The domestic routes I fly the most have many frequencies a day, roughly 5-8 nonstop flights. Most of them are 738/9’s and “maybe” one Airbus. So I don’t get to sit in the new F seat that often. One thing that really underscores the fact aesthetics really do matter were my 3/4 flights on the newly renovated A319’s that came from CZ. When the entire cabin is new and beautiful, bulkheads, carpets, sidewalls and Lavs...with the new F seat, it makes a powerful new holistic impression for UA. I’m assuming that all the new 73MAX’s are being delivered with those new interiors?
Yesterday I flew from Denver to EWR on a 752. I bought up to F for the bed seat. I knew I’d be exhausted from my marathon meetings and dinners, wow what a great thing that is to get on a domestic flight! I totally caught up on my lack of sleep.
Question: Of the big 3, who flies the most bed seats in domestic First? Has anyone ever figured that out? (Considering the HD 772’s*, and when any of the US3 use international aircraft on scheduled domestic runs)
* I really don’t know, but have Delta and AA created their versions of UA’s HD 772’s?

Last: at about 10:20am I saw a UA 77W at DEN, what was she doing there?

Thanks all!

splitterz wrote:

A quick shout out to iahcsr, calpsafltskeds, CALTECH, and many others for their on going support of this thread. We all appreciate it.

Definitely agree with this. Thank you!

airlineaddict wrote:

splitterz wrote:

A quick shout out to iahcsr, calpsafltskeds, CALTECH, and many others for their on going support of this thread. We all appreciate it.

Definitely agree with this. Thank you!

DITTO THAT! Thanks for all the hard work.

What will we all talk about when it’s all finished?

VC10er wrote:

One thing that really underscores the fact aesthetics really do matter were my 3/4 flights on the newly renovated A319’s that came from CZ. When the entire cabin is new and beautiful, bulkheads, carpets, sidewalls and Lavs...with the new F seat, it makes a powerful new holistic impression for UA.

Well at least you’ve finally seen the light on the sidewalls, lavs, and (I’d guess) the LED lighting as well!

jetero wrote:

VC10er wrote:

One thing that really underscores the fact aesthetics really do matter were my 3/4 flights on the newly renovated A319’s that came from CZ. When the entire cabin is new and beautiful, bulkheads, carpets, sidewalls and Lavs...with the new F seat, it makes a powerful new holistic impression for UA.

Well at least you’ve finally seen the light on the sidewalls, lavs, and (I’d guess) the LED lighting as well!

Does this go way back to something I said about the old UA floral wallpaper?

I’m not sure how worth it it would be to upgrade a plane that only has 1 to 2 years of life left in her to re-do it ALL, but certainly the rest of the 737-8/9’s to get most of the changes. The latest 739 I was on was a brand new beauty in every way EXCEPT for the F seat and bulkheads and carpets. Had she been in full new interior design, I would have married her! What a pretty 737! Albeit with blah blue grey walls etc.

Also, I just went to look at the seat map for the 787-10 from LAX/EWR, it’s interesting that they only use squares for the Polaris seats, and not the Polaris map seats from the 77W? I also could not find her on EWR to LAX, just LAX to EWR. I think it would be great if they added to “enhanced search” the ability to type in ac type! Although with all the swaps nowadays it would be problematic!

VC10er wrote:

jetero wrote:

VC10er wrote:

One thing that really underscores the fact aesthetics really do matter were my 3/4 flights on the newly renovated A319’s that came from CZ. When the entire cabin is new and beautiful, bulkheads, carpets, sidewalls and Lavs...with the new F seat, it makes a powerful new holistic impression for UA.

Well at least you’ve finally seen the light on the sidewalls, lavs, and (I’d guess) the LED lighting as well!

Does this go way back to something I said about the old UA floral wallpaper?

I’m not sure how worth it it would be to upgrade a plane that only has 1 to 2 years of life left in her to re-do it ALL, but certainly the rest of the 737-8/9’s to get most of the changes. The latest 739 I was on was a brand new beauty in every way EXCEPT for the F seat and bulkheads and carpets. Had she been in full new interior design, I would have married her! What a pretty 737! Albeit with blah blue grey walls etc.

Also, I just went to look at the seat map for the 787-10 from LAX/EWR, it’s interesting that they only use squares for the Polaris seats, and not the Polaris map seats from the 77W? I also could not find her on EWR to LAX, just LAX to EWR. I think it would be great if they added to “enhanced search” the ability to type in ac type! Although with all the swaps nowadays it would be problematic!

Could’ve sworn you mentioned something about sidewalls in addition to the floral (are those supposed to be flowers? I always thought they were wheat, which I found odd, but I’m not much of an agricultural guy so I wouldn’t be surprised if I couldn’t tell the difference between wheat and flowers).

The 737s are all ex-CO or newly delivered. Always very late 1990s/early 2000s clean. The seats might have left something to be desired (Y and F), but Y is close to done. Absent seats, I don’t think they need an interior refresh, at least not desperately like the entire PMUA fleet, which was half a*sed.

VC10er wrote:

jetero wrote:

VC10er wrote:

One thing that really underscores the fact aesthetics really do matter were my 3/4 flights on the newly renovated A319’s that came from CZ. When the entire cabin is new and beautiful, bulkheads, carpets, sidewalls and Lavs...with the new F seat, it makes a powerful new holistic impression for UA.

Well at least you’ve finally seen the light on the sidewalls, lavs, and (I’d guess) the LED lighting as well!

Does this go way back to something I said about the old UA floral wallpaper?

I’m not sure how worth it it would be to upgrade a plane that only has 1 to 2 years of life left in her to re-do it ALL, but certainly the rest of the 737-8/9’s to get most of the changes. The latest 739 I was on was a brand new beauty in every way EXCEPT for the F seat and bulkheads and carpets. Had she been in full new interior design, I would have married her! What a pretty 737! Albeit with blah blue grey walls etc.

Also, I just went to look at the seat map for the 787-10 from LAX/EWR, it’s interesting that they only use squares for the Polaris seats, and not the Polaris map seats from the 77W? I also could not find her on EWR to LAX, just LAX to EWR. I think it would be great if they added to “enhanced search” the ability to type in ac type! Although with all the swaps nowadays it would be problematic!

Strange, I found it from EWR-LAX. The flight in question is UA275. (1800-2106)
On LAX-EWR the 781 can be found on UA2418. (0815-1619)

We just keep trucking along. I'll bet a someday when everything is updated will never come. There'll always be new aircraft or some type of mods. But. I'd guess the excitement level will be lower once all aircraft have new seats and Polaris internationally.

764:
N76065 entered HKG 2770/28Sep for the restart of Y crew rest mod. 7 of 16 complete and now 1 in mod.

77W:
N2135U sked to exit SFO 954/1Oct with PE installed. 2 of 17 in service complete.

Okcflyer wrote:

calpsafltskeds wrote:

764:
N76065 entered HKG 2770/28Sep for the restart of Y crew rest mod. 7 of 16 complete and now 1 in mod.

Doesn’t make sense to invest in these Y crew rest mods if the 764 isn’t going to get Polaries and/or was going to be demoted to Domestic/Hawaii performance. While I doubt the current mod is very expensive, it does lend some credence to maintaining TATL or SAM routings medium term.

The 764s will be getting Polaris and PE.

39M
N37507 7th Max C1 28th.. Should have WiFi already installed this time. Induction at HOU or elsewhere ?

jetero wrote:

VC10er wrote:

jetero wrote:

Well at least you’ve finally seen the light on the sidewalls, lavs, and (I’d guess) the LED lighting as well!

Does this go way back to something I said about the old UA floral wallpaper?

I’m not sure how worth it it would be to upgrade a plane that only has 1 to 2 years of life left in her to re-do it ALL, but certainly the rest of the 737-8/9’s to get most of the changes. The latest 739 I was on was a brand new beauty in every way EXCEPT for the F seat and bulkheads and carpets. Had she been in full new interior design, I would have married her! What a pretty 737! Albeit with blah blue grey walls etc.

Also, I just went to look at the seat map for the 787-10 from LAX/EWR, it’s interesting that they only use squares for the Polaris seats, and not the Polaris map seats from the 77W? I also could not find her on EWR to LAX, just LAX to EWR. I think it would be great if they added to “enhanced search” the ability to type in ac type! Although with all the swaps nowadays it would be problematic!

Could’ve sworn you mentioned something about sidewalls in addition to the floral (are those supposed to be flowers? I always thought they were wheat, which I found odd, but I’m not much of an agricultural guy so I wouldn’t be surprised if I couldn’t tell the difference between wheat and flowers).

The 737s are all ex-CO or newly delivered. Always very late 1990s/early 2000s clean. The seats might have left something to be desired (Y and F), but Y is close to done. Absent seats, I don’t think they need an interior refresh, at least not desperately like the entire PMUA fleet, which was half a*sed.

# # #

No, what I believe I said was “lavatories that are in good condition, but have the dated floral pattern, is not as important an investment to fix as the cabins and seats etc” I wouldn’t blame UA if they “left a few floral lavs that are in GOOD CONDITION to save money, as people would probably barely notice the old wallpaper” - now if the lav is in shoddy condition that’s an entirely different story.
(Yes, I believe the motif is of (modern circa 1988) sprigs of flower buds) regardless I don’t find it offensive. Naturally I think they should change them, but I also believe some things come before others.

If I said anything about sidewalls; it probably would have been along the same lines. Why spend millions if they look ok, but ABSOLUTELY do the seats, bulkheads and carpets etc, in the new design!

I would absolutely change burned brown plastic light covers! I am not sure if they need to put the most advanced LED lighting in every old bird, so long as the CONDITION of the lighting is still good.

My new soapbox to stand on and SCREAM about is the United Club bathroom ventilation. Every single one I’ve been in (even some of the beautiful new UA Clubs) smell like an army latrine- I have to mouth breath every time I go in one. Today there are amazing HVAC systems that will suck the foul air straight up and out, and 6 businessmen in the stalls, on their cell phones GROSSES ME OUT! Then I can’t eat my cheese cubes!
United can’t tell people not to use the phone in the toilet stall talking business (I would never!), but as an airline they should understand how to manage airflow.

No idea what the ladies rooms are like!

VC10er wrote:

jetero wrote:

VC10er wrote:

Does this go way back to something I said about the old UA floral wallpaper?

I’m not sure how worth it it would be to upgrade a plane that only has 1 to 2 years of life left in her to re-do it ALL, but certainly the rest of the 737-8/9’s to get most of the changes. The latest 739 I was on was a brand new beauty in every way EXCEPT for the F seat and bulkheads and carpets. Had she been in full new interior design, I would have married her! What a pretty 737! Albeit with blah blue grey walls etc.

Also, I just went to look at the seat map for the 787-10 from LAX/EWR, it’s interesting that they only use squares for the Polaris seats, and not the Polaris map seats from the 77W? I also could not find her on EWR to LAX, just LAX to EWR. I think it would be great if they added to “enhanced search” the ability to type in ac type! Although with all the swaps nowadays it would be problematic!

Could’ve sworn you mentioned something about sidewalls in addition to the floral (are those supposed to be flowers? I always thought they were wheat, which I found odd, but I’m not much of an agricultural guy so I wouldn’t be surprised if I couldn’t tell the difference between wheat and flowers).

The 737s are all ex-CO or newly delivered. Always very late 1990s/early 2000s clean. The seats might have left something to be desired (Y and F), but Y is close to done. Absent seats, I don’t think they need an interior refresh, at least not desperately like the entire PMUA fleet, which was half a*sed.

# # #

No, what I believe I said was “lavatories that are in good condition, but have the dated floral pattern, is not as important an investment to fix as the cabins and seats etc” I wouldn’t blame UA if they “left a few floral lavs that are in GOOD CONDITION to save money, as people would probably barely notice the old wallpaper” - now if the lav is in shoddy condition that’s an entirely different story.
(Yes, I believe the motif is of (modern circa 1988) sprigs of flower buds) regardless I don’t find it offensive. Naturally I think they should change them, but I also believe some things come before others.

If I said anything about sidewalls; it probably would have been along the same lines. Why spend millions if they look ok, but ABSOLUTELY do the seats, bulkheads and carpets etc, in the new design!

I would absolutely change burned brown plastic light covers! I am not sure if they need to put the most advanced LED lighting in every old bird, so long as the CONDITION of the lighting is still good.

My new soapbox to stand on and SCREAM about is the United Club bathroom ventilation. Every single one I’ve been in (even some of the beautiful new UA Clubs) smell like an army latrine- I have to mouth breath every time I go in one. Today there are amazing HVAC systems that will suck the foul air straight up and out, and 6 businessmen in the stalls, on their cell phones GROSSES ME OUT! Then I can’t eat my cheese cubes!
United can’t tell people not to use the phone in the toilet stall talking business (I would never!), but as an airline they should understand how to manage airflow.

No idea what the ladies rooms are like!

Not a United controlled problem, but I have the same reaction as you about the public restrooms at DEN. Must be all the altitude changes and coffee causing some explosive decompressions, but the bathrooms at DEN are flat out raunchy.

jetmatt777 wrote:

Not a United controlled problem, but I have the same reaction as you about the public restrooms at DEN. Must be all the altitude changes and coffee causing some explosive decompressions, but the bathrooms at DEN are flat out raunchy.

I am with you on that one. They are not the worst airport bathrooms in the world (that distinction probably goes to LAX or LGA), but it is a zoo in the DEN men's rooms in the B concourse, especially around peak bank times. The ones in the terminal before security are quite nice though.

VC10er wrote:

jetero wrote:

VC10er wrote:

Does this go way back to something I said about the old UA floral wallpaper?

I’m not sure how worth it it would be to upgrade a plane that only has 1 to 2 years of life left in her to re-do it ALL, but certainly the rest of the 737-8/9’s to get most of the changes. The latest 739 I was on was a brand new beauty in every way EXCEPT for the F seat and bulkheads and carpets. Had she been in full new interior design, I would have married her! What a pretty 737! Albeit with blah blue grey walls etc.

Also, I just went to look at the seat map for the 787-10 from LAX/EWR, it’s interesting that they only use squares for the Polaris seats, and not the Polaris map seats from the 77W? I also could not find her on EWR to LAX, just LAX to EWR. I think it would be great if they added to “enhanced search” the ability to type in ac type! Although with all the swaps nowadays it would be problematic!

Could’ve sworn you mentioned something about sidewalls in addition to the floral (are those supposed to be flowers? I always thought they were wheat, which I found odd, but I’m not much of an agricultural guy so I wouldn’t be surprised if I couldn’t tell the difference between wheat and flowers).

The 737s are all ex-CO or newly delivered. Always very late 1990s/early 2000s clean. The seats might have left something to be desired (Y and F), but Y is close to done. Absent seats, I don’t think they need an interior refresh, at least not desperately like the entire PMUA fleet, which was half a*sed.

# # #

No, what I believe I said was “lavatories that are in good condition, but have the dated floral pattern, is not as important an investment to fix as the cabins and seats etc” I wouldn’t blame UA if they “left a few floral lavs that are in GOOD CONDITION to save money, as people would probably barely notice the old wallpaper” - now if the lav is in shoddy condition that’s an entirely different story.
(Yes, I believe the motif is of (modern circa 1988) sprigs of flower buds) regardless I don’t find it offensive. Naturally I think they should change them, but I also believe some things come before others.

If I said anything about sidewalls; it probably would have been along the same lines. Why spend millions if they look ok, but ABSOLUTELY do the seats, bulkheads and carpets etc, in the new design!

I would absolutely change burned brown plastic light covers! I am not sure if they need to put the most advanced LED lighting in every old bird, so long as the CONDITION of the lighting is still good.

My new soapbox to stand on and SCREAM about is the United Club bathroom ventilation. Every single one I’ve been in (even some of the beautiful new UA Clubs) smell like an army latrine- I have to mouth breath every time I go in one. Today there are amazing HVAC systems that will suck the foul air straight up and out, and 6 businessmen in the stalls, on their cell phones GROSSES ME OUT! Then I can’t eat my cheese cubes!
United can’t tell people not to use the phone in the toilet stall talking business (I would never!), but as an airline they should understand how to manage airflow.

No idea what the ladies rooms are like!

Hmmm! Money must be pretty tight when they can't redo the vinyl covering (or laminate) on the inside walls and doors of the lavs while re-doing the entire rest of the aircraft. Somehow they found the money to do it on the 753s and ex-CZ frames.

Also, I don't understand what you mean when you say they have 1-2 years of life left in them. I haven't heard of any plans to start retiring the 319/320s and my guess is since they just invested in seats, carpets, and bulkhead walls, they'll be in service for at least another 5 if not 10 years.

I'm not a Delta fanboy, but they seem to do the entire job when they refurb their 319/320s. United is just cheap sometimes and it shows!

I honestly think the A319s (the sUA ones, delivered before 2002) and the A320s (except for 4901 and 4902) must be retired soon. These are just as old as the 747s, sUA 752s, and 763s that will be leaving soon. Furthermore, the 737s have seats with better padding, while retaining the same width as the A320 seats (yes, UA has 17-inch wide seats in its A320s).

FlightLevel360 wrote:

I honestly think the A319s (the sUA ones, delivered before 2002) and the A320s (except for 4901 and 4902) must be retired soon. These are just as old as the 747s, sUA 752s, and 763s that will be leaving soon. Furthermore, the 737s have seats with better padding, while retaining the same width as the A320 seats (yes, UA has 17-inch wide seats in its A320s).

I can see your point of view, but that's not what United has indicated they are intending to do and their actions (refurbing them recently) seem to coroborate their words. So, I guess all I'm saying is if you are going to leave them in the fleet for at least another 5 years, do some basic rehab on those lavs!

CONTACREW wrote:

Okcflyer wrote:

calpsafltskeds wrote:

764:
N76065 entered HKG 2770/28Sep for the restart of Y crew rest mod. 7 of 16 complete and now 1 in mod.

Doesn’t make sense to invest in these Y crew rest mods if the 764 isn’t going to get Polaries and/or was going to be demoted to Domestic/Hawaii performance. While I doubt the current mod is very expensive, it does lend some credence to maintaining TATL or SAM routings medium term.

The 764s will be getting Polaris and PE.

764 are getting PE??? whats the layout going to be......2-2-2??? pretty much the old J layout.

gwrudolph wrote:

FlightLevel360 wrote:

I honestly think the A319s (the sUA ones, delivered before 2002) and the A320s (except for 4901 and 4902) must be retired soon. These are just as old as the 747s, sUA 752s, and 763s that will be leaving soon. Furthermore, the 737s have seats with better padding, while retaining the same width as the A320 seats (yes, UA has 17-inch wide seats in its A320s).

I can see your point of view, but that's not what United has indicated they are intending to do and their actions (refurbing them recently) seem to coroborate their words. So, I guess all I'm saying is if you are going to leave them in the fleet for at least another 5 years, do some basic rehab on those lavs!

Not only that, I'm saying that the A320s have the worst economy product (no IFE, no power ports behind exit row, 30 inch pitch, no padding) of any aircraft on the UA fleet, excluding CRJ-200 and ERJ-145. People who fly in first class all the time might disagree because at least the entire Airbus fleet has the new seats.

I am now seeing 787-10 training flights on EWR-SFO for the winter season beginning sometime in January or February. The flights are as follows:
UA637 EWR-SFO 0900 - 1216
UA2006 EWR-SFO 1800 - 2116
UA2319 SFO-EWR 1400-2200

FlightLevel360 wrote:

I honestly think the A319s (the sUA ones, delivered before 2002) and the A320s (except for 4901 and 4902) must be retired soon. These are just as old as the 747s, sUA 752s, and 763s that will be leaving soon. Furthermore, the 737s have seats with better padding, while retaining the same width as the A320 seats (yes, UA has 17-inch wide seats in its A320s).

Except that United didn't have to retire the 747's. They chose to do so, because as so many airlines around the world are choosing to draw down 747 use, due to higher oil price from when they were built. As those airlines all began to retire 747's, parts began to be more scarce and more expensive. Oil may be below its peak, making it profitable to fly the plane, maintenance makes it less so.

The A319/320's maybe as old, but there are thousands of them flying all around the world and hundreds in the US. 757's and 767's are really the planes United needs to worry about replacing, because they will have the 747 problem, as other airlines continue to retire them. Parts will start to get to be unsustainably expensive.

When UA does decide to retire the Airbuses, it will be interesting to see if they follow AA and DL's leads and consider themselves big enough that economies of scale no longer preclude them from having both A320's and 737's, and if price competition and delivery timeframes will encourage to order new A320's. Or, will they continue the CO philosophy of fleet simplicity. Arguably, the operating economic differences between A320's and 737's are close enough and every individual route is unique enough, that both planes probably end up being better and worse throughout the network. Economies of scale for a fleet of 400 planes might be even greater for a fleet of 800, when it comes to planes as similar as 320's and 737's.

xxcr wrote:

CONTACREW wrote:

Okcflyer wrote:

Doesn’t make sense to invest in these Y crew rest mods if the 764 isn’t going to get Polaries and/or was going to be demoted to Domestic/Hawaii performance. While I doubt the current mod is very expensive, it does lend some credence to maintaining TATL or SAM routings medium term.

The 764s will be getting Polaris and PE.

764 are getting PE??? whats the layout going to be......2-2-2??? pretty much the old J layout.

Planned 764 configuration with Polaris and PE will be:

34J/18W/175Y 227 seats total

I thought that might happen - fixed door #2 made UA reduce 5 BF seats to fit Poaris where the sCO BF seats were.
And, I think your 34J/18W/175Y configuration doesn't include the crew seats. I see 4 rows of E+ going and being replaced by 3 6 across PE seats.. So 201-28+18=191 not 193. I think it will be 34J/18W/173Y. With 5 rows of E+ (plus the row behind the lavs, that would give 48" pitch for PE. Roughly add an inch of PE pitch for every additional E+ row converted to Y.

cosyr wrote:

Except that United didn't have to retire the 747's. They chose to do so, because as so many airlines around the world are choosing to draw down 747 use, due to higher oil price from when they were built.

United retired the 747 because they did not want to *invest* further into the fleet, specifically the installation of the fuel interring system, which was required by the end of 2018. Obviously they didn't receive the modification.

intotheair wrote:

jetmatt777 wrote:

Not a United controlled problem, but I have the same reaction as you about the public restrooms at DEN. Must be all the altitude changes and coffee causing some explosive decompressions, but the bathrooms at DEN are flat out raunchy.

I am with you on that one. They are not the worst airport bathrooms in the world (that distinction probably goes to LAX or LGA), but it is a zoo in the DEN men's rooms in the B concourse, especially around peak bank times. The ones in the terminal before security are quite nice though.

Bathrooms as a whole at DEN need a lot of work. The nicer ones by the train exits are currently closed due to the Great Hall renovation. Personally, I would settle for working escalators and working moving walkways. Perhaps I see it more because I live in Denver, but I've never seen an airport with as many escalator problems as DEN.

Anyway, back on topic. Outside of a few aircraft, the Airbus bathrooms are in fine condition in my opinion. Personally, I'd take a larger outdated Airbus bathroom over the modern slimline bathrooms. Given the age of a lot of the Airbus fleet and bigger problem areas (broken F seats on a large number of 738s), I'd rather UA invest the money in areas outside of the bathroom.

Now seeing reports that UA has ordered 9 additional 789s for delivery starting in 2020. Not sure if these are converted or not. Almost certain they will come with Polaris.

GmoneyCO wrote:

intotheair wrote:

jetmatt777 wrote:

Not a United controlled problem, but I have the same reaction as you about the public restrooms at DEN. Must be all the altitude changes and coffee causing some explosive decompressions, but the bathrooms at DEN are flat out raunchy.

I am with you on that one. They are not the worst airport bathrooms in the world (that distinction probably goes to LAX or LGA), but it is a zoo in the DEN men's rooms in the B concourse, especially around peak bank times. The ones in the terminal before security are quite nice though.

Bathrooms as a whole at DEN need a lot of work. The nicer ones by the train exits are currently closed due to the Great Hall renovation. Personally, I would settle for working escalators and working moving walkways. Perhaps I see it more because I live in Denver, but I've never seen an airport with as many escalator problems as DEN.

Anyway, back on topic. Outside of a few aircraft, the Airbus bathrooms are in fine condition in my opinion. Personally, I'd take a larger outdated Airbus bathroom over the modern slimline bathrooms. Given the age of a lot of the Airbus fleet and bigger problem areas (broken F seats on a large number of 738s), I'd rather UA invest the money in areas outside of the bathroom.

Yes! The escalators and travelators are always broken! And for some reason, a lot of the bathroom stalls don’t latch. Either because the gap is so large between the door and the frame or the lock is broken.

Glad to see a top up 787 order! Surprising news this Monday, I expected them to wait until the conference call later this month.

FlightLevel360 wrote:

Now seeing reports that UA has ordered 9 additional 789s for delivery starting in 2020. Not sure if these are converted or not. Almost certain they will come with Polaris.

I've been reading that these are to begin to replace older planes, but no mention of what. Does anyone have an idea? Is this to replace 77A's or more older 763's?

cosyr wrote:

FlightLevel360 wrote:

Now seeing reports that UA has ordered 9 additional 789s for delivery starting in 2020. Not sure if these are converted or not. Almost certain they will come with Polaris.

I've been reading that these are to begin to replace older planes, but no mention of what. Does anyone have an idea? Is this to replace 77A's or more older 763's?

I would think they'd replace older 763s or 772s.

cosyr wrote:

I've been reading that these are to begin to replace older planes, but no mention of what. Does anyone have an idea? Is this to replace 77A's or more older 763's?

Personally I don't see the 789's replacing the 77A's simply because all those aircraft are how high density if this order were for the 78J I would agree the 789 even in a high density configuration I'm not sure the 789 can get close to the 364 seats current on the 77A's. I think this order could be a replacement for the 763's but even then I have questions because 789 represents a pretty large jump in capacity over the the 763. AA order more 788's to replace some of their 763's. I'm just wonder if this is about replacing the 763 why go for the 789 instead of the 788 because on some TATL routes during the January, February, March and April the 789 might represent to much capacity.

Personally I'm reluctantly starting to believe the rumor mill here at Willis Tower and I'm wonder if UA will indeed take delivery of the A359. If we continue to see these incremental order trickle out I don't know I might start to believe the rumor that the 789, 78J together can/might replace UA's entire 777 fleet. I'm not there yet, but I'm not 100% sure what these additional 13 newly order 789's will replace. To go from a 763 to a 789 if these additional orders are in fact replacements for that fleet all I can say is wow that's quite a leap in capacity.

Also quick side note today October 1st finally brings an end to sUA metal and sCO metal because the FA's are FINALLY operating as one and can fly any aircraft in our fleet. This should greatly improve our reliability, and our operations especially during weather events. No longer will for example ORD run out of sCO flight attendants of IAH run out of sUA flight attendants. Finally the merger is complete.

codc10 wrote:

2020 delivery date does not suggest direct 777 replacements, as I've heard 2023-2025 is the timeframe for that process to begin.

7 763ERs are going to leave the fleet in 2019/2020, offset by the 4 789s already on order (incidentally 3x newer ex-HA 763ER have joined the fleet), so this could meet that need, and provide a flexible solution to retire 777s sooner if the economy loses steam or oil spikes.

I thought fewer than 7 were not getting retrofitted, or did this change recently?

jayunited wrote:

cosyr wrote:

I've been reading that these are to begin to replace older planes, but no mention of what. Does anyone have an idea? Is this to replace 77A's or more older 763's?

Personally I don't see the 789's replacing the 77A's simply because all those aircraft are how high density if this order were for the 78J I would agree the 789 even in a high density configuration I'm not sure the 789 can get close to the 364 seats current on the 77A's. I think this order could be a replacement for the 763's but even then I have questions because 789 represents a pretty large jump in capacity over the the 763. AA order more 788's to replace some of their 763's. I'm just wonder if this is about replacing the 763 why go for the 789 instead of the 788 because on some TATL routes during the January, February, March and April the 789 might represent to much capacity.

Personally I'm reluctantly starting to believe the rumor mill here at Willis Tower and I'm wonder if UA will indeed take delivery of the A359. If we continue to see these incremental order trickle out I don't know I might start to believe the rumor that the 789, 78J together can/might replace UA's entire 777 fleet. I'm not there yet, but I'm not 100% sure what these additional 13 newly order 789's will replace. To go from a 763 to a 789 if these additional orders are in fact replacements for that fleet all I can say is wow that's quite a leap in capacity.

Same argument as why most opt for the 320 over the 319. CASM is lower on the 789 as there’s more seats to spread the costs for marginally higher operating costs.

iahcsr wrote:

39M
N37507 7th Max C1 28th.. Should have WiFi already installed this time. Induction at HOU or elsewhere ?

Elsewhere it is... N37507 delivery UA2707 30Sep BFISEA.

jayunited wrote:

Also quick side note today October 1st finally brings an end to sUA metal and sCO metal because the FA's are FINALLY operating as one and can fly any aircraft in our fleet. This should greatly improve our reliability, and our operations especially during weather events. No longer will for example ORD run out of sCO flight attendants of IAH run out of sUA flight attendants. Finally the merger is complete.

Great news.....at last!! Onwards and upwards!

While the 763s may have fewer cycles, they are 2 to 8 years older than all the 772A aircraft.
I believe the 9 new 789s give UA options depending on the economy and fuel prices.

If the economy is going gang busters, maybe the 763s stay around and are moved to domestic transcons or they could stay on less premium competitive, seasonal or shorter TATL routes. Flying just 2 cycles per day and with spares, could effectively provide good service for years.

If the economy tanks, or fuel spikes, then the 772As could get grounded as part of a pullback that would increase fuel efficiency. One would think if the 772As were dumped, the 787-10 with higher density would replace 772A units during a slight pullback and then sub new 789s for 787-10s on TATL routes. The 787-10 has more range than the 772A, meaning it could fly East Coast Hawaii and do GUM without any weight restrictions.

77W:
N2135U exit delayed with PE product.

On the other hand, 9 of the 15 sUA 752 are 1989-1993 build. Maybe the seven 763s with lie flats would be a great transcon aircraft and allow those 9 to be retired. Three RT per day EWR-LAX and Four RT EWR-SFO might make sense. Or HNL-EWR/IAD service.
The question then would be if only six 1997-1999 build sUA 752s with PW engines would make sense to retain as a small fleet.

calpsafltskeds wrote:

On the other hand, 9 of the 15 sUA 752 are 1989-1993 build. Maybe the seven 763s with lie flats would be a great transcon aircraft and allow those 9 to be retired. Three RT per day EWR-LAX and Four RT EWR-SFO might make sense. Or HNL-EWR/IAD service.
The question then would be if only six 1997-1999 build sUA 752s with PW engines would make sense to retain as a small fleet.

You might be on to something here, after the reading the article on Flying Together announcing the additional orders UA also states they want to offer more premium seats and be the undisputed number 1 carrier for cross country travel. Now I know from an internal memo UA hopes to have 9 78J's by spring 2019 and 6 of the 78J's will fly as yet to be announced EWR-Europe routes, the remaining 3 for now will fly EWR-SFO/LAX. If we fast forward to 2020 I think you may have a point especially if UA keeps the 7 763's and uses them to replace some of the PW 757's. UA has already announced some of the 737-10Max's will have lie flat seats but after some thinking I don't see UA running 737-10Max's on EWR-SFO/LAX. I can see those aircraft deployed on other transcon routes but not EWR-SFO/LAX. This is why I think you may be on to something especially after reading the article on Flying Together. I think come 2021-2022 the HD 77A's might be off the EWR-SFO/LAX (I'm not sure they will be retired) but if UA really wants to step up their game in the transcon market and become a market leader as the article suggests UA has to either remove the HD 77A's from these routes or reconfigure a handful of the 77A's because the current layout of the HD 77A's doesn't make me think of premium service more cattle car service. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out because UA executives while not giving away to many details are giving us just enough information to let us know where they want/hope to take UA's transcon service. We will have to just wait and see if we actually get there, personally I hope we do come up with a great transcon product, but we are still a few years away from seeing what that service will entail.

I agree that I don't think the 77A on the transcons is ideal. From what I remember, they only started putting that plane on the former p.s. routes when they made BOS-SFO all lie flats and they didn't have enough 752s to cover all the routes.

intotheair wrote:

I agree that I don't think the 77A on the transcons is ideal. From what I remember, they only started putting that plane on the former p.s. routes when they made BOS-SFO all lie flats and they didn't have enough 752s to cover all the routes.

I recall this being the case also. With the MOM no where in sight, UA is somewhat forced to plan for the eventual retirement of the PS unit. As a short term, I bet we'd see the PMCO 757's on the PS routes. Of course, UA has surprised us before (HD 763's) and there might be something cooking with a subset a/c that will fill in this void: 763's as mentioned, order 789's to shuffle 764's to PS?

The only surprise with this order is that it's for 789's not 788's to replace the 763's and not the rumored 78J 10-11 unit top off order. With that in mind, UA knows the economics of the 789 very well and it might be put into service in a different role than we imagine.

Finally, with 1 x 77W, 13 more 789's + 14 78J's on order, UA has to be retiring additional w/b aircraft in the next few years. With the 772A's being UA's worst longhaul a/c, I'm sure those + the PMUA 757 PS units are somehow a part of this plan.

One: I personally think they should keep the p.s. sub-brand because it has really stuck, especially with UA FFs. It’s not (as sub-brand names go) a bad name one (a play on “Post Script” & “Premium Service”) - so long as p.s. is due to be upgraded with fresh interiors and seats- they should stick with it, vs confusing the hell out of us!
What I think would/could really help United is to have BY FAR the most lie flats above the USA as possible. Between distant hubs and flights over 3/4 hours. It’s a HUGE plus over a regular domestic F offered by any airline, and they will find the people who will pay for that.
I literally just got off a 752 from EWR to Denver and the bed seat let me sleep for 3 solid hours. (Although when flat, I was looking up disgusting brown water stains around the air vents) otherwise it was a perfect 10 flight, on time, great crew etc.
So I cannot help but wonder if United would go so far as to have the true Polaris seat, PE and E+ on transcontinental flights, be it a 767 or 78J.
The Chicago Business Journal had a good interview with Oscar who firmly admits the amount of work to be done in CUSTOMER SERVICE- it was inspiring to read that he knows the issues and has a vision and plan to make a 180 turn in customer service and satisfaction.
In fact I’ve noticed lately that I am thanked for my loyalty every time I interact with someone- they must get an electric shock from HQ if they don’t (just kidding!)
Last: I’m leaving DEN for MIA on Friday and was shocked that there is not even ONE nonstop! Couldn’t they at least open that with an E-175 or A319, rather than cede all that business to AA or others?

fun2fly wrote:

intotheair wrote:

I agree that I don't think the 77A on the transcons is ideal. From what I remember, they only started putting that plane on the former p.s. routes when they made BOS-SFO all lie flats and they didn't have enough 752s to cover all the routes.

I recall this being the case also. With the MOM no where in sight, UA is somewhat forced to plan for the eventual retirement of the PS unit. As a short term, I bet we'd see the PMCO 757's on the PS routes. Of course, UA has surprised us before (HD 763's) and there might be something cooking with a subset a/c that will fill in this void: 763's as mentioned, order 789's to shuffle 764's to PS?

The only surprise with this order is that it's for 789's not 788's to replace the 763's and not the rumored 78J 10-11 unit top off order. With that in mind, UA knows the economics of the 789 very well and it might be put into service in a different role than we imagine.

Finally, with 1 x 77W, 13 more 789's + 14 78J's on order, UA has to be retiring additional w/b aircraft in the next few years. With the 772A's being UA's worst longhaul a/c, I'm sure those + the PMUA 757 PS units are somehow a part of this plan.

The problem is UA does not have a direct replacement for the 77A for the missions they are intended to fly when they were reconfigured. They were not intended to operate on long haul international, but rather as hub-hub and hub-leisure market, people movers. The 767 isn't large enough to fit 300+ seats and I doubt UA would create a sub-fleet of high density 78Js. From what I've read, UA might retire the 77As and reconfigure 77Es for HD domestic use.

77H

When did Boeing stop making the 772, or can they still be ordered?

I’m sure United does (as any airline) have projected numbers in terms of people flying, by Class, year over year - barring unforeseen large economic downturns etc.

United is either being seems to have a very robust and aggressive approach to their future (or my opinion is skewed because I happen to read more about them due to the fact the internet, target marketing or government big brother knows to send them to me- more so than any other other airlines!) BUT it seems like the only “Boeing” option to replace their HD 772s, would be very expensive 78J in HD or acquire used but not so used-up 772s. Plus, those 19 HD’s could use a lie flat that’s a cut above the current old UA seat. (Possibly the newer Diamond seats due to come of 788/789s)

I AM REALLY, REALLY CURIOUS: does Delta or AA have a similar HD subfleet like UA’s?

772 Polaris Unit looks to return to service in HKG 10/6 N791UA

VC10er wrote:

When did Boeing stop making the 772, or can they still be ordered?

I’m sure United does (as any airline) have projected numbers in terms of people flying, by Class, year over year - barring unforeseen large economic downturns etc.

United is either being seems to have a very robust and aggressive approach to their future (or my opinion is skewed because I happen to read more about them due to the fact the internet, target marketing or government big brother knows to send them to me- more so than any other other airlines!) BUT it seems like the only “Boeing” option to replace their HD 772s, would be very expensive 78J in HD or acquire used but not so used-up 772s. Plus, those 19 HD’s could use a lie flat that’s a cut above the current old UA seat. (Possibly the newer Diamond seats due to come of 788/789s)

I AM REALLY, REALLY CURIOUS: does Delta or AA have a similar HD subfleet like UA’s?

If you're referring to the original -200 from '94, I believe it was 2007. Can't remember the airline though.

1989worstyear wrote:

VC10er wrote:

When did Boeing stop making the 772, or can they still be ordered?

I’m sure United does (as any airline) have projected numbers in terms of people flying, by Class, year over year - barring unforeseen large economic downturns etc.

United is either being seems to have a very robust and aggressive approach to their future (or my opinion is skewed because I happen to read more about them due to the fact the internet, target marketing or government big brother knows to send them to me- more so than any other other airlines!) BUT it seems like the only “Boeing” option to replace their HD 772s, would be very expensive 78J in HD or acquire used but not so used-up 772s. Plus, those 19 HD’s could use a lie flat that’s a cut above the current old UA seat. (Possibly the newer Diamond seats due to come of 788/789s)

I AM REALLY, REALLY CURIOUS: does Delta or AA have a similar HD subfleet like UA’s?

If you're referring to the original -200 from '94, I believe it was 2007. Can't remember the airline though.

Fairly certain the last 772"A" was delivered to JL in August of 2007.