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Runway28L wrote:UA is going 2x daily PIT-SFO this summer according to the latest OAG.
I can't remember the route ever going more than 1x daily. Definitely a good sign.
GSP psgr wrote:Predictions for the year:
1. OneJet adds service to......Rochester and Austin.
2. Delta tries it's hand at PIT-LAX. Also makes a play to push American off the PIT-RDU route.
3. Southwest finally goes outside the box and adds something that's more point to point. Either Newark or Philadelphia.
4. Someone will announce a seasonal AUA flight.
Runway28L wrote:Since this is a new thread, I'll just carry over the latest information that was shared before the old thread closed:Runway28L wrote:UA is going 2x daily PIT-SFO this summer according to the latest OAG.
I can't remember the route ever going more than 1x daily. Definitely a good sign.
I also found the flight times for the 2nd daily through a random search on July 10th:
UA 2229 319 SFO 0900 PIT 1652
UA 2228 319 PIT 1735 SFO 1955
The daylight flight should definitely convince more travelers that dislike the existing red eye to take the nonstop option rather than connecting. I have family that has to travel out west for work several times a year and they have always avoided the red eye and chose to connect during the day since there was no nonstop option available.
Runway28L wrote:I'll add...
1. Norwegian or Aer Lingus announce plans to enter the Pittsburgh market.
2. WN starts PIT-SAN
3. DL announces RDU and brings back CVG
4. OneJet continues expansion
And my ultimate wild cards
5. Frontier exits MCO (and DEN) prompting JetBlue to start PIT-MCO as well as (hopefully) adding a 2nd daily PIT-FLL.
6. UA brings back PIT-LAX (doubt it'll be AA since they've been cutting back at LAX domestically and DL is tied up with projects at T2 and T3. UA is also rumored to want to re-solidify LAX).
If Pittsburgh does win HQ2, then I believe DL jumps on SEA and UA makes SFO year-round along with WN looking into more new routes.
Runway28L wrote:Here I go with the broken record of *if PIT were to win HQ2* but...
I have to imagine air cargo would get a big boost. If Prime Air were to come to PIT, would there be enough room for them or other carriers? The north side of the complex seems to get a bit crowded with 5X using their two spaces and FX using 3 out of their 4 spaces, especially for night ops. They're already having to expand the ramp to get QR's big 77F into there.
Runway28L wrote:Here I go with the broken record of *if PIT were to win HQ2* but...
I have to imagine air cargo would get a big boost. If Prime Air were to come to PIT, would there be enough room for them or other carriers? The north side of the complex seems to get a bit crowded with 5X using their two spaces and FX using 3 out of their 4 spaces, especially for night ops. They're already having to expand the ramp to get QR's big 77F into there.
Jshank83 wrote:Runway28L wrote:Here I go with the broken record of *if PIT were to win HQ2* but...
I have to imagine air cargo would get a big boost. If Prime Air were to come to PIT, would there be enough room for them or other carriers? The north side of the complex seems to get a bit crowded with 5X using their two spaces and FX using 3 out of their 4 spaces, especially for night ops. They're already having to expand the ramp to get QR's big 77F into there.
Just to take the other side. Why would Amazon coming to PIT make any difference with cargo? They are bringing a headquarters not a distribution hub. Amazon already has CVG just down the road so I don't see why the location of the headquarters will have much of an impact on their shipping. They still will be shipping to the same places they always have been.
cvgComair wrote:Just like Jshank83 said, I don't think the cargo demand goes with the HQ2 and vice-versa. I don't think the Amazon Air hub will affect CVG's chance in the HQ2 bid (which is no chance). Amazon is going to have offices in Cincinnati for Amazon Air, but that is all we will ever see. Likewise, I don't think Amazon picking PIT as HQ2 would automatically bring major cargo ops to PIT, too much overlap with CVG. I have no doubt PIT will be added as a spoke once the fleet starts expanding beyond its current size, but that is not going to happen for at least another 1-3 years.
Runway28L wrote:Jshank83 wrote:Runway28L wrote:Here I go with the broken record of *if PIT were to win HQ2* but...
I have to imagine air cargo would get a big boost. If Prime Air were to come to PIT, would there be enough room for them or other carriers? The north side of the complex seems to get a bit crowded with 5X using their two spaces and FX using 3 out of their 4 spaces, especially for night ops. They're already having to expand the ramp to get QR's big 77F into there.
Just to take the other side. Why would Amazon coming to PIT make any difference with cargo? They are bringing a headquarters not a distribution hub. Amazon already has CVG just down the road so I don't see why the location of the headquarters will have much of an impact on their shipping. They still will be shipping to the same places they always have been.cvgComair wrote:Just like Jshank83 said, I don't think the cargo demand goes with the HQ2 and vice-versa. I don't think the Amazon Air hub will affect CVG's chance in the HQ2 bid (which is no chance). Amazon is going to have offices in Cincinnati for Amazon Air, but that is all we will ever see. Likewise, I don't think Amazon picking PIT as HQ2 would automatically bring major cargo ops to PIT, too much overlap with CVG. I have no doubt PIT will be added as a spoke once the fleet starts expanding beyond its current size, but that is not going to happen for at least another 1-3 years.
I didn't mean to imply that Amazon would all of a sudden build a hub or shipping facility at PIT or even at the expense of CVG. I just tried to say that I wouldn't be surprised if Prime Air added probably 1-2 routes if HQ2 came to Pittsburgh and was wondering if there was enough space for them if they were to enter PIT. I too highly doubt anything major is gonna happen on the shipping/distribution front. It'll be more on the side of commercial air service. But like I said, it wouldn't surprise me to see Prime Air do something like PIT-CVG once they get enough 763s converted and decide it's viable.
GSP psgr wrote:It'll be interesting to see what Delta does at PIT; I think the last year may have taught them that ATL has gotten to be as big as it can be relative to the rest of their network. DTW and MSP aren't booming markets; SLC is growing, but isn't a huge market to start with, and they have definite facility constraints at LAX and SEA. I lean towards them giving LAX a whirl because they don't fly West of MSP right now, unlike American and United. It would broaden their network reach modestly. I always got the impression that CVG was a victim of the pilot crunch, which may have eased somewhat. There's much talk about them building an RDU scale operation at AUS this year, and I think PIT-AUS would be a bit long and thin at the moment.
Trying to predict what F9 and NK are going to do on a week to week basis is a lot of effort for not significant results.
As for Florida, it'd be nice to see a more stable operator to MCO to compliment WN such as B6. I wouldn't hold my breath on a second FLL frequency, though. More likely would be American finally going mainline on one of their frequencies to Miami.
WN is almost out of hubs they can serve from PIT; I think OAK/SFO is more likely than SAN for them, unless you're talking about a weekly frequency.
Jshank83 wrote:Runway28L wrote:Here I go with the broken record of *if PIT were to win HQ2* but...
I have to imagine air cargo would get a big boost. If Prime Air were to come to PIT, would there be enough room for them or other carriers? The north side of the complex seems to get a bit crowded with 5X using their two spaces and FX using 3 out of their 4 spaces, especially for night ops. They're already having to expand the ramp to get QR's big 77F into there.
Just to take the other side. Why would Amazon coming to PIT make any difference with cargo? They are bringing a headquarters not a distribution hub. Amazon already has CVG just down the road so I don't see why the location of the headquarters will have much of an impact on their shipping. They still will be shipping to the same places they always have been.
ConcourseZ wrote:If Amazon's HQ2 comes to Pittsburgh, then flight schedules and airlines will be in flux for some years as Amazon grows and associated companies set up operations in Pittsburgh to support Amazon.
Since DL started PIT - BOS service, I could see DL taking on the PIT - LAX, connecting two hubs and bypassing SLC for west coast flights. Another possibility would be to have PIT - SFO flights, tying in to the BOS flights. This could link SFO and BOS venture capital markets to the PIT tech community. The questions would be, should DL upgrade the PIT - BOS aircraft to mainline type? Would DL PIT - LAX/SFO also make PIT - CDG daily, year-round?
GSP psgr wrote:Funny you mention the C Series at OneJet, I was thinking the exact thing a few days ago. It would be a huge jump in capacity over the E135. But the E135 was a huge jump from the 7 seaters. Just a month ago I wouldn't have thought to hear about E135s at OneJet yet here we are. I think there could be plenty of markets out of PIT and the other focus cities that could work with a C Series. IMHO it would be more of a matter of additional financing, investors, an IPO, etc than a lack of markets in which to operate the C-Series.OneJet: Significant expansion of services; potential for even larger aircraft (C Series?) and service to major corporate destinations.
GSP psgr wrote:Now, if Pittsburgh were to land Amazon HQ2:
Alaska: Double daily to Seattle, daily to SFO
American: Resumption of LAX service. Potential for focus city, although less likely than Delta.
Delta: New service to SEA, LAX, CVG, RDU, SLC. Potential focus city like RDU.
Southwest: New service to Bay Area, Austin. Potential for STL style reliever hub to compliment BWI.
United: Year round double daily SFO, resumption of LAX.
OneJet: Significant expansion of services; potential for even larger aircraft (C Series?) and service to major corporate destinations. Potential for full blown hub about the size of Continental at Cleveland pre-merger. Opportunities as Alaska's East Coast alliance partner.
JetBlue: Resumption of JFK services, new MCO, double daily FLL
Spirit and Frontier : Who knows?
Teeeye81 wrote:Does anybody know what's up with OneJet? Did they shut down for the holidays? Haven't seen any scheduled flights for 2 weeks on flightaware.
knope2001 wrote:
I'd really like to see these guys be a little more professional with their PR. No, I don't expect a big press release on dropping a route of course -- few airlines do that. But you jerk around your customers when you leave them in the dark. Certainly business demand mostly evaporates between the holidays and it might be the right call to not fly this week. But there are definitely business travelers this week and next, and to leave them wondering what happened to OneJet is bad
knope2001 wrote:Teeeye81 wrote:Does anybody know what's up with OneJet? Did they shut down for the holidays? Haven't seen any scheduled flights for 2 weeks on flightaware.
They do shut down for the holidays. No flights the weeks starting 12/25 and 1/1. Unfortunately here in Milwaukee the flight display boards just show their normal weekday flights as Cancelled which looks bad. It would be better if they remove them or if the status could be "NO OP" which I've seen other airline use.
What is a little more puzzling is what is coming back and when.
Week of 1/8
All PIT markets restart except Cincinnati, Louisville, Richmond
Week of 1/15
PIT-SDF, MKE-CMH, MKE-OMA restart
Flights from PIT to Cincinnati and Richmond do not show available to book any time in the 2018. They look on the OneJet site similar to how discontinued Nashville does -- still in the dropdown box but any week you try says no flights available.
What's especially odd is that back in late November / early December I noticed Cincinnati was not able to be booked in January while other markets were, yet just a week or two ago the OAG thread showed all OneJet's routes being pushed out for Jan/Feb/Mar at the normal frequency including PIT-CVG.
I'd really like to see these guys be a little more professional with their PR. No, I don't expect a big press release on dropping a route of course -- few airlines do that. But you jerk around your customers when you leave them in the dark. Certainly business demand mostly evaporates between the holidays and it might be the right call to not fly this week. But there are definitely business travelers this week and next, and to leave them wondering what happened to OneJet is bad.
I get that OneJet didn't keep PIT-BNA because Southwest kills the fare level OneJet needs. But I definitely don't like seeing CVG and RIC likely on the chopping block. They didn't stand out as especially weak in traffic or fare to me so one wonders what's up.
ConcourseZ wrote:An Emerites A380 from Dubai landed at PIT this evening.
Cush wrote:
Here is a link on FlightAware: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAE ... /OMDB/KPIT
It looks like it was to IAD, tried to divert to NYC, and settled on PIT.
I hope someone got photos. Where did they park? Are we A380 capable?
flyPIT wrote:There goes our 2nd A380... to Dallas.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAE207Cush wrote:
Here is a link on FlightAware: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAE ... /OMDB/KPIT
It looks like it was to IAD, tried to divert to NYC, and settled on PIT.
I hope someone got photos. Where did they park? Are we A380 capable?
It was to JFK, tried to divert to IAD, then came here. Parked at Atlantic, someone posted a pic to PIT's FB page, yes on the physical capability but no on the adequate last minute customs staffing at this time of night.
So after a 15 hour flight, the passengers need to sit on the aircraft at PIT for 3 more hours then endure another 2+ hours to DFW where I can only presume that's where the airplane will be needed in revenue service next. All just because they can't deplane at PIT. What an absolute joke considering all the media today about how the airport can handle things like this, all the diversions get a gate, etc etc. Embarrassing.
Could you imagine being one of perhaps a couple of the 500 people whose final destination is Pittsburgh, to be told you can't get off so you are going to Dallas after a 3 hour sit here? Even for those going to NYC and not being able to get a hotel here and direct flight tomorrow. I'd be furious.
ncflyer wrote:As a taxpayer I would certainly hope there aren’t cbp professionals waiting around for the phone to ring once in an eon when an a380 lands in PIT. It’s an extraordinary circumstance and no business or entity can bear the cost of being prepared just in case the black swan floats by.
ncflyer wrote:As a taxpayer I would certainly hope there aren’t cbp professionals waiting around for the phone to ring once in an eon when an a380 lands in PIT. It’s an extraordinary circumstance and no business or entity can bear the cost of being prepared just in case the black swan floats by.
flyPIT wrote:Well at a minimum PIT needs to stop gloating that they can properly handle something like this when in fact they can't.
PITingres wrote:ncflyer wrote:As a taxpayer I would certainly hope there aren’t cbp professionals waiting around for the phone to ring once in an eon when an a380 lands in PIT. It’s an extraordinary circumstance and no business or entity can bear the cost of being prepared just in case the black swan floats by.
This storm was fast, but not entirely unexpected. If PIT and the CBP had an on-call agreement they could have had staff ready to come in. They don't even need on-call personnel all the time, just when there's a significant chance of storm diversions; even with this rapid storm I bet they would have had several hours notice to activate an on-call. I'm sure it could be funded out of diversion surcharges or some such thing. It's not like they need the CBP staff sitting in the FIS area waiting for something to happen.
You have to strike a balance. You don't throw lots of money at rare occurrences, but if you don't bother to make any arrangements at all, the business will go elsewhere. As it did.
flyPIT wrote:There goes our 2nd A380... to Dallas.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAE207Cush wrote:
Here is a link on FlightAware: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAE ... /OMDB/KPIT
It looks like it was to IAD, tried to divert to NYC, and settled on PIT.
I hope someone got photos. Where did they park? Are we A380 capable?
It was to JFK, tried to divert to IAD, then came here. Parked at Atlantic, someone posted a pic to PIT's FB page, yes on the physical capability but no on the adequate last minute customs staffing at this time of night.
So after a 15 hour flight, the passengers need to sit on the aircraft at PIT for 3 more hours then endure another 2+ hours to DFW where I can only presume that's where the airplane will be needed in revenue service next. All just because they can't deplane at PIT. What an absolute joke considering all the media today about how the airport can handle things like this, all the diversions get a gate, etc etc. Embarrassing.
Could you imagine being one of perhaps a couple of the 500 people whose final destination is Pittsburgh, to be told you can't get off so you are going to Dallas after a 3 hour sit here? Even for those going to NYC and not being able to get a hotel here and direct flight tomorrow. I'd be furious.
Flaps wrote:Would it be better that they stand in line for 3 hours going through customs and another two hours waiting to be dispatched to hotels? Im reasonably sure that sitting on a spacious, heated A380 with onboard service would be preferable to the alternative of standing in the PIT customs basement with five degree winds blowing through those leaky doors. Hotel accomodations would be being worked on during the diversion time so their overall wait would be significanlty more comfortable and it would be shorter overall. Plus they end up in an EK city that is prepared ot take care of them both inbound and outbound. The way it was handled was the right way to do it for all involved. Try to see the big picture here.
flyPIT wrote:Flaps wrote:Would it be better that they stand in line for 3 hours going through customs and another two hours waiting to be dispatched to hotels? Im reasonably sure that sitting on a spacious, heated A380 with onboard service would be preferable to the alternative of standing in the PIT customs basement with five degree winds blowing through those leaky doors. Hotel accomodations would be being worked on during the diversion time so their overall wait would be significanlty more comfortable and it would be shorter overall. Plus they end up in an EK city that is prepared ot take care of them both inbound and outbound. The way it was handled was the right way to do it for all involved. Try to see the big picture here.
Are you seriously suggesting that going to DFW after already sitting on that thing for 18 hours is more preferable than getting off much closer your your destination after *only* 15 hours? If the passengers had a say I think you'd be easily proven wrong. As far as booking a large amount of hotels on short notice its not the huge ordeal you make it out to be, and would need to be done regardless in DFW. I see the big picture just fine, thanks.
Flaps wrote:
Suit yourself but you are wrong . You are making a lot of assumptions with obviously little knowledge of the details that go into doing what you suggest. They would have been held up LONGER in PIT than they were by going to DFW. The conditions of theirr holding would be significantly less comfortable. EK would have an aircraft stuck in a non EK city. There are no agreements in place for handling EK pax at PIT. Who would you suggest that could do so?
You seem to have your panties in a wad because something didn't happen that you would like to have seen happen. We all would have liked to see that happen but it was not logistically possible with the circumstances at the time. It does suck but that is the reality of the situation. Armchair quarterback all you want but your pontifications don't change the reality. If the ACAA wants to handle A380 diversions then they need to forge some handling agreements that allow that to happen. If an operator on the field operated A380's there would be no issue. If EK operated at PIT the logistics would be more manageable. If EK wants to use PIT as an A380 alternate then they need to get something in place to allow it to happen. One or the other and its pretty easily workable. With neither, not so much.
Im not saying that's the way it should work. I am saying that's how it does work. I agree with you that these processes should be put in place and should have been done so a long time ago. The ACAA does not control operating agreements between handlers and airlines. They do provide assistance and are generally very good at such but it is ultimately the airlines responsibilty. EK shopped around the field. There were no takers. A pre-existing agreement would ensure this does not happen.
flyPIT wrote:Flaps wrote:
Suit yourself but you are wrong . You are making a lot of assumptions with obviously little knowledge of the details that go into doing what you suggest. They would have been held up LONGER in PIT than they were by going to DFW. The conditions of theirr holding would be significantly less comfortable. EK would have an aircraft stuck in a non EK city. There are no agreements in place for handling EK pax at PIT. Who would you suggest that could do so?
You seem to have your panties in a wad because something didn't happen that you would like to have seen happen. We all would have liked to see that happen but it was not logistically possible with the circumstances at the time. It does suck but that is the reality of the situation. Armchair quarterback all you want but your pontifications don't change the reality. If the ACAA wants to handle A380 diversions then they need to forge some handling agreements that allow that to happen. If an operator on the field operated A380's there would be no issue. If EK operated at PIT the logistics would be more manageable. If EK wants to use PIT as an A380 alternate then they need to get something in place to allow it to happen. One or the other and its pretty easily workable. With neither, not so much.
Im not saying that's the way it should work. I am saying that's how it does work. I agree with you that these processes should be put in place and should have been done so a long time ago. The ACAA does not control operating agreements between handlers and airlines. They do provide assistance and are generally very good at such but it is ultimately the airlines responsibilty. EK shopped around the field. There were no takers. A pre-existing agreement would ensure this does not happen.
Seems like you are the one making assumptions? A 3 hour wait to get through customs? 2 more hours to get transported to a hotel? Where on Earth are you coming up with these numbers? You honestly think sitting in an EK economy seat on an A380 for 20 hours is more comfortable?
The whole premise of this conversation is IF they were able to deplane with proper handling, vs. continuing to be on board for another 5 hours and ending up 1,400 miles from their destination. As far as I can tell that airplane is still at DFW. They could be on their way PIT-JFK by now after proper crew rest IF the flight could have been handled properly. But for some reason you insist going to DFW is somehow preferable but whatever.
flyPIT wrote:Looks like PIT-JHW will be getting the axe due to lack of EAS funding:
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/63056-us-dot-terminates-eas-subsidy-for-jamestown-ny