Continued from the 2017 discussion:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1351509

Have a happy 2018!

Just so the update provided by calpsafltskeds earlier today is carried over into the 2018 thread...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Updated 1/1/18

IN PROCESS INTERIOR/EXTERIOR MODIFICATIONS 

POLARIS BF SEATS: 16/143 - Not sure all fleets will get Polaris
763 - 3/35 644/648-649
764 - 0/16
772 - 0/55 (excludes 19 772A Domnestic)
77W - 14/14 COMPLETED (4 more deliveries in 3Q18)
788 - 0/12
789 - 0/21 (4 new deliveries in 2018)

763 2 Class mod for 21 aircraft: (Other 14: 664-677 completed in 2012/13) - All have Winglets
B763 (10/21=47.6%) 644/648-649(Polaris) 652-653,657-658,661-663 (sCO Lie Flats) Complete - In HKG mod: 646,655-656
763 Winglets on 3 class aircraft: 641,654,660

752: Scimitar Winglets (no bottom strake) (39/41=80.5%) Remaining: 3130/3141
 
753 110V Power F/E+: 11/12 TZ build: without 3868 (to recieve with upcoming slimline mod)
753 slimline mod (24F/54E+/156Y=234) 0/21, 3860 in mod at RFD

737NG New Slimline Y seats: (308/329 = 93.6%) [73Gs get new F seats as well]
B/E Aerospace Pinnacle for (73G 12F/36E+/78Y) (738 16F/54E+/96Y=166, 16F/48E+/102Y=166 or 16F/42E+/108Y=166)(739 20F/42E+/117Y=179 or 20F/39E+/120Y=179)
73G: (25/40) COMPLETE 3701-3704,3706-3711,3713-3716,3718,3720,3730-3732,3734-3735,3751-3754
738: (135/141) REMAINING 3520-3521,3525-3528 (3201-3292,3501-2527: 16F/54E+/96Y), (3528-3542: 16F/48E+/102Y), (3293-3299: 16F/42E+/108Y GUM)
739A: (12/12) ALL COMPLETE (20F/42E+/117Y)
739E: (136/136) ALL COMPLETE (3413-3442,3811-3899: 20/42E+/117Y) (3443-3810: 20F/39E+/120Y) 

737NG Split Scimitar Wingets (328/329 = 99.7%) 73G/738/739ER Completed
739A: (11/12): Without 3405

319/320 fleet additions:
8 Ex CZ 319 aircraft in service, 4 more in LCQ Induction (14 more potential)
2 Ex CZ 320 aircraft in LCQ Induction (more??)

COMPLETED MODIFICATION PROGRAMS

WiFi Installation: Mainline, 731 of 731 complete, 100% (excludes 11 GUM 73NGs)
UAX COMPLETED: C700 (66/66) E170- (38/38) E175-(147/147):  gogo

A319/A320 New F Seats/In Seat Power (ISP) F/E+ (162/162 = 100%) Completed

PDE additions on Intl AVOD aircraft Complete
752/763/764/772ER Shown Completed on United.com

PAINT United - Mainline COMPLETED 
Special Paint: 475 UA Retro, 3435 CO Retro, 3432 eco-skies, 3848 March of Dimes
Star Paint: 3720, 3210/3516, 653, 3055, 218/794/3017/3021/3022

PAINT United Express - Express All COMPLETED
Up to 7 other Skywest House Paint CRJ-200 units may float between AA/AS/DL/UA

sCO Economy Plus mainline conversion - COMPLETED 

772A New Domestic Configuration for 19  aircraft - 28BF Lie Flat/336Y (10 across Y) 

B722A In-Seat Power Completed 9 former Hawaiian units

New BusinessFirst Lie Flat Seats for sCO International fleet Complete

DirecTV (216* sCO aircraft) [*Not Counting GUM, Ex-GUM, Ex-TZ, Ex-Copa, 2016 and later deliveries]

A319/A320 new interior bin doors Complete  

A319/A320 New Slimline Y Recaro 3520 seats Complete 

738/73G Guam reassignment Complete: 

752 New ps Configuration Completed on 15 sUA units

753 ETOPS Completed on 21 units

Fleets Removed from UA Fleet
B1900D Silver Gulfstream, SAAB 340, EMB120, Q300 and Q400, 744 sUA 752 domestic, 762, 735

The United Polaris microsite says 767-300 conversions will happen "throughout 2018" so at the very latest Dec 31, 2018. I haven't seen a more detailed public schedule.

Thank you - took a look at the Polaris site you mentioned. Not sure how high my confidence level is that they will get all the 763s done by the end of 2018 if it's taken them over 6 months to do the first 3. Fingers crossed.

glbltrvlr wrote:

The United Polaris microsite says 767-300 conversions will happen "throughout 2018" so at the very latest Dec 31, 2018. I haven't seen a more detailed public schedule.

Thank you - took a look at the Polaris site you mentioned. Not sure how high my confidence level is that they will get all the 763s done by the end of 2018 if it's taken them over 6 months to do the first 3. Fingers crossed.

I assume the "completed" refers only to the 14, not all 35? Is there an intention to do the other 21 after the 772's are finished?

glbltrvlr wrote:

Thank you - took a look at the Polaris site you mentioned. Not sure how high my confidence level is that they will get all the 763s done by the end of 2018 if it's taken them over 6 months to do the first 3. Fingers crossed.

With all of the regulatory hurdles and unexpected surprises, the first few aircraft coming out with a mod that big take that long. Once they iron out the issues they roll out fairly quickly.

I am really, really hoping for ALL 767-300 & 400 ultimately get Polaris. There are hubs like EWR that are very 767 focused. The inconsistency if just 14 have Polaris will feel like a half baked measure. I totally get the expense involved and if it was to take another 2.5 years to do both the 767 and 772 fleets- ok.
Of course IF United were to buy new build 767s, I would assume they would replace some of the oldest birds and come delivered with Polaris.
If 14+ 767s were to be used for ps, then I think the old seat would be fine. But not to Europe and Deep South America— IMVVVHO!

Summary of 2017 and Expected 2018 changes:

In 2017:
Entire fleet of 744s retired (last 20 exited in 2017)
12x 77Ws delivered (14 total - all with Polaris seats)
3x 789s delivered (brings total to 21)
752 scimitar program almost completed
73G slimline and new F cabin well underway
738 slimline and scimitar program almost complete
739 slimline program completed (1 unit still without scimitars)
4x new 738s delivered
2x used A320s delivered
6x used A319s delivered

34 50-seaters were removed from service (5 CR2s, 24 ER4s, 5 Q300s)
40 50-seaters were added to UAX service (all CR2s)
9 37-seaters were removed from service (2 E35s and 7 Q200s)
Entire fleet of Q300s were removed from service
Air Wisconsin began UAX service with fleet of CR2s
35 76-seat E175s were delivered.
14 CR7s removed from service


Jan 2018 United Fleet & 2018 Outlook:

A319 fleet: 67 total - all have new F seats, anticipate more used frames from China Southern in 2018

A320 fleet: 99 total - all have new F seats, no changes expected although more used frames are possible

73G fleet: 40 total (4 in Guam service) - all have scimitars, slimline program underway and new First seats being installed, should be finished in 2018

738 fleet: 141 total (7 in Guam service) - all have scimitars, only 6 more until slimline mod program is complete

739 fleet: 148 total - one without scimitars, all have slimlines, no other changes anticipated

73M fleet: first six 7M9 aircraft to enter fleet in 2018.

752 fleet: 56 total - scimitars on 39 of 41 16J frames, other 2 in 2018. 15 28J units will not get scimitars

753 fleet: 21 total - to get slimlines and new F seats in 2018, first frame in mod now

763 fleet: 35 total - 21 2-class will stay as is, 3 have Polaris, remaining 11 3-class frames to get Polaris in 2018

764 fleet: 16 total - crew rest modification in 2018, no other changes anticipated

772 fleet: 19 total - no changes anticipated

77E fleet: 55 total - 33x 3-class units to begin Polaris modification in 2018, remaining 22 2-class units to follow with Polaris modification

77W fleet: 14 total - all have Polaris seats, 4 more deliveries in 2018

788 fleet: 12 total - no changes anticipated

789 fleet: 21 total - 4 more deliveries in 2018, no other changes anticipated

78J fleet: first deliveries in late 2018 with Polaris seats installed (possibly up to 4 in service by year end)

CRJ-200 fleet: 104 Total (31 Air Wisconsin, 73 Skywest) plus 7 floaters - Air Wisconsin will add to their fleet in 2018, Skywest anticipate some reduction in frames

CRJ-700 fleet: 65 total (20 Skywest, 20 Mesa, 25 GoJet) - anticipate a few more will leave the fleet this year

E170 fleet: 38 total + 1 floater (all Republic) - no changes anticipated

E175 fleet: 152 total (65 Skywest, 59 Mesa, 28 Republic) - last frame delivered and will enter service with Mesa in early 2018, this completes scope limit of 153

ERJ-145 fleet: 170 total (109 ExpressJet, 38 TransStates, 23 CommutAir) - plans in flux, CommutAir and/or ExpressJet may receive more in 2018, some ExpressJet frames scheduled to come off contract

ERJ-135 fleet: 3 total (all ExpressJet) - likely elimination of type in 2018

Q200 fleet: 9 total (all Commutair) - elimination of type in early 2018

ATR42 fleet: 3 total (all Cape Air) - no changes anticipated

** note some of these fleet numbers differ from the UA fleet plan because I have included all frames where UA does not include pro-rate contract planes

With the 77E fleet at 55 total frames to be Polarisized, plus the handful of 767, and 787-10, I cannot help but wonder how many Polaris seats in total that is..and the estimated costs associated with all of these Polaris refits. Reading here that a Polaris seat can cost 6 figures (true?) and the time and work to install and return to service...what is this investment like?
Also, it’s been said all the 787s will ultimately get Polaris but not for years.
Polaris could hold a record for “cost of a refitting”

Last and (THANK YOU UAinAUS!) when you say “no other changes anticipated” does that mean “just don’t know yet” or “NOT going to happen”?...eg; could UA change their minds about the 767-400?

UAinAUS wrote:

77E fleet: 55 total - 33x 3-class units to begin Polaris modification in 2018, remaining 22 2-class units to follow with Polaris modification

Question: Does anyone know if they will change the Y cabin to 10 abreast at the same time they do the Polaris modifications or is that a separate later modification?

gwrudolph wrote:

UAinAUS wrote:

77E fleet: 55 total - 33x 3-class units to begin Polaris modification in 2018, remaining 22 2-class units to follow with Polaris modification

Question: Does anyone know if they will change the Y cabin to 10 abreast at the same time they do the Polaris modifications or is that a separate later modification?

I personally don’t know, but every post on this particular topic points to YES, they will go to 10 abreast. Maybe E+ will stay 9???

From https://thepointsguy.com/2017/10/united ... 77-layout/ :

United’s Retrofitted 777s Will Get 50 Polaris Seats, 3-4-3 in Coach

The carrier recently relaunched its first updated 767, and now it’ll soon begin retrofitting its older 777s, installing the new 1-2-1 Polaris business-class seats and adding an extra seat in each row in economy, just as United’s done with its domestic configuration.

763 (2-class):
N667UA exited SAT maintenance 2790/1Jan
N665UA entered SAT for mx 2791/1Jan

VC10er wrote:

Last and (THANK YOU UAinAUS!) when you say “no other changes anticipated” does that mean “just don’t know yet” or “NOT going to happen”?...eg; could UA change their minds about the 767-400?

Very welcome! And when I say ‘No changes anticiapted’ I’m referring only to 2018. What happens past then is still all up to the soothsayers and fairies.

50 Polaris seats seems like a high number? Could some of those be swapped out for the inevitable premium economy class seats?

kordcj wrote:

50 Polaris seats seems like a high number? Could some of those be swapped out for the inevitable premium economy class seats?

Seems more likely they would cannibalize some E+ or E seats for PE.

SFOtoORD wrote:

kordcj wrote:

50 Polaris seats seems like a high number? Could some of those be swapped out for the inevitable premium economy class seats?

Seems more likely they would cannibalize some E+ or E seats for PE.

50 isn't that much either. There's 50J in the current 2-cabin and 48 F/J in the 3-cabin.

kordcj wrote:

50 Polaris seats seems like a high number? Could some of those be swapped out for the inevitable premium economy class seats?

I would think it would be strange if there were fewer J seats on 77E's than on 789's. 60 on the 77W, 50 on a 77E, 48 on the 789, 36 on a 788, 35 on 764, and 30 on the 763. 50 seems just about right for the fleet flexibility. I would rather see 3 rows of Y+ swapped out for Prem Y, that would leave lots of options for different seat choices and price points.

VC10er wrote:

With the 77E fleet at 55 total frames to be Polarisized, plus the handful of 767, and 787-10, I cannot help but wonder how many Polaris seats in total that is..and the estimated costs associated with all of these Polaris refits. Reading here that a Polaris seat can cost 6 figures (true?) and the time and work to install and return to service...what is this investment like?
Also, it’s been said all the 787s will ultimately get Polaris but not for years.
Polaris could hold a record for “cost of a refitting”

Estimates are about 12 million per 777

SFOtoORD wrote:

kordcj wrote:

50 Polaris seats seems like a high number? Could some of those be swapped out for the inevitable premium economy class seats?

Seems more likely they would cannibalize some E+ or E seats for PE.

After it’s all said and done with Polaris, PE, E+, and E- the seat count goes does by around 6 if memory serves me right. E+ gets chopped but that’s to be expected with the PE addition

738:
N76526 entered LCQ 2796/2Jan for slimlines
5 left to go plus 3526 in mod.

763 (3-class):
N642UA entered SFO 2770/2Jan

738: Another 738 slimline mod
N79521 entered RFD 2797/2Jan for slimlines
4 left to go plus 3521 & 3526 in mod.

772:
N209UA entered HKG 2795/2Jan

752 scimitars:
N19130 - photos confirm scimitar winglets installed
N19141 - cannot confirm - last photo on internet looks like pre-Summer 2017.

Is UA expected to unveil a newly designed Premium Economy seat soon?

I could so easily envision my old company putting their executives in PE on 9+ hour flights and treating Polaris like it was First Class!

B737900ER wrote:

SFOtoORD wrote:

kordcj wrote:

50 Polaris seats seems like a high number? Could some of those be swapped out for the inevitable premium economy class seats?

Seems more likely they would cannibalize some E+ or E seats for PE.

After it’s all said and done with Polaris, PE, E+, and E- the seat count goes does by around 6 if memory serves me right. E+ gets chopped but that’s to be expected with the PE addition

This sounds like a seat map exists and that PE is definitely coming. Have you seen a seat map with PE? I wonder if PE will be announced at the investor day on January 23 in New York.

[*]

VC10er wrote:

Is UA expected to unveil a newly designed Premium Economy seat soon?

I could so easily envision my old company putting their executives in PE on 9+ hour flights and treating Polaris like it was First Class!

Yes. It’s in the works. It will come at the expensive of e+ which will be reduced.

flyguy84 wrote:

VC10er wrote:

Is UA expected to unveil a newly designed Premium Economy seat soon?

Yes. It’s in the works. It will come at the expensive of e+ which will be reduced.

I'm guessing you have some insider information on this tidbit as I don't think the company has put out any official information. Since UA is/would be the last of the US3 to unveil PE, they have the advantage of taking the best parts of the other existing PE products out there and (potentially) creating a better product.

As a *Gold, I would welcome the PE product for long-haul versus only an E+ option. The price difference from Y to J is usually a step too far but something in between would probably get a lot of people to pay for (instead of playing upgrade roulette) for a guaranteed nicer seating experience. If I could get a bit more shoulder and leg room UA could serve me an MRE and I'd be more than happy.

According to Ontario, California airport, United Airlines will be serving the Ontario, California - San Francisco market, not United Express.

dc10lover wrote:

According to Ontario, California airport, United Airlines will be serving the Ontario, California - San Francisco market, not United Express.

That would be great. With WN in almost every NorCal-SoCal market RJs are so much less competitive. Plus UA already has good frequency on SFO-ONT so they could trade a couple frequencies for capacity.

I would hope that UA takes advantage of creating something really nice for PE. But I would fear just being on par with Delta will be "good enough"...although for once it would be great if UA didn't have to rip it all out for an updated version 5 years from now.

What could they do to leapfrog Delta and AA or others? (I think reintroduce the legacy United Intl Business Class recliner, with the same level of recline, just use matching leather) I slept like a baby in that seat. One evening I went to Rio from JFK and the seat suddenly went WAY further back than previously. I asked the FA if I was imagining it...she said "yes, they adjusted them to have much more recline...isnt it amazing? Everyone is loving it" - it was! I used to put my backpack on the footrest and it was almost a lie flat seat. How times change, I used to think that 7 movies on the small screen was fantastic. They also had a powered lumbar support with a light massage feature.

It would also make sense that when they refit the 772's and ultimately 787 8/9 and new deliveries (787-10 & A350's) would get them vs taking the former out of service AGAIN for a refit.

dc10lover wrote:

According to Ontario, California airport, United Airlines will be serving the Ontario, California - San Francisco market, not United Express.

If only they would restart IAHONT.... not fond of connection via DEN/SFO.

Following up on a few things left over from 2017:

1) There was a long discussion that UA would order 4 more 77W's going to 22 total in the fleet. Is that dead? The end of the production cycle gap is getting closer to being closed.
2) There was an even longer discussion that UA would order new 763's. Is that dead?

If nothing else, we'll find out in a few weeks if anything has been done on either front when UA reports their SEC filings.

fun2fly wrote:

2) There was an even longer discussion that UA would order new 763's. Is that dead?

UA is indeed interested in adding a few 763s to its fleet but those will come in the form of HA's 763s which are due for retirement this year. They are young frames, in good shape and satisfy UA's requirements.

VC10er wrote:

I would hope that UA takes advantage of creating something really nice for PE. But I would fear just being on par with Delta will be "good enough"...although for once it would be great if UA didn't have to rip it all out for an updated version 5 years from now.

What could they do to leapfrog Delta and AA or others? (I think reintroduce the legacy United Intl Business Class recliner, with the same level of recline, just use matching leather) I slept like a baby in that seat. One evening I went to Rio from JFK and the seat suddenly went WAY further back than previously. I asked the FA if I was imagining it...she said "yes, they adjusted them to have much more recline...isnt it amazing? Everyone is loving it" - it was! I used to put my backpack on the footrest and it was almost a lie flat seat. How times change, I used to think that 7 movies on the small screen was fantastic. They also had a powered lumbar support with a light massage feature.

It would also make sense that when they refit the 772's and ultimately 787 8/9 and new deliveries (787-10 & A350's) would get them vs taking the former out of service AGAIN for a refit.

I really hope they don't. This is the slippery slope that Business Class started in the 70's to the point where it eventually replaced First Class. We have lie flat beds in J. I want something that's just a step above Y that is affordable. Some of us have to pay for this ourselves, no expense accounts.

hkcanadaexpat wrote:

fun2fly wrote:

2) There was an even longer discussion that UA would order new 763's. Is that dead?

UA is indeed interested in adding a few 763s to its fleet but those will come in the form of HA's 763s which are due for retirement this year. They are young frames, in good shape and satisfy UA's requirements.

I believe they were looking at the three youngest frames in HA’s fleet.

wn676 wrote:

hkcanadaexpat wrote:

fun2fly wrote:

2) There was an even longer discussion that UA would order new 763's. Is that dead?

UA is indeed interested in adding a few 763s to its fleet but those will come in the form of HA's 763s which are due for retirement this year. They are young frames, in good shape and satisfy UA's requirements.

I believe they were looking at the three youngest frames in HA’s fleet.

WHat are the number of the frames available? This frames would be enough?

SJPBR wrote:

wn676 wrote:

hkcanadaexpat wrote:

UA is indeed interested in adding a few 763s to its fleet but those will come in the form of HA's 763s which are due for retirement this year. They are young frames, in good shape and satisfy UA's requirements.

I believe they were looking at the three youngest frames in HA’s fleet.

WHat are the number of the frames available? This frames would be enough?

And what would they be used for specifically? Replace older frames, replace international deployed 752s, or incremental? As much as I'd love to have PS operated with 763s, just can't see that happening.

I can't wait for true PE to get here. I hope the delay means something special is coming. Such as a limited domestic product too. Perhaps transons and such

tpaewr wrote:

I can't wait for true PE to get here. I hope the delay means something special is coming. Such as a limited domestic product too. Perhaps transons and such

I do not believe United has the vision, desire or ability to actually execute something 'special'. I am just hopeful for something industry-standard.

SJPBR wrote:

WHat are the number of the frames available? This frames would be enough?

HA has six "young" 763s that are being retired this year. N580HA, N581HA, N582HA, N588HA, N590HA & N592HA. All between LN 850-898 which are built between 09/01 and 02/03. These frames are in good shape and generally low cycle as they would do a maximum 2 per day as they fly between Hawaii and West Coast US/PPG/CTS.

I doubt UA would want the earlier three units (N580/581/582HA) as they have different door configurations compared to UA's 35 763s and HA units N588/590/592HA. The second set doesn't have a Door 2 passenger door and all three are leased. HA has 12 fewer seats n the older version aircraft with a Door 2 passenger door.
Conversion of N588/590/592 looks pretty straight forward with similar facilities in the back of the aircraft. There would be some work at the center of the aircraft where lavs and galleys would be removed to equal a Polaris 2 class bird.

764:
N76054 entered MCO 2779/5Jan, probably minor mod - second 764 through MCO recently

772:
N78005 sked to exit HKG 2820/8Jan

UAX
CR2:
N415AW (2001 build) has entered UAX service with Air Wisconsin
N460AW (2003 build) has entered UAW service with Air Wisconsin

E45:
United re-registered several aircraft that had been parked in the desert.
N15910 has re-entered service with ExpressJet (UAX)
N16911 has re-entered service with ExpressJet (UAX)
There are 5 other frames so far in preparation to re-enter service.

UAX:
Q200: Entire fleet retired from UAX service yesterday. Last 9 of a historic total of 16 completed service, meaning UA is now an all jet airline domestically.

Is there a list that shows which plane has the new domestic first class seat?

Go to the United Fleet site and click the second link from the left near top.
https://sites.google.com/site/unitedfleetsite/

789
N29971 took C1 test hop flight at CHS today.

dc10lover wrote:

According to Ontario, California airport, United Airlines will be serving the Ontario, California - San Francisco market, not United Express.

Unfortunately, that's not accurate.

UA has operated SFO-ONT with up to 9 CRJ-200s on a daily basis. Beginning this month, they've added two mainline flights (those a/c RON and return to SF the next am) while reducing flight options from 9 to 6. Later this month, that drops down to 4 daily flights (1 mainline, 3 CRJ-200s). That schedule remains through April, then 2 more flights are added (back up to 6 daily w/ only 1 mainline). Looking out six months, there isn't any obvious change to this schedule.

Last year, UA announced that it would be deploying mainline aircraft into several markets, this includes BUR, PSP, FAT, RNO. In nearly every instance, these a/c are evening arrivals that RON and return the next morning. UA's own announcement made it sound like the entire market was going mainline, which was repeated by flyer blogs and (in this case) airport marketing teams. That's obviously incorrect.

As an ONT commuter from SF, one downside to this schedule is that the early am departures are completely gone (earliest is now 8:30am), which makes a working commute impractical. In my case, I've shifted everything to SNA flying (can't complain, great airport, just much further away).

calpsafltskeds wrote:

789
N29971 took C1 test hop flight at CHS today.

So, these are the two frames needed for IAH>SYD. Cutting it close? Doesn't that start in 10 days?

fun2fly wrote:

calpsafltskeds wrote:

789
N29971 took C1 test hop flight at CHS today.

So, these are the two frames needed for IAH>SYD. Cutting it close? Doesn't that start in 10 days?

The WB fleet is far from fully-committed this month. There is enough slack in the 777/787 fleets to shake loose enough 789 frames to support IAH-SYD even without the two new birds coming on property.

fun2fly wrote:

calpsafltskeds wrote:

789
N29971 took C1 test hop flight at CHS today.

So, these are the two frames needed for IAH>SYD. Cutting it close? Doesn't that start in 10 days?

971 is a sUA 789 and the IAH-SYD route is flown by sCO flight attendants. As mentioned, there's a bit of slack in the 789 fleet right now.

Where was it said the ps 752s weren’t getting scimitars? They’re staying indefinitely now and getting the NGS mod.