NYCVIE
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NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:24 pm

Hey all,

First time creating one of these, but I haven't seen one of these threads for the NYC area and thought it was deserving so I decided to make one so we can talk about what's going on in the Big Apple's airports.

Some interesting developments in the area:

-LGA Renovations
-DY expanded flights out of SWF (and EWR/JFK)
-AA dwindling presence in JFK

What do you guys think the future holds for the NYC area?
 
BENAir01
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:45 pm

More flights but less hub action, exactly where NYC is going.
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khpn
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:16 pm

Here's to hoping AA starts HPN-DFW weekend service sometime this year!

A long shot I know, but stranger things have happened! :duck:
 
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bluefltspecial
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:51 am

NYCVIE wrote:
Hey all,

First time creating one of these, but I haven't seen one of these threads for the NYC area and thought it was deserving so I decided to make one so we can talk about what's going on in the Big Apple's airports.

Some interesting developments in the area:

-LGA Renovations
-DY expanded flights out of SWF (and EWR/JFK)
-AA dwindling presence in JFK

What do you guys think the future holds for the NYC area?


I'm hopeful to see JFK get started on construction, as well as see the TWA hotel completed. More importantly, I'm curious if AA Term 8 phase two will ever be built. Would be nice to see BA move over and then they can rebuild Term 7?

DY certainly found some love in SWF and looks like they have a lot of plans for that airport.

I'm curious to see if DL will continue to upgauge some of the regional flights to larger aircraft, I'm also curious to see the expansion of Term 4 A

I was at JFK yesterday waiting for the airtrain, and I noticed that JFK has about 80 airlines but the only regional aircraft flying there these days is a handful for AA and DL, would be nice to see a little more variety on the regional front again.
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gokmengs
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:02 am

bluefltspecial wrote:
NYCVIE wrote:
Hey all,

First time creating one of these, but I haven't seen one of these threads for the NYC area and thought it was deserving so I decided to make one so we can talk about what's going on in the Big Apple's airports.

Some interesting developments in the area:

-LGA Renovations
-DY expanded flights out of SWF (and EWR/JFK)
-AA dwindling presence in JFK

What do you guys think the future holds for the NYC area?


I'm hopeful to see JFK get started on construction, as well as see the TWA hotel completed. More importantly, I'm curious if AA Term 8 phase two will ever be built. Would be nice to see BA move over and then they can rebuild Term 7?

DY certainly found some love in SWF and looks like they have a lot of plans for that airport.

I'm curious to see if DL will continue to upgauge some of the regional flights to larger aircraft, I'm also curious to see the expansion of Term 4 A

I was at JFK yesterday waiting for the airtrain, and I noticed that JFK has about 80 airlines but the only regional aircraft flying there these days is a handful for AA and DL, would be nice to see a little more variety on the regional front again.

I like variety just like any other aviation enthusiast but seeing small regional aircraft hold up 20+ long queue of long haul heavies kind of make me think large congested airports such as JFK could use bigger equipment and less regionals.
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RichardWelling
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:24 am

Really excited about the new cargo facility which will replace Buildings 261 and 260. The last time JFK has a seen a brand spanking new building would be when Building 23 and 21 were built.

I know the master plan is to have all the facilties consolidated in Cargo Area D. What will happen to cargo areas A-C?
 
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tlecam
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:37 am

I’m also interested in the T4A plans, and for some insight into the future for T2 and T1.
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:52 am

NYCVIE wrote:
What do you guys think the future holds for the NYC area?


I think the big wildcard here is if whether or not the perimeter rules at LGA continue to exist after its reconstruction. Any relaxation could have major effects on how airlines use their NYC-area airport slot portfolios (or in EWR's case, gate access).

bluefltspecial wrote:
I'm hopeful to see JFK get started on construction, as well as see the TWA hotel completed. More importantly, I'm curious if AA Term 8 phase two will ever be built. Would be nice to see BA move over and then they can rebuild Term 7?

DY certainly found some love in SWF and looks like they have a lot of plans for that airport.

I'm curious to see if DL will continue to upgauge some of the regional flights to larger aircraft, I'm also curious to see the expansion of Term 4 A


Regarding T7, keep in mind that B6 has asked for proposals to build a new T6 and, potentially, integrate T7 in such proposals. I think we'll hear more about this over the next few months.

Regarding T4A, I think it's in dire need. I flew DL to LHR the other day, and even though that terminal is massive, it is still very busy and at times feels like a madhouse (particularly when several A380's are boarding at the same time). It would also be nice to see the T4 immigration hall and arrivals area expanded a bit more.
 
NYCVIE
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:28 pm

bluefltspecial wrote:
NYCVIE wrote:
Hey all,

First time creating one of these, but I haven't seen one of these threads for the NYC area and thought it was deserving so I decided to make one so we can talk about what's going on in the Big Apple's airports.

Some interesting developments in the area:

-LGA Renovations
-DY expanded flights out of SWF (and EWR/JFK)
-AA dwindling presence in JFK

What do you guys think the future holds for the NYC area?


I'm hopeful to see JFK get started on construction, as well as see the TWA hotel completed. More importantly, I'm curious if AA Term 8 phase two will ever be built. Would be nice to see BA move over and then they can rebuild Term 7?

DY certainly found some love in SWF and looks like they have a lot of plans for that airport.

I'm curious to see if DL will continue to upgauge some of the regional flights to larger aircraft, I'm also curious to see the expansion of Term 4 A

I was at JFK yesterday waiting for the airtrain, and I noticed that JFK has about 80 airlines but the only regional aircraft flying there these days is a handful for AA and DL, would be nice to see a little more variety on the regional front again.


I would imagine LGA's existence makes an increase in regional flying unlikely/not very profitable.

I'm also really curious to see what BA will do with T7.
 
airportlover
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:47 pm

Just a note: I hope UA adds EWR-NCE or LOT adds EWR-KRK. I know they are both stretches but not by too much.
 
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varsity
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:03 pm

tlecam wrote:
I’m also interested in the T4A plans, and for some insight into the future for T2 and T1.


Same here. I would think DL would like to either get all its service under one roof or at least make it possible to transit between terminals on the sterile side of security.

I understand T1 is pretty cramped for its tenants, and it might be nice to see more *A carriers under one roof. Maybe an additional pier on the Worldport footprint for T4 for DL and then an expanded head house and additional pier for T1 on the T2 footprint for the *A carriers.
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:07 pm

jetbluefan1 wrote:

Regarding T7, keep in mind that B6 has asked for proposals to build a new T6 and, potentially, integrate T7 in such proposals. I think we'll hear more about this over the next few months.


If AA really is downgrading its presence maybe there will be room for BA at T8 at some point.

Do you know if B6 still has to pay rent on the T6 footprint to keep it in reserve for a future project? I have no idea how any of that works, especially once you get away from an active terminal. At least at EWR, planes (especially UA's planes) seem to be all over the place and I am curious who gets "reserved parking" and how.
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:29 pm

On the LGA front, DL is consolidating to the C&D of the new terminal, and B6 says they are moving back to the CTB when construction is complete. Wonder what will happen at the MAT? If someone was going to stay there, I'd selfishly like it to be them.
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:37 pm

varsity wrote:
On the LGA front, DL is consolidating to the C&D of the new terminal, and B6 says they are moving back to the CTB when construction is complete. Wonder what will happen at the MAT? If someone was going to stay there, I'd selfishly like it to be them.


I thought JetBlue was going to the MAT, but I guess I'm wrong.
 
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:19 pm

airportlover wrote:
varsity wrote:
On the LGA front, DL is consolidating to the C&D of the new terminal, and B6 says they are moving back to the CTB when construction is complete. Wonder what will happen at the MAT? If someone was going to stay there, I'd selfishly like it to be them.


I thought JetBlue was going to the MAT, but I guess I'm wrong.


No you are correct; in fact, they are there now. But the press release said they'll be moving back when the construction is done at the CTB.
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:31 pm

varsity wrote:
airportlover wrote:
varsity wrote:
On the LGA front, DL is consolidating to the C&D of the new terminal, and B6 says they are moving back to the CTB when construction is complete. Wonder what will happen at the MAT? If someone was going to stay there, I'd selfishly like it to be them.


I thought JetBlue was going to the MAT, but I guess I'm wrong.


No you are correct; in fact, they are there now. But the press release said they'll be moving back when the construction is done at the CTB.


Oh, I did not even realize they were there yet!!! I have not had a chance to read the press release yet, so that's why I didn't know. Does anyone know how many, if any, gates LGA is gaining (or even losing)? Also, will more gates become compatible with larger aircraft (or is this deemed unnecessary by the nature of LGA's operations)?
 
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:15 am

varsity wrote:
jetbluefan1 wrote:

Regarding T7, keep in mind that B6 has asked for proposals to build a new T6 and, potentially, integrate T7 in such proposals. I think we'll hear more about this over the next few months.


If AA really is downgrading its presence maybe there will be room for BA at T8 at some point.

Do you know if B6 still has to pay rent on the T6 footprint to keep it in reserve for a future project? I have no idea how any of that works, especially once you get away from an active terminal.


We wont know until 2022 once BA’s lease is up with the Port Authority. BA also has an option for an additional 3 years, needless to say. Terminal 7 and BA is not going anywhere anytime soon.

I too would like to see Terminal 8 completed and see the BA wing of Terminal 8.
 
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:36 am

airportlover wrote:
Just a note: I hope UA adds EWR-NCE or LOT adds EWR-KRK. I know they are both stretches but not by too much.


I could see LOT adding KRK-EWR maybe 2x weekly in the near future. They are resuming RZE-EWR 1x weekly. I always wondered why LOT ever decided to suspend EWR in the first place after 20+ years of service to only come back a few years later.
 
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:15 pm

airportlover wrote:
varsity wrote:
airportlover wrote:

I thought JetBlue was going to the MAT, but I guess I'm wrong.


No you are correct; in fact, they are there now. But the press release said they'll be moving back when the construction is done at the CTB.


Oh, I did not even realize they were there yet!!! I have not had a chance to read the press release yet, so that's why I didn't know. Does anyone know how many, if any, gates LGA is gaining (or even losing)? Also, will more gates become compatible with larger aircraft (or is this deemed unnecessary by the nature of LGA's operations)?


Yes there was a great shuffle on around 12/11. American moved the former US ops from C to the CTB. Delta moved out of the MAT so they are only in C/D now, and JetBlue and Alaska moved to the MAT. Frontier and Spirit gate at C but their counters are in D. The latter four are all temporary until the new CTB is done.

I think the new design is such that the airsides can be surrounded by planes, even taxi under the walkways to the head house. Supposed to reduce hold times. I don't remember if there will be a net gain or loss of gates.
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:48 pm

Any work on the new EWR Terminal A expected this year?
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stlgph
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:05 pm

* The new Central Terminal at LGA is supposed to come in with the same gates as the current structure.

* LOT consolidated EWR/JFK in 2012 to help better organize their financial difficulties at the time. Now, with them seeming to be on the up and up, it's great to see them back at Newark, and great to see them thinking outside the box with JFK/ORD-BUD. Perhaps KRK-NYC may come back, I would suspect JFK may come in first, that seems to be their stronger airport of the two, and Terminal 7 may present better gate arrival/departure opportunities than EWR. We shall see.

* Very surprised JFK has gone this long with a big huge space where T3 used to be. Yes, these things cost money and the PA has a lot of other things on the table right now, but I suspect we may have to wait 10 years before we'll have construction crews on site making major changes between 1 & 4.
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:09 pm

commavia wrote:
varsity wrote:
If AA really is downgrading its presence maybe there will be room for BA at T8 at some point.


I wouldn't hold my breath. I don't see AA downgrading its JFK presence much - especially in terms of departures. Said differently - I don't see AA giving up any slot pairs, and more to the point, I don't see AA being interested in giving up slot pairs at peak times, which also just so happens to be precisely when BA need gates. The vast majority of BA's operations out of JFK occur during the late afternoon and evening through ~2300. During that time, AA's T8 is quite busy with not only dozens of AA departures to Europe, South America and around the U.S., but also multiple daily departures from Cathay Pacific, Finnair, LATAM, Qatar and Royal Jordanian. Barring something really dramatic changing - which I just don't see happening - there is no way that BA's near-entirely-afternoon/evening JFK operation could fit into T8 with completing the terminal buildout.


Add to that, getting through security around 4-5-6-7-8 at night can be a mess as it is already. Let's just toss in say 6 or 7 747s while we're at it. There'd *have* to be a build out first.
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:10 pm

varsity wrote:
If AA really is downgrading its presence maybe there will be room for BA at T8 at some point.


I wouldn't hold my breath. I don't see AA downgrading its JFK presence much - especially in terms of departures. Said differently - I don't see AA giving up any slot pairs, and more to the point, I don't see AA being interested in giving up slot pairs at peak times, which also just so happens to be precisely when BA need gates. The vast majority of BA's operations out of JFK occur during the late afternoon and evening through ~2300. During that time, AA's T8 is quite busy with not only dozens of AA departures to Europe, South America and around the U.S., but also multiple daily departures from Cathay Pacific, Finnair, LATAM, Qatar and Royal Jordanian. Barring something really dramatic changing - which I just don't see happening - there is no way that BA's near-entirely-afternoon/evening JFK operation could fit into T8 with completing the terminal buildout.
 
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varsity
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:41 pm

Don't forget the new EWR Terminal A, which can't happen fast enough IMHO. I read somewhere here that DL domestic flights, such as they are, will be joining AA, AC, B6 & WN.
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:44 pm

stlgph wrote:
Very surprised JFK has gone this long with a big huge space where T3 used to be. Yes, these things cost money and the PA has a lot of other things on the table right now, but I suspect we may have to wait 10 years before we'll have construction crews on site making major changes between 1 & 4.


Pursuant to my question before about B6 and the T6 footprint, does DL have a claim to that land? I thought I read during the demolition hoopla that "DL wanted it for (airplane) parking"
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:55 pm

varsity wrote:
Don't forget the new EWR Terminal A, which can't happen fast enough IMHO. I read somewhere here that DL domestic flights, such as they are, will be joining AA, AC, B6 & WN.


Is the plan to move Delta out and use their current space for increased international arrival capacity?
Or is that wrong?
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:56 pm

commavia wrote:
varsity wrote:
If AA really is downgrading its presence maybe there will be room for BA at T8 at some point.


I wouldn't hold my breath. I don't see AA downgrading its JFK presence much - especially in terms of departures. Said differently - I don't see AA giving up any slot pairs, and more to the point, I don't see AA being interested in giving up slot pairs at peak times, which also just so happens to be precisely when BA need gates. The vast majority of BA's operations out of JFK occur during the late afternoon and evening through ~2300. During that time, AA's T8 is quite busy with not only dozens of AA departures to Europe, South America and around the U.S., but also multiple daily departures from Cathay Pacific, Finnair, LATAM, Qatar and Royal Jordanian. Barring something really dramatic changing - which I just don't see happening - there is no way that BA's near-entirely-afternoon/evening JFK operation could fit into T8 with completing the terminal buildout.

They have 36 gates in t8. Concourse c is really large. I never got the sense flying out of t8 that they couldn't fit in more flights.

Aa seems to have far less tolerance at JFK for money loosing routes than delta, so I would not be surprised if we see further cuts. Maybe this will lead to more hub flying out of JFK to compensate.
 
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:58 pm

The point is British Airways staying in T7 - they get to operate a schedule on their terms without having to worry about accommodations of someone else.
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varsity
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:16 pm

stlgph wrote:
varsity wrote:
Don't forget the new EWR Terminal A, which can't happen fast enough IMHO. I read somewhere here that DL domestic flights, such as they are, will be joining AA, AC, B6 & WN.


Is the plan to move Delta out and use their current space for increased international arrival capacity?
Or is that wrong?


I believe so, although I do not think the pier they are on (B1) has a walkway to customs/FIS so there would have to be some modifications, perhaps a duplicate of the existing build between B2 and B3. When DL0021 comes in from CDG today, for example, it's berthing at B51 on the B2 concourse.
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:28 pm

tphuang wrote:
They have 36 gates in t8. Concourse c is really large. I never got the sense flying out of t8 that they couldn't fit in more flights.


I'm not saying that AA couldn't fit any more flights into T8, but T8 cannot fit another nine departures between 1830 and 2300 (not even counting Iberia, QANTAS and soon Level, which would presumably also move with BA). T8 is actually quite busy during those peak hours. And one other note on T8's gates: remember, 8 of T8's jetbridges are sized for regional jets, and thus are pretty much irrelevant to any discussion of the oneworld airlines in T7 that are obviously all mainline (and virtually all widebody).

tphuang wrote:
Aa seems to have far less tolerance at JFK for money loosing routes than delta, so I would not be surprised if we see further cuts. Maybe this will lead to more hub flying out of JFK to compensate.


Maybe. As said, I personally don't expect AA to be reducing its frequencies out of JFK much more, if at all, at this point - and especially not at the peak times in question here.

stlgph wrote:
The point is British Airways staying in T7 - they get to operate a schedule on their terms without having to worry about accommodations of someone else.


That flexibility and control is, indeed, quite attractive for an operator as large as BA is at JFK. That said, there's really no reason that level of flexibility and control wouldn't be possible at T8 if the terminal was fully built out. And, indeed, that is still - personally - what I expect to ultimately happen. Building out the north end of the concourse and essentially giving it over to BA - including multiple BA lounges - and then slotting in Iberia, QANTAS and Level around the other T8 gates - seems doable. And it would definitely provide a more consistent, and convenient, experience - both O&D and connecting - for oneworld at JFK.
 
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:32 pm

varsity wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Very surprised JFK has gone this long with a big huge space where T3 used to be. Yes, these things cost money and the PA has a lot of other things on the table right now, but I suspect we may have to wait 10 years before we'll have construction crews on site making major changes between 1 & 4.


Pursuant to my question before about B6 and the T6 footprint, does DL have a claim to that land? I thought I read during the demolition hoopla that "DL wanted it for (airplane) parking"


No idea if DL has claim to the T3 land, but they definitely use it for (a lot of) parking every time I am at JFK.
 
VC10er
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:56 am

What is going on at EWR Terminal A? I rarely ever go there, but I did earlier this year for a United flight and they have a new United Club there (which surprised me)...I saw that the circular terminal had gotten a lot of lipstick since I was there many years ago, but still had that old EWR satellite feeling. Is a MAJOR plan being executed for TA? (If so, I missed that!?!)
Also, will United keep some flights there or try and move them all to TC?
Last edited by VC10er on Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
VC10er
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:11 pm

Different question: with United’s massive EWR campaign plastered all over NYC going on for almost a year now, has there been any news, articles or chat about how effective that campaign has been? Did passenger traffic from NYC go up?
Some of the ads are quite clever imho (ex: “NEW YORKEWR”) , and the expensive digital taxi tops displaying satellite real-time travel to EWR vs JFK is really interesting. I’ve seen taxis way uptown showing much shorter driving times to EWR than JFK at that moment...I believe I was on 90th and CPW. Downtown by my apartment I’ve seen taxis showing drive time less than half to EWR. (Indeed I’m in the West Village)
Since I come out of the ad world, I know for sure United would be collecting data on the effectiveness of that campaign- UA (or PANY/NJ) probably would not make those results public unless they proved to be very successful.
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Kieranclarkz
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:34 pm

Any plans to build direct train link from JFK to Manhattan?
Could reduce congestion getting into the city.
 
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:03 pm

Kieranclarkz wrote:
Any plans to build direct train link from JFK to Manhattan?
Could reduce congestion getting into the city.

You can get to JFK via the LIRR to Jamaica Station and transferring onto the AirTrain.
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tphuang
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:46 pm

VC10er wrote:
Different question: with United’s massive EWR campaign plastered all over NYC going on for almost a year now, has there been any news, articles or chat about how effective that campaign has been? Did passenger traffic from NYC go up?
Some of the ads are quite clever imho (ex: “NEW YORKEWR”) , and the expensive digital taxi tops displaying satellite real-time travel to EWR vs JFK is really interesting. I’ve seen taxis way uptown showing much shorter driving times to EWR than JFK at that moment...I believe I was on 90th and CPW. Downtown by my apartment I’ve seen taxis showing drive time less than half to EWR. (Indeed I’m in the West Village)
Since I come out of the ad world, I know for sure United would be collecting data on the effectiveness of that campaign- UA (or PANY/NJ) probably would not make those results public unless they proved to be very successful.


I think EWR has always been an option for people in Manhattan. I'm not sure they really needed a campaign to get the word out. The real reason they are loosing market share is because UA has bad reputation out here. And prices are often lower at JFK because of more competition out there.

Now, if the new terminal A provides more gate space to other carriers and bring more competition, you may see more people going there.

Are all the gates in the new terminal A suppose to be CUTE?
 
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:02 pm

tphuang wrote:
VC10er wrote:
Different question: with United’s massive EWR campaign plastered all over NYC going on for almost a year now, has there been any news, articles or chat about how effective that campaign has been? Did passenger traffic from NYC go up?
Some of the ads are quite clever imho (ex: “NEW YORKEWR”) , and the expensive digital taxi tops displaying satellite real-time travel to EWR vs JFK is really interesting. I’ve seen taxis way uptown showing much shorter driving times to EWR than JFK at that moment...I believe I was on 90th and CPW. Downtown by my apartment I’ve seen taxis showing drive time less than half to EWR. (Indeed I’m in the West Village)
Since I come out of the ad world, I know for sure United would be collecting data on the effectiveness of that campaign- UA (or PANY/NJ) probably would not make those results public unless they proved to be very successful.


I think EWR has always been an option for people in Manhattan. I'm not sure they really needed a campaign to get the word out. The real reason they are loosing market share is because UA has bad reputation out here. And prices are often lower at JFK because of more competition out there.

Now, if the new terminal A provides more gate space to other carriers and bring more competition, you may see more people going there.

Are all the gates in the new terminal A suppose to be CUTE?


I think you might be one of the few to consider EWR a NYC airport on A.net. Most (not all) think that New Yorkers get the hives just thinking about going to such an un-chic airport! Im born and raised here and I never thought of EWR as some far off airport for NJ only- but as a good alternative. I think United’s reputation could be on the mend, (although I’ve read no recent local reviews) it will take a few more years for those minds to change. Many more years to forget the merger. United is indeed much better than it used to be. TC is much better than olden days. Polaris and new aircraft may help a lot with NYC business travelers when there are more than just the 2 aircraft with full Polaris.

But, is TA getting torn down and rebuilt or something? I guess I could google it or check out the PA website.
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:57 pm

JFK/EWR are options for everyone throughout the entire NYC metro area, thanks to the OTAs and SEs which show you a plethora of options, often from both airports, and even though a "schlep" might be involved, sometimes you think - why the hell not, especially if savings add up to a few hundred bucks.
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VC10er
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:03 pm

stlgph wrote:
JFK/EWR are options for everyone throughout the entire NYC metro area, thanks to the OTAs and SEs which show you a plethora of options, often from both airports, and even though a "schlep" might be involved, sometimes you think - why the hell not, especially if savings add up to a few hundred bucks.


Agreed! I think the whole point of United’s huge ad spend was to dispel the notion that crossing state lines didn’t actually equate to a “schlep” - and indeed shorter time by car/taxi. Secondarily, by using EWR in the ads in fun ways, it helped remove the “Newark” stigma - which is just so unfair, but sadly true. Although I assume the other Newark venues (like the Prudential Stadium/Center) are successful.

No it will probably never have the cachet of JFK, but it can be very convenient and UA truly serves great destinations from EWR.

Slightly off topic: United has admitted that moving ps to EWR only was a mistake- if they could only ever get back to JFK one day, even split ps up a bit, increasing frequency and up the game, I think it would be cool. I believe they lost a lot of celebrities which once upon a time was the best way to potentially see your heroes!
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:18 pm

commavia wrote:
tphuang wrote:
They have 36 gates in t8. Concourse c is really large. I never got the sense flying out of t8 that they couldn't fit in more flights.


I'm not saying that AA couldn't fit any more flights into T8, but T8 cannot fit another nine departures between 1830 and 2300 (not even counting Iberia, QANTAS and soon Level, which would presumably also move with BA). T8 is actually quite busy during those peak hours. And one other note on T8's gates: remember, 8 of T8's jetbridges are sized for regional jets, and thus are pretty much irrelevant to any discussion of the oneworld airlines in T7 that are obviously all mainline (and virtually all widebody).

tphuang wrote:
Aa seems to have far less tolerance at JFK for money loosing routes than delta, so I would not be surprised if we see further cuts. Maybe this will lead to more hub flying out of JFK to compensate.


Maybe. As said, I personally don't expect AA to be reducing its frequencies out of JFK much more, if at all, at this point - and especially not at the peak times in question here.

stlgph wrote:
The point is British Airways staying in T7 - they get to operate a schedule on their terms without having to worry about accommodations of someone else.


That flexibility and control is, indeed, quite attractive for an operator as large as BA is at JFK. That said, there's really no reason that level of flexibility and control wouldn't be possible at T8 if the terminal was fully built out. And, indeed, that is still - personally - what I expect to ultimately happen. Building out the north end of the concourse and essentially giving it over to BA - including multiple BA lounges - and then slotting in Iberia, QANTAS and Level around the other T8 gates - seems doable. And it would definitely provide a more consistent, and convenient, experience - both O&D and connecting - for oneworld at JFK.


I just hope BA doesnt take the option for the additional 3 years to their renewed lease.

Furthermore, if the BA wing of T8 was built out. Who would pay for it? Would it be AA or BA?
 
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varsity
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:03 pm

Yes Terminal A is going to be replaced. 33 (expandable to 45) gates, common-use (CUTE gates but counter space as well). The new footprint is basically along the airport's southwestern flank where UPS and the post office are now, and will apparently utilize the existing airtrain station for the south long term lot. It looks vaguely like JFK T5.

https://www.panynj.gov/airports/ewr-redevelopment/

This PDF has quite a bit of detail and drawings: https://www.panynj.gov/airports/pdf/Pro ... g_Book.pdf

If the cover photo in this article is to be believed, the head house of the existing A will be retained (for what purpose, I don't know).

And in answer to the EWR-as-real-NY-airport question, everybody I know who lives in Manhattan goes to EWR.
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:16 pm

varsity wrote:

Do you know if B6 still has to pay rent on the T6 footprint to keep it in reserve for a future project? I have no idea how any of that works, especially once you get away from an active terminal. At least at EWR, planes (especially UA's planes) seem to be all over the place and I am curious who gets "reserved parking" and how.


Im sure B6 is paying rent on the space, there is no way in NYC the PA would allow valuable land like that to go rent free for any amount of time. Im more interested in why B6 has released the RFP for Terminal 7. Does B6 own the rights for T7 once BA’s lease is up? Or is it purely speculative?

Kieranclarkz wrote:
Any plans to build direct train link from JFK to Manhattan?
Could reduce congestion getting into the city.


Cuomo’s master plan for JFK released a few months back contains a study on the feasibility of a one seat ride to Manhattan and Brooklyn (they specifically mention Penn, Grand Central, and Atlantic Terminal) but there are no plans as of now. His master plan does call for the much needed added capacity on the Air Train to Jamaica and Howard beach going from 2 cars per set to 4, which the stations are already built to accomodate. That is an easy temporary fix.
 
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:00 pm

varsity wrote:
Yes Terminal A is going to be replaced. 33 (expandable to 45) gates, common-use (CUTE gates but counter space as well). The new footprint is basically along the airport's southwestern flank where UPS and the post office are now, and will apparently utilize the existing airtrain station for the south long term lot. It looks vaguely like JFK T5.

https://www.panynj.gov/airports/ewr-redevelopment/

This PDF has quite a bit of detail and drawings: https://www.panynj.gov/airports/pdf/Pro ... g_Book.pdf

If the cover photo in this article is to be believed, the head house of the existing A will be retained (for what purpose, I don't know).

And in answer to the EWR-as-real-NY-airport question, everybody I know who lives in Manhattan goes to EWR.


WOW! THANKS! Great to see. I must have been under some rock not to have seen this or heard about it before.

It sure is needed.

So, what does this new mega Terminal A spell for UA’s fortress there?

Also, I did read through the pdf “presentation deck” and there doesn’t seem to address the increase in traffic to/from NYC and elsewhere or mass transit solutions to handle so many millions of passengers?

Did I miss something?

Thanks again R
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:53 pm

N62NA wrote:
Any work on the new EWR Terminal A expected this year?


At the last PA board meeting in December the board approved the next round of work which when combined with previous expenditures brings the total cost of work thus far to over $700 million. Most interesting in the latest contacts being awarded is $75 Million to build footings for a new Airtrain.

http://corpinfo.panynj.gov/documents/Newark-Liberty-Intl-Airport-Terminal-A-Redevelopment/

Other EWR related news from the December 7th board meeting:

Planning for a new consolidated rental car facility:

http://corpinfo.panynj.gov/documents/Board-Minutes/
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:08 pm

VC10er wrote:
Also, I did read through the pdf “presentation deck” and there doesn’t seem to address the increase in traffic to/from NYC and elsewhere or mass transit solutions to handle so many millions of passengers?

Did I miss something?


There are plans to extend the PATH train from Newark Penn to the airport, which would have a lot more capacity than the current AirTrain. We shall see if that actually comes to pass. On the other hand, since the new Terminal A will replace the old one, it's not a huge net addition of gates.
 
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:13 pm

Only problem is that transit vehicles (whether bus or rail) don't offer space for luggage (outside of putting your backpack on the seat next to you). At least on the NJT commuter cars have some space.
 
VC10er
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:30 pm

Path direct to EWR would be a HUGE money saver for me. I live one small block from a PATH station and would easy, peasy. I always take a company car service and that is always expensive, though 9 out of 10 times, it's extremely fast. A early morning weekend flight is about 25 minutes to Terminal C. Unless there is really bad traffic at the tunnel, it is still often under an hour since they finished the road work in NJ.
So, I wonder how long that future PATH train would take? I'm a typical "gotta get there fast" New Yorker.
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stlgph
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:38 pm

PATH to EWR completion date is 2026.

Agreed with the above poster - while there are options in place for public rails to/from airports, the biggest problem is luggage. They're not airport traveler friendly.
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T5towbar
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:50 pm

[quote="varsity"]Yes Terminal A is going to be replaced. 33 (expandable to 45) gates, common-use (CUTE gates but counter space as well). The new footprint is basically along the airport's southwestern flank where UPS and the post office are now, and will apparently utilize the existing airtrain station for the south long term lot. It looks vaguely like JFK T5.




Any word on when UPS is supposed to move? UA (and others) use that area, along with UPS to park aircraft. I heard rumors is that the new UPS building will be in the North Area (where the former UA Cargo facility was located).

I also thought that all of the domestic carriers (and AC) will use the new Terminal A. As well as UA, since Terminal C cannot contain the whole UA operation. And B will be completely all international arrivals, since B1 can be modified to accept international arrivals and departures. That would make sense. More than likely there might be a couple of CUTE gates for WestJet and Spirit, etc.
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WNflyer1523
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Re: NYC Area Aviation Thread (JFK/LGA/EWR/ISP/SWF/HPN) - 2018

Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:07 pm

Still waiting on ISP-CLT. Huge market that AA and /or F9 are missing out on.

I’ve also noticed that AA has been somewhat downsizing at JFK. Are pax loads low (pretty sure that this wouldn’t be the case with tens of millions of people within an hour of the airport) or are their planes better needed somewhere else?

Lastly, Southwest is definitely committed to LGA, all they’ve been doing is adding flights/frequencies left and right. They’ve also added a few more frequencies at ISP, likely to try and compete with Frontier. Can anyone see Southwest initiating Saturday flights to the Caribbean from LGA if they get their hands on even more slots?

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