Orders
219 Net Orders (161 x A320, 8 x A330, 36 x A350, 14 x A380) - (August +5 Net)

NEW AUGUST ORDERS

Boeing:
40 x 737 MAX - Unidentified
30 x 737 MAX - Aviation Capital Group
30 x 737 MAX - ALC
3 x 787-9 - ALC
5 x 787-9 - Boeing Capital (likely the Hawaiian cancel of 5)
1 x 777F - Boeing Capital

As a further point due to net orders, 10 of the 100 MAX ordered this month must be swaps with the other 90 being new orders.

Airbus:
3 x A320ceo - Lufthansa
2 x A321neo - Air New Zealand


I'm guessing the ACG order is on top of the 20 ordered at Farnborough? http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2018-07-17- ... 737-MAX-8s
 
george77300
Posts: 810
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 8:33 pm

Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:16 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
george77300 wrote:
Boeing Updated numbers in and once again a great month from Boeing with a net of 94 new orders compared to Airbus' 5 bringing new year net order totals to 581 and 219 respectively.

AUGUST UPDATE SUMMARY (Airbus & Boeing)

Boeing Summary: 1st January - 31st August 2018

738 Gross Orders
581 Net Orders (424 x B737, 14 x B747, 20 x B767, 27 x B777, 96 x B787) - (August +94 Net)

Airbus Summary: 1st January - 31st August 2018

274 Gross Orders
219 Net Orders (161 x A320, 8 x A330, 36 x A350, 14 x A380) - (August +5 Net)

NEW AUGUST ORDERS

Boeing:
40 x 737 MAX - Unidentified
30 x 737 MAX - Aviation Capital Group
30 x 737 MAX - ALC
3 x 787-9 - ALC
5 x 787-9 - Boeing Capital (likely the Hawaiian cancel of 5)
1 x 777F - Boeing Capital

As a further point due to net orders, 10 of the 100 MAX ordered this month must be swaps with the other 90 being new orders.

Airbus:
3 x A320ceo - Lufthansa
2 x A321neo - Air New Zealand


I'm guessing the ACG order is on top of the 20 ordered at Farnborough? http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2018-07-17- ... 737-MAX-8s


No. This is the firming of the 20 from Farnborough. That is mine and Momo1435's mistake. The ACG order is 20 737 MAX. (I have checked and our other values are correct.) This also means all 90 737 Max orders are new orders and no conversions.
A306 A313 A319 A320 A20N A321 A332 A333 A343 A345 A346 A388
B712 B733 B734 B735 B738 B38M B742 B744 B752 B763 B772 B77E B773 B77W B788 B789
AT75 AT76 B190 C208 DH3T E175 P46T SF34 SR20 SR22 TBM8
 
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Momo1435
Posts: 720
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:41 pm

The 30 for ACG was a typo.

There were also some reveals of unidentified orders, but nothing surprising. A couple of 767s for UPS and a 3 777s for FedEx.


And news for September.

18 new orders for the 767.

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2018-09-10- ... uction-Lot

"Boeing Awarded $2.9 Billion for Fourth KC-46A Tanker Production Lot"

EVERETT, Wash., Sept. 10, 2018 – The U.S. Air Force today awarded Boeing [NYSE: BA] a $2.9 billion contract for 18 KC-46A tanker aircraft, spares, support equipment, spare engines and wing air refueling pod kits. With this fourth production lot, Boeing now is on contract for 52 KC-46 tankers.
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 15781
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:39 pm

imthedreamliner wrote:
Hello Mods,

Can we think of a system that keeps this thread only for order, LOI and MOU announcements ? Time to time, there is some discussion which does not belong to this order announcement thread.

I will really appreciate that because I am sure many others like me would love to see and follow only order announcements on this thread. Rest of the discussion like " Should A220 order announcements be reported under Airbus or not " can be under a seperate thread.

Many Many Many Thanks

Please flag off topic messages.

At this time the A220 is an Airbus product, until that Changes, it belongs in this thread.

We are getting more formal in deleting off topic messages now that the order and delivery threads have a known rythem. It should be commitments (but I too think announcements happen prematurely and with repetition), orders, and delivery progress:
Parts started, parts at FAL, FAL photos (in general or plane X), roll outs, test progress & painting, delivery (formal/contract), and delivery flight.

Please forgive our lapses as we are volunteers and enthusiasts.

Lightsaber

PS:. PLEASE start new side threads. If someone mentions something worthy of further discussion quote and say "Detailed discussion on... Say paint formula in:. (link)

From then on, flag off topic posts and we will clean up.
You only have the first amendment with the 2nd. If you're not going to offend someone with what you say, you don't have the 1st.
 
pabloeing
Posts: 461
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:00 pm

Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:26 pm

Fantastic month for Boeing
 
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qf789
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Re: Airbus And Boeing 2018 Orders

Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:45 pm

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