Airliners.net

6308 1D002 42989 N739EX 737-9 Thai Lion Air
6308 1D002 42989 N739EX 737-9 Lion Air by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7050 1C331 43830 B-1118 737-8 Xiamen Airlines
7050 1C331 43830 B-1118 737-8 Xiamen Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7060 1B114 44456 N326RP 737-8 American Airlines
7060 1B114 44456 N326RP 737-8 American Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7062 1A611 61631 B-1152 737-8 Shanghai Airlines
7062 1A611 61631 B-1152 737-8 Shanghai Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7068 1C333 43858 B-1139 737-8 Xiamen Airlines
7068 1C333 43858 B-1139 737-8 Xiamen Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7070 1B653 61443 B-1120 737-8 Shandong Airlines - Painted
7070 1B653 61443 B-1120 737-8 Shandong Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7110 1A314 737-8 Norwegian & 7073 1A311 42836 LN-BKC 737-8 Norwegian
A pair of Norwegian MAX's by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7077 1A312 42834 EI-FYI 737-8 Norwegian - Engines Installed
7077 1A312 42834 EI-FYI 737-8 Norwegian by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7083 1A745 62873 B-1165 737-8 China Southern - Engines Installed Now
7123 737-8 Air China
Outside FAL by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7093 1B115 44457 N328RR 737-8 American Airlines
7093 1B115 44457 N328RR 737-8 American Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7095 1C703 60034 TC-LCC 737-8 Turkish Airlines
7095 1C703 60034 TC-LCC 737-8 Turkish Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7096 1D051 44161 737-9 Copa Airlines - Engine Runs
7096 1D051 44161 737-9 Copa Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7105 1A612 737-8 Shanghai Airlines
7105 1A612 737-8 Shanghai Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7115 1A023 42574 N8723Q 737-8 Southwest Airlines
7115 1A023 42574 N8723Q 737-8 Southwest Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7118 1A211 737-8 Lion Air
7118 1A211 737-8 Lion Air by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7128 1C704 60035 TC-LCD 737-8 Turkish Airlines
7128 1C704 60035 TC-LCD 737-8 Turkish Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7145 737-8 Smartwings
7145 737-8 Smartwings by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7148 737-8 Xiamen Airlines
7148 737-8 Xiamen Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

5668 1A002 36989 N8702L 737-8 Southwest Airlines
5668 1A002 36989 N8702L 737-8 Southwest Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

Boeing is using the stalls that the Test Frames did their re-work in as new flight line stalls

7064 1C332 43857 B-1137 737-8 Xiamen Airlines
7064 1C332 43857 B-1137 737-8 Xiamen Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7065 1A743 43951 B-1122 737-8 China Southern
7065 1A743 43951 B-1122 737-8 China Southern by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

Storage Areas for incomplete MAX's -
Compass Rose
7100 1A313 737-8 Norwegian
7108 1B116 44458 N338RS 737-8 American Airlines
7105 1A612 737-8 Shanghai Airlines
7113 1A613 737-8 Shanghai Airlines

Compass Rose by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

Taxiway Bravo
7128 1C704 60035 TC-LCD 737-8 Turkish Airlines
7115 1A023 42574 N8723Q 737-8 Southwest Airlines

Crowded Taxiway Bravo by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

Taxiway Bravo by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

Any idea when the Turkish 737-8MAX will be painted?

SXDFC wrote:

Any idea when the Turkish 737-8MAX will be painted?

I’m sure it’s in paint now at BFI. I’m keeping my eye out for it.

travelhound wrote:

So, at this stage the single max line is producing approximately 10 aircraft per month. At rate 52 this would be sufficient to meet demand. Does anyone know when the other two production lines will start producing max aircraft? Should be soon!

What difference does that make when CFM can't deliver engines for 10.a month?

Does anyone know how bad the situation is relative to CFM Leap-1B delivery?

What is the plan (CFM and Boeing) to avert a total chaos or a train wreck?

VV wrote:

Does anyone know how bad the situation is relative to CFM Leap-1B delivery?

What is the plan (CFM and Boeing) to avert a total chaos or a train wreck?

Production delays at Renton are not solely as a result of CFM delays. Spirit also had issues meeting the ramp up, as well as other vendors outside CFM & Spirit

Think of it has tossing a stone in a calm lake. A small ripple becomes a larger wave.

WoodysAeroimag wrote:

VV wrote:

Does anyone know how bad the situation is relative to CFM Leap-1B delivery?

What is the plan (CFM and Boeing) to avert a total chaos or a train wreck?

Production delays at Renton are not solely as a result of CFM delays. Spirit also had issues meeting the ramp up, as well as other vendors outside CFM & Spirit

Thanks.

I guess everyone is working hard to solve the issues.

I read somewhere they're still expecting to hit the delivery target for 2018, whatever that target is.

SXDFC wrote:

Any idea when the Turkish 737-8MAX will be painted?

It flew today painted wearing a test reg.

Picture on my twitter feed

https://twitter.com/aeroimageschris/sta ... 27266?s=21

WoodysAeroimag wrote:

VV wrote:

Does anyone know how bad the situation is relative to CFM Leap-1B delivery?

What is the plan (CFM and Boeing) to avert a total chaos or a train wreck?

Production delays at Renton are not solely as a result of CFM delays. Spirit also had issues meeting the ramp up, as well as other vendors outside CFM & Spirit

Stored, engine less aircraft are hardly caused by fuselage delays.

WoodysAeroimag wrote:

VV wrote:

Does anyone know how bad the situation is relative to CFM Leap-1B delivery?

What is the plan (CFM and Boeing) to avert a total chaos or a train wreck?

Production delays at Renton are not solely as a result of CFM delays. Spirit also had issues meeting the ramp up, as well as other vendors outside CFM & Spirit

Well that’s a small proportion and not the limiting factor. There are lots stored including on taxiways engineless. Hardly the fault of late fuselages or other components. The engine issues are definitely the most limiting of all.

First Max frames for Kunming, Primera Air, Globus, 9 Air, Lucky Air and Enter Air all coming within the next couple of months. Towards the end of the year first ones for Air Pacific, Royal Air Maroc, Comair and Azerbaijan.

Also the first frames for Zhoushan begin in Q4, starting off with an Air China Max 8.

RobK wrote:

First Max frames for Kunming, Primera Air, Globus, 9 Air, Lucky Air and Enter Air all coming within the next couple of months. Towards the end of the year first ones for Air Pacific, Royal Air Maroc, Comair and Azerbaijan.

Also the first frames for Zhoushan begin in Q4, starting off with an Air China Max 8.

What about SpiceJet? They are guided to receive 11 by the end of the year

Yes, but those are already known about and posted earlier in the thread. First one is VT-MAX then the rest will be VT-MX* block.

ssreekanth2000 wrote:

RobK wrote:

First Max frames for Kunming, Primera Air, Globus, 9 Air, Lucky Air and Enter Air all coming within the next couple of months. Towards the end of the year first ones for Air Pacific, Royal Air Maroc, Comair and Azerbaijan.

Also the first frames for Zhoushan begin in Q4, starting off with an Air China Max 8.

What about SpiceJet? They are guided to receive 11 by the end of the year

Their 1st is in storage behind the final assembly hall awaiting engines and other components.

RobK wrote:

First Max frames for Kunming, Primera Air, Globus, 9 Air, Lucky Air and Enter Air all coming within the next couple of months. Towards the end of the year first ones for Air Pacific, Royal Air Maroc, Comair and Azerbaijan.

Also the first frames for Zhoushan begin in Q4, starting off with an Air China Max 8.

Kunming’s 1st is behind FAL. I’ll post a pictures later today.

Is there much empty space left at RNT for any more aircraft

Is these any update on the landing gear strut design for the B737-10 MAX? Any better images available yet of what it will look like?

What is the forecast of MAX 10 entering the FAL?

TK #1, TC-LCA has been delivered
https://www.flightradar24.com/THY6830/1d89f538

BBJ MAX 8 VP-CMA, has been delivered
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... a#1d866ecb

iahcsr wrote:

Is there much empty space left at RNT for any more aircraft

There are plenty of Western airfields to store max. Slap on a pair of Boeing/CFM engines and fly them to Mojave, Foxfield, Moses lake, or even EAFB to keep out of sight. I probably skipped dozens of other options...

CFM needs to make up both the LEAP-1A and -1B shortage. I'm more than aware of the PW1100 status.

Lightsaber

I should have mentioned the engines would be removed, returned, and repeated with another MAX. With a small crew and an engine lift, it is easy to remove or install engines.

EduardoL wrote:

What is the forecast of MAX 10 entering the FAL?

With the first delivery slated for 2020, that's a great question. Does anyone have any updated production info?

7027 1A954 43707 XA-MAO 737-8 Aeromexico - Delivery
7027 1A954 43707 XA-MAO 737-8 Aeromexico by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7053 1A929 43328 A4O-MD 737-8 Oman Air
7053 1A929 43328 A4O-MD 737-8 Oman Air by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7060 1B114 44456 N326RP 737-8 American Airlines
7060 1B114 44456 N326RP 737-8 American Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7064 1C332 43857 B-1137 737-8 Xiamen Airlines
7064 1C332 43857 B-1137 737-8 Xiamen Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7065 1A743 43951 B-1122 737-8 China Southern
7065 1A743 43951 B-1122 737-8 China Southern by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7070 1B653 61443 B-1120 737-8 Shandong Airlines
7070 1B653 61443 B-1120 737-8 Shandong Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7073 1A311 42836 LN-BKC 737-8 Norwegian
7073 1A311 42836 LN-BKC 737-8 Norwegian by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7075 1A744 63268 B-1127 737-8 China Southern
7075 1A744 63268 B-1127 737-8 China Southern by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7077 1A312 42834 EI-FYI 737-8 Norwegian
7077 1A312 42834 EI-FYI 737-8 Norwegian by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7080 1C402 62447 ET-AVL 737-8 Ethiopian Airlines
7080 1C402 62447 ET-AVL 737-8 Ethiopian Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7088 1C702 60033 TC-LCB 737-8 Turkish Airlines - Engines Installed
7088 1C702 60033 TC-LCB 737-8 Turkish Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7090 1A021 42548 N8721J 737-8 Southwest Airlines - Engines Installed
7090 1A021 42548 N8721J 737-8 Southwest Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7095 1C703 60034 TC-LCC 737-8 Turkish Airlines - Engines Installed
7095 1C703 60034 TC-LCC 737-8 Turkish Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7115 1A023 42574 N8723Q 737-8 Southwest Airlines
7115 1A023 42574 N8723Q 737-8 Southwest Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7118 1A211 737-8 Lion Air
7118 1A211 737-8 Lion Air by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7120 737-8 Okay Air
7120 737-8 Okay Air by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7123 737-8 Air China
7123 737-8 Air China by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7128 1C704 60035 TC-LCD 737-8 Turkish Airlines
7128 1C704 60035 TC-LCD 737-8 Turkish Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7132 1C705 60036 TC-LCF 737-8 Turkish Airlines
7132 1C705 60036 TC-LCF 737-8 Turkish Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7133 1A930 A4O-ME 737-8 Oman Air
7133 1A930 A4O-ME 737-8 Oman Air by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7138 737-8 Ethiopian Airlines
7138 737-8 Ethiopian Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7153 737-8 Southwest Airlines
7153 737-8 Southwest Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

flyingclrs727 wrote:

travelhound wrote:

So, at this stage the single max line is producing approximately 10 aircraft per month. At rate 52 this would be sufficient to meet demand. Does anyone know when the other two production lines will start producing max aircraft? Should be soon!

What difference does that make when CFM can't deliver engines for 10.a month?

I'll rephrase:
1. CFM, Spirit and other vendors are having issues producing at 10 MAX/month.
2. To Transition requires shutting down the line and setting up for the max, perhaps a week to reconfigure.
3. Not transitioning is an issue and vendors have contract ramp down rates. CFM tried to have vendors waive the ramp down penalties and there was a resounding rejection. For example parts are of different materials and require different machines to manufacture.

Soon Boeing will have to switch one line to the MAX as there simply isn't enough NG backlog otherwise. Traditionally vendors complete kit delivery in October, but some will end earlier. There is a few weeks to assemble and then mid-November or early December the line will switch over.

I fully expect in October LEAP engine production to catch up. I also fully expect the new line to pump out engineless MAXs at a new rate.

Lightsaber

While there is always a possibility for change, Boeing addressed the current build up of 737s. Their statement covered the fact that production would outpace deliveries in the 3rd quarter but that deliveries would catch back up and meet stated numbers before years end.

As for engine problems, it's better than the F-14 Tomcat in the early days. The USN was using the few good TF-30s to fly Tomcats cross country from Long Island to California. Upon arrival, the TF-30s would be removed and trucked back to Long Island to bring in the next F-14.

6308 1D002 42989 N739EX 737-9 Lion Air
6308 1D002 42989 N739EX 737-9 Lion Air by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7043 1B931 61136 B-1160 737-8 Shenzhen Airlines
7043 1B931 61136 B-1160 737-8 Shenzhen Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7045 1B568 43558 VT-JXD 737-8 Jet Airways
7045 1B568 43558 VT-JXD 737-8 Jet Airways by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7077 1A312 42834 EI-FYI 737-8 Norwegian
7077 1A312 42834 EI-FYI 737-8 Norwegian by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7085 1B569 44863 VT-JXE 737-8 Jet Airways- Engines Installed
7085 1B569 44863 VT-JXE 737-8 Jet Airways by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7093 1B115 44457 N328RR 737-8 American Airlines and 7111 1A022 37019 N8722L 737-8 Southwest Airlines
7111 1A022 37019 N8722L 737-8 Southwest Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7098 1A727 62876 737-8 China Southern
7098 1A727 62876 737-8 China Southern by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7103 1C501 60644 VT-MAX 737-8 SpiceJet
7103 1C501 60644 VT-MAX 737-8 SpiceJet by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7158 737-8 Kunming Airlines
7158 737-8 Kunming Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr
7158 737-8 Kunming Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7160 737-8 Shandong Airlines
7160 737-8 Shandong Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

5668 1A002 36989 N8702L 737-8 Southwest Airlines
5668 1A002 36989 N8702L 737-8 Southwest Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

iahcsr wrote:

Is there much empty space left at RNT for any more aircraft

This is what it looks like around Renton as the airframes back up due to supplier delays.

Compass Rose by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

Outside FAL by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

Outside FAL by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7043 1B931 61136 B-1160 737-8 Shenzhen Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

Once a pair of engines have arrived and are ready for installation, how long does it take to install both of them and ‘boot them up’ for takeoff?

FriscoHeavy wrote:

Once a pair of engines have arrived and are ready for installation, how long does it take to install both of them and ‘boot them up’ for takeoff?

Consider there is quite a few MAXes standing there with engines, and has for several weeks, there is clearly other things delaying the aircraft as well

Someone83 wrote:

FriscoHeavy wrote:

Once a pair of engines have arrived and are ready for installation, how long does it take to install both of them and ‘boot them up’ for takeoff?

Consider there is quite a few MAXes standing there with engines, and has for several weeks, there is clearly other things delaying the aircraft as well

They don't fly the moment they get their engines installed... The NGs that roll out with their engines already installed typically sit in a flight line stall for 2-3 weeks before taking to the air as there are numerous pre-flight tasks to complete before they can fly. The Max frames won't be any different in that regard and from my observations once fitted with their engines they too are taking to the air approx 2-3 weeks later so your comment "clearly other things delaying the aircraft" is nonsense.

RobK wrote:

Someone83 wrote:

FriscoHeavy wrote:

Once a pair of engines have arrived and are ready for installation, how long does it take to install both of them and ‘boot them up’ for takeoff?

Consider there is quite a few MAXes standing there with engines, and has for several weeks, there is clearly other things delaying the aircraft as well

They don't fly the moment they get their engines installed... The NGs that roll out with their engines already installed typically sit in a flight line stall for 2-3 weeks before taking to the air as there are numerous pre-flight tasks to complete before they can fly. The Max frames won't be any different in that regard and from my observations once fitted with their engines they too are taking to the air approx 2-3 weeks later so your comment "clearly other things delaying the aircraft" is nonsense.

There are other things causing the delays. Parts of the APU exhaust are delayed, as well as critical parts in the cockpit from what a Boeing employee told me. The APU parts are also impacting the NG line as LN7106, 7091, and 7101 are missing critical APU parts as well.

RobK wrote:

The NGs that roll out with their engines already installed typically sit in a flight line stall for 2-3 weeks before taking to the air as there are numerous pre-flight tasks to complete before they can fly. The Max frames won't be any different in that regard and from my observations once fitted with their engines they too are taking to the air approx 2-3 weeks later so your comment "clearly other things delaying the aircraft" is nonsense.

The industry focus is on just in time, minimising holding costs and interest, and working cash hard.

A constant 2-3 week delay suggests a bottleneck or two, especially as by that point, the owner has parted with over 50% of the aircraft purchase price, so is keen to settle the balance (unless funding issues) and take delivery.

The Goal by Goldratt and Cox, is a popular board and senior management read at Boeing (and Airbus), so expert minds must be tasked to shorten the 'sitting' time.

Wing for Globus (S7 Airlines)
737-8 Globus by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7050 1C331 43830 B-1118 737-8 Xiamen Airlines - Engine Runs
7050 1C331 43830 B-1118 737-8 Xiamen Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7065 1A743 43951 B-1122 737-8 China Southern - Engine Runs
7065 1A743 43951 B-1122 737-8 China Southern by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7073 1A311 42836 LN-BKC 737-8 Norwegian
7073 1A311 42836 LN-BKC 737-8 Norwegian by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7125 1B008 A6-FMG 737-8 Flydubai
7125 1B008 A6-FMG 737-8 Flydubai by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7130 1A024 42549 N8724J 737-8 Southwest Airlines
7130 1A024 42549 N8724J 737-8 Southwest Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7133 1A930 A4O-ME 737-8 Oman Air
7133 1A930 A4O-ME 737-8 Oman Air by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7143 1A025 42575 N8725L 737-8 Southwest Airlines
7143 1A025 42575 N8725L 737-8 Southwest Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7147 737-8 Shenzhen Airlines
7147 737-8 Shenzhen Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7045 1B567 43558 VT-JXD 737-8 Jet Airways - First Flight
7045 1B567 43558 VT-JXD 737-8 Jet Airways by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7062 1A611 61631 B-1152 737-8 Shanghai Airlines
7062 1A611 61631 B-1152 737-8 Shanghai Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7064 1C332 43857 B-1137 737-8 Xiamen Airlines - Engine Runs
7064 1C332 43857 B-1137 737-8 Xiamen Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7065 1A742 43951 B-1122 737-8 China Southern - First Flight
7065 1A742 43951 B-1122 737-8 China Southern by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7070 1B653 61443 B-1120 737-8 Shandong Airlines - B1 Delayed
7070 1B653 61443 B-1120 737-8 Shandong Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7073 1A311 42836 LN-BKC 737-8 Norwegian
7073 1A311 42836 LN-BKC 737-8 Norwegian by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7077 1A312 42834 EI-FYI 737-8 Norwegian
7077 1A312 42834 EI-FYI 737-8 Norwegian by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7083 1A745 62873 B-1165 737-8 China Southern - Engines Installed
7083 1A745 62873 B-1165 737-8 China Southern by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7085 1B569 44863 VT-JXE 737-8 Jet Airways
7085 1B569 44863 VT-JXE 737-8 Jet Airways by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7103 1C501 60644 VT-MAX 737-8 SpiceJet - Engines Installed
7103 1C501 60644 VT-MAX 737-8 SpiceJet by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7118 1A211 737-8 Lion Air
7118 1A211 737-8 Lion Air by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7133 1A930 43794 A4O-ME 737-8 Oman Air - Engines Installed
7133 1A930 43794 A4O-ME 737-8 Oman Air by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7143 1A026 42573 N8726H 737-8 Southwest Airlines
7143 1A026 42573 N8726H 737-8 Southwest Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7148 1C334 737-8 Xiamen Airlines
7148 1C334 737-8 Xiamen Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7163 737-9 Primera Air
7163 737-9 Primera Air by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7163 737-9 Primera Air by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7111 1A022 37019 N8722L 737-8 Southwest Airlines and 7135 1A025 42575 N8725L 737-8 Southwest Airlines
7111 1A022 37019 N8722L 737-8 Southwest Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

According to Uresh at All Things 787, Boeing is having problems getting seats for the Dreamliners. He seemed to speculate that perhaps that is also part of the Max problem.

7053 1A929 43328 A4O-MD 737-8 Oman Air - Painted
7053 1A929 43328 A4O-MD 737-8 Oman Air by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7075 1A744 63268 B-1127 737-8 China Southern - Painted
7075 1A744 63268 B-1127 737-8 China Southern by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7088 1C702 60033 TC-LCB 737-8 Turkish Airlines
7088 1C702 60033 TC-LCB 737-8 Turkish Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7090 1A021 42548 N8721J 737-8 Southwest Airlines
7090 1A021 42548 N8721J 737-8 Southwest Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7093 1B115 44457 N328RR 737-8 American Airlines
7093 1B115 44457 N328RR 737-8 American Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7095 1C703 60034 TC-LCC 737-8 Turkish Airlines - Engines Installed
7095 1C703 60034 TC-LCC 737-8 Turkish Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7111 1A022 37019 N8722L 737-8 Southwest Airlines - Engines Installed
7111 1A022 37019 N8722L 737-8 Southwest Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7115 1A023 42574 N8723Q 737-8 Southwest Airlines - Engines Installed
7115 1A023 42574 N8723Q 737-8 Southwest Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7138 1C403 737-8 Ethiopian Airlines
7138 1C403 737-8 Ethiopian Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7143 1A026 42573 N8726H 737-8 Southwest Airlines
7143 1A026 42573 N8726H 737-8 Southwest Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7145 737-8 Smartwings
7145 737-8 Smartwings by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7148 1C334 737-8 Xiamen Airlines
7148 1C334 737-8 Xiamen Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7163 737-9 Primera Air
FAL by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7166 737-8 Globus S7 Airlines - Winglet can be seen in FAL in 1st picture and with grey tail behind Primera Air MAX
7166 737-8 Globus S7 Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr
FAL by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7168 737-8 Norwegian
7168 737-8 Norwegian by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7173 1D107 43437 N37507 737-9 United Airlines
7173 1D107 43437 N37507 737-9 United Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

Shandong Airlines 737MAX8 B-1120 doing a touch and go at PAE while on a customer acceptance flight



https://twitter.com/JenSchuld/status/10 ... 0006256640

Delivered a couple days ago, Jet Airways 737MAX8 VT-JXC

https://twitter.com/FlightIntl/status/1 ... 3689753603

6308 1D002 42989 N739EX 737-9 Thai Lion Air
6308 1D002 42989 N739EX 737-9 Lion Air by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7053 1A929 43328 A4O-MD 737-8 Oman Air
7053 1A929 43328 A4O-MD 737-8 Oman Air by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7080 1C402 62447 ET-AVL 737-8 Ethiopian Airlines
7080 1C402 62447 ET-AVL 737-8 Ethiopian Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

7096 1D051 44161 HP-9901CMP 737-9 Copa Airlines
7096 1D051 44161 HP-9901CMP 737-9 Copa Airlines by 737 MAX Production, on Flickr

China Southern 737MAX8 B-1121 has been delivered

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/b-1121

Ethiopian Airlines 737MAX8 ET-AVL has been delivered

https://twitter.com/flightintl/status/1 ... 59585?s=21

Sheesh, Copa needs a new livery man. It’s looking dated, I’m glad UA decided to put the Dreamliner livery on their MAX 9s

smartplane wrote:

RobK wrote:

The NGs that roll out with their engines already installed typically sit in a flight line stall for 2-3 weeks before taking to the air as there are numerous pre-flight tasks to complete before they can fly. The Max frames won't be any different in that regard and from my observations once fitted with their engines they too are taking to the air approx 2-3 weeks later so your comment "clearly other things delaying the aircraft" is nonsense.

The industry focus is on just in time, minimising holding costs and interest, and working cash hard.

A constant 2-3 week delay suggests a bottleneck or two, especially as by that point, the owner has parted with over 50% of the aircraft purchase price, so is keen to settle the balance (unless funding issues) and take delivery.

The Goal by Goldratt and Cox, is a popular board and senior management read at Boeing (and Airbus), so expert minds must be tasked to shorten the 'sitting' time.

It might be setup, use, and moving of test equipment.

Normally:. Engine install, gauntlet 1, mate connections. The above is about 2 days on the line.

No engines:. Mini gauntlet, mate (partial), tow out, unmate, install engines, gauntlet, mate.

Note: All mating is completed by the end of the gauntlet testing, it is really in parallel.

Moving this outside adds days to testing.
It should be:
Initial ground test
Fuel test/Post fuel ground testing
Taxi testing
Aborted takeoff/B1 flight
C1 flight

Each of the above should be a workday for each row. Or 1 week to delivery. NGs can beat that as any optimized process will (MAXes aren't there nor should we expect that).

This implies either rework or missing parts. At this point, I do expect a week or rework that will later be brought into the factory.

Is it one or a few customers? (Seats?)

If Spirit has travelled work going outside... Ouch. There is that possibility too... (Barrels under-stuffed?)

I'm a huge fan of barrel stuffing. It is tremendously efficient.

lightsaber wrote:

It might be setup, use, and moving of test equipment.

Normally:. Engine install, gauntlet 1, mate connections. The above is about 2 days on the line.

No engines:. Mini gauntlet, mate (partial), tow out, unmate, install engines, gauntlet, mate.

Note: All mating is completed by the end of the gauntlet testing, it is really in parallel.

Moving this outside adds days to testing.
It should be:
Initial ground test
Fuel test/Post fuel ground testing
Taxi testing
Aborted takeoff/B1 flight
C1 flight

Each of the above should be a workday for each row. Or 1 week to delivery. NGs can beat that as any optimized process will (MAXes aren't there nor should we expect that).

This implies either rework or missing parts. At this point, I do expect a week or rework that will later be brought into the factory.

Is it one or a few customers? (Seats?)

If Spirit has travelled work going outside... Ouch. There is that possibility too... (Barrels under-stuffed?)

I'm a huge fan of barrel stuffing. It is tremendously efficient.

In another thread yesterday you mentioned an upcoming month-long shutdown at Renton. Can you elaborate?

mham001 wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

It might be setup, use, and moving of test equipment.

Normally:. Engine install, gauntlet 1, mate connections. The above is about 2 days on the line.

No engines:. Mini gauntlet, mate (partial), tow out, unmate, install engines, gauntlet, mate.

Note: All mating is completed by the end of the gauntlet testing, it is really in parallel.

Moving this outside adds days to testing.
It should be:
Initial ground test
Fuel test/Post fuel ground testing
Taxi testing
Aborted takeoff/B1 flight
C1 flight

Each of the above should be a workday for each row. Or 1 week to delivery. NGs can beat that as any optimized process will (MAXes aren't there nor should we expect that).

This implies either rework or missing parts. At this point, I do expect a week or rework that will later be brought into the factory.

Is it one or a few customers? (Seats?)

If Spirit has travelled work going outside... Ouch. There is that possibility too... (Barrels under-stuffed?)

I'm a huge fan of barrel stuffing. It is tremendously efficient.

In another thread yesterday you mentioned an upcoming month-long shutdown at Renton. Can you elaborate?

Where did he say this? Is lightsaber a reliable source? There are a number of self-appointed "experts" that post in these production threads from time to time and with one or two exceptions most of what they post is a load of crap.

RobK wrote:

mham001 wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

It might be setup, use, and moving of test equipment.

Normally:. Engine install, gauntlet 1, mate connections. The above is about 2 days on the line.

No engines:. Mini gauntlet, mate (partial), tow out, unmate, install engines, gauntlet, mate.

Note: All mating is completed by the end of the gauntlet testing, it is really in parallel.

Moving this outside adds days to testing.
It should be:
Initial ground test
Fuel test/Post fuel ground testing
Taxi testing
Aborted takeoff/B1 flight
C1 flight

Each of the above should be a workday for each row. Or 1 week to delivery. NGs can beat that as any optimized process will (MAXes aren't there nor should we expect that).

This implies either rework or missing parts. At this point, I do expect a week or rework that will later be brought into the factory.

Is it one or a few customers? (Seats?)

If Spirit has travelled work going outside... Ouch. There is that possibility too... (Barrels under-stuffed?)

I'm a huge fan of barrel stuffing. It is tremendously efficient.

In another thread yesterday you mentioned an upcoming month-long shutdown at Renton. Can you elaborate?

Where did he say this? Is lightsaber a reliable source? There are a number of self-appointed "experts" that post in these production threads from time to time and with one or two exceptions most of what they post is a load of crap.

I pointed out the timeline to shut down one of the two NG lines to convert to MAX. That has to happen. I gave my opinion on the timeline.

You should know I am working in the industry.

Before calling another users opinion crap, please read the forums rules. I happen to know there are half a dozen true experts posting in these threads. After a while you know who has worked the industry and who hasn't.

I also posted a link in another thread about a possible line shutdown to reorganize. Have you read anything about Knudson? He revolutionized production at Chevrolet before WW2 and was in charge of US war production, which went well...

One issue is rework. At the start of production it is cheaper to undo work and then redo it. The greatest example was the Kansas City B-29 rework. All they did was rewire and change windows of Wichita built B-29s. All of them. That was a faster production ramp than fixing the B-29 plant. It is how Chevrolet out produced Ford (Ford hated rework).

To me it is obvious rework is going on for MAX production and travelled work too. But that is just my opinion.

At some point stopping production and fixing the production flow is best. That is why auto makers started model years (another Knudson innovation).

I hypothesize this should happen.

Now, other people here know a bit of my experience. If they want my opinion, please let them ask. Please read the forums rules for just calling so called expert advice as crap misses the point. There are real experts in many topics that post here.

We have experts in aircraft financing, operations, and maintenance. Those are not my specialties, but I'll still voice an opinion. We also have experts in aircraft design, test and manufacturing who post here. It will be your challenge to determine who to listen to or who to ignore.

I see production far behind schedule. It isn't just engines. Be a positive influence and post how you would fix the issue.

Lightsaber

when does virgin australia receive their first max

lightsaber wrote:

RobK wrote:

mham001 wrote:

In another thread yesterday you mentioned an upcoming month-long shutdown at Renton. Can you elaborate?

Where did he say this? Is lightsaber a reliable source? There are a number of self-appointed "experts" that post in these production threads from time to time and with one or two exceptions most of what they post is a load of crap.

I pointed out the timeline to shut down one of the two NG lines to convert to MAX. That has to happen. I gave my opinion on the timeline.

You should know I am working in the industry.

Before calling another users opinion crap, please read the forums rules. I happen to know there are half a dozen true experts posting in these threads. After a while you know who has worked the industry and who hasn't.

I also posted a link in another thread about a possible line shutdown to reorganize. Have you read anything about Knudson? He revolutionized production at Chevrolet before WW2 and was in charge of US war production, which went well...

One issue is rework. At the start of production it is cheaper to undo work and then redo it. The greatest example was the Kansas City B-29 rework. All they did was rewire and change windows of Wichita built B-29s. All of them. That was a faster production ramp than fixing the B-29 plant. It is how Chevrolet out produced Ford (Ford hated rework).

To me it is obvious rework is going on for MAX production and travelled work too. But that is just my opinion.

At some point stopping production and fixing the production flow is best. That is why auto makers started model years (another Knudson innovation).

I hypothesize this should happen.

Now, other people here know a bit of my experience. If they want my opinion, please let them ask. Please read the forums rules for just calling so called expert advice as crap misses the point. There are real experts in many topics that post here.

We have experts in aircraft financing, operations, and maintenance. Those are not my specialties, but I'll still voice an opinion. We also have experts in aircraft design, test and manufacturing who post here. It will be your challenge to determine who to listen to or who to ignore.

I see production far behind schedule. It isn't just engines. Be a positive influence and post how you would fix the issue.

Lightsaber

Speaking only for myself I shall simply wait and watch what Boeing does to sort out the various issues involved. I’m sure hindsight will bring much Monday morning quarterbacking (sorry to non-Yanks )

wiggy wrote:

when does virgin australia receive their first max

First delivery is November 2019