george77300 wrote:

JUNE UPDATE SUMMARY (AIRBUS & BOEING)

Summary: 1st January - 30th June 2018

Airbus:
261 Gross Orders
206 Net Orders (156 x A320, 8 x A330, 28 x A350, 14 x A380) - (June +95 Net)

Boeing:
609 Gross Orders
460 Net Orders (319 x B737, 14 x B747, 20 x B767, 24 x B777, 83 x B787) - (June +151 Net)

NEW JUNE ORDERS

Airbus:

10 x A339neo - Unidentified Customer
25 x A359 - Turkish Airlines
2 x A332 - IAG (Level)
20 x A320neo - Unidentified Customer
3 x A320ceo - Lufthansa
20 x A320neo - Aegean Airlines
10 x A321neo - Aegean Airlines
10 x A359 - Unidentified Customer

Boeing:

75 x B737 MAX - Boeing Capital Corporation
1 x B737 MAX - Business Jet / VIP Customer
11 x B767F - FedEx Express
9 x B777F - FedEx Express
75 x B737 MAX - Unidentified Customer
20 x B737 MAX - Unidentified Customer
30 x B737 MAX - Unidentified Customer
2 x B767F - Unidentified Customer
10 x B777F - Unidentified Customer

Quite a lot of new net orders for both this month. 95 for Airbus and 156 for Boeing.

As mentioned the 75 737MAX for Undisclosed likely Jet Airways although unsure about the Boeing Capital one. Or possibly the other way around.

Ihssane Mounir, Boeing's senior VP of sales and marketing, said after the FX announcement that Boeing had more freighter orders that would be revealed before and during Farnborough so I expect the 767F and 777F UFOs will be identified at the air show (with possibly additional orders signed in July, as well).

Wow Airbus better buckle up to catch up with Boeing this year.
Dont think there will be another 400 A320 orders aircraft for them to log in this year in order to catch up with Boeing

junlinwong94 wrote:

Wow Airbus better buckle up to catch up with Boeing this year.
Dont think there will be another 400 A320 orders aircraft for them to log in this year in order to catch up with Boeing

Here's the thing: Starting July 1st, they will be able to add the A220 family orders to their totals. That might start adding up over time

With the new monthly updates Boeing stopped giving a small written recap of the orders that used to also include the number of cancellations in the month. The 2 large 737 orders are actually both Jet Airways as their previous order for 75 was cancelled last month. So Boeing Capital Corporation is now financing their 2nd order, they will now lease them to Jet. The new one was booked as a unidentified order, which could either be Boeing or Jet.

Jet Airways has now 50 MAX left on order from their original couple of orders, that was also 75, but part of it had already been transferred to a leasing company.

Guess Airbus can bag that order for 60 A220-300 from JetBlue into their books.

In addition a conversion for 25 A320neo into A321neo

Jetblue order is a MOU for now:
https://twitter.com/Airbus/status/1016789010763612161

Someone83 wrote:

Guess Airbus can bag that order for 60 A220-300 from JetBlue into their books.

In addition a conversion for 25 A320neo into A321neo

With the addition of regional jets now a done deal it's time to look at the value of sales and delivery closer. Counting a A220 equally with an A380 when the latter costs five times more is just stupid.

(Even if Airbus makes more money on the A200)

SC430 wrote:

With the addition of regional jets now a done deal it's time to look at the value of sales and delivery closer. Counting a A220 equally with an A380 when the latter costs five times more is just stupid.

Considering that here so far a 737-7 and a 787-10 were dropped into the same bag, I’d say you logic is not strong (but won’t say “stupid”)

Jayafe wrote:

SC430 wrote:

With the addition of regional jets now a done deal it's time to look at the value of sales and delivery closer. Counting a A220 equally with an A380 when the latter costs five times more is just stupid.

Considering that here so far a 737-7 and a 787-10 were dropped into the same bag, I’d say you logic is not strong (but won’t say “stupid”)

I think you just agreed with me, but din't realize it.

Vistara places order for 13 Airbus A320neo and 6 Boeing 787-9.
From Reuters:
"11-Jul-2018 07:53:47
SINGAPORE, July 11 (Reuters) - Indian airline Vistara on Wednesday said it had placed firm orders for 13 Airbus SE AIR.PA A320neos and six Boeing Co BA.N 787 jets valued at $3.1 billion at list prices.
The carrier, a joint venture between India's Tata Sons Ltd TATAS.UL and Singapore Airlines Ltd SIAL.SI, said it also had purchase rights over 5 more 787-9s, options over 7 more A320neos and would procure another 37 A320neos from leasing companies.
Vistara said it would use the jets to add domestic flights and support the launch of international operations planned for later this year."

DHL and Boeing announce order for 14 777F’s, part if order already listed as UFO

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2018-07-16- ... Freighters

Farnborough Air Show order haul:

Airbus:

Firm orders
Wataniya Airways; 25x A320neo (Firm)
Goshawk Aviation Limited: 20x A320neo (Firm)
Macquarie AirFinance; 20x A320neo (Firm)
SalamAir: 1x A320neo (Firm) + (5 leases)
Undisclosed customer: 8x A350-900 (Firm)
Viva Aerobus: 25x A321neo (Firm) + (16x A321neo upconversions)
AirAsia X: 34 A330-900 (Firm)

Revealed:
Sichuan Airlines: 10x A350-900 (UFO)

MoU, LoI, commitments:
StarLux: 12x A350-1000 & 5x A350-900 (MoU)
VISTARA: 13x A320neo (LoI)
Undisclosed: 80x A320neo (MoU)
Undisclosed customer: 25x A321neo + 75x A320neo (MoU)
new U.S. airline start-up (David Neeleman) 60x A220-300 (MoU)
Undisclosed customer: 6x A330neo (MoU)
Uganda Airlines: 2x A330neo (MoU)
Undisclosed customer: 10x A320neo (MoU)
VietJet: 50 A321neo (MoU)


Boeing:

Firm:
Qatar Airways: 5x 777F (Firm)
GOL: 15x 737 MAX (Firm) + (30x 737 MAX 10 Conversion from existing order)
Air Lease Corporation: 3x 787-9 + 20x 737 MAX (Firm) + 55x 737 MAX (Commitment)
VISTARA: 6x 787-9 (Firm ? ) + 4 options
Volga-Dnepr Group: 5x 747-F (Firm) + 29x 777F (LoI)
Hawaiian Airlines: 10x 787-9 (Firm) + 10x purchase rights
Seacons Trading: 1x 737 MAX 7 BBJ (Firm)

Revealed:
DHL: 14x 777F (part UFO (most likely 10), part MoU) + 7 purchase rights
Jackson Square Aviation: 30x 737 MAX (UFO)
United Airlines: 4x 787-9 (UFO)
Tarom: 5x 737 MAX (UFO)
Goshawk Aviation: 20x 737 MAX (UFO)
Jet Airways: 75x 737 MAX (UFO)

MoU, LoI, commitments:
Aviation Capital Group: 20x 737 MAX (Commitment)
VietJet: 80x 737 MAX 10 + 20x 737 MAX 8 (MoU)
4 Undisclosed customers: 93x 737 MAX 8 (commitment)
Unidentified customer: 100x 737 MAX (commitment)
Two unidentified customers: 15x 787-9 (commitment)
Novus Aviation Capital: 4x 777-300ER (commitment)

Boeing also candidly revealed that Etihad (787-9?), Malaysian Airlines (737 MAX?) and Nippon Cargo Airlines (777F?) are airlines behind some of this years unidentified orders. The model is just a guess based on the Unidentified orders placed this year.

I’ll be interested to see when these FIA announcements make it to the Airbus and Boeing orderbooks.

Geoff

Russian airline Pobeda has ordered 15 B737MAX8s:

https://newsroom.aviator.aero/pobeda-or ... from-2019/

Cheers!

Momo1435 wrote:

Revealed:

Excellent Revelations!

^

LifelinerOne wrote:

Russian airline Pobeda has ordered 15 B737MAX8s:

https://newsroom.aviator.aero/pobeda-or ... from-2019/

Cheers!

This probably would have been an announcement at Farnborough if the Russian state companies hadn't boycotted the show. It might be included it in 1 of the unrevealed MoUs.

LifelinerOne wrote:

Russian airline Pobeda has ordered 15 B737MAX8s:

https://newsroom.aviator.aero/pobeda-or ... from-2019/

Cheers!

Good catch! Any one has the latest breakdown for B737MAX family Vs. A320neo family? And delivery figures as of today? MoU, LoI, commitment, non-commitments whatever...

Disclaimer: Not for creating flame war.

I think this is the highlight for me. Etihad ordering more aircraft! Despite everyone saying they would be cancelling loads this year.

In the other Cases Nippon Cargo is most likely B777F and MAS could be firming up their 787/737 MAX MOU from last year?

Momo1435 wrote:

Boeing also candidly revealed that Etihad (787-9?), Malaysian Airlines (737 MAX?) and Nippon Cargo Airlines (777F?) are airlines behind some of this years unidentified orders. The model is just a guess based on the Unidentified orders placed this year.

If Nippon Cargo ordered anything (there is always a possibility that someone at Boeing made a mistake and confused Nippon Cargo with ANA Cargo- ANA did use to own part of NCA after all) it has to be the 3 UFO 777Fs placed in Feb (assuming 10 777Fs ordered last month was DHL). Or they are going much smaller and ordering 767F (2 UFO orders totalling 5 on the books).

I fully expect that any new Etihad 787-order will see a reduction of their 777X-orders...

Cheers!

juliuswong wrote:

LifelinerOne wrote:

Russian airline Pobeda has ordered 15 B737MAX8s:

https://newsroom.aviator.aero/pobeda-or ... from-2019/

Cheers!

Good catch! Any one has the latest breakdown for B737MAX family Vs. A320neo family? And delivery figures as of today? MoU, LoI, commitment, non-commitments whatever...

Disclaimer: Not for creating flame war.

Better wait until Airbus and Boeing do the monthly updates in 1st and/or 2nd week of August. Then we know for sure how many new orders have been firmed up. Unless someone actually follows all the MoU's, LoI's, commitments it's going to be impossible to also include them in a breakdown. With all the UFO orders you never know if they include earlier commitments.

As far as we know now this are the firm order totals until 30 July + firm airshow orders:
Neo sales: 6140 + 91 = 6231
Max sales: 4649 + 36 = 4685

LifelinerOne wrote:

I fully expect that any new Etihad 787-order will see a reduction of their 777X-orders...

Cheers!

This order has supposedly already placed in the 1st half of this year as Unidentified, it's most likely an order for 4 789, it's the only UFO 789 order with GE engines booked so far this year. There has been no cancellation of a 777X order so far this year. So this possible order doesn't seem to be linked with a cancellation.

Maybe these deals will be fully identified with the next monthly order update.

Polot wrote:

If Nippon Cargo ordered anything (there is always a possibility that someone at Boeing made a mistake and confused Nippon Cargo with ANA Cargo- ANA did use to own part of NCA after all) it has to be the 3 UFO 777Fs placed in Feb (assuming 10 777Fs ordered last month was DHL). Or they are going much smaller and ordering 767F (2 UFO orders totalling 5 on the books).

ANA's 777F order is already listed last year under ANA Holdings on the order book.

Momo1435 wrote:

Polot wrote:

If Nippon Cargo ordered anything (there is always a possibility that someone at Boeing made a mistake and confused Nippon Cargo with ANA Cargo- ANA did use to own part of NCA after all) it has to be the 3 UFO 777Fs placed in Feb (assuming 10 777Fs ordered last month was DHL). Or they are going much smaller and ordering 767F (2 UFO orders totalling 5 on the books).

ANA's 777F order is already listed last year under ANA Holdings on the order book.

It was ordered this year (in March). I’m saying there is a possibility when preparing that slide that had Nippon Cargo on it someone at Boeing made a mistake and thought that was ANA’s cargo airline.

Momo1435 wrote:

LifelinerOne wrote:

I fully expect that any new Etihad 787-order will see a reduction of their 777X-orders...

Cheers!

This order has supposedly already placed in the 1st half of this year as Unidentified, it's most likely an order for 4 789, it's the only UFO 789 order with GE engines booked so far this year. There has been no cancellation of a 777X order so far this year. So this possible order doesn't seem to be linked with a cancellation.

Maybe these deals will be fully identified with the next monthly order update.

Isn't that GE 4 x B789 the UFO for United just announced?

Maybe Etihad threw a curve ball and are getting some B737 MAX 8 to replace their A319/A320 and compliment their A321neo of there are no more 787 UFO?

Polot wrote:

Momo1435 wrote:

Polot wrote:

If Nippon Cargo ordered anything (there is always a possibility that someone at Boeing made a mistake and confused Nippon Cargo with ANA Cargo- ANA did use to own part of NCA after all) it has to be the 3 UFO 777Fs placed in Feb (assuming 10 777Fs ordered last month was DHL). Or they are going much smaller and ordering 767F (2 UFO orders totalling 5 on the books).

ANA's 777F order is already listed last year under ANA Holdings on the order book.

It was ordered this year (in March). I’m saying there is a possibility when preparing that slide that had Nippon Cargo on it someone at Boeing made a mistake and thought that was ANA’s cargo airline.

ANA was also on the list, so then mistake would have also been that they listed 2 customers for this specific order. But it's still very possible they also placed a 777F order. We find out when the UFO orders will be revealed.

george77300 wrote:

Momo1435 wrote:

LifelinerOne wrote:

I fully expect that any new Etihad 787-order will see a reduction of their 777X-orders...

Cheers!

This order has supposedly already placed in the 1st half of this year as Unidentified, it's most likely an order for 4 789, it's the only UFO 789 order with GE engines booked so far this year. There has been no cancellation of a 777X order so far this year. So this possible order doesn't seem to be linked with a cancellation.

Maybe these deals will be fully identified with the next monthly order update.

Isn't that GE 4 x B789 the UFO for United just announced?

Maybe Etihad threw a curve ball and are getting some B737 MAX 8 to replace their A319/A320 and compliment their A321neo of there are no more 787 UFO?

You are right, so it must be something else as the only other UFO 787 orders are for single RR powered 788s. Could they have ordered a BBJ 737?

Momo1435 wrote:

george77300 wrote:

Momo1435 wrote:

This order has supposedly already placed in the 1st half of this year as Unidentified, it's most likely an order for 4 789, it's the only UFO 789 order with GE engines booked so far this year. There has been no cancellation of a 777X order so far this year. So this possible order doesn't seem to be linked with a cancellation.

Maybe these deals will be fully identified with the next monthly order update.

Isn't that GE 4 x B789 the UFO for United just announced?

Maybe Etihad threw a curve ball and are getting some B737 MAX 8 to replace their A319/A320 and compliment their A321neo of there are no more 787 UFO?

You are right, so it must be something else as the only other UFO 787 orders are for single RR powered 788s. Could they have ordered a BBJ 737?

Unlikely. Maybe a swap from some 789 to 78J and as upgrade it constitutes a new order? Also may not show in books as just 787 order potentially and the number will be the same. That's all I can think of. Unless they bought another B777F maybe? Not too sure but interested to see what when it's released.

No airshow hangover- Boc orders 17 a32xneo

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-boc-a ... SKBN1KD039

ap305 wrote:

No airshow hangover- Boc orders 17 a32xneo

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-boc-a ... SKBN1KD039

Their press release is a little strange, they are headlining 17 planes ordered, but later on say they also purchased another five A320neos, so a total of 22.

The press release is here: https://newsroom.aviator.aero/boc-aviat ... om-airbus/

Cheers!

Went over to Airbus Order and Delivery page, it currently still has A350-800 on its price list. Have Airbus officially cancel the sub-type? If yes, why is it still in listing?

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... lease.html

Momo1435 wrote:

juliuswong wrote:

LifelinerOne wrote:

Russian airline Pobeda has ordered 15 B737MAX8s:

https://newsroom.aviator.aero/pobeda-or ... from-2019/

Cheers!

Good catch! Any one has the latest breakdown for B737MAX family Vs. A320neo family? And delivery figures as of today? MoU, LoI, commitment, non-commitments whatever...

Disclaimer: Not for creating flame war.

Better wait until Airbus and Boeing do the monthly updates in 1st and/or 2nd week of August. Then we know for sure how many new orders have been firmed up. Unless someone actually follows all the MoU's, LoI's, commitments it's going to be impossible to also include them in a breakdown. With all the UFO orders you never know if they include earlier commitments.

As far as we know now this are the firm order totals until 30 July + firm airshow orders:
Neo sales: 6140 + 91 = 6231
Max sales: 4649 + 36 = 4685

Thanks Momo1435. Yes, I agree with you. I guess we just need to wait for both OEM to update their website. I used to follow both closely for single aisle order, but lost track after both went ballistic with hundreds of firm order, LoI, MOU or commitment, whatever for past two years. Simply impossible to track anymore as more lessors/ financing house came into play nowadays.

The BOC order for A320Neos is reported by Flight Global as being an assumption of an airline's order, so it sounds like the total sales remain the same, and this order will balanced by a cancellation of 17 frames by an airline.

PlanesNTrains wrote:

junlinwong94 wrote:

Wow Airbus better buckle up to catch up with Boeing this year.
Dont think there will be another 400 A320 orders aircraft for them to log in this year in order to catch up with Boeing

Here's the thing: Starting July 1st, they will be able to add the A220 family orders to their totals. That might start adding up over time

Do we know they will count A220 sales with their other counts. After all they only own half of the product line so an A220 sale is not a lot of cash.

SC430 wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

junlinwong94 wrote:

Wow Airbus better buckle up to catch up with Boeing this year.
Dont think there will be another 400 A320 orders aircraft for them to log in this year in order to catch up with Boeing

Here's the thing: Starting July 1st, they will be able to add the A220 family orders to their totals. That might start adding up over time

Do we know they will count A220 sales with their other counts. After all they only own half of the product line so an A220 sale is not a lot of cash.

The clue is in the name.

scbriml wrote:

SC430 wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

Here's the thing: Starting July 1st, they will be able to add the A220 family orders to their totals. That might start adding up over time

Do we know they will count A220 sales with their other counts. After all they only own half of the product line so an A220 sale is not a lot of cash.

The clue is in the name.

Sometimes it all feels harder than it needs to be.

Hello , this is orders thread. Can we keep general discussion outside ?

Airbus July Orders

8 X A350-900 Undisclosed

Total for year 214 net orders

https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/ ... eries.html

If I remember correctly, I'm not sure, but wasn't there a large airshow last month???


Seriously, Airbus did announce more firm orders at the show than this single one. I guess it was just all show at the show.

Momo1435 wrote:

If I remember correctly, I'm not sure, but wasn't there a large airshow last month???


Seriously, Airbus did announce more firm orders at the show than this single one. I guess it was just all show at the show.

There is a difference between firm orders and the MOIs, LOIs and options everybody gets so exited about at the airshows. I think not everything is confirmed from last years show in Paris yet.

mjoelnir wrote:

Momo1435 wrote:

If I remember correctly, I'm not sure, but wasn't there a large airshow last month???


Seriously, Airbus did announce more firm orders at the show than this single one. I guess it was just all show at the show.

There is a difference between firm orders and the MOIs, LOIs and options everybody gets so exited about at the airshows. I think not everything is confirmed from last years show in Paris yet.

That's not the issue.

Let's quote the press release Airbus put out at the end of the show.

"During the show the company won further new business for 431 aircraft (93 firm orders and 338 MoUs)


https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... rough.html

I can see that a couple of the firm orders announced were already booked earlier this year = Maquarie & Goshawk, but those 2 only totaled 40.....
93 - 40 = 8 ???

Remember the years when Airbus / Boeing revealed even more firm orders then were actually announced at "the airshow" the previous month / week before the new order update.

Momo1435 wrote:

I can see that a couple of the firm orders announced were already booked earlier this year = Maquarie & Goshawk, but those 2 only totaled 40.....
93 - 40 = 8 ???

The order for 10x A359s for Sichuan Airlines were previously in Undisclosed and are now under Sichuan Airlines. So those have been accounted for.

hkcanadaexpat wrote:

Momo1435 wrote:

I can see that a couple of the firm orders announced were already booked earlier this year = Maquarie & Goshawk, but those 2 only totaled 40.....
93 - 40 = 8 ???

The order for 10x A359s for Sichuan Airlines were previously in Undisclosed and are now under Sichuan Airlines. So those have been accounted for.

Let's count again

In these tweets you can see what Airbus presented per model:

https://twitter.com/thatjohn/status/1019901708619714560

Out of the 93 orders 52 where previously booked as unidentified = 41 new orders

The 93 broken down per model:
A320 = 51 firm orders
A330 = 34 firm orders
A350 = 8 firm orders

The AirAsia A330neo order was presented as firm, but isn't yet, which I remember was suggested by 1 news article after the show. So that's 41 - 34 = 7. So there were 7 firm A320 orders that turn out not to be firm at the end. I don't think it's possible to link these 7 to any of the announcements made at the show.

From the 52 previously booked as unidentified we know 48, that leaves 4 that can also not be linked directly one on one to any announcement.

Interestingly enough the 338 MoU's presented in the press release is exactly the number of orders that were announced as MoU/LoI at the show. That means that together with the conditional AirAsia order the Wataniya Airways, the SalamAir and the Viva Aerobus "firm" orders are questionable, or at least conditional. But then it would mean that these would have been MoUs.

We will see later this year how much will actually be firmed up. But it would be good if Airbus would be a bit more accurate when it comes to announcements for new orders and show totals. Let's wait and see what Boeing has made of their monthly totals, that should come next week but I'm hoping they do them later today even though that's unlikely.

Momo1435 wrote:

mjoelnir wrote:

Momo1435 wrote:

If I remember correctly, I'm not sure, but wasn't there a large airshow last month???


Seriously, Airbus did announce more firm orders at the show than this single one. I guess it was just all show at the show.

There is a difference between firm orders and the MOIs, LOIs and options everybody gets so exited about at the airshows. I think not everything is confirmed from last years show in Paris yet.

That's not the issue.

Let's quote the press release Airbus put out at the end of the show.

"During the show the company won further new business for 431 aircraft (93 firm orders and 338 MoUs)


https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... rough.html

I can see that a couple of the firm orders announced were already booked earlier this year = Maquarie & Goshawk, but those 2 only totaled 40.....
93 - 40 = 8 ???

Remember the years when Airbus / Boeing revealed even more firm orders then were actually announced at "the airshow" the previous month / week before the new order update.

I really agree with you Momo1435. IMO the announcement for "firm orders" has been watered out so much that it almost means nothing anymore. Though I suspect the announcement for firm orders will come into the orderbooks at some time, you can be sure it will be re-announced by then.

Momo1435 wrote:

We will see later this year how much will actually be firmed up. But it would be good if Airbus would be a bit more accurate when it comes to announcements for new orders and show totals. Let's wait and see what Boeing has made of their monthly totals, that should come next week but I'm hoping they do them later today even though that's unlikely.

Alternatively, we could just simply count what each OEM books each month. Then there's no need to get excited about PR fluff.

chiad wrote:

Momo1435 wrote:

mjoelnir wrote:

There is a difference between firm orders and the MOIs, LOIs and options everybody gets so exited about at the airshows. I think not everything is confirmed from last years show in Paris yet.

That's not the issue.

Let's quote the press release Airbus put out at the end of the show.

"During the show the company won further new business for 431 aircraft (93 firm orders and 338 MoUs)


https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... rough.html

I can see that a couple of the firm orders announced were already booked earlier this year = Maquarie & Goshawk, but those 2 only totaled 40.....
93 - 40 = 8 ???

Remember the years when Airbus / Boeing revealed even more firm orders then were actually announced at "the airshow" the previous month / week before the new order update.

I really agree with you Momo1435. IMO the announcement for "firm orders" has been watered out so much that it almost means nothing anymore. Though I suspect the announcement for firm orders will come into the orderbooks at some time, you can be sure it will be re-announced by then.

From where I sit the announcement for 5 748F's was simply a rehash of some of the twenty 748F's ordered 3 years ago at an airshow.

scbriml wrote:

Momo1435 wrote:

We will see later this year how much will actually be firmed up. But it would be good if Airbus would be a bit more accurate when it comes to announcements for new orders and show totals. Let's wait and see what Boeing has made of their monthly totals, that should come next week but I'm hoping they do them later today even though that's unlikely.

Alternatively, we could just simply count what each OEM books each month. Then there's no need to get excited about PR fluff.

That's indeed what we should do.

But still, if we can't trust official press releases anymore. It's not just us that are watching, the stock markets want real info. And it's not that hard to put the actual status somewhere in the press release, just like Airbus always did in the past.

travelhound wrote:

From where I sit the announcement for 5 748F's was simply a rehash of some of the twenty 748F's ordered 3 years ago at an airshow.

The twice announced 20 frame commitment for 748Fs was never more than a MoU, and it was acknowledged when those commitments were announced that they would be firmed over the next 6 to 7 years. So, from that perspective, this is a new firm order, as it should actually go into the books now.

I'm of a mind that the A220's should not be used when comparing numbers between Boeing and Airbus. At present we are roughly comparing like with like both manufacturers make similar aircraft but the A220 will skew these figures and make a nonsense of the comparison as Boeing does not make such an aircraft.

Anyone else agree?