More details from Cathay Pacific cargo:
Exports running 9x imports in Portland.

Feb 2018 PDX-HKG

Out 731,454
In 82,156
(lbs)

More details from Cathay Pacific cargo:
Exports running 9x imports in Portland.

Feb 2018 PDX-HKG

Out 731,454
In 82,156
(lbs)

Does the new construction of Concourse E and the costs associated with that being passed to airlines to a degree have any impact on their decision to add service to/from Portland? The fees at SMF have been quite high for some time and as far as I understand it, is part of the reason airlines have been weary to add routes from there. Perhaps that's why PDX is seeing a slow year?

OAG this week,

UA IAH-PDX SEP 3>2
UA ORD-PDX SEP 4>5
UA SFO-MFR SEP 4>5
UA SFO-RDM AUG 5>6 SEP 3>5

PDX - PSC (Pasco, Washington) is back.

Good to see someone (Spirit) is adding another PDX-LAS, starting in a couple weeks. Fares have been a bit hefty compared to the PDX-California conveyor belt.

I hope we don’t start hearing talk (again) about how Condor’s PDX-FRA and Delta’s PDX-LHR are serving business travelers. Non-daily, 5- or 6-month-a-year routes aren’t geared toward business traffic.

jbpdx wrote:

I hope we don’t start hearing talk (again) about how Condor’s PDX-FRA and Delta’s PDX-LHR are serving business travelers. Non-daily, 5- or 6-month-a-year routes aren’t geared toward business traffic.

They're definitely not tailored toward business travel. PDX-AMS serves that purpose

With AF restarting CDG-SEA, is there any realistic chance now for a DL/AF CDG-PDX anymore in the near future? I am not comparing PDX and SEA and I am just wondering about the reduced possibilities now more than in the past.

nmraja wrote:

With AF restarting CDG-SEA, is there any realistic chance now for a DL/AF CDG-PDX anymore in the near future? I am not comparing PDX and SEA and I am just wondering about the reduced possibilities now more than in the past.

Any PDX-CDG would likely be Norwegian. If Portland passengers want to realistically have any chance at gaining new nonstops to Europe, we’ll have to stop connecting in SEA and helping fill those planes. It wipes out any incentive for airlines to add at PDX. Better to connect in ORD, YYZ, BOS. Or support the nonstops we have.

jbpdx wrote:

Any PDX-CDG would likely be Norwegian. If Portland passengers want to realistically have any chance at gaining new nonstops to Europe, we’ll have to stop connecting in SEA and helping fill those planes. It wipes out any incentive for airlines to add at PDX. Better to connect in ORD, YYZ, BOS. Or support the nonstops we have.

I think so too, on the non stops to Europe. Last few times, I tried my best to fit in direct Portland flights. I had even changed the Date of journey on both directions to fit in a direct Portland-Europe-Portland for this summer's trip. I am still hoping for a DL/AF PDX-CDG flight, however less likely it seems now.

jbpdx wrote:

nmraja wrote:

With AF restarting CDG-SEA, is there any realistic chance now for a DL/AF CDG-PDX anymore in the near future? I am not comparing PDX and SEA and I am just wondering about the reduced possibilities now more than in the past.

Any PDX-CDG would likely be Norwegian. If Portland passengers want to realistically have any chance at gaining new nonstops to Europe, we’ll have to stop connecting in SEA and helping fill those planes. It wipes out any incentive for airlines to add at PDX. Better to connect in ORD, YYZ, BOS. Or support the nonstops we have.

Eh, given the AF/DL partnership, I think it's more likely to happen on Delta than Norwegian. From what I've heard, Norwegian wants to dive much deeper into the SEA market in the future (I think I read somewhere that they've mentioned possible adds such as CPH-SEA and OSL-SEA as well as CDG-SEA), so I don't think they'll be coming to PDX anytime soon. Also, as we know with F9/NK, PDX is not a very friendly place for low-cost airlines (although long-haul is a completely different ball-game).

If Delta were to start a CDG route from PDX, it would likely be a seasonal 3 or 4 weekly summer route with the 767-300ER.

Personally, I think PDX is way overdue for routes to PEK and PVG. Hainan to PEK with the 787-8 and Air China to PVG with the A330-200 (yes, I'm taking a hint from their SJC-PVG route).

Also a pax route to HKG on CX would be nice...

nmraja wrote:

With AF restarting CDG-SEA, is there any realistic chance now for a DL/AF CDG-PDX anymore in the near future? I am not comparing PDX and SEA and I am just wondering about the reduced possibilities now more than in the past.

It's definitely possible. I would have hoped that the situation played out similarly to DL/VX to LHR, in the fact that when VX started SEA-LHR, Delta started PDX-LHR.

FA9295 wrote:

nmraja wrote:

With AF restarting CDG-SEA, is there any realistic chance now for a DL/AF CDG-PDX anymore in the near future? I am not comparing PDX and SEA and I am just wondering about the reduced possibilities now more than in the past.

It's definitely possible. I would have hoped that the situation played out similarly to DL/VX to LHR, in the fact that when VX started SEA-LHR, Delta started PDX-LHR.

VS = Virgin Atlantic
VX = Former Virgin America

^^^^

Now that the DL/KE Joint Venture is close to being ratified and fully approved.... Asia HAS to get PDX-ICN service on Korean. Like, there is no way that doesn't happen. It has to, we're desperate.
Maybe Delta keeps PDX-NRT for the O/D, I've used it a bunch and it's a lovely flight. But, PDX-ICN has to be the next logical add here.


For Europe, yes, I really wish PDX-LHR was year round. I have to go to the UK more and more, and the non-stop is a lot easier than anything else.

But, I also know PDX-CDG on Delta provides a ton more connections for SkyTeam. So, I wouldn't be surprised to see that added (even seasonally) on Delta before PDX-LHR goes year round (since that is mostly O/D).

--
Anyway, I'm flying all the non-stops often, so, someone is making money off me! That said, a guy in my office went to Poland last week... and he drove to Seattle to catch the LH SEA-FRA flight...
That broke my heart a little bit. I tell everyone I know to utilize the non-stops!

I agree with BlatantEcho, the JV between DL & KE couldn't happen soon enough. I read that the agreement did in fact receive approval through regulatory groups in South Korea last week. I suppose time will tell as to what may or may not develop for PDX.

I can say that travel from PDX to SE Asia is not as easy as it once was. With DL scaling back at NRT many flights such as BKK have been eliminated. I'm booked on the PDX-NRT n/s in December but after my time in Tokyo will need to travel to Kuala Lumpur and then a bit of a holiday in Langkawi on the Andaman Sea. Maintaining my Sky Team loyalty and trying to get from Tokyo to KUL on a Sky Team carrier presents basically a whole day of travel challenges...either going to ICN via KE, TPE via China Airlines or Jakarta via Garuda. I would welcome some additional Asia adds from PDX and many travelers I have discussed these same issues with on flights from PDX seem to echo this sentiment.

I'd rather not hear the statement regarding the fact that SEA is just up the road and offers plenty of additional connection opportunities...yes I get that...and have done that on numerous occasions and frankly I avoid having to connect in SEA when I don't have to, particularly coming in to SEA off an international flight and clearing customs there.

bigfoot0503 wrote:

I agree with BlatantEcho, the JV between DL & KE couldn't happen soon enough. I read that the agreement did in fact receive approval through regulatory groups in South Korea last week. I suppose time will tell as to what may or may not develop for PDX.

I can say that travel from PDX to SE Asia is not as easy as it once was. With DL scaling back at NRT many flights such as BKK have been eliminated. I'm booked on the PDX-NRT n/s in December but after my time in Tokyo will need to travel to Kuala Lumpur and then a bit of a holiday in Langkawi on the Andaman Sea. Maintaining my Sky Team loyalty and trying to get from Tokyo to KUL on a Sky Team carrier presents basically a whole day of travel challenges...either going to ICN via KE, TPE via China Airlines or Jakarta via Garuda. I would welcome some additional Asia adds from PDX and many travelers I have discussed these same issues with on flights from PDX seem to echo this sentiment.

I'd rather not hear the statement regarding the fact that SEA is just up the road and offers plenty of additional connection opportunities...yes I get that...and have done that on numerous occasions and frankly I avoid having to connect in SEA when I don't have to, particularly coming in to SEA off an international flight and clearing customs there.

BlatantEcho wrote:

^^^^

Now that the DL/KE Joint Venture is close to being ratified and fully approved.... Asia HAS to get PDX-ICN service on Korean. Like, there is no way that doesn't happen. It has to, we're desperate.
Maybe Delta keeps PDX-NRT for the O/D, I've used it a bunch and it's a lovely flight. But, PDX-ICN has to be the next logical add here.


For Europe, yes, I really wish PDX-LHR was year round. I have to go to the UK more and more, and the non-stop is a lot easier than anything else.

But, I also know PDX-CDG on Delta provides a ton more connections for SkyTeam. So, I wouldn't be surprised to see that added (even seasonally) on Delta before PDX-LHR goes year round (since that is mostly O/D).

--
Anyway, I'm flying all the non-stops often, so, someone is making money off me! That said, a guy in my office went to Poland last week... and he drove to Seattle to catch the LH SEA-FRA flight...
That broke my heart a little bit. I tell everyone I know to utilize the non-stops!

Portland definitely needs year-round service to more than just AMS and NRT. Don't feed me this "connect in Seattle" crap either. I'm sick of hearing that and sick of being told to just "deal with it." Seattle's great, bigger, better, whatever. But it's an entirely different city that is not an easy 3 hour drive like it use to be. It absolutely drives me crazy that Portland is treated like it's 1987 still and everything to everywhere goes through Seattle. I need to get to London in the winter, and have to connect somewhere. That's absurd. Meanwhile, Austin has year-round LHR and LGW flights, we can't even get a year-round option to one of the most important European business centers.

You can call me a complainer or ungrateful all you want, but the fact of the matter is Portland is a respectable sized city with a strong business climate AND tourism sector but is overshadowed WAY too much by Seattle. I'm not suggesting PDX deserves the overcrowded terminals, or awful queues at customs like SEA does. That's the last thing I want. But to have 3 seasonal routes to Europe and only one year-round flight to AMS and NRT on old, tired 767's is really head scratching.

HNL wrote:

FA9295 wrote:

nmraja wrote:

With AF restarting CDG-SEA, is there any realistic chance now for a DL/AF CDG-PDX anymore in the near future? I am not comparing PDX and SEA and I am just wondering about the reduced possibilities now more than in the past.

It's definitely possible. I would have hoped that the situation played out similarly to DL/VX to LHR, in the fact that when VX started SEA-LHR, Delta started PDX-LHR.

VS = Virgin Atlantic
VX = Former Virgin America

yeah that's what I meant

Quoting Flyoregon...

‘You can call me a complainer or ungrateful all you want, but the fact of the matter is Portland is a respectable sized city with a strong business climate AND tourism sector but is overshadowed WAY too much by Seattle. I'm not suggesting PDX deserves the overcrowded terminals, or awful queues at customs like SEA does. That's the last thing I want. But to have 3 seasonal routes to Europe and only one year-round flight to AMS and NRT on old, tired 767's is really head scratching’

What is probably making it harder for PDX, is that with so many international flights/options out of SEA, PDX passengers are willing to pay less to connect via SEA, than pay for higher non-stop fares from PDX. A lot of people aren’t willing to pay for the convenience of the few non-stop international flights. The airlines don’t care, if they can lure PDX’ers to SEA without having to pay to set up shop here. That being said, that directly correlates to the up-front fares that those flights require to be sustainable. If PDX had enough 1st/biz passengers, airlines would jump all over it. I’m wondering what the PDX to SEA international leakage numbers are (how many PDX flyers choose to transit via SEA).

flyoregon wrote:

bigfoot0503 wrote:

I agree with BlatantEcho, the JV between DL & KE couldn't happen soon enough. I read that the agreement did in fact receive approval through regulatory groups in South Korea last week. I suppose time will tell as to what may or may not develop for PDX.

I can say that travel from PDX to SE Asia is not as easy as it once was. With DL scaling back at NRT many flights such as BKK have been eliminated. I'm booked on the PDX-NRT n/s in December but after my time in Tokyo will need to travel to Kuala Lumpur and then a bit of a holiday in Langkawi on the Andaman Sea. Maintaining my Sky Team loyalty and trying to get from Tokyo to KUL on a Sky Team carrier presents basically a whole day of travel challenges...either going to ICN via KE, TPE via China Airlines or Jakarta via Garuda. I would welcome some additional Asia adds from PDX and many travelers I have discussed these same issues with on flights from PDX seem to echo this sentiment.

I'd rather not hear the statement regarding the fact that SEA is just up the road and offers plenty of additional connection opportunities...yes I get that...and have done that on numerous occasions and frankly I avoid having to connect in SEA when I don't have to, particularly coming in to SEA off an international flight and clearing customs there.

BlatantEcho wrote:

^^^^

Now that the DL/KE Joint Venture is close to being ratified and fully approved.... Asia HAS to get PDX-ICN service on Korean. Like, there is no way that doesn't happen. It has to, we're desperate.
Maybe Delta keeps PDX-NRT for the O/D, I've used it a bunch and it's a lovely flight. But, PDX-ICN has to be the next logical add here.


For Europe, yes, I really wish PDX-LHR was year round. I have to go to the UK more and more, and the non-stop is a lot easier than anything else.

But, I also know PDX-CDG on Delta provides a ton more connections for SkyTeam. So, I wouldn't be surprised to see that added (even seasonally) on Delta before PDX-LHR goes year round (since that is mostly O/D).

--
Anyway, I'm flying all the non-stops often, so, someone is making money off me! That said, a guy in my office went to Poland last week... and he drove to Seattle to catch the LH SEA-FRA flight...
That broke my heart a little bit. I tell everyone I know to utilize the non-stops!

Portland definitely needs year-round service to more than just AMS and NRT. Don't feed me this "connect in Seattle" crap either. I'm sick of hearing that and sick of being told to just "deal with it." Seattle's great, bigger, better, whatever. But it's an entirely different city that is not an easy 3 hour drive like it use to be. It absolutely drives me crazy that Portland is treated like it's 1987 still and everything to everywhere goes through Seattle. I need to get to London in the winter, and have to connect somewhere. That's absurd. Meanwhile, Austin has year-round LHR and LGW flights, we can't even get a year-round option to one of the most important European business centers.

You can call me a complainer or ungrateful all you want, but the fact of the matter is Portland is a respectable sized city with a strong business climate AND tourism sector but is overshadowed WAY too much by Seattle. I'm not suggesting PDX deserves the overcrowded terminals, or awful queues at customs like SEA does. That's the last thing I want. But to have 3 seasonal routes to Europe and only one year-round flight to AMS and NRT on old, tired 767's is really head scratching.

Why are we still comparing pdx to Seattle? Totally different markets. Oranges to apples. Pdx aligns much more closely to st. Louis, Kansas city, Tampa, or San Diego........NOT Seattle. Geez luiz. Pdx is wayyy to seasonal to maintain multiple nonstops year round to Europe and Asia. The 2 flights they have, Amsterdam and Tokyo often aren't even daily in the winter....sometimes going to 5 or 6 weekly flights. Also, pdx isn't a strong business market, with only 1 large corporation sending employees all over the world, and that corporation, Nike, only employees about 10000 in Portland. Seattle has 4 major corporations employing at least 40000 people each, many of whom are traveling globally. Of course Seattle is gonna attract a crazy amount of international flights. Plus Seattle is a hub to 2 great airlines. Once airlines are regularly able to fill 1st class on international flights they may start to attract year round international nonstop. Also, tourism is much stronger in the Seattle area than compared to per. Also, Seattle is an easy airport to connect through, and only a 25 minute flight so why wouldn't we utilize it. I love pdx, but I connect through Seattle all the time because I love using delta or Alaska, and I can get almost anywhere in the world via an easy connection in almost 1 stop. In the meantime I'll also continue hoping that pdx continues to grow and is able to attract new nonstop services because it's a great airport to use.

jsta1981 wrote:

flyoregon wrote:

bigfoot0503 wrote:

I agree with BlatantEcho, the JV between DL & KE couldn't happen soon enough. I read that the agreement did in fact receive approval through regulatory groups in South Korea last week. I suppose time will tell as to what may or may not develop for PDX.

I can say that travel from PDX to SE Asia is not as easy as it once was. With DL scaling back at NRT many flights such as BKK have been eliminated. I'm booked on the PDX-NRT n/s in December but after my time in Tokyo will need to travel to Kuala Lumpur and then a bit of a holiday in Langkawi on the Andaman Sea. Maintaining my Sky Team loyalty and trying to get from Tokyo to KUL on a Sky Team carrier presents basically a whole day of travel challenges...either going to ICN via KE, TPE via China Airlines or Jakarta via Garuda. I would welcome some additional Asia adds from PDX and many travelers I have discussed these same issues with on flights from PDX seem to echo this sentiment.

I'd rather not hear the statement regarding the fact that SEA is just up the road and offers plenty of additional connection opportunities...yes I get that...and have done that on numerous occasions and frankly I avoid having to connect in SEA when I don't have to, particularly coming in to SEA off an international flight and clearing customs there.

BlatantEcho wrote:

^^^^

Now that the DL/KE Joint Venture is close to being ratified and fully approved.... Asia HAS to get PDX-ICN service on Korean. Like, there is no way that doesn't happen. It has to, we're desperate.
Maybe Delta keeps PDX-NRT for the O/D, I've used it a bunch and it's a lovely flight. But, PDX-ICN has to be the next logical add here.


For Europe, yes, I really wish PDX-LHR was year round. I have to go to the UK more and more, and the non-stop is a lot easier than anything else.

But, I also know PDX-CDG on Delta provides a ton more connections for SkyTeam. So, I wouldn't be surprised to see that added (even seasonally) on Delta before PDX-LHR goes year round (since that is mostly O/D).

--
Anyway, I'm flying all the non-stops often, so, someone is making money off me! That said, a guy in my office went to Poland last week... and he drove to Seattle to catch the LH SEA-FRA flight...
That broke my heart a little bit. I tell everyone I know to utilize the non-stops!

Portland definitely needs year-round service to more than just AMS and NRT. Don't feed me this "connect in Seattle" crap either. I'm sick of hearing that and sick of being told to just "deal with it." Seattle's great, bigger, better, whatever. But it's an entirely different city that is not an easy 3 hour drive like it use to be. It absolutely drives me crazy that Portland is treated like it's 1987 still and everything to everywhere goes through Seattle. I need to get to London in the winter, and have to connect somewhere. That's absurd. Meanwhile, Austin has year-round LHR and LGW flights, we can't even get a year-round option to one of the most important European business centers.

You can call me a complainer or ungrateful all you want, but the fact of the matter is Portland is a respectable sized city with a strong business climate AND tourism sector but is overshadowed WAY too much by Seattle. I'm not suggesting PDX deserves the overcrowded terminals, or awful queues at customs like SEA does. That's the last thing I want. But to have 3 seasonal routes to Europe and only one year-round flight to AMS and NRT on old, tired 767's is really head scratching.

Why are we still comparing pdx to Seattle? Totally different markets. Oranges to apples. Pdx aligns much more closely to st. Louis, Kansas city, Tampa, or San Diego........NOT Seattle. Geez luiz. Pdx is wayyy to seasonal to maintain multiple nonstops year round to Europe and Asia. The 2 flights they have, Amsterdam and Tokyo often aren't even daily in the winter....sometimes going to 5 or 6 weekly flights. Also, pdx isn't a strong business market, with only 1 large corporation sending employees all over the world, and that corporation, Nike, only employees about 10000 in Portland. Seattle has 4 major corporations employing at least 40000 people each, many of whom are traveling globally. Of course Seattle is gonna attract a crazy amount of international flights. Plus Seattle is a hub to 2 great airlines. Once airlines are regularly able to fill 1st class on international flights they may start to attract year round international nonstop. Also, tourism is much stronger in the Seattle area than compared to per. Also, Seattle is an easy airport to connect through, and only a 25 minute flight so why wouldn't we utilize it. I love pdx, but I connect through Seattle all the time because I love using delta or Alaska, and I can get almost anywhere in the world via an easy connection in almost 1 stop. In the meantime I'll also continue hoping that pdx continues to grow and is able to attract new nonstop services because it's a great airport to use.

I didn't compare it to Seattle. From what I read, you're the one comparing it to Seattle every time you make a post. I simply said that connecting in Seattle is a hassle and not conducive to efficient business travel. And if you go back and read what I wrote, I never said I want it to be Seattle. What I said was that for a city the size of Portland, it needs strong international service than it has.

Yes, tourism is strong in Seattle, but it's also very strong in Portland. To say differently is ignorant. Seattle is an overcrowded hassle to connect through on international flights.

And you're right, Nike is the only company in Portland sending people all over the world. Intel, with 19,300 employees, Adidas, Daimler, and a multitude of other companies keep their travels local– never internationally....

Portland has a stronger business market that you think.

flyoregon wrote:

jsta1981 wrote:

flyoregon wrote:

Portland definitely needs year-round service to more than just AMS and NRT. Don't feed me this "connect in Seattle" crap either. I'm sick of hearing that and sick of being told to just "deal with it." Seattle's great, bigger, better, whatever. But it's an entirely different city that is not an easy 3 hour drive like it use to be. It absolutely drives me crazy that Portland is treated like it's 1987 still and everything to everywhere goes through Seattle. I need to get to London in the winter, and have to connect somewhere. That's absurd. Meanwhile, Austin has year-round LHR and LGW flights, we can't even get a year-round option to one of the most important European business centers.

You can call me a complainer or ungrateful all you want, but the fact of the matter is Portland is a respectable sized city with a strong business climate AND tourism sector but is overshadowed WAY too much by Seattle. I'm not suggesting PDX deserves the overcrowded terminals, or awful queues at customs like SEA does. That's the last thing I want. But to have 3 seasonal routes to Europe and only one year-round flight to AMS and NRT on old, tired 767's is really head scratching.

Why are we still comparing pdx to Seattle? Totally different markets. Oranges to apples. Pdx aligns much more closely to st. Louis, Kansas city, Tampa, or San Diego........NOT Seattle. Geez luiz. Pdx is wayyy to seasonal to maintain multiple nonstops year round to Europe and Asia. The 2 flights they have, Amsterdam and Tokyo often aren't even daily in the winter....sometimes going to 5 or 6 weekly flights. Also, pdx isn't a strong business market, with only 1 large corporation sending employees all over the world, and that corporation, Nike, only employees about 10000 in Portland. Seattle has 4 major corporations employing at least 40000 people each, many of whom are traveling globally. Of course Seattle is gonna attract a crazy amount of international flights. Plus Seattle is a hub to 2 great airlines. Once airlines are regularly able to fill 1st class on international flights they may start to attract year round international nonstop. Also, tourism is much stronger in the Seattle area than compared to per. Also, Seattle is an easy airport to connect through, and only a 25 minute flight so why wouldn't we utilize it. I love pdx, but I connect through Seattle all the time because I love using delta or Alaska, and I can get almost anywhere in the world via an easy connection in almost 1 stop. In the meantime I'll also continue hoping that pdx continues to grow and is able to attract new nonstop services because it's a great airport to use.

I didn't compare it to Seattle. From what I read, you're the one comparing it to Seattle every time you make a post. I simply said that connecting in Seattle is a hassle and not conducive to efficient business travel. And if you go back and read what I wrote, I never said I want it to be Seattle. What I said was that for a city the size of Portland, it needs strong international service than it has.

Yes, tourism is strong in Seattle, but it's also very strong in Portland. To say differently is ignorant. Seattle is an overcrowded hassle to connect through on international flights.

And you're right, Nike is the only company in Portland sending people all over the world. Intel, with 19,300 employees, Adidas, Daimler, and a multitude of other companies keep their travels local– never internationally....

Portland has a stronger business market that you think.

Portland does have a growing business community. It pales in comparison to Seattle. Portland also has a very strong seasonal tourism sector. It pales in comparison to Seattle. And yes Intel employs 19000 people, but they are more line staff than anything else. They aren't for the most part the back office headquarter management types that fill up the front of the big international flights. Yes Adidas and Freightliner employ around 1000 each, and they do travel some internationally. Seattle has mega corps headquarterz like Amazon and Microsoft, and Starbucks with 50000 heavy hitters traveling globally. Seatac is a very easy connection, we're very lucky here in PDX to have it be so close.
Compared to other similar sized cities, St. Louis, Kansas City, Raleigh Durham, Tampa,....pdx is doing great. Once the Portland business traffic can start filling up the front of the planes in the winter it'll start seeing more year round international flights. Until then, we have a great option of getting almost anywhere in the world via an easy one stop connection in Seattle.

jsta1981...so I'm clear, as it appears once again we are engaging in this misunderstood debate regarding PDX vs SEA. When you say why are "we" comparing PDX to SEA...who is "we"? My post was regarding my distaste for having to connect through SEA. No comparisons there.

I really must interject...with all due respect...the only posts that are making comparisons between the markets, and quite in-depth at that...are yours. I'm rather convinced that if you aren't already considering...that perhaps you may look into a position with the Greater Seattle Tourism & Visitors Bureau or perhaps the Seattle Chamber of Commerce...jsta saying!

I read through lots of city threads on here and I don’t see the same friction when people advocate for their cities’ potential nonstop routes as I do toward Portland, especially with regard to Seattle. I don’t hear people making arguments for why Nashville pax should get over it and just fly out of ATL because it’s only 214 mi and Nashville doesn’t have the corporate offices or population that Atlanta has.
Fact is PDX has evolved into a major US airport. It is getting shorted nonstops on several domestic routes, and could support a few more international. Even when the numbers are there, the commitment from airlines isn’t. No one ever advocated for PDX being another SEA. When someone suggests year round nonstop to FRA (e.g. Daimler North America and Adidas North America are both divisions of German companies based in Portland) or adding non-daily seasonal CDG or HKG we get bombarded with excuses why it will never happen. Realistically, I don’t ever see PDX-DUB happening or PDX-SYD or PDX-CMH or PDX-PVD. I do expect PDX-South Florida and PDX-BNA and year round PDX-IAD/BWI/PHL/YYZ.
Meanwhile, part of the problem with the nonstop deficiency lies with the Port of Portland not offering any incentives to get things moving.

To me, connecting via SEA is a last resort and I typically avoid doing so. SEA does have a number of options to fly, but it's not a pleasant experience. If I have to connect internationally, I much prefer Vancouver over Seattle. I honestly don't view SEA as an option that I would drive up to if I needed to catch a flight. Also, I think the comparison with PDX to places like St. Louis, Kansas City, etc. is flawed. The population of St. Louis, and to a lesser extent, Kansas City is stagnant. St. Louis, like many of the midwestern cities, enjoyed its peak status/economic success in the '50s, '60s. Those cities are trying to reinvent themselves and attract residents. The Portland metro is growing rapidly and the expectation is that more international options will follow as the economy also continues to grow.

bigfoot0503 wrote:

jsta1981...so I'm clear, as it appears once again we are engaging in this misunderstood debate regarding PDX vs SEA. When you say why are "we" comparing PDX to SEA...who is "we"? My post was regarding my distaste for having to connect through SEA. No comparisons there.

I really must interject...with all due respect...the only posts that are making comparisons between the markets, and quite in-depth at that...are yours. I'm rather convinced that if you aren't already considering...that perhaps you may look into a position with the Greater Seattle Tourism & Visitors Bureau or perhaps the Seattle Chamber of Commerce...jsta saying!

Eww...no thanks. I actually can't stand the city of Seattle. It's too big, traffic is horrible, and the food and beer isn't nearly as good as Portland. I love having it's airport nearby though, sure beats having to connect in San Francisco or Los Angeles. I'm a Portlander...love most everything about Portland except it's politics and homeless issue.
Now if you're saying there's an opening on Stanley, Idaho's tourism board or maybe even Bellingham tourism board then you might be able to tempt me.

jbpdx wrote:

I read through lots of city threads on here and I don’t see the same friction when people advocate for their cities’ potential nonstop routes as I do toward Portland, especially with regard to Seattle. I don’t hear people making arguments for why Nashville pax should get over it and just fly out of ATL because it’s only 214 mi and Nashville doesn’t have the corporate offices or population that Atlanta has.
Fact is PDX has evolved into a major US airport. It is getting shorted nonstops on several domestic routes, and could support a few more international. Even when the numbers are there, the commitment from airlines isn’t. No one ever advocated for PDX being another SEA. When someone suggests year round nonstop to FRA (e.g. Daimler North America and Adidas North America are both divisions of German companies based in Portland) or adding non-daily seasonal CDG or HKG we get bombarded with excuses why it will never happen. Realistically, I don’t ever see PDX-DUB happening or PDX-SYD or PDX-CMH or PDX-PVD. I do expect PDX-South Florida and PDX-BNA and year round PDX-IAD/BWI/PHL/YYZ.
Meanwhile, part of the problem with the nonstop deficiency lies with the Port of Portland not offering any incentives to get things moving.

One would think Philadelphia, Baltimore, Dulles could work year round. South Florida yield may be too low. Toronto is too seasonal. Maybe Nashville or New Orleans if a smaller jet could make it. More international once PDX can fill the front of the planes in the fall and winter.

jsta1981 wrote:

One would think Philadelphia, Baltimore, Dulles could work year round. South Florida yield may be too low. Toronto is too seasonal. Maybe Nashville or New Orleans if a smaller jet could make it. More international once PDX can fill the front of the planes in the fall and winter.

Agreed. Also, I would have expected jetBlue to have BOS-PDX operating year-round flights by now. Although, since Alaska just made it's red-eye flight year-round (which used to be seasonal), they probably won't make that move anytime soon. A few weeks in the summer months, they even have two daily flights operating BOS-PDX, but still just the lone single JFK-PDX route, which is year-round.

On a separate note, I would like to see their "Mint" service come to PDX, but as you stated earlier, PDX has more seasonal vacationers traveling through the airport rather than business clienteles, which is probably why SEA has Mint service and PDX does not. Although, I'm pretty sure that SAN has Mint service to JFK and BOS, and that's also a very seasonal city.

jbpdx wrote:

I read through lots of city threads on here and I don’t see the same friction when people advocate for their cities’ potential nonstop routes as I do toward Portland, especially with regard to Seattle. I don’t hear people making arguments for why Nashville pax should get over it and just fly out of ATL because it’s only 214 mi and Nashville doesn’t have the corporate offices or population that Atlanta has.
Fact is PDX has evolved into a major US airport. It is getting shorted nonstops on several domestic routes, and could support a few more international. Even when the numbers are there, the commitment from airlines isn’t. No one ever advocated for PDX being another SEA. When someone suggests year round nonstop to FRA (e.g. Daimler North America and Adidas North America are both divisions of German companies based in Portland) or adding non-daily seasonal CDG or HKG we get bombarded with excuses why it will never happen. Realistically, I don’t ever see PDX-DUB happening or PDX-SYD or PDX-CMH or PDX-PVD. I do expect PDX-South Florida and PDX-BNA and year round PDX-IAD/BWI/PHL/YYZ.
Meanwhile, part of the problem with the nonstop deficiency lies with the Port of Portland not offering any incentives to get things moving.

Oddly enough, I think PDX-DUB could have at least some potential. Aer Lingus just recently partnered with Alaska, so they could probably get a decent connecting base through Alaska passengers at PDX. If anything at all, I would expect a 2x or 3x weekly summer seasonal route with the Airbus A330.

FA9295 wrote:

jbpdx wrote:

I read through lots of city threads on here and I don’t see the same friction when people advocate for their cities’ potential nonstop routes as I do toward Portland, especially with regard to Seattle. I don’t hear people making arguments for why Nashville pax should get over it and just fly out of ATL because it’s only 214 mi and Nashville doesn’t have the corporate offices or population that Atlanta has.
Fact is PDX has evolved into a major US airport. It is getting shorted nonstops on several domestic routes, and could support a few more international. Even when the numbers are there, the commitment from airlines isn’t. No one ever advocated for PDX being another SEA. When someone suggests year round nonstop to FRA (e.g. Daimler North America and Adidas North America are both divisions of German companies based in Portland) or adding non-daily seasonal CDG or HKG we get bombarded with excuses why it will never happen. Realistically, I don’t ever see PDX-DUB happening or PDX-SYD or PDX-CMH or PDX-PVD. I do expect PDX-South Florida and PDX-BNA and year round PDX-IAD/BWI/PHL/YYZ.
Meanwhile, part of the problem with the nonstop deficiency lies with the Port of Portland not offering any incentives to get things moving.

Oddly enough, I think PDX-DUB could have at least some potential. Aer Lingus just recently partnered with Alaska, so they could probably get a decent connecting base through Alaska passengers at PDX. If anything at all, I would expect a 2x or 3x weekly summer seasonal route with the Airbus A330.

I don’t think it’s a ridiculous notion to be honest. The A321neo barely doesn’t have the legs for it otherwise it would be perfect (I think 4,000nm and DUB-PDX is 4,043nm or so?). Doubtful, but could the Aer Lingus 757s make it?

My only concern is where the feed would come from with Aer Lingus flying out of LAX, SFO, And SEA. I personally think other AS partners need to show up in Portland first, but I’d love to see a flight to Dublin...that would make my life a lot easier; as if that matters at all.

FA9295 wrote:

jsta1981 wrote:

One would think Philadelphia, Baltimore, Dulles could work year round. South Florida yield may be too low. Toronto is too seasonal. Maybe Nashville or New Orleans if a smaller jet could make it. More international once PDX can fill the front of the planes in the fall and winter.

Agreed. Also, I would have expected jetBlue to have BOS-PDX operating year-round flights by now. Although, since Alaska just made it's red-eye flight year-round (which used to be seasonal), they probably won't make that move anytime soon. A few weeks in the summer months, they even have two daily flights operating BOS-PDX, but still just the lone single JFK-PDX route, which is year-round.

On a separate note, I would like to see their "Mint" service come to PDX, but as you stated earlier, PDX has more seasonal vacationers traveling through the airport rather than business clienteles, which is probably why SEA has Mint service and PDX does not. Although, I'm pretty sure that SAN has Mint service to JFK and BOS, and that's also a very seasonal city.

Haven’t seen anything on the seasonal AS PDX-BOS red-eye going year round. Catch me up, where did you see that?

FA9295 wrote:

jsta1981 wrote:

One would think Philadelphia, Baltimore, Dulles could work year round. South Florida yield may be too low. Toronto is too seasonal. Maybe Nashville or New Orleans if a smaller jet could make it. More international once PDX can fill the front of the planes in the fall and winter.

Agreed. Also, I would have expected jetBlue to have BOS-PDX operating year-round flights by now. Although, since Alaska just made it's red-eye flight year-round (which used to be seasonal), they probably won't make that move anytime soon. A few weeks in the summer months, they even have two daily flights operating BOS-PDX, but still just the lone single JFK-PDX route, which is year-round.

On a separate note, I would like to see their "Mint" service come to PDX, but as you stated earlier, PDX has more seasonal vacationers traveling through the airport rather than business clienteles, which is probably why SEA has Mint service and PDX does not. Although, I'm pretty sure that SAN has Mint service to JFK and BOS, and that's also a very seasonal city.

Haven’t seen anything on the seasonal AS PDX-BOS red-eye going year round. Catch me up, where did you see that? If so, when does it start?

Haven’t seen anything on the seasonal AS PDX-BOS red-eye going year round. Catch me up, where did you see that? If so, when does it start?[/quote]

It starts 02JUN and has no end date. AS's schedule is open for sale until 22FEB19 and it's available
through that date on their website.

I booked the PDX-BOS redeye for the first time ever in July. Flight times are really really good.
Even though I've moved to Delta (should hit Plat) I still use Alaska when they have the N/S options. That's a great flight time there and back.

--
That said, the Alaska PDX-JFK redeye flight times are horrible... just horrible. I know there are slots or whatever there, but, I'm trying it next month and it just sucks.
Leave PDX at 930pm, get into JFK at like 545am local... Why not move it back 90 minutes and give your passengers a fighting chance to have a nice day?
Oh, and after a meeting that day, I fly home the next morning. 1055am departure back at to PDX 220pm? Who makes this stuff up?

Cathay Pacific Cargo has two 747s scheduled in and out of PDX today.

FA9295 wrote:

It's definitely possible. I would have hoped that the situation played out similarly to DL/VX to LHR, in the fact that when VX started SEA-LHR, Delta started PDX-LHR.

When VS started, DL stopped it between SEA-LHR and started the season PDX-LHR if I am correct. In case of CDG, AF is coming back, that too with 777 while Delta retains it's flight. That's why I was asking a pessimistic question. I hope we get a seasonal 4x weekly from PDX to CDG while seeing some frequency increase for PDX-LHR.

BlatantEcho wrote:

For Europe, yes, I really wish PDX-LHR was year round. I have to go to the UK more and more, and the non-stop is a lot easier than anything else.

But, I also know PDX-CDG on Delta provides a ton more connections for SkyTeam. So, I wouldn't be surprised to see that added (even seasonally) on Delta before PDX-LHR goes year round (since that is mostly O/D).

--
Anyway, I'm flying all the non-stops often, so, someone is making money off me! That said, a guy in my office went to Poland last week... and he drove to Seattle to catch the LH SEA-FRA flight...
That broke my heart a little bit. I tell everyone I know to utilize the non-stops!

I too hope LHR gets year round service with additional frequencies. CDG definitely provides more Skyteam connections.

Thanks to DL/AF/KLM connection with 9W, there are still good connection options to India via LHR too, to some extent. I am going to use it in the summer.

Yes, guys in my office either take a connection flight and drive to/from SEA for their Europe/Asia flights. I have nothing against SEA, but have been drumming up the fact that we have direct flights and could use it. The only catch is that DL allows only one free check-in bag compared to EK in economy, which makes it appealing for travelers to India from PDX and SEA gets those people.

Delta’s fares PDX-LHR are high again this year. One way coach $2,900. DeltaOne $6,600. If you can go in May, $405-$465 coach. Price jumps on 1 June.

^^^
Booked that flight May 25-June 2 R/T for around $1200

Will happily pay extra to get to London in one shot.
Makes the entire journey so much simpler.
Can’t wait to use it more (especially if it goes year round!!)

Is DL still operating PDX-NRT daily? Any updates on them possibly discontinuing the route based on the DL-KE joint venture?

jbpdx wrote:

Delta’s fares PDX-LHR are high again this year. One way coach $2,900. DeltaOne $6,600. If you can go in May, $405-$465 coach. Price jumps on 1 June.

I booked for June travel to LHR onwards to India and the entire roundtrip is about $1700+ only.

Found very reasonable fares to LHR this summer. 714 in June, 991 in July, 719 in August. Don't know where the 2900 is coming from?

ooslc wrote:

Found very reasonable fares to LHR this summer. 714 in June, 991 in July, 719 in August. Don't know where the 2900 is coming from?

Delta website. Looking at Skyscanner you do get much cheaper fares booking on Virgin Atlantic (same Delta flight) thru Expedia etc. Buyer beware.

Unless if I missed something, there doesn't appear to be any changes for any Oregon airports in the latest OAG report. (PDX, RDM, EUG, MFR)

Hawaiian flew a 2nd A330 PDX-HNL today, HA1025.

jbpdx wrote:

Hawaiian flew a 2nd A330 PDX-HNL today, HA1025.

Spring break? SW Washington just started and Oregon ended. Busy weekend I'm sure at the airport!

Actually Hawaiian ran an extra section for two consecutive Saturday's (03-24-18 & 03-31-18)...lots of capacity this time of year from PDX to the Hawaiian islands (considering the seasonal DL Saturday n/s, AS flights & added HA flights).

N174UA wrote:

Is DL still operating PDX-NRT daily? Any updates on them possibly discontinuing the route based on the DL-KE joint venture?

I think it is 5x weekly right now. Hard to imagine it sticking around with the continued draw-down of NRT, but who knows.

doug_or wrote:

N174UA wrote:

Is DL still operating PDX-NRT daily? Any updates on them possibly discontinuing the route based on the DL-KE joint venture?

I think it is 5x weekly right now. Hard to imagine it sticking around with the continued draw-down of NRT, but who knows.

If DL drops the route, one of the two Japanese airlines will probably pick it up. The O&D market on this route is supposedly pretty high...

FA9295 wrote:

If DL drops the route, one of the two Japanese airlines will probably pick it up. The O&D market on this route is supposedly pretty high...

Anecdotally the route seems to do OK load-wise in my experience. Either Japanese carrier would probably do even better with the ability to offer at least connections in NRT, but aren't both ANA and JALs smaller wide bodies pretty premium heavy? Do any other US carriers operate LH flights with no feed on either end?