Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

pabloeing · Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:14 pm

theobcman wrote:
Is there date yet for the first delivery to IB ? And will they use it on MAD-LHR for crew training ?

June 2018

KarelXWB · Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:09 pm

MSN 174 LH #7 has moved to the delivery centre.

KarelXWB · Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:08 pm

MSN 187 HX #4 has rolled out to the flight line.

KarelXWB · Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:12 am

Well, MSN 179 CI #11 is on its first CAF (AIB03NX) this morning.

hkcanadaexpat · Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:45 am

MSN 186 (SQ#21) initial engine run this afternoon.

hkcanadaexpat · Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:21 pm

MSN 184 (LH#8) RTO this afternoon.
MSN 183 (MH#3) initial engine run this afternoon.

KarelXWB · Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:34 pm

Few photos of MSN 174 LH #7 during its customer acceptance walk: https://twitter.com/lufthansaNews/statu ... 1028169730

BOAC1966 · Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:41 am

After sluggish start things look very busy at TLS! New management teams endeavouring to make their presence felt.Also -1000 noticeably more active with development flying. .....MSN1 regularly airborne for -900 enhancements. See couple of new EASA provisional ADs on potential corrosion and improving sealants coming to light as hours clock up.

Does anyone have latest figures on -900 performance and reliability plus which aircraft has the greatest number of hours? Do MX staff enjoy this aircraft and are AB giving required support with good technical information and spares?

KarelXWB · Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:25 pm

MSN 174 LH #7 ready for its first CAF: https://fr24.com/AIB03HI/102935cd

https://twitter.com/lufthansaNews/statu ... 3215698944

StTim · Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:39 pm

Pretty sure I saw it flying earlier today.

StTim · Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:40 pm

Confirmed as a successful flight.
https://twitter.com/lufthansaNews/statu ... 9627875328

KarelXWB · Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:45 pm

MSN 60 3U #1 has been moved to the theater area at the delivery centre.

Msn60 F-WZFK 18/1/2018 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr

ap305 · Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:53 pm

It looks like a batch 4 a350-900 is on the way... Iberia gets a new version with improved aerodynamics, structure, landing gear etc. I guess all this is from the -1000 development.

http://grupo.iberia.es/portal/site/WebC ... mCysEtLei4

TropicalSky · Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:00 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
MSN 174 LH #7 ready for its first CAF: https://fr24.com/AIB03HI/102935cd

https://twitter.com/lufthansaNews/statu ... 3215698944

This is awesome Karel ..... I've never seen what the test regime is exactly on customer acceptance flight entails.....thanks for sharing

mat66 · Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:12 pm

ap305 wrote:
It looks like a batch 4 a350-900 is on the way... Iberia gets a new version with improved aerodynamics, structure, landing gear etc. I guess all this is from the -1000 development.

http://grupo.iberia.es/portal/site/WebC ... mCysEtLei4

Thanks for posting. I ran what I think is the important paragraph through google translate.

"Iberia será la primera compañía en recibir una nueva versión mejorada del A350/900 en cuanto a aerodinámica, estructura y algunos elementos como el tren de aterrizaje, que se ha reforzado."

"Iberia will be the first company to receive a new improved version of the A350 / 900 in terms of aerodynamics, structure and some elements such as the landing gear, which has been reinforced."

Does anyone know some specifics about this? We should see their first (MSN219) in April. It is surely too soon for the new winglets, isn't it? So is it the wing twist Airbus talked about? I remember the -900 will get carbon window frames, carbon door surround structure and a redesigned bilge (?) structure from the -1000. Iberia definitely need the new aft galley. I still wonder how they get all those seats in there. 31C 24W 293Y = 348 !

I found this image:

hkcanadaexpat · Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:07 am

First flight for MSN 184 (LH#8) #AIB01GR

Jayafe · Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:39 am

ap305 wrote:
It looks like a batch 4 a350-900 is on the way... Iberia gets a new version with improved aerodynamics, structure, landing gear etc. I guess all this is from the -1000 development.

http://grupo.iberia.es/portal/site/WebC ... mCysEtLei4

It comes with the all the new ULR hardware, including landing gear

Some information wrapped around aviation blogs:
275Tm, able to get 280Tm certification, all hardware already in place including landing gear for ULR operation after a potential certification change.
Lighter wing (1 less carbon layer on both upper and bottom side of the wing)
New wing twist for a higher nose position
Flap guides 30 cm longer
New winglet (50cm taller)
Redesign of the bottom of the fuselage below the cargo hold
Redesign of the upper fuselage union wing-frame
Modified window frames

hkcanadaexpat · Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:00 am

MSN 189 (TG#11) has made its way to the flightline. This makes 4 TG frames on the flightline at once.

StTim · Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:17 am

The production process on the new frames appears to have really settled down. Far too many early frames still hanging around.

BobMUC · Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:31 pm

StTim wrote:
Far too many early frames still hanging around.

If you subtract all Qatar and Chinese birds from this list (because there are other reasons behind this), I don't see this point!

Regards.

StTim · Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Oh I know there are reasons for them Bob. It is just frustrating to see - and must be even more frustrating for Airbus.

KarelXWB · Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:02 pm

MSN 167 Air China #1 has been pulled out of temp storage and is undergoing some preparations inside the hangar. We may see it at the flight line in the coming weeks.

F-WZHG 1st A350 for Air China by @Eurospot, on Flickr

KarelXWB · Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:06 pm

Jayafe wrote:
ap305 wrote:
It looks like a batch 4 a350-900 is on the way... Iberia gets a new version with improved aerodynamics, structure, landing gear etc. I guess all this is from the -1000 development.

http://grupo.iberia.es/portal/site/WebC ... mCysEtLei4

It comes with the all the new ULR hardware, including landing gear

Some information wrapped around aviation blogs:
275Tm, able to get 280Tm certification, all hardware already in place including landing gear for ULR operation after a potential certification change.
Lighter wing (1 less carbon layer on both upper and bottom side of the wing)
New wing twist for a higher nose position
Flap guides 30 cm longer
New winglet (50cm taller)
Redesign of the bottom of the fuselage below the cargo hold
Redesign of the upper fuselage union wing-frame
Modified window frames

KarelXWB · Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:09 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
MSN 189 TG #11 is to follow before the end of the month, making 4 Thai A350s ready for delivery.

hkcanadaexpat wrote:
MSN 189 (TG#11) has made its way to the flightline. This makes 4 TG frames on the flightline at once.

Straight out of paint.

KarelXWB · Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:53 pm

MSN 177 TG #8 has moved to the delivery centre.

Msn177 F-WZGC 19/1/2018 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr

DOHspotter · Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:42 pm

According to this tweet, the A350-1000 will be in Oman this weekend.
Could anybody here confirm this, and if true, what is the reason of such a visit?
http://twitter.com/Hafedh955/status/955074480119926784

KarelXWB · Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:46 pm

MSN 201 TG #12 and MSN 202 LH #9 emerged from final assembly.

MSN202 - Is the new Lufthansa tail livery hiding under the white plastic? by DigitalAirliners.com, on Flickr

KarelXWB · Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:25 pm

EASA type certificate for the Trent XWB has been extended with ETOPS approval for the A350-1000 engine.

https://www.easa.europa.eu/system/files ... 012018.pdf

StTim · Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:37 pm

Still only 120 minutes at this time - compared to 405 minutes for the XWB84

BOAC1966 · Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:09 pm

Interesting ETOPs limited at this stage ....I wonder if engine issues have been the reason at least in part to sluggish test programme in recent weeks?

itisi · Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:03 am

DOHspotter wrote:
According to this tweet, the A350-1000 will be in Oman this weekend.
Could anybody here confirm this, and if true, what is the reason of such a visit?
http://twitter.com/Hafedh955/status/955074480119926784

Think it's visiting Hong Kong at the end of the month too.

hkcanadaexpat · Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:52 am

MSN 180 (ET#7) has been moved to the delivery centre.

KarelXWB · Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:44 am

The next LATAM A350, MSN 200, is out of FAL too.

Lufthansa Airbus A350-941 cn 202 F-WZGO // D-AIXI by Clément Alloing, on Flickr

KarelXWB · Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:48 am

MSN 88 is back on the flight line after some cabin rework and paint retouch was performed.

StTim · Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:59 am

The cabin product for Qatar seems to cause most of the issues.

KarelXWB · Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:00 am

Delivery is scheduled for next month (February).

ap305 · Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:24 pm

http://www.reuters.com/article/qatar-ai ... SL8N1PH26I

The “complex seat configuration” has had implications on the certification of the aircraft, though the airline had taken ownership of the aircraft late last year, Baker said, without giving details.

Looks like the qsuite has for some reason is affected on the -1000 and not the -900. Qr also saying they contractually took the aircraft last year.

StTim · Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:29 pm

MSN132 was stated by Airbus as delivered (as in title transferred) in their numbers for 2017 but with delayed delivery due to post "delivery" work on the Qsuite. So I think it has affected both versions.

StTim · Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:32 pm

MSN186 off on its first flight.

https://www.flightradar24.com/AIB01TW/103301a3

StTim · Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:15 pm

MSN183 did its RTO today.

WIederling · Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:29 pm

Jayafe wrote:
Lighter wing (1 less carbon layer on both upper and bottom side of the wing)

Any idea how much weight saving that constitutes?

same for the new doorframing.

StTim · Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:34 pm

WIederling wrote:
Jayafe wrote:
Lighter wing (1 less carbon layer on both upper and bottom side of the wing)

Any idea how much weight saving that constitutes?

same for the new doorframing.

Obviously enough to make it worthwhile.

- Less raw material used
- quicker lay up times
- less weight on the frame.

Fram Airbus perspective I think point 1 and 2 are sufficient to implement such a change.

mat66 · Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:19 pm

WIederling wrote:
Jayafe wrote:
Lighter wing (1 less carbon layer on both upper and bottom side of the wing)

Any idea how much weight saving that constitutes?

same for the new doorframing.

There is a pilot eye.tv episode about a Lufthansa A350 flight MUC-BOS. They have several bits about the production process. In one part they visit the Bremen factory where the wing cover is made. Just checked it, they talk about 260 layers at a specific point of the cover, which is 2.7cm thick.
I don't know if Iberia is talking about the same "layers", but at 0.1mm one layer can't be much.

ap305 · Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:00 pm

http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/news/en/ ... style.html

The a350 is likely to get riblets on its wings and horizontal tail from 2020...

mat66 · Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:24 pm

ap305 wrote:
http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/news/en/2018/01/biomimicry--engineering-in-nature-s-style.html

The a350 is likely to get riblets on its wings and horizontal tail from 2020...

I was curious and just googled "shark skin tooth-like riblets" and apart from interesting pictures, found this study : http://jeb.biologists.org/content/217/10/1656
Don't get me wrong, I just read the abstract. The pictures are nice and Fig.10 is interesting. They are tiny and 3D printed.

From a total layman's perspective I see 2 problems. You have to keep this very very clean to work as desired and ice formation in the riblets. Smart people there at Airbus. They figure that out

BobMUC · Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:54 pm

mat66 wrote:
ap305 wrote:
http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/news/en/2018/01/biomimicry--engineering-in-nature-s-style.html

The a350 is likely to get riblets on its wings and horizontal tail from 2020...

I was curious and just googled "shark skin tooth-like riblets" and apart from interesting pictures, found this study : http://jeb.biologists.org/content/217/10/1656
Don't get me wrong, I just read the abstract. The pictures are nice and Fig.10 is interesting. They are tiny and 3D printed.

From a total layman's perspective I see 2 problems. You have to keep this very very clean to work as desired and ice formation in the riblets. Smart people there at Airbus. They figure that out

To keep it clean might not be a problem: "lotus effect"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_effect

Ice... I don't know!

SteinarN · Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:09 pm

WIederling wrote:
Jayafe wrote:
Lighter wing (1 less carbon layer on both upper and bottom side of the wing)

Any idea how much weight saving that constitutes?

same for the new doorframing.

Napkin calculation...
Carbon fiber, 300 grams/sqmtr, resin for this layer is about 250 grams, so, 550 grams/sqmtr. Double this for both top and underside of the wing and you are at 1,1 kg/sqmtr wing.
What is the wing area, 480 sqmtr? Lets say the area in front of and behind the main spars is 30% of this area, then we are left with about 335 sqmtr wing between the main spars where this reduction will be done.
335*1,1 is rougly 370 kg weight reduction from this change. Happy to be corrected though.

mat66 · Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:10 pm

BobMUC wrote:
mat66 wrote:
ap305 wrote:
http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/news/en/2018/01/biomimicry--engineering-in-nature-s-style.html

The a350 is likely to get riblets on its wings and horizontal tail from 2020...

I was curious and just googled "shark skin tooth-like riblets" and apart from interesting pictures, found this study : http://jeb.biologists.org/content/217/10/1656
Don't get me wrong, I just read the abstract. The pictures are nice and Fig.10 is interesting. They are tiny and 3D printed.

From a total layman's perspective I see 2 problems. You have to keep this very very clean to work as desired and ice formation in the riblets. Smart people there at Airbus. They figure that out

To keep it clean might not be a problem: "lotus effect"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_effect

Ice... I don't know!

Interesting. That could work. Really good news for Air France. :duck:

mat66 · Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:01 pm

Sorry to everyone for distracting this tread. One last question. Promised.

SteinarN wrote:
Napkin calculation...
Carbon fiber, 300 grams/sqmtr, resin for this layer is about 250 grams, so, 550 grams/sqmtr. Double this for both top and underside of the wing and you are at 1,1 kg/sqmtr wing.
What is the wing area, 480 sqmtr? Lets say the area in front of and behind the main spars is 30% of this area, then we are left with about 335 sqmtr wing between the main spars where this reduction will be done.
335*1,1 is rougly 370 kg weight reduction from this change. Happy to be corrected though.

Could it be that your sqmtr of carbon at 550grams is about 1mm thick? My napkin calculation gets me 35-40kg weight reduction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGBlv_kbD4U (Video in German with English subtitles). The interesting part is at 2:41min. The engineer in the video talks about 260 layers and 2,7cm.
Then of course if the cover is 1mm(10 layers)thinner, you are right.
btw. she also mentioned they need 48 rolls of carbon of 60kg each for one wing cover. 2880kg minus cut.

SteinarN · Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:38 pm

The finnished carbon/resin composite would weight something around 1,4 kg/mm/sqmtr. So a 1,1 kg/sqmtr would be about 0,8mm thick.
But you are probably correct that this is way too much for one single unidirectional layer. But a 0,1mm thick layer is only about 100 grams/sqmtr or less of carbon, that is a very thin layer.

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