STL air service discussion - 2018

stl07 · Wed May 02, 2018 10:18 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
gerstetm wrote:
Nice! I agree with you, why not add one more flight on Saturday! Haha. Hoping while they had their tour of St. Louis this past week they decide to step it up to the next level.

I think they are coming May 22. At least that is what I read in the airport board release. Which is probably good because of what happened at BPV this past weekend. Wouldn't have been ideal time for them to be here.

My biggest problem with the whole bpv thing was that it made national headlines before the facts were made known so the nation saw that it was innocent bystanders shot, but then only the local news reported that is was part of a fight, and all the trolls started coming out saying they would never visit the "liberal shantytown of St. Louis anymore"

Jshank83 · Wed May 02, 2018 10:37 pm

stl07 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
gerstetm wrote:
Nice! I agree with you, why not add one more flight on Saturday! Haha. Hoping while they had their tour of St. Louis this past week they decide to step it up to the next level.

I think they are coming May 22. At least that is what I read in the airport board release. Which is probably good because of what happened at BPV this past weekend. Wouldn't have been ideal time for them to be here.

My biggest problem with the whole bpv thing was that it made national headlines before the facts were made known so the nation saw that it was innocent bystanders shot, but then only the local news reported that is was part of a fight, and all the trolls started coming out saying they would never visit the "liberal shantytown of St. Louis anymore"

Those people weren't going to visit anyways or just are online to troll. No one pays attention except other trolls.

This is all I needed to read to not be all that concerned about it. The people they talked to hit the demos that I was most concerned would shy away (older, people in suburbs/out of towners). They still are there 2 days later. Just to watch the game at BPV, without tickets no less. I was down there last night and it was pretty full.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... 77ee1.html

But anyways, I don't want to stray away from aviation on here too much so I'll leave my comments on it at that.

Jshank83 · Wed May 02, 2018 10:57 pm

STL/BLV Frequency Spreadsheet for June

flights per week
Southwest 799
American 271
Delta 195
United 191
Cape Air 119
Air Choice One 62
Allegiant (BLV) 30
Frontier 28
Alaska 20
Air Canada 19
Swift Air 6
WOW 5

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

STLflyer · Fri May 04, 2018 3:37 am

I know someone who swears they are on a "nonstop" flight from St. Louis to Italy (FCO maybe? Not sure where, doesn't matter) later in the year. As we all know, no such thing exists, at least when it comes to regularly scheduled commercial flights. Not worth arguing with them, I don't like them anyways, but just wondering what they could be talking about. Are charters a thing? Like if a travel agency has enough people to fill a plane to Rome, will they actually charter one? I check FlightAware regularly for interesting international arrivals and have never seen a commercial passenger jet arrive from Europe unless it's a rare diversion, it's always just business jets, so that would be a first.

Or I'm guessing it's a direct flight and they are confused. Something like STL-ORD-FCO all on the same flight number, but with a plane change in ORD. I know airlines love to pull crap like that.

Jshank83 · Fri May 04, 2018 5:38 am

STLflyer wrote:
I know someone who swears they are on a "nonstop" flight from St. Louis to Italy (FCO maybe? Not sure where, doesn't matter) later in the year. As we all know, no such thing exists, at least when it comes to regularly scheduled commercial flights. Not worth arguing with them, I don't like them anyways, but just wondering what they could be talking about. Are charters a thing? Like if a travel agency has enough people to fill a plane to Rome, will they actually charter one? I check FlightAware regularly for interesting international arrivals and have never seen a commercial passenger jet arrive from Europe unless it's a rare diversion, it's always just business jets, so that would be a first.

Or I'm guessing it's a direct flight and they are confused. Something like STL-ORD-FCO all on the same flight number, but with a plane change in ORD. I know airlines love to pull crap like that.

I would assume your last comment is what it is. A direct (with a stop). Only charter I know that runs nonstop from STL is the state farm one every year. If they are on that then I guess they could be on a nonstop. I am guessing that isn't it though.

Jshank83 · Fri May 04, 2018 7:08 pm

A few notes from the April commission meeting.

1. There followed a discussion regarding the financial impact of opening the remaining nine (9) gates in the D Concourse. The Chairperson advised that the cost is estimated at over $5 million, plus the additional costs of maintenance on the walkways and cleaning of the concourse, and that at the present time it would not be feasible without a commitment from an airline to utilize those remaining gates.

2. Due to the increase in passenger numbers, Southwest Airlines is exploring the expansion of the baggage claim area in Terminal

3. This three-year Lease covers 5,746 sq. ft. in the Airport Office Building to be used for an additional flight simulator. This leased space is adjacent to space currently leased by Boeing, which also contains a flight simulator. The Lease contains a 60-day no-fault cancellation provision. Revenue to the Airport will $63,493.30 annually, with payments to begin upon the completion of Boeing's renovations to the leased space.

4. Rents for signatory airlines decreased 7.7%. Rental fees are based on the landing fees and as those landing fees are reduced, the rental rates will also decrease. This will potentially attract additional airlines and other entities to the Airport.

stl07 · Fri May 04, 2018 9:01 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
2. Due to the increase in passenger numbers, Southwest Airlines is exploring the expansion of the baggage claim area in Terminal

About time.

Jshank83 · Sun May 06, 2018 5:37 pm

Anyone on here going to be around to see the first WOW flight land? Or happen to be on the first outbound? Hoping to see some pics. I will unfortunately be out of the country so I will miss it and of course I return on one of the days they aren't flying in. Any pics of their desk or gate would be great also. I won't be using T2 until the end of June.

stl07 · Sun May 06, 2018 6:06 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Anyone on here going to be around to see the first WOW flight land? Or happen to be on the first outbound? Hoping to see some pics. I will unfortunately be out of the country so I will miss it and of course I return on one of the days they aren't flying in. Any pics of their desk or gate would be great also. I won't be using T2 until the end of June.

That Max Prosperi guy is going on the first flight so I'm assuming he will have a report on it on his blog. Unfortunately, I won't be able to see it either.

stl07 · Sun May 06, 2018 6:15 pm

http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.s ... s_fir.html

This is the type of thing I like about getting WW instead of FI

"A couple from St. Louis, on their way to Paris, who flew to Cleveland on Southwest to catch the inaugural Wow flight because it was cheaper than flying from Missouri."

"Among the inaugural passengers were Carol Mata and Matt Gordon, who drove to Cleveland from Cincinnati to catch the flight."

And yes, I am excited to finally have an international carrier here because judging from that picture, they actually have nice fa uniforms- for both men and women, unlike our drab American carriers.

Jshank83 · Sun May 06, 2018 6:30 pm

stl07 wrote:
http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.ssf/2018/05/cleveland_hopkins_welcomes_fir.html

This is the type of thing I like about getting WW instead of FI

"A couple from St. Louis, on their way to Paris, who flew to Cleveland on Southwest to catch the inaugural Wow flight because it was cheaper than flying from Missouri."

"Among the inaugural passengers were Carol Mata and Matt Gordon, who drove to Cleveland from Cincinnati to catch the flight."

And yes, I am excited to finally have an international carrier here because judging from that picture, they actually have nice fa uniforms- for both men and women, unlike our drab American carriers.

I think WOW will capture travelers who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford to go to Europe. Personally, I would be more likely to fly FI because I like having in flight entertainment but I think WOW probably is less likely to impact other TATL service than FI, because I think for the most part it is a different customer base. If we got FI instead, I am not sure it would be much cheaper than flying a Legacy one stop, so I would probably just take the Legacy instead. For that reason, it probably was the better one of the two to have come. I am sure I will fly WOW at some point to Iceland or on maybe an extra trip to Europe for cheaper I wouldn't have taken otherwise.

stl07 · Mon May 07, 2018 12:42 am

From Jamaica thread:

XTRA

MBJ-STL
1008-645 64%

STL-MBJ
1008-514 50%

How does this route survive with loads like that?

STLflyer · Mon May 07, 2018 2:13 am

Jshank83 wrote:
Anyone on here going to be around to see the first WOW flight land? Or happen to be on the first outbound? Hoping to see some pics. I will unfortunately be out of the country so I will miss it and of course I return on one of the days they aren't flying in. Any pics of their desk or gate would be great also. I won't be using T2 until the end of June.

I’ll be on the first flight out and will try to get pics.

I wonder what loads will be like on the inbound. Pretty light I’m sure, it seems demand between STL and Europe is mostly one way, doubt there are many Europeans heading to STL for tourism. I’m guessing loads on the first few KEF-STL flights will be light.

stl07 wrote:
From Jamaica thread:

XTRA

MBJ-STL
1008-645 64%

STL-MBJ
1008-514 50%

How does this route survive with loads like that?

I’m more surprised by the 14% difference between MBJ-STL and STL-MBJ. Since it’s operated by a travel agency I’d expect them to be the same, doubt that many people are traveling one way between St. Louis and Jamaica.

stl07 · Mon May 07, 2018 2:58 am

STLflyer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Anyone on here going to be around to see the first WOW flight land? Or happen to be on the first outbound? Hoping to see some pics. I will unfortunately be out of the country so I will miss it and of course I return on one of the days they aren't flying in. Any pics of their desk or gate would be great also. I won't be using T2 until the end of June.

I’ll be on the first flight out and will try to get pics.

I wonder what loads will be like on the inbound. Pretty light I’m sure, it seems demand between STL and Europe is mostly one way, doubt there are many Europeans heading to STL for tourism. I’m guessing loads on the first few KEF-STL flights will be light.

stl07 wrote:
From Jamaica thread:

XTRA

MBJ-STL
1008-645 64%

STL-MBJ
1008-514 50%

How does this route survive with loads like that?

I’m more surprised by the 14% difference between MBJ-STL and STL-MBJ. Since it’s operated by a travel agency I’d expect them to be the same, doubt that many people are traveling one way between St. Louis and Jamaica.

The flight is only a few times a week, so if someone wanted to depart on another day, they would take AA with a layover there and fly direct back or vice versa

stl07 · Mon May 07, 2018 3:05 am

What the heck is this ex-estern livery departing from here

Edit:
Seen in Jamaica, but departs from here too

Jshank83 · Mon May 07, 2018 4:53 am

Jshank83 · Mon May 07, 2018 5:01 am

stl07 wrote:
From Jamaica thread:

XTRA

MBJ-STL
1008-645 64%

STL-MBJ
1008-514 50%

How does this route survive with loads like that?

Thru October they are at 77% average each way for 2017.

Seats Passengers Origin Destination Month
672 630 Xtra Airways STL MBJ 1 0.9375
672 552 Xtra Airways STL MBJ 2 0.8214285714
672 584 Xtra Airways STL MBJ 3 0.869047619
840 569 Xtra Airways STL MBJ 4 0.6773809524
672 520 Xtra Airways STL MBJ 5 0.7738095238
1344 1131 Xtra Airways STL MBJ 6 0.8415178571
1512 1318 Xtra Airways STL MBJ 7 0.8716931217
1008 514 Xtra Airways STL MBJ 8 0.5099206349
840 570 Xtra Airways STL MBJ 9 0.6785714286
840 676 Xtra Airways STL MBJ 10 0.8047619048
Xtra Airways STL MBJ 11
Xtra Airways STL MBJ 12

9072 7064 Total 0.778659612

MBJ-STL

672 561 Xtra Airways MBJ STL 1 0.8348214286
672 596 Xtra Airways MBJ STL 2 0.8869047619
672 549 Xtra Airways MBJ STL 3 0.8169642857
840 594 Xtra Airways MBJ STL 4 0.7071428571
672 494 Xtra Airways MBJ STL 5 0.7351190476
Xtra Airways MBJ STL 6
1512 1280 Xtra Airways MBJ STL 7 0.8465608466
1008 645 Xtra Airways MBJ STL 8 0.6398809524
840 571 Xtra Airways MBJ STL 9 0.6797619048
672 446 Xtra Airways MBJ STL 10 0.6636904762
Xtra Airways MBJ STL 11
Xtra Airways MBJ STL 12

7560 5736 Total 0.7587301587

16632 12800 Total Combined 0.7696007696

Jshank83 · Mon May 07, 2018 10:23 pm

Updated my Load Factor Spread sheets.

2018
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

2017 (International thru October)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Didn't take much time to compare to last January except that WN LF on STL-PDX went from 71% to 88%. AS cut the route for January (it comes back March-May, then is cut for good) and WN obviously benefited.
Most WN routes were up except for some of them with increased capacity.

stlgph · Mon May 07, 2018 10:58 pm

stl07 wrote:
From Jamaica thread:

XTRA

MBJ-STL
1008-645 64%

STL-MBJ
1008-514 50%

How does this route survive with loads like that?

How does it sell? A la carte or is there a kick in from resorts tour operators and vacation packages?

gerstetm · Tue May 08, 2018 3:09 pm

Frontier just announced nonstop to JAX!

Jshank83 · Tue May 08, 2018 5:10 pm

gerstetm wrote:
Frontier just announced nonstop to JAX!

Highest PDEW without service. Good to see! Wonder is Southwest adds it now. It had to be on the shortlist for them. They added RDU quickly at mci after frontier announced that route.

stl07 · Tue May 08, 2018 10:29 pm

stlgph wrote:
stl07 wrote:
From Jamaica thread:

XTRA

MBJ-STL
1008-645 64%

STL-MBJ
1008-514 50%

How does this route survive with loads like that?

How does it sell? A la carte or is there a kick in from resorts tour operators and vacation packages?

When I did a dummy booking, the flight was a lot cheaper with a hotel booking so I'm assuming there is some sort of kick involved.

stl07 · Tue May 08, 2018 11:00 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
gerstetm wrote:
Frontier just announced nonstop to JAX!

Highest PDEW without service. Good to see! Wonder is Southwest adds it now. It had to be on the shortlist for them. They added RDU quickly at mci after frontier announced that route.

funny how they are on the same days as g4 :scratchchin:

Also, is the WN team going to see venture cafe?

Jshank83 · Wed May 09, 2018 3:53 am

stl07 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
gerstetm wrote:
Frontier just announced nonstop to JAX!

Highest PDEW without service. Good to see! Wonder is Southwest adds it now. It had to be on the shortlist for them. They added RDU quickly at mci after frontier announced that route.

funny how they are on the same days as g4

Also, is the WN team going to see venture cafe?

I find it interesting Allegiant seems to have the route stopping for the winter the same day that Frontier starts theirs.

Jshank83 · Wed May 09, 2018 3:35 pm

Apparently Southwest started STL-CHS early (May 7). I didn't do a frequency chart for May because the extension was for April and May then the next one was for June. I figured April and May was the same.

STL-CHS is running mon-thursday and Saturday. No Friday or Sunday until the June extension when it goes daily (and when I initially saw it starting). Not sure when the backfill happened.

I might do a May frequency just for Southwest since I have a little time on my hands today.

Jshank83 · Wed May 09, 2018 3:58 pm

Changes from April to May on WN. (I guess I need to start checking every month)

STL-AUS 3x on Fri/Sun (up from 2x)
STL-CHS Added Mon-Thurs/Sat
STL-DAL 4x on Sat (up from 3x)
STL-FLL 2x all days (was only 2x on Saturday)
STL-RSW 2x Monday-Fri/Sun (was only 1x)

116 Mon-Friday
87 Sat
115 Sunday

stlgph · Wed May 09, 2018 4:00 pm

stl07 wrote:
stlgph wrote:
stl07 wrote:
From Jamaica thread:

XTRA

MBJ-STL
1008-645 64%

STL-MBJ
1008-514 50%

How does this route survive with loads like that?

How does it sell? A la carte or is there a kick in from resorts tour operators and vacation packages?

When I did a dummy booking, the flight was a lot cheaper with a hotel booking so I'm assuming there is some sort of kick involved.

Who is it through? Apple? Funjet? Swift?

Just curious. Thanks.

stl07 · Wed May 09, 2018 9:06 pm

stlgph wrote:
stl07 wrote:
stlgph wrote:

How does it sell? A la carte or is there a kick in from resorts tour operators and vacation packages?

When I did a dummy booking, the flight was a lot cheaper with a hotel booking so I'm assuming there is some sort of kick involved.

Who is it through? Apple? Funjet? Swift?

Just curious. Thanks.

All three actually haha. Apple and Funjet charter the same plane somehow and swift flies it for them

stl07 · Wed May 09, 2018 9:09 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

Highest PDEW without service. Good to see! Wonder is Southwest adds it now. It had to be on the shortlist for them. They added RDU quickly at mci after frontier announced that route.

funny how they are on the same days as g4

Also, is the WN team going to see venture cafe?

I find it interesting Allegiant seems to have the route stopping for the winter the same day that Frontier starts theirs.

That too hmmmm seems odd

TWA302 · Thu May 10, 2018 5:00 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
A few notes from the April commission meeting.
2. Due to the increase in passenger numbers, Southwest Airlines is exploring the expansion of the baggage claim area in Terminal

This is very much needed in T2.

mwmav8r01 · Thu May 10, 2018 10:54 pm

Anyone know what thr construction project is in T2? The E14 concrete is torn up, but it also looks like under the terminal some work is being done.

Jshank83 · Fri May 11, 2018 12:00 am

mwmav8r01 wrote:
Anyone know what thr construction project is in T2? The E14 concrete is torn up, but it also looks like under the terminal some work is being done.

They had been replacing underground fuel pipes in C. Maybe they have moved to E? Although I figured E was newer so they wouldn't need to.

RJNUT · Fri May 11, 2018 12:15 am

STLflyer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Anyone on here going to be around to see the first WOW flight land? Or happen to be on the first outbound? Hoping to see some pics. I will unfortunately be out of the country so I will miss it and of course I return on one of the days they aren't flying in. Any pics of their desk or gate would be great also. I won't be using T2 until the end of June.

I’ll be on the first flight out and will try to get pics.

I wonder what loads will be like on the inbound. Pretty light I’m sure, it seems demand between STL and Europe is mostly one way, doubt there are many Europeans heading to STL for tourism. I’m guessing loads on the first few KEF-STL flights will be light.

Appears CLE had same result --half full on 1st inbound, nearly full on outbound from Cleveland.com
"The inaugural flight to Cleveland from Reykjavik was about half full, according to the airport. Representatives from Destination Cleveland greeted arriving passengers with a goodie bag of items, including sunglasses, bottled water and a map."

Jshank83 · Fri May 11, 2018 1:37 pm

February numbers are in for BLV

41,639 for the year. Still up 108%

It is a little crazy to see how fast Allegiant has grown over there. Already higher numbers than all of 2014. Probably will move ahead of 2015 after March. They might pass 2016 by mid year.

stlgph · Fri May 11, 2018 2:16 pm

If Allegiant keeps growing, I should just cash all this in and open up a hot dog stand or something at the Mid America Airport.

On another note - is there still a car rental counter there or no...

stlgph · Fri May 11, 2018 2:17 pm

RJNUT wrote:
STLflyer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Anyone on here going to be around to see the first WOW flight land? Or happen to be on the first outbound? Hoping to see some pics. I will unfortunately be out of the country so I will miss it and of course I return on one of the days they aren't flying in. Any pics of their desk or gate would be great also. I won't be using T2 until the end of June.

I’ll be on the first flight out and will try to get pics.

I wonder what loads will be like on the inbound. Pretty light I’m sure, it seems demand between STL and Europe is mostly one way, doubt there are many Europeans heading to STL for tourism. I’m guessing loads on the first few KEF-STL flights will be light.

Appears CLE had same result --half full on 1st inbound, nearly full on outbound from Cleveland.com
"The inaugural flight to Cleveland from Reykjavik was about half full, according to the airport. Representatives from Destination Cleveland greeted arriving passengers with a goodie bag of items, including sunglasses, bottled water and a map."

That's cute ... greet them on their arrival with a free bottle water after charging them $5 during the flight

Jshank83 · Fri May 11, 2018 2:18 pm

stlgph wrote:
If Allegiant keeps growing, I should just cash all this in and open up a hot dog stand or something at the Mid America Airport.

On another note - is there still a car rental counter there or no...

I have seen pics of one in the past. I don't know the current status.

EDIT: Enterprise looks like it does.

TWA302 · Fri May 11, 2018 2:36 pm

stlgph wrote:
If Allegiant keeps growing, I should just cash all this in and open up a hot dog stand or something at the Mid America Airport.

That will complement the full-service bloody mary bar well! :checkmark:

Jshank83 · Fri May 11, 2018 3:23 pm

February LFs are out and November Intl loads. I'll fill out my spreadsheet later but since it was the month for CUN on WN I thought I would post its numbers first.

STL-CUN 82.3%
CUN-STL 79.5%

For comparison sake BNA started the same time

BNA-CUN 55%
CUN-BNA 69%

stl07 · Fri May 11, 2018 10:42 pm

Signage is up- STL is ready for Keflavik!!

stl07 · Fri May 11, 2018 10:44 pm

https://www.flystl.com/newsroom/stl-new ... f-the-week

gerstetm · Sat May 12, 2018 2:47 am

Really hoping this service will work well for STL!

TWA302 · Mon May 14, 2018 4:06 pm

stl07 wrote:
Signage is up- STL is ready for Keflavik!!

Looks like E29 for WW. Assuming they won't have any branding here (besides the monitors) since this gate is used for other International arrivals.

Jshank83 · Mon May 14, 2018 5:29 pm

TWA302 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Signage is up- STL is ready for Keflavik!!

Looks like E29 for WW. Assuming they won't have any branding here (besides the monitors) since this gate is used for other International arrivals.

It is their gate. They will have branding. At least that is what was announced a few months ago. They will be the only departure out of it (unless WN uses it once in awhile). Having arrivals at it won't matter for branding purposes. Those people won't come out far enough to see what is on the gate.

Jshank83 · Tue May 15, 2018 1:17 pm

Allegiant extended their schedule into February. FLL and JAX look to be seasonal this year, stopping in August. Luckily Frontiers JAX route starts the same day that Allegiant stops theirs. They are running an extra VPS and SFB this winter though (at least through December).

Jshank83 · Tue May 15, 2018 2:40 pm

WOW is flying to India and St. Louis will be one of the US cities it will be offered from (With a stop in Iceland, obviously). Long flight but $199 each way promotion.

https://www.benzinga.com/pressreleases/ ... ia-iceland

They also extended their schedule looks like it runs 3x over winter to Iceland. It also looks like they are changing the departure time to 4:10 pm which puts in you Iceland at 4:30 am.

Outbound M/W/F
Inbound Sun/Tues/Thurs

They must be overnighting the plane here during winter so they can use the same crew both ways.

STLflyer · Tue May 15, 2018 7:45 pm

Look at what just showed up on FlightAware!

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/WOW167
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/WOW168

TWA302 · Tue May 15, 2018 8:30 pm

STLflyer wrote:
Look at what just showed up on FlightAware!

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/WOW167
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/WOW168

stlgph · Tue May 15, 2018 8:34 pm

Start a pool for actual arrival and departure time (in and off the gate)?

TWA302 · Tue May 15, 2018 8:35 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
WOW is flying to India and St. Louis will be one of the US cities it will be offered from (With a stop in Iceland, obviously). Long flight but $199 each way promotion.

https://www.benzinga.com/pressreleases/ ... ia-iceland

They also extended their schedule looks like it runs 3x over winter to Iceland. It also looks like they are changing the departure time to 4:10 pm which puts in you Iceland at 4:30 am.

Outbound M/W/F
Inbound Sun/Tues/Thurs

They must be overnighting the plane here during winter so they can use the same crew both ways.

Looks like a 7 hr 15 min layover in KEF and then on to DEL. Almost 24 hours total travel.
The return has 3 hr 25 min layover in KEF.

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